Tool

[Krazy]

The Fragile seemed like a longer “wait” for me- particularly if you factor in it had bigger shoes to fill as the follow up to TDS. Both TF an WT had about five and a half years prior to NIN’s last major release. Was a bit lukewarm to TF for awhile, was a grower, and was a bit disappointed in it at first since it wasn’t as “heavy” overall as TDS.

Not sure if there was a point in this post lol.

[renton44]

I was thinking about Chinese Democracy earlier in this discussion. I remember reading a review of that album that was basically like, "look, it's good, but it's not 17 years good." I think that's what we'll run into here. It'll be hard to receive the new Tool album as its own thing rather than trying to force it on a pedestal as the magical elixir we've been suffering without all these years and then inevitably being massively disappointed when it doesn't tear a fabric in the spacetime continuum and rain down jellybeans from the heavens.

I remember reading that review. I think it was in entertainment weekly or something. But the comparison is a good one. CD was a pretty solid record but it was doomed the minute it hit shelves because there was no way it could live up to 15+ years of hype. It could have been the second coming of the White Album and it would still be seen as a failure. The same will probably happen here. Case in point, Eat the Elephant... Man, that was NOT worth the wait (IMO) but it generally was a solid disc. Some good songs here and there, but not what I think some of us were expecting or wanted.

[gerbil]

The thing with Tool seems to me that they were on a regular schedule from Opiate-Ænima but they got sued then sued again and they’ve been involved in litigation ever since. If you take the announcement of the end of their last lawsuit to be the starting point instead of 10,000 Days it’s really not an abnormal amount of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Amaro]

Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Alex Grey isn't terrible. He is very terrible.

How so? Just curious.

[Krazy]

Re: the “lawsuit”. Can’t keep blaming that on lack of release. No way, other bands have been through serious shit and could still put out albums. That doesn’t stop one from writing so let’s not keep using that as an excuse.

Re: Alex Grey- personally love his work and think it fits in great with what Tool was trying to acheive. I’d like to see a someone different just for change sake but careful what you wish for. I thought the same with Rob and NIN, ended up with some really forgettable work on the EP’s.

[sinspots]

Re: the “lawsuit”. Can’t keep blaming that on lack of release. No way, other bands have been through serious shit and could still put out albums. That doesn’t stop one from writing so let’s not keep using that as an excuse.

I was thinking this same thing this evening. I even went and did some searches on PACER (federal court docs) to find out more about the lawsuit and why in the world it would prevent a new album if it was really a dispute about insurance coverage (rather than say, a continuing lawsuit about the right to use the Tool name). Turns out, I believe the lawsuit at issue was a state court case, so I didn't get very far.

On a side note, I did find a case filed by some crazy fan in 2007ish. The complaint was a page long (including the caption and signatures). It alleged that the band was essentially copying his likeness and he should be compensated or some nonsense like that. Tool retained a lawyer to move to dismiss it and the court eventually dismissed it (or more accurately, the members retained the lawyer--one issue argued was the band was not a legal entity and therefore could not be a defendant). For whatever reason (I didn't look at the docs relating to this part), the plaintiff tried but failed to properly serve Maynard with the lawsuit.

Anyways, yes people will be disappointed--perhaps even me, though I am trying my best to not expect the next Tool album as being something life changing for me. Though really I do feel that since I found Tool last summer/fall, the existing work really has been that way for me...

[gerbil]

Re: the “lawsuit”. Can’t keep blaming that on lack of release. No way, other bands have been through serious shit and could still put out albums. That doesn’t stop one from writing so let’s not keep using that as an excuse.

Re: Alex Grey- personally love his work and think it fits in great with what Tool was trying to acheive. I’d like to see a someone different just for change sake but careful what you wish for. I thought the same with Rob and NIN, ended up with some really forgettable work on the EP’s.

I don’t think it was just the lawsuit. I mean, obviously the band has families, there was a major divorce, children, and business ventures they launched.

There was a lot of frustration voiced my Adam (according to accounts at meet and greets and the clinics) that the label was setting financial barriers in the way of releases and funding projects. It sounds like the label would put forward money to fund recording and marketing but wasn’t giving the band many ways to pay back the costs and start making money off any releases.

There’s also the issue of digital releases. The label insisted they were entitled to 100% of money from digital sales and the band wasn’t having that. ESPECIALLY in light of the label giving them a hard time about recouping costs. That seems to have been settled over the last year.

From a business perspective, it wouldn’t make sense for the band to put together stuff they 1) couldn’t recoup costs on, 2) couldn’t provide a viable release for without giving up all the revenue, 3) putting out something that could be seized as an asset if they did lose some legal battle, and 4) would be the property of the label.

If the band had been given the option to split with the label #4 would have been a crucial point.

EDIT: tl;dr there was a lot of business stuff going on and in my head this is probably what was causing most of the problems


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jord]

Wasn't there something about a member being seriously ill with some kinda do or die health issue too?

[gerbil]

Wasn't there something about a member being seriously ill with some kinda do or die health issue too?

Oh, yeah. Holy shit how did I forget that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sinspots]

Lol, this stuff is crazy and nonstop: person says they are a metadata engineer who may have info about the album but provides no info. https://www.reddit.com/r/ToolBand/co...hazam_i_might/

I suppose it will be fun (or frustrating) to read all this crazy stuff over the next few months. Album/song name "leaks", etc. It actually is sort of fun in a way. Sort of like (but I guess not really) that NIN ARG speculation/investigation around the time of AV.

[fillow]

This reminds me, have any of pre-BW NIN snippets 'leaks' turned to be real?

[zecho]

This reminds me, have any of pre-BW NIN snippets 'leaks' turned to be real?

Yes, actually. There was a guy on reddit called eatyourloathing or something like that taken from the lyrics, and he actually did put up some actual clips. I think three.

[gerbil]

Right before 10,000 Days came out a guy PM’d me a scan of the liner notes on ToolNavy and said to keep it as proof that he had a copy of the album in advance when he posted publicly about it.

It was a legit scan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Krazy]

I remember back in 1996 before Panteras Southern Trendkill came out, a friend got word that a local record store (called Mainstream, located on 27th and Loomis Rd. if it matters to anyone) was selling it prior to the release date. We all got that shit like a week before everyone else that we knew of at the time- just went in there, asked for it, and the person grabbed one from behind the counter in a box.

That was a “leak” back in the mid 90’s lol.

[buckaroo]

I really hate to post this here, but it doesn't warrant it's own thread... the new Soen is really great. Comparisons have been made many times, but honestly I feel they are setting the bar for Tool at this point.

[pulse]

I really hate to post this here, but it doesn't warrant it's own thread... the new Soen is really great. Comparisons have been made many times, but honestly I feel they are setting the bar for Tool at this point.

That is Martin Lopez's band. He was formerly the drummer for Opeth from My Arms Your Hearse through Ghost Reveries albums, but sadly had to give up their gigs due to some serious health issues. Fortunately, he got over those issues, but not before Opeth had moved on with another amazing percussionist in Martin Axenrot. If you ever have a chance to listen to Ghost Reveries though, I highly recommend. Lopez's work on that album is masterful and really stands out.

[buckaroo]

That is Martin Lopez's band. He was formerly the drummer for Opeth from My Arms Your Hearse through Ghost Reveries albums, but sadly had to give up their gigs due to some serious health issues. Fortunately, he got over those issues, but not before Opeth had moved on with another amazing percussionist in Martin Axenrot. If you ever have a chance to listen to Ghost Reveries though, I highly recommend. Lopez's work on that album is masterful and really stands out.

I am actually a huge Opeth fan and that is how I was turned on to Soen when they released their first album Cognitive (which REALLY sounds like Tool). Martin is, of course, a great drummer but I feel like Axe is a much better fit. Loved his drumming on Watershed.

Anyhow, did anyone verify those leaked clips from the recent listening session?

[Lew]

If the new album isn't called Ermahgerd - Terl! - I'm not buying it.

please gods, let it be called "erhahgerd- terl!"
i want the album, the tshirt, the muhrg, the poster, and the poster child.
it will cuddle up to "it's cock like" on my imaginary shelf. there will be much laughing.

[Toadflax]

I really hate to post this here, but it doesn't warrant it's own thread... the new Soen is really great. Comparisons have been made many times, but honestly I feel they are setting the bar for Tool at this point.

Listening now. Definitely sounds like a band I could get into.

This brings up a question I had been meaning to ask on the forum, and the Tool thread seems like a good place to start.

Even though NIN is my favorite band, I've been coming to decide that my favorite style of music is probably prog metal with melodic vocalists, i.e. Tool, Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree, Caligula's Horse / Arcane, etc. I've looked around a bit for other bands that fit this bill, but I usually end up finding prog that isn't quite metal enough (i.e. classic prog) or something that's TOO metal (screaming, growling, whiny vocals, etc).

So, based on those criteria, any recommendations? Thanks!

[buckaroo]

Listening now. Definitely sounds like a band I could get into.

This brings up a question I had been meaning to ask on the forum, and the Tool thread seems like a good place to start.

Even though NIN is my favorite band, I've been coming to decide that my favorite style of music is probably prog metal with melodic vocalists, i.e. Tool, Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree, Caligula's Horse / Arcane, etc. I've looked around a bit for other bands that fit this bill, but I usually end up finding prog that isn't quite metal enough (i.e. classic prog) or something that's TOO metal (screaming, growling, whiny vocals, etc).

So, based on those criteria, any recommendations? Thanks!

Not really prog, but one of my all time favorite bands is Katatonia. I would recommend the The Fall of Hearts and then go backwards through their discography as it get less technical prior to the last few and then the older stuff is straight doom metal with death metal vocals.

[pulse]

Listening now. Definitely sounds like a band I could get into.

This brings up a question I had been meaning to ask on the forum, and the Tool thread seems like a good place to start.

Even though NIN is my favorite band, I've been coming to decide that my favorite style of music is probably prog metal with melodic vocalists, i.e. Tool, Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree, Caligula's Horse / Arcane, etc. I've looked around a bit for other bands that fit this bill, but I usually end up finding prog that isn't quite metal enough (i.e. classic prog) or something that's TOO metal (screaming, growling, whiny vocals, etc).

So, based on those criteria, any recommendations? Thanks!

I have experienced this same issue over 25 years of adulthood. I am definitely more into progressive music. Doesn't even necessarily have to be heavy or metal. There are plenty of synth, jam and experimental artists to explore I would define as progressive or pushing music forward. But clearly I have had issues finding a band that meets the requirements you describe, or at least merits on the bands already mentioned.

Tool, NIN, PT/SW and Opeth haved remained my big four favorite modern acts since the late 90s / early 00s regardless of how much I have tried to expand my palette or explore similar bands. A good example is Opeth, who have evolved their sound tremendously. I am still not a fan of growling vocals in most bands. It always comes off as cheesy to me. Yet, ironically, I adore Mikael Åkerfeldt's growling. I have no excuse or explanation beyond why. I suppose he is just so damn good at it beyond also being an excellent clean vocalist. It just works.

Then there is Tool and whiney vocals. I have difficulty listening to whiney angsty rock singers in general. Yet, though Maynard does this plenty enough, I adore it.

Then there is the difficult to categorize people like Steven Wilson and Trent Reznor, which I'm probably just too much of a homer fan of them at this point. Would probably suck up an album played entirely on kazoo by either. But with regards to Trent, obviously there is a finer line between industrial and electronica, and I do listen to a lot of heavy electronic and synthwave music besides. Really into Perturbator right now.

I also listen to jam bands or jammy instrumentalist like STS9, Umphrey's McGee or Buckethead.

Really, this post is becoming worthless drivel as I have not mentioned or suggested a single band on topic that is similar outside of which you are already familar.

Perhaps Devin Townsend? There, I really dig him and his live gigs and perhaps he meets the criteria.

[Toadflax]

Perturbator

Ooh, I could get into this.

Devin Townsend?

Yeah, I've checked him out a tiny bit in the past and made a note to check out more.

Thanks for the ramble! Definitely check out Arcane's album Known/Learned if you haven't. It's neck and neck with Porcupine Tree for me as far as "Tool substitutes" go.

P.S. Sorry if this is getting too off-topic, gang. I know there's a prog rock thread, but I wanted to ask Tool fans specifically.

[bobbie solo]

Devin Townsend is legit. That man has come up with some great, diverse stuff over the years. Strapping Young Lad is my favorite, and his heaviest. Just a blistering assault.

[Leviathant]

Yes, actually. There was a guy on reddit called eatyourloathing or something like that taken from the lyrics, and he actually did put up some actual clips. I think three.

As I recall it, none of the clips were legitimate until the recordings made during The Physical World event were put online. That dude kept insisting reeeeeeal hard that what he had was real, and I had it on very good authority that what he had was not.

[zecho]

As I recall it, none of the clips were legitimate until the recordings made during The Physical World event were put online. That dude kept insisting reeeeeeal hard that what he had was real, and I had it on very good authority that what he had was not.

I don't remember when it happened, but I still had the rips on my computer when the album came out and it matched. And this was the guy who's username was lyrics from the unreleased songs, so it was definitely not the guy you're thinking of. It may have come after the events, but it was definitely real.

[Krazy]

I’m gonna go grab a few new CD’s tomorrow- what’s the most recommended from Soen and DT/SYL discography? From the short previews I listen d to those two are the most I’d probably care for.

Need something new (to me) before I start banging my head against a concrete wall.

[Erneuert]

Let’s all just step back for a second...

Can you imagine how much the internet/YouTube is going to break as soon as the official title/tracklist/cover is revealed? We won’t be able to click a link without something appearing about it. I’m just mentally picturing it all happening now.

[BrokenSpiral]

Will the new album be released digitally? Could be a good move to release a new single digitally and the whole back catalog at the same time. Would probably see massive sales of the old stuff with the hype of the new single.

[theimage13]

Will the new album be released digitally? Could be a good move to release a new single digitally and the whole back catalog at the same time. Would probably see massive sales of the old stuff with the hype of the new single.

Have I missed something where suddenly they have the digital rights to their back catalog? Literally the sole reason it's not available is that they don't get a CENT from any digital movement, so they're saying "fuck off" to the label by only doing physical releases. Unless that contract has suddenly changed, I can't imagine them EVER doing a digital release of anything produced under those terms.

[gerbil]

Have I missed something where suddenly they have the digital rights to their back catalog? Literally the sole reason it's not available is that they don't get a CENT from any digital movement, so they're saying "fuck off" to the label by only doing physical releases. Unless that contract has suddenly changed, I can't imagine them EVER doing a digital release of anything produced under those terms.

It’s supposedly been resolved with plans to release the catalog digitally prior to the album release. All second hand. But it’s one of the things I think the band has been waiting to resolve before committing anything to tape.

(An exception being the Opiate re-recording. Many bands don’t own the rights to the actual recordings but the music is their own so they would be able to release it separately from the label.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk