Coil

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I went into that Coil FB group several months back to ask some random question and it somehow got railroaded into this discussion about how Cold Spring as a label should be generally avoided because it has ties to fascists or something? Then it spiraled out into a sub-discussion about how Coil themselves could be considered fascist because just being in that scene meant you were crossing paths with fascists. I never took anything they did to have roots in fascism though. Paganism, yes. Fascism, no..

That Dais re-re-issue of Time Machines is a joke, too. They announced its release 24 hours before its pre-order and then it predictably sold out in about 2.7 seconds, because it had a pressing quantity in the low-40s. Fuck these vanity labels who are completely out of touch, producing these things in such low quantity, so flipper dick douchebags on the secondary market can charge 4X the original asking price. I refuse to believe these labels are oblivious to such gouging that doesn’t give true fans of a given artist any chance to acquire the product at a fair price. I don’t care if they went to the “Stone Circle of Zion” or wherever to get the actual incense Jhon burned onstage for this package; it’s a cash-grab that I’m sure the band would have laughed at the idea of, and I couldn’t give less of a fuck if Drew McDowell signed it. Stick with the original press or one of the 2017 reissue variants with the remastered sound, which is significant..

Who knew that a one-off drone album would be so heavily milked 20+ years later. If Dais pulls this $100+, 40 copies only bullshit with the MTPITD reissue, I imagine Coil fans will be rightly burning down their corporate offices in protest..

[katara]

Didn't Coil often have very limited runs of their albums with weirdly specific numbers?

Also: Avebury is a pretty cool place.

[jmtd]

Don’t want it? Don’t buy it. I’m happy to ignore it entirely and promptly forget it ever existed. Meanwhile I don’t begrudge some people paying their mortgages especially in this difficult time.

[tricil]

I went into that Coil FB group several months back to ask some random question and it somehow got railroaded into this discussion about how Cold Spring as a label should be generally avoided because it has ties to fascists or something? Then it spiraled out into a sub-discussion about how Coil themselves could be considered fascist because just being in that scene meant you were crossing paths with fascists. I never took anything they did to have roots in fascism though. Paganism, yes. Fascism, no..

That Dais re-re-issue of Time Machines is a joke, too. They announced its release 24 hours before its pre-order and then it predictably sold out in about 2.7 seconds, because it had a pressing quantity in the low-40s. Fuck these vanity labels who are completely out of touch, producing these things in such low quantity, so flipper dick douchebags on the secondary market can charge 4X the original asking price. I refuse to believe these labels are oblivious to such gouging that doesn’t give true fans of a given artist any chance to acquire the product at a fair price. I don’t care if they went to the “Stone Circle of Zion” or wherever to get the actual incense Jhon burned onstage for this package; it’s a cash-grab that I’m sure the band would have laughed at the idea of, and I couldn’t give less of a fuck if Drew McDowell signed it. Stick with the original press or one of the 2017 reissue variants with the remastered sound, which is significant..

Who knew that a one-off drone album would be so heavily milked 20+ years later. If Dais pulls this $100+, 40 copies only bullshit with the MTPITD reissue, I imagine Coil fans will be rightly burning down their corporate offices in protest..

This was just had made art editions to go with the extras from the 2017 pressing. Dais always does this not just Coil.

[ton]

Horse Rotorvator used to be on streaming services but it seems to have been taken down in the last few weeks. Maybe even longer since I hadn't listened to it in a while. I really liked that album so I was disappointed to not find it anymore. I'll have to find a download somewhere or buy a physical copy, though I have no CD player or vinyl turntable.

EDIT: Nevermind, I did a simple Google search for the album and found a download. Silly me.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

https://thevinylfactory.com/features...10-albums/amp/

An awesome introductory guide to anyone looking to get into Coil’s nearly-impenetrable oeuvre..

I had forgotten how great MTPITD 2 is, as it often gets overshadowed by Vol. 1. ‘Where Are You?’ is an amazing, underrated classic in their discography..

[jmtd]

Tiny golden books <3

There’s a little indie book binders near where I live with the same name and I often wonder if they took it from Coil. I should ask them! https://tinygoldenbooks.com/

Or maybe it’s a reference to “little golden books”. Maybe they both are

[stlkr]

They’ve dropped in price. I sold my V1 recently for about 300. Also I dropped my Admin for the Coil group to focus on some other things so hopefully they don’t drop the ball on keeping the fashiies out in my absence.

oh Adam it's you? Adam here.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

ICYMI, some ingenious mf realized about seven years back that the vinyl version of The New Backwards and the 1989 experimental horror film Begotten were basically made for each other..



Jhon and Christ would have been honored..

[Leviathant]

Does anyone know why there's so much inconsistency on the spelling of Geoff's stage name? To be more specific, I've seen it spelt John, Jhon, and Jhonn.

See also: Al/Alien/Alain/Alejandro Jourgensen.

Artists gonna art.

[vav]

At the end of the day the original members of coil aren’t seeing any of the proceeds of any new issues so I’m less concerned about what is legit or not. I think it’s double standards to criticise Hyde for not having publishing rights but give McDowall a pass on the same thing. I’m more annoyed by Hyde’s lack of honesty about the provenance of “new” mixes and tracks.

Edit: I totally accept that McDowall wrote Time Machines which I love; I just don’t think we are in a strong position to judge Hyde’s contribution on some of the other material

Not a double standard at all, it has to do with who wrote the music. Drew was behind the releases he wrote music for and therefore has rights to re-release at his leisure as a surviving artist. Thighps, same thing. Look, at the end of the day i like Danny a lot and we used to get along great but he's taken a lot of liberties with what he's releasing. And i know for a fact he did write some music that did end up on records and i'll even offer he was instrumental to Coil's work for a period of time. But he's gone way beyond what he wrote and with Stolen & Contaminated, completely shut out the person who is a surviving member and helped write that music.

You go to the well too many times, it dries up.

Not being on Facebook, could you describe some of the stuff fascists are trying to get away with there? Does Coil historically have a fan base with such leanings, more so than that of other artists/bands?

Sorry i missed this and the delay in response. Coil and indeed most of that experimental/industrial/esoteric scene in the UK in that particular time period had a lot of musicians and artists and weirdos, and so a lot of people got together and made music and hung in the same circles. Boyd Rice was around, Douglas Pearce was around, etc. So folks who generally like Coil generally like NON, Death In June, Current 93 etc, bands they all played in and swapped members and whatever. Geoff & Peter disengaged from Boyd when he start going all close to fasshy, Douglas P same thing (and i'm not gunna do the Are or Aren't debate today) but Death in June fans and Boyd Rice fans can be just as fasshy adjacent or sometimes outright. I have a low tolerance for that so when people outed themselves as racists/anti-muslims/euro nationalists etc, i took great pleasure in removing them. Geoff & Peter would have wanted it that way, they had no use for that kind of person.

oh Adam it's you? Adam here.

hi bb yeah, i signed up a few years ago when i figured out the Roxy Music sample in Closer to let everyone know and then check in every once in awhile to answer Coil questions.

Does anyone know why there's so much inconsistency on the spelling of Geoff's stage name? To be more specific, I've seen it spelt John, Jhon, and Jhonn.

Cuz that's how he did it. He's gone by Geff, Geoff, Jeff, John, Jhon, Jhonn, Legion (i think?), Otto, Rufus....

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Astral Disaster is such an amazing, under-appreciated album of theirs. I’m always blown away by the vibe I get when it’s playing. I think it tends to get overlooked due in part to all the hype surrounding the MTPITD albums back then, and the seemingly endless amount of material released from 1998 up until Jhonn’s death. They recorded that album in only two days, and still had enough left over for an additional collection of alternate versions/mixes..

ANS is another one in their discog that doesn’t get enough appreciation. What an absolute mind fuck that whole set is..

[jmtd]

What is this I don’t even

https://bleep.com/release/197654-coi...measured-time-

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Demons generally enter in through my ears..

I don't like what I hear..

I don't like what I see..

Ghosts vomit over me..

There's too much blood in my alcohol..

Can't get enough to numb me..

[eversonpoe]

What is this I don’t even

https://bleep.com/release/197654-coi...measured-time-

and also this: https://www.forcedexposure.com/Catal...RUG.019LP.html

i got the prescription edition of astral disaster, and i got unfinished musics, but now there's a volume 2? jeez. and no tracklist on that page, so i'm not even sure what's really​ on it.

[jmtd]

Two long Backwards-era remixes makes my Danny Hyde sense tingle. No credits in the bleep blurb I saw

[stlkr]

Two long Backwards-era remixes makes my Danny Hyde sense tingle. No credits in the bleep blurb I saw

just two tracks from Swanyard with added new samples of Geff voice and trumpet. not worth spending money tbh.

[wizfan]

I can't help but feel at least partially guilty about this. I mean, I'm the one who started this whole mess when I began negotiating with Danny regarding the release of Uncoiled. Even back then, the Coil FB group hated my guts for helping Cold Spring release Recoiled and Backwards, because they said that releasing "unfinished material" was against Peter and Jhonn's wishes (though it's sad that it's now a cesspool of fascists that would make any Death in June FB group feel jealous). Like many of us, I wish Danny was just a little bit more transparent with me and Levi back in 2012. I even thought he was the person least likely to make cash-grab releases, and look where we are now...

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I mean, I'm glad Gay Man's Guide to Safer Sex finally got a proper -- if technically unofficial -- release. And according to a guy who posted on the FB group the other day, the Backwards album came out nearly identical to what Peter gave the guy on a CD-r "decades ago", so who knows. I'm just happy to have anything of theirs. It's unfortunate and unsurprising that people would capitalize and bootleg the shit out of this stuff, but that's the nature of the game and has been for quite a long time..

What's been presented as Backwards/The New Backwards/Swanyard stands as a fascinating portrait of a nearly pitch black period of their era, if nothing else. The purists may stand against it, but am I glad it's out there for public consumption after all this time? Absolutely..

[Leviathant]

I can't help but feel at least partially guilty about this. I mean, I'm the one who started this whole mess when I began negotiating with Danny regarding the release of Uncoiled. Even back then, the Coil FB group hated my guts for helping Cold Spring release Recoiled and Backwards, because they said that releasing "unfinished material" was against Peter and Jhonn's wishes (though it's sad that it's now a cesspool of fascists that would make any Death in June FB group feel jealous). Like many of us, I wish Danny was just a little bit more transparent with me and Levi back in 2012. I even thought he was the person least likely to make cash-grab releases, and look where we are now...

You've got nothing to feel guilty about! Personally, as you know, I think it's pretty cool that all this lost and reworked material is available to listen to, even if I haven't bothered with Swanyard or A Prison Of Measured Time or any of the other weird scraps that have popped up.

Compared to the weird hoarding tendencies from other folks who claim to have say over what gets released, which culminated in a totally half-cocked "Threshold Archives" one-time release, honestly I'm okay with Danny's approach compared to the mythmaking and psuedo-mysticism.

The one thing that's a bummer is the inability of the legitimate rights-holders to work out agreements among each other regarding these kinds of releases. At the same time, I've definitely seen people decry Danny's releases while simultaneously showing off bootleg records they picked up. There's a lot of weird drama that I don't understand.

[eversonpoe]

and also this: https://www.forcedexposure.com/Catal...RUG.019LP.html

i got the prescription edition of astral disaster, and i got unfinished musics, but now there's a volume 2? jeez. and no tracklist on that page, so i'm not even sure what's really​ on it.

anyone have any more info on this? not sure if my post got lost in the shuffle before.

[vav]

I can't help but feel at least partially guilty about this. I mean, I'm the one who started this whole mess when I began negotiating with Danny regarding the release of Uncoiled. Even back then, the Coil FB group hated my guts for helping Cold Spring release Recoiled and Backwards, because they said that releasing "unfinished material" was against Peter and Jhonn's wishes (though it's sad that it's now a cesspool of fascists that would make any Death in June FB group feel jealous). Like many of us, I wish Danny was just a little bit more transparent with me and Levi back in 2012. I even thought he was the person least likely to make cash-grab releases, and look where we are now...

Nah, nothing to feel guilty about, there were unreleased passes at mixes, why not go for it. While it's true Geoff & Peter were meticulous about what got released, it's just as fair to say they just lost interest in stuff & forgot to get on with it. I mean shit, their planned releases outnumber the ones they actually did by like 2 to 1. It's neat to look back retrospectively at how the sausage was made.

I mean, I'm glad Gay Man's Guide to Safer Sex finally got a proper -- if technically unofficial -- release. And according to a guy who posted on the FB group the other day, the Backwards album came out nearly identical to what Peter gave the guy on a CD-r "decades ago", so who knows. I'm just happy to have anything of theirs. It's unfortunate and unsurprising that people would capitalize and bootleg the shit out of this stuff, but that's the nature of the game and has been for quite a long time..

What's been presented as Backwards/The New Backwards/Swanyard stands as a fascinating portrait of a nearly pitch black period of their era, if nothing else. The purists may stand against it, but am I glad it's out there for public consumption after all this time? Absolutely..

Gay Man's Guide is cool piece, the other bits are more or less just demos/alt mixes used for the film itself. I agree it's nice to have it collected (more or less)..i still havent matched the tracks to the Archives to see if everything is there.

Backwards (not the demos, but Backwards as ya'll know it) had no fewer than 3 "final" passes to it while figuring out the track order & mix to create the master. Given what actually got "released" the differences are academic at this point. "intro" is a little longer here, this fades out a little longer there, etc and honestly aren't worth quibbling over. Swanyard i finally broke down and listened to and i'm kinda glad to have it, it fills in a lot of missing pieces from the Demos done in Chiswick or wherever to Swanyard before heading to New Orleans in a way that i wasn't quite expecting.

anyone have any more info on this? not sure if my post got lost in the shuffle before.

Good question. There were alternate takes of several of the songs & a few false starts as well as jam or two that got whittled down later, but i was fairly certain everything from the sessions was released with the last "unpublished" album....so i dunno. Could just be a DAT dump of whatever's left. The real standout from the demos is that longform 14+ minute Krautrock jam, i think that got released on the first volume.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

The Backwards demos -- in all their shitty 90s mp3 audio quality -- have now appeared on Apple Music, with a typically-Apple inaccurate track listing. WTF is with this group's incessant copyright/licensing woes..?

[vav]

The Backwards demos -- in all their shitty 90s mp3 audio quality -- have now appeared on Apple Music, with a typically-Apple inaccurate track listing. WTF is with this group's incessant copyright/licensing woes..?

This, and the other recent Apple Music releases, should not be up there. It's probably some random person putting them up hoping to cash in for a bit.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Oh, I get it. I was bummed out when Horse Rotorvator and Scatology were unceremoniously yanked off the service, only for Love's Secret Domain to conspicuously show up there a few days later. Now these demos. It all makes me morbidly fascinated to see what will pop up next. Moon's Milk? MTPITD 1 & 2? The Remote fuckin' Viewer..?

I suppose I could just spend an afternoon indoors ripping all of these albums from CD and loading them into iTunes, and I'm sure I have most of their stuff on my phone already. It's just another bewildering facet of this band's seemingly free-for-all copyright legacy as we're now almost a decade on from PC's passing. Even Danny Hyde is left lost as to what the fuck is going on..

[tricil]

Oh, I get it. I was bummed out when Horse Rotorvator and Scatology were unceremoniously yanked off the service, only for Love's Secret Domain to conspicuously show up there a few days later. Now these demos. It all makes me morbidly fascinated to see what will pop up next. Moon's Milk? MTPITD 1 & 2? The Remote fuckin' Viewer..?

I suppose I could just spend an afternoon indoors ripping all of these albums from CD and loading them into iTunes, and I'm sure I have most of their stuff on my phone already. It's just another bewildering facet of this band's seemingly free-for-all copyright legacy as we're now almost a decade on from PC's passing. Even Danny Hyde is left lost as to what the fuck is going on..

Just download their entire discography in FLAC from archive.org, optionally convert to Apple lossless via XLD or equivalent, and import to iTunes.

[vav]

Oh, I get it. I was bummed out when Horse Rotorvator and Scatology were unceremoniously yanked off the service, only for Love's Secret Domain to conspicuously show up there a few days later. Now these demos. It all makes me morbidly fascinated to see what will pop up next. Moon's Milk? MTPITD 1 & 2? The Remote fuckin' Viewer..?

I suppose I could just spend an afternoon indoors ripping all of these albums from CD and loading them into iTunes, and I'm sure I have most of their stuff on my phone already. It's just another bewildering facet of this band's seemingly free-for-all copyright legacy as we're now almost a decade on from PC's passing. Even Danny Hyde is left lost as to what the fuck is going on..

MTPITD will go up next probably when the LP releases.

[Leviathant]

MTPITD will go up next probably when the LP releases.

Literally every time I see this thread update, I'm clicking in here to see if I missed a preorder for MTPITD

[jmtd]

Same!

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I've already set aside a shitload of money for a copy (or two) because you just know it's going to be in some ridiculously scarce quantity and every flipper dick who even knows what Coil is will be swooping in to ravage the supply in hopes of a 700% mark-up..