Tool

[Jinsai]

Ive mentioned this earlier, but as someone who prints for a living, $150 is a good deal when you take into account time spent to actually produce the thing, cost of ink (ink is fucking expensive, for those who dont know,) and the cost of materials.

And yet, other bands somehow manage to do limited runs of their new music (which might require more time and effort than putting out a deluxe reissue), frequently printed across multiple LPs, with extra stuff thrown in, and they manage to sell it for a fraction of what this edition is being sold for. Maybe Tool uses the really expensive ink?

[gerbil]

I agree about how it's not a genre, but let's not be coy with what is inferred by the term "indie." If it clarifies things, we can avoid the word altogether, and instead I'll point out that A Perfect Circle is about as DIY and "underground" as Celine Dion. Framing them as a band that's struggling to get by without the assistance of a major label push is ludicrous, especially when that point is being offered as part of a justification for this gouging.

Holy shit, man. Chill the fuck out. A Perfect Circle is completely DIY at this point because the band is paying for everything out of pocket. Lighting, rigging, gear, roadies, sound guys, etc. At the end of the day, if they don't take in more than they put out, they've lost that money.

Now, APC doesn't have anything officially in the pipeline (though we know that most of their shows were recorded and filmed and Sean Beaven had even mixed audio for a live project and "By and Down" single) but Puscifer just released an EP and MayJay pays for that stuff out of pocket, too.

The quote above from Wikipedia sums it up perfectly. To do anything without a label, they need to fund themselves up front. Ashes Divide is (IIRC) without a label, as well, and we know Billy is still planning on releasing new Ashes material.

When Billy first formed AD, he pointedly noted that he was sticking with the label model when asked if he would go Indie like Puscifer. My guess is that Billy probably got burned by Island when they provides zero promotion and AD didn't do as well as assumed. Maybe Maynard convinced him to go his own route. I don't know.

Some of us have been around for all of this sort of thing before with these guys. Be it the Toolarmy presales or the wave of malcontents when Maynard dared to do APC back in the day.

My point is that the guys must have some sort of end goal.

[gerbil]

And yet, other bands somehow manage to do limited runs of their new music (which might require more time and effort than putting out a deluxe reissue), frequently printed across multiple LPs, with extra stuff thrown in, and they manage to sell it for a fraction of what this edition is being sold for. Maybe Tool uses the really expensive ink?

I think maybe you should go listen to those bands.

[Jinsai]

Nobody's implying that they aren't justified in turning a profit. The main reason why they might be avoiding signing up with a record label is because at this point in time they don't need one? Tool fans will rush out to buy the Puscifer albums, and that's perfectly great. They don't need a label to fund the tour or advertising... maybe because Maynard can easily fund that himself, and in the end the bands don't have to share profits with a label.

But here we have someone actually implying that this reissue of Opiate is a "good deal," and then we're just taking a turn into fantasy land. I don't know how much people think each one of these units is costing the band to press. Even if you take into account a remastering, the cost of cutting a new lacquer, and printing the packaging, it's probably costing them 10 dollars per unit. Maybe they'll have to share some of the cut with the guy who originally played bass on the album.

[theimage13]

Holy shit, man. Chill the fuck out. A Perfect Circle is completely DIY at this point because the band is paying for everything out of pocket. Lighting, rigging, gear, roadies, sound guys, etc. At the end of the day, if they don't take in more than they put out, they've lost that money.

I think you missed Jinsai's point entirely. Or maybe I missed it. But this is how I interpret his point...

Technically speaking, as you say, APC is a DIY group. HOWEVER, they have something that most DIY/indie artists don't: star power and the immediate backing of mainstream media. If Maynard took a shit and released it on CD, millions of people would know about it before the shit even cooled. If 99.9% of other DIY bands did that, their girlfriends and moms would know about it, and may about 50 other people. Having a record label isn't the most important thing in the world - getting your music to the masses is. And when you've got national press eager and willing to write about your singer, you're not exactly struggling to get that exposure.

[Harry Seaward]

Sean Beaven had even mixed audio for a live project and "By and Down" single)

FYI, Sean Beavan's most updated (official) list of accomplishments of whatever you want to call it also has him being credited for producing a Live In Red Rocks CD so we should be seeing that soon enough.

[cahernandez]

FYI, Sean Beavan's most updated (official) list of accomplishments of whatever you want to call it also has him being credited for producing a Live In Red Rocks CD so we should be seeing that soon enough.

That website has been like that for at least 1.5 years (if not 2)...so I doubt we're seeing an APC live album in the near future.

[Harry Seaward]

That website has been like that for at least 1.5 years (if not 2)...so I doubt we're seeing an APC live album in the near future.

From Sean's Twitter, back in August:

"I am mixing @aperfectcircle live at Red Rocks right now and i have to say @JeffFriedl is a frickin' machine!"

So that at least means the project isn't 'dead'.

[Harry Seaward]

Also, from an interview about two days ago...

Paolo: I’ve seen on your Discography that you mixed a forthcoming Live DVD from A Perfect Circle. Can you tell us something more about it?

Sean: The show was from a performance at Red Rocks in the pouring rain and it shows a band at the peak of performance. Just awesome and Maynard is on fire. I mixed the whole show from start to finish with no edits so you get to see the show just as performed. I have seen the final DVD and the images are beautiful.

[gerbil]

I think you missed Jinsai's point entirely. Or maybe I missed it. But this is how I interpret his point...

Technically speaking, as you say, APC is a DIY group. HOWEVER, they have something that most DIY/indie artists don't: star power and the immediate backing of mainstream media. If Maynard took a shit and released it on CD, millions of people would know about it before the shit even cooled. If 99.9% of other DIY bands did that, their girlfriends and moms would know about it, and may about 50 other people. Having a record label isn't the most important thing in the world - getting your music to the masses is. And when you've got national press eager and willing to write about your singer, you're not exactly struggling to get that exposure.

I understand his point. He's wrong, but I understand it.

Personally, I no longer care. He's whining like the band is personally slighting him. That the band that's taken almost 7 years to put out a record is just profit mongering and gouging their fans.

It's a one-time piece of nostalgia, personally crafted, personally designed from beginning to end, and signed by the band. It was never going to sell for pennies and some people just have to get over that.

[blugel]

any ideas on when this shindig will begin?

[ScreamingSlave]

already going I just bought my V1

[blugel]

and still $150....pass...

[AgentofChaos]

I figured I would saunter over and take a look see, I don't know, maybe find a cheaper option available, one that comes without say, the potential to find a seal of fucking xanthios. Or mostly to try and convince myself it was worth the money.... and I finally realized... that this shit is JUST the CD? Wow... I always just assumed for whatever reason it was a vinyl bundle that came WITH a cd. $150 bucks for a 6 song cd? That's straight looney tunes. If someone buys all 5 versions... I just, I don't know what to say except why don't you spend 13 dollars on the original still available cd, man?

[Jinsai]

wait, there's no vinyl record in the bundle? It's just a CD and a "novelty USB card?" Holy shit.

[Piko]

wait, there's no vinyl record in the bundle? It's just a CD and a "novelty USB card?" Holy shit.

Well, that just makes it all better. I was seriously thinking it was mostly a vinyl release that just so happened to cone with a CD. Some people must really have money to just throw away...

Is this even remastered?

[Clownboat]

People are actually buying this? Jesus

[seasonsinthesky]

Is this even remastered?

no. the audio is untouched.

[Piko]

I envy the people who buy it and more. I know there will be people who will buy a few. That's a lot of money. And I'm not even considering whether or not it's a ripoff.

[staleincense]

wait, there's no vinyl record in the bundle? It's just a CD and a "novelty USB card?" Holy shit.

I take back what I said a couple of pages ago about "possibly being tempted to buy it if I had the money".

[spiralout]

Reading this thread makes me feel stupid for caving.....I got version 5.

[buckaroo]

what is the dutch version of the sober single worth? just curious if it is a rarity and what would be acceptable for price.

[aggroculture]

I've been kicking myself for 20 years for not buying that Dutch Sober single when I had it in my hands, in Virgin Megastore in London that one time, in 1993/4 whenever it was...

EDIT: On Ebay it starts at $35.00

[uroboros]

cd??? srsly?! the lack o' vnyl bewilders me. I hope they at least did a ritual jerk-off session and inked the 'graphs in jizz. I'd pay 150 for that. probably.

all you. see and. hear on. tv. is a. product. waiting. for your. fatass. dirty. dollar. shut up...

[Ryan]

Got Opiate #5.

[RJK]

Looks like all 5k copies are sold out.

[Harry Seaward]

Reading this thread makes me feel stupid for caving.....I got version 5.

Got Opiate #5.

Number five bros!

But this is the Tool thread, we shouldn't talk about this here because somebody might get offended.

[october_midnight]

Thought this was funny...

AVC: Do you feel out of touch with your audience?


MJK: For the most part, I have no idea who those people are—especially when we're traveling through Europe. And it's not all our fault; it's a whole series of events. [You play] heavy music, and your record company, which has never owned an album anything like what you're doing, immediately markets you to the obvious stinky kid with the dreadlocks and the B.O. and the urine on his shoes because he's been sleeping in his own filth in a festival in the middle of the rain. They basically market right to that guy. And then you realize the only people showing up to your shows are those primates—these weird, cretin people… Then, let's say you're at a coffee shop, and you've got a friend sitting next to you, and you've been reading some Noam Chomsky, or you're reading The Onion, and you look over and see a bunch of kids [who] look like they could be made of cheese, because there are flies everywhere. And you go, "Hey, you want to go where they're going?" and everybody goes, "Fuck no." And they're wearing Tool shirts. Why would you want to go there? Why would anybody other than those kids wanna go see Tool if that's our representative in that area? So it ends up being a no-win situation. Of course, that's a completely extreme example.

[staleincense]

Thought this was funny...

AVC: Do you feel out of touch with your audience?


MJK: For the most part, I have no idea who those people are—especially when we're traveling through Europe. And it's not all our fault; it's a whole series of events. [You play] heavy music, and your record company, which has never owned an album anything like what you're doing, immediately markets you to the obvious stinky kid with the dreadlocks and the B.O. and the urine on his shoes because he's been sleeping in his own filth in a festival in the middle of the rain. They basically market right to that guy. And then you realize the only people showing up to your shows are those primates—these weird, cretin people… Then, let's say you're at a coffee shop, and you've got a friend sitting next to you, and you've been reading some Noam Chomsky, or you're reading The Onion, and you look over and see a bunch of kids [who] look like they could be made of cheese, because there are flies everywhere. And you go, "Hey, you want to go where they're going?" and everybody goes, "Fuck no." And they're wearing Tool shirts. Why would you want to go there? Why would anybody other than those kids wanna go see Tool if that's our representative in that area? So it ends up being a no-win situation. Of course, that's a completely extreme example.

Where was this from?

[october_midnight]

Interview with the A.V. Club back around the 10,000 Days era.