Likes: 
Faceplams: https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-08-30/our-evolving-understanding-of-the-meaning-of-gender
Available on iTunes too.
Well worth the hour of listening.
Active Member
https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-08-30/our-evolving-understanding-of-the-meaning-of-gender
Available on iTunes too.
Well worth the hour of listening.
Active Member
Oooh. I'm at work and I could use something to listen to. Thank you!
Edit: Hey, Jenny Boylan! I love her.
Last edited by theruiner; 08-31-2016 at 01:32 PM.
Administrator
Hi everyone. Long time listener, first time caller.Everyone in here is brave, courageous, and awesome.
I've recently become aware that I'm the father of a transgender child. He's come out as identifying as a boy and I don't believe I've ever seen him happier than he is day to day right now. We ventured to NYC for a friend's wedding roughly a week after he'd come out. I introduced him by his new name (despite the fact that he hadn't yet acquired a binder. he's 13 and developed early). Everyone was awesome, it was great.
But it is not without it's struggles. 13 years of reinforcement of names and pronouns is hard to overcome, but I think I've only slipped up a few times. I think the hardest part is finding the balance between being firm about the names and pronouns others use while not turning situations into embarrassing situations for him. I do my best to execute judgment on these situations, but I worry that sometimes I make the wrong call.
We've connected with GLYS (Gay and Lesbian Youth Services) and they've been really great and helpful. They've got a monthly group for parents and kids that seems good so far, but I'd like to engage as much support as I can. I'm hoping this is an appropriate place for that.
Active Member
Holy crap, you are awesome! I'm always so happy to hear about accepting parents. I wish I could have transitioned when I was 13.
I can't really think of any advice or anything right now, but please feel free to reach out with any questions. This place is a great resource.
24.24.1.1397
Yeah, feel free to bug us with any questions, also you can bug me on FB anytime as well. Especially now that I'm back in ~kinda~ the area.
But also make sure to ask him things. How would he like you to approach this or respond to that, etc. It's something that's often so different between people that what we say might not necessarily be how he feels about it.
Also, name/pronoun slip-ups will happen, especially at first. So don't be too hard on yourself.
Active Member
Hi. Thank you for not being shitty. Seriously, just thank you for being an open, caring, and supportive father. Moar Daves in the world please.Originally Posted by ItsJustDave
she/her/hers
happy national coming out day everyone!
in case you don't know, i'm queer, genderqueer/trans (though i'm not currently doing anything about it, and i'm ok with that for the moment), and i've always been pretty open about these things, because i don't see them as something to hide or be ashamed of. however, there are people that feel they are, which makes people in the queer community feel unsafe and unwelcome in the world, and that makes me sad.
i hope that as the world moves forward, there begins to be more acceptance and less expectation of people having to come out, because there will be less assumption about heterosexuality being the default.
if you ever need someone to talk to about any of these sorts of things, my ears (and arms) are open. <3
Administrator
Thanks, but how fucked up is it that this is not just the norm? I mean... there's nothing exceptional about being a loving parent to your children. To say that I'm somehow exceeding expectations just gives so many fuckwits a free pass to be less than they ought to be.
Anyways, I think I'm about 5 minutes late here, but happy coming out day!
I'm pleased to say that we recently overcame a major hurdle at my son's school. They make heavy use of technology, more specifically, Google Classroom. This allows them to interact with one another on classwork (commenting on each other's writing, etc.). Up until recently, he was unable to participate as they were having technical issues getting his name into the system properly (complicated data synchronization between disparate systems issues). They finally got these issues resolved and it was such a relief. The school was suggesting that the only way they might be able to resolve it would be a legal name change. Not that we're opposed to the idea, but it's > $200 in court fees, plus what is no doubt a prolonged period of waiting to actually go to court.
Has anyone here been through a legal name change? If so, how much of a PITA was it?
Bite me
I've never been through it but I'm in law and we've represented clients who've done it. Each county and state has different nuances but they're basically the same procedures: File a petition for a name change, you have to publish it (usually in something like the local Law Bulletin), and then there is a hearing but it's only to explain why you want the name change, no big deal.
See this publication.
See this.
See this.
See this.
If you need more help, you can probably get a local advocacy service to walk you through it.
It looks really daunting but it's not really that hard.
Honestly, your son will end up having to do it eventually, anyway, so you might as well get it over with. Change the gender marker on his birth certificate, too.
Last edited by allegro; 10-12-2016 at 12:51 AM.
Active Member
I guess I've made progress.
http://m.imgur.com/PXs7vaW
The eyebrows need some work but I can't do anything drastic until I go full time. Still working on electrolysis, hopefully will be done in about a year. But yeah, apparently I look different according to some of my friends. It feels good to be making progress.
Captain Rustleboots
@ItsJustDave
A friend of mine has a transgender teen daughter who's done a name change and seems to be going through a lot of the things you are right now. If you would like I could try and connect you guys via facebook? I hope that's not overreaching.
Active Member
Yes, you look different. I'm sure it is some features "softening" that I can't put my finger on..... Oh wait, I know what it is. It's a smile!
24.24.1.1397
Yeah, NY state is, at least compared to PA, more expensive and more of a pain because of what has to be done. At least, that's what I've been told by a trans friend who moved to PA (for other reasons) and waited until the move to change her name.
I haven't gone through it yet, but if I do before you guys do, I'll make sure to bug you on FB about it. You're one county north, so that'll be different, but I can at least walk you through the NYS stuff.
Not that he's old enough, but fortunately getting your NYS photo ID (permit/license) gender marker changed is SUPER EASY.
Bite me
In Cook County, IL, the current court filing fee is $319 plus the cost of publishing a notice in a newspaper (usually the Daily Law Bulletin because it is cheaper) for 3 consecutive weeks, which is around $150, and this is all so daunting it's why most people hire an attorney from my office to handle a name change through the Chancery Division. I am talking even adopted kids or people named Lipshitz.
24.24.1.1397
I believe it's between $200-$300 in my county, plus 2 consecutive weeks published in the paper. I am hoping that working AT the paper might lead to a discount when the time comes, though.
And then there's the cost of having government paperwork like birth certificates and social security cards and shit all changed and sent out. But if I could deal with getting on hormones and getting chest surgery done, I can do this. Eventually.
Bored
Speaking of PBS: I caught the end of this documentary Sunday night and I thought it was pretty great so I had to hunt the whole thing, of course:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...wing-up-trans/
Trigger warning though; some families are more accepting than others.
Active Member
So, I was at Target yesterday in girl mode when I had to use the restroom. Even though it was Target ad they are famously super trans friendly I still didn't feel comfortable enough to use the women's restroom. The family bathroom was occupied so I reluctantly went into the men's.
As I'm washing my hands this guy comes in and immediately stops, seems to be alarmed, turns around and walks out. I then start walking out of the bathroom when I see him walking back in. I am 99% sure, based on body language and the fact that I'm pretty certain he saw me that the reason he walked out is he saw me and thought he had walked into the women's bathroom by mistake. Then he went to check the sign before coming back in.
As the realization of what just happened sunk in I got a smile from ear to ear. That has NEVER happened before. I have never passed. Ever. In my life. And even though I do ok in pictures I am never, ever read as female while I'm out. At best people just don't gender me. So that was kind of amazing. I don't know what's happening but I hope this is a sign that things are finally coming together.
Active Member
Well, I did it. I just made the announcement on Facebook, told some family (that are not on Facebook), I did the thing. I am officially going by my new name and female pronouns everywhere but work. Once I go full time it will change at work but otherwise, as much as humanly possible (there will be exceptions that are unavoidable but for the most part) I am going by Sarah now. It feels weird. Not a bad weird but just...yeah. It'll take some time to get adjusted to it. My male name and male pronouns just didn't feel right at all anymore.
Active Member
Hi ya Sarah!! *waves*
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http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high...-ban-competing
I've found that this level of complexity is challenging for some.
Active Member
^^From the article. Re: him being trans
"I respect that completely, and I think the coaches do," Baudhuin said. "All we're saying is she is taking something that gives her an unfair advantage. It's documented. It's universal that it's an unfair advantage."
Oh, the irony.
Active Member
So I doubt that it really matters much at all to anyone on here but it's a very big thing for me to say so I'm just going to go ahead and say it:
I'm trans.
I'm still living in the closet but I can't stop lying to myself in my head all of the time about it and my real name isn't on here so I don't feel like I'm at half the risk in admitting it here than somewhere else. I wish I'd been born in a girl's body and I cannot stand my own skin. Admitting this to anybody even if it's just basically internet strangers that I make NIN jokes with and bitch about bands with a lot is both extremely uncomfortable and yet somehow cathartic for me and just typing this is taking a lot but I'm just tired of pretending and feeling like I'm lying all of the time to everyone all of the time, including myself. I'm struggling a lot with this and this year seems to be the one where I really can't get away from all of these feelings.
I'm thinking of telling my best friend this week, but I don't know when, and I don't want to do it in person so it's gonna be via text, but I know it's going to be a while before I can be open about this with everyone in my life, let alone live in a way that'd be more comfortable for me. Where I live, I constantly have to hear gun-toting rednecks ramble on about how people like me are mentally ill and don't belong, all the while none of them realize that I'm one of those very people they like to openly tear down so frequently. I don't think I'll be able to do anything substantial about this for a long time and especially not until I live somewhere else, but bare minimum I can't keep lying to myself in my own head and acting like I am something that I know so deeply that I am not even though every single time I have to see my reflection I am reminded of how much of a prison my body feels like to me.
I know this is all probably really, really generic and boring and generally stupid so thanks for reading this if you did, I just needed to say this somewhere where somebody else can see who isn't me. This isn't easy for me to do and I've alternated for a good thirty minutes now between staring at the post button and considering deleting the whole thing but I feel like it's too late for me to keep doing things like that when it comes to this like I have for years now. It's stupid that this is such a big deal to me but it is. I feel like none of this should ever matter to me and that I shouldn't care but it does and I do.
Active Member
It is far from boring and generic, and yes, it is a huge step and I'm proud of you for taking it. I am a trans ally and I only have a limited understanding of what you're going through, but based on what my trans friends ALL told me is that coming out, on any level, was critical for their mental health and well being. I hope this "small step" will start you on a road to openly become your true self in a loving and accepting community.
(BTW I live in North Florida so I get some of the gun toting redneck vibe completely, and it is terrifying and I'm sorry)
Active Member
Radio show that replaced Diane Riehm did an hour on this topic today. I'll be downloading the podcast since I didn't get a chance to finish listening.
http://the1a.org/shows/2017-02-27/be...sgender-rights
24.24.1.1397
As weird as this may sound (I have a headache right now and just woke up like an hour ago, so I'm a little off right now) it does matter to people here. Even if we don't know each other in person, or even talk enough on ETS to be close, it matters. I never would have thought that there were a lot of trans people in the NIN community until this topic was posted and we all opened up. I have become good friends with some trans fans who don't live close enough to me that I would even see them at a show (unless I got a lot of money together to cross the country for a show, which sometimes I want to anyways because the west coast gets some cool shit), but we have connected on facebook and mailed things out. One of my very best friends, for over a decade now, I met through a NIN community.
I can't speak for everyone, but I've been there, and coming out online to a community of people who you don't interact with in real life is a very good way to do it at first. To find the words you want to speak, to have people to talk to about it without worries of real-world consequences. It's a scary time, coming out. It's very important, sometimes, to understand your feelings by simply having a place to let it all spill out. There were things I didn't realize about myself until I started talking about them.I'm still living in the closet but I can't stop lying to myself in my head all of the time about it and my real name isn't on here so I don't feel like I'm at half the risk in admitting it here than somewhere else. I wish I'd been born in a girl's body and I cannot stand my own skin. Admitting this to anybody even if it's just basically internet strangers that I make NIN jokes with and bitch about bands with a lot is both extremely uncomfortable and yet somehow cathartic for me and just typing this is taking a lot but I'm just tired of pretending and feeling like I'm lying all of the time to everyone all of the time, including myself. I'm struggling a lot with this and this year seems to be the one where I really can't get away from all of these feelings.
Starting with your best friend is a great way to go, in my opinion. Always start with people who you know will love you and support you, even if they do not understand, they will try to understand. They will listen to you. These are the best people to start with. Once you're more comfortable with your words, know what questions people will have or statements they will try to tell you about yourself, that's when you move forward to telling people who you are more uneasy with. I also chose to tell some people through text first. My mom got an e-mail from me (mostly because I wanted to give her links, and at the time I was a good 6 hour drive away, and felt that way she could take her time to think about it before responding to me), some friends got texts, it can be a slow process at first but don't feel like you have to rush through. Take your time, tell people as you're comfortable, no matter if it's through text, e-mail, a snapchat, however you feel comfortable and safe telling them.I'm thinking of telling my best friend this week, but I don't know when, and I don't want to do it in person so it's gonna be via text, but I know it's going to be a while before I can be open about this with everyone in my life, let alone live in a way that'd be more comfortable for me. Where I live, I constantly have to hear gun-toting rednecks ramble on about how people like me are mentally ill and don't belong, all the while none of them realize that I'm one of those very people they like to openly tear down so frequently. I don't think I'll be able to do anything substantial about this for a long time and especially not until I live somewhere else, but bare minimum I can't keep lying to myself in my own head and acting like I am something that I know so deeply that I am not even though every single time I have to see my reflection I am reminded of how much of a prison my body feels like to me.
I hate to say it, but you will find those people (gun-toting rednecks rambling on about being mentally ill) everywhere. I live in New York, and though my local school district came out as sticking to protections for trans students, there has been some majorly disgusting backlash in comments. I have been told things straight to my face about how disgusting and unnatural and sinful trans people are, without the people realizing that I am trans myself. Which I guess is a testament to how masculine my mom's Lebanese genes are. I know I am VERY fortunate to be in the position I am in, as male-passing (and 99.9% of the time white-passing, I've only ever had one woman, middle eastern herself, recognize that I am Lebanese), I am able to confront people in person and call them out on their ignorance and bigotry, and that my freelance contracts are with groups and people who are supportive (though sometimes I wonder if it's only because I worked with them first, and then came out to them when it came time to write the first check to a name that doesn't seem to fit me).
Being told to our face that we are all of these terrible things, by people who assume we couldn't possibly be "one of those people" is quite an experience. You have to instantly do the mental gymnastics of "Should I say something, or not? Should I just nod and change the subject? Am I in a physically safe area to come out to them, or even just pretend to play devil's advocate and disagree? How will this person react?" all without leaving an awkward silence long enough that those decisions get made for you. By the way, never feel like you HAVE TO educate people about yourself or the community. I know there are a lot of times, even still, when I kick myself for hours, even days, for not standing up to them and saying something. Do not get yourself stuck in that mindset.
We are all here to talk if you ever want to. And to listen.I know this is all probably really, really generic and boring and generally stupid so thanks for reading this if you did, I just needed to say this somewhere where somebody else can see who isn't me. This isn't easy for me to do and I've alternated for a good thirty minutes now between staring at the post button and considering deleting the whole thing but I feel like it's too late for me to keep doing things like that when it comes to this like I have for years now. It's stupid that this is such a big deal to me but it is. I feel like none of this should ever matter to me and that I shouldn't care but it does and I do.
she/her/hers
i am in basically the exact same boat as you (though i'm lucky i live in mostly liberal chicago), so please don't feel like you're alone in this. we care. i care. i'm sitting here crying knowing that you and i feel the same way, as i've always felt a kinship with you, and now even more so.
always here if you need to talk <3
Active Member
I didn't come out to my best friend this past week.
I did, however, come out to two other people, which is twice as many as I intended to. Both were very positive towards me, even though it was so difficult for me. I know not everyone is gonna be that cool with me.
I was recently listening to an interview with Laura-Jane Grace of Against Me and she was discussing when she had to confront her transgender identity because the same patterns of thinking had kept happening her entire life no matter how long they went away. It pretty much kind of broke me because I knew exactly what she was saying. I don't know why I've been lying to myself about this truth that I've always kind of known it just hurts a lot to think about but I don't know what to do about all of it. Thank you, all of you, who have been so wonderful to me on here and have been supportive be it from those beautiful comments that made me cry to those seemingly simple likes that made me cry. I never thought that people taking two seconds to press a button could make me so emotional but they have.
I am gonna tell my best friend soon. I've told myself that for almost a month so who knows how honest it'll actually turn out to be, but I've loved him as a friend for a solid six years now and it feels wrong to hide it from him. He's asked me in the past if I was transgender and all it did was terrify me that people could sense that in me. Now it's starting to just reaffirm how much that person really is the greatest friend that I have ever had. I don't know why it's such a roadblock to tell him but I guess I do -- the moment that I do, a constant in my life becomes a source of proof that this is all real. I know it's all real. But as long as it's all in my head it's easy to brush it away. Even when the people who do know aren't regular, daily encounters, it's easier to diminish and ignore. When I tell him, this is gonna be so much truer than it seems to me. I know he's going to accommodate and support me, and that's honestly what scares me the most -- once I feel that, how do I cope with the rest of the world not doing so? Once I know what it's like for someone to call me a woman and use the name I want and recognize me as me and not just "play along" in the way that some people who pretend to be supportive but are really still judgmental do, how am I supposed to stay closeted with everyone else and hide it? I'm so terrified that once they know it, I'll need to tell everybody, and then it'll get that much harder.
I'm sorry for treating this like a borderline diary, but it's the only place I can go where I can talk about this without feeling tied down to it.
Active Member
Hey Kleiner,
So I read your initial post the other day and wanted to respond but this week has been ridiculously busy and I didn’t have time to put together my thoughts and post a proper response. Even now I’m still super busy today but I’m going to write this post little by little throughout the day because otherwise there is just no way I’m going to have time this week otherwise. Ha. Being an adult sucks.
First of all, I know how scary this has been, both because of what you posted and also because of my own experiences. It’s been so long since I first came out to someone (about 16 years) and I remember being terrified. It was my best friend at the time and I didn’t know how she would react. Turns out she was totally accepting, if not fully understanding (being 2001 at the time probably didn’t help). Soon after I came out to the person who is currently my best friend (actually, we became best friends just after that). She has been amazingly supportive our entire friendship, and I know that without her this whole process would have been so, so much more difficult. Having my friends support me means a lot, having my best friend support me means the world. It sounds like your best friend is probably going to be supportive. I’d be willing to bet that after you tell him you’ll wonder why you were ever nervous about it. Take your time, tell him when you’re ready, but things will probably be just fine and you will feel SO MUCH better once you have that off your chest.
I know it’s scary now. I can tell you from experience that it gets less scary the more you do it. The more you open up to people, the more you start living as the real you, the more you push past your comfort zone and make yourself try things that you think you’re not ready for…the easier things get.
I remember a couple of years ago going out in a skirt in public for the very first time (outside of a safe space like a support group, known gay and trans friendly restaurant, friend's house, etc.) At the recommendation of my therapist, I ran into a 24 hour Wal-Mart to grab something at, like, almost midnight since it was on my way home my support group and our usual after group dinner/hangout. I was absolutely terrified. I figured this would be a good time to go but the place was kind of packed. I guess people like to go shopping at midnight on a Saturday. Who knew?
I ran in as quickly as I could, tried not to make eye contact with anyone, bought the item and ran back out. It was the last time I would go back out in a skirt for another couple of years. Nothing happened, but I was still terrified. Then I slowly started going out as myself. First in a t-shirt and women’s jeans. Then, eventually, about a year ago, I ventured out in a skirt again (with a friend in tow). I remember we were supposed to meet for breakfast but there was a miscommunication and she ended up at a different restaurant. While I waited for her I nervously stood outside the building, trying to distract myself with my phone. I then realized something that changed everything. I remember telling myself (even though I didn’t entire feel it yet) that I was allowed to do this. I saw other people, bigots, gawkers, anyone who would have a problem with me, as telling me that I wasn’t allowed to be myself. That they were literally telling me that I needed their permission to exist in the world, and permission wasn’t granted. Dress and act the way we want or we’re going to make your life such a hell that you’ll go running back into the closet.
I thought this and then I thought, “Fuck them. This is who I am. I am allowed to walk through the world as myself. I am allowed to dress and act however I want. And anyone who has a problem with it is literally trying to tell me how to live my life and I am WAY too stubborn to ever let that happen.”
And that was the turning point. Anytime I would start to get freaked out, have second thoughts, almost not go out in girl mode, I told myself that I had every right to exist and not a damn person was going to stop me. I am a woman, I am going through the world as a woman, same as any other woman, and I am allowed to do that. Period. I started getting more and more bold and, over time, I eventually got to the point where I was pretty much living full time except work.
And that’s where I’m at now. And I’m hoping to tell work and be completely full time in about three or four months. Hell, I even use the women’s restroom now completely on my own (this only started happening within the last couple of months, and let me tell you it was scary at first but it has gotten easier).
I let fear rule my entire life. I didn’t start seeing a therapist about my gender identity until I was 31. I turn 34 in less than a week. It took three years of intense therapy, hormones, lots of support from my friends and family and, above all else, me pushing past my fear and forcing myself to do the things I knew I needed to to be happy to finally get here. I wish I had transitioned sooner. I wish I hadn’t lost all of my 20s being scared and undecided. I wish to God I could go back and tell 17 year old me, hey, it’s going to be ok. Come out to everyone, start living as you. Just do the thing. I let fear dictate how I lived and once I pushed past that fear and actually started living, I realized just how flimsy and silly that fear really was. It wasn’t nearly as hard or as scary as I thought to face my fears and make the leap. In the end we only get one crack at this life, and it is entirely up to us to make the most of it. Don’t let fear rule your life. Be brave, even if you’re not sure you can. Be safe, be careful, don’t rush but also don’t let yourself become complacent either. You’ll look back and wonder what took you so long.
I’m always here if you need to talk, on ETS or even Skype if you wanted. I might be a bit slow in responding because things are so ridiculously busy right now but I promise I will respond. ETS is a wonderfully supportive place and there are a lot of really great people here, trans and cis alike, who have your back. Don’t ever feel like you can’t come here and be completely open. That’s what this place, and especially this thread, are for.
Last edited by theruiner; 03-07-2017 at 08:53 PM.
Active Member
Two weeks ago I had never told a person that I knew about who I was inside, and had still barely been able to accept it as part of myself rather than fight with it constantly behind the scenes in my head. Now my best friend knows, several people I'm close with know, and friends I've had for years are calling me the name I want rather than the one I was given. This has been unbelievable. It's been faster than a lot of people recommend but knowing myself, I am the sort of person who, if they don't dive right in, will never get into the pool most of the time.
The only person I still need to tell before I really "switch over" with social media and those sorts of things is my mother. Once that's been done, I don't think I'm going to be seeing my legal name much outside of signatures and IDs, and I know way down the line that might get to change, too. I have no sense of long-term with any of this because whenever I've thought of it in full, I get terrified and hide emotionally from it. Taking this a day at a time, viewing it as "How am I realizing myself today" rather than 'What do I want to do for this issue in ten years" is helping immensely. All of you wonderful people here have been beyond encouraging and no words or comments can really cement just how positive this thread's been for me since participating in it. The people who know probably wouldn't without your overwhelming support and blessings.
I told somebody out loud for the first time a couple of nights ago and it was the most emotionally intense, cathartic thing to happen in a very long time. It felt like it "became real" verbally which is what I was always afraid of but when it happened it wasn't terrifying in the least. And the other worry of mine -- that the more I progressed, the more difficult pretending to be my birth identity would be -- was definitely with good reason, but I don't even care. It's like being born in a prison and then getting to leave and having to go back for hours at a time before being released again, seeing oceans and mountains and trees for the first time outside of photographs. You don't miss the prison and you don't really care too much while you're there because you know what's waiting beyond it. It's been a beautiful feeling.
Active Member
Oh my god, this post makes me so happy. Welcome to the light, my friend. It's wonderful over here.
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