Joy Division/New Order

[jmtd]

Hooky left the band *14 years ago* now. Move on!

[Erneuert]

He's annoying. In one breath he's dissing New Order, then in another interview he's praising Bernard and the band. Hot and cold. Just because he didn't feel like continuing on anymore and wanted to start doing COVERS of both bands... like what was the point? He left to do covers of his own band?

[imail724]

Listening to both of these tonight.

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

I know you know.

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

Premieres in 3 days.

[jmtd]

I love this song. I wonder whether this promo will be the final push needed to shift the last of the Power, Corruption & Lies boxed sets. The movement ones are all sold from the label POV now I hear. Or maybe in NO fashion they’ll sell them all before this video lands.

[Erneuert]

I love this song. I wonder whether this promo will be the final push needed to shift the last of the Power, Corruption & Lies boxed sets. The movement ones are all sold from the label POV now I hear. Or maybe in NO fashion they’ll sell them all before this video lands.

Unrelated, but don’t you find it odd that Peter Hook left the band in 2007 only to... play the exact same songs by both bands with a shittier band and him on vocals? For the love of dick just get back with your roots, m8. Keep your son along with you if that’s what you want, that’s sweet, but come on.

Edit: also, this is nice:

[jmtd]

I think it started out as a “fuck you” to Bernard, to stake a claim of co-ownership over the songs even though he was out of the band. But I think the initial response to playing full albums and deep cuts was so positive he made that their USP. And it was great to hear some of those tracks that NO never play live.

Meanwhile NO have finally diversified a little bit on set lists and did that amazing one-off (or three off?) project with Liam Gillick and I can’t help but think they’ve felt some pressure from Hooky to up their game a bit. Also: Gillian rejoined, and they recorded their best album for decades, neither of which I think would have happened of Hooky hadn’t left.

So in a weird way I think it’s generally been good for fans!

[Erneuert]

Good points!

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Hooky would rejoin NO tomorrow if they offered. It will never happen because Bernard hates him. Its worse than Liam and Noel Gallagher. They should just get in a room and discuss all their issues but it will never happen but Bernard seems to be the main one holding the grudge

[jmtd]

I don’t see what would be the point of him rejoining. They’re both doing great apart. It’s been 13 ish years now since they split. That’s a longer period of time than from the release of Movement to the release of Republic, ie the entire factory era.

[jmtd]

AoC video is now live.

Just realised they missed an opportunity for an Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez cross promo!

[Erneuert]

All these recent videos are looking too... modern. Let’s not even start about the Unknown Pleasures ones.

Also, why doesn’t this thread get more visits/visitors?!

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Because Joy Division has been dead for 40 years and New Order has released one album in 15 years

[Substance242]

I just have to smile about releasing Complete Music one year after Music Complete, love them both, why the fuck not, right? Typical New Order. :-)

[jmtd]

I was a bit irked by complete music. I bought the deluxe version of music complete, in the box, with supposedly exclusive extended mixes of all tracks. A year later you can buy the same tracks on complete music for a very reasonable price except two tracks have been swapped out, because (in new order’s words) the original ones were not are good enough. It was a bait and switch.

So I sold my CM box (and got back a fair amount of it’s price), bought CM, and swore off buying any deluxe sets ever again. I only broke that promise once since, for Bird Box deluxe, and no regrets there.

[Substance242]

Songs that Changed Music: New Order - Blue Monday:



...and also this one:

[Erneuert]

Some very interesting comments on this video re: Ceremony:




I was at this gig. I also have a low generation (2nd or 3rd) tape of it. This is the same pitch that my tape is. The tape creasing sound in the early part of the song is there as well. A few comments on the song. Ian often worked on lyrics in rehearsals and also changed them from early live versions (Atmosphere is a good example of this). He finally settled on the lyrics when the song was recorded in the studio. At that point he then filed the lyric sheet with all the corrections. These are the ones that are in the book So This Is Permanence. Debbie has all of the known lyric sheets. Because Ian hadn’t finished working on the lyrics when he died, he hadn’t filed the lyric sheet and nobody knows where it went. It may of course have been destroyed. In a lonely place which was never performed live also went through a number of changes of lyrics. There are quite a few recordings of the rehearsals of this from it’s early incarnation recorded in April 1980 (called walking away from the stars) though to the final recordings 4 days before he died. When ceremony was performed at Birmingham it had no title (it is listed on the set list as “new one”. When New Order recorded it in September 1980 in New York they were using the same instruments that were used in Joy Division. The following night all,of their gear was stolen and never recovered. So instrumentally this is what the song would have sounded like had Ian lived. Vocally all would have been different of course.

>>

This song has to be haunted or something. I mean, think about it. In every recorded version of it (by Joy Division) the first verse and the first chorus are always inaudible, their contents still a mystery to this day. New Order's version is undoubtedly different to the one Ian Curtis originally wrote. It is very sad that there may never be a clean version of this song, ever.

>>



Haunted is the absolute definition of Joy Division. Like no other band before them or since, their music is almost like some kind of seance, where a glimpse of 'the other side' starts to break through, but not quite enough to pull it clearly into focus. It's like when you stare up at the stars on a clear night and try to look at the really distant ones; you can only see them when you look slightly away from them. That's the way I feel about Joy Division, they were like a comet that passed by briefly, you only had that one moment to see it and it won't ever be repeated in our lifetime. Their mystery won't ever be explained away or digitised, they'll stand for all eternity as an anomaly in music that can't ever be grasped.

>>

Yeah, the original version of the song that you hear in the clearer version of the live song. You hear him say "Picture me, in ten years time, watching."

>>



Mukunda Charan“Pictures me, in ten years’ time - watching’. NO changed the lyrics into a suicide note, though Stephen Morris sings these lyrics on the Western Works demo, so NO had these lyrics but changed them. ‘Absent years, these sinking ships’ is another line you can pick up.

[jmtd]

Reading that reminds me of my long stalled proposal to start a “musical revolution” wiki to properly capture all the stuff currently only in YouTube comments and forum posts.

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

[Erneuert]

Reading that reminds me of my long stalled proposal to start a “musical revolution” wiki to properly capture all the stuff currently only in YouTube comments and forum posts.

Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

Fuck yes!

[eversonpoe]

Some very interesting comments on this video re: Ceremony:

don't mind me, just sitting here crying, like i do every time i hear this song, except harder this time.

[fillow]

Also, why doesn’t this thread get more visits/visitors?!

Thanks for posting the podcast. I went through the whole series and now I'm inspired to try getting into New Order again.
I'm super into JD but I was completely disappointed in NO way way back when my taste was only forming. I didn't really know any details of their history besides the most basic fact that NO was formed by JD guys after Ian's death and I totally expected them to keep pushing the post punk agenda. I broadened my musical horizons greatly since then, but NO were always kinda kept on the back burner.

[Erneuert]

[Erneuert]

Totally random thought, but after this recent post I made about Scatman John: https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...350#post530350

I found myself listening to this song called "Everything Changes":



It’s basically a rap vocal.

Then I started listening to the lyrics and the way they’re sung. And I’m like, oh...



Same style of singing and same type of lyrical message, lol. And almost same song title.