Prometheus

[owinn]

Lutz is borderline troll, just ignore him

The fact somebody would choose another H.R.Giger designed sci-fi as a comparison is somewhat telling...

[frankie teardrop]

yeah, this is a case where the faceplam button is my very favorite thing.

[Lutz]

I haven't seen it yet, so I don't really know. The ad for Prometheus blows the movie Species 2 away though, so I have a hard time believing you here.

It's hard to believe until you see it but the trailer is literally a small clip taken from each scene in the movie and linked together. If you've seen the trailer you've literally seen the whole movie. I've gone over it in my head and apart from the creatures (which were shown in the later trailers) there isn't a single scene missing from the original trailer.

And re. being a troll. Maybe take a look back through my previous movie posts and see if I haven't given some good explanations for why I dislike movies and if it isn't framed within a bigger appreciation of movies.

I didn't compare this to Species because it had better ideas, better pacing and better design. Also note that I chose those three specific (intelligent, well designed, practical effects) because I considered them the main draw seeing this (like Alien/Blade Runner). I also considered that many other people would and understand that sort of comparison.

[Lutz]

It's also explained in the movie why Spoiler: the engineers turned on us. When they carbon date the death of the engineers it is two thousand years ago. The engineers were going to destroy us because our religion had turned to Christ.

[YKWYA]

I echo the above.....

I dont think that you can take this movie on face value. There is a lot of subtlety. Embodied mostly in the scene between David and Holloway. 'We made you because we could'. What if your maker told you that? You are a whim. Thats it. What would that do to religion? What if we are just an accident? An event in a chaotic system? Giving the appearance of providence but actually nothing of meaning at all? We seek answers but they never come. But yet, what if in a chaotic system events give the appearance of providence, and something going wrong when an alien race was about to destroy us, allows thousands of years or human evolution, where, despite some really bad things, we also accomplish some things incredible? But 'Why'? Human Beings have a penchant for 'Whys?' when actually there may be none. Maybe Human beings need to understand there is no reason behind us whatsoever.

Then ther eis the question of, if the SJs made us, 'Who made them?'. The end of the film gives the answer.

Its about expectation. I spent a lot of time reading the movie forums, and so much was built up about this movie. We dont want to admit it, but we want to know 'why', so much so that we can think a movie offers a glimmer (even taking in some mythological themes) that we might find it. But in the end, its just a movie. And we made it because we could. There are no answers. It just is.

[Lutz]

Actually I've just done a complete 180 based on the spoiler posted above. It changes the end of the movie (making it a shout out to the audience of the actual story they are trying to convey and not some dreadful set up for a sequel - instead making it extremely self contained) and it changes the apparently stupid character decisions that are made throughout the movie into an overall thematic whole.

This movie is really set up like Blade Runner. The surface of the story and the way it is told completely leads you down the garden path. The length they go to to make you hate it makes the 180 all the more satisfying when it happens.

Totally misunderstood this one.

[theruiner]

The movie leaving questions unanswered doesn't worry me. What worries me is reading that the story is lacking and the characters are one-dimensional.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, and still looking forward to seeing this, but that has dampened my enthusiasm a bit.

[Lutz]

The movie actually does answer all the questions it asks it's just that the characters in the movie don't pick up the answers. Because the audience is so invested in the characters it misses the answers just as much as the characters. When you realise just how badly the characters have missed the answers to their questions it makes you appreciate it more for pulling the same trick on you.

[Nappyp]

Ok. So I just saw this. Spoilers.


Seriously..... SPOILERS.





The problem lies in the multiple rewrites, IMO. Its like they crammed a whole season worth of a TV show into 2 hours. There are WAY to many plots. As soon as it listed the crew number at 17 and I saw how many famous names and "that guy" faces in there, I knew there would be some loose ends. TBH, the first 20 min or so is compelling and has some well rounded charters (but that's because there were 4 maybe 5 characters). I knew what their motivation was and why they were going to the planet/moon. Then, the robot just sort of changes his goal due to an explained, but still mind boggling reason. The scientist guy just sort of gives up for no reason. They "crew" of the ship has some sort of honor/camaraderie that isn't really touched on until the last possible moment. Weyland lady doesn't really seem to do anything other than speak reason and be a bitch; her lines could have been spoken by any of the cast. There is more to her, but it's too quickly touched on then brushed under the rug to matter. They dont really explain what the opening shot was about, although you can do some detective work. It still is just there with no real explanation. What the hell was with the hologram projector security tape thing? Why cant they run the ion drives? Did you really have to use 10^24 Kilometers to say how far away that planet was? Why did that guy crab walk? Is it because it was creepy looking? Why was the captain southern when he easily could have been British like the rest of the cast?

All of these referenced, but not explored plot lines can be great. The seeds are there, and actually result in some intriguing things here and there. David, the robot, is defiantly the star of the movie. Our own Lawrence of Arabia. Yet, those possibilities cant make up for awkward pacing and plot holes/cannon inconsistencies. Or worse, the awkward blend of half assed sci fi (medical pod), weak philosophy (see later seasons of LOST), and loud noises to get scares instead of a slow building suspense.

[Findus]

[Alexandros]

Then there is the question of, if the SJs made us, 'Who made them?'. The end of the film gives the answer.

Actually I've just done a complete 180 based on the spoiler posted above. It changes the end of the movie (making it a shout out to the audience of the actual story they are trying to convey and not some dreadful set up for a sequel - instead making it extremely self contained) and it changes the apparently stupid character decisions that are made throughout the movie into an overall thematic whole.

Guys, I think I'm missing something here. Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand what "answer" was given. Either that, or I did but you're phrasing it in a way that confuses me. Please spoiler tag the answer, or PM me.

[jmtd]

Lutz, I'm not convinced your explanation in the spoiler above holds. Here's why:




Spoilers below







Spoiler: 2k years ago was indeed Christ, but what about Christianity specifically, as oppose to our other faith systems, is unique? Perhaps the notion of forgiveness? Is that damaging? Iain Banks explores that in "Transition", a good book. But anyway, there were at least two warships out and about: the one destined for earth, and the one crashed on lv-whatever from alien. The latter would appear to be of a different "generation". if we assume it was launched in a similar time frame, then something happened elsewhere 2k years ago as well, and christianity is no longer unique. If it was not launched at a similar time but earlier, perhaps a planet near lv-whatever held a civilisation that developed a Christ-esque religion and was due to be obliterated, but the ship crashed too soon.

Exploring the idea of Christianity being key here, did the engineer notice/recognise shaw's cross?

Finally, if the earth-bound ship was prevented from departing and was therefore where they found it, what about the other ship? Do we assume that was underneath one of the other ziggurats? Why hadn't that departed?

[Lutz]

Spoiler: It's because the initial set up of the movie with the cave paintings involves the engineers being the interactive (pre christian) gods of society. The Greek/Egyptian gods etc were physical and they interacted with the day to day social workings of people. When humans moved away from the engineers and created secular religion the engineers decided to destroy them.

It also changes the ending of the movie where it isn't actually just a shameless set up for the sequel; it's the folly of the main character failing to realise that it was her own faith that was the reason the engineers wanted to destroy them. It's very similar to the ending of Blade Runner finding the unicorn and then going into the elevator with the doors closing to an open end. Shaw is flying off in sheer arrogance of everything that has happened and her last monologue to David about finding out why the gods decided to destroy humans is also trying to point the audience back to the explanation which is contained within the movie.

[Sutekh]

Did Alien have three dimensional characters and great dialogue? I must have missed that

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

I'm too tired to organize my thoughts right now, but I just ran this and am seriously disappointed with it, even having carefully mediated my expectations and avoided most preview material. I expect we'll see further reductions in the Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes scores (currently 66 and 74, respectively) once this is dropped officially stateside, plus there's almost certain to be a significant backlash from the audience. This has nothing to do with it 'not being Alien', it has to do with it being, in the end, just not an especially good movie. Great production values, visually stimulating, great cast, and a scenario that could potentially be truly deep and fascinating, but the film is limp, muddled, shallow; it's a huge missed opportunity.

The opening had me really interested! And then, I don't know, I think about the point they first leave the tomb, everything begins to just fall apart in a very overtly calculated way—not just the expedition, but the dramatic elements as well.

I continue to be flabbergasted by the mediocrity of Ridley Scott.

Maybe I'll feel more charitable after I've slept on it.

[dlb]

So what I could gather these last couple of days from several forums is that this movie WAS indeed cut. approx. 27 minutes of it. While this might be wishful thinking on the side of the fans I think it goes very well with the negative reviews so far saying this is too fast and not edited very well and often confusing as scenes seem too short or not conjoined very well.

If that's true than fuck you Fox!

[littlemonkey613]

Did Alien have three dimensional characters and great dialogue? I must have missed that

Nope Alien had minimal character development and was pretty average in the dialogue department. Still a great screenplay though.

[Alexandros]

So what I could gather these last couple of days from several forums is that this movie WAS indeed cut. approx. 27 minutes of it. While this might be wishful thinking on the side of the fans I think it goes very well with the negative reviews so far saying this is too fast and not edited very well and often confusing as scenes seem too short or not conjoined very well.

If that's true than fuck you Fox!

If this is true, it explains a lot. In which case yes, a big "fuck you" is in order. We'll see.

[eversonpoe]

re-watching Alien for the first time in probably 10 or 12 years. my girlfriend has never seen it, but she must be really desensitized, because i'm jumping at the scary parts, and she just keeps laughing.

[theruiner]

Sorry if this has already been posted. I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I'm not going to scroll back through and see if someone already mentioned this.

Ridley Scott says Prometheus was cut down for the U.K. release in order to secure a milder rating

[harrismonkey]

Sorry if this has already been posted. I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I'm not going to scroll back through and see if someone already mentioned this.

Ridley Scott says Prometheus was cut down for the U.K. release in order to secure a milder rating

Interesting, but these cuts seem to have been very specifically to minimize gore enough to get a rating. What's described wouldn't account for plot holes and undeveloped characters.

[dlb]

So does this mean there are two different versions of the movie on the market right now?

[Sutekh]

Nope Alien had minimal character development and was pretty average in the dialogue department. Still a great screenplay though.

Exactly... I could stroke my chin raw and declare it a mood piece

What are the plot holes in prometheus?

[Vertigo]

Did Alien have three dimensional characters and great dialogue? I must have missed that

The thing is, it didn't try to. They're only intended to be a group of space truckers - this is established quickly, and the naturalistic, grubby dialogue supports it. It's a trick which could only work with such a strong cast, but work it does - they all feel very real.

[VERY mild spoilers]
Prometheus is an entirely different kettle of fish. Spoiler: Every character is coming from a very different place, and some of the roles are intended to be fairly meaty - yet they never feel fully developed. David the android is the most real-feeling person in the film, followed by Idris Elba's character who, like Alien's roster, is kept very simple.
Unfortunately the supporting cast is quite weak I think - Fifield's actor presents an obnoxious caricature (I had to check IMDB to be sure he wasn't the same guy who played Morse in Alien 3...) and Rafe Spall is very difficult to take seriously (he was the worst thing in The Shadow Line, which was quite a feat). I also didn't think Rapace did well; aside from being strangely young casting for a pioneering archaeologist, her accent was all over the place. Theron's character promised much but the writing fell short.
Not a hugely believable bunch in my opinion.

[Roth]

Exactly... I could stroke my chin raw and declare it a mood piece

What are the plot holes in prometheus?

Well.. having just returned from a midnight screening at the Arclight in Hollywood, I had a bunch of questions that are either resultant of plot holes or my own lack of understanding, or the fact that I was occasionally distracted when telling off the drunk, texting moron sitting next to me attempting to make a call on his cell.

Spoiler: Why did Shaw think that the Engineers "hated" humans, and how did she know to ask him this upon his awakening, before he had attacked anyone? Why was she so certain that the parasites encountered were biological weapons intended for earth, just because Idris Elba told her? As the film later reveals, they most likely were.. but how did she figure all this out so early on?

[Vertigo]

Spoiler: Another thing that's been puzzling me is what brought Shaw to believe the 'Engineers' created us in the first place... all we're presented with is that they visited us thousands of years ago. Coupled with your points, Rath (which puzzled me too), she seems to be psychic.

[Roth]

Spoiler: Her "they created us" hypothesis was based on the cave paintings and some other data collected, which eludes me at this point.. and then I guess further corroborated by the DNA match the lab analysis yielded halfway into the film. Again, Shaw approaches everything with a sense of certainty and clairvoyance that really imposes transparency onto the film as her dialogue becomes increasingly expositional and viewer-directed. So yeah, either there's some footage on the cutting room floor that bridges these gaps and explains how she reaches all her bold conclusions, or she's psychic. These and some other issues aside (Such as wishing Charlize Theron had been used more, she was awesome), I actually liked the film.

[Leman Russ]

I saw this last night, and am trying to come up with the right words to express my disappointment over this film. There was so many good things about it: the cinematography was gorgeous, I personally loved the score, and the first half of the movie was 100% solid. Then, it just went to shit. "Hey, you have a row of staples in your stomach, and blood is everywhere, but I'm not going to ask if you're okay. At all.".

There were so many other ways that they could done the second half of the movie to wrap up everything, and set things up better for a sequel or just directly lead in to the original Alien.

The best statement I can say about the movie is this: if I see it on cable TV in a few years, I probably still won't watch it again.

[kdrcraig]

The best statement I can say about the movie is this: if I see it on cable TV in a few years, I probably still won't watch it again.

Yikes, I've been on the fence about going to see it after all the things I've been reading in here, I think I'll wait for Netflix.

[dlb]

While my enormous anticipation has been REALLY dampend by now I still think this is a must-see in cinemas. What else is there that needs to be seen on the big screen this year anyway?

But yeah, I really don't like what's going on all over the web right now. I hope I'll enjoy it as much as alot of people have and that I can see past some of the criticism this movie got.