Active Member
Yeah, that is absolutely taken out of context. He's clearly saying "fuck Mandy Moore and fuck [catering to] underage chicks [as an audience], just go do what you do without being concerned about commercial appeal." Do you really think TR would publicly tell a journalist that he told Manson to fuck underage girls? Like seriously?
This Cannot Continue
I can see these out of context comments being big news (off the back of the CL non story) for 5mins and then the next big online dog pile will happen. There's isn't enough here for most to really get riled by, and the few that actually looks into them will see the context and how much of a non story it is. The only ones who really get vocal will get distracted when a bigger target with more tangible evidence (or more easily out of context sound bites) appear.
That's internet 2021, everyone loves a dog pile. An easy punch to score internet kudos with the smallest effort...
BADGERS
I don't want to be so quick to rush to the defense of someone just because I like their music, and we can be skeptical of Courtney's claim without stigmatizing things that are stigmatized like addiction, etc.
Also... There are groupie boards?
Administrator
here’s what @Leviathant posted to reddit a few months back when this came up there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comment...s_ago/gru7o9w/
the quote is dumb. who cares if little girls make music? i’m sure trent has a different pov now.
reading is fundamental.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tempus est umbra in mente
what seems clear is Courtney ran onto Instagram and said something stupid because she was wasted. It's not worth analyzing beyond that point.Originally Posted by Wretchedest
reznorwaver
There is one person, not a victim, claiming that she saw (and watched without acting) something more than 20 years ago. The interview quotes surfaced on twitter a while ago and there was noone claiming to be a victim.
So we have no crime but a crazy professional widow posting stuff for some minutes and deleting it.
Even if I wouldn't care about Trent I'd be on his side.
Give me another member of Hole telling the same story or a victim, then I'd change my view but right now we have the unreliable narrator throwing shit at people.
Last edited by reznovka; 06-17-2021 at 02:39 PM. Reason: drunk typos
Administrator
misogyny is in every industry no doubt. we cannot let shit like this distract us from doing what’s right. unfortunately i’m easily baited when it comes to nin and i commented on the post. i put matt’s reddit post in a reply to the account. i hope they read it and take the post down or at least clarify the context.
it’s really weird to me that people want to convict trent reznor based on something courtney love and marilyn manson said. they’re both abusers. the people in their lives have told us so. reznor told us so. i don’t see why anyone would believe either of them on the subject of him.
Active Member
Thanks, I'm glad to read about it from someone who remembers the interview.
I don't recall this exact one, but I did read and watch many interviews in that time period, and shitting on pop music was a regular theme in his interviews back then. If he was drinking at the time, it would make sense that his thoughts might not have come out fully formed, which could easily lead to this sort of quote.
Thanks for posting that, I'm going to go back to not wondering about it unless something new comes to light.
Active Member
That comment about little girls making music reminds me of support for Queen Kwong where she said it was like a brother relationship when she was 17 I think. I just think if he was some underage girl perv he’d have tried it on with her.
BADGERS
This is kind of what I'm talking about though like... Can we not call a Grammy winning artist in her own right a professional widow? Ffs
Active Member
When Johnny Carson was told he was a national treasure by Mike Wallace, he joked back “now you know what the dollar is worth”.
tempus est umbra in mente
Courtney Love is not just a "grammy winning artist" as if that REALLY means shit... it's an award your label buys for you. She has issues, and it's not been something people haven't talked about. She dragged a journalist by her hair into the street and tried to beat the shit out of her because she didn't like something she said. People are scared of her, and it's not because she's a "grammy winning artist"
Administrator
I’m still the person who chuckles at the end of Captain Marvel where “Celebrity Skin” plays over the end titles of a movie where the lead wears a NIN shirt for around half the film.
reznorwaver
It's a quote by Tori Amos and all I know her for in the last years if being the wife of Kurt Cobain, being in fights and now she ranted about Grohl because of money for music she didn't write.
BADGERS
Right. But there are mysognystic undertones to acting like she rode someone else to the top and didn't do anything on her own. I am not defending the things she has done, by any means, I am just weary of these kinds of characterizations. It's not the "Grammy" in my comment that matters it's the fact that she created works on her own and framing a complex traumatic traumatic event as something a complex person experienced in a wholly positive way is absolutely toxic no matter who you are talking about. It's not just disparaging to her, but to all survivors of suicide. The oversimplification does us no favors.
Active Member
I absolutely think she should do a new album - however to slag off Grohl because he has other sources of income and isn't reliant on the Nirvana fortune is beyond the pale. I mean she can't get much money for the albums she released as Hole because they are so few so is it really so off to call her professional widow as the nirvana money is what she lives off? I mean her last album was 2010 - do another album and tour and the income is sorted
reznorwaver
That's exactly my point. I don't wanna say that she didn't do anything on her own. She's part of one (if not THE most) successfull female band. She has my repect for that.
But all I know her for nowadays is fighting over money she doesn't deserve.
tempus est umbra in mente
it's totally fair to point out that there's misogynistic tones to a lot of the criticism that gets thrown at Courtney. It's also fair to say we should be able to criticize her without being accused of sexist dog-piling.
Bite me
This is what Courtney said:
"I’m over being made small. And being ‘forced’ to ‘just drop it’ when it affects every generation of my descendants."
See this: https://www.thethings.com/who-inheri...courtney-love/
Frances Bean Cobain will be 29 on August 18, 2021.When Frances started getting funds from her trust, it made her in control of all the publicity rights to her father's name and image instead of Love, but the Hole singer was still in control of two-thirds of the estate.
The same year Frances started receiving funds from her trust, Love sold her the rights to Cobain’s name and likeness, in exchange for a reported $2.75 million loan from the trust.
Love's net worth as of right now is $100 million, mostly from what she inherited from her husband, but since she gave it all to Frances, it is unclear how she's still worth a good sum of money.
Recent legal documents also say that Frances earns over $100,000 per month from her father's estate in the form of royalties, publishing rights, and investment dividends.
They say that Cobain's estate is estimated to be worth about $200 million, through royalties, etc. That's why Frances' net worth is slated at $200 million. She'll eventually get the whole inheritance, including any future assets, whether they be worth $200 million or $450 million when she's 30.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ne/2806822002/
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/04/kurt...ad-celebs.html
So do you mean a mother fighting over money that her daughter doesn't deserve? Or Kurt's grandchildren don't deserve? Because THAT is what this is really about.
Last edited by allegro; 06-18-2021 at 02:07 PM.
Bite me
Tori Amos wrote that song because Tori Amos was being a mean bitch. Plain and simple.
Last edited by allegro; 06-18-2021 at 02:22 PM.
Active Member
theres no mention in that of what the rest of Nirvana are earning though and they seem to be doing ok. Tiniest violin being played for her financial woes here. Frances gets $100,000 a month, boo hoo
Last edited by WorzelG; 06-18-2021 at 02:23 PM. Reason: She gets 100t per month not week
Bite me
Nobody involved has "financial woes," nor are they claiming such. It's about principle, that's how she sees it. It's not about money, it's about control. It's about "legacy."
She was pissed when "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was licensed to be used for a Muppets movie, for instance, under the song management agreement. It's about brand, and when you make royalty decisions, it can affect the brand. It's all complicated stuff. She's allowed to have an opinion about it. She's the widow of the guy who wrote all the songs and her daughter owns all the publishing rights.
Courtney is worth over $100 million. She doesn't have any financial woes. She is no longer collecting anything from Kurt's estate. Whatever her opinion is, it's in the interest of her daughter.
So Dave's the "good guy" and he's really rich, but Frances and Courtney are already rich enough. See, this is the dopey stuff, here. We aren't in a position to "defend" any of these people. We don't KNOW them. But, people immediately go "Courtney is a bitchy addict whore, Dave is a great guy" but don't factor in Courtney's mental issues and maybe didn't witness that whole year or two or more of shit that went on after Kurt killed himself, but I saw that tour, I followed her on Usenet, and it was like watching somebody killing themselves, slowly. She was like a walking wound. But she's still labeled a pariah, blamed for Kurt's death even though he was a junkie way before her, even though he was a mess, had his own mental health issues; it's so much easier to just blame her.
And, really, this has all just become drift in this thread, now, because she's apologized and this is all moot.
Last edited by allegro; 06-18-2021 at 02:42 PM.
Bite me
Yes. There’s one where Bebe Buell occasionally hung out and got into fights.
There's the Penis Chart.
The now-defunct Groupie Dirt was one of the funniest.
Here’s the archived Groupie Dirt report on Trent Reznor.Any girl who would seriously consider bedding Bas [Sebastian Bach] needs to be committed (as in loony bin, not ardent in pursuit!!). Sebastian is a bitter, two faced spoiled brat with a head the size of a country and a brain the size of an amoeba.
Meanwhile:
Meanwhile, see this story. And this one.Red Hot Chili Peppers lead singer Anthony Kiedis apparently isn't so hot: he's been described as "boring," according to one groupie who had him. She adds, "I know he likes 15-year-old girls and I'm in my 20s, so maybe I'm too old for him!"
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...knroll-groupie
Last edited by allegro; 06-18-2021 at 07:08 PM.
reznorwaver
Did the daughter write the songs? I know it's her right to get the money but "deserving" isn't the right word here. She's a model and I guess she doesn't need the money.
I still get your point.
But why does Love have to post about it publicly?
If it's her right, a court will give it to her. That's it.
Last edited by reznovka; 06-19-2021 at 06:56 AM.
Active Member
I don't have a dog in this fight, and I think CL is a piece of shit.... But the legal system isn't some magical place where everything is put right. It's a lot of politics, money and power play.
Back to the topic, I wish there was some sort of comeuppance for her posting bullshit and then recanting. Not everyone reads the recant.
reznorwaver
It's still useless to attack him via IG story. This could be bad for a case since some might fact check the stories and won't give her anything. I don't really care tbh.
Still waiting for the other Hole-members to back her up.
Banned
Frances admitted herself in an interview that she doesn't deserve the money and feels guilty over getting it.....And this idea Kurt was a vagabond junkie before Courtney is total bullshit. Its been reported multiple times she was the one who introduced Kurt to heroin. Thurston Moore and Kim Gordon have talked about how much they loved Kurt and what a nightmare it was having to deal with her and how Kurt changed whenever he was around her. Mark Arm and Buzz Osbourne said he turned into a different person once she came into the picture. Grohl told stories at how Kurt was fun to be around when they were roomies in 1990 and then once Courtney hit the scene, Kurt turned into a different person and a total junkie......Shes a soul sucking vampire who wrecked his life.
From the infamous Vanity Fair 1992 article
There have been rampant reports about the couple’s drug problems, and many believe she introduced Cobain to heroin. They are expecting a baby this year, and even the most tolerant industry insiders fear for the health of the child. “It is appalling to think that she would be taking drugs when she knew she was pregnant,” says one close friend. “We’re all worried about that baby.”
"Reportedly, Kurt didn’t do much more than drink until he met Courtney."
“Courtney and Kurt are the nineties, much more talented version of Sid and Nancy,” says one executive. “She’s going to be famous and he already is, but unless something happens, they’re going to self-destruct. I know they’re both going to be big stars. I just don’t want to be a part of it.”
Twenty different sources throughout the record industry maintain that the Cobains have been heavily into heroin. Earlier this year, Kurt told Rolling Stone that he was not taking heroin, but Courtney presents another, extremely disturbing picture. “We went on a binge,” she says, referring to a period last January when Nirvana was in New York to appear on Saturday Night Live. “We did a lot of drugs. We got pills and then we went down to Alphabet City and Kurt wore a hat, I wore a hat, and we copped some dope. Then we got high and went to S.N.L. After that, I did heroin for a couple of months.”“It was horrible,” recalls a business associate who was traveling with them at the time. “Courtney was pregnant and she was shooting up. Kurt was throwing up on people in the cab. They were both out of it.”
"According to several sources, Courtney and Kurt went to separate detox hospitals in March. “After a few days, she left and went and got him,” says one insider. “They never went back."
"Only about a quarter of what Courtney says is true,” says Kat Bjelland, the leader of Babes in Toyland. “But nobody usually bothers to decipher which are the lies. She’s all about image. And that’s interesting. Irritating, but interesting.”
“Courtney’s delusional,” says Bjelland, who hasn’t spoken to her in a year. “I called her a while ago because I was worried about her baby and her sanity, but I never heard back from her. In the past, I always forgave her, but I can’t anymore. Last night, I had a dream that I killed her. I was really happy.”
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 06-19-2021 at 03:23 PM.
reznorwaver
Wait what?! I thought heroin wasn't TR's thing 0.o
The Devil is in my kiss.
Nah, it wasn't.
Alcohol and blow. Although he accidentally confused it with heroin.
Substance abuse sucks either way. In the end it doesn't matter what TR or CL or Kurt or whoever the fuck are doing or have been doing, it's always going to hell.. and very few make their way back.
Administrator
it’s hard for me to ignore it when people are using my (matt’s) fan site to further perpetuate what courtney love accused him of. i do not find her brilliant. i don’t like most of her work (except 200 cigarettes) and the radio dj story i mentioned earlier in this thread was eye opening. she put on act and then pretended like it never happened. the DJ thought about suing her but he backed off probably coz he doesn’t have her kind of lawyer cash.
anyway i do hope this story goes away. i’m sick of it. it got her tons of attention and i’m sure that satisfies her in some way. the misogyny in music instagram profile blocked me which isn’t surprising but it is disappointing. they’re stance is that using the word “fuck” is a rape joke and we all know that’s not what reznor was saying. i bet the person who runs the account knows what he’s saying and they don’t care. they want courtney to be “right” when she already apologized and recanted. no one wins here.
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