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Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

  1. #2641
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    No, this keeps happening - and will keep happening - because the majority of 'Muricans believes it's their God given right to own a gun.

    Oh wait, many guns. The more, the better. And anything that could restrict that God given right, like a background check or a registry, is a big no no because the gov'ment cannot look into its citizens like that. And limit their access to ALL THE GUNS.

    Please note that nothing that will happen in 'Murica will change these blessed folks' mind. Because Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed. Today was Part 2. And there will be Part 3, 4, 5...

    As someone outside the US of A, it's getting really hard to feel sorry for people who don't help themselves. But my empathy does go to the little ones who died and to the little ones who lived. They will live with that for all their lives now.

    edit: by the way, today's was the Covid-19 pandemic's fault, because it was soooooo hard on all the teenagers. I heard it on ABC so it must be true!
    Last edited by marodi; 05-24-2022 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #2642
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    Dear Vancouver families,


    We are deeply saddened by the tragic news of the school shooting in Texas. It is difficult to comprehend this senseless and heartbreaking event. We feel connected to the students, staff, families and communities who have lost loved ones in this tragedy, as well as in past school shootings.


    Providing safe and supportive schools for our students is so important. We send our students to school each day expecting them to receive loveand care. We want them to be happy and to fill their day with learning adventures. Tragedies like today’s shooting remind us of the fragility of life.


    We all want our children to be able to go to school safely and flourish. We are proactive and have clear plans and procedures to deal with threats and other emergency situations. VPS also has professionally trained security personnel who have a presence at all schools. To learn more about our safety procedures, please visit our website. It takes all of us to be diligent in keeping our schools safe.


    If your family needs support, consider the following resources or please reach out to our staff.


    In addition, we recommend visiting these websites:
    School safety and crisis, National Association of School Psychologists
    Talking to children about violence, National Association of School Psychologists
    see, what's difficult to comprehend is how this keeps happening and you people keep saying "wow we can't figure this out. what could we do to stop this? well, we've tried nothing so *throws hands in the air*."

  3. #2643
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    No, this keeps happening - and will keep happening - because the majority of 'Muricans believes it's their God given right to own a gun.
    No, the majority does not believe this. Gun ownership is under 45%, assault style weaponry less than that. The majority wants stricter gun laws and restrictions. The vast majority wants stricter background checks. THE MAJORITY wants this to change.

  4. #2644
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    See above as a rebuttal to anyone who suggests more guards or "resource officers" are the solution to any of this. Similarly an armed guard at the Buffalo supermarket was shot and killed by the shooter. More guns are no match for a shooter with an AR and body armor with the element of surprise. And they want to arm teachers. I wouldn't fucking trust my kid's homeroom teacher with a gun...and that's not at all a knock on her or her judgement. She's a fucking teacher not trained infantry.

    Edit: we as a society lionize cops every chance we get. Legislatures bend over backwards to give them more money and then more money after that. We hear so often about how "hard" their jobs are and how "they just want to come home to their families at the end of their shift." So then why is it such a fucking ask to apply those same thoughts to our kid's teachers? Or our own children? THEIR jobs are hard and THEY just want to go home to THEIR families. Their reward for the jobs they do? Budget cuts, mass shooter drills, and the occasional suggestion they carry a fucking gun to work.
    Last edited by cdm; 05-25-2022 at 08:54 AM.

  5. #2645
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    Preach it. The shooter wasn't even wearing body armor, the cops just waited for backup as he entered a school and proceeded to slaughter children. Even in the rare situation where lethal force is appropriate and even necessary, the police seem destined to do the most craven, unhelpful thing possible. More people with guns is not the solution. And the same immediate tired "don't politicize this" schpiel from the right, itself an obvious form of politicization, is as unsurprising as it is infuriating.

    Like with most issues now, we are hostage to a minority opinion, held by the outrageously wealthy corrupt assholes who make a buck off of this and the idiotic scum that buy into their asinine talking points.

    Pretty much feel this country is beyond saving at this point.

  6. #2646
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    "I did all I could, guys."



    I love that he said this is more important than basketball. He's probably going to get fined for it - if he hasn't already - because of the bullshit rules from the league.

  7. #2647
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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon blackfire View Post
    ......the shooter wasn't even wearing body armor, the cops just waited for backup as he entered a school and proceeded to slaughter children. .......

    what!?

    Seems similar to this article

    https://www.caller.com/videos/news/2...on/9920238002/

    SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?
    Last edited by ekrekel; 05-25-2022 at 11:16 AM.

  8. #2648
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    well, to be fair, friendly fire is a thing.

    Last edited by allegate; 05-25-2022 at 11:42 AM.

  9. #2649
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrekel View Post
    what!?

    Seems similar to this article

    https://www.caller.com/videos/news/2...on/9920238002/

    SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?
    Yeah the shooter was wearing body armor, like the shooter in Buffalo. Edit: No, guess he wasn’t. Cops were shooting at him as he crashed his car near the building. Edit: Cops can’t shoot. (Briefly engage means SHOOTING AT HIM!) He blasted his way into the school and took out an entire classroom.

    Per WaPo:

    A team of three Border Patrol agents from the agency’s elite BORTAC swat unit entered the school with a ballistic shield and killed Ramos, according to a federal law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide preliminary details.


    One of the agents was shot in the foot and grazed in the head in the exchange of gunfire with Ramos, the official said.


    Ramos had been firing at police out the windows, then fired at the BORTAC agents as they unlocked the classroom door to confront him.


    The BORTAC unit had been investigating stash houses used by smuggling organizations along the border west of Uvalde when agents received the call. They arrived to the school at 11:59 am, the official said.

 BORTAC units are Border Patrol tactical agents who are trained to confront armed trafficking groups or work in high-risk environments and operations.
    He was carrying like a BUNCH of AR-15 mags that he bought with the guns? They found over THREE HUNDRED ROUNDS. THREE HUNDRED.


    STOP SELLING MAGS WITH SO MUCH AMMO! Stop selling these guns!!
    Last edited by allegro; 05-25-2022 at 03:40 PM.

  10. #2650
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrekel View Post
    what!?

    Seems similar to this article

    SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?
    Under the previous tactical methodology (think Columbine) this would have been the recommended procedure. However in studying the response to Columbine they realized they exercised far too much caution in waiting to gather personnel, a decision that cost lives. They've since revised policy in much of the country in which police are not to wait for a tactical team and instead engage with the shooter aggressively, in small numbers if necessary to stop the threat as quickly as possible. You might remember, there was considerable debate after Parkland because the SRO was found to have actively AVOIDED engaging the shooter and was later charged criminally for his inactivity.

    It's probably too soon to understand exactly what happened and when (and how quickly) but there, again, seem to be have been some questionable decisions made.

  11. #2651
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    He wasn't wearing body armor - he was wearing "a plate carrier with no ballistic armor inside"

  12. #2652
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Under the previous tactical methodology (think Columbine) this would have been the recommended procedure. However in studying the response to Columbine they realized they exercised far too much caution in waiting to gather personnel, a decision that cost lives. They've since revised policy in much of the country in which police are not to wait for a tactical team and instead engage with the shooter aggressively, in small numbers if necessary to stop the threat as quickly as possible. You might remember, there was considerable debate after Parkland because the SRO was found to have actively AVOIDED engaging the shooter and was later charged criminally for his inactivity.

    It's probably too soon to understand exactly what happened and when (and how quickly) but there, again, seem to be have been some questionable decisions made.
    Yeah, I recall that part of the debate around Columbine and controversy at Parkland. Didn't that guy commit suicide?

    Those kids at some point certainly saw the SRO and were told they were "here to protect you". That role needs to require some serious commitment and pay needs to be adjusted appropriately. Those kids have to be YOUR KIDS. Oh you have 2 at home, congrats you now have 602.

    I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish? USSS's highest rank pays $160k to put their life on the line for the president, we need 100k of those. That's $16 Billion, add another $6B for R&D, equipment refresh whatever keeps these folks interested and engaged now we're at $22B. Same training practices, tech, retreats, drive the school golf cart backwards and pit maneuvers and what not. Job application question #1: "What is more important to you; you going home safe or every one of these kids going home safe?" and you do yearly reviews of the classified versions of all US school shooting reports as a reminder of the stakes and the commitment they've made.

  13. #2653
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrekel View Post
    I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish?
    No, god no, yes it is...in that order.

    The Parkland [former] deputy is alive and his case is still in the courts. A judge allowed the case to proceed in Aug of last year.
    Last edited by cdm; 05-25-2022 at 12:37 PM.

  14. #2654
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    OH MY GOD!!!

    Beto just interrupted Abbot’s press conference! To yell at Abbott!

    There’s screaming and yelling!!

    Omg!!

  15. #2655
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    man and I just closed twitter.

  16. #2656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon Blackfire View Post
    He wasn't wearing body armor - he was wearing "a plate carrier with no ballistic armor inside"
    Then, as usual, these cops are TERRIBLE shooters. They don’t do actual target shooting; they use simulators. Which makes them terrible shooters. A specialist SWAT team had to take him out.

  17. #2657
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    Beto interuppting: https://www.statesman.com/videos/new...te/9928905002/

    "Sick son of a bitch"???? Are you serious??

  18. #2658
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    I posted a while back about the discovery of a hidden recording of NRA heads talking about how to handle the optics of Coumbine shortly after it happened, but I feel like it's worth posting again, and maybe every time something "like this" happens.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/10490...ozoKaZ6G3HM9cM

  19. #2659
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    No, god no, yes it is...in that order.

    The Parkland [former] deputy is alive and his case is still in the courts. A judge allowed the case to proceed in Aug of last year.
    Not looking for a deployed unit, essentially asking for skills more in line with what could be effective in these situations. Federal, State, don't care, upgrade the SRO role.

  20. #2660
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    I fucking hate those guns so fucking much.

    They can’t even IDENTIFY many of these kids!!!

    They can’t use dental records!! They’re using DNA swabs!!!

    God damnit when are these evil fucking 2A assholes gonna give up these GI Joe guns to end this?

  21. #2661
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    In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.

  22. #2662
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.
    I'm sure fire marshals would have something to say about this.

  23. #2663
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.
    Parkland had that.

    These people are greedy morons.

  24. #2664
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    Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

    Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

    “Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.
    I hope this is in a lot of campaign ads over the summer.

    Last edited by allegate; 05-25-2022 at 11:41 PM.

  25. #2665
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    ^ wtf re police


    Also, seeing Beto doing that was awesome. It was important that he do that.

    Also awesome were the people yelling “1st amendment!” and “Free speech!!” as Beto was being escorted out of the auditorium by police.

    The greedy morons’ 2A rights always seem to trump everyone’s 1A rights.
    Last edited by allegro; 05-26-2022 at 12:32 AM.

  26. #2666
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    No, the majority does not believe this. Gun ownership is under 45%, assault style weaponry less than that. The majority wants stricter gun laws and restrictions. The vast majority wants stricter background checks. THE MAJORITY wants this to change.
    Yup, here’s a good article:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...lation/638425/

    The Pew polling found that significant majorities of Americans support background checks (81 percent), an assault-weapons ban (63 percent), and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines (64 percent); a majority also opposes concealed carry of weapons without a permit. Majorities of Republicans who don’t own guns shared those opinions, as did Democratic gun owners, by even more lopsided margins. Even most Republicans who do own guns said in the polling that they support background checks and oppose permitless concealed carry (which more red states, including Texas, are authorizing). Despite all of this, Republican elected officials, in their near-lockstep opposition to gun control, have bent to groups like the NRA in equating almost any restrictions as a sign of disrespect to the values of red America.

    When Congress, during Clinton’s first term, created the national background-check system through the Brady Bill and later approved a ban on assault weapons (which has since expired), significant numbers of congressional Democrats representing rural constituencies opposed the legislation, while significant numbers of Republicans with big suburban constituencies supported it. But three decades of electoral re-sorting has significantly shrunk both of those groups. As a result, when the House passed its universal-background-check bill in 2021, only eight Republicans voted for it, while just a single Democrat voted against it.
    Last edited by allegro; 05-26-2022 at 01:40 AM.

  27. #2667
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrekel View Post
    I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish? USSS's highest rank pays $160k to put their life on the line for the president, we need 100k of those. That's $16 Billion, add another $6B for R&D, equipment refresh whatever keeps these folks interested and engaged now we're at $22B. Same training practices, tech, retreats, drive the school golf cart backwards and pit maneuvers and what not. Job application question #1: "What is more important to you; you going home safe or every one of these kids going home safe?" and you do yearly reviews of the classified versions of all US school shooting reports as a reminder of the stakes and the commitment they've made.
    Church. I agree.

    ALSO:
    There are more guns than people in the US.
    Guns aren't going ANYWHERE, unless we become a totalitarian fascist state.
    That would require a bloody, gvmt vs citizens war...in other words, a decimation of the US population, and the end of the US as we know it.
    I'm pretty sure nobody wants that.

    So, this is what we have to work with. This is how it is. Period.

    We can pass H.R. 8 (except the republicans are beholden to the gun lobby).
    We should try to pass it NOW, though, and get every senator on record saying NO to a bill that would put just a LITTLE dent in this shit.

    But no gun law will fix this completely. This is just how it is. This is America in 2022. The best we can do, i think, is highly trained guards at schools, armed with assault rifles and clothed in the best, top secret bulletproof technology money can buy.
    Same with places of worship.

    We should ALSO, (and some schools are already like this), have the doors LOCKED, and opened only when they're supposed to be opened, by someone at the front office. This includes classroom doors and ALL doors.

    Edit: Also, as @allegro mentioned, there are a FUCKTON of polls that show that americans want SOME degree of gun control, including the stunning 2019 pew poll showing 90% of registered voters, and 77% of REPUBLICANS, supporting universal background checks.

    THis is minority rule. This is what it looks like. Get ready for a lot more of it.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-26-2022 at 03:35 AM.

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    do we even need the onion when the asshole governor is quoted as saying “it could’ve been worse”? fuck him for saying that. that’s some dismissive callous bullshit from anyone but he’s the governor. everything about this sucks. i hate it for these families.

    i saw some conservatives on fb saying “biden was vice president when sandy hook happened”. yeah he was. he tried to push on several actionable items afterwards and the republican led congress did nothing. do these people pay attention or not? what do they need to see that it’s their elected officials who let this happen?

  30. #2670
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    I accidentally clicked on the thread instead of the 'show newest'
    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Shooting in CT.

    Yeahhhh...I still think your country needs some more gun control.
    Jesus Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    do we even need the onion when the asshole governor is quoted as saying “it could’ve been worse”? fuck him for saying that. that’s some dismissive callous bullshit from anyone but he’s the governor. everything about this sucks. i hate it for these families.

    i saw some conservatives on fb saying “biden was vice president when sandy hook happened”. yeah he was. he tried to push on several actionable items afterwards and the republican led congress did nothing. do these people pay attention or not? what do they need to see that it’s their elected officials who let this happen?
    it's always the President's fault if it's a Democrat but "our hands are tied" if it's a Republican with these people.

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