Controversial Music Opinions...

[Frozen Beach]

I love Tom Waits, I love his gravely voice and I find a lot of his songs memorable. He is the artist after Bowie I love the most. He, like Bowie, played personas, except his were more subtle. And Tom Waits is all about what he is currently, and doesn't really like looking back. From what I last read, he said he was slightly embarrassed by his earlier work, but Small Change and Closing Time are all solid. He didn't always sing with a gravely voice though, I think he picked that up from Howling Wolf.

[piggy]

I can relate retroactively about Tom Waits. It took me a really long time to get past the vocals and I'm still only a very, very casual fan. It was the songwriting and interesting usage of instruments that got me. I used to have similar issues with the vocals of Lou Reed and Leonard Cohen as well. I like them now but in very small, very specific doses.

[eversonpoe]

i don't like most of tom waits' early stuff (other than nighthawks at the diner). heart attack & vine is the first album that i LIKE, but only about half of it. Swordfish Trombones all the way through Real Gone is where he really shines.

[GulDukat]

A lot of fans and critics seem to write off The Smashing Pumpkins after MCATIS, Adore or Machina. I actually like the post reunion, '00s/'10's as much as classic Pumpkins. The Teargarden eps were, overall, half-baked and weak, but the other albums, Zeitgeist, American Gothic, Oceania and MTAE are all excellent, imho.

[EndlessLoveless]

So when i downloaded mbv and burnt the cd (old school) the day it came out years ago, by accident i changed the tracklisting to alphabetical order, so "if i am" and "in another way" were the first tracks...i didnt figure this out until recently and i like my version way better. "if i am" is great lead off song for the first album in forever.

[eversonpoe]

So when i downloaded mbv and burnt the cd (old school) the day it came out years ago, by accident i changed the tracklisting to alphabetical order, so "if i am" and "in another way" were the first tracks...i didnt figure this out until recently and i like my version way better. "if i am" is great lead off song for the first album in forever.

HUGE pet peeve of mine is when vinyl comes with a download code...and there's no proper metadata on the tracks, not even track numbers. so you end up listening to it in alphabetical order (if you're in a hurry and don't notice) digitally. how hard is it to encode metadata onto MP3s?!?

[Kunstmord]

The only Tom Waits album I genuinely don't enjoy is Bad As Me, and I don't even know why... I'm a huge fan, have some amazing low-quality bootlegs from the 70s which I love, etc. Pre-Bad As Me, probably I'd say Foreign Affairs was his weakest work (but not bad by any means), but apart from that, it ranges from VERY GOOD to downright AMAZING. And Closing Time is very different from the rest of his records, but I just love the melancholy mood of it.

My controversial opinion – Agharta and Dark Magus by Miles Davis are the most intense, insane live albums ever done by any musician/band. They're beyond words for me. Agharta might be slightly easier on the ears and shows off the musicianship of every one more, I think (not in terms of overall quality, but solos, etc.), while Dark Magus is just a pummeling slab of sound that leaves me exhausted by the end. Amazing stuff.

[emptydesk]

Never liked Tom Waits, feels like it borders on a blackface routine.

[Mantra]

My controversial opinion – Agharta and Dark Magus by Miles Davis are the most intense, insane live albums ever done by any musician/band. They're beyond words for me. Agharta might be slightly easier on the ears and shows off the musicianship of every one more, I think (not in terms of overall quality, but solos, etc.), while Dark Magus is just a pummeling slab of sound that leaves me exhausted by the end. Amazing stuff.

Really? I really love most of what he was doing in the early 70s, On the Corner and whatnot, but I feel like by '75 or so he was beginning to go off the deep end. If you listen to those albums on the right night with the right amount of liquor/drugs, they can sometimes have an appealing cathartic quality, but I usually find them sort of boring. Press play at any random moment on those albums and it all sounds so similar, just the same never ending fusion groove. I guess On The Corner has a little bit of that same quality, but it's so much more brief and focused, so I never feel exhausted by it. It sounds exciting and fresh and cool and fun, but by the time you get to Dark Magus, etc, that approach is starting to get old.

On The Corner, In a Silent Way, Live Evil, that's the best stuff from that whole era. Even Get Up With It is pretty decent.

[eversonpoe]

My controversial opinion – Agharta and Dark Magus by Miles Davis are the most intense, insane live albums ever done by any musician/band. They're beyond words for me. Agharta might be slightly easier on the ears and shows off the musicianship of every one more, I think (not in terms of overall quality, but solos, etc.), while Dark Magus is just a pummeling slab of sound that leaves me exhausted by the end. Amazing stuff.

i LOVE Agharta! i bought the double-CD when i was working at Barnes & Noble in high school and i think i had it in my car CD player for a month straight. i had to turn the bass way up, though, since it's a thin-sounding recording. i've always wished someone would remaster it.

Never liked Tom Waits, feels like it borders on a blackface routine.

...what the fuck does that mean?

[allegro]

Press play at any random moment on those albums and it all sounds so similar, just the same never ending fusion groove.

OMG THIS!!! Especially toward that period

My husband is a HUGE Miles fusion fan (he especially loves Bitches Brew) but it's just kinda meh to me. I guess I have to revisit it now that I'm older.

I'll stick with Sketches of Spain and Kind of Blue, LOL

[onthewall2983]

In A Silent Way, Bitches Brew, and A Tribute to Jack Johnson are the holy trinity for me. I have the box sets Sony released of all the sessions done for those albums, just compelling stuff from beginning to end for me. I like the Big Fun and Get Up With It albums too. Agharta and Pangaea represent the peak and the end of the line in a way. That's as far out as he ever got, and he called it a day for 5 years. His material was much simpler when he came back, but no less engaging for me.

A major key for me is his choice in bass players, in the early 70's and in the early 80's too. Michael Henderson lays down some wicked stuff from Jack Johnson on and Marcus Miller really pushed the instrument more as a melodic vehicle than anyone before him (in Miles' lineups anyway).

[allegro]

The funny thing is, I love the shit out of Weather Report, so it isn't like I hate jazz fusion. We play Weather Report all the time at home or on the boat.

But live Miles in the 70s, I remember seeing him playing live on TV in the 70s and he paced the stage playing one note for what seemed to be, like, 20 minutes. And it wasn't like I wasn't accustomed to live jazz, I was raised on it. But I didn't get it.

G and I saw John McLaughlin a few years ago at the HoB and I was so bored, I could barely support my own weight.

I also never "got" Ornette Coleman.

[onthewall2983]

McLaughlin is a bit hit or miss with me. In the Mahavishnu Orchestra he was untouchable and a guitar god. His playing with Miles was inspired, and his album with Carlos Santana is great. I also like a couple of his solo albums from the 70's and 1995's The Promise. ​But I could never get into some of his other work, and his recent albums sound a bit too bland for my tastes.

[emptydesk]

Because to me Tom Waits romanticizes a hobo character as a millionaire while copping what is essentially a Louis Armstrong voice. It bores me to no end. It's as unendingly dour and stylized as Bukowski, art for fedoras and vaping.

I'm in the right thread, right?

[Frozen Beach]

Louis Armstrong voice.

Funny, because Louis Armstrong is not the only person to ever sing in a deep voice. His voice is more reminiscent of Howling Wolf than anybody else.

It bores me to no end. It's as unendingly dour and stylized as Bukowski, art for fedoras and vaping.

I'm in the right thread, right?

It's fine to not like Tom Waits, but you really come across more like a vaping, fedora wearer than the people you're insulting. I don't appreciate being insulted by some cliche 4chan insult. And I'm sure other fans of Tom here don't appreciate it as well.

edit: also, after thinking about your comment that Tom " romanticizes a hobo character as a millionaire", I think it's absurd. If he was "romanticizing" it, a lot of his lyrics revolving around street life would be a lot more positive. His songs revolving around street life with drunks, hobos, prostitutes and whatever else are usually sad, fucked up tales, some of them even inspired by real life tales. He isn't romanticizing it, he's portraying it.

And if you're talking about his style, I see Tom less as being a hobo and more of him being inspired by the beat generation, by people like Jack Kerouac, William S Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg.

[Mantra]

My husband is a HUGE Miles fusion fan (he especially loves Bitches Brew) but it's just kinda meh to me. I guess I have to revisit it now that I'm older.

I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I can not figure out what the big deal is with Bitches Brew. I know it's a classic, but I've sat down with it a number of times over the years and every single time I'm left feeling incredibly underwhelmed. I just don't get it, and it's not like I'm not into the fusion stuff. Probably 75% of my favorite Miles albums fall under that era. But man, Bitches Brew just doesn't click with me.

[emptydesk]

I didn't realize I was personally insulting you by not liking Tom Waits, Frozen Beach.

[seasonsinthesky]

I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I can not figure out what the big deal is with Bitches Brew. I know it's a classic, but I've sat down with it a number of times over the years and every single time I'm left feeling incredibly underwhelmed. I just don't get it, and it's not like I'm not into the fusion stuff. Probably 75% of my favorite Miles albums fall under that era. But man, Bitches Brew just doesn't click with me.

Bitches Brew has its massive legacy because of the ripples it created in the jazz pond. Jazz players are the ones who revere it. Your typical jazz fan likely respects it but rarely puts it on for exactly the reason you stated – fascinating to study and apply to your own craft, but nearly impenetrable for pure listening.

I enjoy Bitches Brew like I enjoy Merzbow. The mood has to be specifically tailored to that sound.

[Frozen Beach]

I didn't realize I was personally insulting you by not liking Tom Waits, Frozen Beach.

You can not like Tom Waits all you want, I don't care, my issues is smug comments like this

art for fedoras and vaping.

[theimage13]

This has probably been said here before, but....

Adele is okay.

Just okay.

She has a good voice, but I just don't find her songs captivating at all. Never gotten one stuck in my head. Never heard one of the first time and wanted to shoo away anyone who tried to speak before it was done. Never found myself feeling awed or moved by the lyrics, even if it's about a topic I can relate to. And then when I feel like someone is "good" and the rest of the world is treating them like some magical savior, I think it makes me more critical of them.

So yeah, Adele? By no means a bad artist. But do I understand why her entire tour would sell out instantly? No, no I do not.

[Space Suicide]

This has probably been said here before, but....

Adele is okay.

Just okay.

She has a good voice, but I just don't find her songs captivating at all. Never gotten one stuck in my head. Never heard one of the first time and wanted to shoo away anyone who tried to speak before it was done. Never found myself feeling awed or moved by the lyrics, even if it's about a topic I can relate to. And then when I feel like someone is "good" and the rest of the world is treating them like some magical savior, I think it makes me more critical of them.

So yeah, Adele? By no means a bad artist. But do I understand why her entire tour would sell out instantly? No, no I do not.

I'm also in this camp of her having a good voice and being talented but the songs are just...so....boring. I listened to 21 when it came out years ago (girl I was with liked her immensely) and it had its moments but I was "like ok, now what?" whenever it ended. Powerful voice and range but the music fails me. The subject matter was all the same, or seemed as such.

[emptydesk]

Sorry, I just throw Waits, Cave, and Bukowski into that pile of shit pseudo-lit coffee shop bros like. Those dudes who liked Ayn Rand the year before and openly brag about carrying a flask.

[henryeatscereal]

Sorry, I just throw Waits, Cave, and Bukowski into that pile of shit pseudo-lit coffee shop bros like. Those dudes who liked Ayn Rand the year before and openly brag about carrying a flask.

You're in the right thread because it's a "controversial music opinion", but i don't get why you have to insult or put tags into people, you sound more like an attention whore than anything...

[emptydesk]

Because I live in the world, and the world has archetypes in it.

[emptydesk]

INDEPENDENT AS A HOG ON ICE

*accordion fart*

*cash register noise*

[Soma]

I feel like Joy Division should be one of my favorite bands, but they do almost absolutely nothing for me. Same with Velvet Underground. I understand the magnitude of their influence, but their records come across really flat and cold to my ears

[emptydesk]

if LOADED doesn't do it for ya, yr dead inside

[Soma]

That is something I could have already told you I could also say the same thing about anyone who isn't moved by 'Come On Up To The House'

[GulDukat]

I feel like Joy Division should be one of my favorite bands, but they do almost absolutely nothing for me. Same with Velvet Underground. I understand the magnitude of their influence, but their records come across really flat and cold to my ears

I felt that way about VU at first, but then, for some reason, something clicked. There is absolutely no one else like them, great band.