Gun rights is a ridiculous term. Guns don't have rights. And the guns are not winning. The national conversation is being had, every single day for 24 hours a day, on the various networks. That's where the arguments are being played out: in the coverage of minor crimes in a major way. Of course people aren't opposed to the idea of carrying a gun if, for the past thirty years, they've been made to feel unsafe even in their own homes.
As for Where are the gun-control people?, sadly they need to weight for another opportunity to start the conversation again. Just like the biggest shift in US citizen's opinions on gay rights (and actually existing cause) came about around the time media (news and other) started to pay more attention to violent crimes against homosexuals, as well as the problem of teen suicide. So basically: the next school shooting, the next poorly timed drive-by, the next Zimmerman... they'll be back. Because right now the entire conversation is dominated and framed by the paradigm of fear.
No disagreement on that. The need to leverage fear and emotion for so many aspects of our political environment frustrate the hell out of me.
Well, while we wait for the next high-profile shooting.... I recently came across this Freakonomics podcast about dealing with gun problems in the US. It's actually pretty good and they brought up an idea that I've never heard before. It's the idea that guns increase the rate of conflict (compared to fists, etc) because they are the great equalizer. http://www.freakonomics.com/2013/02/...radio-podcast/
The contents are similar to that huge Harvard study that was posted here a while back but much easier to digest. No surprise though. Freakonomics is always focused on data/statistics.
The knee-jerk fear reaction mobilizes people, but only for a short period of time (because people seem to have the attention spans of rats these days).
If the argument was primarily based on emotion, though, there seems to be zero national emotion for the 70+ people shot in Chicago during the 4th of July weekend, including a 5-yr-old.
But nobody is linking the "Heroin Highway" to the gang violence problems, because nobody in the 'burbs wants to admit that their nice clean white kids are driving to bad gang neighborhoods to buy heroin, thus creating the guns and violence problem.
The knee-jerk fear reaction mobilizes people, but only for a short period of time (because people seem to have the attention spans of rats these days).
If the argument was primarily based on emotion, though, there seems to be zero national emotion for the 70+ people shot in Chicago during the 4th of July weekend, including a 5-yr-old.
But nobody is linking the "Heroin Highway" to the gang violence problems, because nobody in the 'burbs wants to admit that their nice clean white kids are driving to bad gang neighborhoods to buy heroin, thus creating the guns and violence problem.
Well, if the national media was running this story all day and we had Obama mentioning it, you can be damn sure we would have a response! One more data point for ending the drug war and fixing the education & poverty issues.
That's pretty much the point though: it doesn't fit the narrative. The reality of gun-related crime, what it really does and how it really affects the nation, is not included in the narrative of what guns do. Just like the reality of who gun carriers generally are, isn't included in the pro-control narrative either, which is already a counter-narrative, already deviating from what is generally acceptable to say.
The fourth estate is pretty much running the show on this (and a lot of other) topics, maintaining the status quo.
Yes, the teen was illegally carrying a gun. The attacker had a large stick.
You gotta face the reality that it's just a matter of time before a 17-year old will shoot a 16-year old during a school fight because the older teen was losing the edge in the fight and "fear for his life".
Yes, the teen was illegally carrying a gun. The attacker had a large stick.
You gotta face the reality that it's just a matter of time before a 17-year old will shoot a 16-year old during a school fight because the older teen was losing the edge in the fight and "fear for his life".
YOU gotta face the reality that Florida is weird. And the rest of us citizens have no control over Florida. We have something called "state's rights."
There is a reason that Florida has it's own topic tag on Fark. FL is just all kinds of fucked up.
But I'll never understand why people want to constantly insert themselves into other people's business though. Whether it's imposing the federal government on states that they have no part in, or imposing military force on other countries. Just... fix your shit and then act as a role model for everyone else. Until then, I might as well be getting relationship advice from my 3x divorced uncle.
Whatever, just ban illegal things. Why haven't we done this already? I'm so sick of people getting away with all these illegal things.
but seriously, I'm pretty surprised at how much progress the gun-rights group has been making. CHICAGO dumping their gun registry and permit system blew my mind when I saw that news.
Yup. It definitely seems like a win for gun rights. I'm curious how much this will influence similar bans in other parts of the country. I know more suits followed this one.
Another win for gun rights was the recall of two Colorado DEMs who were pushing gun control. I believe those were the first ever successful recalls and the NRA was backing them.
Any push for gun control right now seems like it would be even harder than post-newtown. They are off to a hilarious bad start already with the Navy Yard shooting. The guy used a shotgun but politicians are pushing more assault weapon bans. It was also an area where guns (or is it ammo?) were already banned. People who were there said they could have easily cleared the area if they were armed.
He had a shotgun (totally legal and constitutionally protected throughout the United States) which he assembled in the men's room after gaining access to the facility using his full security clearance.
"We're sorry about your son Madam, but the shooter was crazy!"
How did this guy get his guns again?
I have not read much on the subject.
With a history of multiple shooting related incidents/arrests and being actively treated for mental health problems he:
- passed a military background check for employment
- passed the FBI background check for gun purchases
- he passed the Virginia background check for gun purchases
- bought the shotgun with 24 shells
- did not purchase a scary assault weapon, high capacity magazine, large amount of ammo, etc.
- walked into a gun-free area where occupants feel they could have cleared the situation if they were armed
Gun control is so effective!
As @allegro said, this is much more about treating mental health than it is about finding new ways to fail at stopping people from getting guns.
It's really unfortunate that nobody cares about the murder rates in big cities. These mass shootings really suck but take a step back. 506 homicides in Chicago alone in 2012. New York? 414 in 2012. Detroit 411.
I guess its easier to just say "OH YEAH BAN THE GUNS!" than to actually address issues like poverty, education, and mental health.
Mental illness, gun control or whatever solution you're rooting for, it's not getting done.
A bunch of kids were gunned down and nothing was done about it. What's the point of even arguing about gun control anymore?
oooooor people are shitty parents and no law is going to change that... and people who use shitty examples like yours are a great example of why pushes for gun control keep failing
I guess its easier to just say "OH YEAH BAN THE GUNS!" than to actually address issues like poverty, education, and mental health.
Why is it then that the most vocal opponents of gun control in the US also oppose things like public-option universal healthcare, stronger welfare programs and public education?
I'm happy this guy gets a bigger platform but I'm pissed that it was the NRA who gave it to him. The NRA's support of the 2nd Amendment is only consequential of their desire to sell guns. This guy is one of the few who actually use logic to address this topic. Most instances of logic used to address this topic result in opposition to gun control... so it was inevitable that someone like the NRA would find this guy. Him being a card-carrying ACLU and NRA member is still going to mess with minds.
I guess the other positive is that it will introduce a new way of thinking to the right-wing. Hope they apply this type of thinking to all other aspects of their platform.
Last edited by DigitalChaos; 09-23-2013 at 02:13 PM.
Gunshots near Capitol temporarily locks down Congress.
(CNN) -- Lockdown at U.S. Capitol lifted following car chase, reports of gunfire
-- Police: Secret Service encountered car whose driver tried to pass barricade near White House around 2:15 p.m. Thursday.
-- Chase of vehicle began; police officer injured in crash near 1st and Constitution Avenue, police say
-- Suspect's car crashed near Capitol; shots "potentially fired," police say; suspect's condition unavailable
See if you can ignore the NRA stamps all over this thing for 5min.... Tell me if you actually disagree with the message:
How could I disagree with the message when he didn't have one?
Yes, there are many roots to violence and everyone agrees we should do as much as we can to prevent violence before it starts, but what the fuck does that have to do with access to guns? The point of gun control is that when violent and crazy people act out, they can't do nearly as much damage if they don't have an assault rifle.
This sort of bullshit is just a "Look over there" tactic to distract people from an issue you don't want them thinking about.
Of course we should look into causes of violence. But since the total prevention of violence isn't a realistic possibility, another sensible idea is to limit the amount of damage someone can do if they do become violent. That's why gun control is a part of of the solution. It's not the entire solution. But it is a part and shouldn't be dismissed just because it won't prevent all acts of violence.
Likes: 
Faceplams: 
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by allegro
