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Thread: Sigil 03_: An omen EP_

  1. #541
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    Since 2000-ish, you guys say NIN/Trent has sounded the same, and you blame it on Atticus. Atticus meanwhile has done Error, score work, remixes and production work that all sound totally different. Maybe it's Trent that's the problem?

    Or maybe y'all need to quit saying it all sounds the same when you haven't heard the EP yet.

  2. #542
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    Maybe the old music wasnt as much trent as everybody likes to believe. Clouser, dillon. Dare I say Patrick all may have had a heavy influence on NIN. Certainly More than they get credit for.

    Charlie's current music is reminiscent of TDS and fragile era. As well as what little we've heard from Jerome.

    It certainly makes a lot of sense why there's so much weirdness in the ex band member section. If I were those guys and I had as much input as I suspect they may have, only to be constantly berated as just being hired hands.

    Lets be honest. The only two people he still gets along with and plays with occasionally are people who haven't bothered putting out any of their own music. Fink and lohner. Two dudes who seem to be content riding coat tails. (Lohner even jokes about this.)

  3. #543
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    Dude don't get me started on where the fuck is Finck's album

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdean View Post
    Since 2000-ish, you guys say NIN/Trent has sounded the same, and you blame it on Atticus. Atticus meanwhile has done Error, score work, remixes and production work that all sound totally different. Maybe it's Trent that's the problem?

    Or maybe y'all need to quit saying it all sounds the same when you haven't heard the EP yet.
    ... so are we allowed to talk about this or not? because earlier you said it wasn't appropriate, but you're right back at it.

    either way, I don't "blame" atticus, nor do I think there's a "problem," I was just having what I thought was a fun discussion about possible changes in TR's output and whether his way of work (and AR's participation) had something to do with it. Not that I need to prove my credentials, but I'm excited about the EP.

    I'm not being "harsh" on Atticus, or Trent, or anything. I don't even know what the hell that means... I'm just talking about musicians that I'm passionate about and enjoy the music of. Analyzing the development of a musician's style and measuring it against your own aesthetics, especially in terms of having a discussion about their upcoming EP, seems like exactly what message boards are made for. (If I was saying "TR AND AR SUCK" that would be different.)

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by joymode View Post
    Maybe the old music wasnt as much trent as everybody likes to believe. Clouser, dillon. Dare I say Patrick all may have had a heavy influence on NIN. Certainly More than they get credit for.

    Charlie's current music is reminiscent of TDS and fragile era. As well as what little we've heard from Jerome.

    It certainly makes a lot of sense why there's so much weirdness in the ex band member section. If I were those guys and I had as much input as I suspect they may have, only to be constantly berated as just being hired hands.

    Lets be honest. The only two people he still gets along with and plays with occasionally are people who haven't bothered putting out any of their own music. Fink and lohner. Two dudes who seem to be content riding coat tails. (Lohner even jokes about this.)
    Lohner really has such a huge amount of talent. Why didn't he end up in recent APC live or NIN? Makey no sensey to me.

    He freakin made The Outsider even better than it already was (Apocalypse Mix) and made a remix for the first Ashes Divide record that was better than all the album tracks (Denial Waits).

    Yet he's always just there somewhere in the background. What the fawk. Also, Puscifer remix of The Undertaker.

  6. #546
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    He's content with being a sidekick apparently.

  7. #547
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    Can someone explain to me how With Teeth, Year Zero and Ghosts all sound the same because I really don't hear it?
    Last edited by WorzelG; 10-21-2012 at 02:23 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by joymode View Post
    He's content with being a sidekick apparently.
    Fuck that!

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Puscifer remix of The Undertaker.
    Considering that version was released years ahead of Vagina version, I prefer to think that it's the original version of the song (despite the name). And Vagina version is probably a re-recording. Why would there be no Lohner on album version (as per credits) if he co-wrote the song?

  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by joymode View Post
    Maybe the old music wasnt as much trent as everybody likes to believe. Clouser, dillon. Dare I say Patrick all may have had a heavy influence on NIN. Certainly More than they get credit for.

    Charlie's current music is reminiscent of TDS and fragile era. As well as what little we've heard from Jerome.

    It certainly makes a lot of sense why there's so much weirdness in the ex band member section. If I were those guys and I had as much input as I suspect they may have, only to be constantly berated as just being hired hands.

    Lets be honest. The only two people he still gets along with and plays with occasionally are people who haven't bothered putting out any of their own music. Fink and lohner. Two dudes who seem to be content riding coat tails. (Lohner even jokes about this.)
    Clouser joined NIN after TDS had been released, he recently admitted that he did nothing in that album, and he just did some stuff for Starfuckers, the rest of his ideas were not included in The Fragile.



    Patrick left NIN because Trent told him that he would use some of his music for their next album after Broken, which was going to be very "heavy and very guitar oriented, some kind of Broken 2", but then Trent went to the studio and changed his mind and started to play with synths and samplers and decided that Richard's songs didn't fit the tone of the album that he wanted to make, so Patrick left NIN and used his stuff for Filter's first album. He said that he wrote "Hey Man, Nice Shot" for NIN and Trent told him that he liked the song and that they would use it in the album or as a b-side or something, but when TDS changed its direction, Rich realized that he had to form a new band for his own music.

    Just because some of the music made by former band members sometimes sounds like NIN, that doesn't mean that they have actually written music for NIN. Maybe it's the other way around and they just have been influenced by the music that they have been playing live for years. Also it must be the kind of music that they actually like and the kind of music that their fans or employers were asking for.

    Lohner is credited as co-writer for 2 or 3 songs (that's more than Clouser, Vrenna, Finck, Dillon, Wooley, etc), his remixes for other bands are obviously influenced by his work with NIN, and he even produced the first BLB's album that had lots of electronics and a pseudo industrial rock sound similar to NIN's, but he is still in good terms with Trent and has never accussed him of stealing his music or something like that.

    Many ex-members were pissed off and never complained about having done lots of uncredited stuff. And many of them were pissed because they were fired or because they had to leave the band due to their zero imput in the band's music, they wanted to be creative and write some music and they couldn't do it for NIN, so they had to leave.

    -Rich left NIN to form Filter because he couldn't write songs for NIN.

    -Vrenna was fired or left because he wanted to have the same position that Atticus has finally had. He wanted to write and produce for NIN and he couldn't, so he left or was fired by Trent due to his demands.

    -James Wooley was replaced for Clouser, don't know/remember why.

    -Clouser and Lohner were promised to have a very important role on Tapeworm as writers and producers. According to Clouser that's why they didn't leave NIN before. Finck never believed that and this is why he just left to join GNR several times and never gave a shit about Tapeworm.

    -Clouser was pissed for a good while, but now he is in good terms with Trent again afaik. Dillon was fired, and he claimed that Trent promised him that he would produce and support his Nearly album, which Trent denied, I don't know if it's true or not, but he didn't write or produce anything for NIN if I remember well. Vrenna probably hated Trent for many years too, but I recently read that he is following Trent's twitter and viceversa, and when he was asked (having recently quit MM) who was the most problematic musician that he had ever worked with (having worked with Trent, Axl Rose, Corgan or Manson), he answered that it was Manson and not Trent, so maybe he is not that pissed off these days. Patrick one day claims to love Trent and that they are good old friends an the next day claims that Trent is a moron, although as of lately he has been more positive than negative towards Trent. None of them has ever claimed to have done any uncredited work for NIN.

    -These last years Trent is clean and sober, he has been more open minded and I guess that this is why Atticuss has got everything that people like Vrenna, Patrick, Lohnner or Clouser wanted. Atticuss has tons of credits as producer and cowriter and a sideproject with Trent that is actually releasing some music.

    -After all these years, if any former "hired gun" had written or produced lots of uncredited stuff for NIN, I'm pretty sure they would have talked to the press about it like a billion times already and they would have sued Trent's ass (or they are really stupid). And none of them has released an album like TDS to prove that they were the real mastermids behind NIN's music and/or sound. The only one who formed a new band and succeeded was Patrick, and his music is much more rock/guitar oriented and traditional, barely sounds like NIN.
    Last edited by Max Leo; 10-21-2012 at 07:05 AM.

  11. #551
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  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Can someone explain to me how With Teeth, Year Zero and Ghosts all sound the same because I really don't hear it?
    I don't think they do either. The quote that kicked this off:

    Quote Originally Posted by dpeters View Post
    This will sound like heresy but the output from HDTA, TSN, and GWTDT blends together in my ears--with elements from Ghosts and The Slip.

    Hopefully, the talk of "tension" will mean more noticeably dynamic and complex arrangements--not that they need to recreate WITT's wall of guitar, just something that moves around a lot--both in the song and compared to the other material on the EP.
    I agree with that -- HDTA, TSN, GWTDT, Ghosts, and The Slip all sound quite similar to my ears, both sonically and structurally. I specifically exempted both WT and YZ from this comparison:

    Quote Originally Posted by screwdriver View Post
    the thing that I've come to realize is Trent's style is really affected by who is doing the sequencing. With some exceptions (phm, wt) his technique of working is to play a bunch over a loop while its recording, and then whoever was recording picks out the best bits an they go from there. That arranging element (not meaning arrangement in the traditional sense) really impacts the way everything is shaped. Atticus has a very defined aesthetic that works well with TR, but its not heavy on the arrangement complexity.
    Quote Originally Posted by screwdriver View Post
    atticus produced and I'm sure was heavily involved; I'm not really too sure on the stylistic differences in making YZ, most of the press focused on the ARG. it sounds like it was mainly made on laptops, but I remember seeing pictures of Atticus and TR recording in hotel rooms, so I would imagine the process was fairly similar
    I'm sincerely sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. I don't think I'm saying anything that isn't commonly known: Trent's way of working is to record a bunch over loops and then pick out the best bits. That person picking out the best bits changes, but has for the last several years been Atticus. There are some exceptions to this including WT (written song-style, consciously avoiding loop style) and YZ ("a lot of it was improvised" according to what he wrote). Again: I LIKE THE OUTPUT, we were just having a conversation on the direction he's taken -- more textural and less structural.

    I'm interested to see if the HTDA album takes it in a new direction, goes back to song-based WT-style (don't think so), YZ-style, or follows the recent TR-AR trend.
    Last edited by screwdriver; 10-21-2012 at 09:35 AM. Reason: "one more thing"

  13. #553
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    ^^^^yeah, I wasn't referring to one post in particular, I think dpeters did include everything post With Teeth which includes Year Zero which I think is totally different to Ghosts and the scores. I think if you take the scores out of the equation then all you have is Ghosts, and two songs on The Slip and a bit of HTDA as being ambient (bullet man for example is different) moody stuff.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    ^^^^yeah, I wasn't referring to one post in particular, I think dpeters did include everything post With Teeth which includes Year Zero which I think is totally different to Ghosts and the scores. I think if you take the scores out of the equation then all you have is Ghosts, and two songs on The Slip and a bit of HTDA as being ambient (bullet man for example is different) moody stuff.
    bullet man! great point. man, that gestured a really interesting direction that we haven't seen ANY follow-up in. I wonder if that will end up being a stylistic one-off like The Perfect Drug.

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by screwdriver View Post
    bullet man! great point. man, that gestured a really interesting direction that we haven't seen ANY follow-up in. I wonder if that will end up being a stylistic one-off like The Perfect Drug.
    Bloody love that track. I think it probably is a one off though. I've never seen Bullet Man (although I would really love to) but the small bits I've seen seems like some sort of really fast paced insane superhero movie. The theme he wrote sounds as if it fits perfectly into it. Of course I can't really confirm that seeing as I've never seen it but it seems to have been created in that style exclusively for the movie

  16. #556
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    To echo a bit of this thread: When I first heard the intro to American Horror Story I though "hrm.. that sounds kinda like Trent" Then I realized it was Charlie Clouser's work.

    But what's with the constant ragging on people about supposedly having a negative impact on music? The fuck...

  17. #557
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    Something weird happened. I preorder An Omen on the German Amazon website the day it became available there for 23.99 EUR (31.31 USD). Now they say you can register to find out when it will be available on the product site. When I just checked my order it's still there but the price went DOWN to 6.99 EUR (9.13 USD)!!!

  18. #558
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    the price went down. discount everywhere as you can see

    Quote Originally Posted by nine_inch_nerd View Post

  19. #559
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    wow this wasnt what i expected this thread to be.

    good discusions though, especially about the former NIN members. The nin wiki says Wooley left for "family reasons," so whatever it was it must have been a private affair

  20. #560
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    The vinyl is now available on amazon.CA, for my fellow Canadian bacon. Was only available on the .COM site when it was first up. Still a good idea to see what happens with the htda official site orders, though. Maybe they'll have tshirts...
    Last edited by blassster; 10-22-2012 at 06:08 PM.

  21. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANTCOMPLAIN View Post
    Clouser joined NIN after TDS had been released, he recently admitted that he did nothing in that album, and he just did some stuff for Starfuckers, the rest of his ideas were not included in The Fragile.


    thanks for this amazingly detailed post. even having seen the pensado's place with Clouser (I think I might have even done the NIN-spotting for it), I don't think we can completely downplay Clouser's role on the fragile. I believe he's referring to song ideas in this interview, of which only Starfuckers made it on. However, Clouser has been prolifically posting on another message board, including detailing some of the things behind the scenes on the fragile, and he had a considerable influence on its sound. which partially explains why his own scores, etc., have sort of continued in the same direction.

    in other news, November keeps coming closer...

  22. #562
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    What's that mysterious 'another message board'?

  23. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    What's that mysterious 'another message board'?
    That would be the wonderful Gearslutz.com - read this entire thread. Then go explore the rest of the forum, it's got some really wonderful people amongst its userlist.

  24. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANTCOMPLAIN View Post

    Patrick left NIN because Trent told him that he would use some of his music for their next album after Broken, which was going to be very "heavy and very guitar oriented, some kind of Broken 2", but then Trent went to the studio and changed his mind and started to play with synths and samplers and decided that Richard's songs didn't fit the tone of the album that he wanted to make, so Patrick left NIN and used his stuff for Filter's first album. He said that he wrote "Hey Man, Nice Shot" for NIN and Trent told him that he liked the song and that they would use it in the album or as a b-side or something, but when TDS changed its direction, Rich realized that he had to form a new band for his own music.
    Where exactly did you get this from?

    I was an interview hoarder once and all that Rich said was that he played HeyManNiceShot for Trent. Trent then starting making all these suggestions to change it and add things at which point Rich said he knew that he had to go out on his own to realize his vision.

    He did mention in an interview somewhere that he was the one that pushed Trent to push heavier darker material like HLAH because at the time Trent was big on the That's What I get type synth pop.

    BUT this is all very off topic. How To Destroy Angels.. whooo! Omen whooo!

  25. #565
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    Does anyone think we'll get another preview of the EP soon? We've got like what, three weeks left before release? We'd heard half of EP1 before it was released, after all.

  26. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Final Destiny View Post
    Does anyone think we'll get another preview of the EP soon? We've got like what, three weeks left before release? We'd heard half of EP1 before it was released, after all.
    Past experiences do not guarantee future results.

    Hell, The Slip was released in its entirety for free the day it was ready. Does that mean any future NIN album should now be free the day Trent listens to it and says "yeah, sounds good"?

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  28. #568
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    Any word on if there's going to be some special pre-order through the official site? Or should I just order through Amazon?

  29. #569
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    If there's no word on pre ordering it 2 days before it's due out, go to Amazon, otherwise it can't hurt to hold on imo

  30. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Past experiences do not guarantee future results.

    Hell, The Slip was released in its entirety for free the day it was ready. Does that mean any future NIN album should now be free the day Trent listens to it and says "yeah, sounds good"?
    Hey, whoa, I was just putting the possibility forth, chill out. I wasn't making the demand for more HTDA before An Omen's release, just saying that they've done it before with the first EP.

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