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Thread: 12 dead, 59 Injured During Shooting at Dark Knight Rises Premiere

  1. #31
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    It's still very surreal to hear my town being mentioned on CNN - he went to one of my rival high schools, and the rest of his family has been hounded all day by helicopters and media coverage

    The count as it stands is 12 dead, 58 wounded by either gunfire/shrapnel/teargas, 70 total people involved in this tragedy, making it the biggest massacre in U.S. history

    I can only hope the apartment he has in Colorado will be diffused without any further injury - I still cannot believe he lived essentially right around the corner from me

    Those who were/are affected by this tragedy will be in my thoughts.
    Last edited by PQHooligan; 07-20-2012 at 09:59 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PQHooligan View Post
    The count as it stands is 12 dead, 58 wounded by either gunfire/shrapnel/teargas, 70 total people involved in this tragedy, making it the biggest massacre in U.S. history
    Ok... I don't want to diminish how profoundly horrifying what's happened here is, but from my immediate memory I know that over 30 people died in the Virginia Tech shootings.

    On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
    It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny. People usually feel guilty about joking about things like this... I don't understand why that filter isn't here in this situation. Are people just getting this jaded?
    Last edited by Jinsai; 07-20-2012 at 10:43 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
    It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny.
    Welcome to the internet post-4chan, Reddit, Imgur, Icanhascheezburger etc..

    Everything has to have some stupid "funny" remark, everyone thinks they're a comedian. Nothing is sacred it seems.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Ok... I don't want to diminish how profoundly horrifying what's happened here is, but from my immediate memory I know that over 30 people died in the Virginia Tech shootings.

    On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
    It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny. People usually feel guilty about joking about things like this... I don't understand why that filter isn't here in this situation. Are people just getting this jaded?
    Quote Originally Posted by thelastdisciple View Post
    Welcome to the internet post-4chan, Reddit, Imgur, Icanhascheezburger etc..

    Everything has to have some stupid "funny" remark, everyone thinks they're a comedian. Nothing is sacred it seems.
    Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.
    Except that that's utter nonsense. Making fun of a tragedy, during it, makes people feel worse. If not, there's something wrong with you.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.
    and that's how The Onion has been dealing with this news, with smart satire. And yeah, it's funny in a gallows humor kind of way, but it's also dark and devoid of easy and moronic punchlines.... and they're actually saying something that isn't taking advantage of the disaster as the punchline.

    This shit I've been seeing on my facebook feed though? It makes the people posting this stuff seem like unfunny monsters who think joking about mass murder is cute.

    Like "Went to see The Dark Knight Rises in CO, theater's full Took a piss, came back and now the whole theater's empty! Win!"

    That shit isn't funny. Not just because of insensitivity, but because the joke sucks. On a level that purely addresses the humor. That sucks. And if you want to say that this is "the best time for that" you're a fucking dork.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 07-21-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DF118 View Post
    Except that that's utter nonsense. Making fun of a tragedy, during it, makes people feel worse. If not, there's something wrong with you.
    Just because someone laughs at something doesn't mean they're happy about it. It's entirely possible to find a joke funny and still feel bad about the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    and that's how The Onion has been dealing with this news, with smart satire. And yeah, it's funny in a gallows humor kind of way, but it's also dark and devoid of easy and moronic punchlines.... and they're actually saying something that isn't taking advantage of the disaster as the punchline.

    This shit I've been seeing on my facebook feed though? It makes the people posting this stuff seem like unfunny monsters who think joking about mass murder is cute.

    Like "Went to see The Dark Knight Rises in CO, theater's full Took a piss, came back and now the whole theater's empty! Win!"

    That shit isn't funny. Not just because of insensitivity, but because the joke sucks. On a level that purely addresses the humor. That sucks. And if you want to say that this is "the best time for that" you're a fucking dork.
    Hey, I'll be the first to berate uninspired, shitty jokes any time. But I'm not going to say 'Well thought out social satire is acceptable during these times, but tired Facebook jokes aren't.' That distinction just seems arbitrary and silly to me.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    What's even more twisted, in a bizarre coincidental fucked up way is one of the victims was in the Toronto Eaton Centre mall shooting last month. Well, she literally just stepped outside of the mall when the bullets started to fly. She wrote on a blog that she "had a queezy feeling about being in the mall and needed to get out"

    That's some fucked up "Final Destintion" shit right there!

    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/cr...351/story.html
    I don't know about you, but just to be clear my facepalms aren't always about shooting down something one has said. I had to literally facepalm this particularly for the whole bit about that specific victim's backstory.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magr„o View Post
    I don't know about you, but just to be clear my facepalms aren't always about shooting down something one has said. I had to literally facepalm this particularly for the whole bit about that specific victim's backstory.
    Alright, fair enough. I usually facepalm when someone says something ridiculious that I disagree with, but I can understand where you're coming from.
    Should have just wrote an actual opinion about the victims backstory, that's what we're here for we're on a discussion forum, I linked that up to start a discussion on the lady and what if anything anyone thought about that, if it was just a random coincidence or what, because either way that's kinda weird.

    But all things asside, it kind of makes me weary about going to a theatre now to be honest. I know you shouldn't live in fear, and the chances of this happening are 1 in 5 million, but It's still concerning. People say you can die at any time, on the bus to work, in a car crash, plane crash, knifed in the back-alley walking home at night.

    But something about this just doesn't seem right, why a movie theatre, why at a Batman release? The suspect didn't seem to have any previous connections with anyone in that theatre, and it's suspicious that a unemployed med student would have this kind of money to buy SWAT team type equipment. He had on bullet proof vests, groin guards and the whole 9 yards. And yet he just surrended to the police without a fight, and then told them his apartment was rigged with expolosives that was a trap for them... Something seriously doesn't add up here.

    This was not a random attack, this took extensive planning, but what were his motives, and was he working with someone else?

    There are seriously some odd fucked up stories out there these days of people behaving abnormally and out of charachter as if they were under some sort of a mind control substance.

    I'm sure with time when they get this guy talking when we maybe fill in some of the blanks here, who knows, maybe we'll never have an answer. But it is very sick whatever his plan was. Just too many fucked up people in the world today really makes you think twice about wanting to leave the house again.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    Alright, fair enough. I usually facepalm when someone says something ridiculious that I disagree with, but I can understand where you're coming from.
    Should have just wrote an actual opinion about the victims backstory, that's what we're here for we're on a discussion forum, I linked that up to start a discussion on the lady and what if anything anyone thought about that, if it was just a random coincidence or what, because either way that's kinda weird.

    But all things asside, it kind of makes me weary about going to a theatre now to be honest. I know you shouldn't live in fear, and the chances of this happening are 1 in 5 million, but It's still concerning. People say you can die at any time, on the bus to work, in a car crash, plane crash, knifed in the back-alley walking home at night.

    But something about this just doesn't seem right, why a movie theatre, why at a Batman release? The suspect didn't seem to have any previous connections with anyone in that theatre, and it's suspicious that a unemployed med student would have this kind of money to buy SWAT team type equipment. He had on bullet proof vests, groin guards and the whole 9 yards. And yet he just surrended to the police without a fight, and then told them his apartment was rigged with expolosives that was a trap for them... Something seriously doesn't add up here.

    This was not a random attack, this took extensive planning, but what were his motives, and was he working with someone else?

    There are seriously some odd fucked up stories out there these days of people behaving abnormally and out of charachter as if they were under some sort of a mind control substance.

    I'm sure with time when they get this guy talking when we maybe fill in some of the blanks here, who knows, maybe we'll never have an answer. But it is very sick whatever his plan was. Just too many fucked up people in the world today really makes you think twice about wanting to leave the house again.


    This is all very tragic; I'm not in a disussing mood in regards to very specifically tragic bits on this whole subject such as that one. It's done, and all so bad. I have nothing really to say. So I facepalmed. This incident definitely hits me harder than if I just heard about it and didn't go to a midnight showing or even plan on it.

    I personally wouldn't mind the implementation of a more clear security measure in place at all theaters. It wouldn't be unlike our country to do... To be honest I'm surprised we didn't already. I know some people would argue that instills more fear, yada yada, but something usually has to happen for us to consider it... Well, there you go.

    I'd like to know more how he got in with that get-up... Did he enter the theater twice? Back door involved?
    Last edited by Amaro; 07-21-2012 at 08:01 AM.

  11. #41
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    No I think it's been mentioned that he went in with everyone else, propped open an exit, and then put his gear on and re-entered.

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    The "Dark Knight" fans are the most rabid fans on the Internet I've seen. I would guess that the shooter was partly inspired by Heath Ledger's Joker, in the sense that his mental illness made his mind focus on the kind of senseless violence that the Joker represents, "Some people just want to see the world burn..." etc... Also, I wonder if these shootings are only related to gun possession or to something else in addition. I suspect that these mass shootings wouldn't happen here even if gun rights were more liberal. I think America's social harshness, the over-medication of Americans, and the distrust of the government (conspiracy theories et al.) contribute to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post

    Christopher Nolan's response to the incident hits quite a few resonant notes for me (and a lot of us I imagine) as a moviegoer. Cancelling the Paris premiere was a nice gesture on his and Warner Bros. part.
    As a gesture, it makes more sense. There was very little chance of there being a repeat, in Paris of all places (this is what I thought the reason for the cancellation was when I first heard about it).




    Quote Originally Posted by Magtig View Post
    In response to joymode from the RGH thread:

    Then there's this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over...-39-in-uk.html
    "Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146
    Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
    (Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

    Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
    (equivalent to 195 US murders)"

    This is why guns are illegal here. The ban was reactionary and almost immediate.





    Also, apart from social pressure, I don't understand why the NRA deleted their tweet. Surely they would argue that their movement/message isn't affiliated with murderers anyway? Or that this guy had the right to bear arms? Essentially their movement/organisation/push to keep guns available and legal are what facilitated this.
    Last edited by icklekitty; 07-21-2012 at 08:10 AM.

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    What the fuck? This, plus removing the advertising? It makes no goddamn sense. Warner Bros. didn't kill those people. They have no responsibility whatsoever to do anything, ethical or otherwise.

    Well I'm guessing we're beyond the point of separating 'movie premiere' and 'mass shooting'. They seem to be one and the same now.

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    They have no responsibility. But uhhh...maybe it's just a gesture of kindness. Sort of a 'We know we're not responsible. Most of you know we're not responsible. But we're going to let the world recover. There's more important things to worry about right now.' kinda thing. Calm down, holy shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    They have no responsibility. But uhhh...maybe it's just a gesture of kindness. Sort of a 'We know we're not responsible. Most of you know we're not responsible. But we're going to let the world recover. There's more important things to worry about right now.' kinda thing. Calm down, holy shit.
    Well, with these 'gestures of kindness', they're doing nothing but digging themselves deeper into allowing the movie and the Batman name to bare the blame for this. Every news story is mentioning 'Batman'. There are tons of stupid-ass image macros popping up with a picture of Batman and some 'condolence' message.

    This shooting has nothing to do with a fictional character or the fictional universe or the films. But the media needs to put a spin on this, so they're going to use a movie as a scapegoat while ignoring the root of the problem. They need someone to blame, they can't just accept that some people are crazy.

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    You're both right from where I'm sitting, weird as it sounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    Well, with these 'gestures of kindness', they're doing nothing but digging themselves deeper into allowing the movie and the Batman name to bare the blame for this. Every news story is mentioning 'Batman'.
    That's because it happened at a screening of a Batman movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    There are tons of stupid-ass image macros popping up with a picture of Batman and some 'condolence' message.
    Welcome to social media in 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    This shooting has nothing to do with a fictional character or the fictional universe or the films. But the media needs to put a spin on this, so they're going to use a movie as a scapegoat while ignoring the root of the problem. They need someone to blame, they can't just accept that some people are crazy.
    Welcome to news and the world in 2012. (see also: every year before it).

    Perhaps we're just stating the obvious a bit much in this thread? Is it to be expected that Obama would make a statement? Yes, he's the president. Nolan? Yes, he's the director. Sure there's the part of us that knows in the year 2012, if they didn't, the media would destroy them for not doing so. But something as trivial as waiting until fucking Monday to release some box office numbers is hardly going to change the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Roger Ebert weighs in.

    Like with most other things he says, I agree.
    Me too. I love Ebert. And he's right: this is more of an issue of violence linked with publicity, not violence linked to the movies. Now there will be plenty of people on both sides, all sounding off on Facebook, as I've seen since yesterday: those who cluck in disapproval and announce that they will not be seeing the new Batman movie because violence in the media is encouraging this kind of insanity, and those who realize that the event itself was irrelevant, that at the center of this was a very sick man who (sooner or later) would've found any highly-publicized event where lots of people were going to show up and who would've done the exact same thing. If this took place at the Brave premiere a month ago, would we have started lobbying against archery and bears?

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    Due to backlash with this, I hear they're going to up the security at movie theaters. It was a fluke and isn't a playing ground for such acts like this to occur. Just wrong, eh.

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    this might seem silly but my thoughts are with Nolan too. If I made art that preached a specific message and explored a theme through out the entire series and some mad man did the EXACT thing that is in direct opposition to the message of my art, (during the screening itself no less) I'd feel really conflicted and could not help but feel irrational guilt. These movies have a really hopeful and powerful message when it comes down to it and they explore exactly why this kind of shit is so wrong and horrible. Just ugh. How tragic. I can relate as an artist.
    Last edited by littlemonkey613; 07-21-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magtig View Post
    In response to joymode from the RGH thread: States with the highest gun ownership have more gun deaths. Imagine that. Then there's this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over...-39-in-uk.html "Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146 Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648 (Since Britainís population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders) Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39 (equivalent to 195 US murders)"
    A chart like this...I honestly (and call me naive all day) cannot fathom how anyone could not see this is painfully obvious. Look at the difference between Canada and the U.S. Detroit and Windsor are separated by a RIVER. Windsor hasn't had a murder since something like 2009. I of course get that Detroit has more people, etc. etc. but whenever I see a comparison between two places so seemingly interconnected, I can't help but wonder about how the gun laws could make a dramatic impact. Also, Associated Press has announced that Sony, Fox, Disney, Universal and Lionsgate are joining " The Dark Knight Rises" distributor Warner Bros. in withholding box-office numbers out of respect for the victims.
    Last edited by october_midnight; 07-21-2012 at 02:20 PM.

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    In the UK, we had a shooting in a school in the mid to late nineties... We outlawed pistols and made checks for rifles and shotguns more stringent. We havent had any school shootings since, and in the past 15 years i think we've had maybe half a dozen public disorders involving firearms, and every year only about 50 people are killed ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm ). Compare that to america and explain the discrepency... The population is smaller, but the difference is still disproportionate. Also The situation has not descended into a country where only criminals wield firearms.

    I agree a total ban on firearms might cause problems, but clearly the US needs more regulation.... There IS a problem, and there are precedents where we can see regulation having a positive effect. Yet to hear a decent counter argument... The culture convinces people they need guns, imo

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    Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

    I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.

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    How the media should (not) handle mass murder(er)s:
    You can skip to 1:40 to hear the psychiatrist.


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    This short article does a very effective job of asking the question, 'How could this scene have played out if everyone in the theater had been packing a gun?'



    RE: Signs of Being Staged Article
    20k isn't that hard to get, especially when done over time. The article itself addresses readers, more knowledgeable about the products of paranoia, who say it all cost closer to 10k, and then goes on to say the difference between 10k, and 20k doesn't matter. Yes, actually, it does matter, especially in this case. Then it goes on about how governments around the world killed millions of their citizens after disarming them, and says a bunch of stuff about how the 'Fast and Furious' debacle was a secret plot to overturn second amendment rights.

    I stopped reading after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magtig View Post
    This short article does a very effective job of asking the question, 'How could this scene have played out if everyone in the theater had been packing a gun?'
    I've been seeing a surprisingly large number of people echoing the sentiment that the situation could have been avoided if there were armed people in the theater, and this sums up my immediate reaction to that pretty succinctly... although you can add the concern that this audience had additionally been blasted with tear gas.

    Some people are so heavily invested in the argument that "the solution to gun violence is more guns" that they don't even rationally consider the situation.

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    Surely more people (including unstable people) carrying guns to defend themselves just adds to unfounded paranoia and would lead to more Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman situations. Tragic though this event is, it's still pretty unlikely to happen to you.

    Feel really horrible for the people who just went to see a film and this happened to them though

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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

    I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.
    yeah, I read that article yesterday. Made me think alot about the situation, it does ask alot of good questions, like where he can afford all the equipment and where he learned how to Booby trap his apartment with explosives. Thinking there might be someone else invovled.

    I was thinking about posting the article here last night, but from my experience with ETS folks and "natural news" they think it's the biggest quackery website on the internet. Still, I enjoyed the read and it does raise alot of questions.

    It almost seems to odd that this guy would invest in all this equipment as though he was ready for a serious fight and then he just hands himself down to Police without a fight and then tells them his apartment is rigged with traps, almost like he DIDN'T want to do it and someone else was invovled.

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