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Thread: Tool

  1. #4531
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    No wonder why "The Pot" is my favorite from that album.
    Personally i don't want them to follow the 10,000 days direction (but listening to the two singles, it's a fact they will...), but i know that the band from "Undertow" and "Opiate" is long gone...
    At least we’ll have the extended/reworked version of the Opiate title track when it’s released in 10,000 years.

  2. #4532
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    I've been revisiting tool for the first time in many years, on account of like g the two new songs a bit. I had separated a bit from tool both in that they less available in the Spotify era but also after hearing that Maynard treats the people around him like shit, that latter sentiment is still pretty upsetting to me, but revisiting this catalogue has been an interesting exercise in noticing how I've aged.

    For instance, at last listen I definitely held Aenima and Lateralus in highest esteem, viewing 10,000 days as a bit of a cheap imitation of those two, rife with cheesey "spiritual" overtones. I'd say maybe the third thing keeping me off tool for so long would be it's, possibly unintentional, reverence among the "weed cures cancer" "chemtrails crowd," a kind of cringey white appropriation and ambiguation of different kinds of spirituality, and that all is still there when I listen back... In all three of those albums, it is as goofey and cringey as ever, as far as the lyrics and art are concerned. My aversion to that has definitely grown in the Alex Jones era of information, alongside the resurgence of measles
    When there isn't that element of pretention there is a teenage element of edginess. They threaten the whole thing.

    The musicianship on the otherhand is still great and I can appreciate the complexity and talent in it more than I could before. Today, I think "Opiate" comes out on top. Never quite overcoming some of those lyrical issues but being raw and real enough, and maybe even self-aware.

    Strangest toe I think Rosetta Stone might be the song that holds up the best to me, I assumed I would probably think it was too corny in my 9th year of sobriety, but I still love the music on it, even if the opening is a little tacky on the "I do drugs" in the r/IHaveSex way. That song still rocks. It's rhythms are still super fun. It's lyrics are successfully pretty funny, and occasionally pretty real.

    Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

  3. #4533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    after hearing that Maynard treats the people around him like shit

    I know the guy is a bit odd/sarcastic/cynical but I dont think he treats the people around him like shit...

    Why would the laundry list of musicians that have been working with him repeatedly for the past 10 years CONTINUE to work with him? Not sticking up for the guy but I think he is an easy target to place the "asshole" stigma on. He trolls his fans...so what? In most instances, it is funny and more than likely deserved since most of us (his fans) are entitled tools (hehe) myself included.

  4. #4534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    I know the guy is a bit odd/sarcastic/cynical but I dont think he treats the people around him like shit...

    Why would the laundry list of musicians that have been working with him repeatedly for the past 10 years CONTINUE to work with him? Not sticking up for the guy but I think he is an easy target to place the "asshole" stigma on. He trolls his fans...so what? In most instances, it is funny and more than likely deserved since most of us (his fans) are entitled tools (hehe) myself included.
    There's some well documented incidents of him places strict rules on venue staff, threatening to fire them, talking down to them. Like serious stuff, narcissistic shit, not like just goofing off and being a prick. Nobody deserves that while working, under any circumstances, and no one is entitled to treat people like that regardless of who they are.

  5. #4535
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  6. #4536
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    Egads, I am shocked to my core at the suggestion that Maynard James Keenan might be a huge stuck up diva.

  7. #4537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    He trolls his fans...so what? In most instances, it is funny.

    Not sure if calling his fans "insufferable retards" off the cuff in an interview is trolling the fans. Especially considering he backtracked from it after it got printed in the press...Thats far more likely how he truly feels..I think MJK could give a fuck about his fans (or his bandmates) for that matter and is probably doing this tour/album cycle to get enough $$$ for an addition to his winery so he can take another 14 years in between albums and churn out more half baked Puscifer albums
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 05-21-2019 at 03:12 AM.

  8. #4538
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    "Well documented". -- not discounting you but in this time of witch hunt culture, I don't base my opinions on people and their actions/history based on things printed on the internet. Not saying what you are mentioning isn't true...I just haven't seen that/those specific incident(s).

    At the Puscifer VIP event, he was very polite when speaking to the fans and staff and grateful for people giving a shit about his band...maybe all for show. :shrug:

    I am SURE he is just doing this TOOL tour cycle/album for the money. They ALL are. lol. I do believe they all genuinely like the art though and enjoy making a record. If they didn't, Adam, Danny, and Justin could just form a prog instrumental band that would still sell well. And it is "well documented" that is was Adam and crew that took 14 years in between albums... just saying.

    Let's move on, no need for us to get hung up on this. Let's just agree to disagree. Shit, I've been wrong about things most of my life and am more than likely wrong about this haha.

    But hey...NEW TOOL ALBUM! woot.

  9. #4539
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    He devoted a whole song to telling a fan they’re a dumbass. We know how he feels.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #4540
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    Y’all need to chill.

    A lot of artists become as successful as they are because they demand a lot of control and act like “divas.”

    Maynard has has had decades of people hounding him during his private life. He’s become a seemingly unique conduit for people to project their hopes, aspirations, and fear onto.

    The Tool fan base is one of the most obsessive and unrelenting fan bases out there. He’s made comments that he feels like the faux intellectualism permeating the fan base has made it harder for him to feel like he’s able to make art that people will enjoy on its own or express a sense of humor in his music.

    I mean, shit, on the Toolnavy boards there are wildly bizarre fan theories. One of my favorites is that Wings For Marie is actually about Satan. The author of the thread even acknowledges it’s about Maynard’s mother but adds a, “But it’s also about...” to the end. That’s nuts.

    And, to be fair, the band’s sense of shadows and mystery played a big part of all this and Maynard played into all of that, too.

    He also can’t escape the shadow of Tool. People badgered him about Tool while he was working with A Perfect Circle, Puscifer, and even his vineyard. I can get why he’s annoyed.

    And, yeah, he fills in all the diva and asshole checklists. I get that. I just don’t care. Let the man have his private life and his various unique endeavors. Have your signings and selfies with the other members of the band.


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  11. #4541
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    Talking for a minute about being an asshole to your co-workers (people employed by the venue where you're performing, or the event promoter), not to fans... I have an appreciation for the man's work ethic and much of his work, but I don't dig hearing about him placing unreasonable demands and outlandish requests on concert venue staff and independent contractors working at the show.

    I mean, I worked a single Tool show (back in 2006 at the Molson Amphitheatre), and we weren't even allowed to look at the stage while he was up there. It was a little weird, but I get it, performance can be a sacred space, and we respected his wishes. If that's part of a bigger pattern that extends to other aspects of the backstage environment, well, that's not cool.

  12. #4542
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    Word, @botley . As I've said before, there are things about Maynard that I wish I just didn't know. I knew next to nothing about him for, hell, almost twenty years, and, it worked better that way, for multiple reasons.

  13. #4543
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    So...NEW TOOL ALBUM COMING...

  14. #4544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reznor2112 View Post
    So...NEW TOOL ALBUM COMING...
    My dude - sometimes you can just let the conversation flow for a minute before trying to get it back to anticipation for something we're still a few months away from. This is a good conversation about Maynard; let it flow.

  15. #4545
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    Just enjoy the music. Most musicians and artists are assholes. They live in their own reality. They are the kind of people who want a world without borders while living behind the tallest walls money can buy.

  16. #4546
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    My dude - sometimes you can just let the conversation flow for a minute before trying to get it back to anticipation for something we're still a few months away from. This is a good conversation about Maynard; let it flow.

    No I know haha. Just a hail mary. If you defend Maynard or even attempt to "empathize" with why he acts a certain way, you are a "fan boy" and more than likely the argument will not sway the opinions of those that do not like him or condone his behavior. Seemed like a lose lose. Those that hate him will continue to. I have never heard anything about him being rude to venue staff -- but I have never heard otherwise either. I find it a little hard to believe that Maynard gives a shit if a staff member looks at the stage...Sounds more like the management or venue staff leader wanting the employees to keep an eye on the crowd..

    Someone mentioned Hooker With a Penis -- yes...he was calling a fan out and it was funny -- I can only imagine how much "fuck you" mail this dude used to get and that song was his outlet for that frustration. I can understand that.

    As I said, he was very polite to all of us in the two Puscifer VIP soundchecks I have seen but I am sure he can be a dick. We all can. My ONLY hesitation to jump on the "he is a horrible person wagon" is what I mentioned earlier about him being an easy target. He is a lot like Neil Peart -- he just into fandom and just wants to do his art and make his wine. He is an introvert and im sure is a very insecure person at heart...hence the dick joke/sarcastic front that we all see. Just my opinion. Isnt fact.

  17. #4547
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    Google "MJK asshole" and all sorts of goodies come up....This is a good one

    "I met him once and he was a dick (this was back during APCs first headlining tour) and had another backstage encounter with him. On their last tour, he had hand picked all of the attractive women at the show, gave them passes and met with them after. During the meet and greet after the show, he had them all sitting down and he was standing up talking to them. A lot of the girls were sitting there with a "WTF" expression...oh and I forgot to mention that he had a security guard making it so no one could get within about 50 feet of him and the women"

  18. #4548
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    ^We get it. You seriously have some kind of problem with Maynard and all of the bands he's in, given your obsessive need to repeatedly posting inflammatory things in every thread that has anything to do with him.

  19. #4549
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    Maynard is 55 now. Visiting behaviors from years ago I suppose remains interesting for fans, but we are all different than who we were 25 years ago, or 15, or 5. A person could also read his book and hear what MJK thinks of it too when looking back. From his book, quotes are MJK, nonquotes are book text:

    "It happens to almost everybody who suddenly becomes famous. We’re not wired to handle that much attention, but it just seems like the path you’re on, so you go down it. You want intimacy, but you’re in motion. You’re not ready to settle down, so you just follow the sexual thing. Most people fall into chemical addiction, which is harder to get out of. I was lucky enough to fall into a kind of ego addiction. She likes me! She likes the name of the band! She likes what I sing about! And the more you dabble in that, the less chance there is of a relationship. She has no idea who I am. I knew the difference between attention and real connection, but I forgot it for a minute. I didn’t even think about what I was doing. I was just having fun."

    He might prearrange a tryst with the woman in Berlin he’d met the last time he’d passed through, never doubting her interest. And he cavalierly skipped after-show drinks with old friends to prolong a rendezvous with an attractive stranger selected from the Seattle audience the night before. The assignations were consensual, no-strings-attached, seemingly perfect. But the validation was short-lived. “You’re left wanting to be wanted for you, and you’re not going to get that with these people,” he would explain years later. “They’re looking for something else, that larger-than-life thing. But you lose track of that and fall victim to your own behavior.”

  20. #4550
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    You have to admit; there are a LOT of super douchey Tool fans out there. I encountered several over the weekend in Chicago who were behind my friends and I talking the entire time they were playing Invincible. Then there are the fans who bitch CONSTANTLY on EVERY post asking where the new album is, etc. I honestly don't blame him, sometimes it seems like most of their fan-base are every bit as much an asshole – if not more so.

  21. #4551
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    Yeah, I was just about to say there's a difference between Maynard's behavior back then vs. the calmer, older, husband and father he is now. That doesn't mean he's not still a dick, but he definitely doesn't seem to be the guy from the late 90's early 00's stories.

    Also, MJK is one of the big ones for me when it comes to separating the person from the art. I love Trent as a person and as an artist. I love MJK as an artist, and I like listening to him as a person when it comes to his philosophy and ideas about certain things, but he's low on my list of artists I follow who I'd actually want to emulate in life (or even meet, for that matter).

  22. #4552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Google "MJK asshole" and all sorts of goodies come up....This is a good one

    "I met him once and he was a dick (this was back during APCs first headlining tour) and had another backstage encounter with him. On their last tour, he had hand picked all of the attractive women at the show, gave them passes and met with them after. During the meet and greet after the show, he had them all sitting down and he was standing up talking to them. A lot of the girls were sitting there with a "WTF" expression...oh and I forgot to mention that he had a security guard making it so no one could get within about 50 feet of him and the women"
    Instead, I googled “Mike Patton asshole”. Here’s a good one!...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...istant_worker/

    I really don’t care about either one of them outside of the music for the record, just stop trolling dude.
    Last edited by Krazy; 05-21-2019 at 05:51 PM.

  23. #4553
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    To be fair, I see a lot of John Lennon in some of MJK's persona.

    Keep you doped with religion, and sex, and T.V.
    And you think you're so clever and classless and free
    But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

    A working class hero is something to be

    -John Lennon



  24. #4554
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    Also, @Krazy , I feel you about not caring too much outside of the music.
    And, I honestly didn't expect the guy with the mullet hawk, who wrote the Opiate album to be super fucking friendly to begin with. So, there's that.

  25. #4555
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo eighteen View Post
    ^We get it. You seriously have some kind of problem with Maynard and all of the bands he's in, given your obsessive need to repeatedly posting inflammatory things in every thread that has anything to do with him.
    No its more like I have a problem with his "insufferable" fans who suck him off at every turn and run like guard dogs to defend him because someone dare offend their sacred christ Maynard....Did you know the hidden meaning of life is in his tattoos? Sure there is a 96969696 page discussion about it on the Tool reddit....There are also secret hidden messages directed from MJK to you the listener on 'Hooker With a Penis' but you can only hear it if you play it on your vinyl backwards 9 times and then on the 10th time, the message is clear.
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 05-21-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  26. #4556
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    @Helpmeiaminhell , just out of curiosity, are you, or have you ever been, a tool fan?

  27. #4557
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  28. #4558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    No its more like I have a problem with his "insufferable" fans who suck him off at every turn...etc.
    So you think they guy is a dick for calling fans insufferable retards, but then give a laundry list of reasons why he would say that, that you, yourself, seem to agree with. Seems you two have some common ground there.

    I honestly think the reason 40% of the fanbase has been clamoring for new music is because they're pseudo-intellectual, they only learn new shit from Tool songs and they're desperately in need of something new to spout because their "vast, esoteric knowledge" of the Fibonacci sequence is no longer garnering them the adulation it did 20 years ago.

    Another 40% are just "fans" that want something new to complain about. Could be because the new album didn't sound exactly like one of the previous albums (or, in the instance of 10k Days, because it did.) Take your pick.

    That's roughly 80% of your fanbase being insufferable retards. Give or take. Personally, I don't find the constant dick-suckery or the constant, unbridled hatred any less annoying than the other.

    I can also understand the frustration the man has. He became famous when he was an angry youth. He's grown over the years, but so many of the people that hopped on during Opiate or Undertow have been in arrested development for the last three decades. I've had people that I went to high school with still act like high school kids in their late 30s. Fortunately, I can just choose to not have those people in my life. In Maynard's case, he can't as easily choose who his fans are, and because of that, I'm not prepared to condemn the guy based on how some of his dumber followers act.

  29. #4559
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    I will always remember that Lateralus era video interview (good times) where Maynard referred to Tool fans as "artists in their own way", and other comments about them meant as a compliment in contrast to a lot of the dummy qualities that seemed to be mostly coming from fans of music of the likes of "Slip Diskit" (as Maynard snidely called Limp Bizkit lol), and other big bands in that time period. And since then, shit changes, as everything does. #derp

    Some of you seem to expect the most perfectly modulated human being to be in the limelight. Consider that, increasingly so in the times we live in, it's most relevant to report any and all bad shit, and barely any good. Open up the news - there's how the majority of people very unfortunately tend to view the world, and take out from it. It's what sells, and it's the easiest way to break this world down.

    Having said that, Maynard always seems to have been a diva of sorts, possibly never a warm-and-fuzzy guy to just anybody in the public eye(?), and now he's middle-aged with a LOT on his plate. I don't believe any of us know even 1/16th of the recognition Maynard lives by. That's not an excuse for any of his reported poor manners/behaviors, but just a reminder that yOu DoN't KnOw what that has been like after many years, for him (who, as a person, you don't actually know to begin with). And, to reiterate myself: you don't know if there are positive interactions people could speak to in their dealing with Maynard (unless you were one of those lucky ones :P).

    I'd absolutely imagine, particularly for some people, fame for the most part simply wears you straight thin... I know I wouldn't want it.

    Nothing else to dissect. Maynard's not your friend. Neither is your neighborhood waste collection worker.
    Last edited by Amaro; 05-22-2019 at 10:57 AM.

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