Trent Reznor and Belief in God

[atinimaedigresyl]

What else do u think 9 inch nails are used for?

[Ryan]

From interview just posted in NIN Spotting:

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/fea...s_trent_reznor

ASK TRENT
BRODY DALLE: T-DOG, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?
“I do. I take comfort in thinking there’s some purpose and higher power of some sort. I’m not affiliated with any particular religion but that gives me some sense of comfort. I’ve had some dark days through the years and been through some shit that makes me think there is some reason here and it’s beyond just physics and biology.”

[sheepdean]

oh god please don't bring it back

[Ryan]

haha

ten chars

[howdidislipinto]

Ha! I was seriously thinking we should resuscitate this thread. I'm glad someone did it.

[Swykk]

Oh goddammit, not this again. Can I face palm an entire thread? This is like the last days of Meathead, where it was sad and not funny. You're good people, Ryan but I can't follow you on this one.

[howdidislipinto]

In these post-billpulsipher days, I'd probably go back and be nicer to that PaperThin guy.

[Ryan]

Oh goddammit, not this again. Can I face palm an entire thread? This is like the last days of Meathead, where it was sad and not funny. You're good people, Ryan but I can't follow you on this one.

I wouldn't have bumped it, except Trent just said that in an interview published today. Relevant!

[Tony Gordon]

Fuck religion

The end.

[eversonpoe]

Fuck religion

The end.

dude, i'm an atheist (and have been for two thirds of my life) but even that seemed a bit harsh.

yeah, most organized religions cause problems, but that doesn't mean everyone's interpretation of them is terrible.

also, you've been on this board for, like, two days, you've made less than 30 posts, and almost EVERY SINGLE ONE has been EXTREMELY negative and/or condescending.

we're all friends here, and we're all here to have intelligent discussions. calm down, try to be a little less negative, and join in on the fun.

[Little_Dreamer]

It's not like this is the biggest revelation ever. He said something about 'believing in a higher power' in an interview in the 90's (can't find it right now), so I really don't understand why this is supposed to be such big news.
Ever read the guys lyrics? He never came across as an atheist to me. Not the biggest lover of organized religion, yes. But not an atheist.

Anyway, honestly: does it really matter if he believes in God or not? Seriously?

[Ryan]

Yes. My life depends on it!

[m15a]

It's not like this is the biggest revelation ever. He said something about 'believing in a higher power' in an interview in the 90's (can't find it right now), so I really don't understand why this is supposed to be such big news.
Ever read the guys lyrics? He never came across as an atheist to me. Not the biggest lover of organized religion, yes. But not an atheist.

Anyway, honestly: does it really matter if he believes in God or not? Seriously?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole thread (which I didn't read) or just the recent article, but regarding the recent article, I think it's less about it being a shock - the article just answers the question definitively.

As to whether the question matters, it might help people interpret the lyrics if you're interested in connecting the lyrics to Trent's personal experiences. You might argue that the lyrics make it obvious that Trent believes in God, but you could also argue that the lyrics make it obvious that Trent is Christian or maybe even a specific Christian denomination.

[Jinsai]

For the most part, I don't really care what a musician I listen to believes. As long as they're not singing about it all the time. An unfortunate number of musicians that I like are Scientologists. Oh well.

[Little_Dreamer]

I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole thread (which I didn't read) or just the recent article, but regarding the recent article, I think it's less about it being a shock - the article just answers the question definitively.

The whole thread. I mean, there's 5 pages discussing the guys faith. It obviously is a big deal for some people.
I consider myself an atheist, and I couldn't care less about what other people believe in. I guess I just don't understand why others care so much about it.

[Emil Dorbell]

There's a huge difference between that quote, which is almost leaning towards agnostic, and being a follower of a specific religion. Myself, I believe that "unexplainable" or "supernatural" are just ways to describe things we haven't figured out scientifically yet. If we could prove God exists, he wouldn't be supernatural anymore, would he?

[m15a]

The whole thread. I mean, there's 5 pages discussing the guys faith. It obviously is a big deal for some people.
I consider myself an atheist, and I couldn't care less about what other people believe in. I guess I just don't understand why others care so much about it.

Skimming the thread, it looks like a lot of people were interested in it as it relates to the meaning of the lyrics. (Plus a bunch of "who cares?" posts. Plus a few oversimplified explanations of various religions.) Maybe there are some posts mixed in that care "too much" about Trent's beliefs but, eh, why are other people's interest in Trent's beliefs such a big deal to you? (Rhetorical question.)

[Little_Dreamer]

Skimming the thread, it looks like a lot of people were interested in it as it relates to the meaning of the lyrics. (Plus a bunch of "who cares?" posts. Plus a few oversimplified explanations of various religions.) Maybe there are some posts mixed in that care "too much" about Trent's beliefs but, eh, why are other people's interest in Trent's beliefs such a big deal to you? (Rhetorical question.)

No idea It's not the interest itself that annoys me, more the seemingly endless discussions about it.
Ah I don't know, maybe I'm just in a pissy mood today. It's raining, I'm tired and my boss is pissing me off big time right now

Edit: also, I can get hung up on stupid little things and forget to look at the bigger picture. Plus, english isn't my first language, so it's sometimes difficult for me to explain myself the way I want to. Sorry if what I wrote came across the wrong way.

[niggo]

I can't wrap my head around the amount of people who still believe in God. Don't get me wrong, it's totally okay and it's good for them, but I think in this day and age it's kinda strange. Whether it be organized religion or simply the belief in a higher power, I for one would never find any comfort in such things - and it's hard for me to identify with people who do.

I mean, being on this forum I think it's safe to say that we're all obsessed with NIN in some kind of way, so naturally Trent's beliefs ARE interesting. I don't like his music any less because he's believing in some sort of a God, but, you know, deep down I wish the artist I admire the most would share the same view as me.

I dunno.

[allegro]

I can't wrap my head around the amount of people who still believe in God. Don't get me wrong, it's totally okay and it's good for them, but I think in this day and age it's kinda strange. Whether it be organized religion or simply the belief in a higher power, I for one would never find any comfort in such things - and it's hard for me to identify with people who do.

it's hard for me to identify with people who can't even identify with people who do. What's so fucking hard about a superior life force? Not hairy thunderer Christian life force, but a DeGrasse Tyson-acceptable life force. Even fucking Einstein had Spinoza's God.

I believe in God, but I do not participate in (or support the concept of) an organized religion. Yet, I'm educated, intelligent, and a well-rounded individual. It doesn't affect anyone else; only me.

I think this thread is kinda like Stanley Fish's reader's response, lol.

[ophelia_]

Fuck religion

The end.

Congrats. I just lost my facepalm virginity to you.

I don't consider myself religious, but unless anyone is forcing their religion onto you, which Trent certainly isn't, then I don't see the need to make such statements. It just makes you seem narrow minded and ignorant.

[niggo]

it's hard for me to identify with people who can't even identify with people who do. What's so fucking hard about a superior life force?

Absolutely nothing. It's okay that people believe in that. Really. Although there's not a great difference for me between the Christian God and any other superior life force.

You know, it's certainly not my business to identify with people all over the world, whether they be religious or not. I just said that in regards to Trent. When I listen to his music, especially the more personal stuff, I guess I could say I'm kinda identifying myself with him in that song. And that's for example the reason I don't like some of the lyrics of Find My Way that much. "Oh dear Lord, hear my prayer" just doesn't resonate well with me. That's all.

[Emil Dorbell]

I believe in God, but I do not participate in (or support the concept of) an organized religion.

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

[allegro]

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

It's more complicated than that, especially since we were both raised according to those Christian beliefs. There's a kind of hybrid Christian spirituality brewing right now that's becoming a lot more common in this country, and it kind of cherry picks; a sort of Christian-Buddhist-Spiritual hybrid. The Bible is a piece of literature. The modern version of spirituality and purpose and a higher power comes from many sources of literature.

[theimage13]

Fuck religion

The end.

Fuck this sentiment. The end.

No, not the end, because a topic that affects the lives of billions of people doesn't get reduced to "fuck that, the end".

Here's where I stand. Raised Catholic, but spent most of my upbringing and a good deal of my early adult life being one of those "if you believe in God, you're stupid" people. Which I'm not proud of.

But then I started to get curious. I'd read an article about how scientists could use electrical current to predictably manipulate someone's body (i.e. if we apply this exact voltage/current to someone at this exact spot for this exact time, this movement will occur). Which made me start to think "our physical functions are basically just mechanical/electrical...so what makes us...well...us?" Then I dated someone who was earning their dual doctorate in immunology/pathology - an absolutely brilliant person who I can promise knows far more about the human body and biology than anybody on this board. And she was a devout Catholic who felt "an inexplicable comfort when [she] stepped into church". That made me even more curious. During that time period, I lost a family member, and in the 24 hours afterward, numerous inexplicable things happened to everyone in my family, myself included. Things that I normally would have been skeptical about, and made me think "okay, you're just making that up to push an agenda". The way that Tony is probably thinking about this post right now.

I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do. I roll my eyes when a child is murdered and someone says "it's okay, it was God's will". And I get outright furious when someone denies their child life saving medical attention because their religion forbids it. But now, I look at things with a much looser interpretation of what "god" is. When I stopped looking at God as a person and more as just some inexplicable force present in the universe that no human can fully comprehend while living, it made me much more open. I do not identify with any religion, and I can't honesty stand up and unwaveringly say "I believe in God". There are still things that make me doubtful, like the atheists' favorite "if there's a god, how could the Holocaust happen?". But just because I don't have the faith to believe in something I can't define or prove, doesn't mean I have to believe beyond a doubt that there isn't something I'm missing. And it definitely doesn't mean that I have a reason to go around saying "fuck you" to anyone who does believe.

For anyone who is either on the fence, or definitely doesn't believe but is at least interested in reading on the subject, C.S. Lewis' famous Mere Christianity is a terrific read. Yes, it discusses one particular religion, but the opening chapters lay the groundwork for his argument on the existence of God. And given that he had been a staunch Atheist for years, it makes it easier to identify with for those who are skeptical.

Final note: "fuck that"? Trent went from "God is dead and no one cares" while he was high as a kite, and too drugged out to even stand up (literally) and remember the words to his songs. Suddenly, it's "oh dear lord, hear my prayer", and he's married, in fantastic shape, sober, and winning major awards while juggling two different bands and a career in film scoring. I'm not saying "God magically made Trent a better person and gave him great stuff". I don't believe that's how religion works. But if finding faith gives you the strength to better yourself and accomplish great things, how in the world can you say "fuck that?"

[Omega]

Alls I gotta say is that if Trent was a Born Again Christian, he'd make the coolest sounding Christian music ever!

[allegro]

Trent went from "God is dead and no one cares"

The Downward Spiral is a concept album with a protagonist. That protagonist is most certainly not Trent Reznor; he may certainly contain some elements of Trent Reznor, but Trent Reznor, himself, has indicated in interviews that the protagonist in TDS is not him, personally. The protagonist in TDS says "YOUR God is dead" (big hairy thunderer Old Testament God). The protagonist in TDS on one hand says "if there is a Hell, I'll see you there" but then says that "Angels bleed from the tainted touch of my caress." I think that TDS (and the entire NIN catalog up through TDS) is a good example of Trent Reznor's knowledge of (and obsession with) good vs. evil, sin, temptation, madonna/whore, etc.

[allegro]

I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do.

That's because you only define "God" as the Biblical God and not as a universal collective God that perhaps our relatively limited mind cannot grasp. What if God is, say, like the Q on ST:TNG? Or what if God is the Universe, itself? What if the Universe is far more complex than we understand? What if the Universe has a personality, has some kind of ability to "love" us? What if God has no control over how the Universe or our planet works? Earth clearly is an uninhabitable and hostile place and it's lucky that we're able to live here. Maybe we are just a bunch of chemicals and energy that is a part of the Universe? What if that Biblical God and this other God kind of overlap?

[m15a]

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

I see that you're from Sweden, and I can only speak for usage in American English, but God means more than "a god, and I'm Christian." It sounds like you're asking people to change what they're saying just to satisfy some people's the preconceptions. It'd be like if someone told me that I shouldn't call myself "American"* because people will assume I'm white - that I should say "American resident" or something like that. That's also true, but it doesn't have the same meaning. And the suggestion and its implications (that the "majority" should be assumed to be normal or the standard) are pretty offensive.

* I know there are issues with using "American" to mean someone from the US. It's just the example that came to mind.

EDIT: Ugh. Can't believe I got pulled into reading this thread.

[theimage13]

That's because you only define "God" as the Biblical God and not as a universal collective God that perhaps our relatively limited mind cannot grasp. What if God is, say, like the Q on ST:TNG? Or what if God is the Universe, itself?

Did you even read the whole paragraph that I wrote? Allow me a brief refresher:

I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do. I roll my eyes when a child is murdered and someone says "it's okay, it was God's will". And I get outright furious when someone denies their child life saving medical attention because their religion forbids it. But now, I look at things with a much looser interpretation of what "god" is. When I stopped looking at God as a person and more as just some inexplicable force present in the universe that no human can fully comprehend while living, it made me much more open.

The people who have personally told me the whole "sunset" spiel are people who are extremely religious, and are talking about God in the biblical sense. That's one reason why I roll my eyes - they ARE telling me that "the one and only God almighty, maker of heaven and earth" is this biblical being that created the universe. But even when looking at it from a more open perspective, ie what you and I are both talking about, seeing a beautiful sunset doesn't constitute proof of anything to me. All it proves to me is that the universe, while terrifyingly large and full of things that are out to kill us, can also sometimes be beautiful. But it doesn't necessarily prove that a "god" of any kind exists. It's that sort of black and white blanket statement of "x proves y" - when it really doesn't - that makes me roll my eyes.