Universal Studios vault fire destroys UMG master tapes (Trent has his own)

[paul_guyet]

With Teeth was done at Sound Coty which was analogue tape right? A “master” is only a master if it is the one original copy. Good point about the fire being ten years ago and definitive editions of some albums coming out since then. But maybe this explains the ones that didn’t come out? Guess we will see.

Also, Reznor announced all six definitive editions in 2016, right? I don't think he'd have done if the masters had been destroyed 8 years prior.

[ryanmcfly]

With Teeth was done at Sound Coty which was analogue tape right? A “master” is only a master if it is the one original copy. Good point about the fire being ten years ago and definitive editions of some albums coming out since then. But maybe this explains the ones that didn’t come out? Guess we will see.

Rob Sheridan said he's helping with the with teeth DE like a month ago. So there's no reason in worrying that the masters for with teeth/YZ/The Slip.

[ninhead]

Also, Reznor announced all six definitive editions in 2016, right? I don't think he'd have done if the masters had been destroyed 8 years prior.

Didn't UMG hide what was exactly lost in the fire until very recently, though? Maybe he didn't know then.

[botley]

Guys, the "master" delivered to the Universal tape archive would be a production master. The mix reels, work tapes, and other recording elements are probably safely backed up in Reznor's care, where they can be re-mastered for future editions. Yeah, it's a bummer that the same reel used to make 4 million+ copies of The Downward Spiral is probably gone, but it's far FAR worse that all those other artists (hell, entire labels) have bodies of work that are not recoverable. NIN's work will be fine.

[zecho]

With Teeth was done at Sound Coty which was analogue tape right? A “master” is only a master if it is the one original copy. Good point about the fire being ten years ago and definitive editions of some albums coming out since then. But maybe this explains the ones that didn’t come out? Guess we will see.

I believe only the Dave Grohl tracks were recorded there. They go over it in the Sound City movie I think, but I'm not sure.

[paul_guyet]

Didn't UMG hide what was exactly lost in the fire until very recently, though? Maybe he didn't know then.

Maybe? I just don't think Reznor would have announced he was releasing definitive editions of his work and THEN started to work on them.

Also, I'm with @botley , I can't imagine someone as meticulous in the studio as Reznor wouldn't hold onto everything he's ever done just in case.

[chuckrh]

Guys, the "master" delivered to the Universal tape archive would be a production master. The mix reels, work tapes, and other recording elements are probably safely backed up in Reznor's care, where they can be re-mastered for future editions. Yeah, it's a bummer that the same reel used to make 4 million+ copies of The Downward Spiral is probably gone, but it's far FAR worse that all those other artists (hell, entire labels) have bodies of work that are not recoverable. NIN's work will be fine.

the loss of the Chess stuff really hurts. they released a lot of amazing music by seminal artists. chuck berry, howlin wolf, muddy waters to name but a few. i'm going to take a wild guess that those artists didn't have their masters for the most part. if you've never listened to howlin wolf just do it. the wolf was 1 of a kind & we'll never see the like again. i asked her for water & she gave me gasoline.....

[botley]

the loss of the Chess stuff really hurts. they released a lot of amazing music by seminal artists. chuck berry, howlin wolf, muddy waters to name but a few. i'm going to take a wild guess that those artists didn't have their masters for the most part. if you've never listened to howlin wolf just do it. the wolf was 1 of a kind & we'll never see the like again. i asked her for water & she gave me gasoline.....

I was JUST at the Chess Records site at 2120 South Michigan Ave., where Willie Dixon's Blues Heaven foundation operates as a museum. Incredible place, it's painful to think about what amazing history echoed down those corridors and can't ever now be recaptured or touched.

[Baphomette]

Guys, the "master" delivered to the Universal tape archive would be a production master. The mix reels, work tapes, and other recording elements are probably safely backed up in Reznor's care, where they can be re-mastered for future editions. Yeah, it's a bummer that the same reel used to make 4 million+ copies of The Downward Spiral is probably gone, but it's far FAR worse that all those other artists (hell, entire labels) have bodies of work that are not recoverable. NIN's work will be fine.

Some friends of mine are one of the bands that lost their masters. They'd only done one album with UMG (Geffen at the time), so although it's still a loss, it's not as huge a blow as it is for others. They plan on using the loss as leverage to get their rights back for that album (they still have a digital master). I don't know if TR owns his mechanicals but if he doesn't and assuming he did what most of us think he did...

[elevenism]

Can someone explain to me how we are only now learning about the fire?

[BRoswell]

Can someone explain to me how we are only now learning about the fire?

I mean, I remember when it happened, but it was a pretty massive fire that, as far as I know, involved a lot of film archives as well as music archives. It may have taken all this time to take inventory of what was where and what was lost.

[botley]

Can someone explain to me how we are only now learning about the fire?

Universal Music lied. Read the whole original article that reported this, if you can stomach it.

[Erneuert]

Universal Music lied. Read the whole original article that reported this, if you can stomach it.

Hmmm... it can’t be that Trent is only finding out about this now, and we know how open and frank he is with his fans... yet he didn’t say anything about it in 2008.

Or could it be that he’s only finding out about this now like the rest of us? Seems like the sort of thing he’d make a very public comment about.

[botley]

Read the article. They lied to pretty much everyone, although a small group of people knew what was actually lost.

[BRoswell]

Hmmm... it can’t be that Trent is only finding out about this now, and we know how open and frank he is with his fans... yet he didn’t say anything about it in 2008.

That was shortly after he split from Interscope, so odds are they didn't exactly rush to tell him about it.

[eversonpoe]

I was JUST at the Chess Records site at 2120 South Michigan Ave., where Willie Dixon's Blues Heaven foundation operates as a museum. Incredible place, it's painful to think about what amazing history echoed down those corridors and can't ever now be recaptured or touched.

you were in chicago and we didn't hang out??? HOW DARE YOU!?

[SM Rollinger]

Maybe @teitan could shed some light on his archiving process?

[WorzelG]

I’m sure he tweeted about finishing the surround sound version of The Fragile in 2009 which was after the fire, and then he came across the other bits of music that became Deviations years later so he must have that stuff backed up at least

[Baphomette]

Maybe @teitan could shed some light on his archiving process?

He could. I'm sure he won't. None of our business really.

[sweeterthan]

He could. I'm sure he won't. None of our business really.

And why would he after his account was publicly outed? That ship has sailed.

[onthewall2983]

I mean, I remember when it happened, but it was a pretty massive fire that, as far as I know, involved a lot of film archives as well as music archives. It may have taken all this time to take inventory of what was where and what was lost.

Was this the same fire where the Back To The Future ​lot was burned down?

[deadwinterskies]

Was this the same fire where the Back To The Future ​lot was burned down?

Yes. Part of the clock tower.

[eversonpoe]

Yes. Part of the clock tower.

[TheBang]

Split from NIN Spotting because look at how much you guys have to say about some silly copies of Trent's digital files.

[chuckrh]

Split from NIN Spotting because look at how much you guys have to say about some silly copies of Trent's digital files.

thank you. what you said is why i put the post in nin spotting in the first place. nin was mentioned in what was obviously a much bigger story.

[onthewall2983]

Ironically the Hill Valley set for III was burnt down too, by believe it or not, lightning.

[Max]

Why does the title of the thread here assert that’s trent has his own? I haven’t seen that this was ever established, only speculated about. I don’t think it makes much sense that he would have some of those masters. As I understand it there is only ever one analogue master and that the digital is NOT the same. So anything that was analogue, and under a record label - why would he have those?

Until NIN issues any kind of statement I don’t think we can know either way, but I would assume that NIN got screwed here like everyone else did.

[ninjaw]

Why does the title of the thread here assert that’s trent has his own? I haven’t seen that this was ever established, only speculated about. I don’t think it makes much sense that he would have some of those masters. As I understand it there is only ever one analogue master and that the digital is NOT the same. So anything that was analogue, and under a record label - why would he have those?
Until NIN issues any kind of statement I don’t think we can know either way, but I would assume that NIN got screwed here like everyone else did.

What the hell are you talking about this is trent, he got far more than a simple masters, he already proved that with re-relases. Everyone know how TR is working and how he worked with universal.

[Max]

What the hell are you talking about this is trent, he got far more than a simple masters, he already proved that with re-relases. Everyone know how TR is working and how he worked with universal.

The Washington Post specifically sited Nine Inch Nails as one of the groups that lost masters. That is what the hell I am talking about. Do you know what a master is? There is only one. A “digital master”, if created from the analogue master, is not actually the analogue original.

With Teeth was made at Sound City, for example. They used analogue. There was a whole documentary about the studio and their process.

So what the hell are YOU talking about. I’m not interested in someone’s speculation about what they think Trent did or didn’t do. No artist would be expected to have reels of tape in a fireproof vault in their own home. Come on.

We are all here because we love NIN and wondering whether particular originals made it through a fire that wiped out an industry is a legit question.

[hellospaceboy]

No artist would be expected to have reels of tape in a fireproof vault in their own home. Come on.

Also, few artists actually own their music (including Trent for the first huge chunk of his catalog), so I suspect you can't just decide to take home the master tapes...