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Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

  1. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Oh, he will.
    I try not to put that sort of energy out there.

    But he will.
    He'll sadly be so protected by the GOP that no one will even be able to get near him. I truly would love to see some WorldStar level videos of this little cunt getting the shit beat out of him mercifully. Maybe some skateboarding saint will catch him on the sidewalk someday and fuck him up with his deck in the name of Anthony Huber.

  2. #2522
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    That jury just made it clear to right-wing nuts that you can get away with hunting protestors.

    After this verdict he won't be the last one, shit's about to get a lot worse.

  3. #2523
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    He immediately left the courtroom and went home to Illinois today. His defense attorney said Rittenhouse just wants to lay low and get a normal life. He said the prior defense attorneys were fired for using Rittenhouse for a “cause.” The attorney said the kid is getting therapy and has PTSD; he said lots of people are questioning the validity of that, but he can confirm that Rittenhouse broke down many times during preparation meetings. The attorney said he, personally, questions the value of bringing guns of any kind to protests, he doesn’t see the value, but being a defense attorney is his job.

    I think the jury put a lot of thought and effort into this. One juror asked to take the jury instructions home yesterday (36 pages), and the judge approved (the defense objected). The jury asked to review the video of when Rittenhouse put down the fire extinguisher. This was the exact moment the prosecution asserted that Rittenhouse lifted his rifle with both hands and pointed the rifle in the direction of Ziminski. It’s really hard to see any detail in the video, even enhanced. That was key evidence as to whether Rittenhouse provoked. Evidently, the jury could not detect any evidence of that and detected evidence of the opposite.

    Yes, the reality is that the judge weighed toward the defense during the trial, not allowing pertinent evidence, etc.

    But the bottom line is that this will allow people of ALL colors, including protesters, to open carry and to use their weapon against anyone who “threatens” them, in Wisconsin. It’s - unfortunately - opening the door to the OK Corral.

    Rittenhouse is going to have a hell of a time getting a job, getting into any school, etc. He says he wants to be a nurse, but he apparently doesn’t even have a GED. Rep. Matt Gaetz talked about offering Rittenhouse some kind of intern job. Except interns make practically zero money and can barely live day to day, particularly in the District.

    My husband predicts this kid will end up in trouble again and the next time he won’t be so lucky (like OJ Simpson). I suspect my husband is right.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2021 at 01:12 AM.

  4. #2524
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    Personally I’d consider taking an assault rifle to a protest that is nothing to do with you is provocation in itself?

    EDIT sorry just read back through the thread and I guess this isn’t considered provocation at all and is legal
    Last edited by WorzelG; 11-20-2021 at 03:55 AM.

  5. #2525
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    Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

    an artist iíve followed for years now posted thursday evening that heís been sentence to 12 months in prison for a non violent crime. heís supportive of my work but i feel like i donít know him well enough to inquire about the details. heís said in the past about the arrest that he got into a drunken argument with a cop. i canít seem to comprehend why that would deserve a whole year in jail. but a gun grabbing kid who took actual lives gets to go home to his momma like he did nothing. even the abulance driver who killed my mother (and almost me) got jail time and that was an accident/negligence (man slaughter).

    i donít get it. i feel like killing people shouldnít be partisan. their stupid bible even says ďthou shall notĒ and not only do they do it, they fucking celebrate it. all the ways they want to justify it do not work for me. if kyle was acting in self defense, so was everyone else. he went there to commit criminal activity just like his victims. not guilty my fucking ass.

  6. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    He immediately left the courtroom and went home to Illinois today. His defense attorney said Rittenhouse just wants to lay low and get a normal life. He said the prior defense attorneys were fired for using Rittenhouse for a “cause.” The attorney said the kid is getting therapy and has PTSD; he said lots of people are questioning the validity of that, but he can confirm that Rittenhouse broke down many times during preparation meetings. The attorney said he, personally, questions the value of bringing guns of any kind to protests, he doesn’t see the value, but being a defense attorney is his job.
    He's going on Tucker on Monday and has been participating in some sort of Tucker / Fox News produced documentary of the trial so I'll believe all this when I see it. The question about the breakdowns is were they from a place of regret and understanding he made a series of bad decisions that led to the deaths of two people and serious injuries to another...or were they just him feeling sorry for himself and the prospect of spending a long time in prison. I have my own thoughts about that but only he knows for sure. Though, going on Tucker Carlson 72 hours after the verdict is telling.

  7. #2527
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  8. #2528
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    Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

    someone i know posted this. itís fake but iím hoping they donít find out and show up there waiting for their buddy kyle to come wave at them. nothing says christmas like a child murderer.

  9. #2529
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    Everyone should become familiar with the Mulford Act in California, aka “the Panther Act.”








    In other words:

    White people with open carry: AOK

    Black people with open carry: Criminals
    Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2021 at 12:45 PM.

  10. #2530
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    A great listen, which outlines said history: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts...rfect-gun-show

  11. #2531
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    The McMichael / Bryan trial has gone to the jury. They better not fuck this up.

  12. #2532
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    "Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim, after the choices that he made, do not reflect the reality of what brought Arbery to Satilla Shores. In his khaki shorts, with no socks to cover his long dirty, toenails."

    Yep, I'm done with the internets today...

  13. #2533
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    Im really discouraged and worried that the jury is still deliberating. This should have been just done. This is insane.

    And yea, throwing in an aside about the victimís personal hygiene or whatever that was? Has she seen her client? Guy looks like a drunk mall Santa who has been asked politely (but firmly) on several occasions to please leave the Chuck E Cheese.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 11-23-2021 at 11:25 PM.

  14. #2534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    And yea, throwing in an aside about the victimís personal hygiene or whatever that was?
    That was dehumanizing the victim. Because thatís what racists do. Racists depict black people as dirty and disgusting, and there was no way he was out ďrunningĒ when he was really out there being a criminal like all black people.

  15. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    The McMichael / Bryan trial has gone to the jury. They better not fuck this up.
    A whole lotta ‘guilty’ in that there split verdict. All guilty of felony murder. Seems like they, in fact, did not fuck this up.

  16. #2536
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    Jurors find all three defendants guilty of murder.

  17. #2537
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    Fuck. Yes.

  18. #2538
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    lot of people saying the parents should also be charged and that seems to be an argument that I've not seen before.

  19. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    lot of people saying the parents should also be charged and that seems to be an argument that I've not seen before.
    I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.

  20. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.
    i donít know. gun safety should definitely have more laws and requirements including accountability for the weapon you own.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #2541
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.
    fair point, but also they aren't letting him talk.
    The motive remains unknown as the suspect has refused to talk. Police say he has no prior record. They said they were searching the suspect's cellphone, school video footage and social media posts for any evidence of a possible motive. "The person that's got the most insight and the motive is not talking," said Bouchard, according to the Associated Press.

    Undersheriff Mike McCabe said the suspect's parents visited their son where he's being held and advised him not to talk to investigators, as is his right. Police must seek permission from a juvenile suspect's parents or guardian to speak with them, he added.
    I know it's their right but it's suspect at best.

    Also:
    There were signs, says parentA parent of one the students in the school Robin Redding said her son, Treshan Bryant had stayed home Tuesday as he had heard threats that there could be a shooting. "This couldn't be just random," she said.


    Bryant said he had heard unconfirmed threats "for a long time now" about plans for a shooting, reported the Associated Press. Bryant said he texted several younger cousins in the morning and they said they didn't want to go to school, and he got a bad feeling. He asked his mom if he could do his assignments online.

  22. #2542
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    i don’t know. gun safety should definitely have more laws and requirements including accountability for the weapon you own.
    Sure, I agree we need more gun owner accountability but the prosecutors are bound by the current laws on the books. At 15 he would be legally allowed to use the gun with supervision and I don't think we know enough about the family's gun storage habits but assuming it was locked up, I have a feeling the kid would have had access to it if he really wanted it (aka "self defense in the home"). I'm not sure that alone would meet a criminal threshold in the eyes of a jury.

    I think there is also prejudice against the parents because 1. the kid isn't talking and 2. they denied permission and hired a lawyer so people assume they're covering for him. So just as we hear so much about what to do when the cops want to talk to you ("shut the fuck up") they're doing just that and that alone isn't an indication of their guilt.

    With all that said, if there is evidence they were somehow criminally responsible...charge the hell out of them.

  23. #2543
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Sure, I agree we need more gun owner accountability but the prosecutors are bound by the current laws on the books. At 15 he would be legally allowed to use the gun with supervision and I don't think we know enough about the family's gun storage habits but assuming it was locked up, I have a feeling the kid would have had access to it if he really wanted it (aka "self defense in the home"). I'm not sure that alone would meet a criminal threshold in the eyes of a jury.

    I think there is also prejudice against the parents because 1. the kid isn't talking and 2. they denied permission and hired a lawyer so people assume they're covering for him. So just as we hear so much about what to do when the cops want to talk to you ("shut the fuck up") they're doing just that and that alone isn't an indication of their guilt.

    With all that said, if there is evidence they were somehow criminally responsible...charge the hell out of them.
    first paragraph: Rittenhouse all over again: the laws on the books don't fit the crimes which is a real pain. Some of the laws are written so specifically that you can just say 'ah ha! loophole' and that's it. (very reductive and I apologize to those who know more than I about law)

    second paragraph: that asshole in Florida whose parents covered for him definitely left a bad feeling with a lot of people.

    third paragraph: see first.

  24. #2544
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    first paragraph: Rittenhouse all over again: the laws on the books don't fit the crimes which is a real pain. Some of the laws are written so specifically that you can just say 'ah ha! loophole' and that's it. (very reductive and I apologize to those who know more than I about law)
    It very well could be in the sense that the parents skirt could charges even if there is evidence they were criminally negligent because of gaps in the law. Keep in mind we're talking about Michigan here: not the most loosey-goosey when it comes to gun laws but it's certainly not California or New Jersey either.

    second paragraph: that asshole in Florida whose parents covered for him definitely left a bad feeling with a lot of people.
    For sure. Apparently the kid was very online and his behavior was such that the parents met with school officials the morning of the shooting. I think at the very least they're guilty of bad judgement for giving him access to a gun.

  25. #2545
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    Cenk Uygur is SUCH a mood right now.

  26. #2546
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    The kid planned the murder days ahead of time in his journal, and posted stuff to Facebook ahead of the shooting saying he was gonna bring death to Oxford.

    His dad bought him the handgun and three magazines on Black Friday. You have to register guns in Michigan; it’s illegal for anyone younger than 21 to own a handgun.


  27. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The kid planned the murder days ahead of time in his journal, and posted stuff to Facebook ahead of the shooting saying he was gonna bring death to Oxford.

    His dad bought him the handgun and three magazines on Black Friday. You have to register guns in Michigan; it’s illegal for anyone younger than 21 to own a handgun.
    This is all gross and they both seems to be scumbags, particularly the father, I'm just not hopeful they'll be found guilty of anything unless they have concrete evidence there was prior knowledge.

    There are ways to get around the gun law. As for age, the kid can legally own the handgun at 18 so long as he received a purchasing permit from the state AND the handgun was purchased from a private seller. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the age 21 restriction on handguns only applies if A. the seller is federally licensed dealer and B. for issuance of a concealed carry permit. Dad will say it was registered to him until chud junior turns 18 at which time he'd sell it to him as a private seller. That seems like a huge batshit crazy loophole but also perfectly legal.

    Edit: and to be perfectly clear, I don't really disagree with what Cenk Uyger is saying, which is "if it's your gun and your kid uses it to commit murder, you should be charged as accessory", just that I'm not really expecting anything more than a misdemeanor gun something-or-other out of this. Charges are one thing but a guilty verdict is another and I'm just not very optimistic on that. I'll happily be proven wrong, though.
    Last edited by cdm; 12-03-2021 at 10:10 AM.

  28. #2548
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    This is all gross and they both seems to be scumbags, particularly the father, I'm just not hopeful they'll be found guilty of anything unless they have concrete evidence there was prior knowledge.

    There are ways to get around the gun law. As for age, the kid can legally own the handgun at 18 so long as he received a purchasing permit from the state AND the handgun was purchased from a private seller. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the age 21 restriction on handguns only applies if A. the seller is federally licensed dealer and B. for issuance of a concealed carry permit. Dad will say it was registered to him until chud junior turns 18 at which time he'd sell it to him as a private seller. That seems like a huge batshit crazy loophole but also perfectly legal.
    That’s not how I understand Michigan law. I actually have a handgun from a Michigan*. If I lived in Michigan, it would require me to obtain a license and permit. Federal law prevents anyone under 21 from buying a handgun, so the kid couldn’t directly purchase it because he (a) couldn’t get a Michigan license and (b) can’t buy one legally under Federal law. If the kid’s Facebook post and journal entries make it clear that mom and dad gave kid the gun for Christmas (as the mom posted on HER Facebook page), then they transferred ownership to the kid.

    * see 8, I actually inherited the handgun. In Michigan, I’d still need a license.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(42y...ame=mcl-28-422

    “Charged” and “found guilty” are two different things, yes. As are civil lawsuits.

    His parents could now be up against FEDERAL charges.

    The father isn’t more “scummy” than the mom:

    Last edited by allegro; 12-03-2021 at 12:43 PM.

  29. #2549
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    https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-an...gun-unlicensed

    If his dad owns the gun he can gift it or sell it to his son at 18 as a private individual. The son would have to obtain a purchasing permit and license but he can legally own the gun at 18. What he can't do until 21 is buy the same gun from a federally licensed dealer. The federal government is not regulating the handgun so much as they're regulating the dealer with a federal license to sell. All this is moot, of course, because the kid isn't 18 yet and he'll probably never see the outside of a concrete cell, save for the trips to and from court.

    Edit: and as it turns out...



    Hopefully these charges stick.
    Last edited by cdm; 12-03-2021 at 12:26 PM.

  30. #2550
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    Yes, Dad can do that when kid turned 18, but kid would still have to get a Michigan license and then register said gun. But from all of the evidence presented so far, it appears that the parents presented the gun and mags to the kid as an early Christmas present. In other words, transferred ownership to the kid. He posted pics of himself in his room with the gun, and in his pocket, and saying he just got the gun. If it’s “his,” it requires the kid to obtain a license and registration. Which the kid could not legally do. If it’s “dad’s,” there’s apparently no Michigan law requiring guns to be locked up. But the kid didn’t say, on social media, “this is my dad’s gun.” He, at least, was under the distinct impression that it was his - the kid’s - gun.

    The kid was apparently being bullied at school. If the parents KNEW this and got him a gun, now there’s hella premeditation, too.




    Meanwhile, media keeps posting grade school pics of this kid. Wtf.







    Last edited by allegro; 12-03-2021 at 01:11 PM.

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