Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[Sutekh]

What @allegro just said but also: What is this "incident rate" you are referring to as it concerns children being given guns? Guessing you are lumping together the entire "gun problem" to make your point. I'd be willing to bet that kids who grow up with guns are much more likely to become a statistic than gun owners who didn't grow up with them.

No, I was talking about the same incident rate you were (relating to children). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume you were making a hasty leap to the first apparent way of dismissing what I posted

I don't understand the last sentence of your post, sorry. edit - on second thoughts I do, it just doesn't seem like the point I'd imagine you'd be making

[allegro]

thanks, I thought it was just me!!!

[DigitalChaos]

Wait, what?

My ex husband owned guns and my former step-children grew up with those guns. He took them to the firing range and had them fire the guns and taught them gun safety when they were young and they knew the guns were forbidden territory and messing with them came with dire consequences (the wrath of my ex husband was no light matter). And they fully understood that guns were dangerous and were to be respected, just like my ex-husband's motorcycles. And the kids grew up to have zero interest in guns. One of them became a doctor. It seems to me that the kids who happen upon a gun and shoot some other kid in the house with the gun or take the gun to Show-n-Tell in school weren't taught about guns? They don't know the difference between a real gun and a toy? That being said, hunting accidents happen all the time. The 5-yr-old who shot another kid isn't much different than other hunting accidents. But, neither is it much different than the thousands of children who are killed each year when their own parent runs them over with the car in the driveway. It's sad, sure. But, shit happens. If that 5-yr-old went to gun safety classes and still shot his sister, that kid was - sadly - not ready for hunting. I think FIVE is way too young for that shit but I don't live in the sticks and I don't hunt for food so don't ask me.

One of these days I will proofread my posts before I hit submit... I 100% agree. That should have been "those who grow up with guns are more likely to NOT become a statistic"

Becoming a parent has made me realize how much we are screwing our kids up with our obsessive focus on safety. My kid is only 3 but I already see the impact of that style of parenting on what children are capable of (or incapable of handling).

[allegro]

I wish California had better CCW laws. Unless you live in a rural area you are out of luck. Such is the plight of a libertarian who lives around San Francisco

Um, don't be too sure about that.

[miss k bee]

Children in rural communites may learn to shoot but from the age of 4 and 5?? That is crazy. From the age of 8 to 10 maybe.

Here is the story;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22386105

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...le-front-porch

[DigitalChaos]

Um, don't be too sure about that.

Interesting. In CA they do it different. If you have a CCW permit for one county it allows you to travel with the concealed weapon to any county in California. Same thing when SF had an outright ban on all guns; if you didn't actually live in SF, it would have been ok to have a weapon on you (or something along those lines).

I see the pros and cons of both methods. I wonder which one works better in practice.

[allegro]

Here is the story;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22386105
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...le-front-porch

Yeah, that was linked here last Thursday.

I don't understand 5, either, but I'm not a hick in the sticks. However, I've been killing fish via a fishing pole since I was 5, so I guess to these people it's about the same thing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31952727/n.../#.UYmqFLWsh8E


Full disclosure: MY OWN COUSIN SHOT HIS BEST FRIEND WITH A HAND GUN when they were in junior high school (7th and 8th grade). They "found" my cousin's friend's dad's gun (I can fully assure you that my uncle - also my Godfather - didn't know shit about guns, never owned one EVER) and I dunno wtf happened but my younger cousin ACCIDENTALLY shot his own best friend. Because they didn't know it was loaded. His friend is still alive, THANK GOD, but you can be SURE that neither of the dumbasses knew ANYTHING about guns. This was in fucking STERLING HEIGHTS, MICHIGAN, also known as "Sterile Whites," which was, back, then, a really boring upper-middle-class suburb of the Detroit area where NOTHING ever happened. Back then, we were literally surrounded by cows and corn fields. The most exciting thing that ever happened to us is when they built Lakeside Mall. Oh, wait, my best friend's high school boyfriend got high on Dust and stabbed his neighbor to death. But that's probably because boredom leads to drugs. Write that down, kids, it's important.

[DigitalChaos]

Yea, I'm not buying my kid a gun at 5. Mayyyyybe I'll bring him to a range but I'm guessing that'll be 8-10yo at the earliest. I live in a very urban area though. The only thing he *needs* a gun for at that ages is if society collapses and his parents are unable to defend him (if you scoff at this then read the history of the 1906 quake). I'm ok, statistically, waiting for him to get older.

If you are rural and the situation is sane with "fishing pole" then it's fine with "gun". Just gotta be more careful as the parent.

[DigitalChaos]

Full disclosure: MY OWN COUSIN SHOT HIS BEST FRIEND WITH A HAND GUN when they were in junior high school (7th and 8th grade). They "found" my cousin's friend's dad's gun (I can fully assure you that my uncle - also my Godfather - didn't know shit about guns, never owned one EVER) and I dunno wtf happened but my younger cousin ACCIDENTALLY shot his own best friend. Because they didn't know it was loaded. His friend is still alive, THANK GOD, but you can be SURE that neither of the dumbasses knew ANYTHING about guns. This was in fucking STERLING HEIGHTS, MICHIGAN, also known as "Sterile Whites," which was, back, then, a really boring upper-middle-class suburb of the Detroit area where NOTHING ever happened. Back then, we were literally surrounded by cows and corn fields. The most exciting thing that ever happened to us is when they built Lakeside Mall. Oh, wait, my best friend's high school boyfriend got high on Dust and stabbed his neighbor to death. But that's probably because boredom leads to drugs. Write that down, kids, it's important.

Jesus... The only gun incident in my family is with a great grandfather. He was a NY mounted policeman. His gun was on a locker and discharged into his temple. Completely blinded him. He went on to start the first organization for the blind in NY while working a newspaper stand downtown.


edit: here he is!

[allegro]

@DigitalChaos : Wow, that's awesome!!!

[DigitalChaos]

Quality trolling within the libertarian circles: http://dcist.com/2013/05/libertarian..._gun-totin.php

[elevenism]

I just CAN NOT figure out where i stand on this issue.
i'm bipolar...diagnosed in 96 or so, before it was the en vouge diagnosis. I am also a recovering alcoholic...i used to drink at least a liter of vodka a day...EVERY DAY.
SO i guess the bottom line is if i had a gun, SOMEONE would have been shot by now.
I've steered clear of them because i KNOW i'm throwed like a football.
I don't want people like me having guns.
But i also don't want any of our rights infringed. It's a slippery slope.
But i know one thing we need for sure...universal background checks, better background checks. And it's sad to me that we couldn't pass the bill for background checks when i was seeing polls where 80 something percent of REPUBLICANS supported the background checks! They just vote along party lines. Period.
I think that the real issue here is that our government is BROKEN and it will be damn near impossible to fix it.

I am SO tired of this issue though...that's why ive been ets'n it instead of facebookin' it lately.

[Sutekh]

Facebook = "oh wow, everyone I went to school with is either a nazi, a commie or believes in alien reptiles"

[Dra508]

Jesus... The only gun incident in my family is with a great grandfather. He was a NY mounted policeman. His gun was on a locker and discharged into his temple. Completely blinded him. He went on to start the first organization for the blind in NY while working a newspaper stand downtown.


edit: here he is!

GTFO

My family gun story was my grand dad was a NYC cop and he never discharged his weapon. He hit a guy in the head with the butt of the pistol once. Guy robbed a store and ran right into G'Pa on the street.

Here he is:

[DigitalChaos]

GTFO

My family gun story was my grand dad was a NYC cop and he never discharged his weapon. He hit a guy in the head with the butt of the pistol once. Guy robbed a store and ran right into G'Pa on the street.

Here he is:

Guessing they were a few decades apart in their work but how awesome would it be if they worked together? I've done some family tree tracing back to 500AD and there are lots of interesting coincidences like that. Hell, I have a relative who came over on the mayflower. There was another guy on that ship that fell overboard. He was lucky and grabbed onto a trailing rope. If that rope wasn't there, we wouldn't have Bush presidencies, Sarah Palin, Franklin D Roosevelt, or Joseph Smith (mormonism).
kinda crazy to think about!

[DigitalChaos]

So, DEFCAD released the 100% 3D printed single shot .38 recently. Seems the government is angry about it and the US DDTS is "claiming control" of the information and removing it from public consumption http://defcad.org/liberator/

Meanwhile, the Streisand Effect goes into full throttle for a little 2MB file. The seed count of various torrent locations is climbing very rapidly. A 2nd amendment issue just got attached to a 1st amendment issue.

[Satyr]

So, DEFCAD released the 100% 3D printed single shot .38 recently. Seems the government is angry about it and the US DDTS is "claiming control" of the information and removing it from public consumption http://defcad.org/liberator/

Meanwhile, the Streisand Effect goes into full throttle for a little 2MB file. The seed count of various torrent locations is climbing very rapidly. A 2nd amendment issue just got attached to a 1st amendment issue.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if these guys get branded terrorists.

[DigitalChaos]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if these guys get branded terrorists.

Seems unlikely. It looks like they are just going to try and go after the export angle. Hell, they aren't even accusing them yet... just saying that it needs to come down and be under the "control" of ITAR until they do decide.

Here is the text of the notice:
http://i.imgur.com/4OPjbJ4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qbsc5aZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q1Qocm2.jpg

Cody is a law student. So, I am really anxious to see how everything plays out.

[Jinsai]

This is all fun and games, until somebody uploads a "day after" pill for 3D printer.

[Satyr]

Seems unlikely. It looks like they are just going to try and go after the export angle. Hell, they aren't even accusing them yet... just saying that it needs to come down and be under the "control" of ITAR until they do decide.

Here is the text of the notice:
http://i.imgur.com/4OPjbJ4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qbsc5aZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q1Qocm2.jpg

Cody is a law student. So, I am really anxious to see how everything plays out.

Have you ever seen Die Hard 2?

"Luggage? That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines here and it costs more than what you make in a month!"

The only pieces of metal in this gun that appear to be metal are the firing pin and the bullet/casing.

[DigitalChaos]

Have you ever seen Die Hard 2?

"Luggage? That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines here and it costs more than what you make in a month!"

The only pieces of metal in this gun that appear to be metal are the firing pin and the bullet/casing.

There is also a functionless 6oz metal plate for the purposes of not being an illegal "undetectable" gun. You could fill that spot with Diane Feinstein's tears and it would function the same.

But yea, I remember that diehard quote. Bruce Willis didn't want to say it because it was BS but they made him. The media started panicking about Glocks shortly after that. That type of gun never existed and a Glock 7 would have been some sort of curtain rod or something with his numbering system.

It's similar to the Black Talon hollow points that became "armor piercing" when the media heard about them. I'm amazed that people are flipping their shit about this crappy 1-shot zip gun when a printable AR-15 lower has been available from DEFCAD for a long time. I guess the AR-15 lower fear doesn't kick in because most are unaware that the rest of the gun can be purchased by anyone else without any sort of check or regulation.

Fucking hilarious! It really does sum up the entire gun control debate within the media and politicians.

[elevenism]

Facebook = "oh wow, everyone I went to school with is either a nazi, a commie or believes in alien reptiles"

lolz.
And for me, it's like "oh wow, it turns out everyone i know grew up to be a card-carrying hard right ultra-conservative prick."
They also believe that the president was born in kenya, and is a socialist/fascist muslim dictator in the making.
And i'm talking about DRUG people! I'm talking about poor struggling long haired musicians here!
Of course, part of it may be that i'm from TEXAS. (sorry about george w. bush. i think every texan should be forced to apologize for george w. bush.R

As far as the 3-D printable gun, i am torn between "Oh shit, that's utterly fucking terrifying" and "Oh shit, that's the coolest fucking thing i've ever seen."

[DigitalChaos]

That's how most of my high school friends turned out. 95% of my political arguments over the last decade have been against right-wingers.

And 3D printed guns are the best thing for the gun problem topic. It will force people to eventually give up on the gun control angle and focus on more productive approaches. Stopping the drug war, focusing on poverty and education, mental health, etc

[Jinsai]

And 3D printed guns are the best thing for the gun problem topic. It will force people to eventually give up on the gun control angle and focus on more productive approaches. Stopping the drug war, focusing on poverty and education, mental health, etc

Wait, so because you can print a single-shot, comparatively low powered weapon on a very expensive printer, that's going to end the war on drugs?

Gun fetishists love to claim that gun control legislation never accomplishes anything, but there's a reason you can't go into a Walmart and buy an uzi.

[DigitalChaos]

Wait, so because you can print a single-shot, comparatively low powered weapon on a very expensive printer, that's going to end the war on drugs?

Gun fetishists love to claim that gun control legislation never accomplishes anything, but there's a reason you can't go into a Walmart and buy an uzi.

Wait, so because you can print a single-shot, comparatively low powered weapon on a very expensive printer, that's a problem we need to legislate?

Apparently the answer is "yes" from the pro-gun-control side. So the question is: Will a complete inability to enforce information control cause these people to try other avenues of fixing the issue?

Do tell me how Walmart's product selection is going to impact the availability of a 2MB file on the internet. Did Walmart stop music piracy and save the old music industry? Did Walmart's lack of DeCSS on the shelves prevent people from copying DVDs? Did Walmart stop the spread of top secret documents belonging to governments around the world?

DEFCAD turned the 2nd amendment issue into a 1st amendment issue. Good luck trying to suppress the 1st amendment!

[Jinsai]

it's another thing that they will make illegal to trade on the internet. It's what the creator of this star trek prop wanted, and he wants it to happen while he screams out "freeeeeeeeeedom!!!!" This won't be the first thing that will be illegal to trade/download on the internet.

You're also intentionally missing the point about how gun control legislation HAS effectively banned uzis. That's something that was accomplished.

[DigitalChaos]

And as technology advances, it will become more apparent just how futile banning gun information really is. In no time we saw a high-cap magazine, AR-15, and a single shot zip gun. How long until we see more? How long until prices come down enough for this to become an issue? Those laws really stopped media piracy!

I can't wait for the NRA to form an equivalent to the RIAA/MPAA.

[Dra508]

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/08/open-...hiccups-in-dc/

There's a difference between civil disobedience and violating local gun laws. I guess a civics lesson is in order.

[DigitalChaos]

I am also seeing TONS of people jump onto the "fuck government control" side the moment this became a 1st amendment issue. It's fucking brilliant. Every geek on the internet is joining in. I am even seeing old-timers from the 1960's Free Speech Movement join in.

[DigitalChaos]

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/08/open-...hiccups-in-dc/

There's a difference between civil disobedience and violating local gun laws. I guess a civics lesson is in order.

I posted lots about this earlier. You are wrong about the difference. Civil disobedience IS violation of laws that you disagree with. I don't think it's going to be productive to gun rights and I'm certainly not going to join in. The toy gun march the day before (by a libertarian protesting the protest) should be hilarious though.