Game of Thrones - Spoilers

[Canuckle]

I really enjoyed last night's episode. Although it was 'spoiled' for me through some random comments section.

That being said, I am getting a bit weary on the entire story arc (I have not read the books). I understand it's the nature of the books and the show to have 10+ parallel storylines going on at once, but I'm starting to grow tired of trying to get excited for each significant event that happens in what feels like a vacuum with no true significance to the overall problem in GoT. Much like how Lost eventually 'lost' its way in regards to the mystery of the island.

The first two seasons had a couple climatic moments where it was the culmination of a handful of storylines, in the past two seasons (so far) there have been some great moments, but they feel confined to the individual characters that are involved. I'm really hoping that last night's episode starts a chain of events that focuses the show into a less of a disparate pace of storytelling.

I doubt it, but one can hope. (i.e., it would be nice to feel some form of finality during this years season finale and not immediately wonder what's going to happen in season 5)

[Mr. Blaileen]

Having read the books and knowing what's going to happen, there are definitely things that will be wrapped up by the end of the season. Knowing the author/showrunners, we're always going to be wondering what's next, though.

They've squeezed a lot of huge events now into the last four episodes, so I think it will take a little bit for them to show the fallout from these events, and what it means for the rest of these characters.

Last night's episode was definitely a game changer, though. Director Alex Gray (who is also doing episodes 3, 8, and 10 this season) had this to say on the rest of the season:

Spoiler: "Two is completely intertwined with the rest of the season. Ned Stark's death was not and end, it was a beginning. It's when the show began. All the deaths are like that, and Joffrey's death is no different. Joffrey's death affects the show through to its climax."

[orestes]

My one minor gripe about the episode is the omission of a huge but subtle revelation during the pre-wedding breakfast, involving Joffrey.

[Baphomette]

Spoiler: His familiarity with Valyrian steel?

[orestes]

Yes.

I don't know why it was left out.

[howdidislipinto]

Yes.

I don't know why it was left out.

Can I ask what the implications of his familiarity were?

Also, hello thread! I think this is the first time I've ventured here. Love the show, and don't really intend on reading the books -- not out of disinterest, probably more that I don't really have faith that the book series will ever be finished so I figure I should just enjoy the show as it happens. By the end of the most recent HBO renewal the books and show should be all caught up, right?

[orestes]

Book spoiler: Spoiler: it has to do with Bran, so figure it out.

[slave2thewage]

I think they might have that revelation in a later episode.

It's sad that Jack Gleeson is giving up acting. It was fun seeing act circles around pretty much everyone at the wedding.

[howdidislipinto]

Iiiinteresting. Would that fit with what was shown in S1? (Basically (book spoiler), Spoiler: did Baratheon actually say on the show that it'd be a mercy if Bran died like he did in the book?) I've been watching the show as it airs, saving the big rewatch for a bluray box set down the road, so I'm sure I've missed plenty of little intricacies.

[Baphomette]

No, he didn't say that in S1. Maybe that's why the other thing was left out.

[Baphomette]

Gonna rewatch the Sam and Gilly scenes tonight and save my Ambien.

BORING.

[orestes]

Yeah, the change to Mole Town. . . I dunno.

[slave2thewage]

That fucking sept scene...

[orestes]

They managed to make that scene awkwarder than in the book.

In other news: get it Ellaria.

[thelastdisciple]

If anyone needed a fantastic season 1 recap.

[littlemonkey613]

If I recall correctly, in the books, Spoiler: Jamie approaches Cersei once more... in the chapel in front of a certain dead person... but Jamie doesn't go that far there.

Spoiler: In the books its supposed to be implied that Jaime forces himself on Cersei and its still the most pleasurable sex she can have. Its sort of supposed to be this sad subtle reality. He does force himself onto her in that scene, but she ends up getting turned on (much like how Dany enjoys sex most with Khal Drogo even though rape is a part of the fabric of their relationship.) It's a much more subtle and interesting sexual dynamic. Ive noticed in the show they simplify the most interesting Lannister sex/power dynamics. For instance I would argue what they did to Tyrion and Shae is the grossest bastardization of any storyline in the show. Newsflash - making a character an idiot doesn't give them more agency. Making them star crossed lovers and making her in love with him is the stupidest shit ever...

I think they simplified the scene to make it easier to digest and navigate? I dont really get it. There's supposed to be different levels of how things work for sex and Cersei there was Robert (whom she was like a slave to sexually, being raped periodically and hurt physically) then the people she sleeps with to gain power (everyone but Jaime) then there's Jaime, the only person she can enjoy sexually but its still a far cry from consensual all the time, despite her warming up to it. In her POV in the 4th book she does mention that Jaime wouldn't take "no" for an answer a lot of the time and you think she is describing Robert but at the end of the description you find out its Jaime and your like "o fuck i didnt realize that"

[Space Suicide]

What have I done to myself?

I just bought the season 1 blu-ray set.

Late to the party.

[Baphomette]

Upon rewatch, noticed first mention of The Golden Company.

[orestes]

By the Onion Knight, right?

[ambergris]

Spoiler: In the books its supposed to be implied that Jaime forces himself on Cersei and its still the most pleasurable sex she can have. Its sort of supposed to be this sad subtle reality. He does force himself onto her in that scene, but she ends up getting turned on (much like how Dany enjoys sex most with Khal Drogo even though rape is a part of the fabric of their relationship.) It's a much more subtle and interesting sexual dynamic. Ive noticed in the show they simplify the most interesting Lannister sex/power dynamics. For instance I would argue what they did to Tyrion and Shae is the grossest bastardization of any storyline in the show. Newsflash - making a character an idiot doesn't give them more agency. Making them star crossed lovers and making her in love with him is the stupidest shit ever...

I think they simplified the scene to make it easier to digest and navigate? I dont really get it. There's supposed to be different levels of how things work for sex and Cersei there was Robert (whom she was like a slave to sexually, being raped periodically and hurt physically) then the people she sleeps with to gain power (everyone but Jaime) then there's Jaime, the only person she can enjoy sexually but its still a far cry from consensual all the time, despite her warming up to it. In her POV in the 4th book she does mention that Jaime wouldn't take "no" for an answer a lot of the time and you think she is describing Robert but at the end of the description you find out its Jaime and your like "o fuck i didnt realize that"

I'm not sure that there is that much difference between book and tv version. After all, they have to translate it to the screen somehow. Those "First she resists, then she gives in" scenes always make me uncomfortable. The first time I noticed those in "Blade Runner" when Deckard slams the door when Rachel wants to leave. Is it rape or not? Maybe the woman still doesn't want it but she stops refusing, simply because of the difference of physical strength... I guess that's what happens here and it's just a small matter of degree.
I actually like the changes they made to Shae, but they do make the next development of her character more difficult to accomplish.
I assume they already put in some stuff from the 4th and 5th book into this season? I think they are rather skilled at that, but this episode felt a bit scattered.

[littlemonkey613]

I'm not sure that there is that much difference between book and tv version. After all, they have to translate it to the screen somehow. Those "First she resists, then she gives in" scenes always make me uncomfortable. The first time I noticed those in "Blade Runner" when Deckard slams the door when Rachel wants to leave. Is it rape or not? Maybe the woman still doesn't want it but she stops refusing, simply because of the difference of physical strength... I guess that's what happens here and it's just a small matter of degree.
I actually like the changes they made to Shae, but they do make the next development of her character more difficult to accomplish.
I assume they already put in some stuff from the 4th and 5th book into this season? I think they are rather skilled at that, but this episode felt a bit scattered.

They took out where she like "“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” LOLOL

Also they took out every line of him coming back and her being like "you're my other half, I was lost without you, I was so worried you would die , you make me whole" yada yada yada. Instead they made everything all like

Cersei: "Fuck you for not having a hand and being captured jaime ur so selfish!"
Jaime: babe what
Cersei: *is normal and in character and wants tyrion dead
Jaime: YOU HATEFUL WOMAN *hurts cersei physically.

really out of character shit. Destroys their two character arcs in relation to eachother. Shame shame...

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Can't get my head around all the internet King Joffrey hate. He was one of my favorite characters on the show. Along with the guy who cut off Theon's dick.

[howdidislipinto]

Those "First she resists, then she gives in" scenes always make me uncomfortable.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I haven't read the book version, but if it was along those lines, I'd rather have the show depict what it REALLY is, rather than have everyone continue to blur lines and debate what's what regarding an issue that really doesn't have any grey areas.

[Piko]

Can't get my head around all the internet King Joffrey hate. He was one of my favorite characters on the show. Along with the guy who cut off Theon's dick.

Joffery was pure evil. He was a good character when it came to a despicable character that you're meant to hate. When he died, I was shocked. I expected more. Not complaining. But to have a character so evil like Joffery die from just poison just feels so unfulfilling, heh.

[Piko]

I was hoping for a fate worse than the red wedding. Considering reading the books, but i'm weary of doing it. Kind of like going into the seasons blind. But, I get a strong feeling that Tywin had something to do with the poisoning. Maybe he offered his "assurances", again...

[orestes]

Ummmm, no.

[hobochic]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I haven't read the book version, but if it was along those lines, I'd rather have the show depict what it REALLY is, rather than have everyone continue to blur lines and debate what's what regarding an issue that really doesn't have any grey areas.

How didn't the show depict what it really was? In my opinion they managed to portray a rape, and blatantly so. Anything more obvious and in your face would have just been out of character - considering who we're dealing with and their history. This was probably one of my biggest WTF scenes so far in the show.

[Baphomette]

This was probably one of my biggest WTF scenes so far in the show.

Incest, infanticide, cannibalism, appendage chopping, gelding, pet killing, deaths by burning and beheadings were NOTHING compared to this.

[thelastdisciple]

Incest, infanticide, cannibalism, appendage chopping, gelding, pet killing, deaths by burning and beheadings were NOTHING compared to this.

Yep, the people offended by that scene... i really have to wonder why none of these other gruesome acts bothered them.

So much hypocrisy.

There are tons of tragedies depicted in this show, things that are unacceptable in the real world.. any person of mature and sound mind can grasp that yet people seem to pick their favorites as far as what to get offended by.

I get the purism with the books vs. the show and triggers with personal experiences in life but jesus FUCKING christ.

[hobochic]

Incest, infanticide, cannibalism, appendage chopping, gelding, pet killing, deaths by burning and beheadings were NOTHING compared to this.

Perhaps I haven't been exposed enough to incestuous siblings raping each other next to their inbred son's corpse.