Active Member
Active Member
When is this all going to end? I know the answer which is never. There's too much money involved. It makes me sad. In my younger years I was hoping we would advance as a society & put stuff like this in the rearview mirror. I won't live to see it happen as the hour glass is running out more so than most people. Whenever some gun nut gets in my face (used to happen a lot at work) all I would say is "dead babies in New Town". That usually shut them up for awhile. I used to be live & let live but I got more militant after New Town. The psychic pain from that one continues to this day. I feel so bad for the parents that have to live the rest of their lives with that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.Originally Posted by BRoswell
tempus est umbra in mente
All you have to do is have a maddening conversation with a gun nut of above-average intelligence to know this is never going to stop. The pro-gun argument is mired in semantics and intentional obfuscation. By the time you actually drag the discussion around to the topic at hand, the goal posts have already been moved several times before they were shoved up your ass, and you were too annoyed to even notice.
Bite me
There is ZERO reasoning with gun nuts. Even in the face of Sandy Hook and Marjory Stoneman Douglas and every other school shooting.
Their response is always: “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”
We have always been a very violent country. And it’s only going to get worse.
Throbbing Member
"It's too early to talk about gun laws in situations like these." - Countless politicians. OK, let's discuss it more in situations like Columbine, or Virginia Tech, or Sandy Hook. Or is it too early for those, too, still?
Don't gun sales usually go up after these tragedies as well? We have a gun range in town here that seems people lust over. It's pretty sick...
I was nobody. Nothing.
What is it that you want, though?
I'm down for background checks and such, sure. And it'd be nice to limit battlefield weapons.
But when people start talking about limiting access to guns for average citizens? HELL no.
80-90% of gun crimes are committed with illegally owned/obtained guns.
What am i to do if someone runs up in our house? Kung Fu?
We've got guns.
We're leftists with guns, over here.
Edit: and i REALLY don't care about guns. I'm not a "gun nut." I've never fired a handgun.
But i goddamn sure know where the shotgun is, and how to use it. I've known that for 32 years.
Last edited by elevenism; 05-14-2022 at 09:55 PM.
Bite me
I have two handguns. A Ruger .22 revolver and a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum. I have a FOID card, since 1987. I’m really good at shooting. I’ve been target shooting for 35 years.
I’ve been target shooting with a bunch a liberals. Who have lots of guns. GLOCKS and Desert Eagles and AK-47s and all KINDS of guns. Liberal as fuck. Biggest computer nerds in history.
What do I want?
Shut down Armslist. Federal background check in all states. I willingly subject myself to training and a waiting list and background checks. Because that’s the way it should be, to try to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have guns. I also believe in a FEDERAL law limiting the size of magazines to TWELVE. And I believe each state should invoke Federal laws after 2 strikes for crimes involving guns.
But, we are a REPUBLIC. This means that each state has its own constitution. And its own gun laws. State laws are generally far more powerful than federal. By design. Our founding fathers intended the federal government to have limited control. People forget that this is often a mental health issue. Or a security issue.
Ever notice that mass shootings NEVER happen in urban schools? Because urban schools have metal detectors and security. Suburban and rural schools are too worried about “mah freedoms.”
I wanna get my Concealed Carry License. So do many of my women friends. My sister in law has one, carries a small 9 mm semi auto in Michigan. But there’s a problem: No reciprocity in other states. And venues that ban CCLs. So bad guys with guns travel wherever they want; but legal, licensed gun holders are hindered or barred.
If I have a CCL and want to carry downtown, there have been nearly 400 armed carjackings in Chicago in the last year. You think any of those criminals legally carry? No. But I can’t, because the venue where I’m going has a sign on the door barring guns. Even legally carried guns. The guy who bursts in illegally? Whatever. We are at his mercy. If I had MY gun? I’d shoot the fucker dead. Legally. But I can’t carry my gun.
All the gun laws in the world won’t stop all this shooting, just like all the abortion laws in the world won’t stop abortion.
We can allow guns in the hands of the good guys (who can perhaps protect us from the bad guys). But, disarm people? You can PRINT a ghost gun via a 3D printer. Disarming Americans is about as realistic as banning abortion.
People with standing Orders of Protection against them in Illinois have their FOID cards suspended so they can’t buy a gun or ammo in Illinois; BUT, they can buy guns and ammo on Armslist from a private seller and then go shoot and kill their spouse. And THIS HAS HAPPENED. Also, gang members with felony records regularly use Armslist to buy guns from private sellers; one was used to kill a Chicago Police Sargent.
2A people don’t care; they won’t budge, AT ALL. EVER.
So maybe we need to wake up and start putting metal detectors everywhere. Everywhere.
I just got back from “Stars on Ice” at the United Center. My purse had to be a very small size, searched, and we all had to go through metal detectors. For a show featuring Olympic figure skaters. And that’s okay.
Edit: but it wouldn’t have helped in Buffalo
Last edited by allegro; 05-15-2022 at 11:44 AM.
I was nobody. Nothing.
^^^
Church
Throbbing Member
These gun owner arguments centered on the notion that gun laws are useless because mass shooters won't follow these laws are ridiculous. So, by that line of thinking, I guess you think we should have no laws? Make rape legal since rapists won't follow the law, etc.? Using that theory, you cannot cherry-pick which laws won't be followed: It's really all or nothing. So are you going to simply state we should have no laws based on the notion that criminals don't follow the law?
Bite me
Exactly.
Every law is therefore useless or a slippery slope, to them.
Also, ever notice that they NEVER come to the defense of BLACK PEOPLE legally owning guns?!? EVER???
EVERY case of a cop killing a black person even IN THEIR OWN HOME who legally owned a gun “must have been because that person was doing something wrong.”
White people? VIOLATION OF THEIR RIGHT TO 2A!!!
Bite me
So, the Buffalo shooting, per reports:
Shooter guy was wearing head-to-toe body armor, including helmet.
Retired police sargent was working security at the door, armed.
Shooter guy shoots and kills at least 3 people in the parking lot, then walks in and starts picking off black people and spewing racist filth.
Armed security shoots guy in the chest, but shooter guy is wearing that body armor. Guy shoots and kills security.
Shooter eventually removes his body armor, put down his AR-15 and turns himself in to cops.
Police and DoJ have deemed this a hate crime.
The shooter live-streamed the shooting. He’s 18, and traveled from hours away to the predominantly black area in Buffalo, NY just to kill black people.
He had a manifesto.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/15/u...day/index.html
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said the AR-15 used in the shooting was purchased legally in a gun store in New York state but was illegally modified with a high-capacity magazine.
"What has made this so lethal, and so devastating for this community, was the high-capacity magazine that would have had to have been purchased elsewhere, that's not legal in the state of New York," she said.
Last edited by allegro; 05-15-2022 at 11:52 AM.
Active Member
Cops should have done something right for once and pulled the trigger.
Bite me
Report I linked said he (shooter) actually took off his body armor and put down his gun.
Had the shooter been a BLACK GUY, I suspect the cops would have pumped him full of lead.
In this case, they probably took him for lunch at Burger King.
Only By Night
Someone's friend was invited to his discord server where he is trying to buy and sell armor, and even has posts of him planning it out months in advance. They sent the posts to the FBI, but it is so haunting reading the things he was posting. He also has racist words painted on the shaft of his gun...
In the video, he finds someone cowering on the floor and he actually says sorry to them and that is when the video cuts out shortly after... The person was white apparently that he spared.
What gets me the most is, you find someone that just shot up a supermarket, and they are patting him down as he stands there like he stole a fucking candy bar.
This will never end. Guns are so embedded into the bedrock of this society, I'm surprised a gun isn't on the flag somewhere.
Edit: Apparently, Virginia Sorenson’s name was reportedly written on the shooters gun from the Waukesha parade massacre. There are plenty of photos at this point.
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 05-15-2022 at 03:52 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I'm talking about sensible reform, and coming at a very serious issue and addressing it as such with cutting the cute bullshit, semantics, and coy nonsense out of the equation. I feel like owning a rifle or a handgun or two is fine; depending on situation it could be considered common sense to have some high powered self defense.
But nobody needs an arsenal that could supply an army with stuff that looks like it belongs on a battlefield or in a video game. Nobody needs 50 thousand rounds of ammunition. If you're going to get a gun you should be psychologically evaluated. But the gun lobby views any reform as a slippery slope, or at least they project that perception to their constituents. That's why they dragged their feet on getting rid of bumper stocks that basically turn a semi-auto into a fully-auto.
And at this point, can we please tell the impassioned "hobbyists" to shut up already? We get it. You think guns are fun. We'll address your concerns later, FFS
Throbbing Member
Not even 24 hours later: Authorities: 1 killed, 4 hurt in California church shooting (Laguna Hills apparently).
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...A1VKm-Ln4ZgtJQ
Update: A Taiwanese congregation was in the church at the time of the shooting, said Undersheriff Jeff Hallock.
Last edited by Ruined; 05-15-2022 at 06:09 PM.
Active Member
Is it sad, that when I see these headlines these days I just think "at this point, this isn't even news anymore".
24.24.2.2866
We've become desensitized to how normal it's all become, it's like hearing about a traffic collision or some petty theft at this point.
It's like "oh.. really? is that the worst thing that's happened today? pfft... that's small potatoes!"
Active Member
It's not small potatoes.....I just expect it now, I guess.
But this'll play out like all the others have. There might be some talk in the news cycle, nothing will be done, and it will happen again.
And when it does, the cycle will repeat in an entirely predictable way.
Bite me
Buffalo shooter subscribed to the “great replacement” theory. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/10990...acement-theory
It’s everywhere, really:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gop-ca...ideo-watchdog/
It’s behind their anti-abortion rhetoric:
https://www.adl.org/blog/misogyny-is...iracy-theory-0
Focusing on the GUN in Buffalo is all wrong. Every news station should be focusing on the fact that this was a HATE CRIME. By a TERRORIST.Camus’ promotion of white reproduction positions women as both the problem and the solution, and rests on the premise that white women and their falling birth rates are contributing to the destruction and replacement of the white race. As pointed out by Belew, white supremacist magazines responded to the women’s liberation movement by framing abortion and contraception (as well as immigration) as part of the strategy to destroy the white race. Those who believe in the “Great Replacement” are invested in white women having more children and non-white women having fewer children. The wishes of those women are irrelevant.
And the ADL is saying that this is only getting worse all the time.
Last edited by allegro; 05-24-2022 at 03:20 PM.
armed leftist
Last week my partner and I took a 3 hr certification in stopping severe bleeds from GSW, stabbings/ punctures, accidents etc. It was so educational that, by the end of the class, I felt reasonably confident that I could render aid to someone with a severe bleed, should that unthinkable situation arise. I'm an armed leftist (duh) and this stuff is just part and parcel of being a responsible gun owner (allegro knows whatsup). But it also has the added benefit of giving me the feeling of one little iota of control over this terrifying and decaying society. I highly recommend it. I used a local entity but there's a nationwide Stop the Bleed training program.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
(Unused symbol)
It's now 14 students and 1 teacher DEAD. FUCK. This stupid fucking country.
Edit 7:40pm: 18 students, 3 adults dead.
Last edited by cdm; 05-24-2022 at 06:41 PM.
Throbbing Member
I hate this place.
24.24.2.2866
Mood.
Flaccid Member
I think that Americans specifically cannot handle gun ownership. The US is a deeply, and (imo) uniquely fucked up country, with a truly sick culture in general, let alone with regards to guns. However, I think it's a bit silly to assert that the existence of guns alone is the cause of gun massacres - people don't see a rifle and immediately think "hey, I should use this to murder a bunch of children!" Humans don't work that way - if we did, we never would have developed civilization. I believe that it would be much more productive for the US to address the reasons people commit gun violence - ie, poverty, mental illness, far-right radicalization - and try and address those. None of this will happen, of course. We all know that the US government would sooner watch a million more children be shot to death than lift a single fucking finger to actually help anybody at all.
(Unused symbol)
Are you an NRA plant? Because this is the same 2A bullshit we hear spewed from deranged, gun-toting American idiots.
Flaccid Member
Buddy if I was with the NRA I wouldn't be saying that Americans should not have guns.
(Unused symbol)
The NRA uses mental illness as cover to protect their “god given” right to arm themselves to the teeth. Yes, all of those issues contribute to the problem. But ALL countries and cultures deal with mental illness and poverty and radicalization of one form or another yet we are the ones with near constant mass shootings. Fix the variable AND the contributing factors. We fucking know guns aren’t the only problem. You’re not breaking any goddamn news to us.
Throbbing Member
For any of that to work we'd have to eliminate use of the word gun or anything like it (bang bang stick, thing that goes pew pew, etc.) from the discussion. The second the word is said or alluded to any attempt to develop any meaningful policy disappears. The Gun lobby has too many people in their pocket, in Florida for example there's a bit of a notorious lady representing the gun lobby that will sit in the audience. If anything remotely associated with guns comes up they all look to her for some screwed up gladiator style thumbs up/down before proceeding with their vote or even allowing discussion. Even after Parkland they couldn't even have a discussion about it being a variable, completely shut down.
We somehow need to get amped up and generate support for identifying and addressing the mental health crisis that is causing everyone but white males to, I dunno, jaywalk or take bags of ice from the new cooler instead of emptying the old one first. If the conversation can be shaped around that perhaps we can get somewhere.
Unfortunately the nefarious interests surrounding anything healthcare related in this country exist too. Even though the pharmaceutical industry would love to crank out more $3k/month pills (personal experience), insurance companies don't want to be on the hook for those additional costs, and whenever spending billions of tax dollars is talked about to directly help average citizens, suddenly there's concern over the budget again after we cut taxes on the wealthy ($500k+) by something like $150 billion. Then there's the for profit prison system enjoying each and every one of these people that they can capture. Somewhere out there is a private prison exec upset they don't get to sell the taxpayer a platinum package to house a max security inmate like this dude from Uvalde.
Holy cow that got long winded, sorry. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Edit, I'm not trying to come off as a 2A apologist stating mental health is the only issue here. I think there should be several laws attempting to curb the insane extent of items apparently covered by a couple of sentences some dudes 250 years wrote. However our current approach is to just say stuff to convince our side the other is being unreasonable then throw hands up and hope things settle before the next shooting. Even if we could only gain any momentum on a single component perhaps it's better than we've been able to do to this point, wishful thinking for sure.
Moar edits: 19 children and 2 teachers dead. Article is saying he used a Rifle (gee I wonder what model/style), Body Armor, and fired HUNDREDS of rounds. FUCK
Last edited by ekrekel; 05-24-2022 at 11:18 PM.
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