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Thread: A Perfect Circle

  1. #2941
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    I had a great time seeing the band live again tonight. The band sounded great and seem to be gelling even more. I love the security stand down bit Maynard did during "Delicious", I figured he was going to duck out.

    Random tidbits:
    I would switch out "Peace Loving and Understand" with "Passive".
    Kind of bummed "the Outsider" and "Thinking of you" was not played.
    I wish I knew what tone settings Billy uses for "Judith".
    Saw Kelli Scott from Failure and told him I love the new album. He said "Thanks!".

    Overall great show.

  2. #2942
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    re:Peace Love in the setlist

    Looking at the setlists since 2017, it seems they're always playing either this song or What's Going On, so that Billy has at least one song to sing lead

  3. #2943
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    Had a blast last night and I'm seriously bummed I'm not catching more dates on this tour





    (shhh, don't tell the band I took these)






    and I even bought a bootleg t-shirt!




  4. #2944
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    I kind of like that scarf...anyone going to the AZ show Wednesday?

  5. #2945
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbil View Post
    In other news


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    https://www.theprp.com/2018/11/18/ne...dog-available/

  6. #2946
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    Fairly solid. Anyone end up ripping it?


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  7. #2947
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Had a blast last night and I'm seriously bummed I'm not catching more dates on this tour
    Great photos! I picked up the scarf!

  8. #2948
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Had a blast last night and I'm seriously bummed I'm not catching more dates on this tour
    Great photos! I picked up the scarf! I worry about next year a bit. What if Tool tours in the fall and NIN does too? Will make for interesting travel planning.

  9. #2949
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    I kind of like that scarf...anyone going to the AZ show Wednesday?
    I am.

  10. #2950
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    Excellent show in Anaheim. I feel like there was a rawness, energy, production, and mood I haven't seen from the band in a long time.

  11. #2951
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    Agreed, one of the my favorite APC shows in recent years honestly.

  12. #2952
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Had a blast last night and I'm seriously bummed I'm not catching more dates on this tour



    I've been wondering, I see you attend a lot of shows in California, but your profile says you are from Seattle. Did you move, or do you just travel down to CA for a shit ton for concerts?

    Also, glad to see the band are still gauging their fans with $60 shirts and $90 hoody's lol.... $90 for a hoody hahahaha... only Maynard could get away with that.
    Don't blame you for picking up bootleg t-shirts at that price.

    Sometimes the bootleg ones are better than the official ones too.

  13. #2953
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    ^Holy shit, that looks especially bad next to Tricky's $35 shirt (granted that's a short sleeve compared to the long sleeve prices, but still).

  14. #2954
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    I've been wondering, I see you attend a lot of shows in California, but your profile says you are from Seattle. Did you move, or do you just travel down to CA for a shit ton for concerts?

    Also, glad to see the band are still gauging their fans with $60 shirts and $90 hoody's lol.... $90 for a hoody hahahaha... only Maynard could get away with that.
    Don't blame you for picking up bootleg t-shirts at that price.

    Sometimes the bootleg ones are better than the official ones too.
    I mean, dude, I saw the Barenaked Ladies with Better Than Ezra and their prices were comparable. KT Tunstall, the other opener, was the only one selling significantly cheaper merch.


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  15. #2955
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbil View Post
    I mean, dude, I saw the Barenaked Ladies with Better Than Ezra and their prices were comparable. KT Tunstall, the other opener, was the only one selling significantly cheaper merch.


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    If you think those prices aren't exorbitantly inflated, you're crazy. Look at NIN shirts for example... $25 or $30 for a T. $50 for a Hoody? That's how merch SHOULD be priced. Maynard has always jacked up the price of his bands' merch, not just APC, TOOL and Puscifer are both crazily inflated as well.

    The standard for a concert T is usually $30-40 and Hoody's MAYBE $60-75 at most. $90 for a Hoody... no. That's a ripoff. APC Was charging $130 for the hoody here in Canada. No. Just no.

  16. #2956
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    If you think those prices aren't exorbitantly inflated, you're crazy. Look at NIN shirts for example... $25 or $30 for a T. $50 for a Hoody? That's how merch SHOULD be priced. Maynard has always jacked up the price of his bands' merch, not just APC, TOOL and Puscifer are both crazily inflated as well.

    The standard for a concert T is usually $30-40 and Hoody's MAYBE $60-75 at most. $90 for a Hoody... no. That's a ripoff. APC Was charging $130 for the hoody here in Canada. No. Just no.
    Yet, if they were priced at your "standard", you'd find them pop up on the secondary market inflated to the prices they are charging. Simple supply-demand here.

  17. #2957
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    Review and pics from the Anaheim show: https://music.mxdwn.com/2018/11/18/r...hotos-setlist/

  18. #2958
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotha52 View Post
    Yet, if they were priced at your "standard", you'd find them pop up on the secondary market inflated to the prices they are charging. Simple supply-demand here.
    That's really goofy reasoning. "Some of our fans will end up spending more money for this, so let's just make all of them do it."

  19. #2959
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotha52 View Post
    Yet, if they were priced at your "standard", you'd find them pop up on the secondary market inflated to the prices they are charging. Simple supply-demand here.
    No, instead of $90, they'll be asking for $120 on the " secondary market" now. It's all relative. If some poor soul couldn't afford the hoody at the show but in a couple months they can, they're going to be paying a premium price for it, regardless of how much it sold for originally.

  20. #2960
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    20% off their website for Black Friday. Not a very good deal but if you want merch go for it.

  21. #2961
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    Ok, just poppin in here to make a simple point and suggest re: merch prices. Merch sales, I believe are the only source of direct income to the band/crew when touring. So the reason the price of merch has gone up so much over the last several years could be a way of ensuring that everyone on the crew for these large arena tours and shit gets a decent wage for their work. Maybe I'm being too optimistic about this, but the price of touring has undoubtedly gone up, so it just makes sense that the merch is going up as well to keep putting food on plates and people in beds.

  22. #2962
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardp View Post
    Ok, just poppin in here to make a simple point and suggest re: merch prices. Merch sales, I believe are the only source of direct income to the band/crew when touring. So the reason the price of merch has gone up so much over the last several years could be a way of ensuring that everyone on the crew for these large arena tours and shit gets a decent wage for their work. Maybe I'm being too optimistic about this, but the price of touring has undoubtedly gone up, so it just makes sense that the merch is going up as well to keep putting food on plates and people in beds.
    Also - venues take a cut of merch sales. Sometimes that's quite a big cut.

  23. #2963
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfAtom View Post
    Also - venues take a cut of merch sales. Sometimes that's quite a big cut.
    This. It’s bullshit.

  24. #2964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    This. It’s bullshit.
    I remember seeing a quote from Los Campesinos about this...I think it was around 10% at least. It is horse shit.

  25. #2965
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    I'm not proud or excited about paying $90 for it, but I bought that hooded sweatshirt and it's very well made, thick, comfortable, and overall very nice. It was the only item I bought and I don't regret my purchase. Just sayin'.

  26. #2966
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfAtom View Post
    Also - venues take a cut of merch sales. Sometimes that's quite a big cut.
    Look, time for some roadie talk.

    Venues usually provide the staff for the merch, and generally speaking, the hardware for displays as well. So the venue is providing equipment, plus personnel to sort, count, set up, sell, and tear-down. You expect them to do that for free?

    And as someone astutely pointed out, concerts are expensive to put on. Every bus and truck has massive fuel bills. Every person on staff needs to eat four meals a day on show days (breakfast, lunch, dinner, after show). And they also need hotel rooms on days without shows. You've also got dozens, if not 100+, local staff who are hired just to set up and tear down - often at union rates, which are insanely high in many places. That's not even counting security and other building staff. Example: Madison Square Garden. Most bands LOSE money playing there, even if the show is sold out, because it costs so much money to put on a show there.

    And to wrap it all up, you have to think about scale. Larger bands can order larger quantities of merch and get pretty sizable discounts. Smaller bands often go with lower quality gear to save money. People seem to be thinking the APC stuff is higher quality, but they're not buying numbers like large stadium or arena pop artists are, so they're paying more for the stuff they're selling.

    Moral of the story: everyone's gotta make money if they want to be successful on tour. So if you're bitching about the stuff being overpriced because you think they're being greedy, chances are you're really just inadvertently saying "I don't care if you guys can afford to keep touring".

  27. #2967
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Look, time for some roadie talk.

    Venues usually provide the staff for the merch, and generally speaking, the hardware for displays as well. So the venue is providing equipment, plus personnel to sort, count, set up, sell, and tear-down. You expect them to do that for free?
    Yep - absolutely. I neglected to say this, the point was more that APC (or people seem to think Maynard, for some reason) aren't sitting down with a spreadsheet at the start of the tour to work out how to price gouge hoodies for a laugh. There are other factors.

    That said, I've done plenty of smaller shows where the venue provide nothing and still expect a cut of the merch money. And will do a stock count at the start and end of a show to work out how much. They have to do a count pre and post, because it's not their people selling the merch. It's just trickled down as 'expected' from bigger venues. That's where the recent talk on twitter, as mentioned Los Camp have been discussing this, has come from.

  28. #2968
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    I've been wondering, I see you attend a lot of shows in California, but your profile says you are from Seattle. Did you move, or do you just travel down to CA for a shit ton for concerts?
    I used to live in Seattle but moved back home when my mum had a heart attack at the end of 2015. I hate it here (SoCal) and I guess I've just been too lazy to update my location. That I hope to some day make my way back to the PNW


    *EDIT*

    I'm working on editing the audio from the Anaheim show. It's not my best recording by far, but it's still surprisingly decent for being recorded through my iPhone XR using the internal mics



    Last edited by NotoriousTIMP; 11-20-2018 at 12:42 PM.

  29. #2969
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Look, time for some roadie talk.

    Venues usually provide the staff for the merch, and generally speaking, the hardware for displays as well. So the venue is providing equipment, plus personnel to sort, count, set up, sell, and tear-down. You expect them to do that for free?

    And as someone astutely pointed out, concerts are expensive to put on. Every bus and truck has massive fuel bills. Every person on staff needs to eat four meals a day on show days (breakfast, lunch, dinner, after show). And they also need hotel rooms on days without shows. You've also got dozens, if not 100+, local staff who are hired just to set up and tear down - often at union rates, which are insanely high in many places. That's not even counting security and other building staff. Example: Madison Square Garden. Most bands LOSE money playing there, even if the show is sold out, because it costs so much money to put on a show there.

    And to wrap it all up, you have to think about scale. Larger bands can order larger quantities of merch and get pretty sizable discounts. Smaller bands often go with lower quality gear to save money. People seem to be thinking the APC stuff is higher quality, but they're not buying numbers like large stadium or arena pop artists are, so they're paying more for the stuff they're selling.

    Moral of the story: everyone's gotta make money if they want to be successful on tour. So if you're bitching about the stuff being overpriced because you think they're being greedy, chances are you're really just inadvertently saying "I don't care if you guys can afford to keep touring".
    I understand all of that. But how can a band like NIN who are equally as big as any of Maynard's projects sell their merch for half price when you factor all of this in as well?
    You can't help but look at it from an apples to apples perspective when you see Trent selling his stuff for much less. I'm sure Trent and friends have just as much of a road crew to pay as anyone else. It's not even just NIN here, I have been to hundred's and hundred's of concerts in my lifetime, and I can easily say that APC and TOOL have the highest price merch of ANY band out there in this day and age. Spin it however you want with your reasoning about needing to pay the crew and the trucks and the workers and all that, but it all comes down to overpriced merch. The band wants a bigger cut, that's all there is to it. At the Aftershock festival last year when APC was there, they had their hoody's for $90 and all other bands were in the $50-60 vicinity for theirs.

    It all boils down to music doesn't sell anymore, so artists need to make their money on the road now. I understand that, and that's fine, because I am a big support of buying concert merch for the shows I attend but charging the same price, or even MORE as the bloody concert ticket for a t-shirt or a hoody is downright ludicrous.
    Last edited by ManBurning; 11-20-2018 at 02:08 PM.

  30. #2970
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    -Different managers
    -Different graphic designers
    -Different product manufacturers
    -Different venues

    It's not apples-to-apples to compare APC to NIN.

    Artistst ALWAYS made their money on the road. You know how much an artist would get from a $15 CD in the pre-Napster area? About fifty cents. Then you've got all your expenses you need to pay with that money. Merchandise has always been the bread and butter of artists' financial ability to continue a career.

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