The little things that piss you off

[elevenism]

Well, my wife still can't eat...ANYTHING, not even a pill, but we're having to BEG for her to be allowed to stay till tomorrow morning.

They told us to go to either the MAYO or CLEVELAND clinic.

ummmm...yeah. With us both being disabled, and having MAYBE $300 between the two of us, and no car, we'll get right on that.

What part of Texas is Cleveland in? :P

[Jinsai]

Well, my wife still can't eat...ANYTHING, not even a pill, but we're having to BEG for her to be allowed to stay till tomorrow morning.

They told us to go to either the MAYO or CLEVELAND clinic.

ummmm...yeah. With us both being disabled, and having MAYBE $300 between the two of us, and no car, we'll get right on that.

What part of Texas is Cleveland in? :P

If she cannot eat, she needs to be fed through an IV as fast as possible. This can deteriorate so fast. I went for about a week without eating once, very recently, because I was sick with those Kratom withdrawals. Wound up in the hospital. I felt like I was getting better but just couldn't stand the idea of eating... then suddenly everything, and mean everything went downhill fast. I felt stupid, I couldn't read or type, then I found that standing up was difficult, my muscles stopped working, I'd be able to move a couple steps and then have to try hard to balance or I'd lose my equilibrium and fall over.

When I finally said "ok fuck this" I went to the hospital, and they said I very nearly could have died. They stuck an IV in me and 24 hours later I was feeling so much better, and they must have given me something to stimulate my appetite because I could finally stomach the idea of soft food, like yogurt or kifur.

I don't generally share these sorts of things, but if she can't eat, she is in a medical emergency, and you need to take her to the ER.

[elevenism]

If she cannot eat, she needs to be fed through an IV as fast as possible. This can deteriorate so fast. I went for about a week without eating once, very recently, because I was sick with those Kratom withdrawals. Wound up in the hospital. I felt like I was getting better but just couldn't stand the idea of eating... then suddenly everything, and mean everything went downhill fast. I felt stupid, I couldn't read or type, then I found that standing up was difficult, my muscles stopped working, I'd be able to move a couple steps and then have to try hard to balance or I'd lose my equilibrium and fall over.

When I finally said "ok fuck this" I went to the hospital, and they said I very nearly could have died. They stuck an IV in me and 24 hours later I was feeling so much better, and they must have given me something to stimulate my appetite because I could finally stomach the idea of soft food, like yogurt or kifur.

I don't generally share these sorts of things, but if she can't eat, she is in a medical emergency, and you need to take her to the ER.

I've taken her FOUR TIMES, and they FINALLY admitted her several days ago. I kinda lost the concept of "day."
she's been throwing up about once a day for two years,
but ten or eleven days ago, it switched to ten or twenty times a day: water, bile, etc.

She's been there for 6(?) days, in amarillo, and they insist that she's safe to come home, because she drank a CLEAR supplement drink, and held that down.
Then, they gave her a REGULAR Ensure, which caused her to vomit, nonstop, again.

(post release, we are to follow up on at Mayo Clinic in fucking MN, Or Johns Hopkins in Maryland, no shit, BUT, they're releasing her whether we like it or not).

This isn't actually a "little thing:" the rest of the story is in the "how fucked was your day thread."
idk wtf to do. i KNOW she's in BIG trouble with nutrition.
THEY are blaming it on marijuana...which she was prescribed in Oklahoma, FOR her fucking gastroparesis, and insisting on discharging her tomorrow morning at the latest.

i am so fucking scared.

But yeah. That's IT.
ONE clear supplement drink, and tiny sips of water.

idk WTF happens when she loses the goddamn iv fluids.

hospital is 80 miles away and i have been back and forth repeatedly, which caused me to have a fucking WRECK and blow out two tires, and, yeah. I can't...fucking christ on rubber crutches.

I can barely move my goddamn head. I have to get going: she needs an advocate.

[allegro]

@elevenism - I’ve emailed you a few times but read this:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt...mesis-syndrome

Hot baths and showers supposedly work really well to alleviate symptoms.

[MrLobster]

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt...mesis-syndrome

Personally, I have a lot of questions about that... namely what does "a lot of cannabis" mean specifically. Because I smoke 4g a day on average for medical issues and I've had nothing like that ever occur.

So something is... missing... from the conversation.

[otnavuskire]

Personally, I have a lot of questions about that... namely what does "a lot of cannabis" mean specifically. Because I smoke 4g a day on average for medical issues and I've had nothing like that ever occur.

So something is... missing... from the conversation.

This isn't a case of "this will happen to you once you reach this specific threshold of use." It's not something that happens to everyone that uses it. The article specifically says it's something that only occurs in a small portion of people who use cannabis.

[otnavuskire]

Exactly.

Here are some more articles:

https://www.karger.com/article/fulltext/494992

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crigm/2015/405238/

Yeah, there are articles all over the internet. And you really shouldn't need to link anything beyond that first link, as the Cleveland Clinic is one of the best hospitals in the world. This isn't a case of "OMG this is anti-marijuana propaganda!" in any way shape or form. This is a diagnosable medical condition that effects a small percentage of marijuana users.

[allegro]

^ the additional links weren’t for you. I was just trying to be helpful.

Personally, I have a lot of questions about that... namely what does "a lot of cannabis" mean specifically. Because I smoke 4g a day on average for medical issues and I've had nothing like that ever occur.

So something is... missing... from the conversation.

The hospital may be guessing, too. Because they don’t know if she’s a “chronic user.” She could have cyclic vomiting syndrome. Hospitalists aren’t good at determining specialty things like this. Especially at hospitals like that which are understaffed (most across this country already are, but rural hospitals are worse).

Ultimately? It’s all about insurance, here. At some point, the insurance says “we ain’t paying for this” and the hospital is there only for profit. That’s when you’re getting discharged. With whatever “diagnosis” and a code they put on the discharge papers. “Have a nice day, hope you feel better!”

[chuckrh]

^ the additional links weren’t for you. I was just trying to be helpful.



The hospital may be guessing, too. Because they don’t know if she’s a “chronic user.” She could have cyclic vomiting syndrome. Hospitalists aren’t good at determining specialty things like this. Especially at hospitals like that which are understaffed (most across this country already are, but rural hospitals are worse).

Ultimately? It’s all about insurance, here. At some point, the insurance says “we ain’t paying for this” and the hospital is there only for profit. That’s when you’re getting discharged. With whatever “diagnosis” and a code they put on the discharge papers. “Have a nice day, hope you feel better!”

3-4 years ago I had pieces of 3 vertebrae cut out. My insurance at the time classified that as a day surgery. Obviously whoever came up with that never had it done. Anytime the words bone saw are involved should be some sort of sign. My doctor pitched a fit & I was in the hospital about 5 days. Turned out it wasn't enough. I woke up after my first night home in a pool of blood (sorry for ugliness). Now, the same issue has came back except worse. Most likely I'm looking at major surgery but afterwards I'll be in a rehab center for a bit rather than fending for myself. I see the neurosurgeon in a week & that should tell a tale. I'm guessing by the time I get through all the red tape this will happen end of the year or early next year. I'm really trying to keep from being confined to a wheelchair as I don't want to live like that. Needless to say, kind of sucks to be Chuck right now. Getting old isn't for the meek.

[otnavuskire]

^ the additional links weren’t for you. I was just trying to be helpful.

Sorry if my post came off as criticizing you. It was more being annoyed at someone (not you) insinuating that this isn't a real thing and is just anti-marijuana propaganda. My intention was to back you up, not put you down. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[allegro]

Getting old isn't for the meek.

ESPECIALLY with our insurance and healthcare system!

Edit: I’m having one tonsil removed and biopsied in a few weeks. In the Olden Days, you stayed in the hospital and got served ice cream for that. My surgery is being done at a “surgery center” (by a specialist who’s been an ENT surgeon for 35 years; when HE doesn’t use a hospital, I had to wonder what was up), same day. Like, I’ll be leaving within a few hours. Everything is “in network” of my PPO, the specialist office sent me a checklist for BCBS. Recovery will take two weeks, so I’ll miss Thanksgiving. But my doc says it’ll be “half” as brutal.

I’m thinking of rescheduling until AFTER the holidays because this just sucks.

[chuckrh]

ESPECIALLY with our insurance and healthcare system! At least we’re closer to Medicare, Chuck. Just don’t do Medicare Advantage!!

Edit: I’m having one tonsil removed and biopsied in a few weeks. In the Olden Days, you stayed in the hospital and got served ice cream for that. My surgery is being done at a “surgery center” (by a specialist who’s been an ENT surgeon for 35 years; when HE doesn’t use a hospital, I had to wonder what was up), same day. Like, I’ll be leaving within a few hours. Everything is “in network” of my PPO, the specialist office sent me a checklist for BCBS. Recovery will take two weeks, so I’ll miss Thanksgiving. But my doc says it’ll be “half” as brutal.

I'm already on an Advantage plan. It sucks & things are a mess. The donut hole. I had 1 med that went from $16 a month to $250 a month then back down to $100. I need help, working on it. I had to retire a bit early on disability, couldn't handle the high pressure, intense job anymore. I was responsible for literally millions of dollars. As it was I worked 5 years longer than the docs wanted me to. I've been living under the sword of Damocles for a real long time & the thread is unwinding. Things are snowballing. It's really tough when you're on your own. Sorry to whine. Things have been going even shittier than usual lately. I'm at the end of the road for treatments for the main issue. Going back to a drug I've been on before & hoping it does some good. The bad part is it's a really nasty cancer drug & the side effects are terrible. The infusion is tomorrow & not looking forward to it. 5 hours on the needle then over an hour drive home. 1 drug they gave me killed me for a minute. I call it the Pulp Fiction incident. That was an interesting day.

[allegro]

Yeah after I typed that, I thought “wait, he’s likely already ON Medicare!” So I edited it but you were already quoting me by that point.

Medicare Advantage saves some monthly premiums but it ultimately costs MORE in everything if you ever actually need to USE it. It’s only good for perfectly healthy people who never use it. Otherwise, it totally SUCKS.

For someone like you with a debilitating illness, you need more coverage and less out-of-pocket, bigger network, no HMO bullshit. With Advantage, it’s the primary and Medicare is your supplemental, which makes no sense and is fucking ridiculous and just a way for the government to get out of coverage.

As with anyone facing a health crisis, you should be thinking about healing and quality of life decisions and not “what’s covered by Medicare and who’s gonna pay for it.”

Sorry you’re going through this illness, and that medicine hasn’t figured out a better cure, yet.

[Jinsai]

that cannabis sickness thing is EXTREMELY rare, and to get it you need to be smoking so much pot it's absurd.

[allegro]

that cannabis sickness thing is EXTREMELY rare, and to get it you need to be smoking so much pot it's absurd.

Not according to the abstracts. It’s more related to chronic (longterm) use, even in small amounts, and not eating. Something in THC and a neurological trigger in the enteric nervous system. CHS isn’t permanent, either; it’s totally reversible.

[elevenism]

Not according to the abstracts. It’s more related to chronic (longterm) use, even in small amounts, and not eating. Something in THC and a neurological trigger in the enteric nervous system. CHS isn’t permanent, either; it’s totally reversible.

Yeah I mean, fuck. I hear you.

But she hasn't touched grass in weeks at this point. So I just don't know.

[MrLobster]

Not according to the abstracts. It’s more related to chronic (longterm) use, even in small amounts, and not eating.

What does long term mean?
Again, as someone who is quite literally forced to inhale cannabis to manage a severe movement disorder for over a decade now, it's kinda important to know...

[allegro]

What does long term mean?
Again, as someone who is quite literally forced to inhale cannabis to manage a severe movement disorder for over a decade now, it's kinda important to know...

Do you eat regularly? If yes, you’re seemingly not at risk.

Also, per some of the abstracts, “chronic” can be as little as 5 years, as “use” can be once a day.

It’s a link between the THC, lack of eating, the nervous and enteric system.

[allegro]

Yeah I mean, fuck. I hear you.

But she hasn't touched grass in weeks at this point. So I just don't know.

It’s likely that the only reason they mentioned this is because repeated cyclic vomiting that also comes with repeated showers or baths (which provide relief) tends to be CHS. AND people often lie about their use. And they had to discharge her per insurance. So they were, like, it’s either CHS or CVS. Good luck, bye!!

But this says “Relief of vomiting by a sustained cessation of cannabis use.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK549915/

But THIS says:

“Compulsive bathing behaviour, a clinical observation previously attributed only to CHS patients is equally present in CVS patients.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5360975/

Again, the ER is a great place to be if you just got shot or had a heart attack.

Otherwise?

Fishing expedition. And they’re more likely to discharge you WITHOUT a real diagnosis and refer you to a specialist.

My Mom had two visits to our local high-class ER in July with bradycardia. Her pulse was averaging 43. She fell in the shower, hit her head. Required an MRI, X-rays, trip to an orthopedic surgeon regarding a chip in her wrist bone. Did that lead to pacemaker surgery? No. They told me to get her a cardiologist and to see her primary.

Her PRIMARY quarterbacked the whole thing and within a few months, I had her to a specialized cardiologist, she had a pacemaker installed, saw a new regular cardiologist, followed up with a “device nurse,” saw her primary a few more times, had an echocardiogram ordered by the primary, saw her glaucoma doc about her beta blocker glaucoma drops which were aggravating the bradycardia, went on different drops, then went back on those drops, and the primary helped me get a handicap parking placard from the state. This was all between July 2 and October 7th. I communicate with her primary via a messaging system.

The ER had nothing to do with any of this. But, they have a grand piano in the lobby and room service.

[MrLobster]

Do you eat regularly? If yes, you’re seemingly not at risk.

Can you define regularly for me? More than a few people would describe my eating as not all that regular... and at the moment it's even worse.

But just so I have this as clearly... for cannabis-related hyperemesis to more likely occur three things are needed;

A lot of cannabis usage (and undefined what "a lot" or "usage" means) and/or
Long term regular usage (both duration and amount undefined)
Not eating regularly (undefined)

And as someone who smokes a lot (a defined amount) and has for a long time (I know when I started and for how long) and doesn't eat all that regularly (I'm 50/50 on it), these are kind of important to know and be legit concerned about... but all this vagueness isn't helpful.

This isn't me being skeptical "anti-[cannabis] propaganda"; this is me trying to figure out causes. If doctors are going to be concerned (and even alarmist) about such things, we need details. And right now, those don't seem to be forthcoming.

[allegro]

Can you define regularly for me? More than a few people would describe my eating as not all that regular... and at the moment it's even worse.

Read the literature.

It describes patients who are prescribed cannabis for things like M.S. or chemotherapy.

Read the abstracts. You read a book a day, dude. I’m sure you can handle reading medical abstracts. It’s neuroscience, but it’s not too complicated.

Medicine isn’t 100% about ANYTHING. It’s why we don’t have a cure for cancer. Neurologists aren’t 100% sure how the brain works.

If you’re afraid of this happening to you, I wouldn’t be. It could, but it also might not. If it does, then it is what it is.

[MrLobster]

Let's address the first part... I have read the literature. I did understand. It's not actually all that useful.

And why do I say that... well, you articulated it well.

It could, but it also might not. If it does, then it is what it is.

Yes, it needs a hell of a lot more research. And until people can consume (and therefor study more properly) without fear of being fined or jailed and then imprisoned; well... the US has a long way to go on it.

I'd really like to see some purely Canadian research on it but that's... well, I can't find any. (I have found stuff that reiterates the US-based stuff but when you have Doc's saying "I see a patient a shift" and then doesn't go into the details, suspicions are raised).

[allegro]

Let's address the first part... I have read the literature. I did understand. It's not actually all that useful.

And why do I say that... well, you articulated it well.



Yes, it needs a hell of a lot more research. And until people can consume (and therefor study more properly) without fear of being fined or jailed and then imprisoned; well... the US has a long way to go on it.

I'd really like to see some purely Canadian research on it but that's... well, I can't find any. (I have found stuff that reiterates the US-based stuff but when you have Doc's saying "I see a patient a shift" and then doesn't go into the details, suspicions are raised).

According to this:

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health...uana-laws.aspx

MEDICAL-USE UPDATE: As of February 3, 2022, 37 states, three territories and the District of Columbia allow the medical use of cannabis products.

NON MEDICAL/ADULT-USE UPDATE: As of May 27, 2022, 19 states, two territories and the District of Columbia have enacted measures to regulate cannabis for adult non medical use.

I live in a state where both medical and recreational use is legal.

I actually have to steer clear of THC due to heavy chronic use in my younger years; that, coupled with anxiety, led to way worse anxiety. This is why I quit, as well as many people I know. There have been many studies that support this, which of course can only be based on anecdotal evidence (vs. autopsy evidence). I have had better experience mixing low levels of THC with CBD. My anxiety wasn’t based on fear of being arrested, as it was the 70s and everyone was smoking pot. Reagan hadn’t been elected, yet.

There are footnotes to sources in those abstracts.

One study is from Australia:

https://gut.bmj.com/content/53/11/1566

This was published in Canada (you can read it in either English or French):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886568/

[Jinsai]

this sickness also varies person to person. Like, Bob Marley didn't have it... I don't have it, and while I don't feel entirely comfortable talking about my intake in great detail, I'll just say that I would qualify for it. If you have it and just stop smoking it should just go away pretty fast. Last time I'd heard about this, I think only one person had died from it (from dehydration from the constant vomiting... should have been in a hospital)

[ickyvicky]

Yeah these election text messages are getting out of hand.

Do you think they know if you open the text or not? I have my read messages off, but just wonder if they can still see for a marketing perspective.

[allegate]

that's a thing? damn. I know that in outlook I have it set to always ask me if I want to send a read receipt* so why can't I do that for texts?

*the only times I send the read receipt is when they put it on something stupid like a calendar invite or something really stupid like a group email. I make sure to delete those messages so they get a "message deleted without being read" notification.

[Jinsai]

oh man... just got up and now I'm dreading checking my phone. I'm just going to research the props before I head down to vote. In general I leave them blank or vote "no" if I'm not familiar or it sounds shifty. You have to be proposing something pretty clearly awesome to get a "yes" vote from me there. Otherwise, I'm decided.

All I know is that I will never vote for Karen Bass or any other scientologist or anyone who panders to scientologists. I draw a firm line there.
You know how many landlords in Los Angeles are Scientologists? "Oh, I know it's so unaffordable to live in this city, but hey, the church might be able to help you out there"
Fuck Scientology. They go beyond a cult. They're like the mafia on crack.

[elevenism]

this sickness also varies person to person. Like, Bob Marley didn't have it... I don't have it, and while I don't feel entirely comfortable talking about my intake in great detail, I'll just say that I would qualify for it. If you have it and just stop smoking it should just go away pretty fast. Last time I'd heard about this, I think only one person had died from it (from dehydration from the constant vomiting... should have been in a hospital)

We've been here for like, eleven days?

And she's been admitted for a hot minute.

I.HOPE it's the marijuana thing...it's just that, ALL of.her doctors TELL.her to.smoke, and it's helped for a long ass time.

What's pissing ME off is that we.cant.seem.to.convince these people.that she isn't smoking THC like, while she's BEEN here.

[elevenism]

ok so I don't want to give every little detail, or even post.much, because I don't wanna sound like a whiney bitch, fishing for, well,.anything.
But my wife, SheapJynx DWI, aka Mrs. Eleven DWI...
It's hit that point that she can't live anymore without nutrition.. It's been weeks.

So,
they've got her on an NG tube: from nose directly to stomach. It took five tries to get the tube from nasal.cavity to stomach. There was LOTS of blood and NO.sedation of ANY kind.
We've both SEEN this shit in our healthcare careers, but never EXPERIENCED it.

She HATES and doesn't tolerate this Abu Ghraib style feeding method, but she was running out of time.

SHE wants them to just do a J tube: through the navel, Piercing the intestine, and stomach, so this shit isn't up her nose and down her throat, like, RIGHT NOW, but I don't think.she'll get that so soon..I'm sure there is protocol.

Anyway, just in case you wanted an update, FLORIDA SHEAPJYNX ELEVEN LIVES!!! She lives miserably, but she LIVES, for now!
DWI Never Dies.

If you feel so inclined, pray or send love and light or hail Satan or whatever you're into.

Thank y'all who care, for caring.

[elevenism]

I used to think the very idea of doing drugs in the hospital was totally insane, until I became best pals with a post-surgical RN of nearly 30 years who mostly works night shifts.

HOLY SHIT the stories she tells me. People sneaking in METH! Putting HEROIN into IV lines! They catch people doing this shit on room cameras. I’m like … WHAT?!?!?

(Yeah … there are hidden cameras in rooms in hospitals now because of shootings and drugs and stuff, and people getting out of bed and falling, and to make sure patients are actually getting their prescribed meds, etc.)

Never mind that people bring in SUITCASES like they’re MOVING IN, and the nurses find the patient’s GUESTS in the SHOWERS, and peeing in the patient’s toilet hat.

I used to feel bad if I brought my mom fried chicken!

Hospitals are now considered one of the most dangerous work places.

@allegro she stopped using the marijuana she was prescribed in oknlahoma, and which EVERY doc she sees endorses, including her GI doc, like a MONTH ago when we found out it was a one in a million possibility.
And yeah. I'VE taken fent IN the hospital, in like 2010 (when it wasn't a media sensation and I had enough of it to kill a herd of elefantes), so I feel you, but I.DAMN sure knew what I was doing, exactly, because I knew EXACTLY what had happenwd, AND, I'd NEVER jeopardize Mrs..Eleven DWI's health.
I won't even sneak her a nicotine.

And REMEMBER. I TOLD them to.call the cops. I SHOWED them the vaporizer and juice, which clearly say "NICOTINE/24mg."
I BEGGED them to drug test ME.

And they're like YOU have a XANAX prescription!

There WILL be retribution of some kind..we've been treated like shit in the fight of our fucking married life.

She's been misdiagnosed and chastised..When I try to ask questions of certain nurses and doctors, they LITERALLY pretend like I'm not speaking and LITERALLY slam the door.

They have special hospital approved shirts that say NARROW MINDED CHRISTIAN..
I wanna hurry up and have a shirt printed that says
NARROW MINDED MUSLIM.
Or
NARROW MINDED HINDU

Or Sikh or Gnostic or Mandean or ANYTHING.

We DO still have a family attorney on retainer, and we've already let.him know that if shit goes sideways, we wanna fight fire with a fucking nuclear holocaust.

Edit: also, heroin in IV lines?.That's been going on for decades.

Last edited by elevenism; Today at 03:17 AM.