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Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

  1. #841
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    You just don't get it. We need MORE guns to keep gun crime down and defend ourselves from criminals who won't obey the law anyway: so what's the point of stricter gun laws? Those criminals will find ways of getting guns anyway, so all gun control will do is stop innocent people being able to protect themselves. Never mind that the overwhelming majority of guns used in gun deaths are legally bought and sold at origin. Never mind that at all.

    Also: the government has no right to take away my right to protect myself...from other people with guns. I also have no right to protect myself from people with guns by getting my government to make it hard for them to have guns in the first place. It is their right to pack firepower and I have no right to stop them...except with my own personal firepower.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    What irony?
    The irony of your argument, also, being based on fear and circular logic.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    You can't have it both ways. You can't object to any form of regulation on day and send thoughts and prayers when kids are getting shot the next day.
    You either do something or you don't. If you don't screw those dead kids. Parents can make new ones anyway.
    You don't have a choice but to be totally disconnected from having any feelings whatsoever.
    I can send thoughts and prayers out to the victims massacred and their families all I want. I've done something. Rallied for the end of gun free zones. Something that might actually make a difference when a psychopath is planning on killing as many people as possible in order to make an infamous name for themselves.

    What exactly have you done to make a real change in gun violence? What change are you championing that would actually make a difference in violent crime?

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    I can send thoughts and prayers out to the victims massacred and their families all I want. I've done something. Rallied for the end of gun free zones. Something that might actually make a difference when a psychopath is planning on killing as many people as possible in order to make an infamous name for themselves.

    What exactly have you done to make a real change in gun violence? What change are you championing that would actually make a difference in violent crime?
    From where I come from, there's almost no gun violence. So, there's nothing to do really.
    We have a gun registry. You need like three different kind of licenses to own a gun. Basically, it's a long process to get a gun. It's also illegal to carry one unless you're going haunting. That's another license though. All good solutions imo.

    You might want to send some prayers over that dad who killed his 10-year old son while cleaning his shotgun a couple weeks ago in N.C.
    Last edited by Deepvoid; 04-04-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    You might want to send some prayers over that dad who killed his 10-year old son while cleaning his shotgun a couple weeks ago in N.C.
    Fuck's sake, how hard is it to check and see if your gun is loaded before cleaning it?! And even if it isn't loaded, TREAT IT LIKE IT IS.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer808 View Post
    Fuck's sake, how hard is it to check and see if your gun is loaded before cleaning it?! And even if it isn't loaded, TREAT IT LIKE IT IS.
    I completely agree.
    With that being said, with 300 million guns out there, how many owners are morons like this father? Probably more than a few.

  7. #847
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    Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

    Irresponsible people are always risking themselves and others. Look at automobile stats. You can't legislate stupidity.

  8. #848
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    Despite gun-control push, more states have cut back on gun regulations since Newtown
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/d...-election.html

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Irresponsible people are always risking themselves and others. Look at automobile stats. You can't legislate stupidity.
    I'd bet a lot more kids drown in swimming pools than are killed by negligent discharges per year.

    Maybe we should really be looking at the swimming pools. Surely everyone would agree as....It's for the children.

  10. #850
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    Perhaps the failure on the gun-control side is due to the continual incompetence of the people pushing it....

    High capacity magazines has been the biggest item talked about with the recent gun-control. You'd think that by now just about anyone would know what a high capacity magazine is. Especially those involved in trying to ban them. Yet, we have this kind of awesomeness:

    CO Dem Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid..._reloaded.html

    Yup, the person wanting to ban high capacity magazines thinks that "magazine clips" are something that gets consumed when you fire the gun. We can add this brilliance to the representatives who talk about "heat seeking bullets" and the "shoulder thing that goes up" barrel shrouds.

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    I'd bet a lot more kids drown in swimming pools than are killed by negligent discharges per year.

    Maybe we should really be looking at the swimming pools. Surely everyone would agree as....It's for the children.
    yuuuup!

    But you know what I say... go ahead and ban swimming pools too! If you want to remove every potential threat around you and live in a padded world, do it! But keep it to your location. Talk to your local officials and make it happen. DON'T tell me this is something that must happen nation-wide. How fucking arrogant do you have to be to tell everyone that you know what is best for them? People you've never met, never lived where they have, and know nothing about. To say you do is incredibly arrogant.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Perhaps the failure on the gun-control side is due to the continual incompetence of the people pushing it....
    It's more akin to complete ignorance or arrogance. I really believe that most of those on the gun-control side are competent.

    There are a lot of devout Catholics that are anti-abortion. I don't think they're incompetent. Ignorant and or arrogant? Certainly.

  13. #853
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    Well, arrogance absolutely ties into my last post. Being so convinced that you know what is best for everyone else that you don't even research it. I still call it incompetence though. If you are a representative it's your job to understand what you are voting on or proposing legislation for.

  14. #854
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    Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

    There's a saying we have in law: it couldn't hurt.

    The SCOTUS has already decided that assault weapons are not protected by the Constitution. There is nothing inherently wrong with regulation. The NRA does not give a flying fuck about the 2nd Amendment: the NRA is all about collecting money. For themselves. And for their own candidate. For kickbacks, not for rights.

    Are most of our politicians stupid? Yes, Are a lot of them only on board any issue solely because they're ass-kissers and not because they represent their constituents or are too incompetent to vote on any issue? Pu-leeze. Career politician should be a big clue, there. They choose that because they hardly ever work. big pension for nothing, high class hookers!!, freebies, kickbacks and lots of days off!! They don't care about YOU, the stupid voter! They care about the NRA, $$$$, PACs, the media, lobbyists, favors, blah blah blah. Each side is rife with suckers.

    I'm all for limits of weapons, I'm all for universal background checks. But using Sandy Hook as an example for background checks or gun regulation is dumb; because the shooter STOLE HIS MOTHER'S legally-obtained guns and then he shot his mother.

    SO THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT IS BEING IGNORED, YET AGAIN, IS MENTAL HEALTH CARE!! That kid's mother tried to get help but nobody did. Now some of the Sandy Hook victims are blaming the shooter's dad, "where was he?" I know these people are in pain and want to blame something or someone, but nobody looks to blame our own lack of mental health care.

    And politicians - pro and anti gun - are opportunistically using this for their own benefit.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-04-2013 at 10:23 PM.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The irony of your argument, also, being based on fear and circular logic.

    Did you read the rest of my post?

    I notice you haven't addressed any of my points, so money's on no...

  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    There's a saying we have in law: it couldn't hurt.

    The SCOTUS has already decided that assault weapons are not protected by the Constitution. There is nothing inherently wrong with regulation. The NRA does not give a flying fuck about the 2nd Amendment: the NRA is all about collecting money. For themselves. And for their own candidate. For kickbacks, not for rights.

    Are most of our politicians stupid? Yes, Are a lot of them only on board any issue solely because they're ass-kissers and not because they represent their constituents or are too incompetent to vote on any issue? Pu-leeze. Career politician should be a big clue, there. They choose that because they hardly ever work. big pension for nothing, high class hookers!!, freebies, kickbacks and lots of days off!! They don't care about YOU, the stupid voter! They care about the NRA, $$$$, PACs, the media, lobbyists, favors, blah blah blah. Each side is rife with suckers.

    I'm all for limits of weapons, I'm all for universal background checks. But using Sandy Hook as an example for background checks or gun regulation is dumb; because the shooter STOLE HIS MOTHER'S legally-obtained guns and then he shot his mother.

    SO THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT IS BEING IGNORED, YET AGAIN, IS MENTAL HEALTH CARE!! That kid's mother tried to get help but nobody did. Now some of the Sandy Hook victims are blaming the shooter's dad, "where was he?" I know these people are in pain and want to blame something or someone, but nobody looks to blame our own lack of mental health care.

    And politicians - pro and anti gun - are opportunistically using this for their own benefit.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...e-james-holmes

  17. #857
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    Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

    ^^ Exactly.

  18. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post



    I'm all for limits of weapons, I'm all for universal background checks. But using Sandy Hook as an example for background checks or gun regulation is dumb; because the shooter STOLE HIS MOTHER'S legally-obtained guns and then he shot his mother.
    But if that legally-obtained gun by the shooter had been post-gun control. It could not have stolen an AR-15 with high capacity magazine. The end result WOULD have been different. Less dead kids

  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    But if that legally-obtained gun by the shooter had been post-gun control. It could not have stolen an AR-15 with high capacity magazine. The end result WOULD have been different. Less dead kids
    We don't know that. If he took 5 guns with normal magazines, he still would have shot a lot of kids. Maybe he wouldn't have shot each kid 20 times, but it's the same result. The result is a symptom of mental illness. I don't like high capacity magazines in a non-military setting, either. But, again, it really pisses me off that nothing is being done about mental health care. Nothing. This gun control thing is just political smoke and mirrors.

  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We don't know that. If he took 5 guns with normal magazines, he still would have shot a lot of kids. Maybe he wouldn't have shot each kid 20 times, but it's the same result. The result is a symptom of mental illness. I don't like high capacity magazines in a non-military setting, either. But, again, it really pisses me off that nothing is being done about mental health care. Nothing. This gun control thing is just political smoke and mirrors.
    I have to disagree that it's all smoke and mirrors. It works for certain country. Maybe not for yours but to say that gun control doesn't work at all is not based on facts.

    The state of Maryland has passed new gun legislature. That makes 4 states (Colorado, Maryland, Connecticut and New York) who decided to take matter into their own hands and not wait for Congress to do something (or nothing).

  21. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    I have to disagree that it's all smoke and mirrors. It works for certain country. Maybe not for yours but to say that gun control doesn't work at all is not based on facts.

    The state of Maryland has passed new gun legislature. That makes 4 states (Colorado, Maryland, Connecticut and New York) who decided to take matter into their own hands and not wait for Congress to do something (or nothing).
    As we've said, before, we HAVE gun control legislation, here. Lots of it. We had a full ban on assault weapons for ten years, already. But "smoke and mirrors" means that the legislators don't really give this a big priority. Those blabbing about this on television are only doing that to get more voters. Very few of the conservatives are willing to risk the next election for this, even if they were told that the majority of their constituents wanted more regulation. The only way we can get this done is to put it on the ballot and let the voters of each state decide. But, with the current Republic-majority House, this ain't gonna get done via Congress. And with gerrymandering, it's likely that the Republicans will keep control of at least the House for many many many years. Especially since the NRA is supplying the money for their campaign funds. This is a state's rights issue, and that's likely how it's going to stay for a long while.

    Meanwhile, the REAL issue (mental health care) will again be ignored. As usual. And with the sequester, they'll have an excuse that we have no money.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-05-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  22. #862
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    The mental health question is definitely something that needs to be looked at. Issue being that there seems to be significant overlap between those against gun control and those against universal/affordable healthcare.

    Even as an outsider this "debate" is frustrating and anuerysm-inducing. I'm glad we sorted this shit out ages ago.

  23. #863
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    I 100% agree with your last few posts @allegro . Although, I will say that the horrible politicians is exactly why I don't want more regulation. They are the ones who will make any regulation.

  24. #864
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    Also, I need to revise this post about the random politician having no idea how magazines work. She isn't a random politician.
    She is the LEAD SPONSOR FOR THE FEDERAL HIGH CAPACITY BAN
    What in the fucking christ!

    http://www.guns.com/2013/04/03/lead-...eloaded-video/

    and the second video on that page. holy fucking fail.



    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Perhaps the failure on the gun-control side is due to the continual incompetence of the people pushing it....

    High capacity magazines has been the biggest item talked about with the recent gun-control. You'd think that by now just about anyone would know what a high capacity magazine is. Especially those involved in trying to ban them. Yet, we have this kind of awesomeness:

    CO Dem Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid..._reloaded.html

    Yup, the person wanting to ban high capacity magazines thinks that "magazine clips" are something that gets consumed when you fire the gun. We can add this brilliance to the representatives who talk about "heat seeking bullets" and the "shoulder thing that goes up" barrel shrouds.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 04-05-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  25. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    I have to disagree that it's all smoke and mirrors. It works for certain country. Maybe not for yours but to say that gun control doesn't work at all is not based on facts.
    Gun control not working in the United States is supported by facts. We had an AWB for 10 years that had on discernible effect on gun violence. We also have a couple cities with the strictest gun control laws in the country that also have the highest murder rates.

  26. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    Gun control not working in the United States is supported by facts. We had an AWB for 10 years that had on discernible effect on gun violence. We also have a couple cities with the strictest gun control laws in the country that also have the highest murder rates.
    Well, HOWEVER: I don't want to sound like a broken record, here, but I've been in law for 24 years; technically, if you look at stats in certain ways, robbery laws, assault laws, manslaughter laws, murder laws, etc. would appear to be "not working" in the United States. Yet, we still need robbery, assault, manslaughter, murder laws, etc, Because the population needs laws. Because the population is generally stupid and needs guidelines.

    Just like when the office issues a "business casual" dress mandate, and the company has to send around a memo defining business casual (no Van Halen t-shirts, no shorts, no Hawaain attire, no gym shoes, etc.). Because people are stupid. Because people need rules and strict definitions. Because chaos and anarchy had never been profitable or beneficial to society.

    Chicago (big city with highest murder rate) stopped strict gun control a few years ago and now we are very close to legal concealed carry but nobody seems to snap out of the old days and get current; gun control advocates are using Chicago as an exhibit for their argument but it's bad and outdated data; the SCOTUS eliminated those strict laws relating to handguns everywhere in the U.S.

    City gun control laws are obviously useless. Hell, state and federal gun control laws are useless when it comes to criminals because criminals don't obey the law.

    The gun of choice among Chicago gangs has shifted from the Glock and high-capacity high-powered assault weapons to "the smaller the better" 9mm semi-auto run-of-the-mill handgun (protected by SCOTUS decision; gangs are way ahead of y'all because they have high-powered lawyers).

    Does this mean we eliminate laws?

    No, because we still have to have laws. Because civilized culture requires laws.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-05-2013 at 11:07 PM.

  27. #867
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    Wow, this Diana DeGette video/response might end up turning into a high-profile issue that really hurts any remaining gun-control momentum.

    Her spokeswoman, Juliet Johnson, gave this statement in response:
    “The congresswoman has been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years and has been deeply involved in the issue; she simply misspoke in referring to ‘magazines’ when she should have referred to ‘clips,’ which cannot be reused because they don’t have a feeding mechanism.”

    Amazing. So she "mispoke" about "clips" even though she was asked about magazines, her legislation is about magazine, nobody in the national conversation was ever talking about clips, ... oh and most clips actually CAN be reloaded (thus making the idea that these are consumable items just ridiculous).... wow



    FYI for those who don't know the difference - Clips and magazines are very different. Clips have never been a concern by any of the gun-control proponents.

  28. #868
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    While I question whether or not she REALLY gives a shit about this (and why she doesn't give a BIGGER shit about mental health care), I'm not gonna nitpick about her terminology use. That's just silly. We all know what she meant. I've shot lots of guns with magazines; I'm not gonna be a dick and rag on somebody for calling it a clip.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-05-2013 at 11:02 PM.

  29. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    While I question whether or not she REALLY gives a shit about this (and why she doesn't give a BIGGER shit about mental health care), I'm not gonna nitpick about her terminology use. That's just silly. We all know what she meant. I've shot lots of guns with magazines; I'm not gonna be a dick and rag on somebody for calling it a clip.
    It doesn't matter what she called it. She thinks it is a consumable part like ammunition! Her entire premise for "why it will help" is that you supposedly use it up and they disappear. This is completely unacceptable for someone who has been working for years on national legislation to ban magazines.

    Her original statement that's causing the controversy (when asked why a limit on magazine capacity will have a beneficial impact):
    I will tell you these are ammunition, they’re bullets, so the people who have those know they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available.


    Her rep is trying to make it a simple "clip vs magazine" slip that everyone does but it has nothing to do with that.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 04-05-2013 at 11:13 PM.

  30. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Her rep is trying to make it a simple "clip vs magazine" slip that everyone does but it has nothing to do with that.

    Sorry, nitpicking, not buying your argument. Because she's really fucking stupid doesn't mean she's not trying to buy votes.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-05-2013 at 11:22 PM.

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