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Thread: Worlds of DC Thread

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    Totally understandable opinion to have. If you don't like tons of slow motion, you won't like Snyder's movies at all, in fact you'd hate them. And that's ok. I actually really like 300 and Watchmen. I've never seen nor care to see sucker punch. As a comics fan, slow motion is kind of the film equivalent of a full page splash or something like that. It's not for everyone.

    It did make me remember this video though. Slow motion is discussed around 1:25, and 4:15.



    And please don't get me twisted. I love Batman movies but in no way am I comparing this to a master like Lynch. That is a blasphemy I would never commit. But, if it's ok to have a guy watering his lawn in slow motion, it must be ok to have the Flash save a hot dog during a car crash. lol
    I like comics and comic book movies. Slow motion by Snyder doesn’t work not because it can’t be used effectively. But because he over uses it and thinks it’s cool. He over uses it because he isn’t a good director. He doesn’t know how to have a plot with a developed beginning, middle and end. Movies shouldn’t have to be 4 hours to be good. He is style over substance. Of course that’s my opinion.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    They weren't lost. Steppenwolf got the news that "the god is dead" in the Luthor scene from BvS. So he goes there to investigate and is going to try and get the boxes back. Then he reports to Darkseid's henchmen "no lanterns, no kryptonian." In the process of him getting all the boxes he finds out that the "anti-life equation" has been carved into earth's surface. This is the information that is new to them. They've been looking for this equation but had no idea where it was. The mother boxes are a big deal to them, but the anti-life equation is checkmate, game over Darkseid wins, everyone go home. That is why Darkseid doesn't even appear to Steppenwolf when its just the mother boxes. When its anti-life, he shows up immediately.
    But we saw the anti-life equation carved into the surface when Darkseid showed up and axed the ground an hour in.. Then they reused the exact same moment with Steppenwolf in his place with Steppenwolf having some revelation. You're telling me Darkseid didn't see this equation that he just caused to appear in the ground, but Steppenwolf did? How did Darkseid miss this?

    Ona side note...
    I don't know which is a worse name, Aquaman or Martian Manhunter. A lot of the DC superheroes are kinda lame. And this is coming from someone who is not a comic book lover or Marvel vs DC fanboy. I am a complete outsider. Batman is the only cool superhero DC has. The rest are a bit lame. And I wasn't into the Phase 1 Marvel movies really. It took around Phase 2 into 3 to get me into it.
    Last edited by neorev; 03-20-2021 at 10:45 PM.

  3. #753
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    For some reason I did not mind the Flash slow motion sequence at all. It was completely over the top, and I loved it.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    For some reason I did not mind the Flash slow motion sequence at all. It was completely over the top, and I loved it.
    I get the Flash slow mo stuff. It's all the other constant, needless slow mo that doesn't really add anything. A lot of the times, I find it ruins the action rather than enhances it.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    But we saw the anti-life equation carved into the surface when Darkseid showed up and axed the ground an hour in.. Then they reused the exact same moment with Steppenwolf in his place with Steppenwolf having some revelation. You're telling me Darkseid didn't see this equation that he just caused to appear in the ground, but Steppenwolf did? How did Darkseid miss this?

    Ona side note...
    I don't know which is a worse name, Aquaman or Martian Manhunter. A lot of the DC superheroes are kinda lame. And this is coming from someone who is not a comic book lover or Marvel vs DC fanboy. I am a complete outsider. Batman is the only cool superhero DC has. The rest are a bit lame. And I wasn't into the Phase 1 Marvel movies really. It took around Phase 2 into 3 to get me into it.
    So, I think that first time Darkseid strikes the earth and gets a glimpse of the ALE, he then gets his ass kicked by the primitive earth armies and he basically has to get the fuck out now before they kill him. He leaves without the mother boxes, and earth buries the boxes which are shut down so they're not giving off any signal. Darkseid leaves out of retreat on a damaged ship and does his whole universe hopping thing. Without the signal from those boxes he has no way of knowing which tiny little primitive planet in all these galaxies that equation was carved into. He remembers being defeated there and he knows it exists, he just doesn't know how to get back to it. he doesn't have the mother boxes and he didn't have the tech when he retreated to find his way back. Many other planets have mother boxes too and he goes to any planet with boxes giving off signals, conquering all along the way. At first he just thinks Steppenwolf is headed to check out the mother boxes, then Steppenwolf realizes the ALE is there, he's found it. Since then Darksied has leveled up a ton, and he's heading back to earth. At least thats how I read it. Honestly, its shit like this that makes me not like these types of movies. I feel the exact same way about infinity stones. But it comes from children's comics after all so it is what it is.

    I agree I've always thought Aquaman was a lame name. Martian Manhunter not quite as bad but also not the best. You say DC heroes are lame, and many of them are i agree. But Marvel is lame through and through, in my opinion. Captain America is the lamest super hero name there has ever been, including Kite-man. I do dig Spiderman and The X-Men though.

    If I'm being honest I don't really give a fuck about any of these characters except for batman and superman. And those I like because I grew up with them. Batman was probably the first story I ever heard in this life, save for maybe Jesus. And man does batman hold up a lot better over time that the Jesus one. So I watch most of these movies from that history I had with the characters when I was a kid.

    This brings up an interesting opinion I have though. I prefer Batman to stay in Gotham because its just so awesome. I don't need other heroes teaming up. Just give me Gotham, the criminals and batman doing some dark gothic shit and I'm happy. Hopefully that's what Reeves' movie will be.

    And for what it's worth, Superman owns all the other heroes. Supes and Bats started all this stuff. They are the real og's.
    Last edited by burnmotherfucker!; 03-20-2021 at 11:30 PM.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post

    I agree I've always thought Aquaman was a lame name. Martian Manhunter not quite as bad but also not the best. You say DC heroes are lame, and many of them are i agree. But Marvel is lame through and through, in my opinion. Captain America is the lamest super hero name there has ever been, including Kite-man. I do dig Spiderman and The X-Men though.

    If I'm being honest I don't really give a fuck about any of these characters except for batman and superman. And those I like because I grew up with them. Batman was probably the first story I ever heard in this life, save for maybe Jesus. And man does batman hold up a lot better over time that the Jesus one. So I watch most of these movies from that history I had with the characters when I was a kid.
    .
    No no no on Captain America, I don't know anything about the comics but the Captain America films were some of the best in the MCU IMO, especially Winter Soldier. I was worried going into it it would be this ra ra America thing, but it wasn't at all. His character was made out to be this propoganda thing in the first one, routinely mocked by actual soldiers but he came through for the soldiers in the end. Then in the present time he's had an interesting arc too with his desire NOT to be some tool for the State.

    My experience with superheroes is actually similar to yours - I knew Batman (from the 60s thing originally, ha) through Tim Burton, Incredible Hulk through an 80s TV show, ditto Wonder Woman, Superman from the Christopher Reeve films, not really interested in the comics. I really came round on the MCU though - not yet started to watch the DCEU ones though. I'm concerned that I've heard Zack Snyder is really into Ayn Rand, does he bring obnoxious libertarian politics into his films because that may be a dealbreaker for me!

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    No no no on Captain America, I don't know anything about the comics but the Captain America films were some of the best in the MCU IMO, especially Winter Soldier. I was worried going into it it would be this ra ra America thing, but it wasn't at all. His character was made out to be this propoganda thing in the first one, routinely mocked by actual soldiers but he came through for the soldiers in the end. Then in the present time he's had an interesting arc too with his desire NOT to be some tool for the State.

    My experience with superheroes is actually similar to yours - I knew Batman (from the 60s thing originally, ha) through Tim Burton, Incredible Hulk through an 80s TV show, ditto Wonder Woman, Superman from the Christopher Reeve films, not really interested in the comics. I really came round on the MCU though - not yet started to watch the DCEU ones though. I'm concerned that I've heard Zack Snyder is really into Ayn Rand, does he bring obnoxious libertarian politics into his films because that may be a dealbreaker for me!
    Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't talking about the movies, just the character name itself. Aquaman is a dumb name but they did the character right in this movie, and the MCU did Captain America right in his movies as well. It's still very silly though, even in the modern context. I will say however that if you enjoy the MCU you may not like the DC stuff. It's just different. I've noticed most MCU fans really throw a lot of hate DC's way.

    You've seen more shows than I have. My in was 100% Batman the Animated Series. But I've seen Adam West all the way through ZSJL. Actually the Adam West version is always credited as the first, but it isn't. When I was about 6 I had the 1943 Batman serial on VHS. It's even more absurd. It's black and white and it's also extremely racist against the Japanese as it was made during WW2. It is like a relic of that time. As a kid I didn't even have a concept for racism so I didn't pick up on it but watching as an adult is enlightening. I think Superman once fought Nazi's as well and I'm pretty sure that patriotic mindset is where you get a character like Captain America.

    Batman TAS will always be #1 in my book. But I did eventually start reading some comics. That is where DC really shines. Dark Knight Returns, Arkham Asylum, Sandman, Watchmen, Killing Joke. Look up lists of the greatest graphic novels of all time and in most of them you have to go a long way down until you see a Marvel story. Some of the newer stuff is great as well. I recently read Harleen and it was so much better than anything they've done with the character in the movies. It was like if you took a character study like Joker (2019) and blended it with a thriller like Silence of the Lambs. If DC cared about that character they'd make that movie instead of that Suicide Squad bullshit.

    Now to your point on politics. I am troubled by the whole Ayn Rand thing too. I'm not really worried about her libertarian views but rather the philosophical implications they are based on. Namely that a person actually has free will, and the power to control their fate. No serious philosopher agrees with those premises. And that mindset leads to a serious lack of empathy in the real world. There are flashes of that that come through in the films if you're really looking for it but on the whole I don't think its all that heavy handed. What I did find a bit over the top in Justice League was the whole faith theme. They really were very obvious about that one and personally I do not care for that stuff. Superman is basically a Christ figure in the Snyder-verse. However, I do think the films leave enough room for interpretation, asking more questions than they are preaching or anything like that. I'm pretty open to engaging ideas and philosophies that I am opposed to though, it doesn't bother me to see someone else's take on things. It's actually useful in sharpening your own arguments I think. I will say one thing though, and this isn't a very big spoiler at all. There is a scene where a character helps out a poor person by giving them a lot of money. This is depicted as a positive moral action. In a hardcore libertarian/Rand-ian society, I can't see those things as being cohesive.
    Last edited by burnmotherfucker!; 03-21-2021 at 07:15 AM.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    So, I think that first time Darkseid strikes the earth and gets a glimpse of the ALE, he then gets his ass kicked by the primitive earth armies and he basically has to get the fuck out now before they kill him. He leaves without the mother boxes, and earth buries the boxes which are shut down so they're not giving off any signal. Darkseid leaves out of retreat on a damaged ship and does his whole universe hopping thing. Without the signal from those boxes he has no way of knowing which tiny little primitive planet in all these galaxies that equation was carved into. He remembers being defeated there and he knows it exists, he just doesn't know how to get back to it. he doesn't have the mother boxes and he didn't have the tech when he retreated to find his way back. Many other planets have mother boxes too and he goes to any planet with boxes giving off signals, conquering all along the way. At first he just thinks Steppenwolf is headed to check out the mother boxes, then Steppenwolf realizes the ALE is there, he's found it. Since then Darksied has leveled up a ton, and he's heading back to earth. At least thats how I read it. Honestly, its shit like this that makes me not like these types of movies. I feel the exact same way about infinity stones. But it comes from children's comics after all so it is what it is.
    I get what you are saying. See, I had no clue there are numerous boxes on other worlds. To me, I thought these 3 boxes were it, hence their importance. The problem with the anti-life equation scene is that Steppenwolf is in the same exact position as Darkseid, mimicking his motions, with them both hammering the ground and it appearing. Putting Steppenwolf in the same position as Darkseid, but with Steppenwolf seeing it and Darkseid does not was just confusing. Now if they just repeated that scene with Steppenwolf watching and re-experiencing that moment from above and seeing the symbol while Darkseid didn't see it below, then that would’ve made more sense. Just the way it was presented was a little sloppy and confusing with why one saw it and the other didn't. Though I found the anti-life equation stuff pretty vague all around and the mother box stuff not really developed. They're just McGuffins. Also not knowing what Steppenwolf did to betray Darkseid bugged me. Perhaps it could've been an interesting way to give Steppenwolf some time of character besides being a McGuffin finder who likes conference calls.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I get what you are saying. See, I had no clue there are numerous boxes on other worlds. To me, I thought these 3 boxes were it, hence their importance. The problem with the anti-life equation scene is that Steppenwolf is in the same exact position as Darkseid, mimicking his motions, with them both hammering the ground and it appearing. Putting Steppenwolf in the same position as Darkseid, but with Steppenwolf seeing it and Darkseid does not was just confusing. Now if they just repeated that scene with Steppenwolf watching and re-experiencing that moment from above and seeing the symbol while Darkseid didn't see it below, then that would’ve made more sense. Just the way it was presented was a little sloppy and confusing with why one saw it and the other didn't. Though I found the anti-life equation stuff pretty vague all around and the mother box stuff not really developed. They're just McGuffins. Also not knowing what Steppenwolf did to betray Darkseid bugged me. Perhaps it could've been an interesting way to give Steppenwolf some time of character besides being a McGuffin finder who likes conference calls.
    Well, keep in mind my knowledge of the Justice League is mainly coming from cartoons I saw decades ago. I'm certainly no expert on that particular story line. In the film though, the multiverse is brought up. This would mean that Darkseid would not only have to know how to find earth, but the right earth in order to find the ALE. And the film itself makes no mention of other mother boxes, I just assumed that based on the fact they show them being created by "science so advanced it seems like sorcery." I figure if those scientists can make those, whats stopping them from making more. Once Darkseid is defeated the first time, he also has no reason to come back anytime soon because he knows he can't conquer that world. He was basically a rookie back then. Wonder Woman is 5,000 years old and even she wasn't born the first time he was there. So a universe with billions of galaxies, trillions and trillions of planets, and an infinite multiverse. This coupled with the fact Darkseid is an immortal type being which means he's not exactly in a hurry and I think its reasonable he could have lost sight of exactly how to get to that ancient world.

    All that being said, I really don't think the film gives a very good reason or explanation for how earth got lost to him. The more I thought about what you said the more I think it is an oversight in the film and you are onto something. And yeah, the anti-life was vague all throughout except for one exposition scene. But anti-life is a big deal in the Darkseid mythos from what I understand. For sure it would have resurfaced in the later 2 sequels had they been made. I think they were just planting some seeds in this one. Kind of how they did the whole "bell has been rung" thing in BvS and didn't explain it until this film. That final Joker scene made me think Darkseid had used Lois' death to bring Superman to his side (much like the failed attempt to fool Cyborg) and had turned earth into Apokolips and aquired the anti-life equation.

  10. #760
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    I watched the Snyder Cut Friday night and rewatched other pieces of it yesterday to make sure I hadn't missed anything.

    This whole release is just weird in that we're actually getting a chance to witness what could have been when JL came out four years ago and that it had the chance to be re-edited, reorganized and, in some instances, re-shot into Snyder's original vision. I remember similar campaigns around Mass Effect 3 and The Last Jedi though, the circumstances around those films didn't have higher up interference the way JL did.

    The Snyder Cut is a superior film in almost every way than the 2017 film that WB put out. Is it a good film overall? I think so, because I think it doesn't have the same dueling narratives and weird narrative fuckery that BvS had pre and post "Martha" scene. I have never been a fan of Batman and guns and have no intention of rehashing that old debate so you quote away with me on those if you want; I won't be engaging. The guns and killing aspect of Batman comes down to whatever director who's involved wants to do with the character - I've just never been a fan of that Batman. Anyway, while BvS didn't really have a clear direction of what it wanted to be, the Snyder Cut does and that makes this a clearer movie from start to finish. Batman and Superman's motivations are clear throughout and Wonder Woman is absolute in who she is.

    Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg - Of the biggest things that Whedon did that might be the most frustrating was devaluing these characters in his version, especially Cyborg and Flash. I really liked Cyborg's story in this and really appreciated how he was presented and portrayed. If anything is within reach of being affected positively in the aftermath of this, it should be WB making things right with Ray Fisher so that they can keep his version of Cyborg active in future movies. Flash being almost fully realized from the get-go was also great, and the sequence in the final battle was probably my favorite moment in the entire film. I've never seen anything like that in a superhero film. Aquaman was fine and I'm glad we've gotten his film afterwards to get his big story.

    The movie is too fucking long. I'm sure someone is already figuring out how much time is saved by reducing the slow motion in half the movie, but that along with the Joker scene could all be edited down. The Knightmare scene was fine but not necessary unless it was utilized as an after credits scene. In that regard, I would've cut the Luthor/Deathstroke scene entirely. Minor points. But yeah, this will be hard to rewatch without having it on disc to get to some of the cooler moments. I hate Jared Leto's Joker and that can go away now forever, thanks.

    Holkneborg's score is better than Danny Eflman's score by leaps and bounds, even if it suffers from the sound BWOMP BWOMP that Hans Zimmer's superhero scores have suffered from. The Wonder Woman theme sounds WAY better than Elfman's half-realized version did. The meme going around is super accurate, however. The other moments, including the new Batman cue and the music from the big Flash moment were great and hearing the MOS version of Superman's them was nice. I hated that Elfman felt like he had to use his original Batman theme and John Williams' Superman theme not because I hate them or anything, but that because he did the same thing with those that he did with the Avengers theme in AOU - he half-baked them into motifs that had traces of the theme before devolving them into a flurry of strings and other cues. I fucking love his Batman theme (who doesn't?), but the fact that he couldn't give us the chance for an updated, sweeping version of it similar to what he did from Batman '89 to Batman Returns. His use of the John Williams Superman theme was also hot garbage for all the same reasons. So, for all of that, it was nice hearing something consistent with the other Snyder films.

    I liked it, maybe even kind of more than I would have if it had been the movie that had been released in 2017. My overall hope is that the path forward with these films is to take the best pieces of this and integrate it with the updated plans while not giving an inch to the bad faith actors, arguments and comments that got us to this point. I'm not going to muddy up this thread with names of these folks, but Zack made some news trying to disavow them recently and I think those are steps in the right direction.

  11. #761
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    I have a major issue with Aquaman in this movie. He does a 180 character change in a split second. He goes from the reluctant, "I don't wanna go along with this. Think of the repercussions" guy to "My man" shouting and whooping in an instant. Somewhere around the 3 hour mark, he completely changes personalities, and turns from Snyder's Aquaman to Whedon's Aquaman. It was very abrupt and stood out to me.

    Flash still annoys the hell out of me. I just don't like who they chose for him. I find his jokes just don't land and feel forced.

    I'm also not a fan of Henry Cavill as Superman. I didn't like him as Geralt either. I think maybe I just don't like him as an actor at all. I'm trying to think if I liked him in anything else.

    And, please, don't get me started on Gal Gadot. When it comes to acting, she is painful to watch.

    Shockingly, Ben Affleck won me over at Batman. I was one of the skeptics when they announced him at Batman. I was like, "Nah. No. Nope. Nonporous. Uh Uh." But I enjoyed his take on Batman later in age. It really is a shame we didn't get his Batman. They had to force Superman into his movie. I really wish we got more of him. Him and Irons are great together.

    I absolutely love J.K. Simmons, but, man, he just does not work as Commissioner Gordon for me. He feels like he's phoning it in here. Gary Oldman gave him some depth. We didn't get much time with Simmons' Gordon, but when do, it's mostly forgettable.

    Batman is the only decent superhero in DC's playbook. I just can't get into Superman. Perhaps with a different actor/writer/director, they can win me over. I am excited for Matt Reeves' Batman movie. I loved the Nolan ones.
    Last edited by neorev; 03-21-2021 at 12:31 PM.

  12. #762
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    So next week's How Did This Get Made? is doing the Snyder cut. Should be fun.

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    This is just so good and funny. He really gets the things that just do not work and don't make sense. Nailed a lot of the things that bugged me in the story.

    Last edited by neorev; 03-21-2021 at 08:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    I have never been a fan of Batman and guns and have no intention of rehashing that old debate so you quote away with me on those if you want; I won't be engaging. The guns and killing aspect of Batman comes down to whatever director who's involved wants to do with the character - I've just never been a fan of that Batman.

    I hate Jared Leto's Joker and that can go away now forever, thanks.
    I don't want to debate that either as I really don't care. But I learned recently that the whole no kill rule was actually started in Batman #4 because of censorship. The original character actually had a gun. Knowing it was just uptight bullshit censorship that caused the change makes me think differently about it. But, like you, I think it just comes down to whatever the storyteller is going for in that particular vision.

    When Batman is in no kill mode though, I actually think it makes the character MORE badass. I think it's because it's hard enough to do what he does, but add to that that he has to do it while being sure not to kill makes it much more challenging for him. And I like to watch that. Then again, the BvS warehouse scene is the best depiction of a Batman fight we've ever seen in live action.

    Leto's Joker: I'm actually surprised that hasn't been brought up in this thread much. I definitely liked the design much more than the abomination from SS and I thought he delivered the lines ok. But that laugh. That ain't it. It's weak. Joaquin kinda had a weaker laugh but it felt unhinged and it just worked. Ledger's was primal. Mark Hamill's is batshit insane. Leto just sounds like he's having trouble breathing or something.

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    This movie just proves Leto is not a good Joker at all. Again, another weird character flip. He went from wannabe gangsta in Suicide Squad to meth head in this. Ledger is still the best Joker in my book. I just don't find Leto intimidating. You need someone with presence. Ledger felt unhinged and dangerous. Leto just feels like a cartoon.

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    I'll always wonder what they would have done with Ledger's Joker in Dark Knight Rises. I don't think he would have been the focus but his performance in TDK would have demanded he returned, at least as a wild card. And there is no wilder card than that.

    This made me laugh


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    So here's something different. The CW's Batwoman show is uhh recasting it's lead. Again.

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    I haven't finished it yet because I'm sure as shit not going to sit through all 4 hours in one sitting, but one of my complaints so far is that Wonder Woman feels WAAAY over-powered so far. It can't just be me, right?? All of the sudden she's got the speed of The Flash and the power & strength of Superman. In the scene when she shows up and saves the kids from those armed robbers with the bomb, I was thinking "why does she even need the rest of the Justice League? Now Wonder Woman can block dozens of bullets while moving at light speed and knock guys through walls with ease." They make it feel like she could take on Steppenwolf all by herself, which deflates the threat and tension. Also, the Half in the Bag guys have already weighed-in on the Snyder Cut. I haven't watch it yet, but I can't wait to see what they think and my desire to watch that episode will likely give me the strength to power through if this gets worse. So far, it does at least seem like a more coherent movie.


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    You reminded me of the Jhonen Vasquez tweet from this weekend:



    and this one just because it's in the same thread



    Last edited by allegate; 03-22-2021 at 01:22 PM.

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    The whole Wonder Woman blowing up the bank robber was baffling. You literally blew up the bank you were trying to stop from blowing up.

    I found the whole Superman comes back to life and fights the Justice League completely stupid and makes no sense. It's just a way to force a lame attempt at a 10 minute long Captain America: Civil War-esque DC fight.

    All the fight scenes are uninspiring and just blah.

    The Martian Manhunter stuff was pointless and forced.

    The more I think about this movie, the more I realize it is still not good.
    Last edited by neorev; 03-22-2021 at 06:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    I do love black and white but will it make the slow motion better?

    And you know how Cyborg kept talking about Bruce's plane wanting to fly? How he knew because the plane told him so? I know Cyborg was connecting to the plane's systems and all but what those scenes reminded me of was this:


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    hell, it makes the shot in the tweet look like a movie from a game or something.

  23. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    The whole Wonder Woman blowing up the bank robber was baffling. You literally blew up the bank you were trying to stop from blowing up.

    I found the whole Superman comes back to life and fights the Justice League completely stupid and makes no sense. It's just a way to force a lame attempt at a 10 minute long Captain America: Civil War-esque DC fight.
    It might not have happened if Cyborg's defensive system didn't send a rocket out at him, therefore identifying them as threats. He just came back to life and didn't know who anyone was until Lois helped him regain his memory. If I recall correctly, the "I remember you" to Batman is no longer a part of that, so he appears to just be attacking them all because of Cyborg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    Holkneborg's score is better than Danny Eflman's score by leaps and bounds, even if it suffers from the sound BWOMP BWOMP that Hans Zimmer's superhero scores have suffered from. The Wonder Woman theme sounds WAY better than Elfman's half-realized version did. The meme going around is super accurate, however. The other moments, including the new Batman cue and the music from the big Flash moment were great and hearing the MOS version of Superman's them was nice. I hated that Elfman felt like he had to use his original Batman theme and John Williams' Superman theme not because I hate them or anything, but that because he did the same thing with those that he did with the Avengers theme in AOU - he half-baked them into motifs that had traces of the theme before devolving them into a flurry of strings and other cues. I fucking love his Batman theme (who doesn't?), but the fact that he couldn't give us the chance for an updated, sweeping version of it similar to what he did from Batman '89 to Batman Returns. His use of the John Williams Superman theme was also hot garbage for all the same reasons. So, for all of that, it was nice hearing something consistent with the other Snyder films.
    Did you know the Holkenborg is a student of Zimmer?
    He was the primary composer for the 2015 film Mad Max: Fury Road and the 2016 film Deadpool, and was co-composer for the film Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, along with Zimmer (who still wrote all the main themes, including the music for Wonder Woman which was later used in the film of the same name). Zimmer was replaced by Junkie XL to write and compose the music for Justice League released in 2017. Holkenborg was later replaced by Danny Elfman, brought up by Joss Whedon.
    complicated. also MM:FR is still his only great score.

    side note: listened to the score today and I was constantly reminded this is a score for a four-hour movie because I was like "it's still going!" several times.

    when I first heard about Elfman putting the '89 and '77 themes in the movies I was like, of course. I was totally expecting the return of Superman to have that score blasting over it because why not? That would have been gold. But no it was used in such a wimpy throwaway motif instead. ugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wight rabbit View Post
    It might not have happened if Cyborg's defensive system didn't send a rocket out at him, therefore identifying them as threats. He just came back to life and didn't know who anyone was until Lois helped him regain his memory. If I recall correctly, the "I remember you" to Batman is no longer a part of that, so he appears to just be attacking them all because of Cyborg.
    Yeah, but he was clearly treating them like a threat before Cyborg attacked, which is why his suit reacted. Also, so Superman is just an instant killing machine? Remember how hard it was for him to kill Zod? Now he's just instantly annihilating people, those who attacked and even innocent bystanders, without question? It just feels off, especially the way it was handled in the movie. It had no weight to it. Just felt like WB/DC wanted to shove in a quick Civil War-esque scene without earning it.

    Then again, I'm someone who didn't like the nightmare epilogue at all.
    Last edited by neorev; 03-23-2021 at 07:15 PM.

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    Last edited by burnmotherfucker!; 03-23-2021 at 09:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    This was great. I was pleasantly surprised how much fun these guys had with it. Half in the Bag is one of the best. Man they really tear the 2017 Joss edition a new one in this video. The clips of them watching on the couch are hilarious. And that laugh! It's better than Leto's by a country mile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    This was great. I was pleasantly surprised how much fun these guys had with it. Half in the Bag is one of the best. Man they really tear the 2017 Joss edition a new one in this video. The clips of them watching on the couch are hilarious. And that laugh! It's better than Leto's by a country mile.

    Red Letter Media are great. Half In The Bag, Re:view, Best Of The Worst

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    Quote Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker! View Post
    If the only thing that comes out of this that people can generally agree on is that studios should let the people they hire do their jobs without interference in order to get a better product, then that's a win for everyone. Every single review with the exception of one that I have seen declares this new cut is superior to the old one, even the extremely negative reviews are saying that. Suits should stay out of the creative process is the lesson here.

    Yeah Marvel had a singular vision for the story they wanted to tell and they stuck with it. And it made them buckets of money. If they had changed course every time they put out a lackluster shit movie it would have gone south.

    Artistically though, their hands aren't exactly clean either. They are owned by the mouse after all. And the mouse like all studios bows to the cash.

    https://www.cnet.com/features/marvel...t-even-notice/

    Well i did use the line of beggars can't be choosers. If you and i were making decisions, pretty sure we would tell these stories in chronological order with as much depth as possible because we grew up reading these comics and watching the cartoon series, Marvel and DC.

    But yeah, we don't get to call the shots on these things and yeah it is about making the most money possible and let's not kid ourselves, just cause Marvel is owned by "the mouse" doesn't mean WB doesn't make decisions on storytelling purely on making money. It's a business, sorry to ruin anyone's perception of what these companies are after. One just seems more put out more entertaining content than the other and truthfully, it's not even close.

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