Punk Rock

[Highly Psychological]

When i think of Magazine and certainly (even early) PIL i think of the term Post Punk.

This thread had highlighted how hard it is for me to define what Punk is, i usually just think of Punk as the first wave from 1976-1977 after that it all becomes Post Punk or descends into other sub genres. Hardcore, Ska, OI! Anarcho.
Punk was just a big bang. And 1978 onwards it went in various different directions.

[Sutekh]

yep you can trace seemingly weird lineages... pistols play the trade hall, leads to joy division & buzzcocks forming, buoys manchester scene, from there new order and mondays kickstart UK rave culture, which leads to the free parties culture that pervades today & helped propel drum n bass, dubstep etc

Personally I feel post punk is just Punk that doesn't want to sound like 1977 forever, journos and marketing wanted to draw a line so they did. PiL, Wire, Magazine, Joy Division, Killing Joke etc have a distinct sound from earlier punk but then Pistols sound as different to the Dead Kennedys as any post punk bands do

This is just in Sutekhland though & I don't think less of anyone for not buying into the narratives I do

[Jinsai]

yep you can trace seemingly weird lineages... pistols play the trade hall, leads to joy division & buzzcocks forming, buoys manchester scene, from there new order and mondays kickstart UK rave culture, which leads to the free parties culture that pervades today & helped propel drum n bass, dubstep etc

Personally I feel post punk is just Punk that doesn't want to sound like 1977 forever, journos and marketing wanted to draw a line so they did. PiL, Wire, Magazine, Joy Division, Killing Joke etc have a distinct sound from earlier punk but then Pistols sound as different to the Dead Kennedys as any post punk bands do

This is just in Sutekhland though & I don't think less of anyone for not buying into the narratives I do

I don't see post-punk as really the same thing... it's just different. I'd trace more similarity to the sound of hardcore and post-hardcore to the origins of punk rock music.

But you ask what I think "punk rock" is really, and I'm not entirely sure. I don't think it is defined by the poverty level of the musicians though. It was a reaction to prog and 70s wank, and it's basically a next logical step from garage rock. I'd say that bands like The Ramones, The Clash, and The Sex Pistols are usually perceived to be the pioneering groups of the mid-70s gestation of the genre, so that's why it's weird to me to see both The Ramones and The Clash get disputed for even really being punk in this thread.

Regarding Wire, I'd say Pink Flag is straight up punk rock, but they changed (into something more interesting imo).

EDIT: Not that it really means much, but the wikipedia consensus more or less agrees with me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock

[allegro]

I agree, I think even back then we never thought of anything past 1977 ("the year that punk broke") as punk; back then, we were calling it all "new wave" which ran the gamut from Talking Heads to Joy Division to late Stranglers.

Again, I HIGHLY recommend (for those who haven't already read it) the book "Please Kill Me." It was written by everybody who was THERE, and it's priceless.

I worked the door every weekend for a year in 1982 at Lili's 21 in Hamtramck, MI (stuck smack-dab in the middle of some of the worst areas of Detroit) and this guy, in his tribute to Lili (R.I.P.) REALLY sums it all up well, I think:

https://m.metrotimes.com/detroit/bid...nt?oid=2174558

But, you can never go home again. Some of this new punk is pretty good! There's lot of DIY ethic out there that is working the same way! We can't live in the past. We can analyze it, try to determine what it all "meant," appreciate it. I'm not sure what else we do with it, I haven't figured that out, yet.

[Sutekh]

Another bollocks reissue http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.asp...sitemID=177245

Pretty pointless but the live stuff sounds good

[Soma]

Bad Religion has a new album, entitled True North. I highly recommend it.

[thefragile_jake]

Osker was always one of my favorite 90's punk acts, sure they were a little bit in the pop punk sense with their first record but apparently they were one of the most hated bands on Epiptaph because of lead singer Devon Williams tirades against the punk scene and "fashion". He used to tirade the crowd a lot too.

Idle Will Kill was a great album and showed a lot more maturity. Wish we could've seen what was going to be next from them

[Sutekh]

Why dispute the clash as punk? Jinsai you say yourself punk was a reaction to prog 70s wank... The clash were champing at the bit to start going down that route... 3 words : tommy gun - as a toe in the MOR water, and then - sandinista = RIP the clash's punk cred. Great rock band but let's be real. Not punk! There may well be bullshit marketing terms for the sort of music joy division did (post punk) but really as people who microwave our own meals, we should be ready to call bollocks on such labels

saw leftover crack tonight. Good show but was it just karaoke for albums 10 years ago? Maybe. Loved every minute, but maybe!

[ILoveFestivals]

Great video of the Refused's first show in 14 year sat Coachella 2012.

[frankie teardrop]

Why dispute the clash as punk? Jinsai you say yourself punk was a reaction to prog 70s wank... The clash were champing at the bit to start going down that route... 3 words : tommy gun - as a toe in the MOR water, and then - sandinista = RIP the clash's punk cred. Great rock band but let's be real. Not punk! There may well be bullshit marketing terms for the sort of music joy division did (post punk) but really as people who microwave our own meals, we should be ready to call bollocks on such labels

saw leftover crack tonight. Good show but was it just karaoke for albums 10 years ago? Maybe. Loved every minute, but maybe!

i take some small issue with your complaint- simply on the grounds that times and therefore, styles change. so the fact that their debut meets the criteria but sandinista doesn't is the only grounds for not calling them a punk band? if anything, they evolved their style past the three minute blasts, but stuff like 'janie jones,' 'london's burning,' and 'what's my name' certianly qualify, in my book... those songs sound pretty sincere to me.

most punk bands didn't last long enough to change or evolve. the damned went for pink floyd excess on the second record, scaled it back down again, and then became one of the big players in the UK goth scene after that... does that not make their first record a landmark of the style? by your definition of the early manics as a punk rock band (which i more or less agree with), wouldn't that disqualify them as well based on the more brit-pop/soft records that came out after richey disappeared? what a band becomes towards the twilight years of their career should not count against the sincerity or classification of their earlier, more formative work.

[Space Suicide]

Bring on The Adicts!

Bring on The Misfits!

Bring on The Dead Kennedys!

Bring on The Ramones!

Bring on The Sex Pistols!

Bring on The Damned!

Yes.

[Sutekh]

i take some small issue with your complaint- simply on the grounds that times and therefore, styles change. so the fact that their debut meets the criteria but sandinista doesn't is the only grounds for not calling them a punk band? if anything, they evolved their style past the three minute blasts, but stuff like 'janie jones,' 'london's burning,' and 'what's my name' certianly qualify, in my book... those songs sound pretty sincere to me.

most punk bands didn't last long enough to change or evolve. the damned went for pink floyd excess on the second record, scaled it back down again, and then became one of the big players in the UK goth scene after that... does that not make their first record a landmark of the style? by your definition of the early manics as a punk rock band (which i more or less agree with), wouldn't that disqualify them as well based on the more brit-pop/soft records that came out after richey disappeared? what a band becomes towards the twilight years of their career should not count against the sincerity or classification of their earlier, more formative work.

spot-on obersvations, except I'm not saying a later shift invalidates earlier efforts, it's more a case of the clash never convincing me to begin with, and their haste to abandon the sound that they used to get signed sort of confimed my suspicions - the difference between the clash and the damned & manics (for me) is that the early stuff by the latter rings true, whereas for me the clash's debut sounds like pub rockers jumping on the new bandwagon. They did have moments of greatness and sincerity but for me they are a more conventional rock band than legend would have it

edit - but this really is just how it seems to me & I'm aware of that. I don't think people who don't believe as we do in sutekhland are ignorant or whatever

[innerturmoil]

The Weirdos
The Screamers
-
Best book on L.A. punk, "We Got The Neutron Bomb: The Untold Story Of L.A. Punk" By Marc Spitz & Brendan Mullen

[halo eighteen]

Looks like I'll be seeing Bikini Kill next year! Pretty stoked about that.

[allegro]

I have the Clash’s “Spanish Bombs” stuck in my head, out of nowhere, and it won’t leave.

[allegate]

Interesting idea, love to see what comes up.

[october_midnight]

Next year's tour will be the last for NOFX.

[october_midnight]

[thefragile_jake]

Honestly, the new post-punk wave of bands over the last few years has been the most exciting thing in punk lately. Bands like Dry Cleaning, shame, Viagra Boys, black country new road, Yard Act, Fountaines DC .... all good stuff.

[bobbie solo]

That new Blink song was fucking embarrassing. Shame on them.

[bobbie solo]

Honestly, the new post-punk wave of bands over the last few years has been the most exciting thing in punk lately. Bands like Dry Cleaning, shame, Viagra Boys, black country new road, Yard Act, Fountaines DC .... all good stuff.

Would you include Mannequin Pussy in this?

[bobbie solo]

Fat Mikerevealed in September that 2023 would be NOFX's last year as a band, along with their 40th anniversary, and said they'd announce their final shows soon. They've now unveiled the first round of U.S. shows, happening from April through September in various cities. See those dates below.The tour is being billed as "40 Years, 40 Cities, 40 Songs Per Day," with "very special guests" joining them. They say that setlists won't be repeated throughout the run, and will include full album sets and rarities. "This is not a final tour like Mötley Crüe or Black Sabbath," Fat Mike says. "These are the very last shows NOFX will ever be playing. We are gonna play with all our hearts…With all our joy…And then we are done. We are done done."
The tour begins with a two-date camping festival in Austin that also features Pennywise, Circle Jerks, Face to Face, Riverboat Gamblers, Codefendants, Get Dead, Bad Cop Bad Cop, The Bombpops, PEARS, Piñata Protest, and more. They've also got a two-date campout in Columbus, a two-date run in Tacoma, and single dates in San Diego, San Francisco, and St. Petersburg (lineups TBA). Tickets go on sale Friday, January 13 at 10 AM PT.

[poinoup]

I'm dying. "Use the b6 for max anxiety."

[october_midnight]

New Blink 182 song/video dropped and it's... pretty fantastic?

[caca]

New Blink 182 song/video dropped and it's... pretty fantastic?

Yeah, I was actually kind of blown away. It's great!

[mfte]

I'm nearly finished reading Please Kill Me: The Oral Uncensored History of Punk. It's a great read and I highly recommend it. It's very interesting to trace the lineage, a lot of the stories are downright insanity, and it lead me to discover a lot of great artists, and albums from that era. Spoiler: No one liked Nancy Spungen.



I also recommend the Trash Theory Youtube channel. Video essays that do a pretty great job combing over musical history.

[allegro]

I'm nearly finished reading Please Kill Me: The Oral Uncensored History of Punk. It's a great read and I highly recommend it. It's very interesting to trace the lineage, a lot of the stories are downright insanity, and it lead me to discover a lot of great artists, and albums from that era.

Yes! This really is a GREAT book! I have it in hardcover from 1996, and I could not put it down, it's SO fucking funny!!! I've now read it TWICE. LOL.