Trump 2019 - There are still children in detention separated from their parents

[ltrandazzo]

Diatribe:

I think now is as good a time as any to remind everyone that we may be utterly disappointed in the final findings of this report and that it will lead to some of the dumbest takes and op-eds from the best and worst pundits on cable news and print. DEMS IN DISARRAY AFTER MUELLER REPORT DOES NOT CALL FOR INDICTMENT OF TRUMP, WHAT WILL THE DEMOCRATS DO NOW?, THERE NEVER REALLY WAS A PEE TAPE, WHY MY FATHER WAS NEVER GUILTY, etc. Remember that this investigation brought about indictments, confessions, guilty pleas and jail sentences for people in Trump's orbit and that this man has done plenty of things already in public that should lead to his impeachment.

It probably won't happen. Regardless, what we can do that politicians in Washington DC have chosen not do is hold this administration and this man accountable by voting them all out of office in 2020. And after that, we hold the Republicans accountable for what they've done to this country over the last 25+ years and never let them get this close again. It doesn't end with Trump getting voted out, just like it doesn't end with what the Mueller report ends up saying.

[ryanmcfly]

[theimage13]

You read it here first:

Trump will not be indicted for anything because of the report. There will not be a video of him giving Putin a blowjob on a mattress full of hundred dollar bills and wiping off the cum with an American flag before handing him a briefcase with "American Secrets" printed on it in big block letters.

And because of that, Fox and the like will be screaming "this 100% clears Trump of ANY wrongdoing of ANY kind, he is clearly a saint who has never told a lie, Hilary should be in jail, and the entire judicial branch is nothing but a Democratic deep state witch hunt who wants to kill babies and murder our fearless leader."

And because of that, his base will go so riled up that he'll sail to a second term.

I wish I was kidding about this, but I honest to god believe that this will be the outcome.

[allegro]

Lol I didn’t read it here first.

But that’s how law works.

Just like how Republicans are pissed that Comey didn’t convict Hillary (for lack of mens rea or direct evidence), I have always suspected that this report will recommend that Trump didn’t do anything worthy of indictment.

And - like @ltrandazzo said, many will go apeshit.

Will this means the House Dems will stop their inquest?

No.

I’m more concerned that young and minority Democrat voters won’t get off their asses (and stop waiting for their Jesus Perfect candidate) and VOTE.

[elevenism]

I’m more concerned that young and minority Democrat voters won’t get off their asses (and stop waiting for their Jesus Perfect candidate) and VOTE.

As am i.
I subscribe, for instance, to some radical Black youtubers, because i'm quite interested in their perspective, like people promoting the American Descendants of Slaves movement, who are seeking reparations and such.

And that's all well and good, and i DEFINITELY understand the line of thinking, to a point- a very precise point. It's the point where these influencers are telling people NOT to vote, UNLESS the candidate is offering very specific things (a tangible plan for reparations, for instance, in the case of the specific people i mentioned above.)

The idea is that this, and other groups, feel like the Democratic party has been using minorities for their votes, without giving them much in return, and that they should just stop voting until they receive tangible promises.

And, hell. I believe that's TRUE in some cases. I get it.

BUT, if enough of this sort of thing happens, we WON'T get rid of Trump in 2020. I hope we can all band together and vote for the "good enough for now" candidate, even if said candidate isn't perfect.

Hell. If the candidate was somehow Jeb Bush, for instance, running against trump, wouldn't most of us vote for him?

[M1ke]

Hell. If the candidate was somehow Jeb Bush, for instance, running against trump, wouldn't most of us vote for him?

NOT TRUMP for President.

That's how it'd go for me.

[Patrick_Nicholas]

I'm with you on being pretty damn sure that Mueller's report will conclude that there is no conclusive evidence that Trump directly coordinated with Russian officials (likely because Trump shredded whatever he could shred). Sure, there are many people on the Trump team who lied under oath about their contacts. Sure, has been acting very suspicious regarding all things related to Russia (such as FIRING THE GUY INVESTIGATING HIM for obstruction of justice). But because there are no recordings of his talks with Putin, there is just enough wiggle room for reasonable doubt so Trump can narrowly avoid getting his ass indicted over this.

What we need to focus on is 2020. Sure, pretty much every primary candidate has dirt on them, but we're still better off with any of them than we are with Trump. It is also smarter to hold off impeachment until we learn more about the other investigations, so the Senate Republicans wouldn't be able to fight it very easily. The Kavanaugh shitstorm should have made it obvious that the Senate Republicans are going to stick up for Trump no matter what, and the Cohen hearings have confirmed that the House Republicans are no better.

[Exocet]

as someone who has worked in the Eastern Europe/West Asia area for about a decade, i always knew people were setting themselves up to fail with this story.
its just not how Russia works, never has been, its not powerful enough, its a normal European country, it has a smaller economy than Italy, its size and Nuclear arsenal are the only things that set it apart, Vladimir Putin is just this generations Slobodan Milosovic, they has all been playing into Trumps hand since the day it started, he is not dumb he knows this has weakened the left.
MSNBC, CNN only care about ratings. Rachel Maddow is a dirty grifter, im glad this proves it. feel sorry for people who follow her. Glen Greenwald was right from day one the amount of abuse he had was astonishing.

[ltrandazzo]

Hell. If the candidate was somehow Jeb Bush, for instance, running against trump, wouldn't most of us vote for him?

Most people didn't vote for Jeb in 2016 so... no.

[elevenism]

Most people didn't vote for Jeb in 2016 so... no.

Ah, I mean most of US.
My point is, wouldn't you vote for damn near anyone who is "not as bad" as the awful bastard currently in office?

Edit:
I guess I didn't word that quite right.

As far as actually VOTING, you're right @ltrandazzo , that people probably wouldn't. I meant more like "wouldn't we PREFER damn near anyone."

[allegro]

Rachel Maddow is a dirty grifter

Rachel Maddow is a Rhodes Scholar. She has a B.A. in Public Policy from Stanford and a doctorate from Oxford in Politics.

Also, this was never about Russia as a country. Guys at the top like Putin, Aleksey Mordashov, Vladimir Potanin, Vladimir Lisin, Leonid Mikhelson, Alisher Usmanov, etc. etc. are all multibillionaires. Russia has MANY multibillionaires and they ALL invest the vast majority of their wealth offshore.

See Panama Papers and Paradise Papers. See this for explanation.

See also the Magnitsky Act, to which Putin reacted by stopping the adoption of Russian children by Americans - the alleged “reason” for the Donald Trump Jr. Trump Tower meeting. (Congress has been threatening to use the Magnitsky Act against Putin, personally, for human rights violations. Putin is worth an estimated $200 billion, and sanctioning him would GREATLY affect that.)



We don’t know what’s IN the Mueller report, yet.

This is what happens, now: The Attorney General will *eventually* submit the report to Congress.

The Special Counsel does NOT have the authority to do ANYTHING to the President of the United States.

CONGRESS will decide what to do with this report regarding the President.

THE HOUSE is still conducting investigations, and the HOUSE will determine what it will do about the info it receives. The House will likely subpoena Mueller.

The impeachment of Trump isn’t impossible, yet.

Removal from office is another story. We don’t know what is in the report.

The investigation ended up being MUCH more than about Russia. It included money laundering, campaign finance fraud, hush money payments, all KINDS of shit.

[Jinsai]

Can we just see what’s in the fucking report please?

[allegro]

Can we just see what’s in the fucking report please?

We aren’t likely to see it for a while.

AG Barr is going to provide Congress with a summary as soon as this weekend, but he’s not providing the entire report to Congress right away. Congress will likely subpoena it. Congress wants the supporting basis (discovery) documents, too.

This isn’t like the Starr Report. There are contacts and info that need to be kept confidential so they have to figure out how to deal with that stuff.

A LOT of Russians were indicted via this investigation, many Americans were indicted, many plead guilty, many found guilty, etc. and some court cases are still ongoing.

[Jinsai]

Yes, I’m just responding more to this ludicrous post from Exocet, let’s just SEE THE FUCKING REPORT BEFORE WE GLOAT ABOUT HOW THERE’S NOTHING IN IT. This goes to all news outlets too, if we’re gonna call Fox that, while THEY gloat about how “celebrities shocked no new indictments” found, or MSNBC and CNN concluding that we shouldn’t despair, don’t worry, the investigation isn’t over, blah fucking blah blah.

Let’s just insist the people need to see what’s in the report. Eventually, but not a generation from now. Let’s clear what can be and release it, and then we can talk about it

[Swykk]

Yeah, Exocet’s a dipshit but the more this went on, seeing Mueller gift wrap cases for NY, it makes me think he did so because if he did the indicting on his level, Trump would just pardon his way out.
Unfortunately, that means we won’t be getting justice soon but probably later. If we can vote the traitorous asshole out in a year, I think he, his eldest son, his dumbass son in law and daughter will all be fucked.

[allegro]

We have to remember that Mueller can’t indict Trump. He wasn’t given that authority.

And Trump hasn’t pardoned anyone linked to this investigation, when he could have done it. He was allegedly advised that it would look like obstruction.

[theimage13]

We have to remember that Mueller can’t indict Trump. He wasn’t given that authority.

And Trump hasn’t pardoned anyone linked to this investigation, when he could have done it. He was allegedly advised that it would look like obstruction.

Would it still look like obstruction if he waited until his last day in office? Because right now my money is on a huge list of pardons right before he leaves for the final time, be it 2021 or 2025.

[Jinsai]

Would it still look like obstruction if he waited until his last day in office? Because right now my money is on a huge list of pardons right before he leaves for the final time, be it 2021 or 2025.

I don't think Trump is going to pardon anyone. He's just going to float the idea, but eventually he'll throw people under the bus anyway and if they flip then he'll just say that they're lying.

Like that fable where the scorpion asks the frog if he can hitch a ride across the river. Trump is nobody's friend. The only people I could see him pardoning would be his immediate family.

Anyway... looks like we'll be getting the bullet point summary of the report sooner than we (or at least I) expected. Word is it's expected Sunday... like, today.

https://twitter.com/ktbenner/status/1109902543843409921

[allegro]

Interesting, not surprised.

We knew Russia did it. And the recent books I read about Trump and the people he loves show they’re all crooked but not a mastermind in the bunch.

Bunch of showmen and salesmen and grifters and wannabes and con artists, but Trump didn’t even truly have a “campaign.” His HQ was an empty smelly space in the Trump Tower with a staff of three.

I wonder if Russia will keep doing this shit, though.

Barr’s legal basis re obstruction is interesting, too. Gonna be hard to prove mens rea otherwise.

I’m with Speaker Pelosi on this one: The continued focus on impeachment is divisive and takes focus off the real issues that citizens and undocumented citizens face every day. Real change will come through local action, voting, protests, petitions, and pressure on current elected officials to effect the changes required to equally represent all the people.

[theimage13]

Russia will keep doing it. No question. Look at how well it worked. They have no reason to stop.

The comments in that twitter thread above you are horrible. Dems, don't go fucking crying "THIS IS A COVER UP!!!!!" It makes you sound as stupid and batshit crazy as the people you've been making fun of for the last two years. It's not a good look.

[allegro]

They sound like the Republicans when Hillary Clinton wasn’t arrested.

Law doesn’t exist to serve as a revenge vehicle, or to rid us of people.

[Jinsai]

no it doesn't [look good], but I want to have somebody else other than Barr see the report already. The things we absolutely know: Manafort shared internal polling data with Russian intel, Trump Jr released emails that admitted to asking for dirt on Clinton from Russian lawyers in Trump tower, Trump had a deal w/ incentive for Putin himself involving a Moscow Trump tower (which he then played coy about), Roger Stone gets wasted and admits on Twitter to having a back channel to get access to Russian hacked DNC emails, Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to hide his private communications with Putin (whom he has praised and basically granted his greatest geo-political wishes to) during their ill-advised summit that still happened despite concurrent releases about Russian indictments involved in attacking our election...

COME ON, there's still "nothing to see here?" I agree with Pelosi, I don't think impeachment is a route here, it wasn't last week either, and I've been saying as much as well. I also agree with Pelosi that we need to demand, RIGHT FUCKING NOW, that the report be handed off to the public, and if some redactions are necessary then make the redactions. The tax payers paid for this report, and polls say they want to see it.

[allegro]

Congress needs to see it.

The public can see it but it’ll be 5,000 pages and the vast majority of the public hasn’t even read the Second Amendment.

I’m serious.

They think the Second Amendment is this giant Middle English thing they’ll never understand and it’s one fucking short sentence.

Anyway, what MANAFORT did was to enrich himself, that was already clear.

The Trump Jr. meeting was an attempt at opposition research but they discovered that Russian operatives were trying to get a quid pro quo trade to get rid of the Magnitsky Act, which a President can’t even DO so they all walked.

And it appears that there are ongoing court cases in the SDNY related to some of that stuff.

The Trump Tower Deal, probably has NOTHING to do with “The Election” so THERE is the rub. Trump’s been trying to build that stupid tower since the 90s.


Richard Nixon went to China with Kissinger to meet with Chairman Mao AND DIDN’T TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT UNTIL IT HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. Precedent was already set with this shit. Trump is just “pulling a Nixon.”

I think an EVEN MORE IMPORTANT report that’s come out in the last few days is THIS ONE:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...061138dbc70eef

[theimage13]

no it doesn't [look good], but I want to have somebody else other than Barr see the report already. The things we absolutely know: Manafort shared internal polling data with Russian intel, Trump Jr released emails that admitted to asking for dirt on Clinton from Russian lawyers in Trump tower, Trump had a deal w/ incentive for Putin himself involving a Moscow Trump tower (which he then played coy about), Roger Stone gets wasted and admits on Twitter to having a back channel to get access to Russian hacked DNC emails, Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to hide his private communications with Putin (whom he has praised and basically granted his greatest geo-political wishes to) during their ill-advised summit that still happened despite concurrent releases about Russian indictments involved in attacking our election...

COME ON, there's still "nothing to see here?" I agree with Pelosi, I don't think impeachment is a route here, it wasn't last week either, and I've been saying as much as well. I also agree with Pelosi that we need to demand, RIGHT FUCKING NOW, that the report be handed off to the public, and if some redactions are necessary then make the redactions. The tax payers paid for this report, and polls say they want to see it.

You realize that Trump himself has said he wants the report released, right?

Cat Mom is right - most of the public won't read it. The reason it needs to come isn't for the public to see though - it's so people smarter than most of the public can read it and report on it, cite it, and then the public can fact-check them if it seems necessary. The public isn't the target audience, but the release is needed for the sake of transparency. And I believe the release is coming. But *when* is the big issue, because it is THOUSANDS of pages, and there is national security shit in there that will need to be redacted (stuff that can safely be done without really affecting the overall conclusions of the report).

The other thing everyone needs to keep remembering is that "no collusion" doesn't mean "not a criminal". We're still dealing with a president who is almost assuredly a felon, and probably would have been indicted on numerous "boring" crimes already had it not been for his position and two years of Republican protection. And Fox, et al, will be trying VERY hard to get people to completely forget about that.

[Mantra]

I'm very curious to see what the long term political ramifications of this will be.

Will the left be so demoralized by this that they slump into a state of apathy? Or will the feeling of being robbed by this whole experience only make everyone even more pissed off and determined?

And I'm curious how it will impact the 2020 election.

[Jinsai]

guys, you know as well as I do that "making it public" isn't in the interest of the vast majority that won't actually read it, it's about transparency

I'm very curious to see what the long term political ramifications of this will be.

Will the left be so demoralized by this that they slump into a state of apathy? Or will the feeling of being robbed by this whole experience only make everyone even more pissed off and determined?

And I'm curious how it will impact the 2020 election.

As far as immediate optics go, yes, this is pretty fucking bad. If this is where the analysis ends, we're fucked.

That's why it won't end here. For better or worse, depending on where you're standing, when you're standing there.

[sweeterthan]

I’m sure that Jeff Sessions’ replacement is being completely truthful about the report with his summary.

[allegro]

As far as immediate optics go, yes, this is pretty fucking bad. If this is where the analysis ends, we're fucked.

I don’t see it that way.

In the 2016 election, Trump presented himself as the antithesis of the Swamp, the “reboot” guy who was going to “fix” things and bring a bazillion jobs and overturn the ACA and build a wall (and have Mexico pay for it) and he was this business genius from the Apprentice.

In 2020, everybody knows none of that is true. A ton of the people on his administration have been indicted, fired or quit. There hasn’t been one inch of new wall built. The Trump Foundation was shut down and dissolved and his kids were ordered to stay away from charity activities and they are all still subject to a lawsuit in that matter. The Swamp is not only still there, Swamp Central is the Oval Office.

And the Dems plus any Republican or Independent who may opt to go against Trump now has all that ammo.

PLUS, Trump’s new Federal order banning bumpstocks goes into effect on Tuesday. Anyone still in possession of one is subject to Federal felony charges and fines. They must relinquish them with no reimbursement or destroy them.

The 2A people are losing their shit.

Meanwhile, the Mueller investigation WAS A VERY FRUITFUL INVESTIGATION.

Remember: The Starr Report didn’t do shit, in and of itself. Ken Starr didn’t indict Bill Clinton.

[richardp]

Can't help but feel like Trump and the GOP just got handed the 2020 elections on a silver platter.

Boy do I hope I'm wrong.

[Mantra]

Remember: The Starr Report didn’t do shit, in and of itself. Ken Starr didn’t indict Bill Clinton.

True, but Clinton was already halfway through his second term when Starr published his bullshit, so in some ways he was no longer much of a consideration anyways. Yeah, the Republicans were salivating at the thought of kicking him out a couple years early, but even if they didn't succeed with that particular effort, ultimately it didn't matter because he was already on his way out anyway. They got Bush in 2000.

With Russiagate, things are a little different because Trump is still in his first term. Everyone on the left is hoping to prevent him from getting in a second time, and in the minds of a lot of people, the Mueller investigation was a key part of that. So the concern is that this outcome could bolster his support and demoralize the opposition.

I'm not saying I actually believe this will happen. It's just a thought.