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I was mostly being tongue in cheek, but I think the Analog 4 or the Monomachine would be what I would want next if I go that route. Recently I've been enamored by the Vermona Perfourmer.
The Octatrack has been great. The learning curve was not as steep as expected, though it definitely helped watching some Youtube tutorials, in conjunction with reading the manual, because some their verbiage is hard to follow. Have had tons of fun sampling and destroying the PO-12.
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I'm selling the Poly Evolver Keyboard I recently bought. Not that it's not a great machine, but I got a really good deal on it, and bought it with money I had up until that point been saving for a Sub 37, and I told myself that I could always just sell it again. It was really difficult mentally for me to list it on Craigslist though. I'm raising money for the theater I bought and am renovating, and know that I can always get another one down the road.
...but I'll probably get a Pro 2 instead.
I was nobody. Nothing.
can someone explain to me this: in midi, the numerical relationship between cc74 (brightness) and the numbers of the cutoff knob? i'm still entering everything by hand on this qy and have no actual knob to turn.
i'm trying to figure it out through trial and error but it's been all error.
tempus est umbra in mente
CC74 is an arbitrary controller assignment... and unfortunately, a descriptor like "brightness" is a little vague. If it's referring to the cutoff frequency of a Low Pass Filter, then at 127 it would be fully open, as in the high frequencies have not been attenuated at all. If it's at 0, it's fully closed, meaning that depending on the slope and the range of the filter it would be cutting off at least all of the high end... and in most cases, everything else as well.Originally Posted by elevenism
"Brightness" is one of these musical words that doesn't have a direct clear meaning. It usually refers to the higher frequency content of a sound. The thing is, the CC may be assigned to adjust more than one parameter related to the high frequency content. It could be opening and closing the filter within a set limit range, as well as adjusting the resonance, or even doing something unexpected like adding reverb.
This is really just to suggest possibilities should your results be unexpected. But in general, CCs are are always limited to a range of 0 - 127. This is a limitation of the MIDI format. You can only adjust a parameter in divisions of 128ths. These can be assigned to more than one function, and the range of the sweep of the knob can be made to be limited, but no parameter can have a larger range than 128 clicks (except the pitch bend wheel, but anyway).
Chances are, value 127 = cutoff frequency fully open, and no frequencies attenuated. It's unfortunate that they're applying a term like "brightness," which is vague, like "dark" "buttery" "round" "tubby" "warm" are all kind of suggestive words without truly clear definitions.
Regarding that knob controller, I spoke to my friend, and now he wants to buy it off me... I went over to his place and he'd applied console tape to every parameter and had mapped it out as a control surface for a bunch of his sets, so he's kind of in deep with it I guess? Either way, I'm going to talk to him again today when I get off from work and ask him to be clear. If he really wants to buy it, I might have to sell it to him because i originally lent it to him with the option to buy it if he got attached.
Although I'm currently putting money aside to start building my modular rig (I'm going to start with some intellijel modules, probably their SH101 homage called the Atlantis) but... how much were you thinking of asking for the Evolver?
Last edited by Jinsai; 05-13-2015 at 11:54 AM.
I was nobody. Nothing.
Thanks @Jinsai , and it's all good if you have to sell the knob controller to your homeboy.
brightness is what they call CC74 on yamaha synths.
i noticed that when i have entered CC74 data and the pattern or whatever is running and i'm looking at the little picture of the "knob" that says cutoff in the voice edit mode, it's moving.
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A few points first: It's serial #176, and still uses encoders (which I prefer to the pots, to be honest):
1) It went nine years before the program change knob started to glitch out. Being kind of lazy, I just avoided the knob and used the number pad, but then the cutoff knob started to glitch, so I bought a bottle of DeoxIT and hit every single pot in that sucker, and it's as good as new. Of course, after I tweeted about that, @dsiSequential replied and said that if I'd asked, they would have sent me DeoxIT for free. Sometimes I forget that flagship products get flagship customer service.
2) I'm selling it with a Gator hardshell case that retails for $300+ new. It's pretty heavy duty, but that also means shipping would cost that much more. One of the latches is broken, and Gator will replace it for free, but it's got three other latches and that's been enough for me.
3) It comes with the original power supply and a manual for the Mono Evolver Keyboard, because of course DSI didn't have a PEK manual ready in time for shipping their first batch.
I've reluctantly listed it on Craigslist for $2000 even for the whole kit n' kaboodle, although it wasn't a very convincing ad (the title was literally "I do not want to sell my Poly Evolver Keyboard") and I didn't have any photos, although a fellow in Cleveland expressed interest.
For ETS I'd do $1800, which is a pretty good price for the combo, but if you don't need a hardshell case, you can probably wait around for someone to list one without and get a good deal without the hassle of shipping. You're in LA, right? It's probably the one Craigslist/Reverb market that beats out New York as far as music equipment listings go.
tempus est umbra in mente
it's a good deal, but it's too rich for my blood right now. I feel if I'm going to stick with buying more synth hardware, I need to start building my eurorack. I have five drum machines, 7 synths, and various random things that either fall into the FX or CV/MIDI manipulation box. It's time. This will be my first purchase.
I really need to dive into that modular I'm planning on building... I played with the modules, and holy shit.
Holy shit, but goodbye 700 dollars.
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Still trying to stay away from modular, but I recently watched I Dream of Wires and the lust is stronger than ever. I'm especially interested in the Buchla stuff. So damn expensive.
And as I say that, I just dropped $800 on a Ciat Lonbarde Sidrax Organ. Everything about the way it sounds and the way it's played appeals to me. Plus it'll be perfect food for the Octatrack. The gf is not happy
tempus est umbra in mente
In the modular world, Buchla stuff is like buying a Ferrari. There's a lot of more affordable modules out there that are amazing. I've been looking at a lot of the Intellijel stuffStill trying to stay away from modular, but I recently watched I Dream of Wires and the lust is stronger than ever. I'm especially interested in the Buchla stuff. So damn expensive.
And as I say that, I just dropped $800 on a Ciat Lonbarde Sidrax Organ. Everything about the way it sounds and the way it's played appeals to me. Plus it'll be perfect food for the Octatrack. The gf is not happy
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I was reading recently that the latest Buchla stuff is very poorly made and Don Buchla is suing the company. I need to do some more research on that. The Intellijel stuff looks and sounds great and is pretty decently priced for what you get. Would love to hear if you end up getting the Atlantis and your thoughts on it. I know I'll probably go down this rabbit hole sooner than later, hell even Roland is getting back into the modular stuff. Who woulda thought that a few years ago? I'm not interested in the Aira stuff, but I wonder if this means bigger companies getting back into this stuff.
The Euro stuff that really has me frothing at the mouth is the Mutable Instruments, Make Noise and Bastl stuff.
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Sidrax in action.
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people of ets:
I have about $1k-$2k to spend on some hardware. I don't do the modular thing for space reasons.
could be effects, could be instruments, could be anywhere in between -- what's lighting your fires lately?
[I already have a little phatty with some moogerfoogers, old electribes, an OP-1, and an octatrack. just an FYI. And yes I know that's more than enough to make awesome music with (and I do). I'm just poking my nose around for fun.]
Last edited by screwdriver; 06-22-2015 at 02:18 PM.
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Someone might have a better answer than I, but I think it depends what you are looking for. I know if I had 1k-2k free right now, I would be doing something with modular, though I don't even have the room for that either, heh (though I am gearing up to start something soon. Borrowing a Roland System 1m from a friend while they are out of town). I really like what I've heard from the Vermona Perfourmer. A Virus would be a solid option. I'm jonesing after more Ciat-Lonbarde stuff, but those seem a little hard to get into and not for everyone.
Throbbing Member
I am really happy with Roland System-1, so that would be one thing to get. :-)
And then, DSI Mopho? Hmm, seems I am starting to describe MY setup, sorry. :-)
And what about Ableton Push? Very nice (have it), but not usable without computer and Ableton Live.
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it's good to hear people describe their setup! good ideas, all.
I just don't feel the modular pull. It's really rare that I hear modular stuff that blows me away () and even that sounds like a great amount of farting noises and reverb. I intellectually appreciate the process of modular synths but I just don't see them working for me at the moment.
I think I've got pretty much all the synthesis I need -- I'd love a Prophet 12 or something but like, I've got so much in the box that I'm not sure I really would take advantage of something like that anyway, particularly as I'm not a great keyboard player.
Ableton Push just doesn't do it for me -- I use ableton, but I'm basically just in arrangement view the whole time.
I'm leaning towards getting a second Distressor so I can distress in stereo. Which isn't that exciting, but probably the most useful. I was really thinking about getting a Tempest, but after listening to some YouTube clips I was kind of underwhelmed.
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Yeah, while I appreciate the sonic sculpting capabilities of a modular synthesizer, I'm astonished at how bad modular demos still are. Dudes sitting in front of thousands and thousands of dollars worth of equipment, and all that's coming out of the speakers and into their camera's microphones (because god forbid you record line level output and dub it into your video) are aharmonic, unmelodic squirts and warbles that wouldn't even be suitable as a background layer. I get that it's a lot of fun mangling sounds into weird gibberish, but I need a little practicality.
Not being much of a keyboardist myself, I might recommend a Sub 37. There are hold buttons for the VCA, the VCF, and the arpeggiator/sequencer, so you can let it drone on while you sculpt - and being knob-per-function (basically) it's really, really great to use. Yes, there's so much you can do on a computer, but I've personally found that having a hands-on interface changes the way I make sounds and music.I think I've got pretty much all the synthesis I need -- I'd love a Prophet 12 or something but like, I've got so much in the box that I'm not sure I really would take advantage of something like that anyway, particularly as I'm not a great keyboard player.
If you've been poking around the synthy corners of the internet, you've probably seen me proclaiming the glory of the Tempest in a few of those corners. Maybe even pointing out my Soundcloud account, where the majority of the tracks feature the Tempest - to a degree that I feel pretty proud of, but am too biased to really tell you if that's good or bad. The trouble with the Tempest is that it's essentially six modular synthesizers in a performance oriented hardware device. Instead of patch cables, you get mod matrix with 8 slots, a large selection of sources and destinations. Couple this complexity with the difficulty in programming good analog percussion, the especially dull first set of preset sounds (the v1.4 presets are an order of magnitude better), and the absence of onboard effects, you're dealt a bunch of examples that are the equivalent of recording a violin in a dry room with a shitty bow & no rosin. Or worse.I'm leaning towards getting a second Distressor so I can distress in stereo. Which isn't that exciting, but probably the most useful. I was really thinking about getting a Tempest, but after listening to some YouTube clips I was kind of underwhelmed.
What would I get if I could spend a grand or two? Even though I have a Tempest and a Sub 37, I've been eyeing up a Pro 2. Effects-wise, I still want an OTO Biscuit. Strymon pedals are wonderful, particularly the Timeline and Blue Sky. If you don't have an analog delay, you should get one. Or two, for stereo. I recently picked up the Vox Double Deca, but only after that I saw the Ibanez echo shifter, and I think I'd trade the Double Deca for the Echo Shifter - and then do the mod adds a switch to make the Echo Shifter 100% wet.
Got a phaser yet? If not, get a Moogerfooger Phaser.
That's all I got.
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Yeah, I'm not huge on the farty sounds either. I really like stuff like this - - though I guess you don't need modular to make these kind of sounds. Though I'm also drawn towards modules like the Mutable Instruments Clouds which is a realtime granlular processor. I can't think of another piece of hardware that does what Clouds does in realtime that also doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
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truth
agreed completely on the hands on interface -- I've just been sort of relunctant about the Sub37 given that I've got the phatty -- I'd feel like I have to sell one to justify the other, and I'm lazy :-) might not be a bad idea though.
oh man I totally forgot about your Tempest hard-on -- I recall some of your soundcloud demos being pretty snazzy! I need to check what you've been up to.
your note about "complexity with the difficulty in programming good analog percussion" is a good reminder that ... I'm totally not that into analog percussion! :-p don't know why that didn't occur to me. Manipulated samples ftw, which if I recall correctly Tempest can't import samples (yet).
the Pro2 ... interesting, I had kind of set it to the side but that's not a bad thought.
OTO Biscuit would be SOLID, had forgotten about that. hadn't heard of echo shifter, checking it out
No phaser but do have this sweet EH Flanger Hoax pedal that is criminally underused so wondering if modulation effects are my thing. maybe should get the moogerfooger and give it a shot -- it would look nice sitting next to my ring mod and freqbox...
any thoughts on the phaser vs the cluster flux?
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yeah I mean, it is super cool no doubt -- but I'm not really sure I would prefer that to software I have which does the same. again, if I had a modular setup, that would be aces.
also thinking about the Eventide H9 MAX and just leaving that patched into my audio interface.
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You'll never be able to import samples into the Tempest, but what I find is that the 400+ samples that are already in there are, for the purposes of a drum machine, more than ample - particularly if you're going to be manipulating them. Having said that, the one thing I definitely feel the absence of in my setup is a dedicated sampler. I don't want an Octatrack, not because it's not powerful - it is - but I'm looking at more along the lines of an MPC1000 or an Electribe sampler.
From a sound design standpoint, it's pretty hard to top. It's pricey, but it does oh so much. And it plays well with everything!the Pro2 ... interesting, I had kind of set it to the side but that's not a bad thought.
I wish I could forget. I don't need one. I keep telling myself this. I don't need one.OTO Biscuit would be SOLID, had forgotten about that.
There are a lot of BBD delays out now, with minor differences between them. What I like about the echo shifter is that the delay time is a slider rather than a knob. I like this because I love the sound of changing the delay time on BBD delays that have regenerative feedback.hadn't heard of echo shifter, checking it out
I like using the phaser for subtle, creamy modulation. The phaser can also take a mono input and output stereo - there's a secondary output on it that inverts the phase of the primary input, so you get wonderful swimmy stereo effects, which you might pick up on in this track.No phaser but do have this sweet EH Flanger Hoax pedal that is criminally underused so wondering if modulation effects are my thing. maybe should get the moogerfooger and give it a shot -- it would look nice sitting next to my ring mod and freqbox...
any thoughts on the phaser vs the cluster flux?
The Cluster Flux, on the other hand, makes wonderfully abrasive sounds. I'm on a self-imposed spending freeze for the next few months, or I'd have bought the one that showed up on the Philly Craigslist a few weeks back. I would use the ClusterFlux on, for want of a better term, solos. When I need a melodic line to tear and burn. It's a lot of sound for an effect, which IMHO should be used sparingly. Given the choice of the two, I think I'd take the phaser first. It can do weird things too.
tempus est umbra in mente
Have you considered getting a dedicated iPad as a sampler? THere's some insane apps for iOS which make the iPad an ideal device for sampling.
Take a look at apps like Borderlands, Earhoof, or Samplr. Once you really start messing with these it's kind of mind-blowing what next-level possibilities you can toy with, especially now that Musicmux and Midimux allow for seamless audio/midi communication with the computer via the standard lightning cable. Some of these apps run on a standard iPhone, but to really get a feel for the device as an instrument, the extra screen real-estate makes all the difference.
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the octatrack is powerful and insane and lovely in all the ways you read about, definitely my favorite piece of gear I've acquired in forever but.. it's sort of a monster and I wouldn't even really call it a sampler. there's times I think about getting one of the new electribes for something more immediate. hmmm MPC...
this post is making me wish the moogerfooger delay had not been discontinued, would be all over that
nice track! (Jupiter Windows). definitely hearing some far-reaching stereo...
I am liking the idea of making things stereo, but... that is going to further make me want to pick up that second distressor after all! :-)
On the Sub37, what has been your major use for it? basslines? lead lines? drones?
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So far, drones and basslines. Not long after I bought it, I uh... bought a theater. And I've been really busy with the theater, and haven't spent enough time with the Sub 37. Raked out of the Ashes very prominently features a patch I made on the Sub 37, which is just seven notes playing slowly while I slowly adjust the cutoff. There's a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle modulation on that patch (the not subtle bit is the sub oscillator turning on and off to the speed of a square wave LFO)
@Jinsai Regarding the use of an iPad as an instrument... I have an old iPhone. It's kind of a bear now. Even my iPhone 5s is starting to be annoying. I have an old computer that runs old software, but I ended up moving away from that old software because it became clunky to integrate into my setup. I've come to like these self-contained, hearty devices that I can just throw in a bag with the adapter and cables when I pick up and go to a conference or a show. I do like the idea of the iPad and the huge selection of apps for it. I even have Animoog for the iPad (bought it on sale), but I can't bring myself to pay up for an iPad, certainly not a new one, and old ones are still too inflated in price. Plus I'm back to looking at a large glowing screen. *shrug* It's a choice I'm making. It might be limiting, but I'm alright with that.
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I just bought an iPad mini 32gb (the first one) second hand for $170. I think that is cheaper than what I paid for my shitty Windows Phone that I'm still using right now. The apps are amazing, though I tend to not use them much when I'm working on music. I did just load a bunch of a Borderlands clouds of Volca Keys samples into my Volca Sample (that's a mouthful). I've mostly been using the iPad for filming videos. Got one of the Line 6 audio interfaces that connects through the lightning cable. Sounds great. I only wish I got one that had both audio and MIDI now.
Borrowing my friends' System-1m. I'm not really digging it much. I mean it sounds nice, but it's not for me. I did come up with a few cool patches, patching the mix out into the amp envelope in so it kind of plays itself. Going to spend more time with it this weekend.
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Remember Yamaha? Synth company I admired the most years ago and will never sell my SY-99, but now they have not created anything interesting in YEARS.
So, let us see what "Reface" will be...
https://yamahasynth.com/
Small "emulator" of some legacy synths? Like System-1?
tempus est umbra in mente
Last I heard Yamaha had moved into the V-drum world, and when it came to synths was primarily dedicated to digital pianos (on both the super high-end and budget side). I'm not sure what their place would be in the modern world of hardware synthesizers, which is becoming increasingly specialized as it has to adapt and compete with plug-in synths. There are very few larger companies still dabbling in that field, and the market is being mostly dominated by smaller batch-build indie developers.
I always liked Yamaha stuff though. The design of the DX7 is still legendary for good reason, and for the longest time I was really happy with my Yamaha digital piano. I replaced it with a Korg stage piano, and I'm still not sure I made the right choice there.
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Can I spoil it for you?
Yamaha accidentally left the playlist full of their teaser videos as unlisted (but not private) and the most evident information is that they're small, plastic keyboards. One of the preview videos had a subtitle under reface that said "CS DX CP YC" - so you're looking at subtractive, FM, piano, and organ keyboards, probably 37 mini keys. The speculation is that there's a single keyboard and you can pop in different faces, but that's pure speculation. So maybe we'll get Yamaha's answer to Roland's ACB with these things, but I wouldn't bet on this new CS-style synth having all the trimmings of the CS80 (polyphonic aftertouch, ribbon controller, etc.)
Less hypey is the Yamaha Montage, which I'm guessing is a new workstation, but could also be the "new technology that’s never been implemented before" that Richard Devine mentioned in a recent interview. That sounds interesting.
In other gear forums, I see a lot of people hoping for some kind of easy to use FM synthesizer. I feel like that's something that would have been developed in software first, with the design then getting ported into hardware. But the only FM softsynth I see praise for is FM8. The DX200 kinda sucked, I hear.
Regardless, it's an exciting time for sound design.
I'm still kinda hoping that Uli Behringer takes the guts of the Odyssey and the interface design of the Sub 37 and creates a modern Faux-Arp. Korg's replicas are cute, but not my thing. Except the MS20m. I still kinda want that, even though I know better.
I was nobody. Nothing.
substance, @Jinsai , @Leviathant , what i want more than anything is a new handheld qy.
i had a 22 for years and recently upgraded to a 70. i got into these things in the 90s because i read that seal and tricky both used them.
i love being able to make music in my bed, riding in the car, just about anywhere.
when i was younger, i would make 4-6 patterns for each song. Some of it was done sitting on my front porch, watching the rain, for example.
To perform, i would plug that little bad boy into this huge pa system i used to have, plug in my ovation and a mic, and just blow everyone's minds with the amount of music i was making at once.
The only problem i have with the qy is that you have to enter CC values by hand. And since i don't know a hell of a lot about general midi (as you guys know, i was shitfaced drunk for 10 years,) it's trial and error.
I've brought this up before, but since then i've had 2 massive seizures and forgotten a LOT.
So please forgive me asking again, but here's what i want to be able to do. I want a jog wheel or slider or knob to which i can assign a CC value and record CC changes in real time. You know, to create sweeps, wubs and wahs-all those types of things.
I doubt i will ever be playing my sequencer as a live instrument...this is strictly for composition to accompany guitar and vocals.
So i don't care if it's ONE fucking knob or slider.
Do you guys have any ideas?
I had wondered, if i found an old keyboard with a midi assignable knob, would i be able to create real time data that way?
here's a little musical horror story. a few years back, someone broke into my apartment in a bad area in dallas. They made off with my 4 track, my strat, a brand new fender amp, my ovation celebrity deluxe, and an old danelectro.
But what hurt the worst was my fucking qy, and not the machine itself.
I had patterns on there for EVERY SONG IN MY SET. It represented close to ten years of work that i can never get back.
Terrible bastards. Fucked up thing was i knew who stole it, but what was i gonna do? They were "friends." They sold coke and had guns all over the house-these guys weren't fucking around. They were real gangsters in one of the roughest parts of dallas in the days when it was vying with detroit for the dishonor of being the murder capital. I swear to god i had WATCHED one of these dudes shoot someone in the parking lot and not get in trouble.
I was young and dumb and shouldn't have been kicking it with them.
And the cops flat out didn't care. They busted them for the dope dealing, but i never saw my equipment again.
ANYWAY, if you guys can think of a solution to my little midi issue, i would be forever grateful.
tempus est umbra in mente
There's a lot of FM soft synths that get a lot of love, but the FM8 is especially regarded because it was basically an improved DX7 with an easier user interface. One of the biggest hurdles with the DX7 was trying to wrap your head around this new approach to sound design (operators etc) through obtuse menu-diving.
Operator in Ableton is a more simplified bare-bones approach to that sort of programming, some would say it has one of the best "hands on" approaches to classic FM Synthesis, and it gets a good deal of love (depending on who you're talking to). There was also Octopus, and I've heard good things about Sytrus, but I don't work on a PC so I don't know.
Then there's people who swear that the DX7 has a particular sound that the FM7/8 cannot touch... I guess it could come down to the electrical components, but I can't see how it could be THAT different, since the FM7 was designed to be basically a software clone.
@elevenism, outside of checking through thrift stores for a used keyboard with midi out, your best bet for a modern dedicated knob controller on a budget might be the Behringer BCR2000. That will still run you around 100 for a used model in good condition.
I was nobody. Nothing.
hell yeah, thanks @Jinsai .
i think you probably already told me that.
those seizures are strange. i'm remembering things slowly but surely.
i need to hustle these NIN condoms i bought from heavenlybearded to make some bread for toys.
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