Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[elevenism]

@elevenism - something for you to think about when your stance on gun control is influenced by your personal comfort

i don't think i've ever quite articulated my stance on gun control here, other than saying i don't like the open carry law in texas.

Hell, i live out in the country in the house my grandparents built. You can bet that we've got guns. Now that i think about it, we've got a couple that are older than me. (not that i have personally ever fucked with them. my mom and my wife are a different story though)
I'm not "anti-gun."
I'm pro background check and think that the open carry policy here is fucking insane.

[Deepvoid]

"He scared me!" the distraught father said in his 911 call. "I thought he was in school. I heard noise, so I went downstairs looking and he jumped out at me. .... Oh, God. Get here quick!"

Ohio man kills 14-year-old son.

So that's that ...

[sick among the pure]

A lot of people assume gay people are anti-gun because "democrat"

I always thought that association was silly, I'm a gay democrat who is far from anti-gun. There are plenty of democrats who own and enjoy their firearms. We're just safe, responsible gun owners, so we don't get the recognition that bat-shit insane "ammosexuals" do.

[ldopa]

i don't think i've ever quite articulated my stance on gun control here, other than saying i don't like the open carry law in texas.

Hell, i live out in the country in the house my grandparents built. You can bet that we've got guns. Now that i think about it, we've got a couple that are older than me. (not that i have personally ever fucked with them. my mom and my wife are a different story though)
I'm not "anti-gun."
I'm pro background check and think that the open carry policy here is fucking insane.

nothing wrong with that! but what is the gun related murder rate in your parts and surrounding areas? i'm willing to bet it's pretty low. also are gangs prevalent?

[DigitalChaos]

I always thought that association was silly, I'm a gay democrat who is far from anti-gun. There are plenty of democrats who own and enjoy their firearms. We're just safe, responsible gun owners, so we don't get the recognition that bat-shit insane "ammosexuals" do.

It's awesome to see this, thank you for that. We (San Francisco area) has quite a lot of stories in this realm. Chris Cheng is a local who is gay but also is heavily into the gun community. He made it to the top of national sport shooting events (including TV shows). His adamant support of the NRA is one of the many reasons I've started rethinking my opposition to the organization.

[elevenism]

nothing wrong with that! but what is the gun related murder rate in your parts and surrounding areas? i'm willing to bet it's pretty low. also are gangs prevalent?

oh man, not in the tiny town where i live, although violent crimes are strangely prevalent in the mid sized west texas cities like lubbock and amarillo (the number 2 and number 6 most dangerous cities in texas according to the fbi)

BUT...i have spent most of my 35 years in the triple D, dirty dirty dallas. It's pretty fucking rough and tumble. And i could never seem to afford a car, so i rode the trains and buses which causes you to rub shoulders with some pretty unsavory cats. Get on a train in dallas and you find a sea of red and blue-youngsters, mostly. hell, now that i think about it, one of my very closest friends that i've ever had is gangster disciple/folks nation.

But i wouldn't want people carrying guns openly there either, man, if that's where you're going with this.

For one thing, and this may sound silly, but for me it's out of sight, out of mind. I ASSUME people are carrying guns if i'm in east dallas, but i don't worry about it. But if i was walking down the street and saw people with guns, it would scare the shit out of me. Now that's just me-that's about my FEELINGS. The physical reality part of it that bothers me is that i'm afraid that people with guns ready to pull like it's the wild west will be way more apt to use them than someone who has his gun under his clothes.

[sick among the pure]

oh man, not in the tiny town where i live, although violent crimes are strangely prevalent in the mid sized west texas cities like lubbock and amarillo (the number 2 and number 6 most dangerous cities in texas according to the fbi)

BUT...i have spent most of my 35 years in the triple D, dirty dirty dallas. It's pretty fucking rough and tumble. And i could never seem to afford a car, so i rode the trains and buses which causes you to rub shoulders with some pretty unsavory cats. Get on a train in dallas and you find a sea of red and blue-youngsters, mostly. hell, now that i think about it, one of my very closest friends that i've ever had is gangster disciple/folks nation.

But i wouldn't want people carrying guns openly there either, man, if that's where you're going with this.

For one thing, and this may sound silly, but for me it's out of sight, out of mind. I ASSUME people are carrying guns if i'm in east dallas, but i don't worry about it. But if i was walking down the street and saw people with guns, it would scare the shit out of me. Now that's just me-that's about my FEELINGS. The physical reality part of it that bothers me is that i'm afraid that people with guns ready to pull like it's the wild west will be way more apt to use them than someone who has his gun under his clothes.

See, I have never understood why we need open-carry for everything from pistols to rifles. Carry conceal makes sense. You have your firearm on you in case of emergency, you can pull it out and defend yourself/others from attack. But openly walking around with an AR-15 across your chest with your hand on the grip is literally just a visual version of "come at me, bro!".
I plan on getting my NY carry-conceal once I have a more steady income (mostly because that is the only way you can legally purchase or handle a pistol in NY state, you have to go through the very thorough FBI background check for carry-conceal).
And sure, I would love to have an AR-15, or an AK-47 (if I had the money), to target shoot. Not to walk to the local Chipotle.
If anyone here is for open-carry, can you please explain it to me?

[allegro]

also are gangs prevalent?

Hey, lookee, here in Chicago, we have an interactive street gang locator map.

[elevenism]

See, I have never understood why we need open-carry for everything from pistols to rifles. Carry conceal makes sense. You have your firearm on you in case of emergency, you can pull it out and defend yourself/others from attack. But openly walking around with an AR-15 across your chest with your hand on the grip is literally just a visual version of "come at me, bro!".
I plan on getting my NY carry-conceal once I have a more steady income (mostly because that is the only way you can legally purchase or handle a pistol in NY state, you have to go through the very thorough FBI background check for carry-conceal).
And sure, I would love to have an AR-15, or an AK-47 (if I had the money), to target shoot. Not to walk to the local Chipotle.
If anyone here is for open-carry, can you please explain it to me?

Amen, @sick among the pure . And i was gonna mention you and talk about it in my last post, but it was getting too long.
Open carry is now legal in texas. I immediately had visions of walking into a bar where everybody had 2 guns on their hips, like the wild west.
Establishments can post a "no open carry allowed" sign on the door, thank god, and texas sign makers are overwhelmed with orders. So at least that.

Also, as far as the whole "democrat = anti-gun" thing, my wife and i were JUST talking about that before i read your post.
I'm a yellow dog dem, but we're reaching a point where "the blue pill" is kind of hard to swallow. Now i'm DAMN sure not going to turn republican by any means. But there are things that go along with being left wing that no longer agree with.

The solution to all of this is a topic for another thread, however.

[Dr Channard]

"He scared me!" the distraught father said in his 911 call. "I thought he was in school. I heard noise, so I went downstairs looking and he jumped out at me. .... Oh, God. Get here quick!"

Ohio man kills 14-year-old son.

So that's that ...

That’s awful.

My brother has guns in his house. Once I had gone over to drop-off some stuff in his basement while he was sleeping. Of course he awakens to the sounds of me banging stuff around in his basement, and as I hear the sound of his feet talking across the floorboards above me towards my direction, I quickly call out “it’s me, don’t shoot me!” knowing he likely had a gun in tow and wouldn’t hesitate to fire at an intruder. He said that saved me from probably being shot that night.

[DigitalChaos]

If anyone here is for open-carry, can you please explain it to me?

I don't have the option to open or conceal carry thanks to the wonders of SF bay area... but the general support behind open carry is:
- visual/psychological deterrent to crime and altercations. It's the same reason almost every security camera is visible instead of hidden.
- Faster draw. And a less awkward/complicated draw.
- more comfortable (and quite a bit cheaper to find a comfortable holster compared to CCW)
- you can carry a larger (and thus more accurate) gun
- people get used to seeing guns and don't have this extreme emotional response
- some police argue that OC allows them more safety since they can quickly detect if the person has a weapon


Negative:
- you lose the element of surprise
- you make yourself a target for bad attention (police, citizens, etc) in areas that are not gun friendly


You also have to check your own preconceived opinions of the two types. Many states only allow one or the other. So, you'll get activists using whatever they have to make a statement. That was the case in California for a while when Open Carry was the only option for most people. Now that is gone too (and probably going to the Supreme Court as you can't ban both without infringing on the 2nd amendment).

@elevenism - i'm not sure where you get this idea that suddenly various crime will climb... unless the open carry change allows more people to carry a gun who previously weren't? There is basically no difference in that kind of impact if you were to suddenly switch every CCW person to OC.

[ldopa]

But openly walking around with an AR-15 across your chest with your hand on the grip is literally just a visual version of "come at me, bro!".

who's really doing that, though?

@elevenism out of sight / mind equals less reaction time for all involved. your head is turned and you hear a loud ass noise, then hysteria.
you see a gun: you can decide whether or not to be in the vicinity.

[elevenism]

@elevenism out of sight / mind equals less reaction time for all involved. your head is turned and you hear a loud ass noise, then hysteria.
you see a gun: you can decide whether or not to be in the vicinity.

im just talking about the way my mind works.
seeing people with guns just makes me fucking nervous.

[sick among the pure]

who's really doing that, though?

Since I don't live in an open-carry state, I can only go off what information I can find via internet.
If you google image search "open carry" more than half the images are of rifles. Not to mention the articles when people started literally going to coffee shops and restaurants with rifles across their chest because open carry is legal where they live.
LIke I said, I am 100% for open or concealed carry for handguns for protection. But beyond looking tough and, honestly, looking somewhat like you're trying to start shit, why go grab your morning coffee with a rifle across your chest?

[DigitalChaos]

If you google image search "open carry" more than half the images are of rifles.

That's almost certainly activists doing it and probably in a state that only allows rifles being for open carry while handguns being banned. That was the case in California. When a state gets this restrictive, it also forces more activists out of the woodwork. So its this perfect storm situation for most of those images.

FWIW, they get TONS of shit from advocates of responsible concealed carry and even open carry. The activists frequently "pose" for pictures with extremely irresponsible things happening... hands on the grip (you don't do this unless you are about to use a gun, its easily "brandishing" in most situations), having the muzzle pointed in unsafe directions, etc etc. There is also the debate over the political reality of any effectivity behind open carry advocacy, even if it is done safely.


Here is probably the most shared image in those circles:


Another thing I forgot to mention about open carry. There is a common belief that open carry makes it easier for someone to walk up and steal the gun. There are actually lots of holsters that make take-aways very difficult. Lots of different latching mechanisms are built into many holsters now. It's pretty neat.
For the record, I'm not personally advocating open carry over concealed. I'm not even sure which I would prefer. I'm just conveying the info I have.

[Deepvoid]

@elevenism This news made me think of you.

Moviegoer critically wounded after drunk's gun fires during "13 hours" Benghazi film.

"Washington woman was critically injured after being shot in the chest when a man fumbled with his gun during a showing of the Benghazi movie “13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi,”

2nd Amendment: Unlimited supply of absurd gun-related news.
It will be 2150, we'll all be dead but you know someone will still get accidentally shot by some idiot while doing the groceries.
The next day, a boy will accidentally kill his sister using his dad's gun, which was left unsecured.
I tell you ... unlimited new stories until the end of time.

[elevenism]

@elevenism This news made me think of you.

Moviegoer critically wounded after drunk's gun fires during "13 hours" Benghazi film.

"Washington woman was critically injured after being shot in the chest when a man fumbled with his gun during a showing of the Benghazi movie “13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi,”

2nd Amendment: Unlimited supply of absurd gun-related news.
It will be 2150, we'll all be dead but you know someone will still get accidentally shot by some idiot while doing the groceries.
The next day, a boy will accidentally kill his sister using his dad's gun, which was left unsecured.
I tell you ... unlimited new stories until the end of time.

Oh, the fucking irony. These kind of stories are funny to me in some twisted way.

also... @ldopa . Shit like that.

also, did you guys already talk about this? http://jezebel.com/university-of-tex...-by-1736025107

UT students carried dildos openly (which ISN'T okay) to protest the school's open carry policy back in august.
Fucking brilliant, i tell you.

[DigitalChaos]

how do the chances of a drunk asshole fiddling around with an unholstered gun change if they are carrying due to open carry allowances vs concealed carry?

[elevenism]

how do the chances of a drunk asshole fiddling around with an unholstered gun change if they are carrying due to open carry allowances vs concealed carry?

oh hell, i don't know man. i'm not as serious about this shit as you are.
i think that someone is more APT to fuck drunkenly with a gun that's on his hip than one that's under his clothes.

[ldopa]

because of easier access or reaction time?
if you're drunk, and feel like you need your gun to come out, a layer a fabric makes no difference. they know their gun is there no matter what.

[DigitalChaos]

and it's not like he was "oh shit its an emergency i need my gun" it was a "lets fondle it until it drops on the floor" like some Pee Wee Herman in the movie theater shit.


I'm just pointing out that "Oh no, TX allows open carry (on top of the existing concealed carry is going to cause so many problems" doesn't really hold up.

[allegro]

and it's not like he was "oh shit its an emergency i need my gun" it was a "lets fondle it until it drops on the floor" like some Pee Wee Herman in the movie theater shit.


I'm just pointing out that "Oh no, TX allows open carry (on top of the existing concealed carry is going to cause so many problems" doesn't really hold up.

Isn't open carry legal in, like, 28 states? It really hasn't caused any problems in those states. If you're in Walmart and have your shotgun strung across the shopping cart, that sends a message: "Don't fuck with me, criminal asshole." If your gun is hidden, and you're rolled in the parking lot, now nobody knows who has a gun and then there's a fucking shootout by concealed guns. These gangbanger have concealed guns and nobody knows who's "packin'."

I actually like the idea of open carry BETTER than concealed carry (with concealed carry ILLEGAL unless you have a special permit, like if you're secret service or something), e.g. if you have a gun, it must be open and visible and not hidden and if it's hidden, it's illegal.

If you're drunk and fucking with a GUN, it don't matter if it's on your hip or on a counter, you're gonna be just as fucking stupid with a gun. And, really, those aren't the people that these gun laws are concerned about, because that usually ends up with the drunk shooting himself = natural selection.

[ldopa]

or the drunk shoots at the sky and is nabbed for curfew / noise pollution or disturbing the peace. which if they have no priors, shouldn't be a problem.

social darwinism rules all. if you're not meant to have a gun, someone or something will let you know.

guns are used for celebration, mourning, and revenge all the same. that counts for something.

[DigitalChaos]

School shooting in Canada. At least 4 dead and more injured.

Honest question: does Canada immediately start talking about gun control when stuff like this happens or is that primarily a US thing?


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/5-dead-...says-1.2748447

[marodi]

School shooting in Canada. At least 4 dead and more injured.

Honest question: does Canada immediately start talking about gun control when stuff like this happens or is that primarily a US thing?


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/5-dead-...says-1.2748447

I laughed at the question. I really really did. Not at the tragedy. But the question.

I don't know if you realize it but the last time stuff like this happened in Canada wasn't 2 days ago; not even 2 weeks ago. Not even last year. The last mass shooting in Canada happened on December 29, 2014.

But in a way yes, we do. The prime minister added that the question now is how to prevent such tragedies from reoccurring.

We don't do mass shooting on a regular basis in Canada.

The fact that you honestly asked the question in the first place tells me, in a way, that you honestly don't understand that guns (and all things related) are a US thing indeed.

[DigitalChaos]

Not sure what your point is. Canada has like 10% the population of the US. Even if all other factors were equal (they aren't), you'd expect 1/10th the number of incidents.

I'm just curious about the public response. It seems Canadians are much less prone to turning any shooting into a push for gun restrictions. Maybe it's a collective inability to understand risk or a better understanding. Maybe killings only matter if it's by a gun. Maybe it's a less manipulative and selfish culture that uses incidents for their political motives, or something else.

[marodi]

Let me try again with less sarcasm.

We already have severe gun control laws so our first instinct is to wonder why this happened, not that it happened with a gun. Yes we will look at the laws again to see if something can be done to make them "better", meaning that if different laws could have prevented it but it's not the first thing that comes to mind. The police will look first for a motive, then they will look at how the shooter came into possession of the gun.

We can own guns but we're not "obsessed" by it. Unless we're hunters or we practice a sport that requires a gun, we just don't see why we should have one. Gun control issue comes into the political arena from time to time but it's not the same as in the US.

Our cultures are completely different from one another on that issue and that's why we'll never see eye to eye on it.

[Dr Channard]

School shooting in Canada. At least 4 dead and more injured.

Honest question: does Canada immediately start talking about gun control when stuff like this happens or is that primarily a US thing?


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/5-dead-...says-1.2748447

I’d imagine when the day comes that shootings in Canada start branching into national epidemic levels, then there may be some broader social discussion and changes called for on the issue. But if Canadians are smart, they’ll learn from the blunder of their neighbor and not wade into that quagmire in the first place.

[DigitalChaos]

See, now the above 2 replies are valuable. I'm asking for the sake of asking and gathering opinions, not cause I don't already have an opinion. You gotta be nuts to read any page of this thread and think I don't have an opinion on most aspects of gun topics

[DigitalChaos]

or the drunk shoots at the sky and is nabbed for curfew / noise pollution or disturbing the peace. which if they have no priors, shouldn't be a problem.

its a misdemeanor or even felony in some US states. And honestly, it should be. Shooting a gun into the air is incredibly irresponsible and just plain unsafe if you are anywhere close to a populated area.