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Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

  1. #2311
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    Why are we accepting this???


  2. #2312
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    The sad thing is, I don’t think background checks are enough. They’re too easy to bypass. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his mom’s legally-obtained guns, killed her, then killed the children at Sandy Hook. People lie on firearm applications about mental illness.

    We need the Federal government to install metal detectors in all schools, to protect against guns AND bombs. There has been an increase in bomb threats in schools, as well. We need specially-trained security at schools, not armed teachers and not Sheriff’s Deputies drinking coffee in an office. We need the system to put a perimeter of safety around the schools so that the children and teachers inside are safe from ALL things - kidnapping, guns, bombs - and can learn and study without being constantly terrorized from fear of being killed.

    This doesn’t turn school into “prison.” It turns school into a safe, protected zone.

  3. #2313
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    NRA shuts down NRATV and fires Dana Loesch.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/u...n-mcqueen.html

  4. #2314
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    Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.

  5. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.
    Trump might be right. Mexico might actually pay for that wall to keep shitty white supremacist assholes like this out of their country. I wouldn't blame them.

  6. #2316
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.
    And in the shooter's suspected manifesto, it apparently goes out of its way at the end to say that his views "predate Trump." Uh, ok...

    EDIT: And now news is coming out that there's been a mass shooting in Ohio just now.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-04-2019 at 02:11 AM.

  7. #2317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    And in the shooter's suspected manifesto, it apparently goes out of its way at the end to say that his views "predate Trump." Uh, ok...

    EDIT: And now news is coming out that there's been a mass shooting in Ohio just now.
    I'm in Canton and there was a TON of shots fired a few streets down, just within the last hour or so. Shit is getting widespread.

  8. #2318
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    nearly 30 dead in two mass shootings on the same day...this is beyond out of control...awful

  9. #2319
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    Obviously try not to live your day to day in fear of losing your life but by all means be safe out there and keep your eyes peeled folks!

    My god the U.S. is so dysfunctional.

  10. #2320
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    So full of hate.

    That El Paso manifesto was disgusting.

    This shit needs to be deemed Domestic Terrorism, and sites like 8chan need to be heavily monitored and shut down. That’s not free speech, that’s hate speech that’s producing and training Domestic Terrorists.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 08-04-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #2321
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    It’s white terrorism, not domestic terrorism.

  12. #2322
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    It’s white terrorism, not domestic terrorism.
    If we have real programs that treat bombings and shooting people in Synagogues and Mosques and gay bars and churches and Wal-Marts and country music festivals and garlic festivals and schools etc. etc. as Domestic Terrorism, then we can more properly monitor these things (online, etc.) and stop calling it all “mental illness.”

    White nationalism is bad, yes. The FIRST thing they want to be called is white nationalist.

    The LAST thing they want to be labeled is Domestic Terrorist. But, that’s what they ARE.

    Mick Mulvaney was on Meet the Press this morning, scoffing at the idea that the El Paso shooter was a domestic terrorist; nah, the shooter is just a mentally ill dude with a gun.

    For the right, the only domestic terrorists are Muslims.

    Here’s a good article about our lack of adequate Federal laws.

    The Justice Department is treating Saturday’s mass shooting in El Paso, Texas that killed at least 20 people as a “domestic terrorism case” and exploring a hate crime connection, but the lack of a clear federal domestic terrorism law means these types of mass attacks aren’t usually prosecuted as such.

    US Attorney John Bash told reporters Sunday that the Justice Department was treating the shooting as domestic terrorism, but also said that federal law enforcement officials were working on the investigation with an eye towards federal hate crimes and firearms charges — not terrorism, explicitly.

    “We’re going to do what we do to terrorists in this country, which is deliver swift and certain justice,” Bash said.

    There are numerous federal and state crimes that prosecutors can turn to in cases of mass shootings. Defendants can be charged with murder, assault, or unlawfully possessing firearms, and the Justice Department can invoke federal hate crimes laws where there’s clear evidence of a racist or otherwise prejudiced motive. But even though these attacks are often referred to as domestic terrorism, federal prosecutions under US terrorism laws have been limited to cases involving foreign actors or organizations.

    The suspected shooter in El Paso has been identified by multiple outlets as 21-year-old Patrick Crusius. Local officials have said they’re investigating a potential “hate crime” connection, including a document posted online they believe but have not confirmed was written by the shooter that featured anti-immigrant and white supremacist rhetoric.

    El Paso District Attorney Jaime Esparza told reporters on Sunday that his office expected to bring capital murder charges and would pursue the death penalty.

    Federal law includes a definition for “domestic terrorism,” and federal terrorism laws don’t explicitly rule out prosecutions for domestic acts, but historically those laws have been used for cases with a foreign connection, from terrorism planned by overseas groups to US citizens trying to join groups such as ISIS. A section in the US code defining a particular term isn’t the same as a law criminalizing specific acts.

    Some national security experts and legal scholars say that’s a big problem, and not just one of semantics. For instance, defendants with white supremacist ties who are charged with stockpiling weapons and plotting — but not actually carrying out — mass attacks may only face lesser firearms offenses, said Mary McCord, a former senior national security official at the Justice Department.

    There’s also what McCord calls a “moral equivalency” problem — that the American public and law enforcement agencies don’t treat domestic mass attacks, including in cases where there’s a racist, anti-Semitic, or other motive considerd a hate crime, the same as attacks carried out by foreign actors, in terms of perception, attention, and resources.

    “Americans tend to equate terrorism with Islamic extremism, and, in today's polarized environment, with Muslims. But don't they tend to associate white supremacist violence with terrorism and they should,” said McCord, a legal scholar at Georgetown Univerity Law Center. “You can't prevent what you don't understand.”

    There isn’t pending legislation to create a federal domestic terrorism law. In March, Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin introduced the Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act, which would direct the Justice Department, FBI, and Department of Homeland Security to prepare an annual report on the domestic terrorism threat, including white supremacist and neo-Nazi activities, and what agencies were doing to fight it. It would also create an interagency task force to explore white supremacist activities within the US armed forces.

    Durbin’s bill has 19 co-sponsors, none of whom are Republicans, which means for now it faces little chance of movement in the Republican-led Senate.

    Under federal criminal law, “domestic terrorism” is defined as “acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any States” and are intended to intimidate civilians, influence government policy through intimidation, or affect how the government functions through mass destruction or other violence.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 08-04-2019 at 01:57 PM.

  13. #2323
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    Word is coming in that one of the Dayton victims was the shooter's own sister.

  14. #2324
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    Yeah, they even arrived to the area together.

  15. #2325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    Word is coming in that one of the Dayton victims was the shooter's own sister.
    And her boyfriend. Both shot to death in a car.

  16. #2326
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    Dayton shooter’s Twitter account was suspended, but was archived.

    People who’ve seen the whole thing say one tweet said he kind of liked Elizabeth Warren and followed some Antifa-associated groups.

    He was also suspended in high school for having a “hit list” and a “rape list” containing names of fellow classmates, but those records were sealed because he was a minor (would not prevent him from buying a weapon).

    His last post on Twitter told Biden’s generation to “hurry up and die” (in response to Biden allegedly telling Millennials to stop complaining). But then the shooter went and killed a bunch of young people, most of them black.

    Right wing Twitter assholes now blaming Antifa conspiracy. Listen, idiots, all extremists need to be put on the Domestic Terrorist watch list. There are no offsetting penalties.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 08-05-2019 at 11:14 AM.

  17. #2327
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    Gun control talk:

    I support the Second Amendment.

    But THESE weapons, with high capacity magazines where someone can shoot 30+ people in less than one minute?

    Ordered online?

    That’s not something that should be in the hands of an everyday citizen. Even the Chief of the Dayton Police is saying this.

    If not outright “banned,” they should be HEAVILY regulated as if they were military equipment.

    The Second Amendment doesn’t give us the right to bear ALL arms.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has already CLEARLY decided this, and SCALIA wrote the opinion.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 08-05-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  18. #2328
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    This is interesting. Not likely to really stop forums like this completely, but it's an interesting start: Cloudflare drops 8chan.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html


    Last edited by Demogorgon; 08-05-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  19. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    This is interesting. Not likely to really stop forums like this completely, but it's an interesting start: Cloudflare drops 8chan.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html


    They were down, then up again, then down again

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...daily-stormer/

  20. #2330
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    HORRIBLE weekend in Chicago’s West Side re shootings

    7 killed, 48 wounded.

    It peaked Sunday morning when 17 people were shot.

    Someone captured audio of the Douglas Park shootout, released by the CPD.

    Obviously, these guns are modified to full-auto.

    Last edited by Cat Mom; 08-05-2019 at 05:24 PM.

  21. #2331
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    ^

    Hearing that you'd think it was the 1920s/30s.

  22. #2332
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    So... about that DeGrasse Tyson tweet? That sort of cold disregard feels like a socially awkward thing to say... even his apology feels strange. Wtf..

  23. #2333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    So... about that DeGrasse Tyson tweet? That sort of cold disregard feels like a socially awkward thing to say... even his apology feels strange. Wtf..
    I mean...I think it was maybe a little dumb (as in, I'm not sure what the purpose of the tweet was), but it was 100% factual. I don't understand the outrage over it; everything he wrote was right. I mean, just look at Chicago. 17 people shot there Sunday morning and the first time I'm hearing about it is in this thread. We 100% respond to spectacle over raw numbers. I don't think that point lessens or reduces the tragedies that occurred this weekend. But I agree that it left me thinking "okay, and........?"

  24. #2334
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    I think it was definitely an unnecessary tweet from him. He may be right, but to write "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data" is incorrect. All those other causes of death also causes emotion - however, these mass shootings are a different kind of emotion because this was done with violence/hate/purpose. It's a different category, in my opinion.

  25. #2335
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    8chan being dropped by their security firm will only help advertise them to more of these absolute twats when a new firm takes over (and they will) and it'll be even stronger...that place is just the fucking worst! And now people are predictably blaming the violence on Video games and mental health...again -_-

  26. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyvicky View Post
    I think it was definitely an unnecessary tweet from him. He may be right, but to write "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data" is incorrect. All those other causes of death also causes emotion - however, these mass shootings are a different kind of emotion because this was done with violence/hate/purpose. It's a different category, in my opinion.
    also, we actively try to actually address the issues there, but we’re at an impasse with America’s unique problem with gun-powered murder sprees

  27. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    His last post on Twitter told Biden’s generation to “hurry up and die” (in response to Biden allegedly telling Millennials to stop complaining). But then the shooter went and killed a bunch of young people, most of them black.

    I live in Dayton.

    Yes, 6 of the 9 deaths were black people, the other 3 being white people. There were also both black people and white people who were injured by gunfire.







    ^ More full-length than the first surveillance video but with less focus on the moment the shooter is shot.

    And one with sound:





    Dayton police officers literally saved probably upwards of 20 lives, just barely grounding the shooter in time before he got to enter the bar Ned Peppers, where so many patrons sought shelter in a panic, with even more innocent souls who were already inside.

    In times especially like these, I look to every single sensationalist I've come across (online and otherwise) who has ever generalized police officers as being evil or racist with even more disgust. Grow up. Stop fueling fires of hatred. That form of prejudice is no different than that of a bona fide racist.

    Just the other day (somewhere in the country), a McDonald's employee refused service to EMTs because the employee thought they were cops. Once the EMTs clarified they weren't cops, the McDonald's employee continued to refuse servicing them, just because they had badges.

    (...)

    I've felt fairly numb to this happening literally so close to home. I've gone to the bar and the district since the shooting several times now, the last couple of times just minutes ago (to see the latest activity in the district with Trump visiting us today). The area is, of course, simply not the same as it was before this all happening, so I can't seem to connect myself emotionally. I know myself pretty well...I'll surely be playing emotional catch-up in the bar district, at the right time. I'd played dozens of shows there... I also have mostly dark or delicate memories already associated with the district. (This city is not my happy place.)

    But what had hit me instantly, straight through, almost bringing me to tears, was seeing the surveillance video I linked above. That very last-second moment where the cops intervened...seeing how this could have been so much worse. In seeing that moment, I become more than awake, and I realize my stomach has already sunk. I feel the same every time I watch it.

    Below are a couple of articles that shed light on the case and add perspective on the shooter, Connor Betts.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-Dayton.html

    https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68

    I bookmarked these two days ago to share with people, so there may be more new findings as of today. I'm trying to take a break from reading everything, but that's hard to do...

    For example, I just saw new surveillance camera footage from another bar in the district showing Connor, his sister, and their friend (a highlighted subject in the first article I linked above), just some hours before the shooting took place.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/06/us/su...bar/index.html

    Anyone who's been following along with the case has learned that Connor's mental health had been in real trouble for years, nevermind his political views (not to evade the fact they were extremely left-wing or extremist left-wing views--I don't claim to be left-wing or right-wing). I read somewhere he didn't want to seek help for the mental issues he knew he had because of the stigma around mental illness...I'm not sure he ever got clinically diagnosed with anything. It seemed clear he wasn't getting any help lately though. This all is always so terrible and tragic to learn.

    Reasonable gun reform needs to happen, but I mostly blame social media, smartphones (
    a gargantuan factor), and the 24/7 news cycle for the rise of mass shootings. To go further in (in one particular direction), there's been an over-saturation of fear-mongering and hate-mongering, of all likes, from both sides of the political aisle. The significance and consequences of that cannot be overstated.

    I could go on and on about how I feel on these things, but in short, in my honest and firsthand opinion: everyone's mental health has been progressively under siege for the last 10+ years, for any one of these reasons, or all of them combined.

    Even if gun reform happens, I'm sad to say this is still probably just the beginning with mass shootings (or mass murdering).
    Last edited by Amaro; 08-12-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  28. #2338
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    @Amaro , I marveled at the footage of the Dayton cops standing DIRECTLY IN THE LINE OF FIRE and shooting at the guy who was holding a weapon that was pretty much a fucking MACHINE GUN.

    Those cops are heroes. Totally.

    100-round magazine, LOOK AT THIS FUCKING THING!


  29. #2339
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    The owner of 8chan is getting hauled before Congress: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other...nes/ar-AAFtu5S

  30. #2340
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    "Rifle-Carrying Man Arrested After Causing Panic at Walmart in Missouri"

    https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/74976...rt-in-missouri

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