Vinyl Rerelease 2019 (With Teeth)

[Leviathant]

Are those for sure "G"s? That first word makes more sense as "videotape".

In both of the first Gs, the reason I went with G and not O is because of a distinct horizontal line in addition to a gap in what would be the circle, had it been an O. The G isn't perfectly round, either, giving it a slightly more gnarly edge at the top right.

I started out letter by letter, and when I got to the point illustrated above, I had also thought, "What if it's videotape?" But that second "G" is definitely not an E, and the letter "T" has been easy to find in both of these, with its distinct measurements, so I fell back to, "This is just Rob mashing keys on the keyboard."

[laststepdown]

Are those for sure "G"s? That first word makes more sense as "videotape".

Im seeing that E as an L etc.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I mean, my real want is a Deviations for With Teeth. Give me that Bleedthrough nonsense, no matter what it's like.

I’ve been saying the same thing about Tapeworm for years, to the relative chagrin of all. It’s hilarious to me how so many people in this community would rather have a DVD of tour footage that has been available on YouTube for years, or rough sketches of an album that was basically Trent figuring out how to be NIN again, and now regards as one of his least-effective releases, as opposed to an album’s worth of material that features MJK, Phil Anselmo, Toni Halliday and Danny Lohner all performing with Trent under the same roof..

[paul_guyet]

Maybe we got some of it in the recent trilogy? " behind the background world always bleeding through "

Oh believe me, I lost my shit when I first heard that. Throw in that (maybe, maybe not) "Ahead of Ourselves" lyric from the WT lyrics poster and my brain keeps freaking out.

[Leviathant]

I’ve been saying the same thing about Tapeworm for years, to the relative chagrin of all. It’s hilarious to me how so many people in this community would rather have a DVD of tour footage that has been available on YouTube for years, or rough sketches of an album that was basically Trent figuring out how to be NIN again, and now regards as one of his least-effective releases, as opposed to an album’s worth of material that features MJK, Phil Anselmo, Toni Halliday and Danny Lohner all performing with Trent under the same roof..

I think that the thing about Tapeworm is that no finished recordings ever came about during the course of the project. Maybe there's a Pro Tools session of what became Puscifer's "Potions" but with different instrumentation and some scratch vocalization, but no finished lyrics, sitting on a hard drive somewhere. Maybe some of the tracks that were going to be Tapeworm were released as Deviations, or were used in Niggy Tardust. Both Trent and Maynard have said that what came out of these sessions just weren't any good, and I think it's safe to take them at their word. Maynard put "Eat the Elephant" out there, and if Tapeworm's less releasable than that, let Tapeworm lie, IMHO.

That unreleased 12 Rounds record though? Where they moved away from being so sample heavy, and leaned into original composition? Gimme.

[spahn]

For those who do not have WT DE, I have placed scans of the items up on nincatalog.com

http://nincatalog.com/with-teeth/wit...-vinyl12-1588/

[hollowsminion]

Slap my hand/head butt/face palm/etc. if you want, but I'm very out of the "loop" and for the life of me I don't even remember how I acquired the Apple Lossless Definitive Editions of [everything] without purchasing the vinyl so if anyone can DM an FYI on something for WITH TEETH I'd be appreciative. Just purchased "Waves" and converting to MP4 for my weekend listen.

[StockAvuryah]

For those who do not have WT DE, I have placed scans of the items up on nincatalog.com

http://nincatalog.com/with-teeth/wit...-vinyl12-1588/

I wonder if they used the nin.wiki for the tour date posters

[nmitchell86]

I wonder if they used the nin.wiki for the tour date posters

I'm sure nin have all those in very Hi Rez files somewhere archived. I don't think they would use the Wiki, maybe to double check their own info that they got them all listed for the layout as a reference but nothing more.

[Erneuert]

Has anyone tweeted Rob Sheridan about this? Would be keen to know how much he knew about The Warning when he printed and entirely distorted those lyrics for the poster back in 2005. And his thoughts on how it evolved into the YZ concept two years later.

[laststepdown]

Has anyone tweeted Rob Sheridan about this? Would be keen to know how much he knew about The Warning when he printed and entirely distorted those lyrics for the poster back in 2005. And his thoughts on how it evolved into the YZ concept two years later.

Maybe that's how and why some of the tour art posters were military themed (not like the rest) later in the tour, after the 5 month winter break. Until 2006 they're mostly random lines.


Then all of a sudden, soldiers
http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1053/

guns

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1056/

and bombs

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1055/
http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1054/

explosions eveywhere, etc.

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1052/

[dlb]

Oh dear lord, hope mine arrives safe and sound... just checked and I indeed received a shipping confirmation on Nov 25 which just went to my SPAM. Fingers crossed, but sucks to hear people have problems again.

I've become really anxious though when ordering something more precious like books and limited itmes from the US and UK these days. Loooong wait for damaged goods.... nothing that makes you happy when you look at the price tag.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I think that the thing about Tapeworm is that no finished recordings ever came about during the course of the project. Maybe there's a Pro Tools session of what became Puscifer's "Potions" but with different instrumentation and some scratch vocalization, but no finished lyrics, sitting on a hard drive somewhere. Maybe some of the tracks that were going to be Tapeworm were released as Deviations, or were used in Niggy Tardust. Both Trent and Maynard have said that what came out of these sessions just weren't any good, and I think it's safe to take them at their word. Maynard put "Eat the Elephant" out there, and if Tapeworm's less releasable than that, let Tapeworm lie, IMHO.

That unreleased 12 Rounds record though? Where they moved away from being so sample heavy, and leaned into original composition? Gimme.

Has there ever been any actual confirmation from Trent (or Atticus) that an entire albums' worth of material that was in fact Bleedthrough exists though? I was under the impression that all of that "Bleedthrough..12 straight punches to the face" hype from 2003-2004 simply morphed into "With Teeth..12 or 13 songs that are all unrelated but friends with each other", or whatever he said at the time..

Obviously, The Warning showed up a couple years later on an album where it made more sense, and Non-Entity and NSPN materialized years later on the NINJA comp. But aside from a few random song lyrics on a poster, does anything else exist from those sessions? I tend to lean towards the notion that we've been listening to Bleedthrough for the last 15 years, as With Teeth..

Whereas, with Tapeworm, Danny said in September 2003 that they had an entire album's worth of material ready to mix. I've never bought Trent's whole "it just wasn't good enough" excuse when Maynard is releasing Potions, the Undertaker and Passive on high-profile releases for his own projects. It seems more likely that the legal wrangling between record labels or too many egos in the same room sunk Tapeworm, as opposed to an entire album ready for mixing that one day just isn't good enough..

[cdm]

I've never bought Trent's whole "it just wasn't good enough" excuse when Maynard is releasing Potions, the Undertaker and Passive on high-profile releases for his own projects. It seems more likely that the legal wrangling between record labels or too many egos in the same room sunk Tapeworm, as opposed to an entire album ready for mixing that one day just isn't good enough..

"It just wasn't good enough" is subjective.

I'll take it one step further...had Passive or Potions been released as Tapeworm (in some form) I probably would have been disappointed.

[Leviathant]

No, I don't think there's ever been confirmation of a near-complete "Bleedthrough" - it was an early concept announced ahead of schedule (not unlike The Downward Spiral, articulated pretty clearly during the release of Broken), but as best as I can tell, during the creation part of that concept, the sci-fi narrative fell mostly to the side.

As far as Tapeworm goes, I hadn't heard anyone reference The Undertaker w/r/t Tapeworm. Potions has the Trent Reznor writing credit, and Maynard announced Vacant/Passive as being a Tapeworm song during its live performances. Aside from that, Saul Williams' Convict Colony is confirmed to have been made with elements of a Tapeworm track, and given the crossover of Deviations with Niggy Tardust, I feel pretty strongly that some of what's in Deviations come from the collection of material that got labeled Tapeworm.

I also don't really see much in the way of ego in any of the statements that Trent and Maynard have put out about the music. They've both been super casual about it in interviews, and it seems a weird thing to lie about after all this time. It would be easy money for both of them.

[BRoswell]

I imagine Potions and Passive were heavily reworked from the originals, so I don't think it's fair to judge what Tapeworm might have been like based on those songs.

[sick among the pure]

I feel pretty strongly that some of what's in Deviations come from the collection of material that got labeled Tapeworm.

Agreed, though I can never be sure how much, I'm pretty sure at least SOMETHING transferred over.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

"It just wasn't good enough" is subjective.

Well, of course it is. And it's Trent's work, so it's Trent's call to make. That doesn't mean I have to believe it's the real reason we've never heard the Tapeworm stuff. I can't imagine it being any worse or less worth-hearing than an album like the Slip that took less than a month to complete, or Eat the Elephant, which isn't as bad as it gets credit for, but still routinely gets dunked for being a disaster..

As far as Tapeworm goes, I hadn't heard anyone reference The Undertaker w/r/t Tapeworm. Potions has the Trent Reznor writing credit, and Maynard announced Vacant/Passive as being a Tapeworm song during its live performances. Aside from that, Saul Williams' Convict Colony is confirmed to have been made with elements of a Tapeworm track, and given the crossover of Deviations with Niggy Tardust, I feel pretty strongly that some of what's in Deviations come from the collection of material that got labeled Tapeworm.

Bleedthrough and whatever it entailed was definitely going to be the initial album that With Teeth turned out to be; I remember reading in Alt Press back in their 2003 "Most anticipated albums of 2004" section that it was coming in the new year (which, of course, it didn't). I just think if there was an actual album's worth of demos or unheard material from that era, it would have been released/leaked/etc. by now..

As far as Deviations and Tapeworm, that would kind of be like cheating, wouldn't it? Sure, Saul's Skin of a Drum turned out to be an amazing leftover instrumental track from the Fragile, but wasn't the whole point of Deviations supposed to be a clearing house of all the leftover Fragile instrumentals? That would pre-date his work with the Tapeworm project, unless he had intended to use the leftover Fragile stuff for whatever Tapeworm was shaping up to be..

Which kind of brings me back to my original point: just because Trent doesn't think it's good enough doesn't mean his fans wouldn't love to have it. Imagine if John Lennon had talked about some supergroup he'd formed with Brian Wilson and David Bowie, that was too weird for public consumption. Beatles/Beach Boys/Bowie fans wouldn't just accept that and give up. I just don't understand why something like Tapeworm with the kind of names it has attached to it isn't more sought after by the Nails/Tool community, that's all..

Back on topic: holy shit, this WT DE definitely sounds fuller and more in your face than the original vinyl pressing on my set-up. It was immediately noticeable, even after years of listening to this on vinyl and CD..

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

There are NIN fans who think 'Everything' is a masterpiece and that dumped off 4 song 10 minute Jonah Hill "score" is one of his best scores, so a lot of NIN fans are easily satisfied, so I find it hard to believe people would shit on Tapeworm. I also find it hard to believe most of the songs were sketches and unfinished demos. Phil Anselmo said he recorded vocals for 2 songs that were entirely finished with Lohner handling everything. Somewhere on a hard drive there are probably hours and hours of Tapeworm music (much like those 12 hours of Radiohead OK Computer sessions that came out recently).....Its out there. Unfortunately the only time we will ever hear it will be after Trent joins Bowie and Cornell in never never land and his estate starts pawning off every fucking thing imaginable to make money off his name (ie: Prince)

[allegate]

are you this bitter just in general, or is it special just for us?

[SM Rollinger]

There are NIN fans who think 'Everything' is a masterpiece and that dumped off 4 song 10 minute Jonah Hill "score" is one of his best scores, so a lot of NIN fans are easily satisfied, so I find it hard to believe people would shit on Tapeworm. I also find it hard to believe most of the songs were sketches and unfinished demos. Phil Anselmo said he recorded vocals for 2 songs that were entirely finished with Lohner handling everything. Somewhere on a hard drive there are probably hours and hours of Tapeworm music (much like those 12 hours of Radiohead OK Computer sessions that came out recently).....Its out there. Unfortunately the only time we will ever hear it will be after Trent joins Bowie and Cornell in never never land and his estate starts pawning off every fucking thing imaginable to make money off his name (ie: Prince)

[cdm]

Tapeworm does it every time.

[laststepdown]

"Hours and Hours of Tapeworm music" lol

That is a far stretch.

[snichols]

Received With Teeth and Bird Box today. The BB packaging is awesome and WT sounds fucking great! The poster/insert is a great addition, especially since it includes lyrics and credits. I'm excited to have WT on vinyl and the essay is a good read. I really can't wait to read the essays for Year Zero and The Slip, those being the two releases I am most interested in learning some inside info about. Also, if I had to complain about one thing involving WT...it would have to be that they cut the right side of Trent' face off in the vinyl packaging. Not a big deal at all, but I am used to the full photo on the CD version.

[Erneuert]

Maybe that's how and why some of the tour art posters were military themed (not like the rest) later in the tour, after the 5 month winter break. Until 2006 they're mostly random lines.


Then all of a sudden, soldiers
http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1053/

guns

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1056/

and bombs

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1055/
http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1054/

explosions eveywhere, etc.

http://nincatalog.com/printed-artwor...s-poster-1052/

Yeah, we kind of didn’t question that when that happened, did we? Just linked it to the anti-Bush comments probably.

[Leviathant]

Yeah, we kind of didn’t question that when that happened, did we? Just linked it to the anti-Bush comments probably.

Also keep in mind, the war-themed posters were by The Designers Republic, the previous lithos were Rob's designs.

[K-Rice]

I somehow missed the news till now, but I’ve ordered the With Teeth vinyl. Now just gotta wait for Year Zero and The Slip vinyls in a couple years. Maybe by 2030 we can get a Still vinyl.

[sonic_discord]

Also keep in mind, the war-themed posters were by The Designers Republic, the previous lithos were Rob's designs.

Huh! I hadn't realized that they did those! I had assumed (like many people probably did) that they were designed by Rob, too. Did they do anything else aside from those posters and the Sin single artwork?

[Erneuert]

Huh! I hadn't realized that they did those! I had assumed (like many people probably did) that they were designed by Rob, too. Did they do anything else aside from those posters and the Sin single artwork?

Didn’t Marilyn Manson hire them to rip off the Sin single for his logo? /sarcasm

[dlb]

My WT arrived and it's in perfect condition. Couldn't be happier and I can't wait to dig in once I get home from work today. The digital files are phenomenal and the packaging looks promising as hell. Good this record is finally "home".

As I absolutely adore the WT design I will try and give this an extra nice spot somewhere for it to shine.