Active Member
Yeah, that's kind of a stretch. No one knew what he looked like or what his race was after the subway murders, and he was so decked out in makeup no one could tell what he really looked at one he was on the Murray Franklin show. The writer is intelligent, but trying a little too hard here.Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian
Last edited by GulDukat; 10-11-2019 at 05:51 AM.
Active Member
Aaaand here we go. Will be seeing it again on Monday. Let's see how it flows a second time around.
Active Member
BADGERS
Despite being sortof a great test of an actor, the Joker is already a bit annoying as an icon to me... But I probably would have seen this movie if there weren't multiple stupid conversations taking place around it.
House Always Wins
And you give a shit about it because? If you wanna see it, see it.
Active Member
I wonder if the new Halloween film is gonna get controversy?
Throbbing Member
Good film. Not the transformative cinematic experience some praisers claim, in my opinion. Phoenix is amazing of course, and the cinematography is beautiful(ly bleak). An interesting take on the character, though I agree that it is difficult to visualise this Joker as a mastermind opponent, at least up to the point the movie ends. I guess maybe he could transform into one if backed by a proper story that shows him gaining more control over his psyche (there was a glimpse of that towards the end). Not that I think it should, I'm perfectly happy with this film being a one-off. But yeah, more films like these please, less theme park attractions.
Oh and man, that whole incel angle or whatever so much fuss was made about...at no point in the film are Joker's actions glorified, nor is Arthur's transformation anything else than a terrible thing to behold. Will some people identify with the character? Probably yes, but that will always happen no matter how vile a character. This movie does not make it easy to sympathise with Joker/Arthur. Sure, you feel for the guy and what he goes through, but when he starts going dangerous, it's disconcerting.
Last edited by Alexandros; 10-12-2019 at 04:45 AM.
House Always Wins
I love John Wick but that guy is a walking genocide. Not a fucking peep for Parabellum earlier this year for the media. The film series is basically "gun violence porn" if you will.
Active Member
I found this review to be pretty spot on
Throbbing Member
Husband and I saw it last night and had like a two-hour conversation about it afterward. I loved it, his portrayal of Joker made me SO uncomfortable in a way that I was unprepared for and I can't really explain it without comparing this Joker to Ledger's Joker.
Yes, both are darker/grittier portrayals of Joker. But Heath's Joker has a sort of dark charisma to him, a very typical anti-hero portrayal (but very well-acted obviously) that the shitty side of you sort of roots for because it's funny to do so. Joaquin's Joker made me both pity him and enraged at him simultaneously. I have worked in social services off and on my entire adult life, and I have met people just like Joaquin's Joker. It was chilling because it was very real to me. I could say a lot about that but I don't want to spoil the movie for people who are planning on watching it.
Also, the cinematography was gorgeous. I have a few very minor complaints about the structure of the movie (I don't know enough about film to articulate what I mean anyway), but those are overshadowed by Joaquin's performance and the way the movie looked.
I do understand the concern some people had about the idolization of Joker among shitty people, but that ship has long sailed with or without this movie.
House Always Wins
Seen it tonight and really, really loved it. Very radically different portrayal and a complete reimagining to the Wayne family and Gotham crime overall. Most show Thomas Wayne as a righteous man with a beacon of hope to him, they did in this movie but exposed a different type of fraud to the character about his lack of concern or caring for some of the underclass. I enjoyed the gritty take on Gotham's underbelly from a different perspective. I know this is a one off but I really want to see how this movie universe's Batman would battle with this Joker portrayal.
Spoiler: The Joker in the film was a shattered man and came off erratic. However, the character fully changed from Arthur Fleck to Joker entirely the moment he killed his mother. The entire visit from his former co-workers onwards to the brilliant climax on Murray's Talk Show was completely the Joker we know from comic lore.
Last edited by Space Suicide; 10-12-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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Active Member
The Gary Glitter track may be removed:
https://nypost.com/2019/10/14/joker-...ture-releases/
tempus est umbra in mente
this "Oh no the INCELS are coming!!!!!" hype is the best useful nonsense since The Exorcist was boycotted by the Vatican.
House Always Wins
I get the point of that song being in that scene but it felt so radically different than anything else on the soundtrack that it stands out like a sore thumb.
Active Member
https://www.nme.com/news/film/gary-g...rm-2557310/amp
Glitter isn't getting money cause he sold the rights to the song years ago.
Last edited by Frozen Beach; 10-15-2019 at 11:26 AM.
xScott
Just saw it and it was a stunning film, anyone who says it's a dangerous film is just plain wrong.
Active Member
I thought it felt "dangerous" in the way that The Downward Spiral & Antichrist Superstar did in the '90s. That is to say, "dangerous" in a good way, not "safe" like your standard big studio blockbuster movie. Even though the violence was way more sparse in Joker than a movie like Deadpool, the violence was treated very seriously and looked very realistic (that Randall scene... OMG), which made it much more effective and shocking than many other movies in the superhero/comic book movie genre. The Joker himself only actually murdered six people onscreen, with a strongly suggested seventh off-screen at the end (bloody footprints). My friends and I debated after the movie about whether or not he killed Sophie (and possibly her young daughter). I'm of the opinion that he did not because (like Gary, the little person who he spared after killing Randall) he liked her and she wasn't ever mean to him. Then again, this is the Joker, so anything's possible, but this is also a film about his transition from regular guy with a mental illness and history of physical abuse into the insanely sinister super villain we all know. It was way more intense and powerful than I had anticipated. I'm looking forward to seeing it again when it comes out on video (I rarely see movies more than once in theaters).
Last edited by sonic_discord; 10-15-2019 at 10:51 PM.
Active Member
I don't know how the audience in the US or the UK clicks, but on both viewings I found it incredibly annyoing that people were laughing at Arthur's laughing condition. For some it might have been a reflex as one tends to laugh as well as soon as somebody is laughing, but others... gave me the impression that they as well can't channel their emotions correctly and just had to laugh to overcome their uneasyness.
While I didn't make out any specific details on my second viewing I liked the movie the same the second time around. Only the music felt a little more off at times than it did the first time. Yet the soundtrack absolutely nails the scene in some parts (Arthur getting yelled at by Hoyt, but starts smiling manically e.g.).
My only gripe that still remains is the Murray scene, which in my books could have been handled a little better or maybe "cooler". But then again, that might have been intentional so not to make the Joker too cool of a villain. But something along the lines of "Now it's me who delivers the punchlines in this city" refering to Murrays question about a punchline missing, would have fit well imho.
A great movie nevertheless. Not a masterpiece in my books, but a damn good movie with an interesting spin and a glorious actor.
Flaccid Member
I noticed the same thing, dlb. I figure people don't just laugh when they find something funny. They sometimes laugh when they can't express themselves more appropriately.
Behold the morning star
I have seen it twice ( wanting to go more, but I’m not 23 anymore , and I want to wait for the 4k), only times my theater got a laugh was with Arthur and Gary in Arthur’s apartment.
Active Member
It was good. I liked it.
It was more of a spotlight on mental illness rather than anything else.
I agree with everyone who says it didn't need to be a movie about the joker set in the batman world.
My ex-girlfriend was a social worker, and she'd tell me stories of kids growing up in terrible places and being failed by the system, and this was that put to film. It was hard to watch, but also important.
Stubby Member
I didn’t like this movie at all. Joaquin Phoenix was great as always, but this was the most unnecessary, pretentious, and poorly written movie I’ve seen in a long time. The twists are painfully obvious. The “ambiguous” ending is not ambiguous at all considering the pivotal moment that happens after the fridge scene. The fact that Arthur stops caring about whether what his mother and TW told him is presented in the most unsubtle manner imaginable.
No subtlety whatsoever. The final act takes way too long to get to. The only good thing about this movie is the fact that Phoenix didn’t try to impersonate Heath Ledger’s voice like Jared Leto and Cameron Monaghan did.
Throbbing Member
It must be exhausting to be so caught up in thinking you're smarter than a film that you completely miss the point of it.
Throbbing Member
This was a really good movie which I am keep thinking about, it made a huge impact upon me, like others have mentioned it had an amazing camera work and set-design, acting was on-point. I loved it honestly, every piece of it and I can't wait for it to come out digitally so I can watch it non-stop.
Throbbing Member
I laughed so hard, I want to see this as an actual movie.
Active Member
Don't know if this needs a spoiler warning still, but what's everyone's take on the fridge scene? What does it mean to you? I really liked the camera work in this scene, yet I thought something very grim is about to happen. Nicely done!
Stubby Member
It seemed like a replacement for Ace Chemicals. They couldn't throw him in a vat of chemicals, so they had to show the death of Arthur and the emergence of Joker somehow. Arthur got in, and from that point on we only see Joker. We never see Arthur get out. When he's rehearsing his knock-knock joke and puts the gun to his own head, but then doesn't shoot himself, it's because Arthur is already gone. When he tells his "jokes" on the show and the audience gasps instead of cheering, it's not a delusion.
Or maybe it was just so his neighbor wouldn't hear him laughing. Or maybe it was because he used to get tied to a radiator and a fridge is the opposite of that. Or maybe it was a nod to Joe Chill. Or maybe it was some sort of coping mechanism that he uses all the time. It doesn't really matter. It could symbolize so many things that it's pointless trying to figure out what they were actually going for. This movie was heavily influenced by the Killing Joke, so it's a "multiple choice" situation.
Active Member
Yeah good thinking on that Ace Chemicals parallels. I was rather surprised that this scene became so pivotal as it was released as a TV spot without any context, making it seem rather comical. But on both viewings the audience was dead silent and rather serious when Arthur cleared the fridge and finally got in.
Active Member
"Wanna know how I got these scars?"
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