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Yeah it wasn't so much a reaction to your post than a reminiscence brought by it, really...
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Can't beat free no matter how you slice it. Some of the best meals you get are the free ones.
Now I'm 0000
Yes! I was watching AVOTT recently and I was surprised to see so much of The Slip right up front. Trent obviously had a lot of confidence in the "free cereal box NIN album." It's weird I never noticed that until now.Originally Posted by elevenism
I get the feeling 1,000,000 says a lot about the way he sees himself these days, or else he wouldn't keep going back to it again and again. Yes it's a great first/second song to open a show, but I don't think that's the only explanation.
Also, Discipline destroys Only. I hope he brings it back someday.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
I believe The Slip would work end to end live better than any album, so I'd love to see that
Administrator
It's a given that reviews cover 30% actual music and 70% circumstances of the recording. Trent Reznor is alive and sober! (With Teeth); ZOMG TEH ARG! (Year Zero); See how many different formats an album can be released with no major label! (Ghosts) See how many different formats an album can be released with no major label! PART DEUX (The Slip) See how inspired Trent is by his marriage/HTDA/soundtracks! (HM)
Memb, Member, The Membest
I enjoyed Year zero without ARG, just for the songs, because they're GOOD, didn't give a damn about deciphering hidden numbers.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
I loved YZ, and enjoyed the ARG, but I don't even really connect them, I don't listen to Vessel and think about Parepin.
Mostly because I totally think Vessel is about fucking dudes.
I was nobody. Nothing.
as in
"I let you put in in my mouth"
and "they tell us what we can and cannot do...when I put you inside of me none of that matters anymore?"
yup. I've thought about that a time or three.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I heard trent talk about that in this npr interview
"I've kind of watched with amusement as the press has latched on to "Reznor, now 48, happily married with two kids and an Oscar winner," as if I can be summed up as that now. "He made a song with a major chord in it that we don't understand" -TR
it was pretty funny to me for some reason.
Active Member
I definitely think a lot of reviews suffer for anything, be it music, films, books, games, etc., because they focus heavily on the context of the release and the creator(s) rather than the actual content. Altogether what matters most is what's in the package, not the stories surrounding it, and while a lot of things can have a lot of depth added and insight given through context, I don't think your average consumer wants to do research in order to enjoy something. When I love something, even when I hate something, I often go out of my way to find out as much about it as possible, but I think that attitude is certainly an exception to the rule.
People called HM the "happy" album simply because Trent now had a wife and children. I'm sorry, but there's nothing happy in any of it, at all. Mention Everything and I'll mention the chorus, the "This thing that lives inside of me will surely rise and wake," the loud distortion when the chorus hits, the almost intentional juxtaposition from this seemingly happy sound to a really ugly, grating sound. Black Noise is oppressive as all hell, Came Back Haunted is pretty unhappy, Copy of a is more questioning relevancy, All Time Low feels like a revisit to the drugged out days of The Fragile era, even tying directly into Into the Void with "the passengers arrived today, it looks as though they're here to stay," Running relates to Hurt in the very opening lines, I just don't hear the "happiness" in that album at all. The title is literally wounds from slitting your wrists, for fuck's sake.
Very often it seems like journalists these days are increasingly focusing on selling some narrative about whatever they're reviewing and focusing on at any given time, and one releases something first and all the others emulate it. Hardly any reviews of HM touch on how, if you put in context, if anything it's saying that having a family doesn't remedy your problems, it simply makes them harder to handle because you have less time for yourself. Hardly anyone touched on how The Slip seems to be so much about relevancy and questioning your voice and importance, wondering if you even matter anymore, of thinking you're past your problems only to slip back into them, I mean the album ends on "There is a seed inside of me" at the end of what is lyrically one of the most foreboding and sinister NIN songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. Instead it was, "Hey look, it's free! Clearly that's all this album has to say."
It just seems that a lot of media nowadays is more focused on what makes an interesting narrative about that artist from a personal viewpoint rather than considering the actual content of the art being reviewed. It's very dismissive to write HM off as the "happy" album, it's very dismissive to write off The Slip as simply an experiment. For whatever reason it feels like the media perception of NIN is far less focused on the actual music being released and shows being played and instead the personal life of Trent Reznor, and yet they ignore how much his life does fit with what he's making. It's like people seem to sell this idea that once you have children and you're married, that's it, no more problems, everything is fine, any mental illness or addiction you suffer from is magically cured, and that's just ludicrous. Those things may help, but I'm sure they can make things harder, too, and a song like I Would For You seems to speak to that vibrantly. "If I could be somebody else, well, I think I would for you" are not words someone totally secure and happy would be singing, but rather than actually pay any attention to the lyrics on Hesitation Marks I saw a ton of reviews and fans both write them all off as "typical NIN," maybe not considering that there's a reason for that.
I was nobody. Nothing.
ahhh, another great essay from @kleiner352 .
start a blog. i'll read it.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Throw in various lyrics from Meet Your Master and maybe the ARG was just an elaborate way of Trent coming out?
Active Member
Maybe Bleedthrough, with its discussion of parallel universes, would've revealed that Trent Reznor now is actually an alternate reality Trent who is secretly gay, and he's been trying to come to terms with it for years since. It was scrapped because he realized what that might do to his image as the guy who wrote the Fuck You Like an Animal song so he did the ARG to layer it with as many clues as possible, the most obvious being ignored: Trent Reznor has become an Alternate Reality Gay. ARG.
I'm so sorry for this
Active Member
agree with everything you say, except the idea that its journalists "these days" -- it's always been journalism and always will be.
Now I'm 0000
And in the first intro paragraph it says, "Today, Reznor's dark days of alcohol and drug abuse are behind him — and he finds himself, at 48, with a wife and two young kids."
I was nobody. Nothing.
i don't know if it's the same interview, but there's a part where the lady plays part of HLAH and says "bow down before the one you serve...you're going to get what you deserve. What did you mean by that?" And she says it all pensively and grandly (idk how to describe it, you'd just have to hear it.)And in the first intro paragraph it says, "Today, Reznor's dark days of alcohol and drug abuse are behind him — and he finds himself, at 48, with a wife and two young kids."
and trent's like "are you asking me what i was thinking at a particular moment, like, twenty years ago?"
and he gets kind of offended, tells her he doesn't know the answer to that question. it's great.
most nin fans would probably get a kick out of listening to that interview, btw
edit: here's a little controversy. Trent's speaking voice these days gets on my nerves just the tiniest bit.
Stubby Member
MM's album release dates have always been very close to NIN's.
Such as PoAAF coming out the same year as TDS, The Triptych being sandwiched between the Fragile, etc.
But I feel that TPE is the first MM album to surpass a NIN release. HM just sounded... sort of weak. Of course this is all subjected, but I was disappointed pun not intended by the minimal and repetitive sound of HM.
Down, but not out.
Agreed. I might even go out on a limb to say that it would be a total honor for him, and an honor for me to see him having a column like The Meathead Perspective, but on serious articles, reviews, observations, reports and dissections about Nine Inch Nails as a whole, especially as a long time follower of The NIN Hotline and Echoing the Sound. I just thought of throwing it out there.
@Leviathant - What do you think? kleiner352 would seem to make a great Nine Inch Nails blog for The NIN Hotline. (Not that I'm assuming that it'll happen as soon as possible, should it be even considered, and I'm sure it'll take some time and planning for even getting in the zone for an official blog for The NIN Hotline, but he'd seem to fit into that role perfectly should that opportunity become feasible.)
@kleiner352 - Yes, I'm actually that impressed. Even if you were just a fan since the Hesitation Marks era, you certainly have the old school NIN fan spirit.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 01-22-2015 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Sorry for the drift, but elevenism really made an excellent point. ^_^
Active Member
How do feel about Trents affinity to carefully creating his own narrative each time a new album gets released? :
HM is the TDS anniversary album.
The Slip is the quickly thrown together electronic garage album for him to experiment with business models.
Year Zero is the political record.
With Teeth is the I'm done with drugs record.
etc.
Throbbing Member
Those are all very rough, somewhat skewed summaries of how Trent described each album. Even if those descriptions weren't the ones used by the media, they follow the same sort of formula of finding a catchy snippet of information to use as a headline/quote. There's a difference between saying "this album is political" (meaning that politics is one aspect of the album) and "this is the political album".
Active Member
I understand but disagree with feeling disappointed by HM. I don't understand and disagree with saying HM is minimal and repetitive but preferring TPE (by implication saying its not)
grrr. woof.
rob's face pisses me off. the way people worship that douche around here is so annoying.
fuck that guy.
Active Member
I'd argue there's a difference between what's more or less a thesis statement for an album, and journalists reducing an entire album to a three-sentence biography of Trent Reznor at any given time. Obviously with anything any artist makes, there's some sort of main point/goal in mind when they make it. But I'd totally argue on the anniversary album statement, as Trent said a lot of it was him looking back on that era of his life, and where he is now, and seeing how different he is and yet how he still can connect to that guy he once was, and that's a lot deeper than a "tribute album" to my ears.
Year Zero is a concept album, it has an entire wealth of story and fiction behind it, The Warning has its own comic book basically, it's more sophisticated than simply "the political album."
Overall there's nothing wrong with stating an album's overall focus, but my irritation lies with reviews and journalists that neglect to look at the full product and just latch on to these single statements, or simply say "Well Trent Reznor's life is now this so that means the album is too."
Also, Trent himself has said that every album cycle he ends up having a sort of pre-recorded mental list of answers to the same typical questions. I'd blame his lack of in-depth discussion on a lot of recent albums on a lack of in-depth questions from interviewers. Even in The Fragile era there was this fantastic Japanese interview that asked him heavily about different songs, different actual aspects of the album, brought up the album credits even, and I can't say there's a whole lot of interviews being produced in that vein nowadays.
Active Member
valid point.
is there an english version of said interview somewhere?
Active Member
can you direct me to this Fragile-era interview?
Active Member
Yep! Here's part 1, part 2 is in the related videos ( @screwdriver as well)
Active Member
ah yes I remember this one -- thanks!!!
Bite me
The NPR interview that seems to be the focus of this discussion begins with the focus on a FAN-MADE video about the song "Everything" and how the fans are reacting perhaps negatively on forums to the positive upbeat nature of that song. The interviewer focuses on asking the writer of the song how he feels about his fans' reaction.
NPR isn't a music-blog or a music magazine. It's Public Radio. Its audience isn't going to understand intricate details about music that anybody else would care about, e.g. is HM a response or a follow-up to The Downward Spiral (because that would require an explanation or knowledge of TDS and each airtime piece has a certain number of minutes).
The interviewer goes on to ask these questions:
There's a sort of a creaky, percussive sound on the song "Find My Way." What is that? (this is a question that might have wide appeal to NPR listeners).
I just love that sound so much. What were you trying to get out of it? (ditto)
A few years ago, back in 2009, you wrote on your website that it was time to let Nine Inch Nails disappear for a while and you were done touring under that name. You worked on other projects, but now you're back — doing these big arena shows, huge festivals, Lollapalooza. What's it like feeding off of those crowds again after having been away for a stretch of time?
When you're onstage now and you're doing old Nine Inch Nails songs from the dark days, songs full of hurt and pain and anger, how do you pull that off? Does it feel very different from where you are now, in that it's painful in a visceral way — like peeling off a scab?
You were talking before about the through-line in some of the new media coverage — the happily married guy with the two kids, and how that can be sort of misleading. What do you think is the biggest misunderstanding about you?
And Reznor says:
"That's a good question. "
Remember, one has to remember the AUDIENCE when considering the interview, or even considering a review in a publication.
If I posted an academic literary analysis of Elizabeth from the Feminist Perspective in Austen's "Pride and Prejudice," here, 98% of you would be falling asleep after the 2nd page. Because you're not the intended audience.
Last edited by allegro; 01-23-2015 at 06:01 PM.
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@allegro you make a really great point, and I just want to clarify I wasn't specifically citing any one single publication or interview, I was simply speaking in the general sense. I do think the very casual nature of consuming music and the culture in which a lot of people know a few things about a lot of subjects has led to things being less in-depth.
Bite me
Well, on the other hand, maybe Reznor's music has become less in-depth. There does come a point in an artist's career, particularly in rock and its sub-genres, where artists run out of steam and re-visit prior albums and make failed experiments and just generally have blocks to anything that even vaguely matches the level of creativity they had with the magnum opus (or two) they had in their respective careers. Rock is a young man/woman's game, like it or not. I remember reading Sting's comment, long ago, saying that songwriting's a HELL of a lot easier if you're in a lot of pain and if you're not in any pain you need to go find some, heh. Sting went through a REALLY long period of writer's block and finally ended it with his Broadway play, "The Last Ship," which ended up flopping, unfortunately. See this from Dave Grohl. Reznor seems to be discovering this, himself. He doesn't seem to feel challenged by it, anymore. He seems to be more challenged by this film score thing. At some point, writing rock songs isn't as "genuine" coming from people older than a certain age. You can perform those songs (like Ozzy) but writing them is another story; you run out of juice. There's not a lot for a journalist to write about or discuss because there's just not a lot there. Sure YOU can because you're a rabid fan but that's not going to be interesting to the vast majority of the rest of the world that isn't a rabid fan, sorry.
Look at this interview.
So, Reznor hired the Arcade Fire producer? REALLY? That, in itself, shocked the living shit out of me. Like, WHY???? Desperation??Who was the producer, and what was the difference in approach?
It was Markus Dravs, who has worked with Arcade Fire quite a bit. He’s a song-based guy that’s less a studio rat, engineer-type like we are. I don’t want to throw him under the bus. I’m not here to talk shit about him. But there was a lot of “Let’s get an ensemble of people to play this thing,” and “We need an arranger to do that.” It didn’t feel like it was leading anywhere. I respect the guy and it didn’t end in a fistfight or anything. He was a means to an end to make us realize that our instincts about the record were the right way to go. The record that was finished, I’m very proud of. It felt like a reinvention to me.
Okay, so it failed, and the failure felt like reinvention, even though he admits that he fell back into doing the same instinctive stuff they always do and didn't push the envelope and did what was comfortable, and hardly any journalists are asking him about the lyrics or what any of it means or if it's related to TDS because Reznor, himself, has set himself up with this Apple stuff, and film score stuff, and touring stuff, and all this other stuff, and if nobody asks him about the meaning of the album, it's a lot his own fault.
You DO realize that NIN's own publicists can give these interviewers kind of "cheat sheets" of questions to ask and not to ask, right?
I agree with you that people don't ingest music the way we used to; "we" not even meaning YOU, since you weren't even alive during the time when the only thing that existed was vinyl and maybe shitty 8-tracks and the ALBUM ruled and radio stations played entire albums and people sat down on the shag carpet and listened to entire albums, front-to-back, uninterrupted, and the only "multitasking" we did was look at the album's liner notes. But, trust me, journalism was the same, then, too. Not every rag was doing a song-by-song in-depth analysis of the latest fucking Cowsills album.
But, if you want an example, Here is a review of Christine McVie's eponymous solo album from Creem Magazine, May, 1984.
Last edited by allegro; 01-23-2015 at 10:09 PM.
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