12 dead, 59 Injured During Shooting at Dark Knight Rises Premiere

[Magtig]

yeah, I read that article yesterday. Made me think alot about the situation, it does ask alot of good questions, like where he can afford all the equipment and where he learned how to Booby trap his apartment with explosives. Thinking there might be someone else invovled.

I was thinking about posting the article here last night, but from my experience with ETS folks and "natural news" they think it's the biggest quackery website on the internet. Still, I enjoyed the read and it does raise alot of questions.

It almost seems to odd that this guy would invest in all this equipment as though he was ready for a serious fight and then he just hands himself down to Police without a fight and then tells them his apartment is rigged with traps, almost like he DIDN'T want to do it and someone else was invovled.

Oooor... he said something like, "You'll see when you go to my apartment, coppers!" *evil laugh*

Also, if I can learn circuit bending and video editing by watching youtube, someone sure as hell can learn how to booby trap their apartment and build explosives. You really can learn anything with the internets. Maybe not youtube, but I'm sure it's out there. This information isn't new. Ever heard of the anarchist's cookbook?

[Jinsai]

uggggggggh...

So I just stumbled on this "article" that seems to be arguing that this disaster was a government conspiracy, with the end goal of reigniting support for gun control...

I think it's too soon to decide whether or not this shooter was insane, but the jury's out on the crazy asshole who wrote that article.

[Magtig]

Yeah, that's the article that OM posted on the previous page.

[Jinsai]

Yeah, that's the article that OM posted on the previous page.

Whoops.

Well, in response, the article is intentionally misleading and dishonest.
This is the most generous estimation of the costs of his arsenal that I've seen. One estimate I saw had the cost of his equipment coming in at about a quarter of their amount. It's also completely dishonest to say that the weapons and gear are not available to the public... it's convenient that the writer doesn't specify which items were so hard to obtain (maybe because then a more skeptical reader could easily just check for themselves?). Really, do an ebay search for "body armor." You'll find cheap bulletproof vests and used riot gear. Should we give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume he's never heard of Ebay, or should we conclude that he's intentionally being deceptive in order to further sell his crackpot theory?

And even if the total cost of all his gear came out to 20,000 dollars, are we really going to suddenly pretend that's a lot of money, especially for someone who probably knew he was going to go to jail or die in the aftermath.

Then there's the stretch where it's implied that he would need extensive training to pull this off. We can speculate about the apartment bomb trap, but we don't even have specifics about that yet... but is the author actually implying that it's really hard to figure out how to put on the armor and fire a gun?

Additionally, he makes a "point" about how governments are willing to sacrifice their own citizens "routinely" by bringing up examples like Hitler and Stalin.

This article is a load of horseshit.

[DF118]

This article is a load of horseshit.

That site absolutely reeks of scientology. It would not surprise me whatsoever this was a front.

[Magtig]

To further kick the shit out of that stupid article, James Holmes was an honor student. You're going to tell me that guy couldn't figure how to booby trap his home? Or that he couldn't find good prices on armor on eBay? By the way, on that armor thing, many military families buy armor for their children and send it to them because somehow, despite spending more than the next 26 nations below us combined on military shit, they don't supply the troops with what they need. You know what they say, where's there demand..

http://gawker.com/5927911

"He was an honor student, so academically he was at the top of the top. He really distinguished himself from an academic point of view during his four years with us, graduating with highest honors."

[Conan The Barbarian]

http://mashable.com/2012/07/21/batman-visit-victims/

Good idea or inappropriate?

[miss k bee]

http://mashable.com/2012/07/21/batman-visit-victims/

Good idea or inappropriate?

Totally rubbish idea.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-prison.html

genetic mental illness?

[Amaro]

Crazy... I found out that a friend of mine knows Sam Yowler, girlfriend of Matt McQuinn, who is said to have saved both the life of Sam and her brother by guarding them from the line of fire on their isle, when James Holmes was shooting down it. Matt is one of the 12 who died.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.

Um, how he afforded the gear is a pretty interesting question, and I'm sure we'll know more as details follow investigation and trial. Where that $20,000 figure is coming from is also, um, and interesting question, inre: that article.

The rest of the bullshit at that link, posted by notorious crankpot Mike Adams of his crank kingdom Natural News, ally/lackey of Alex Jones and Infowars, is utterly preposterous. Mike Adams couldn't add one and one to make two even if he was cheating off someone else's homework.

I think it's too soon to decide whether or not this shooter was insane, but the jury's out on the crazy asshole who wrote that article.

Mike Adams already kinda has his own thread here at ETS:
http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...-of-Extinction

[slave2thewage]

Apparently Westboro is protesting the funerals of the victims. Since Old Fred is probably at death's door, can someone go to Topeka when he finally kicks the bucket and sing my parody of their parody of Telephone? It's called Skullfuck and about raping his corpse once the family have left the grave.

[themethatyouknow]

I've been seeing a surprisingly large number of people echoing the sentiment that the situation could have been avoided if there were armed people in the theater, and this sums up my immediate reaction to that pretty succinctly... although you can add the concern that this audience had additionally been blasted with tear gas.

Some people are so heavily invested in the argument that "the solution to gun violence is more guns" that they don't even rationally consider the situation.

The view that more guns is the answer isn't only idiotic, it also ignores the reality of Colorado gun laws. Concealed weapons permits are widely available and easy to get here. There was absolutely nothing preventing a bunch of gun toting would-be heroes from being in that theater and killing this guy. It didn't happen, not because laws prohibit it, but because that sort of thing is just a fantasy. It never actually works in real life. Partly because of all the confusion in the immediacy of the situation, and partly because the macho redneck heroes of the world get just as fucking scared as everyone else in those situations.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Also because the shooter's being preceded by tear gas makes things a bit more difficult than just whipping it out and saying "BANG BANG MOTHERFUCKER!" in addition to the other very human qualities that affect people in these wholly unexpected stressful situations in the dark, ten minutes into a Batman movie in a filled-to-capacity panicked movie theater.

[Conan The Barbarian]

The new York post went ahead and nicknamed him the joker. I hate the media.

[jessamineny]

The new York post went ahead and nicknamed him the joker. I hate the media.

The New York Post is sensationalistic. That's it's thing. Just like Fox News paints its broadcasts with a conservative brush.

Learn to be discriminating.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

And just like Fox News, the New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

[WorzelG]

The view that more guns is the answer isn't only idiotic, it also ignores the reality of Colorado gun laws. Concealed weapons permits are widely available and easy to get here. There was absolutely nothing preventing a bunch of gun toting would-be heroes from being in that theater and killing this guy. It didn't happen, not because laws prohibit it, but because that sort of thing is just a fantasy. It never actually works in real life. Partly because of all the confusion in the immediacy of the situation, and partly because the macho redneck heroes of the world get just as fucking scared as everyone else in those situations.

Not according to Mike Adams of Natural News who should be in the Marines apparently. This guy is such a twat

http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_Ja..._shooting.html

[henryeatscereal]

Crazy Son of a Bitch

[Sutekh]

Sounds like a tedious wanker! Wooo I'm the joker. Zzzzz. Messiah complex, except he's pumped full of pop culture so he pretends to be the joker instead of jesus. Just like that snuff video guy, it would be mundane if he hadnt resorted to murder to prop up his fantasy

[marodi]

How about instead of this sparking a debate on gun control, it sparks a debate on mental health care?

EDIT: I just found this article and everyone in this thread should read it.

How about this finally wakes up people on the merits of having much much severe gun control laws so that those with mental health problems have more difficulties getting access to them before they are diagnosed and get the help they desperately need?

Very interesting article, by the way.

[Wretchedest]

Ive had this theory that at some point during the shooting he had a sudden sense of remorse or regret, faced with the horrific reality of what he had doen, which would explain his complacent attitude upon being caught, and maybe his current silent shocked attituse...

[Amaro]

I don't know at what point, but apparently one of his guns jammed...

Anyhow, I really don't know what to make of his latest behavior. It was reported he was acting crazy in his cell...spitting about...now, this overall look in court... Drugged/Sedated, shocked, tired, psychotic, or acting...?

Edit: After viewing enough, I'd put my money on him being on something in this court footage. Gotta be. I'm pretty sure I see his pupils even dilated.

[Elke]

Anyhow, I really don't know what to make of his latest behavior. It was reported he was acting crazy in his cell...spitting about...now, this overall look in court... Drugged/Sedated, shocked, tired, psychotic, or acting...?

If he was acting violently after the shooting chances are pretty good he was psychotic, in which case they probably have him on some strong antipsychotics, which actually makes perfect sense. Psychosis is a medical problem, much like having the flue or stomach aches, so if there's medication to help fix that problem, he probably should get it.

On a side-note, I find it quite upsetting that the whole mental health issue is not really being debated properly. It reminds me of a Belgian case a couple of years ago where a young man entered a daycare center and killed some children and caretakers, and the issue of his mental health was framed in the media as a cop-out or a way to escape his due punishment. I get the public's lack of understanding, but I hate it when the media go all-out populist and feed into the bullshit instead of taking time to explain what certain diagnosis could mean and how that would effect judgement.

[WorzelG]

I recall his mum seemed pretty resigned to the fact that her son did this, which makes you wonder if he was on someone's radar but didn't get treatment for whatever reason.

The thing you mention above about mental illness, I think people just need to be reassured that if someone is violently psychotic, help them by all means, but just don't release them into society unless it's controlled. Also people get more upset when children are attacked because they are so vulnerable, same with the elderly

[Sutekh]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

[themethatyouknow]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

I think I'll stick with the spree killers.

Seriously, that kind of screening would never work because the inexperienced students doing the evaluations would be so afraid of letting one slip through the cracks, that they'd flag way too many kids. Then you'd have such a long list of potential suspects that there would be no viable way to monitor them. Unless you plan on just sending them all away. In which case, again I think we're better off with the occasional mass murder.

[Wretchedest]

I know quite a few people with some form of psychosis. I've personally had to commit a few of them and it was absolutely a nightmare the whole way through.
I don't know that his guy is like that. The people I knew were disfunctional the moment their episodes started, and they certainly would not have been competent enough to do the sort of planning and rigging that he did. I'll admit that some of his behaviour does resemble that, but on the other hand it just seems odd that he would go even a few days into a psychotic episode and nobody would notice or do anything.

[Elke]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

It wouldn't work. First of all, because 'spree killers' are only named 'spree killers' because that's what they do. Despire what Criminal Minds wants you to believe, not every spree killer has the same pathology. Secondly because your brain isn't formed fully before you're 18 (sometimes up to 21) and so you cannot make a diagnosis of any of the personality disorders, including sociopathic personality disorder which is most commonly linked to spree killers. And thirdly, like themethatyouknow said, because we'll just have a fuckload of false positives because most teenagers actually are little psychopaths.

[ManBurning]

Saw this on my news feed in facebook, the poster never gave a link or anything to this, but thought I would add it in here.

‎"3 arrested in separate US 'Dark Knight' incident

This undated photograph released by the Maine State Police shows weapons gathered from the home and vehicle of Timothy Courtois, of Biddeford, Maine, who was arrested Sunday, July 22, 2012 on charges of having a concealed weapon and speeding on the Maine Turnpike. Found in his car were an assault weapon, four handguns and several boxes of ammunition. A search of his home revealed several additional weapons, including a machine gun, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Courtois told authorities he was on his way to Derry, N.H., to shoot a former employer. He also said he had attended the Batman movie the previous night. (AP Photo/Maine State Police)
At least 3 men accused of making threats during or after watching the new Batman movie have been arrested in separate incidents, underscoring U.S. moviegoers' anxieties and heightened security in the wake of a deadly mass shooting at a Colorado thea...tre showing the film.
Moviegoers in Sierra Visa, Arizona, panicked when a man who appeared intoxicated was confronted during a showing of the movie. The Cochise County Sheriff's office said it caused "mass hysteria" and about 50 people fled the theatre.
Michael William Borboa, 27, was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct, and threatening and intimidating.
A Maine man was arrested when he told authorities that he was on his way to shoot a former employer a day after watching "The Dark Knight Rises," Maine state police said Monday.
Timothy Courtois of Biddeford, Maine, had been stopped for speeding, and a police search of his car found an AK-47 assault weapon, four handguns, ammunition and news clippings about the mass shooting that left 12 people dead early Friday, authorities said.
In Southern California, a man at a Sunday afternoon showing of the film was arrested after witnesses said he made threats and alluded to the Colorado shooting when the movie didn't start.
Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies were called to a cinema complex in Norwalk after moviegoers said 52-year-old Clark Tabor shouted: "I should go off like in Colorado." They said he then asked: "Does anybody have a gun?"
A security guard saw Tabor with a backpack on his knees in the second row, but deputies who searched the bag, the theatre and its surrounding area did not find any weapon."



The Article then went on to talk about the box office numbers of the film etc and I found that rathr innapropriate for this thread so I omitted that part.

So my question then is... Why is this movie making people go ballistic? Are there some cryptic messages or something deep within the movie? I haven't seen it, so I have no idea.

[october_midnight]

Nope. This type of shit happens everywhere every day. Since it happened at a big blockbuster movie, the media will only mention the stories from the same movie for the next few months. Nothing new. Thought that was pretty easily figured out.