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Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

  1. #121
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    Sandy Hook Elementary Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by pakkopaita View Post
    The real problem with these shootings is the cops. You'd figure a mob composed of some of our heroic gun owners would be the first at the scene, diligently protecting our great nation and their fellow citizens from tragedy, utilizing all that vigorous training they had and stretching the whole of their mile-wide breadth of knowledge regarding firearms, but wh-whaattt? They're not the First at the scene? Why would they wait for the cops? If your home is broken into, there's no reason to expect you'd have time to call the fuckin' cops. No reason to expect that they would be any quicker to get to a school. The school should have been well stocked with AR-15s in the first place. Were the children not at target practice when the shooter came in with his two, tiny, cute little hand guns? I'm disappointed in you America. You think stuff like this would happen if we just took a little extra time to install firearm safety kits in our school halls? And if we relied a little less on the police and little more on our capable, level-headed, well-trained, background-checked, gun-owning citizens?
    Me thinks you've seen one too many hyper masculine American action movies.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes View Post
    Me thinks you've seen one too many hyper masculine American action movies.
    Yeah, I'm first in line to see those.

  3. #123
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    more people need to be talking about this:
    http://qz.com/37069/the-deadliest-sc...h-matters-now/

  4. #124
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    This seems relevant:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ng-school.html

    A man wielding a knife stabbed an elderly woman and then 22 children outside an elementary school in China on Friday before being subdued by security guards.


    At press time, none of the children have died.


    Knife violence (while still horrible) is less bad than gun violence.

  5. #125
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    Oh Jesus fucking christ. They really dont have a level they won't stoop to. I'm all for free speech and everything but for fuck sake, really?

  7. #127
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    If they do show up, I'm pretty sure it'll end up with some savage beatings of WBC members. There isn't anything they won't do for attention, it's sick.

  8. #128
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    Aren't they lawyers who just troll people into violating their rights which opens to the door to a lawsuit (and a bunch of money)?

  9. #129
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    I was going to avoid this topic mainly because I don't feel as well informed as many in this thread, and don't have the time to fight a flame war if one starts.
    This is like the third major shooting this year correct? Every time this happens gun control is immediately brought up, and nothing ever happens.
    The media swarms like flies, political leaders talk their bullshit, the victims are mourned and everyone moves on. If that sounds horribly cold and numb
    I'm sorry, I don't mean for it to. Why does anyone feel like this time things will be pushed further? Because the victims were children?
    This country loves its guns, and it makes a lot of money off of them legally and illegally. Guns to me seem to be like smoking, they've been made sexy,
    and all of the unfavorable aspects be damned. When that's the stand you take on a problem like this, incidents like this will happen.

    Does the mental state of the shooter really matter? If it does shouldn't the fact that he was able to do what he did be damning enough?
    Get hands on weapons, gather up ammo, go to a school and unload. Just think what someone of full mental capacity could do.

    As I said before I'm not as informed as others. I've been avoiding news coverage because whether they realize it or not the media is glorifying
    this guy in their own strange way. Now everybody knows who this guy was and everything else about him, he'll never be forgotten.

  10. #130
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    Sandy Hook Elementary Shooting

    This is the front page of the New York Times today:

    Attachment 245

  11. #131
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    Sandy Hook Elementary Shooting

    Also, this essay is very very good:

    http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Also, this essay is very very good:

    http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1
    I would so love to slap that little bastard in the face a bunch of times.

  13. #133
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    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...rld&id=8922260

    According to the NY Times: In past 6 mo, more Americans killed by guns than COMBINED total of dead Yanks in Iraq, Afghan & all terrorist acts of past 25.

  14. #134
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    One of the teachers hid her first graders in a cupboard, told the gunman they were in the gym, then got mercilessly gunned down. I don't know why this man did what he did but I'm sorry, I know I got flamed for this kind of talk earlier but there is absolutely no excuse I could ever find forgivable for what this man did. These were 5 year old kids. I'm glad this fucker killed himself but saddened by the fact that he could have got so much worse of a punishment if he were still alive. I need to stop reading about this story. Knowing that there are sick sadistic fucks in the world like this makes my blood boil

  15. #135
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    Sandy Hook Elementary Shooting

    ^^ If you were reading about this, you'd know that none of the kids were 5 years old (they were all 6 and 7) and that the shooter was 20, living at home with his mother, and likely had a severe personality disorder where he did not have a grasp of reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...rld&id=8922260

    According to the NY Times: In past 6 mo, more Americans killed by guns than COMBINED total of dead Yanks in Iraq, Afghan & all terrorist acts of past 25.
    And that's just counting the gang shootings in Chicago: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1602692.html
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 12-16-2012 at 01:35 PM.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    "You are one of the most disgusting people on Earth,@DearShirley. I wish it was you and your hate group instead of those beautiful children."

    My feelings exactly.

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    Honestly, if that threat was aimed at anyone and I mean anyone else, I would disapprove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnoorum View Post
    I'm glad this fucker killed himself but saddened by the fact that he could have got so much worse of a punishment if he were still alive. I need to stop reading about this story. Knowing that there are sick sadistic fucks in the world like this makes my blood boil
    You do see the irony of your statement, don't you?

    When it comes to the relationship between mental health and crime, I'm afraid most people are stuck in that kind of mode of thinking. And yet... if someone becomes suddenly violent or severely delusional because he has a brain tumor pushing against centers of his brain, would we be so quick to say: Oh, but he should have been able to stop himself? It seems that the more science understands about the human mind, the less understanding we become as a society. Madness used to be a perfectly reasonable excuse for commiting crimes, but now that we finally begin to understand the underlying processes, suddenly it no longer is.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakkopaita View Post
    Yeah, I'm first in line to see those.
    Oh, you were being serious? I'm sorry, your post was so full of hyperbole I thought you were taking the piss. Please tell me how having schools supplied with AR-15s would 1) prevent a future gun massacre and 2) instill a safe environment for children.

    Everyone needs to read this and please drop your fucking Rambo delusions.

    Carver described the children’s injuries, which he said ranged from at least two to 11 bullet wounds apiece."

  21. #141
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    Westboro Baptist "Chruch" needs to fucking get a grip already. You're not going to stop gay people and homosexuality by protesting things like this you fucking loser pricks. Besides, this shooting happened because of gay people? Not because of a deliquint piece of shit who spiralled out of control?

    Saying crap like that is like saying someone destroyed my neighbor's lawn because I stole some of my family member's bag of chips in the house. THERE'S NO CORELLATION!
    Last edited by Space Suicide; 12-16-2012 at 05:47 PM.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    Westboro Baptist "Chruch" needs to fucking get a grip already. You're not going to stop gay people and homosexuality by protesting things like this you fucking loser pricks. Besides, this shooting happened because of gay people? Not because of a deliquint piece of shit who spiralled out of control?

    Saying crap like that is like saying someone destroyed my neighbor's lawn because I stole some of my family member's bag of chips in the house. THERE'S NO CORELLATION!
    Hello everyone.

    For those disgusted with WBC (everyone I hope) Anonymous have just started to wage war on them for this - https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews
    have fun.

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by owinn View Post
    Hello everyone.

    For those disgusted with WBC (everyone I hope) Anonymous have just started to wage war on them for this - https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews
    have fun.
    One step ahead of you, boy-o.


  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    ^^ If you were reading about this, you'd know that none of the kids were 5 years old (they were all 6 and 7) and that the shooter was 20, living at home with his mother, and likely had a severe personality disorder where he did not have a grasp of reality.
    Granted I haven't read fully into it but in all honesty I don't want or need to. I heard someone killed a load of children and thats all I really need to hear to make a good judgement. I heard they were 5 somewhere but in all honesty that really doesn't matter. They're still kids regardless of a 2 year gap. I'm sorry if my views are offensive to some but, no. If he didn't kill himself he should have been locked away the rest of his life. In my eyes, you never harm another person unless it's in self defense or completely accidental. Anything else is unnaceptable. When I belong to a race thats quick to put a dog down simply for biting someone even though it could easily be trained out of them when in the right hands, I hardly think my views are all that controversial in the grand scheme of things.

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    So the message from all the stats posted here is that per capita death by gun is only inflated in America because of all the massacres they have?

    And that if they were to have gun control laws the only real difference they would make is the prevention of massacres?

  26. #146
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    there's a strange reactionary thing that happens. Whenever there's a tragedy tied to gun violence, the hardcore gun enthusiasts start buying a fuck ton of them because they're afraid that they're going to be banned, and there's laws in place that (for the most part) protect your right to continue owning a gun, even if it has been deemed no longer legal to sell.

    While we're at it and we're talking about these Westboro assholes... are there any laws against "accidentally" vomitting all over someone? There's got to be some legal loophole we can exploit that will result in these people being covered in puke.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 12-16-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  27. #147
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    Sandy Hook Elementary Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutz View Post
    And that if they were to have gun control laws the only real difference they would make is the prevention of massacres?
    For the record: We DO have gun control laws. Lots and lots of them. Most of them are state legislation and some are federal. Leviathant already mentioned the Brady Bill (federal). (The assault weapon ban expired in 1994.) Handguns were banned in Chicago for nearly 30 years until a SCOTUS opinion struck it down two years ago (during the ban, the gun homicide rate in Chicago was still the highest in the country). http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-28/j...ns?_s=PM:CRIME
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 12-16-2012 at 11:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Also, this essay is very very good:

    http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1
    What I think everyone is missing in this article, that seems to making the rounds, is the important subtext of what is actually happening to this child.

    It's easy to see the struggle the mother has in dealing with him, especially she portrays him as this sort of out of control alien kind of thing. She portrays him as somewhat sub-human. In this story we repeatedly see her unwittingly alienate her son. Partially by subjugating him, especially from the family, and aprtially through a long series of other things. This kid has grown up and developed his mind on a revolving door of medications and drugs and all kinds of things. His mother has made a point to micromanage this guy's life. He's not a robot, he's a lot closer to a regular dude than her writing lets on.

    His reaction to the pants situation is very strong, sure, but what kind of mom is trying to tell her 13 Year-old son what kind of pants to wear? If he's having academic and social difficulties, then why is he in a school with a strict dress code to begin with. That age is a time when people seek a sense of identity and individuality. It's always a time of rebellion. There's a glimpse of that getting boxed in, here. All that combined with the drugs....

    I'm speaking from experience. I know a lot of people who grew up like this. I grew up like that, and the way that the parents handle it has significant impact on the outcome. I've seen the kid in an overly structured enviornment, and they're caged animal, like this one and I've seen the kid in a more understanding environment, where they grow and get a long fine. This is a frustrating read for me.

    I guess my point is that it wasn't the gun laws or the fucking aspergers or any of that shit that brought Adam Lanza to where he was when he shot those kids. It was the whole environment. It was the same thing with James Holmes. Both were people who felt increasingly alone and separate from the world. They probably experienced very little understanding and very little compassion. I think those are the solutions for the future: Understanding. Compassion.
    Last edited by Wretchedest; 12-17-2012 at 01:20 AM.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    While we're at it and we're talking about these Westboro assholes... are there any laws against "accidentally" vomitting all over someone? There's got to be some legal loophole we can exploit that will result in these people being covered in puke.
    From what I've read today, Anonymous is working on digital puke...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnoorum View Post
    Granted I haven't read fully into it but in all honesty I don't want or need to. I heard someone killed a load of children and thats all I really need to hear to make a good judgement. I heard they were 5 somewhere but in all honesty that really doesn't matter. They're still kids regardless of a 2 year gap. I'm sorry if my views are offensive to some but, no. If he didn't kill himself he should have been locked away the rest of his life. In my eyes, you never harm another person unless it's in self defense or completely accidental. Anything else is unnaceptable. When I belong to a race thats quick to put a dog down simply for biting someone even though it could easily be trained out of them when in the right hands, I hardly think my views are all that controversial in the grand scheme of things.

    Meh. Our justice system and systems in general should be focused on preventing things like this and being pragmatic and protecting ALL citizens. Including those convicted. What good is simply punishing someone? Punishment is ultimately meaningless if it exists in and of itself. Incarceration should have purpose other than making people feel better about their moral narrative. I am not saying people should feel differently but rather, we should not allow our courts and incarceration system be based on satisfying the needs of those feelings. (Which definitely is the case.. that and filling wallets)

    I think this moment should make everyone wonder about the nature of our justice system and its relation to mental health. In response to Elke, I think that the more we understand the human brain the more people have to double down on their previous understanding of the mind and accountability because things get more complicated as the truth comes out, naturally.

    As we continue to obsess over ambiguous ideas about justice and what it means to be "human", we are completely ignoring certain conversations that could be good for us.

    In trying to understand exactly what was wrong with this man and what would be the best way to handle people like him, we are not trying to excuse, forgive or even justify his behavior. It literally just does not make sense to do otherwise if you are serious about making this country a better place.

    "Fuck that guy, he kills kids let him rot in jail" is a perfectly fine view I'm sure most of us share and anyone grieving deserves to be allowed to express that sentiment. I just can't help but think the conversation doesn't move beyond that most the time, and that is why our insane justice/prison/industrial complex and how we deal with mental health are not really changing for the better. From what I see most people cannot even begin to fathom the implications of someone who is operating entirely differently mentally than themselves. Labeling these people evil monsters and calling it a day literally does no good whatsoever in the long run. You cannot expect people to act in accordance with society when their minds are functioning in a way that does not allow them to.

    I'm not saying individuals shouldn't feel the way you do ( I feel it as well). I guess I just mean that the fact that our courts function along that same train of thought in the year 2012 is slightly horrifying to me considering all the advances we've made in the fields of biology and psychology.
    Last edited by littlemonkey613; 12-17-2012 at 07:30 AM.

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