Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[Deepvoid]

Basically, you're saying that the government needs to address mental illness and improve treatments but mentally ill people still have the right to have guns because that's what the Constitution says.
In other words, it doesn't really matter whether you address mental illness or not. That's just a bullshit excuse to divert the focus away from guns.

[DigitalChaos]

Basically, you're saying that the government needs to address mental illness and improve treatments

There are plenty of ways to improve the situation. Why the fuck is "the government" ALWAYS the instant go-to for people with knee-jerk protectionism viewpoints?

but mentally ill people still have the right to have guns because that's what the Constitution says.

No. I said that you probably can't come up with a good way to implement this, especially an implementation that doesn't result in a ton of negative consequences. But if you have some magical way, go ahead and let the world know.

[Jinsai]

The common cause in spree killing is not guns, it's not video games, but it IS mental health. Why you continue to focus on such a statistically small segment of killing makes me curious, but there you have it.

And what facilitates the mentally unstable person in embarking upon a successful killing spree? It is for this INCREDIBLY obvious reason that equating something as fucking random as a video game system to the issue is a ludicrous comparison.

I don't know why it needs to be spelled out, but someone claiming a form of media has a negative impact upon unstable people, encouraging them to go on a killing spree is speculative association and correlation. Identifying the murder weapon, the effectiveness of it, and the ease of access to it is direct correlation.

False equivalency with the obvious intent to distract from a blatantly relevant issue with a complete non sequitur argument... but go ahead, start trying to make this part of your brilliant new defense. Whatever though, we're in a thread talking about GUNS, and GUN LAWS, and you guys are equating their danger and use in facilitating mass murders as being on par with video games. Fucking brilliant.

There are plenty of ways to improve the situation. Why the fuck is "the government" ALWAYS the instant go-to for people with knee-jerk protectionism viewpoints?

Because I'm not a paranoid libertarian with a crippling distrust of the efficacy of government.

[DigitalChaos]

Identifying the murder weapon, the effectiveness of it, and the ease of access to it is direct correlation.

So you'll be advocating this for all the weapons used in spree shootings, right? Knives, cars, etc...

Spoiler: nope. that would require logical consistency

[DigitalChaos]

This video is getting a lot of panties in a twist, but it brings up an idea the gun-control extremists refuse to talk about... or when they do talk about it they go full hyperbole. That idea is to simply provide basic gun safety in schools, much like sex-ed and drivers-ed. That would do a lot to reduce the amount of gun accidents that happen. The video floats quite a bit more than this for the sake of being provocative, but that's because of the usual reactions that I just mentioned. But hey, now everyone is talking about it! No coincidence that most of them aren't linking to the actual video.


NRA Hipster: Give All Kids a Gun
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ids-a-gun.html

[Jinsai]

So you'll be advocating this for all the weapons used in spree shootings, right? Knives, cars, etc...

First video game systems, now cars. You're the king of distracting from the fucking point.

Some knives are illegal, you ridiculous muppet. And do I need to repeat my stance on "banning guns" for you again? I'd ask how effective knives are in "spree shootings" but why bother?

[DigitalChaos]

First video game systems, now cars. You're the king of distracting from the fucking point.

Some knives are illegal, you ridiculous muppet. And do I need to repeat my stance on "banning guns" for you again? I'd ask how effective knives are in "spree shootings" but why bother?

I absolutely love the mental gymnastics (mostly just relying on semantics) that you use to pigeonhole your argument. You absolutely refuse to contemplate anything that extends outside of your predefined comfort bubble. Doing so would require you to face the real-world implications and failures of your views. And THAT is the classic failure of gun control proposals almost every time. Dream something up in a vacuum, then either A: cry that enough people won't agree with your half-baked legislation or B: come back again in a year with more half-baked proposals because the last ones didn't work or actually created more problems.



It's also this type of mentality that can't use context to see an obvious error in my post where "spree shooting" was supposed to be "spree killing" since that's exactly what you were talking about in the post I was quoting. But hey, that vacuum!

[DigitalChaos]

Speaking of that.... You gotta love Bloomber's latest twitter post
"Safely landed at Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv - here to show support for Israel's right to defend itself."

[DigitalChaos]

Oh and, those restrictive gunlaws just got bypassed again. This time in Massachusetts, Marlyand, and New Jersey.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/07/24...d-jersey-laws/

ILLEGAL:


LEGAL:

[Jinsai]

I absolutely love the mental gymnastics (mostly just relying on semantics)

You're the one who got all worked up about the use of the word "culprit."

You absolutely refuse to contemplate anything that extends outside of your predefined comfort bubble.

One more time... I DO NOT SUPPORT BLANKET BANS ON ALL GUNS. Do you even read what people are saying to you?

[DigitalChaos]

You absolutely refuse to contemplate anything that extends outside of your predefined comfort bubble.

One more time... I DO NOT SUPPORT BLANKET BANS ON ALL GUNS. Do you even read what people are saying to you?

So? That doesn't change the fact that you refuse to extrapolate your views into other objects that were used to kill in spree killings (cars, knives, etc). Why not put background checks and registries on those? Why not limit who can by them to the 75% of the population that doesn't have a mental health issue?

[Jinsai]

So? That doesn't change the fact that you refuse to extrapolate your views into other objects that were used to kill in spree killings (cars, knives, etc). Why not put background checks and registries on those? Why not limit who can by them to the 75% of the population that doesn't have a mental health issue?

Because this is a thread about guns. We're talking about guns. You don't seem to understand this for some reason, but video game consoles aren't guns, and neither are cars.

But since you won't stop making inappropriate comparisons, driving a car is a privilege, not a constitutionally protected right. There are many conditions which immediately disqualify you from ownership. If you're blind or have severe narcolepsy, you cannot drive a car. There are also many places you cannot drive your car. You can mod your car to make it illegal to drive on a street. There are kinds of cars which you cannot drive on a freeway.

These same restrictions don't apply to gun ownership, because they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. We don't need to come up with a solution that solves car-related violence at the same time as gun ownership, because... THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

[DigitalChaos]

Because this is a thread about guns. We're talking about guns. You don't seem to understand this for some reason, but video game consoles aren't guns, and neither are cars.

But since you won't stop making inappropriate comparisons, driving a car is a privilege, not a constitutionally protected right. There are many conditions which immediately disqualify you from ownership. If you're blind or have severe narcolepsy, you cannot drive a car. There are also many places you cannot drive your car. You can mod your car to make it illegal to drive on a street. There are kinds of cars which you cannot drive on a freeway.

These same restrictions don't apply to gun ownership, because they're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. We don't need to come up with a solution that solves car-related violence at the same time as gun ownership, because... THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

So, you are ok restricting access (based on mental health) to a constitutionally protected right, but you have no interest in applying the same restriction to the privileges? Interesting... Especially being that guns, knives, and cars are all used in spree killings (you know, the thing you want to stop) regardless of their status as a right or privilege.

[Jinsai]

So, you are ok restricting access (based on mental health) to a constitutionally protected right, but you have no interest in applying the same restriction to the privileges? Interesting... Especially being that guns, knives, and cars are all used in spree killings (you know, the thing you want to stop) regardless of their status as a right or privilege.

Where did I say that I had "no problem restricting access to privileges?" Oh yeah, I didn't. No, I don't think blind people should be allowed to drive.

Maybe you'd be able to follow what people are saying if you didn't keep steering the conversation to talk about shit that's completely unrelated to what we're talking about.

[DigitalChaos]

Where did I say that I had "no problem restricting access to privileges?" Oh yeah, I didn't. No, I don't think blind people should be allowed to drive.

Well, then why isn't that a part of the proposal? These proposals that come out every time a spree killing occurs certainly don't contain it. Hell, that UCSB kid shot, stabbed, and ran over people. The only thing that gets even talked about, in terms of legislation, is gun control. Why is the focus ONLY on limiting gun access to those with mental issues?

It sure would go a long way to prove you are actually interested in solving the spree killings instead of just using it as an excuse to limit a constitutional right.

[Jinsai]

Well, then why isn't that a part of the proposal? These proposals that come out every time a spree killing occurs certainly don't contain it. Hell, that UCSB kid shot, stabbed, and ran over people. The only thing that gets even talked about, in terms of legislation, is gun control. Why is the focus ONLY on limiting gun access to those with mental issues?

It sure would go a long way to prove you are actually interested in solving the spree killings instead of just using it as an excuse to limit a constitutional right.

Yeah, what gets me out of bed is the irresistible urge to limit constitutional rights. That's why I give a fuck.

[DigitalChaos]

Yeah, what gets me out of bed is the irresistible urge to limit constitutional rights. That's why I give a fuck.

sarcasm aside, that's exactly what it looks like when a high-profile tragedy is leveraged to push gun control legislation that would have done absolutely nothing to stop that tragedy.

Also, you completely avoided the question... again.

[Jinsai]

sarcasm aside, that's exactly what it looks like when a high-profile tragedy is leveraged to push gun control legislation that would have done absolutely nothing to stop that tragedy.

Also, you completely avoided the question... again.

I've already answered it repeatedly.

I don't think we should lump in laws reforming access to cars in with gun laws, because they're two completely different things. I don't know how I can be any more clear about this.

[Satyr]

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/article/5925176

Armed doctor saves the day.

[Jinsai]

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/article/5925176

Armed doctor saves the day.

yes... by shooting a mentally deranged person who had a gun. Doesn't really help that before he shot his caseworker in the face, he was ranting about gun bans and how they're going to take the guns away.

[Satyr]

yes... by shooting a mentally deranged person who had a gun. Doesn't really help that before he shot his caseworker in the face, he was ranting about gun bans and how they're going to take the guns away.

Still the doctor being armed directly resulted in him not getting murdered and probably other people not getting murdered.

I agree that mental health is a huge problem.....I just don't see any realistic fix for it.

[Jinsai]

Still the doctor being armed directly resulted in him not getting murdered and probably other people not getting murdered.

Taking a gun to work if you're working in a psych ward or hospital for the mentally insane should pretty much be a pre-requisite for the job.

I agree that mental health is a huge problem.....I just don't see any realistic fix for it.

There's a lot of things we could do to begin addressing the problem more directly, but as long as there is such violent opposition to any new law that involves guns, we're not going to get anywhere.

[DigitalChaos]

I've already answered it repeatedly.

I don't think we should lump in laws reforming access to cars in with gun laws, because they're two completely different things. I don't know how I can be any more clear about this.

lamest excuse ever

If you want to fix a problem (killing sprees), you bring a complete solution to the table. It can be in separate parts. Hell, the parts that don't include guns are NEVER brought to the table. If you can't do that, just admit you have this hoplophobic fixation on guns and only guns and THAT is the true reason behind your actions.

[DigitalChaos]

[Jinsai]

lamest excuse ever

If you want to fix a problem (killing sprees), you bring a complete solution to the table. It can be in separate parts. Hell, the parts that don't include guns are NEVER brought to the table. If you can't do that, just admit you have this hoplophobic fixation on guns and only guns and THAT is the true reason behind your actions.

Hoplophobic? Jeeeeeesus... Considering that this is coming from the guy who once repeatedly said "Sharif" instead of "Sheriff," maybe you shouldn't try to use big words.

No, I don't endorse grouping in Magic the Gathering, Video Games, and Cars with gun control. I know, totally crazy...

Also, ONE MORE FUCKING TIME BECAUSE YOU DON'T LISTEN, I'm not "hoplophobic." I think people should be allowed to own guns. I'm not hippopotomonstrosequipedaliophobic, but I think your bullshit here sucks, and I don't know how many times I can say it. I DO NOT THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD (or is about to) TAKE TEH GUNS AWAY. I can make the size of my all-caps bigger if that helps you fucking read it.

[DigitalChaos]

Hoplophobic? Jeeeeeesus... Considering that this is coming from the guy who once repeatedly said "Sharif" instead of "Sheriff," maybe you shouldn't try to use big words.

the fuck are you talking about?






and yes, hoplophobic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

No, I don't endorse grouping in Magic the Gathering, Video Games, and Cars with gun control. I know, totally crazy...

Also, ONE MORE FUCKING TIME BECAUSE YOU DON'T LISTEN, I'm not "hoplophobic." I think people should be allowed to own guns. I'm not hippopotomonstrosequipedaliophobic, but I think your bullshit here sucks, and I don't know how many times I can say it. I DO NOT THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD (or is about to) TAKE TEH GUNS AWAY. I can make the size of my all-caps bigger if that helps you fucking read it.

The only way your logic is consistent is if you are fixated on guns and making excuses for it. If you had goals along the lines of "stopping spree killings" or other such things, you wouldn't ignore every other factor BUT guns. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself. A non sequitur is a non sequitur no matter how many times you repeat it.

I understand that media sources like Fox News believe that repetition creates reality, but.... no. It's like the idiot republicans who claim to believe in the free market whenever taxation topics come up but then forget all about then when corporations want special privileges. They only like the free market when it suits their needs. You only like protecting people from dangerous weapons/devices if it involves gun control.

[Jinsai]

and yes, hoplophobic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

Jesus tap dancing ballerina christ...

I know what the word means, only because I know people like you, who are just as much fun as you.

in case you misunderstood, you guys aren't fun. You're boring.

So yeah, I know what Hoplophobia is. It's not real, in a sense where we'd really allow new words to be interjected into general discourse, but thanks for the annoying moment of sesquipedalian dumbfuckery. I just got ironic, then doubled back upon myself. You'll get it after you google the word "sesquipedalian."

[DigitalChaos]

Speaking of logical inconsistency in gun control...
The Executive Director of Bloomberg's "Everytown For Gun Safety" (formerly Mayors Against Illegal Guns) is leaving. He gave a very interesting exit interview.

"virtually none of the solutions gun-control groups are pushing would have prevented any of the massacres that capture public attention"

"Is it a messaging problem when a mass shooting happens and nothing that we have to offer would have stopped that mass shooting? Sure it’s a challenge in this issue."

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...tings-n1852230


EL OH FUCKING EL

That's exactly what I have been saying over and over.

[Jinsai]

EL OH FUCKING EL

For posterity's sake.

is this "post internet" speech?

[Jinsai]

wait.. are you denying that you did that? The "sharif" thing? I pointed it out to you... Fuck... this was on this board.

Are you sure you didn't edit your post?