Random NIN Thoughts

[Jon]

You know, given how meticulous TR has always been with packaging, why do we think he gave Deviations such shitty packaging treatment?

To keep the price down. You can argue whether or not it was a fair price point to begin with but it was $80 for 4 vinyl and a NIN-themed Cracker Jack box.

[tony.parente]

To keep the price down. You can argue whether or not it was a fair price point to begin with but it was $80 for 4 vinyl and a NIN-themed Cracker Jack box.

Its even harder to swallow when the bird box 4 vinyl set has the packaging that it has for $80.

[imail724]

Random nin thought: man that guitar solo in ruiner is groovy

[Pyract]

Am I remembering correctly that that was yet another moment he played and was like, "Fuck it, something like this, but I'll have someone better do it again later" and then never did? He wanted something Pink Floydish, but not so shitty, and then stuck with his own take?

From NINWiki:

The bridge of this song features a rare guitar solo by Reznor. In the April 1994 issue of Guitar World, he was asked about it in the following section of the interview:

GW: I wanted to ask you about the solo in "Ruiner." How did you get that really nasty, ultra-quantized sound?

REZNOR: Ah yes, the great, Pink Floyd-esque, Seventies-sounding section of the song. That's just a preset on the Zoom. I think I accidentally called up the wrong patch. I'm not a soloist. I was just laughing when I was playing with this ridiculous sound, recording into the computer saying like, "This is so cheesy," you know? I later realized that I basically tried to play a "Comfortably Numb"-type solo with this sound. I played the song for Chris, our drummer, and I was thinking, "He's going to start laughing. It's silly." But he goes, "Man, that guitar section was fucking great."

[zecho]

From NINWiki:

The bridge of this song features a rare guitar solo by Reznor. In the April 1994 issue of Guitar World, he was asked about it in the following section of the interview:

GW: I wanted to ask you about the solo in "Ruiner." How did you get that really nasty, ultra-quantized sound?

REZNOR: Ah yes, the great, Pink Floyd-esque, Seventies-sounding section of the song. That's just a preset on the Zoom. I think I accidentally called up the wrong patch. I'm not a soloist. I was just laughing when I was playing with this ridiculous sound, recording into the computer saying like, "This is so cheesy," you know? I later realized that I basically tried to play a "Comfortably Numb"-type solo with this sound. I played the song for Chris, our drummer, and I was thinking, "He's going to start laughing. It's silly." But he goes, "Man, that guitar section was fucking great."

My favorite part of that interview:

GW: Is that Adrian doing the thrash power chording on that song?
REZNOR: No, that's me. Ol' Lightning Fingers.

[Sarah_Munn]

I was today old when I discovered NIN did a live cover of Sex Dwarf. Wish there was a studio version but given I thought there wasn't one at all I'm pretty happy.

[TheBang]

I was today old when I discovered NIN did a live cover of Sex Dwarf. Wish there was a studio version but given I thought there wasn't one at all I'm pretty happy.

Well, then, did you see the excerpts from the studio version they were working on c.1994? See 20:23 here:

[Sarah_Munn]

@TheBang I did, just wish it had been formally released. It's such a fun and filthy song a proper NIN cover would have been amazing.

[tony.parente]

With Teeth is so good man. I hope we get one more straightforward rock record from nin before they call it a day.

[fillow]

Trent is a really popular name in the last few years for anyone who follows Premier League or European football in general.
Go Reds!

[HWB]

With Teeth is so good man. I hope we get one more straightforward rock record from nin before they call it a day.

I kinda find it funny we call With_Teeth a "straight-forward" rock album, when you consider how diverse the album actually is. I do kinda get the sentiment, it is the album which is full of punches and moves at a very fast pace, like a bullet, with really aggressive song-writting, but still, when you look at each song. It covered a lot of new grounds for NIN in general where Trent made some of the most minimal songs up to that point to the point some songs were close to being Punk or Garage Rock (Collector, Getting Smaller) amongst other things

[botley]

Gosh, I love Fixed. That's it. That's the random NIN thought.

[botley]

I file With Teeth away as the most radio-friendly pop album Trent has ever produced

Rumours is also the most radio-friendly Fleetwood Mac album (and happens to be their best, also).

I always thought it was weird that he described With Teeth as "unfixed" and in opposition to all the radio records of the era since I really feel like nothing else he did before or after has the same...sheen of popular presentability?

Melodic hooks and heavy beats don't cover over the noise and grit on that record.

Anyways, I've just never sat and thought about it from the perspective of new ground covered for Nine Inch Nails and think it would be an interesting argument to hear.

Far as I know, it's the first and only NIN studio record to use real live drums on a majority of tracks that aren't just sample-replaced or cut into chunks. Those are straight up uninterrupted drum performances (and vocal and guitar and synth and bass and piano and percussion performances). Lots of human imperfections in each layer.

[eversonpoe]

Rumours is also the most radio-friendly Fleetwood Mac album (and happens to be their best, also).


Melodic hooks and heavy beats don't cover over the noise and grit on that record.


Far as I know, it's the first and only NIN studio record to use real live drums on a majority of tracks that aren't just sample-replaced or cut into chunks. Those are straight up uninterrupted drum performances (and vocal and guitar and synth and bass and piano and percussion performances). Lots of human imperfections in each layer.

yes yes yes

also, "the line begins to blur" is incredibly heavy and noisy during the verses, and yet the chorus is so beautiful and contemplative. that's the song that always comes to mind for me (after "all the love in the world") when i think of how different With Teeth sounds from the rest of the NIN catalog.

[Magnetic]

yes yes yes

also, "the line begins to blur" is incredibly heavy and noisy during the verses, and yet the chorus is so beautiful and contemplative. that's the song that always comes to mind for me (after "all the love in the world") when i think of how different With Teeth sounds from the rest of the NIN catalog.

It's probably my favorite song off that album, and to me that song fits right in with the rest of the NIN catalogue. That juxtaposition of heavy noise/ soft and melodic is common throughout. The best example of this is I do not want this. There are others, but work is beating down my door at the moment.

[tony.parente]

Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.

[Tom]

Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.

It's good, sure, but have you tried side A of Broken?

[tony.parente]

It's good, sure, but have you tried side A of Broken?

Side A is good but it's not with teeth side 4.

[Erneuert]

Side A is good but it's not with teeth side 4.

With Teeth side 4 is good but it’s not Broken track 79.576 ms.

[Magnetic]

Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.

It's definitely up there in my top 5.

[HWB]

Please, go on! Specifically about the new ground covered. I've never considered it in that way.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but in my brain I file With Teeth away as the most radio-friendly pop album Trent has ever produced and have just sort of let it sit there. I certainly haven't looked to it for... innovation? Or maybe I'm just very tired right now and not thinking with my whole brain? I always thought it was weird that he described With Teeth as "unfixed" and in opposition to all the radio records of the era since I really feel like nothing else he did before or after has the same...sheen of popular presentability?

Don't get me wrong, I love the album—it's not my favorite thing Nine Inch Nails has done, but it's far from my least favorite. It's got a Morrison Hotel effect on me: only when I look at the songs one at a time do I realize how much I like the world as a whole. Something like Spiral I can look at from a distance and say, "Yeah, absolutely, impressive record." Okay, I clearly am very tired right now. Though that is how I feel, notwithstanding the fact that I'm not at all sure the last paragraph makes sense outside of my head.

The record is certainly diverse, though, in one particular way for me: "The Hand That Feeds" and "Not So Pretty Now" are maybe my least favorite things Nine Inch Nails has ever done, while "All the Love in the World" is in the God-Tier for me, and "Right Where It Belongs" and "Beside You in Time" are close behind. That being said, there's not a song that feels out of place on the LP—even the B-sides. Incredibly consistent production?

Anyways, I've just never sat and thought about it from the perspective of new ground covered for Nine Inch Nails and think it would be an interesting argument to hear.

First off, the subject matter is something that future NIN would heavily focus on, this sort of theme about being stuck in a dream and focus on existentialism is what covers most of With_Teeth and it is pretty much the main focus of The Trilogy, questioning whenever you are in a dream, reality, so on and so forth, a lot of With_Teeth's concepts which were touched upon got expanded in the future mostly in The Trilogy but can also be seen in The Slip, specifically Head Down.

Beside You In Time (the track) also expanded a deeper focus on Ambient, while this was already done in The Fragile this song feels more expansive, something that hints at Ghosts or future Trent's soundtrack work.

The aggressive song-writing is also to keep in mind, songs like The Collector/Getting Smaller (which I mentioned earlier), with their more minimal and Punkier vibe hinted at this side of NIN which gets shown to us again and again, which once again got expanded upon in future (Beginning Of The End, 1,000,000, Branches/Bones, Shit Mirror and perhaps even more). Trent wasn't afraid at this point to have minimal songs, he admitted that a lot of his layering was done out of fear of being too raw and naked with his voice, specifically hinting at "Hurt", compare that to something like Right Where It Belongs, which indeed begins with a filter on Trent's voice but then it opens up, Trent's emotional voice is in the front while gentle drone and piano plays in the background, putting all focus on Trent and his lyrics while in the past Trent would cover up his voice in "Hurt" with distortions and all sorts of layers, now think of songs like "Lights In The Sky", "This Isn't The Place", "Find My Way"..more and more, and you will see Trent embracing the vulnerability of his performance and it all goes back to With_Teeth.

Then you also have the opening "All The Love In The World" which toys with Glitch Pop, little bit hinting at what would eventually become of "How To Destroy Angels"

Also, while With_Teeth is an accessible album, it is still very much so an Industrial Rock album at its core.

And a heavy one. I believe that With_Teeth's accessible singles just give people the wrong idea about majority of the contents of the record;

"You Know What You Are" is in your face Industrial Metal, I don't think anyone can deny this, it's raw and incredibly explosive and noisy.

"The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here

"Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

Title track "(With Teeth)" is dominated by this Noise Rock guitar with an ugly drone covering the background, the structure of the song is also a little odd, this isn't the first time a NIN song suddenly gets quiet and loud (Mr.Self Destruct), but this is arguably one of the most aggressive dynamics changes ever, it's insane, when the song comes back from its little ballad it's basically a jump-scare, the song forces the listener to turn up the song just to blast their ears off, it's awesome and works.
"Getting Smaller" is a fast Garage Punk song with incredible guitar work and drums of course.

"Sunspots" has a heavy focus on filthy bass which hits hard with a dark guitar, it gets brighter/upbeat little bit more with the introduction of the microwave middle-way through, either way, this song still feels rather heavy to me.

"The Line Begins To Blur" is down-right nasty, an intense wall of noise covering the verses while the chorus is almost heavenly and melodic, there is a big contrast between verses and choruses, this trick of such intense contrast between verses and choruses really got introduced here, where the chorus is some sort of "peaceful" release from the chaos and anxiety before it appears again and re-appears in "Head Down" and "The Lovers"

What"Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

[HWB]

It's probably my favorite song off that album, and to me that song fits right in with the rest of the NIN catalogue. That juxtaposition of heavy noise/ soft and melodic is common throughout. The best example of this is I do not want this. There are others, but work is beating down my door at the moment.

The difference is that I Do Not Want This constantly kinda builds towards the aggressive chorus, whereas "The Line Begins To Blur" kinda inverts this, where the song rather than becoming heavier and louder gives some breathing space after chaos in the chorus.

[botley]

"The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here

Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.

[HWB]

Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.

I actually really wanted to mention the piano, I think its most entiresting usage is in "You Know What You Are" you have this really agresive, really loud Industrial Metal song and suddenly there is this really sad piano in the angriest part of the song, it adds this level of melancholony and sadness to this otherwise pure assault of a song, it gives it an entirely new feel just from that little piano that appears on there.

The usage of piano throughout With_Teeth is brilliant, I am also in love with that crazy frantic piano which closes off "The Collector".

I really think that sometimes With_Teeth is my favorite album from NIN for so many reasons, my favorite NIN album changes all the time but With_Teeth a lot of the times is on the top for me, mostly due to how naked and carthatic yet angry the entire album is, it feels really powerful yet varnurable at the same time. Brutal yet tender as well.

[fillow]

There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses

[botley]

There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses

Oh God, are we going to do all this again? Count it out for yourself, in the verses you'll get two bars of six and then an extra quarter note before the pattern starts again! They even emphasize the extra thirteenth beat with a heavy floor tom-tom accent on the drums.

Then, just before the chorus, they drop the last extra beat and go into straight 4/4 BUT there is a half-measure (or a bar of 6/4, if you like) when the singing stops.

[elevenism]

all jokes aside, my favorite "side" of any NIN release, ever, and still, is Broken. I could throw Fixed in there, too: they're sort of companion pieces. (side note: i had a Fixed shirt before Fixed was released, at least in Dallas. it had the Broken "n" in blue, and said Fixed on the back of the shirt,i think. and i just figured it was some sort of clever companion to the broken promo materials.

i got into NIN, because of broken, when it came out, when i was fucking TWELVE.
Then i backtracked to PHM, and then found Fixed.

NIN, for me, was still UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING at this point.

i waited with baited breath for the pre TDS maxi singles, or whatever you call them, like the MOTP one.
TDS finally came out, and, it was similarly disturbing. Is it better (than broken/fixed/phm) musically? is it more complex? is it a more, idk, "focused" artistic statement? i think it is. and, i've finally begrudgingly come to the conclusion that TDS IS the best NIN record, objectively.

BUT, Broken/Fixed will likely ALWAYS be my favorite NIN thing.
And, downward spiral continued the vibe.

yet, i honestly wish to GOD i could build, (well, FINISH building,) a time machine, and temporarily erase most NIN music and press from the minds of some of you youngsters,and take you to a couple shows right after TDS was released: before a fuckton of interviews, before the hype, and before Closer was a radio hit.

You sort of just had to be there, and i'd imagine that those of you who WERE there know what i mean.

[chuckrh]

If Trent wins an Emmy he will be just a Tony away from the rare EGOT (Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony). To be honest, I don't think I want Trent going the Broadway route. Could be interesting but....

[imail724]

I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

[withateetha]

Can’t stop thinking about a Reznor produced Lady Gaga track. I want them to collab sooooo fucking bad ��