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Thread: The little things that piss you off

  1. #2641
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    It... those are two different things? Do you sincerely believe people born white don't even have it a bit easier sometimes than someone who is black? Of course it is due to the way society is structured, something fueled by bigotry *in some cases* but... that doesn't make it not a thing? Here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privi...al_inequality)

    Also, I am misinterpreting you saying that statistics favoring white employement is due to white people being better workers, right? I'm getting that wrong?

  2. #2642
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    Quote Originally Posted by playwithfire View Post
    It... those are two different things? Do you sincerely believe people born white don't even have it a bit easier sometimes than someone who is black? Of course it is due to the way society is structured, something fueled by bigotry *in some cases* but... that doesn't make it not a thing? Here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privi...al_inequality)

    Also, I am misinterpreting you saying that statistics favoring white employement is due to white people being better workers, right? I'm getting that wrong?
    Yes, it is 2 different things. In my example intelligence, the privilege is having an understanding of that uniqueness beyond the norm, but the color of skin is irrelevant. That's what makes it a privilege. An advantage in skin color is completely different, because even though a person can have black Vs. white skin, if that person is intelligent then the division of race is no longer a factor. Context is important, otherwise the word advantage is redundant when throwing the word privilege around.

  3. #2643
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    Yes, it is 2 different things. In my example intelligence, the privilege is having an understanding of that uniqueness beyond the norm, but the color of skin is irrelevant. That's what makes it a privilege. An advantage in skin color is completely different, because even though a person can have black Vs. white skin, if that person is intelligent then the division of race is no longer a factor. Context is important, otherwise the word advantage is redundant when throwing the word privilege around.
    But that formula doesn't include prejudice, like racism or sexism. I can be the most intelligent job candidate of all of the job candidates but it won't get me the job if the business owner is a sexist jerk who thinks the home is the place for women and that I'm just trying to take mens' jobs. Or the super intelligent black guy ain't getting the job if the hiring manager thinks black people are subhuman primates who aren't fit to breathe his air.

    I agree that in a perfect world, color and sex wouldn't matter. But there's still a lot of hatred out there. I personally don't call it privilege. Also, the vast majority of people getting handouts in this country are lazy white people. The stats continuously prove that.

    My husband has relatives on his mom's side in rural Tennessee who have spent their entire lives collecting welfare and/or disability, for generations. They're all white. This is called White Trash.

    On the other hand, there are hundreds of thousands of white men, women and children living at or below the poverty line in this country, mostly in the south, who would die without "handouts." They are either unemployed or underemployed, or living in extreme rural areas.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 08:23 PM.

  4. #2644
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    Also, if a really brilliant black guy and a really brillant white guy are vying for the same jobs... the white guy will probably get more responses. People don't even realize they are likely to favor the white guy frequently. But "Malik Robinson" will probs get less wins than "Trevor Beauchamp"

  5. #2645
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    But that formula doesn't include prejudice, like racism or sexism. I can be the most intelligent job candidate of all of the job candidates but it won't get me the job if the business owner is a sexist jerk who thinks the home is the place for women and that I'm just trying to take mens' jobs. Or the super intelligent black guy ain't getting the job if the hiring manager thinks black people are subhuman primates who aren't fit to breathe his air.

    I agree that in a perfect world, color and sex wouldn't matter. But there's still a lot of hatred out there. I personally don't call it privilege. Also, the vast majority of people getting handouts in this country are lazy white people. The stats continuously prove that.
    White people are the majority though, so of course welfare shows it. I agree with you about the manager scenario, and there's no way around that until skin privilege is taken out of the equation. A start would be to rid ourselves of affirmative action, a both racist and sexist law by its very definition. The perfect world isn't hard to achieve, it's just impossible for most to accept the implications.

  6. #2646
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    White people are the majority though, so of course welfare shows it. I agree with you about the manager scenario, and there's no way around that until skin privilege is taken out of the equation. A start would be to rid ourselves of affirmative action, a both racist and sexist law by its very definition. The perfect world isn't hard to achieve, it's just impossible for most to accept the the implications.
    I disagree; diversity objectives (nobody has affirmative action, anymore, it's old fashioned -- people WANT diversity) have forced out the racist and sexist jerks from management and college boards. At one point, students started demanding diversity at Ivy League schools, so affirmative action became totally unnecessary; the schools started RECRUITING intelligent blacks, Muslims, Asians, WOMEN, etc., due to student DEMAND for diversity. Same thing for US Government jobs, corporate jobs, etc. Affirmative action is no longer needed when smart companies see that diversity is desired. Then, the hateful managers get forced out, the prejudice is not desirable.

    The recent SCOTUS University of Michigan decision showed that affirmative action is being replaced by desired diversity.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  7. #2647
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I disagree; diversity objectives (nobody has affirmative action, anymore, it's old fashioned -- people WANT diversity) have forced out the racist and sexist jerks from management and college boards.
    Are you being ironic?

  8. #2648
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    @allegro is better at discussing this stuff than me by miles, and is a smart lady, so I will leave you with her capable explanations.

    I'm giving myself this:



    ... and calling it a night on this topic.

  9. #2649
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    Are you being ironic?
    No. Affirmative action is enforced diversity. The only reason it was thought to be necessary was because of the racist and sexist jerks in power preventing hiring (or school acceptance). Like forced school integration where nobody wanted it.

    At some point, you don't need forced busing, anymore, where natural integration is happening.

    At one point in history, Harvard only accepted white males. Females went to Radcliffe. Harvard and Radcliffe didn't sign a merger until 1977.

    From Wikipedia:
    In 1945–1960 admissions policies were opened up to bring in students from a more diverse applicant pool. No longer drawing mostly from rich alumni of select New England prep schools, the undergraduate college was now open to striving middle class students from public schools; many more Jews and Catholics were admitted, but few blacks, Hispanics or Asians.

    Women remained segregated at Radcliffe, though more and more took Harvard classes. Nonetheless, Harvard's undergraduate population remained predominantly male, with about four men attending Harvard College for every woman studying at Radcliffe. Following the merger of Harvard and Radcliffe admissions in 1977, the proportion of female undergraduates steadily increased, mirroring a trend throughout higher education in the United States. Harvard's graduate schools, which had accepted females and other groups in greater numbers even before the college, also became more diverse in the post-World War II period.

    In 1999, Radcliffe College, founded in 1879 as the "Harvard Annex for Women", merged formally with Harvard University, becoming the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study.
    Juxtapose this with the deep south during forced school desegregation in the 60s, where people were trying to kill little black children for wanting to go to a white school.

    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #2650
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    Sorry bout that allegro, I didn't realize how late it was and had to catch the liquor store before it closed.

    Juxtapose this with the deep south during forced school integration in the 60s, where people were trying to kill little black children for wanting to go to a white school.

    It's 2014 friend, to juxtapose any absurdum is the very reason terms such as white privilege are not only accepted but forced into the collective. I could just as easily say the Crusades were sanctioned by Pope [whatever], so atheism should become law and remain so regardless of the year.

  11. #2651
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    Sorry bout that allegro, I didn't realize how late it was and had to catch the liquor store before it closed.

    It's 2014 friend, to juxtapose any absurdum is the very reason terms such as white privilege are not only accepted but forced into the collective. I could just as easily say the Crusades were sanctioned by Pope [whatever], so atheism should become law and remain so regardless of the year.
    But you're using an archaic term: Affirmative action; it was created when those boys up there were holding those signs; it died years ago.

    The final stake in its heart was the U-M SCOTUS opinion.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/justic...mative-action/

    https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...mative-action/

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/h...t_working.html
    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 09:31 PM.

  12. #2652
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    But you're using an archaic term: Affirmative action; it died years ago.

    The final stake in its heart was the U-M SCOTUS opinion.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/justic...mative-action/


    https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...mative-action/

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/h...t_working.html
    You can post as many links as you'd like, but the reality won't change: if you're not white, then by law you have to be not only considered but hired for a position, regardless of your qualification. That's still with us.

  13. #2653
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    You can post as many links as you'd like, but the reality won't change: if you're not white, then by law you have to be not only considered but hired for a position, regardless of your qualification. That's still with us.
    Nope. Not true. Only with certain Federal Government jobs, and that's being challenged. If you can't comprehend US Supreme Court opinions upholding affirmative action bans, then you're living in the 70s.

    From the above link:

    For all intents and purposes, affirmative action is dead.
    One could argue, as television pundit Juan Williams has, that affirmative action died three years ago with the Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision in Ricci v. DeStefano, a ruling that affirmed white firefighters’ claims that they were victims of reverse discrimination in the city of New Haven, Connecticut. After these firefighters passed a promotions test, city officials invalidated the test results because no black applicants passed, allowing the white applicants legal standing to claim they were mistreated. With that ruling, the conservative Court, under Chief Justice John Roberts, signed affirmative action’s death certificate.
    From the above link:
    Washington (CNN) - The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld a Michigan law banning the use of racial criteria in college admissions, a key decision in an unfolding legal and political battle nationally over affirmative action.

    The justices found 6-2 that a lower court did not have the authority to set aside the measure approved in a 2006 referendum supported by 58% of voters.

    It bars publicly funded colleges from granting "preferential treatment to any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin."
    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 09:41 PM.

  14. #2654
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Nope. Not true. Only with certain Federal Government jobs, and that's being challenged. If you can't comprehend US Supreme Court opinions upholding affirmative action bans, then you're living in the 70s.
    Okay then.

  15. #2655
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    Okay then.
    Nixon passed Affirmative Action:

    HISTORY
    THEN, AGAIN.

    The Massive Liberal Failure on Race

    Part 2: Affirmative action doesn’t work. It never did. It’s time for a new solution.

    Much of the quota-based implementation of "affirmative action" was enacted by LBJ's successor, Richard Nixon


    I.

    In 2009, I attended the NAACP’s 100th annual convention at the Midtown Hilton in New York. Not just the centenary celebration for the nation’s oldest civil rights organization, this was also the group’s first convention under our newly inaugurated black president. The theme of the week’s events was to pay homage to the great civil rights victories of the past while at the same time defining a new mission for the next century. But on the night NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous took the stage for his big speech, when the subject turned to affirmative action, he didn’t sound like he was charting a new course so much as doubling down on the orthodoxy of the past. “The only question about affirmative action,” Jealous declared, “isn’t whether or not we need the hammer. The only question is whether or not the hammer is big enough!”

    The line was met with thunderous applause. At the time, this didn’t really stand out to me, because, like a lot of well-intentioned but minimally informed white liberals, I believed in affirmative action. I didn’t have terribly strong convictions about it, but given America’s history it generally seemed like “the right thing to do.” That was five years ago. Then, in the course of writing a book about the history of the color line and our efforts to erase it, I took a closer look at the origins of affirmative action, and its results. Having done so, I’m a believer no more.

    In part because of recent Supreme Court cases like Fisher v. Texas, the current national conversation about affirmative action has focused mostly on its use in college admissions, but my focus here will be on affirmative action in the white-collar workplace, the failure of which I observed up close during my years in the advertising industry. Race-conscious policies in college admissions and corporate hiring are different creatures, with different pros and cons, but I came to see that they also share some common, troubling flaws.

    When I think back now to the rousing applause affirmative action earned at that Hilton ballroom, I can’t help but wonder why, 45 years down the line, liberals like Jealous are still so fervently devoted to a program so plainly inadequate and ill-conceived from the start. Having botched the effort to integrate American schools through the overzealous misuse of an otherwise valuable instrument, the school bus, the left’s second great blunder on race was pinning the economic fortunes of black America on affirmative action.

    II.

    Proponents of affirmative action tend to glorify the program by lumping it in with the great liberal victories of the civil rights movement. The phrase “affirmative action” first appeared in President Kennedy’s Executive Order 10925, which called for “affirmative action” to be taken to ensure people were employed “without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin.” And Lyndon Johnson is usually given credit for enunciating the principles of affirmative action when he called for reparative economic justice for black America in his famous “To Fulfill These Rights” speech at Howard University, saying, “You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and say, ‘You are now free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.”

    But neither Kennedy nor Johnson ever implemented anything resembling what we now describe as affirmative action—i.e., quotas and set-asides—on the economic front, largely because the Democratic party was beholden to Big Labor, whose unions were adamantly opposed to quotas of any kind. So while the great liberal crusade of the 1960s produced victories in the area of civil rights, it did little in the way of producing actual jobs for black Americans; in some states, black unemployment under Kennedy and Johnson actually went up, hence the frustration that exploded in the urban riots of Watts, Newark, and elsewhere. When Vietnam forced Johnson out of office, the task of implementing a program of reparative economic justice for the victims of slavery and segregation fell to our 37th president, Richard Milhous Nixon.

    That Richard Nixon was racist is well beyond dispute—he believed that, moral objections to abortion aside, the practice was justified in the case of mixed-race pregnancies. When giving instructions to the aide who scheduled his appointments and photo ops, Nixon said the Oval Office calendar should have “just enough blacks to show that we care”—setting a precedent for Republican racial engagement that stands to this day. But Nixon wasn’t just racist in the sense of thinking blacks inferior; he was racist in the sense that he subscribed to an actual taxonomy and hierarchy of race—the idea that different groups possess inherent qualities. Asians are smart and industrious. Jews are crafty but lack moral fiber, and so on. When the first wave of studies were published purporting to show that blacks have lower IQs than whites, Nixon, in a conversation with domestic aide Daniel Patrick Moynihan, said he “couldn’t agree more” with the findings. The president was quite generous on the subject of what black people were good at: “Athletics isn’t a bad achievement. You look at the World Series. What would Pittsburgh be without a hell of a lot of blacks?” But he was far less charitable when it came to black talent in other areas: “… when you get to some of the more shall we say profound, rigid disciplines, basically, they have a hell of a time makin’ it. … In terms of good lawyers, even though a lot of them go to law schools, I mean, it is not really their dish of tea.”

    Racist as he may have been, Nixon was also a pragmatist. With America’s cities beset by riots, he knew he had to take steps “not to have the goddamn country blow up.” Blacks needed jobs. And as someone who had grown up poor, Nixon did believe in the basic principle of what he called a man’s “right to earn.” Everyone, black or white, had a right to earn a decent living for his family. Nixon just had a limited opinion of what blacks were capable of earning. Another thing the president told Moynihan was that it was his job as president to be aware of the fact that blacks have “basic weaknesses,” and that those weaknesses needed to be taken into account when it came to formulating policy.

    The way in which affirmative action was implemented speaks volumes about the motivations behind it. Nixon’s first task upon taking office was to resolve the impasse between civil rights leaders and skilled labor unions. In his first address to Congress, the president announced what became known as the Philadelphia Plan, which imposed goals and timetables for race-based hiring in the city’s unions. Prior to the Philadelphia Plan, under Kennedy and Johnson, affirmative action had always meant to take affirmative action to ensure discrimination was not taking place. Now, affirmative action meant imposing racial preferences and quotas. After its launch in Philadelphia, the program was rolled out in dozens of other cities nationwide. In the meantime, the White House was busy stuffing racial-preference policies into the federal bureaucracy wherever it could find room. In the spring of 1969, Nixon expanded affirmative action mandates from government procurement contracts and applied them to any institution that received any federal funds of any kind, which brought universities, research institutions—basically everyone—into the fold. Then Nixon issued Executive Order 11478, which called for affirmative action in all government employment, bringing huge numbers of black workers onto the federal payroll. Racial preferences, as we know them today, were now sewn into the fabric of the country.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-29-2014 at 09:56 PM.

  16. #2656
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    my best friend, when his wife killed herself a few months ago, had someone make a hand blown glass piece in which to keep her ashes. it has a cross on it...it's really dope...although i wasn't prepared for my brother's enthusiastic "Here! It's Elizabeth!" when he handed it to me, for fuck's sake. It was a little too soon... @allegro did you see what Johnny Depp did with Hunter Thompson's ashes?

    Ok so this is little things that piss you off. I doubt you guys notice, but i don't end a sentence with a preposition. Like i didn't say "a glass piece to keep her ashes in"

    And every fucking day i hear people, learned people, people with doctorates on tv, ending sentences with a preposition, as if the rule has just gone out of style.
    I guess it has.

    Funny story on that subject, when Churchill was chastised for doing it, he famously replied "Madam, that's exactly the sort of thing up with which i will not put!"

  17. #2657
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    You hate ending a sentence with a preposition but you abuse the FUCK out of ellipses. :-)

    No I didn't hear, what did Johnny Depp do?

    Did you note how heavy your friend's urn and cremation remains were? Most people are surprised by that, because they think they're "ashes." They're not.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-30-2014 at 12:15 AM.

  18. #2658
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    You hate ending a sentence with a preposition but you abuse the FUCK out of ellipses. :-)

    No I didn't hear, what did Johnny Depp do?
    llololol sure enough.

    Johnny Depp had Hunter Thompson's ashes, as fireworks, fired out of a giant 150 ft cannon topped with the double thumbed gonzo fist, per hunter's wishes.
    Supposedly he knew that Johnny was the only person who was crazy enough, and who had the means, to do it.
    http://i.imgur.com/Et9nbx4.jpg

  19. #2659
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    llololol sure enough.

    Johnny Depp had Hunter Thompson's ashes, as fireworks, fired out of a giant 150 ft cannon topped with the double thumbed gonzo fist, per hunter's wishes.
    Supposedly he knew that Johnny was the only person who was crazy enough, and who had the means, to do it.
    http://i.imgur.com/Et9nbx4.jpg
    That's hilarious.

    Star Trek's Scotty's cremains were shot into space. I guess they eventually come back down, though, because the rocket isn't powerful enough to exit Earth's orbit.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/showbi...scottys-ashes/
    Last edited by allegro; 12-30-2014 at 12:29 AM.

  20. #2660
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    llololol sure enough.

    Johnny Depp had Hunter Thompson's ashes, as fireworks, fired out of a giant 150 ft cannon topped with the double thumbed gonzo fist, per hunter's wishes.
    Supposedly he knew that Johnny was the only person who was crazy enough, and who had the means, to do it.
    http://i.imgur.com/Et9nbx4.jpg
    I forget the documentary but it's one of the newish one on Thompson where he talks about how he wants that done with his ashes. IIRC he even turns and points to the hill where the fist cannon was to be placed. I was pretty happy when i found out that he actually had it done.

    Also just people in general today. Wasn't even that bad a day and maybe I'm projecting here but man for some reason I'm just not having any sort of it. Im probably just crabby.
    Last edited by Pillfred; 12-30-2014 at 12:41 AM.

  21. #2661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillfred View Post
    I forget the documentary but it's one of the newish one on Thompson where he talks about how he wants that done with his ashes. IIRC he even turns and points to the hill where the fist cannon was to be placed. I was pretty happy when i found out that he actually had it done.

    Also just people in general today. Wasn't even that bad a day and maybe I'm projecting here but man for some reason I'm just not having any sort of it. Im probably just crabby.
    yeah, it was fucking great. and remember, he talks to the funeral director about it, who is just baffled?

  22. #2662
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    sorry for the double post, but HEY now @orestes and @allegro , not all texans are right wing gun toting bigots.
    I'm just about far enough to the left to be a fucking socialist. I don't hate queers or jews or blacks or mexicans...in fact, i support all oppressed peoples.

    Yes, there are a lot of stupid, backward rednecks in texas, especially in the panhandle, where i live now.

    But i came up in Dallas, and as far as i can tell, it's no different than any other major metro.

  23. #2663
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    . . .which is why I posted a pic of Kinky Friedman.

  24. #2664
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    not having internet or heat in my new apartment. the amount of phone calls i'm having to make to try and fix that. the fact that no one gives a shit because of the holidays. but my ps4 got delivered today so i've got that going for me.

  25. #2665
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    when people refuse to acknowledge/believe something even when you present them with facts because they're blinded by their own misconstrued view of the world.

  26. #2666
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    Ugh.

    A short backstory: Nebraska fired their head football coach after 7 winning seasons. They did it on a Sunday, and didn't allow the players to have a meeting with him - they emailed the players. A staff member at a local high school let Pelini and the players use the auditorium to have a final meeting. The staff member then got a bill. I started a GoFundMe to cover the bill for the staff member. Made the money in less than two hours. Then kept it going, stating that everything excess would be donated to a local charity for pediatric brain cancer that is closely linked with the Nebraska football team.

    I got this message on facebook this morning:

    you should give pelini a blowjob. maybe he will pay you for it so you get some of the money back you begged people to donate...oh wwait, you probably gave them head for that too. lol

    glad pelini is done.

  27. #2667
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    LOLOLOL ^^^^
    That was douchy but hysterical.

  28. #2668
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    Yes. Nothing like a bit of misogyny to brighten the morning.

  29. #2669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    Yes. Nothing like a bit of misogyny to brighten the morning.
    Don't look at it that way, see how it really is.
    This stranger saw what you did, thought about you, was bothered by what you did, SEEKED YOU OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, sent you a message and is probably still thinking about you.

    Thats a win Sarah.

  30. #2670
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Don't look at it that way, see how it really is.
    This stranger saw what you did, thought about you, was bothered by what you did, SEEKED YOU OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, sent you a message and is probably still thinking about you.

    Thats a win Sarah.
    *sought, not seeked

    also, no, it's not a win. someone went WAY out of their way to say something HORRIBLE (on many levels) to her after she had done something kind and selfless. how is their reaction in any way positive?

    (this is why i can't be your friend, tony, because you just don't care about other people's feelings at all)

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