Controversial Music Opinions...

[Sutekh]

I'll get the ball rolling...

Randy Rhoads was not that good. Yes he was a great player, but it's cartoon heavy metal, it sounds silly & tacky. Only the bad taste bastards of the metal world would think that neo classical rock is a good idea (just the term makes me wince).

Bob Dylan... so fucking what? Don't get it. Some stuff I don't get but I see the appeal. Not Bob.

The Clash were just middle class chancers making pop rock and are only so big because most people don't want to be challenged, but like the idea that they are. I say this as a fan of the clash! But the idea they were punk is bullshit... they were a pub rock band who pretended to be angry interested in politics and social issues because that's what constituted the latest fad at the time

A friend of mine once said that if Corrosion of Conformity had released "Load" instead of Metallica, it would be hailed as a classic - spot on. Not a massive fan of Load but it gets unfairly slagged

The Beatles = overrated. And before anyone (not that I have you lot pegged as bastards, but slagging the beatles usually gets a bad response) gets all pompous, tells me I am a bad person or stupid for not liking them and lectures me on how important they are to the development of pop music (really?! no shit. wow you must have watched television or read a paper at least once or twice to gain such an insight, I am in awe), I know - and I do like them. But for me the myth is as powerful as the music - that's why, when you say they are overrated, people always refer to the band's place in history rather than the music itself. they didn't invent beat pop, they didn't invent psychedelia, they didn't invent rock music or heavy metal... let it be!!!

Mastodon's drummer is so good he's shit - ditto Steve Vai. But only virginal bedroom guitar heroes stick up for Vai so maybe that's not so controversial

[aggroculture]

Bob Dylan=can't stand the man, though I get why he was influential/important.

The Beatles=not overrated at all. Best band ever in so many ways. It's the Rolling Stones I can't stand. They have a few good songs, but I just can't fucking stand them most of the time.

My controversial opinions:

Slayer=overrated as fuck.

Iron Maiden=ghastly, horrible band who rip off Queen without ever realizing that Freddy Mercury was having a laugh and not taking himself seriously. All music that descends from Iron Maiden (power metal) makes me cringe.

Stephen Malkmus=horrible.

Limp Bizkit=awesome.

[Sutekh]

oooo...

I will go out on a limb and say LB have an album's worth of good songs
I need a shower now

edit - TOOL! Never got it. Love APC but Tool sends me to sleep. Just don't get it... really feel like I should

I always hated Green Day but I quite like American Idiot & tbh it's a pretty coherent & a decent premise for a concept album. They still leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I can't deny i enjoyed that one

[Minpin]

Maynards voice sickens me, like I've literally got an aversion to it. Generally speaking my reaction to singers is either like or indifference, but theres something about Maynard's voice that irritates the shit out of me.

I love Bob Dylan, but having said that I do sometimes think Townes was better (totally that old controversial Steve Earle - stand on Bobs coffee table in his cowboy boots...) either way they are both phenomenal (as is Steve Earle ;))

[Harry Seaward]

TOOL! Never got it. Love APC but Tool sends me to sleep. Just don't get it... really feel like I should


Maynards voice sickens me, like I've literally got an aversion to it. Generally speaking my reaction to singers is either like or indifference, but theres something about Maynard's voice that irritates the shit out of me.


This is not the place for me.

http://i.imgur.com/1saJ5.gif

[october_midnight]

Personally, I'd say that once you reach a certain age or understanding of music, a dislike of someone shouldn't be labeled as 'controversial'. To beat the dead horse some more...look at Marilyn Manson. Loved...L O V E D his earlier stuff but he let himself go and his work has blatantly suffered as result of it. Can't stand him now and often wonder how I could at one point. I chalk it up to being a teenager though, and am grateful that it was a gateway of sorts to better music.

Personally I can't stand Limp Bizkit but am fully aware that some people do. I always found the 'bro rock' bands to be cliche as hell but whatever floats your boat. Agreed on Slayer. Whereas I wouldn't say they're overrated, I can probably get through about 2 songs max before switching to something else. Also agreed on Iron Maiden. I get what they've done for metal but I can't get in to them.

[Sutekh]

Personally, I'd say that once you reach a certain age or understanding of music, a dislike of someone shouldn't be labeled as 'controversial'.

Aah...not sure if I've caught what you mean (hungover, foggy), but labelling something "controversial" doesn't necessarily betray a lack of insight or maturity - the intention of the thread isn't "list bands you hate"... If you dislike something widely hailed or love something similarly reviled, this typically stokes controversy - it has nothing to do with the maturity or knowledge of the person making the comment - the controversial value is dictated by how occasionally unable the public are to just accept a difference of opinion without calling into question how well informed the judgement is. The maturity of everyone else is the issue, in fact! Case in point - this is the ONLY place ON EARTH where I have slagged off the Beatles and people haven't pissed their pants and cast aspersions on my character

On the subject of our Brian... Eat Me Drink Me is better than anything after holy wood. The EMDM shows I saw were better than the Holy Wood shows too... shouldn't be true, but I can't lie to myself!

[Space Suicide]

Let's see...

I'll echo the initial poster's post on The Beatles to every letter in it.

I find U2 to be overrated junk that has a few good songs but it is mostly due to over hype by media. Sad thing is, I mostly blame their over hype on Bono.

I believe that when everyone jerks off to Metallica's yesteryears (aka Kill 'em All to ...And Justice for All) for being the best of the best I will slag you off. Every band in the 'Core Four' are way better than Metallica by a long shot (Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax).

Bob Dylan is a boring man to listen to. I appreciate and like his lyrical work but as for him performing songs...call me, I'll be asleep.

I fucking absolutely LOVE Tom Waits but let's face, the guy sucks at singing. He's fucking terrible. I love him though. <3

[Minpin]

Personally, I'd say that once you reach a certain age or understanding of music, a dislike of someone shouldn't be labeled as 'controversial'. To beat the dead horse some more...look at Marilyn Manson. think you've totally missed the point, but outside of the Manson thread I really don't think hating on Manson would by any stretch be called controversial these days...

[october_midnight]

Again, it all depends on who you're talking to I guess...which was sort of my point. In the MM thread, saying you think he's terrible now could be 'controversial' but in a group of people who share the same opinion it'd be agreed upon. Maybe the more concise way to say what I was trying to get out was that in a medium such as music, disliking an artist for whatever reason, no matter how popular they are (i.e. The Beatles) isn't really controversial to me. Some people love them, some people can't stand them. I for one love Tom Waits, and the fact that he has such a beaten-down old man voice is part of the charm...he knows how he sounds and doesn't care. Some people can't stand him. I find neither opinion controversial.

[hobochic]

Morrissey & solo projects: It's shit, I don't like the man or the music, I've tried but never had an Aha-moment with it, any of it. If anyone has one of those Aha-moment songs to convert me, please try.

I saw him at Coachella 99 or 00 and got sick of his dandy-like stage persona taking off his shirt and twisting the sweat down on the dorks in the "pit". Disgusting. Convert me.

[Minpin]

Again, it all depends on who you're talking to I guess...which was sort of my point. In the MM thread, saying you think he's terrible now could be 'controversial' but in a group of people who share the same opinion it'd be agreed upon. Maybe the more concise way to say what I was trying to get out was that in a medium such as music, disliking an artist for whatever reason, no matter how popular they are (i.e. The Beatles) isn't really controversial to me. Some people love them, some people can't stand them. I for one love Tom Waits, and the fact that he has such a beaten-down old man voice is part of the charm...he knows how he sounds and doesn't care. Some people can't stand him. I find neither opinion controversial. for the purpose of this thread, think controversial in terms of going against a "general" consensus

EDIT: also why specifically music? From your reasoning doesn't sound like anything could be controversial...

[Sutekh]

The point is to ascertain some opinions on music you have that will inspire popular butthurt. You'll always find someone who has contrary feelings, not denying that possiblity, but rationally you have to acknowledge there are such things as popularly held opinions, and making statements that aren't aligned with those opinions will most likely stoke controversy. It's always fun to read people's insane opinions! Anthrax better than Metallica... I actually sucked air through my teeth when I read that! Good stuff

You know exactly what I mean now confess guilty pleasures and slaughter some sacred cows!

Pearl Jam were shit... also Chris Cornell is so phony it makes me cringe

Dunno if you guys know the Manic Street Preachers, but Know Your Enemy was one of their 3 best albums IMO. Absolutely baffled by its bad reputation, best thing they'd done since Holy Bible or Everything Must Go

[peter]

Tom Waits - I can "hear" why his music is appreciated, but it has never really touched me. Just some drunk growling to bad coumtry music.

Pink Floyd - In terms of songwriting and dynamics, nothing gets past them, but most of their music sounds so thin and distant, never really got it.

Ministry - Tried so many times to get into them, I don't know if it's Al's voice or their music, just doesn't happen.

Converge/Dillinger Escape Plan - Any --core music for me is gut music not "head" music.

[aggroculture]

Tom Waits: can't stand him or understand what others see in him.

Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon is one of the most blah records ever. A snoozefest.

Dillinger: awesome. Converge: live great, on record a total bore. I literally get bored after a few minutes.

U2: They do have some great songs, but on the whole are totally overrated.

Metallica: I get that they were so influential etc, but I don't really care. I admit I liked the black album for a week in the early 90s, and I also admit that I sometimes hear old Metallica on the radio and go "hmm, that sounds alright." But for the most part I don't get Metallica worship at all, don't get what the all fuss is about. Seen them live and, whatever, neither bad nor good. I own Master of Puppets and every time I've listened to it it does absolutely nothing for me, it's just annoying. Hetfield's vocals are stupid and annoying. Maybe what I am hearing on the radio is ...And Justice for All.

Lou Reed: ugh.

Morrissey, on the other hand, I love: check these awesome numbers out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nAMFWDuDEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qgn1Rc0YJ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxytHNZ35Ow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ8IRLScl3M

[hobochic]

Morrissey, on the other hand, I love: check these awesome numbers out:


Thanks for trying to convert me. To be honest, I have to admit that "First of the gang to die" is an awesome song. I've heard it of course many times before and liked it, but it's probably the only song that I like by him. As for the other ones, I think the first one "the more you ignore me" is the reason for why i think Morrissey is a douche. It sounds like a toothpaste/dandruff jingle, and a bad one at that. The third one "the world" has that aura of something that sounds as if it might turn good at any moment, but it doesn't, at all. Major turnoff. The last one sounds like someones uncle taking karaoke lessons.

[Necrodoommonkey]

John Lennon was overrated. Paul was the better singer/songwriter.
David Gilmour > Roger Waters
Tool and APC suck

[spegettiwestern]

I was really turned off by most of this thread because I love just about everything and have always had a really open mind, but looking at the last comment really made me think about just how much I really don't like Roger Waters material. Everyone knows his dad died in World War II I don't want to listen to decades of music about the same shit. I definitely really never got into his voice and truthfully I think The Wall is the least pleasing of all Floyd's material.

Gilmour is so much more impressive in a myriad of ways. I love Barrett-era Floyd, too, but Gilmour's writing and guitar work are the most penetrating pieces of the groups material, I think.


Also: I think it's universally agreed that Paul was always the most talented of the Beatles, however, John Lennon really made huge efforts to push the boundaries and develop sounds that were relatively obsolete in that era of music.

[Sutekh]

yeah "The Wall" stands alone... totally different to early kooky psych floyd and glacial 70s prog floyd. The first alternative rock album maybe? Some say first Waters solo album but I think it still has the vestiges of floyd

It really ruins me to say this... but really gone off floyd in recent years, hardly ever listen. And as a teen I was a maniac for it... I remember the first time I heard dark side from start to finish, i actually sat up until 10am listening to it... I could just close my eyes and frankly trip balls because the music fired my imagination and emotions so much

But now? Dunno... seems a bit ponderous and self-important. It galls me to write that, I wish things were different!

[BlueCalx]

Love this thread.

I think it's interesting, hobochic, that you're still seeking conversion after having seen most of what Morrissey has to offer and still not feeling it. I'm still a pretty big Morrissey fan, I've heard the vast majority of what he's published and, honestly, if you find the music uninteresting, you're totally correct. It's bland, pedestrian rock music as played by a band of middle-aged men who would be gigging at pubs and bar mitzvahs if not for their friendship with Moz, and it's a whole lot of Morrissey's love-it-or-hate-it personality. You're still trying, though, so you must be seeing some value in his music. I'll take a different tact in trying to convert you. People like Morrissey because, as a songwriter, he has a gift for writing lyrics that are broadly, deeply relatable while being vague enough to be open to vastly different interpretations. His songs are very rarely autobiographical, they're about wheelchair-bound geniuses, faded boxers, glamourous gangsters, British nationalists, guilt-ridden priests, and other compelling characters. He writes with an almost supernatural level of empathy, an empathy which is all the more interesting when seen in light of the man's surly, narcissistic personality. Morrissey is not dissimilar to the Jack Nicholson character in As Good As It Gets - a nasty, bitter little man who can only see all the beauty in the world through his art. If that paradox fascinates you, you'll get a lot of mileage out of Morrissey. If all you can see is the boring music and the vain prick singer, look elsewhere. The world's full of good music and Morrissey's got enough fans.

[BlueCalx]

As for my controversial opinions, here goes:

Grunge was totally worthless from Nirvana on down. It's '80s college rock but with major label cheesemeister production, as played by jerkoffs with unbearable rock god messiah complexes. If you can read Kurt Cobain's journals and still think that he's a cool guy, you've got a stronger stomach than me and I just wrote a paragraph-long post about my love of Morrissey, ferchrissake.

Rage Against the Machine were inferior to Limp Bizkit.

Dinosaur bands like the Pixies or My Bloody Valentine who want to tour endlessly without ever bringing out new material need to hang it the fuck up.

Aggressive, bro-ey dubstep in the vein of Skrillex is totally awesome. I like the introspective, ambient stuff too, but I love the booming wubs at clubs and parties.

Of course the Beatles are great, but so is Frank Sinatra. Both are talented artists who were enormously influential, and who have no purchase at all on contemporary pop culture. If you call yourself a music fan at all, it's important for you to hear this stuff, but there's no point in trying to force yourself to have a relationship with that music that's like the one your parents or your grandparents had with it. Appreciate it for what it is but live in 2012, not a retro hipster fantasyland version of the '60s. Also, in the case of the Beatles, the music is so ubiquitous as background noise that to say you like their songs is a lot like saying you enjoy breathing air. Saying "I hate the Beatles" is either just straight-up trolling or moderately interesting cocktail party small talk.

[spegettiwestern]

Not sure why I didn't recall this earlier but I think Radiohead is pretty shitty. I've listened to every album a few times, whether forced to after announcing how boring I think they are or just out of curiosity for being the only person I know that isn't into it. I really don't get why they're regarded so highly.

I'm pretty much all alone for that one, I think, but I just feel that everything they do is mind-numbingly tiresome from the vocals, lyrics, to the production, etc. But everyone else thinks so highly of this band that my complaints are typically drowned out with their boring rants about how Thom Yorke's a musical genius or something.

[Sutekh]

I absolutely love Amnesiac (which everyone seems to hate), and think Kid A & OK Computer are really good albums with very thick atmosphere. But yeah outside of that they bore me as well to be honest! It's really odd, they were shit hot at the turn of the century but zzzz before and after

people are writhing in pain at all this

[spegettiwestern]

That Radiohead cover band, Muse sounds better than Radiohead to me.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Not sure why I didn't recall this earlier but I think Radiohead is pretty shitty. I've listened to every album a few times, whether forced to after announcing how boring I think they are or just out of curiosity for being the only person I know that isn't into it. I really don't get why they're regarded so highly.

I'm pretty much all alone for that one, I think, but I just feel that everything they do is mind-numbingly tiresome from the vocals, lyrics, to the production, etc. But everyone else thinks so highly of this band that my complaints are typically drowned out with their boring rants about how Thom Yorke's a musical genius or something.

This.

This band makes me want to puke. I gave them a shot, but ended up wanting to shoot myself.

[pigpen]

Pink Floyd is better than Led Zeppelin.
In fact, Led Zeppelin is boring as all hell.. I don't know for sure how most people feel about them, but I just don't care.


Holywood is better than Antichrist...

James Brown was better before the "godfather of soul" era.

Jane Doe is not that great, IMO, You Fail Me is far superior.

Calculating Infinity Is boring compared to Miss Machine

Metallica's "old stuff" may be just as, if not more, boring than there later albums..

Leonard Cohen sucks

Thelonious Monk sucks

The majority of Primus albums are shit... they are pretty awesome live though!

Chronic 2001 is WAY better than The Chronic.

NWA sucks

Tupac sucks, Hologram mode was creepy.

Billie Holiday is better than Ella Fitzgerald and Etta James combined.



...There's more, I'm sure. Feels good to let it out!!!

[Space Suicide]

This.

This band makes me want to puke. I gave them a shot, but ended up wanting to shoot myself.

To be fair it takes time to like or appreciate what Radiohead creates. I enjoy them but it literally took years for me to even begin to like them.

I do think they're horribly overrated though and I think the King of Limbs sucks.

[AvelineCyborg]

Not sure why I didn't recall this earlier but I think Radiohead is pretty shitty. I've listened to every album a few times, whether forced to after announcing how boring I think they are or just out of curiosity for being the only person I know that isn't into it. I really don't get why they're regarded so highly.

I'm pretty much all alone for that one, I think, but I just feel that everything they do is mind-numbingly tiresome from the vocals, lyrics, to the production, etc. But everyone else thinks so highly of this band that my complaints are typically drowned out with their boring rants about how Thom Yorke's a musical genius or something.

You're not alone, trust me. I really don't get it either. I like only 3 songs from them which are Creep, Karma Police and Paranoid Android. If their stuff sounded like those songs more often I might dig them. Unless there's an awesome album of theirs I've overlooked. It's true that I probably haven't really given them a fair chance (sounds like you really have).

So far this thread has touched upon ones I agree with such as Iron Maiden, U2, Tool and others. One I can think of right now that I think is vastly overrated is Guns N' Roses. I really don't get their appeal especially considering what Axl Rose has become in recent years. With him alone I can hardly take this band seriously.

[DVYDRNS]

Oh here we go.

Hows this for controversial...

I think Post Fragility era trent reznor music is over rated as hell. its not good. Those soundtracks.. yea give me a few months worth of living expenses and whatever instruments i want... I could have done those. no problem. and I'm sure many here could have done the same. He is not innovative. and don't get me started on the slip. Disgusting pile of trash. Embarrassing. And HTDA is crap. I wish Atticus would spend his time on something good... like a full length Error record...

Look at reznors Spotify playlists. they are stuck in the past. He refuses to be inspired by current artists. He was better when he took inspiration from his peers. whether he considered himself to be ripping them off or not... he was better then. I keep hoping he gets it back, and i still see moments of hope with things like the immigrant song and tetsuo. but overall i'm disappointed continually.

I downloaded the Niggy Tardust record. and it sucked. Then I downloaded the instrumental version, and it was awesome. I'm sure only because it was leftovers from Fragile music.
Tool is a band full of members who don't give a crap about whats good anymore. only whats technical. they all sit around in studio jerking off and recording it, and their fans are the most obnoxious people in the world who fall for it every time. The only thing I like about tool is I'm pretty sure they're fully aware of it and get a huge kick out of the fact that they've gotten away with it this long and are still making money off of it.

Cortini isn't that good. Unless he's remixing something.

TR Screwed up bad when he lost his connection with Clouser.

Radiohead... Oh jeeze... how over rated can this band get... why are people still talking about this band...

Bands like M83 and Big Black Delta and A Place to Bury Strangers are far more inventive than the reznor camp of today. Which only makes sense, because they are younger and allow themselves to be inspired by their peers. they aren't lazy. They want to be better than everybody else. and that causes them to push boundaries.

Switching Gears.

Lady Gaga... Anybody who's a fan of this music is a slave.


You might ask why I'm on this board anymore... because i grew up here i guess. I was here first. ;)

[Ryan]

Thanks for trying to convert me. To be honest, I have to admit that "First of the gang to die" is an awesome song. I've heard it of course many times before and liked it, but it's probably the only song that I like by him. As for the other ones, I think the first one "the more you ignore me" is the reason for why i think Morrissey is a douche. It sounds like a toothpaste/dandruff jingle, and a bad one at that. The third one "the world" has that aura of something that sounds as if it might turn good at any moment, but it doesn't, at all. Major turnoff. The last one sounds like someones uncle taking karaoke lessons.

I'm a huge Morrissey fan. If these ones don't float your boat you're a lost cause:

My Dearest Love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BenhJELQx7s

Lost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxNJi40nuF4

Life Is A Pigsty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTqo2DrMCOw

I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_udTsH8WEDU

Black Cloud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSo9jm-yr4Q

Christian Dior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XysTW4jSIg

[pigpen]

^
That WAS controversial! I agree for the most part, except for With Teeth. Everything else, meh. Ghosts Especially. I suck, and I could have made it. A lot of the art that came with that was pretty boring too.

[Space Suicide]

Yeah, Ghosts bores me. I own it but haven't touched it since I got it, back in 2008.

[wizfan]

Look at reznors Spotify playlists. they are stuck in the past. He refuses to be inspired by current artists.


Actually, he does listen to some current stuff. Most of the "oldies" playlists were played before the concerts. Check out his "current driving music" playlist, there's a LOT of contemporary stuff such as Simian Mobile Disco, SBTRKT, Tobacco and even Foster the fucking People.

Okay, here's my controversial opinion: I love Korn. Almost everything they've done, I love to bits (except a few albums I disliked a lot, such as Untouchables). And I looooved their last two releases.

Also, I love St. Anger. I know it's bad. I know WHY it's bad. I've seen the documentary. But I still love it for what it is.

I dislike Madonna. Not because she's super-famous or anything, I don't care at all about her celebrity status, but I never really got into her stuff.

Aerosmith. They do have some good tunes, but Steven Tyler is shit.

I love Audioslave.

King Diamond always sounded to me like a drunk Rob Halford.

I love Isis, they have some excellent tracks, but I cannot listen to any of their albums in one sitting without losing my focus. Ditto for Neurosis.

I can't get into old, "classic" heavy metal stuff. Ditto for many "classic rock" stuff. Yeah, I know a lot of the bands I listen to suck hard. But sometimes, I find "bad" music to be much more interesting than stuff everybody loves. And sometimes I just want incredibly dumb and loud stuff, like Excision.

And one more thing: James Blake? He sucks. Most overrated artist of the decade.

Whoa, that felt good.

[Ryan]

I love Isis, they have some excellent tracks, but I cannot listen to any of their albums in one sitting without losing my focus. Ditto for Neurosis.


Really? Opposite for me; I can't not listen to their albums in their entirety. They put me into a trance; especially Wrists Of Kings up to Garden Of Light. Eargasm galore.

[piggy]

To hobochic, I would recommend the following Morrissey tracks...

For a good time: "Glamorous Glue", "The Last of The Famous International Playboys"
For melting your heart: "Now My Heart Is Full", "You Should Have Been Nice To Me"
Just plain nice to listen to: "Everyday Is Like Sunday", "Jack The Ripper"

[PooPooMeowChow]

I am really sick right now but

I kinda like Audioslave

[wizfan]

Really? Opposite for me; I can't not listen to their albums in their entirety. They put me into a trance; especially Wrists Of Kings up to Garden Of Light. Eargasm galore.

I guess I should give them more extensive and careful listens.

[Space Suicide]

I am really sick right now but

I kinda like Audioslave

I don't get the hate at all. Audioslave are awesome, I think I was one of the few who were dismayed when they announced their end.

[Ryan]

To hobochic, I would recommend the following Morrissey tracks...

For a good time: "Glamorous Glue", "The Last of The Famous International Playboys"
For melting your heart: "Now My Heart Is Full", "You Should Have Been Nice To Me"
Just plain nice to listen to: "Everyday Is Like Sunday", "Jack The Ripper"


And for sheer unsurpassed lyrical brilliance, Maladjusted -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBORqna0VhM




And, my personal favorite Moz track of all time, Ammunition -

I know these roads; an old hand understands. Above all, I know what's expected of me now, veering cliffwards. I don't need more ammunition, I've got more than I can spend. I don't dwell on things I'm missing. I'm just pleased with the things I've found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WTfKkhtQTo

[BRoswell]

yea give me a few months worth of living expenses and whatever instruments i want... I could have done those.

Go for it. I want to see someone actually do this instead of brag about how they could make a better record. :D


He refuses to be inspired by current artists.

And then you mention these guys...


M83 and Big Black Delta and A Place to Bury Strangers

...who are obviously inspired by past artists instead of current ones? Please.

My controversial opinions:

Shitty bands and artists have always existed. MTV brought them into our homes for us to see, and social media has brought us even closer to them. The idea that there are more shitty bands and artists today then there were back in "the good ol' days" is a myth.

Rap music has been polluted by the "gangsta" mentality. Give me rappers who talk about real issues, joke around, or even do both at the same time. You can keep your cash, your bling, and your bitches.

Dubstep. I...don't get the appeal, especially when techno is so much better.

I hate the idea of having to hate a band just because they became popular. I like a lot of popular bands, and I like a lot of obscure bands. As long as the music is good and makes you feel something, why should the level of popularity bother anyone?

[DVYDRNS]

Pay me a few months of living expenses and I will do it as I pointed out. And I didn't say it would be better. I said I could do something of the same caliber. But nobody would care because I'm not Trent reznor...

And the other bands I've mentioned... They are obviously inspired by past bands. That's not an issue. But they take what's current and build upon it. They are far more exciting than anything Trent's doing.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Chris Cornell has an okay voice in a very 1990s-alt-rock vein, but he's never in his career played to material that could put it to any kind of good use. Every band he's been in has the smell and taste of old boots netted in shit-foul sewage at the reclamation plant, and his solo material so uninspired and just so plodding it's a wonder anyone even still cares who the guy is at all. Part of this may stem from Cornell's not being a particularly good or interesting musician, another part's probably the problem of his lyrics (he could score third place in my high school talent show, maybe), and certainly his awful taste in music is a significant contributor. It also doesn't help that there's zero emotion in any of those moments where he's swinging for the fences.

Metallica? Man, it's not even controversial to talk shit about Metallica at all. They have an okay album, their first, and everything thereafter has been a waste of time. I know some people argue they've taken up the metal torch with gusto lately, but they haven't, and the people making these claims should be ignored as unworthy of attention.

It's a sweet mercy that I don't ever hear the name (or music of) 'Tori Amos' any more.

[PooPooMeowChow]

I don't get the hate at all. Audioslave are awesome, I think I was one of the few who were dismayed when they announced their end.

Cornell's lyrics in Audioslave are laughable and almost nonsensical. He voice isn't as good as it was in Soundgarden, I think he blew it some time in the mid 90's.
They also really over produced. almost no life in any of the songs.
I really like Audioslave cause I get to hear the Rage band stretch their legs and do something different, they're real talented. Cornell just drops the ball.

I can only hope the new Soundgarden album doesn't ruin my favorite bands perfect discography.

[Iran_Ed]

Oh here we go.

Hows this for controversial...

I think Post Fragility era trent reznor music is over rated as hell. its not good. Those soundtracks.. yea give me a few months worth of living expenses and whatever instruments i want... I could have done those. no problem. and I'm sure many here could have done the same. He is not innovative. and don't get me started on the slip. Disgusting pile of trash. Embarrassing. And HTDA is crap. I wish Atticus would spend his time on something good... like a full length Error record...

Look at reznors Spotify playlists. they are stuck in the past. He refuses to be inspired by current artists. He was better when he took inspiration from his peers. whether he considered himself to be ripping them off or not... he was better then. I keep hoping he gets it back, and i still see moments of hope with things like the immigrant song and tetsuo. but overall i'm disappointed continually.

I downloaded the Niggy Tardust record. and it sucked. Then I downloaded the instrumental version, and it was awesome. I'm sure only because it was leftovers from Fragile music.
Tool is a band full of members who don't give a crap about whats good anymore. only whats technical. they all sit around in studio jerking off and recording it, and their fans are the most obnoxious people in the world who fall for it every time. The only thing I like about tool is I'm pretty sure they're fully aware of it and get a huge kick out of the fact that they've gotten away with it this long and are still making money off of it.

Cortini isn't that good. Unless he's remixing something.

TR Screwed up bad when he lost his connection with Clouser.

Radiohead... Oh jeeze... how over rated can this band get... why are people still talking about this band...

Bands like M83 and Big Black Delta and A Place to Bury Strangers are far more inventive than the reznor camp of today. Which only makes sense, because they are younger and allow themselves to be inspired by their peers. they aren't lazy. They want to be better than everybody else. and that causes them to push boundaries.

Switching Gears.

Lady Gaga... Anybody who's a fan of this music is a slave.


You might ask why I'm on this board anymore... because i grew up here i guess. I was here first. ;)

I'm going to try to keep this short, but you boil most of your argument down to the fact that Trent's living in the past. Are you sure it isn't you? I don't mean that in a condescending way, but one of the most prevalent complaints I hear about older bands is that they were better in the past. Bands grow, change and evolve. Since you used NIN and Radiohead as examples, I'll expand my opinion on the two. The run of Fixed through Still contain the majority of my favorite halos, now that period was over ten years ago. Trent's life was in shambles and I doubt he would want to go to that place again. With Teeth my not be one of my favorite NIN moments, but it could be seen as a sober rebirth. Approaching things with a different mindset and putting space between those dark days. I'd rather see my favorite artists healthy and creative, than brilliant and self destructing. I feel the same about Radiohead, there's a line on Supercollider that goes "I have jettisoned my illusions I have dislodged my depressions". In Rainbows has become my favorite from them. It may not be their best, but it sounds free of pressure(which it wasn't), confident and human. I remember hearing Jigsaw Falling Into Place for the first time and thinking Thom Yorke is singing about being at a party and enjoying himself. That's a long way from most of the subject matter on OK Computer. They've grown, they've changed and now the talent comes out in different ways.

[xmd 5a]

The Smiths have never really clicked with me ("How Soon is Now" aside, love Marr's sound on that one). Enjoy a bit of Moz's solo stuff, though.

Isn't Anything > Loveless

New Order > Joy Division

Republic is fucking amazing, on that note

Can't stand Oasis. Blur were millions of times more creative (and their songs were catchier too)

Not overly into Radiohead pre-Kid A

I feel really guilty whenever I illegally download an album (unless it's incredibly rare or unavailable). *Note: I'm not against it at all*

[Jinsai]

Bob Dylan is great. Watch the documentary "The Other Side of the Mirror." THE best live concert film ever made.

Also, the Beatles aren't overrated. They were awesome, they wrote and recorded some of the most amazing and revolutionary music ever, and they changed everything... Everything you like would sound dramatically different if it weren't for The Beatles. Sure, if they hadn't made their incredible music, we wouldn't have had to suffer through the derivative bullshit that Oasis tortured us all with, but otherwise I'm insanely grateful for The Beatles.

Anyway... U2 is extraordinarily overrated, but if they put all of their great tracks on one album, it would be one of the best rock albums of all time. The same could almost be said of The White Stripes. I don't like They Might Be Giants or Duran Duran. Van Halen always sucked.

A lot of pioneering and celebrated early electronic dance music is just meandering crap made by people who didn't know what they were doing and couldn't have given a fuck either way.

I think Bon Iver is boring. M83 was a better band before they started cashing in on fake 80s nostalgia. Sublime really weren't that great of a band, and I could give a fuck. Animal Collective are psychedelic posers. Daft Punk get too much credit. Bjork's newer music is strangely fascinating and incredibly boring at the same time. Most EBM sounds like bad early anthem trance with spooky moronic vocals. Ska sucks (with a couple exceptions).

I don't think MIA is as good as you think she is.

Florence and the Machine sounds like later Annie Lennox. I'm not going to say whether or not that's a good thing, but fans should at least admit it.

Pitchfork was right about Source Tags and Codes.



Isn't Anything > Loveless

New Order > Joy Division

booooooooooo..... I'm on the fence on both of these issues, but still, boooooooooo, because.... I disagree.

[hobochic]

Agreed, the Beatles aren't overrated. It's not a matter of opinion. If the world were to export one single band's music-catalogue to alien civilisations it would have to be the Beatles. It's the recipe for all great pop/rock songwriting as we know it. If you don' get it you're probably not getting a ton of other things going on in your daily life.

Anyway, U2 are overrated as hell. Their only real contribution to the world is, well... not them writing and recording "Where the streets have no name". But them writing it, in order for Eddie Vedder to show up at a random Best Western in Arizona, a little tipsy and hanging with the local drunks, and performing the best version of "Where the streets have no name" ever, in karaoke:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu3Nu8uSke0

[xmd 5a]

Anyway... U2 is extraordinarily overrated, but if they put all of their great tracks on one album, it would be one of the best rock albums of all time.


It's called The Unforgettable Fire. ;) Don't mind Boy, October and War either.



I think Bon Iver is boring. M83 was a better band before they started cashing in on fake 80s nostalgia... Animal Collective are psychedelic posers. Daft Punk get too much credit.


Agreed on all counts.

Like this AnCo track a bit though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKU2iS4OMq0

[Jinsai]

Like this AnCo track a bit though:

They have some good songs, but that track makes me want to cover my ears. The constant high end drives me insane. For Reverend Green is a great song though, I have to admit.

on a side note, you've convinced me to sit down and listen to Unforgettable Fire again.

[Sutekh]

The Beatles = overrated. And before anyone... lectures me on how important they are to the development of pop music (really?! no shit. wow you must have watched television or read a paper at least once or twice to gain such an insight, I am in awe), I know - and I do like them. But for me the myth is as powerful as the music - that's why, when you say they are overrated, people always refer to the band's place in history rather than the music itself.



they wrote and recorded some of the most amazing and revolutionary music ever, and they changed everything... Everything you like would sound dramatically different if it weren't for The Beatles.

wow, I never knew that The Beatles were such a big influence on Lonnie Donegan, Robert Johnson, Pierre Schaffer... incredible to think they went back in time and invented transatlantic and delta blues as well as skiffle bands

Sorry for the sarcasm! but they did take a few cues


Agreed, the Beatles aren't overrated. It's not a matter of opinion.

Do you seriously mean that? You do know there are no objectively "correct" opinions and even if there were it's highly questionable that we would even recognise them as such

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

[Magtig]

Boy, October, Unforgettable Fire, Under A Blood Red Sky, War, Joshua Tree, Rattle and Hum, and Actuing Baby are all great albums. There's a reason they became such a big band, and around here the controversial position is to like them. Yeah, Bono acts a little douchey, and his band hasn't put any good albums out in forever, but at least the guy's out there trying to make a positive change.. we're all human, right? Well, Bono's REALLY human. haha Everything until Zoo Station is fucking awesome.

[Iran_Ed]

Anyway, U2 are overrated as hell. Their only real contribution to the world is, well... not them writing and recording "Where the streets have no name". But them writing it, in order for Eddie Vedder to show up at a random Best Western in Arizona, a little tipsy and hanging with the local drunks, and performing the best version of "Where the streets have no name" ever, in karaoke

I think its actually true, but there's a rumor that when U2 were recording The Joshua Tree Brian Eno tried to erase the tapes for Where the streets have no name because the band were taking too much time with it. I wish he had done that with the last two Coldplay albums.

[Jinsai]

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

Except what was said was nothing like that... for it to be comparable, calling Coke "overrated' would have to make sense, and it doesn't.

Also, to say that The Beatles did nothing other than take an obvious cue from blues music is crazy. If you like any rock music from the past forty years, you owe a big "thank you" to The Beatles.

[Sutekh]

Pay attention 007, my comments about objective knowledge weren't in reply to what you said (read it again) - and I didn't say they did nothing but take their cues from blues music... you said everything I listen to would sound different, but I listen to quite a few acts that predate the Beatles

And of course you can describe Coke as "overrated"... it's fizzy sugary shit and yet somehow it's the #1 beverage in the world, I would say it is overrated. Why can't you describe it as such?

[WorzelG]

The idea that Ozzy Osbourne is the greatest frontman for Black Sabbath irks me. I saw them live in the early nineties with Tony Martin as frontman and the early stuff sounded SO much better with him singing, okay not the greatest frontman but Ozzy just shambles about the stage shouting 'go fucking crazy' every few minutes AND his voice is shit, so what is so much better about him?

[Jinsai]

Pay attention 007, my comments about objective knowledge weren't in reply to what you said (read it again) - and I didn't say they did nothing but take their cues from blues music... you said everything I listen to would sound different, but I listen to quite a few acts that predate the Beatles

I thought it would be obviously implied that I was referring to bands that came after the Beatles. In case it wasn't, let me clarify... I wasn't implying that musicians who came before were using psychic powers.


And of course you can describe Coke as "overrated"... it's fizzy sugary shit and yet somehow it's the #1 beverage in the world, I would say it is overrated. Why can't you describe it as such?

Because when I follow this unnecessary analogy far enough, I feel sick.

[Sutekh]

You make a totalising statement like "everything you listen to would be different" except by that you meant not everything. You are hard work :P

Anyway where did I say they weren't influential? Like I said in my first post, there really is no need to point out to me what place The Beatles occupy in music history, it's patronising



(saying keep up 007 isn't though :P :P )

[Jinsai]

You make a totalising statement like "everything you listen to would be different" except by that you meant not everything. You are hard work :P

It's not hard work to realize I'm not saying Beethoven was influenced by The Beatles.


Anyway where did I say they weren't influential? Like I said in my first post, there really is no need to point out to me what place The Beatles occupy in music history, it's patronising

Their undeniable influence is a huge consideration when you call them "overrated."


(saying keep up 007 isn't though :P :P )

ok?

[Sutekh]

But again even though they are hugely influential & an awesome band, this doesn't mean it's a fact that they are good.

By overrated I mean people often give them credit for things they didn't start... I'm glad you acknowledge music before The Beatles but nonetheless you are implying that rock music was jack shit before The Beatles, which isn't true, is giving them a bit more credit than they deserve, which qualifies as overrating

and it's a sentiment I hear again and again and again, so while they deserve to be highly rated, I think it's fair to say they are overrated in a sense

[jmtd]

Look at reznors Spotify playlists. they are stuck in the past. He refuses to be inspired by current artists. He was better when he took inspiration from his peers. whether he considered himself to be ripping them off or not... he was better then. I keep hoping he gets it back, and i still see moments of hope with things like the immigrant song and tetsuo. but overall i'm disappointed continually.

You've hit the Nine-Inch Nail on the head. I was just listening to Skryllex and thinking the next NIN record definitely needs some WUB-WUB-WUB

[Jinsai]

But again even though they are hugely influential & an awesome band, this doesn't mean it's a fact that they are good.

I never said it was. I could say something like "Keep up 007?" but then I'd feel like a douchebag.


By overrated I mean people often give them credit for things they didn't start... I'm glad you acknowledge music before The Beatles but nonetheless you are implying that rock music was jack shit before The Beatles, which isn't true, is giving them a bit more credit than they deserve, which qualifies as overrating

No, I implied The Beatles changed all rock music that followed them. They're not the only band that changed everything, but they fucking did. Even if a band wasn't influenced by The Beatles, they were almost certainly influenced by a band that was, especially if we're talking about relatively modern bands. Their influence was immediate and has persisted today, though I'd love to hear some good music made by a band that either hasn't heard The Beatles or thinks they suck. That sounds like a "fun" exercise.

The Beatles are NOT "overrated." It's a lame and lazy criticism.


You've hit the Nine-Inch Nail on the head. I was just listening to Skryllex and thinking the next NIN record definitely needs some WUB-WUB-WUB

I don't agree entirely with Joymode... I actually think Ghosts is the most interesting and fun thing NIN has released since The Downward Spiral, even if I'm not that big of a fan of With Teeth, and I think Year Zero is a fun but seriously flawed and inconsistent album, though I mostly like The Slip. Still, I don't think you're doing his argument justice in this rebuttal. You almost seem to be ignoring what he's saying in favor of just mocking him. I might not agree with his opinion, but I think it's a far cry from an implication that "Srkillex is teh awesome"

[hobochic]

wow, I never knew that The Beatles were such a big influence on Lonnie Donegan, Robert Johnson, Pierre Schaffer... incredible to think they went back in time and invented transatlantic and delta blues as well as skiffle bands

Sorry for the sarcasm! but they did take a few cues



Do you seriously mean that? You do know there are no objectively "correct" opinions and even if there were it's highly questionable that we would even recognise them as such

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

As I said, it's not a matter of opinion. You are entitled not to "like" the Beatles as you're entitled to not "like" complex architecture, computer programming or Neil deGrasse (astrophysicist). You can't deny, though, that the songwriting the Beatles developed was groundbreaking and further developed the science of modern music orchestration, as did the great classic composers in their genres. It's their sonic architecture that introduced new concepts in how and what a music band could be, and that's all about their music. Not so much about their "time" in history, although it does play a role. I don't listen to them that much or consider them my "favorite" band. If anything, they're underrated and misunderstood, perhaps mostly by their biggest fans.

[jmtd]

New Order > Joy Division

Republic is fucking amazing, on that note

I might get Republic one day, but today is not that day. "Regret" is great. Then I'm stuck. Help please? Just about any other NO album I can name at least two tracks that are great, but not Republic. (TBH I haven't got 'Technique' yet either.)

[Ryan]

I might get Republic one day, but today is not that day. "Regret" is great. Then I'm stuck. Help please? Just about any other NO album I can name at least two tracks that are great, but not Republic. (TBH I haven't got 'Technique' yet either.)

World, Ruined In A Day, Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Chemical, Special, and the beautiful Avalanche with Gillian Gilbert on vocals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMkir4RRILM

It was always special
It was like water down the drain
I'm intoxicated
Every time I hear your name
I try to remember
But nothing is the same
It was always special
it was like water down the drain

Patiently you wait for me
You're so blind
I thought it couldn't be
Then changed my mind
Drowning in the endless sea
Line all those lines
The traces of your memory
Don't belong with mine

[Jinsai]

I might get Republic one day, but today is not that day. "Regret" is great. Then I'm stuck. Help please? Just about any other NO album I can name at least two tracks that are great, but not Republic. (TBH I haven't got 'Technique' yet either.)

Well, I have no real dog in this fight, but Technique is fucking cool. Movement and (sacrilege I know) Get Ready are my favorite albums from NO if we're discounting singles collections.

[sadpanda]

guitar music is shit

[wizfan]

Congratulations, Sutekh, you made the most successful thread on ETS.

[jmtd]

World, Ruined In A Day, Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Chemical, Special, and the beautiful Avalanche with Gillian Gilbert on vocals.

Just to be clear, do you mean those songs from the YT vid you supplied (queued): because if you meant the album tracks (obv. excepting Avalanche) maybe we'll have to agree to disagree ;) or maybe it will click one day… it just hasn't yet.


in order for Eddie Vedder to show up at a random Best Western in Arizona, a little tipsy and hanging with the local drunks, and performing the best version of "Where the streets have no name" ever, in karaoke

Not a patch on the Pet Shop Boys cover :P

[Ryan]

Just to be clear, do you mean those songs from the YT vid you supplied (queued): because if you meant the album tracks (obv. excepting Avalanche) maybe we'll have to agree to disagree ;) or maybe it will click one day… it just hasn't yet.

I was saying which album tracks I think stand out from Republic that I listen to on a consistent basis.

[jmtd]

Well, I have no real dog in this fight, but Technique is fucking cool. Movement and (sacrilege I know) Get Ready are my favorite albums from NO if we're discounting singles collections.

Get Ready is underrated but I think Warner fucked it. There was a "get ready premix" on the power of independent trucking which was far superior. At least Crystal and Slowjam made it through unscarred.

Edit: http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.com/2009/12/got-ready-new-order-get-ready-mastered.html

[hobochic]

Not a patch on the Pet Shop Boys cover :P

Did I miss anything? Did he cover a Pet Shop Boys song? **Hopes he covered It's a Sin***



Ah... I think I got what you mean. That the PSB covered WTSHNN. Bummer, I could almost hear Eddie's voice doing It's a Sin.

[Jinsai]

guitar music is shit

Well, great. I'm really glad you're here to offer that bullshit.


At least Crystal and Slowjam made it through unscarred.

Slow Jam almost ties with Ceremony as my personal favorite New Order song.

[xmd 5a]

I might get Republic one day, but today is not that day. "Regret" is great. Then I'm stuck. Help please? Just about any other NO album I can name at least two tracks that are great, but not Republic. (TBH I haven't got 'Technique' yet either.)

What Ryan said, plus "Spooky" and especially "Young Offender" (one of my overall favourite NO trax). Actually, I can't think of a track I don't like on Republic.

Movement -> Power, Corruption and Lies -> Low-Life -> Brotherhood -> Technique -> Republic is such a great streak of albums.

[Jinsai]

What Ryan said, plus "Spooky" and especially "Young Offender" (one of my overall favourite NO trax). Actually, I can't think of a track I don't like on Republic.

Power, Corruption and Lies -> Low-Life -> Brotherhood -> Technique -> Republic is such a great streak of albums.

what about Movement? I can't be alone here can I?

[xmd 5a]

Nope, forgot to add it. Get Ready could go on there too, depending on my mood. "Crystal" is my absolute favourite NO song but the others are kind of mood-dependent for me.

Thread officially hijacked haha.

[aggroculture]

Opeth: a good band about ten years ago, now they are bloated and boring. How becoming a tribute act to 70 prog rock's most cliched elements is cause for praise, is a mystery to me. Live, they put you to sleep.

Isis: the music's OK, the vocals totally kill it. I think with a proper singer they could have been massive. But Aaron Turner's dumb, dumb shouting and weak singing are an instant turn-off for me. I love death metal, but death metal-type vocals on mellower rock music totally do not work.

Black Sabbath: yep, Ozzy sucks, and has always been a clown. How first Sabbath, and then Sharon Osborne, have made a man who can't carry a tune into a global superstar is just crazy to me. Sabbath's music isn't bad, and then you have Ozzy coming in and totally ruining it. Robert Plant is a kick-ass singer. Ozzy is a joke.

Van Halen: yes, they have always sucked. VH 1 is one of the worst albums of all time. Running With The Devil a truly horrible, pathetic version of what a rock song should be. I don't care how good of a guitar player Eddie Van Halen is supposed to be: his songs suck.

Radiohead: I think they were good until OK Computer, which is their masterpiece. They started out as this timid, British answer to Nirvana, and then grew into being a great band with The Bends and OK Computer: but after OK Computer they totally lost their nerve. It's like they realized they would never top that album, and retreated into this land of indie/electronica-lite background music which pretends to be so experimental and different. Since OK Computer not a song, not a moment stands out to me. They lost their sense of humour, their musical daring, and thematically it's this one-note "outrage," at easy targets: commercialism, capitalism, corporations. RH think they're saving the world, they take themselves so fucking seriously: Skinny Puppy are angry too, but at least they have not lost their sense of humour. RH is a great and sad parable about what happens when success goes to artists' heads: they believe their own hype, lose all sense of themselves, live in their own bubble fed by the masses' praise, and think their shit is golden. I don't think anyone will be listening to post-OK Computer material in 20 years time.

The Beatles: John>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paul. John writes the witty, political, funny, catchy songs. Paul writes the schmaltzy, sentimental love songs. I agree some of them are awesome, but I also think it's the dynamic between the two styles that made The Beatles so great. Let's also not forget George, and Ringo's comedic contributions are priceless too. For the person saying don't feel guilty about not having an emotional connection with The Beatles, I love gradually discovering their albums one by one. Sergent Peppers, which my mother exposed me to as a child, is still one of my favourite albums of all time. Wannabes like Ben Gibbard or Stephen Malkmus have nothing on The Beatles. Nothing.

Trent Reznor: I don't think he's made a great album since TDS. Songs yes, but not an album. Another case of ego disappearing through the roof, and then the clouds. The Fragile was ego overload, and With Teeth was a crushingly disappointing comeback, and it's been so patchy since then. The soundtrack work is not that good at all, quite amateurish actually especially Dragon Tattoo. He certainly knows how to create some nifty sounds, but it's kind of sad Trent has basically become this "cool" sound designer for goth-y Hollywood movies, if you think about it. I totally agree that losing Clouser was a big mistake.

Jack White: love some of his singles, but find his albums filled with generic bluesy filler. Also, The Dead Weather was fucking terrible: their show I saw was one of the worst rock shows I've ever seen. I can only guess that Jack fancies Alison Mosshart: she's talentless, cannot sing, there's no other reason for her to be there besides looking good, or making White look good.

Tom Petty: has he ever not been complete crap?

Neil Young: hate every single note I've heard from this guy. I have no clue what people are digging here.

The Grateful Dead: totally do not get it.

Phil Collins is awesome! His first couple of solo albums are as good as 80s pop-rock gets.

[Jinsai]

Tom Petty: has he ever not been complete crap?

Yes.... most of the time. There's some Petty stuff I personally hate, but I actually think he gets unfairly passed over for being a great songwriter and a really authentic badass.


Neil Young: hate every single note I've heard from this guy. I have no clue what people are digging here.

Just to ask, but have you listened to After the Goldrush (album) or any of the live albums (especially Live: Rust)?


The Grateful Dead: totally do not get it.

Do you like any "jam bands?"


Phil Collins is awesome! His first couple of solo albums are as good as 80s pop-rock gets.

Except that he's directly responsible for the worst kind of 80s production pop that snowballed into almost its own genre of self parody. Everything about his sound is shit.

[wizfan]

I think Year Zero is a fun but seriously flawed and inconsistent album

I actually consider YZ to be one of Trent's most consistent works. You know what's really inconsistent? The Fragile. I love most of its tracks, but it never gels as an album for me.

[aggroculture]

I'm still a pretty big Morrissey fan, I've heard the vast majority of what he's published and, honestly, if you find the music uninteresting, you're totally correct. It's bland, pedestrian rock music as played by a band of middle-aged men who would be gigging at pubs and bar mitzvahs if not for their friendship with Moz, and it's a whole lot of Morrissey's love-it-or-hate-it personality. You're still trying, though, so you must be seeing some value in his music. I'll take a different tact in trying to convert you. People like Morrissey because, as a songwriter, he has a gift for writing lyrics that are broadly, deeply relatable while being vague enough to be open to vastly different interpretations. His songs are very rarely autobiographical, they're about wheelchair-bound geniuses, faded boxers, glamourous gangsters, British nationalists, guilt-ridden priests, and other compelling characters. He writes with an almost supernatural level of empathy, an empathy which is all the more interesting when seen in light of the man's surly, narcissistic personality. Morrissey is not dissimilar to the Jack Nicholson character in As Good As It Gets - a nasty, bitter little man who can only see all the beauty in the world through his art. If that paradox fascinates you, you'll get a lot of mileage out of Morrissey. If all you can see is the boring music and the vain prick singer, look elsewhere. The world's full of good music and Morrissey's got enough fans.

I think that's very well put. What I would add is Morrissey's knack for nailing great, great pop melodies and marrying them to lyrics you'd never think would work as pop hooks: writing a song around the phrase "the world is full of crashing bores" and making it work is an example of what makes Morrissey a genius. You hear some of his songs and go "how the fuck did he do that?" I think when it comes to pop he's a professional and talented in ways that most frontmen/lyricists do not come close. He's really good at encapsulating a certain feeling or mood or idea with a lyric and a melody, and making you feel at that same time that you've never heard it before and you knew it all along. That's why I think Morrissey is among what the best pop has to offer. I also think he's gotten better and better with age: I don't have much love for The Smiths, but I love Morrissey's solo material, in particular his 00s albums.

[Jinsai]

I actually consider YZ to be one of Trent's most consistent works. You know what's really inconsistent? The Fragile. I love most of its tracks, but it never gels as an album for me.

While I definitely like The Fragile more than Year Zero, I agree that it's unfocused in parts. Still, as a production piece, it's so awesome. Songwriting and concept wise, it doesn't work for me as a whole, despite a handful of truly great tracks. Somewhat Damaged, Into the Void, The Great Below, Into the Void, The Big Come Down, Into the Void, The Day the World Went Away, Into the Void, and Into the Void are good songs.

[wizfan]

Somewhat Damaged, Into the Void, The Great Below, Into the Void, The Day the World Went Away, Into the Void, and Into the Void are good songs.

You forgot to mention Into the Void.

[Jinsai]

You forgot to mention Into the Void.

Oh yeah. That one is pretty good. Also, Into the Void isn't bad either.

[jmtd]

The Fragile (track) was 'meh' to me until ~2008 or 2009 where the guitar solo live really worked for me.

[hobochic]

Love this thread.

I think it's interesting, hobochic, that you're still seeking conversion after having seen most of what Morrissey has to offer and still not feeling it. I'm still a pretty big Morrissey fan, I've heard the vast majority of what he's published and, honestly, if you find the music uninteresting, you're totally correct. It's bland, pedestrian rock music as played by a band of middle-aged men who would be gigging at pubs and bar mitzvahs if not for their friendship with Moz, and it's a whole lot of Morrissey's love-it-or-hate-it personality. You're still trying, though, so you must be seeing some value in his music. I'll take a different tact in trying to convert you. People like Morrissey because, as a songwriter, he has a gift for writing lyrics that are broadly, deeply relatable while being vague enough to be open to vastly different interpretations. His songs are very rarely autobiographical, they're about wheelchair-bound geniuses, faded boxers, glamourous gangsters, British nationalists, guilt-ridden priests, and other compelling characters. He writes with an almost supernatural level of empathy, an empathy which is all the more interesting when seen in light of the man's surly, narcissistic personality. Morrissey is not dissimilar to the Jack Nicholson character in As Good As It Gets - a nasty, bitter little man who can only see all the beauty in the world through his art. If that paradox fascinates you, you'll get a lot of mileage out of Morrissey. If all you can see is the boring music and the vain prick singer, look elsewhere. The world's full of good music and Morrissey's got enough fans.

Thanks for that post. Yeah, I have a fascination for stuff that provokes me. I guess I have a tendency to get attracted to people I don't fully "get" as well. I liked your description of why you love Morrissey more than Morrissey and find this bit especially interesting:

"His songs are very rarely autobiographical, they're about wheelchair-bound geniuses, faded boxers, glamourous gangsters, British nationalists, guilt-ridden priests, and other compelling characters. He writes with an almost supernatural level of empathy, an empathy which is all the more interesting when seen in light of the man's surly, narcissistic personality."

That's the kind of stuff that gets me interested. Can you tell me what songs are about "the wheelchair-bound genius", the "faded boxer", the "glamourous gangster" and the "guilt-ridden priest"?

I hope I like those.

[Sutekh]

I never said it was. I could say something like "Keep up 007?" but then I'd feel like a douchebag.
"

You are a douchebag... I have tried very hard to be Patient and civil but you are determined to be an arsehole about this...for people like you your crime is also your punishment! Why the hell do you keep repeating yourself regarding the influence of the beatles... Because you arent listening and just want to "win" the conversation

have it mate, its yours!

There is plenty of jazz, modern classical and ambient music that isnt influenced by the beatles. Please explain the causal link between jungle and the beatles

[koz-ivan]

As I said, it's not a matter of opinion. You are entitled not to "like" the Beatles as you're entitled to not "like" complex architecture, computer programming or Neil deGrasse (astrophysicist). You can't deny, though, that the songwriting the Beatles developed was groundbreaking and further developed the science of modern music orchestration, as did the great classic composers in their genres. It's their sonic architecture that introduced new concepts in how and what a music band could be, and that's all about their music. Not so much about their "time" in history, although it does play a role. I don't listen to them that much or consider them my "favorite" band. If anything, they're underrated and misunderstood, perhaps mostly by their biggest fans.

part of the "problem" w/ the beatles is their status, probably like most folks who post here, i first heard these albums long after the beatles rep as "the greatest ever" was firmly cemented. and at the time i was deep into far more aggressive industrial / electronic music, and the beatles never really grabbed me. never really understood the swooning fans, or the relentless praise.

even when the beatles were finally added to itunes there was a decent amount of hype surrounding that, with a web & tv campaign.

in hindsight not even the beatles can live up to the hype of the beatles, but they did come up with some great albums / songs, that i now appreciate far more than before.

----

agreed on some of the other bands mentioned here:

apc never got the appeal, saw them open for nin back w/ fragility 2.0 tour, bought the first few records, can't say that anything was terribly memorable, though i love puscifer & tool.

with_teeth was actually a pretty decent record, hated it when it first came out, was disappointed with the sound of it, hated the lack of liner notes, thought the pdf poster things reeked of ego and trying to be far too clever. in hindsight though it contained some great tracks, and has held up well.

the fragile was always a bloated mess, i suppose anyone would have struggled to followup the downward spiral, so i can forgive that, but it's still one of my least favorite of the nin albums.

radiohead - like the rest of the world, i loved creep, though i'm still wondering what happened to that band and why everything else they release to great hype and acclaim feels so empty and lifeless.

----

the smashing pumpkins - seriously fuck those guys. why they were ever popular can only be blamed on nirvana's lengthy coat tails. why they haven't just died under a rock somewhere is anyone's guess.

[fillow]

Wow. After reading this thread back to back with bad movies thread, I wonder if there was one goddamned thing in music and cinema that aggroculture enjoyed in last 20 years.

[Space Suicide]

the smashing pumpkins - seriously fuck those guys. why they were ever popular can only be blamed on nirvana's lengthy coat tails. why they haven't just died under a rock somewhere is anyone's guess.

Current time Smashing Pumpkins aren't that great at all but I fail to see how any correlation with Nirvana helped the band create Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness or their sound as a whole. I think people give too much credit to bands that have nothing to do with other acts around their time frame's success.

I also guess it's controversial to utter or denounce anything related to the Beatles.

[aggroculture]

More:

Steve Albini: I really really dislike his productions and do not get why people rate this guy. He really goes overboard with the whole lo-fi thing: those Jesus Lizard records are unlistenable. I like his own music even less. I remember when as a teenager, after hearing so many people rave about it, I finally bought Songs About Fucking: talk about huge disappointment. I keep giving Albini a chance, and he keeps underwhelming me.

Foo Fighters: I dug the first album and it also got the sympathy vote: I remember the emotion I felt on hearing This Is A Call for the first time, and its links to the Nirvana sound. Ever since then I've hated every FF song I've heard: it's bland, boring, vacuous feel-good stadium rock. And I hate that journalists repeatedly bang on about Grohl being such a nice guy: I've interviewed him twice, he's not that nice. And hiding behind him on With Teeth has been one of TR's weaker moves.

Fall Out Boy: some of their songs are great: Patrick Stump has a nice soulful voice and Wentz can pen some good lyrics; at their best they transcend the emo-pop-punk scene which spawned them and just make great pop. I hope they get back together.

[BlueCalx]

Glad you guys liked what I said, hobochic and aggroculture. Yes, Morrissey's way with vocal melodies is strong indeed, "Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together" from Viva Hate and "What She Said" from the Smiths are two of my all-time favourite songs to sing.

The wheelchair-bound genius is "November Spawned a Monster". The original studio version of this song has aged badly, but it's a live staple for Morrissey and is quite well-executed on the Live at Earls Court album. The key line "Jesus made me, so Jesus, save me from pity, sympathy, and people discussing me" is one of my all-time favourite lyrics in any pop song ever.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5RNmUwef6Y&amp;feature=related

The faded boxer is "Boxers". Seeing what you've said so far, hobochic, I don't know if you'll be all that hot on this one, as the tune is a bit jangly and meandering, but it is a great character sketch and it's quite reminiscent of the movie The Wrestler.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gH2c8MkGpw

Glamourous gangsters are all over Morrissey's music - he's got a bit of a fascination with the romance of crime. My two favourites, though, are "The Last of the Famous International Playboys", written as a love letter from a half-mad fanboy to the infamous Kray twins (definitely worth a wikipedia search if you're not familiar with their story) and "The Boy Racer", a straight-up rocker that proves Morrissey's sleepy band can get the lead out when they want.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqxOq-VmhHA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXlVxsLRtVw

The guilt-ridden priest is "Dear God, Please Help Me". Reviewers laughed at the comic couplet "There are explosive kegs/ between my legs", but my favourite part comes early in the song, where Morrissey sighs "I'm so very tired of doing the right thing". God knows I've been there. Haven't we all?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7GsCREwos

[Space Suicide]

So, when did this become a Share Morrisey's Music Thread?

[BlueCalx]

Foo Fighters: I dug the first album and it also got the sympathy vote: I remember the emotion I felt on hearing This Is A Call for the first time, and its links to the Nirvana sound. Ever since then I've hated every FF song I've heard: it's bland, boring, vacuous feel-good stadium rock. And I hate that journalists repeatedly bang on about Grohl being such a nice guy: I've interviewed him twice, he's not that nice. And hiding behind him on With Teeth has been one of TR's weaker moves.

Couldn't possibly agree with you more. That first album is really something special, isn't it? It's such a pity that it's overshadowed in the catalogue by album after album of tuneless, lifeless, sexless music for men with baseball caps concealing bald spots and fridges full of Coors Light. I always thought his nice-guy rep was a bit suspect, but I'm suspicious of people who make 'nice' part of their brand. Ever had any friends who consider themselves 'nice guys'? I've known a few, and they all end up being pretty friggin' scary. Also, the sissy boy bitchfit that Dave Grohl had over Skrillex at the Grammies was embarrassing to watch.

[BlueCalx]

So, when did this become a Share Morrisey's Music Thread?

Around about the time it stopped being an 'awkwardly debate the worth of the Beatles' thread.

[Sutekh]

I think even foos fans want to like them more than they actually do... Same as later manic street preachers... Feel bad slagging it given the history, but its breezy prozac fm rock to play in your mondeo on the way to ikea. I liked probot though, shake your blood is the best motorhead song since 1992 (effectively)

[ambergris]

Nice thread...

I guess there are some artists who are 'too much' part of their time. For example, I can't relate to Bob Dylan anymore. His writing, his music and his style belong to the Boomer generation. I`m not interested in it. Same thing with Nirvana - it's music made for Generation X. It's of no relevance today, in my opinion.
The Beatles deserve their reputation. Noone did concept albums because Frank Zappa did it first, but many people wanted to role-play like Sgt. Pepper (I'm looking at you, David Bowie). Sgt. Pepper was Paul's idea and he is not only a better songwriter than Lennon but also almost as revolutionary. I'd say that "Helter Skelter" was the very first heavy metal song. But John was needed as a corrective to keep Paul from writing too much shlock.
It seems that there are two worlds of music, one for casual listeners and one for the real fans. For example, a lot of people on this board, music critics and other really interested people would say that Radiohead is one of the best, if not the best currently active band. But could your mother name one Radiohead song? Would you ever have a gospel choir sing a Radiohead sing like they sing 'Let it be'?
That's why I think that U2 are not overrated - they were, not the best, but maybe the biggest band of the world until they released No Line on the Horizon (then it was Coldplay). Everyone knows at least Beautiful Day or Vertigo (or One).

[reseen_lamenti]

Daisy Berkowitz (and by obvious extension, TR) is the only reason I even bothered listening to Marilyn Manson in the first place. Portrait of an American Family still has the coolest/most innovative guitar work of all their albums, IMO. And they were a lot more aggressive and psychedelic with him live, than without.

The Trocadero ‘95 show on Youtube is just about the best MM show I’ve ever seen.

The Trocadero ‘95 show on Youtube is just about the best MM show I’ve ever seen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LJYaK2I9wk)

Sure as hell sounds better than Twiggy playing guitars now.

[Sutekh]

Yep early MM and spooky kids was very psych... Reeks of acid. Totally different band

i think the beatles do deserve their reputation but nonetheless they get credit for things they didnt pioneer. Its a very specific point im making (badly, perhaps! Captain dickhead certainly doesnt get what im saying), for instance yourself you credit helter skelter as the first heavy metal song, but blue cheer and the kinks, to an extent hendrix were making stabs at proto metal long before '68. That is what i mean by overrated - not overrated generally speaking, but in certain ways. I think thats perfectly rational

[aggroculture]

Jimi Hendrix: I realize he revolutionized the electric guitar yadda yadda yadda. But I don't enjoy listening to his music. I also don't find that he has good songs. Feel free to make suggestions.

[BlueCalx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY82esUVIwA

Noel and Liam Gallagher on Be Here Now, Oasis's obese masterpiece. It makes me kind of nuts, but I'm with Liam on this one. It does rock, especially when you're getting ready to go out.

[BlueCalx]

Oh, hey, one last thing. I was really stoked to see a bunch of people come around in this thread to talk about how they had no use for TR's Ghosts. When I first heard that album I was struck by how cheap and tinny it sounded, how a lot of the stronger melodies were blatant retreads of stuff from TDS and The Fragile, and how totally out of step it sounded with contemporary electronic music. The instrumentals from The Fragile hold up really well because they reflect Trent drawing influence from this broad cross-section of music. The stuff on Ghosts sounds like Trent drawing influence from himself, and from his two or three all-time favourite bands.

[hobochic]

So, when did this become a Share Morrisey's Music Thread?


I'm glad someone took the shit I said about Morrissey and eloquently explained why they loved it. I see no point in talking shit about music and artists without the possibility of getting some cultural exchange out of it. Isn't that the point of even interacting with people?

I do admit Morrissey kinda hogged a nice chunk of this thread... fucking Morrissey.

[dlb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY82esUVIwA

Noel and Liam Gallagher on Be Here Now, Oasis's obese masterpiece. It makes me kind of nuts, but I'm with Liam on this one. It does rock, especially when you're getting ready to go out.

^^ 100 times this!

It may not be their masterpiece, but I get a huge kick out of be here now and Oasis in general. I just don't get why so many people hate on them, yet their gigs are among my favorite concert moments ever (both Oasis shows and the respective shows from Beady Eye and Noel)! Not that often you get to witness such a cheerful, friendly and overall appreciative crowd singing along to the music as with Oasis. Hell, I even made friends at pretty much every single show I've been to. Doesn't matter from where the fans are, Germany, the UK, America, Spain or Italy they just bring people together and frankly I haven't had this kind of pleasure at many others shows yet. At least not to that extend and I'm not even in a fanclub or browsing through related message boards.

I guess most of the discomfort people have with these guys comes from the negative publicity both of them generate and their overall behaviour. I for one can tolerate that and hell I even find it funny at times. Other musician's feuds are way more annoying and constantly shoved into your face by the media than Oasis' IMHO.

[Magtig]

Nirvana. Talk about ridiculously overrated. I thought they were pretty middle of the road even when they came out, but then Kurt blew his head off and all the sudden they were the voice of a generation.

The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and Facebook are both incredibly boring soundtracks. Hours and hours of recycled Fragile & Ghosts ideas, melodies and sounds; especially the guitar tone. If you really must recycle how about using the tones from Broken? To this day I've never heard guitars that sound like that anywhere else (yeah, yeah, I know, probably not a good fit for a boring soundtrack). Regarding Ghosts, if Trent's going to make instrumental music, it would be nice if it went more in the direction of the noise experiments on Year Zero and Fixed, as far as I'm concerned.

[Jinsai]

You are a douchebag... I have tried very hard to be Patient and civil but you are determined to be an arsehole about this...for people like you your crime is also your punishment! Why the hell do you keep repeating yourself regarding the influence of the beatles... Because you arent listening and just want to "win" the conversation

have it mate, its yours!

There is plenty of jazz, modern classical and ambient music that isnt influenced by the beatles. Please explain the causal link between jungle and the beatles

I'm not listening? I VERY CLEARLY specified rock music in my last post! I thought the implication was already obvious, but since it apparently wasn't, I thought I clarified that. How can I be more clear? Do I need to say "by the way, when I say ROCK music, I'm not talking about electronic dance music or modern classical?" Is that necessary?

[PooPooMeowChow]

Nirvana = over rated
Stone Temple Pilots and Alice In Chains are under rated.


Prog rock was the best music of the 70's (Yes, ELP, King Crimson)
Genesis after Gabriel sucks.
Led Zeppelin has like 3 good songs.
Rollin Stones suck nuts.

Musicians should stop performing as they near 60. I love Bob Dylan but he needs to stop touring.

[Jinsai]

Genesis after Gabriel sucks.

That's not a controversial opinion

[Ripe(withdecay)]

My only controversial music opinion: Who the fuck is Morrisey?

[Highly Psychological]

Since putting down the drugs Primal Scream suck. I wish they were back on drugs. Not Heroin, just speed and Ketamine and GHB.

Matt Johnson of The The is the most underrated British musician ever.

SST records with the exception of Meat Puppets and Husker Du is the most over praised record label ever. Black Flag sucked except for the track Depression.

I find Pearl Jam's music deeply emotional and love their early output. Eddie Vedder is a beautiful human being.

Bono is a manipulative greedy scumbag. Total fake.

James Hetfield is the worst vocalist ever. If you were to remove him, I would love Metallica.

Late period Ramones in underrated.

Wire were more important than the Sex Pistols.

House Music in the early 90's was better than Grunge.

Morrissey has never really been celibate. He is a raging Homosexual with multiple ex boyfriends.

Gang of Four have an awful guitar sound.

[Sutekh]

I'm not listening? I VERY CLEARLY specified rock music in my last post! I thought the implication was already obvious, but since it apparently wasn't, I thought I clarified that. How can I be more clear? Do I need to say "by the way, when I say ROCK music, I'm not talking about electronic dance music or modern classical?" Is that necessary?

Rationally i would have to concur, but your napoleon dynamite rage boners are worth feigning ignorance for

THE BEATLES ARE TOTALLY SWEET YOU FRICKIN IIIIDIOT...

adolescent tosser

Here is why I think you aren't listening - i am saying that the beatles get credit for stuff they dont deserve. Your reply to that is "they were very very influential on rock bands"

Even though i never denied that... I even state this is the case, but again and again you point it out. Yes they were very influential, so much so that many people assume they innovated things they didnt... In this very thread somebody credits them with writing the first heavy metal song, which is not the case. That is what I am saying, but you dont address it, you seem convinced that im saying they werent a big deal and rock owes them nothing - I am not saying that!

[PooPooMeowChow]

That's not a controversial opinion

oh, I know lots of people who prefer Collin's era

[hobochic]

I really hate to say this as I'm a huge fan of Alan Moulder and everything he's done (exaggeration). I especially love his early projects with The Jesus and Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Curve and so on... I love that.

I loved his work with NIN, BUT... I'm sick of his sound now. I'd like the next NIN record to have the balls to work outside its comfort zone.

The NIN&Moulder package has become the sonic equivalent to the joke that is Burton&Depp.

[Jinsai]

Rationally i would have to concur, but your napoleon dynamite rage boners are worth feigning ignorance for

THE BEATLES ARE TOTALLY SWEET YOU FRICKIN IIIIDIOT...

adolescent tosser

You started a thread called "Controversial Music Opinions," and you have a fit when people disagree with your oh-so-edgy opinion that The Beatles (the single most influential rock band of all time) are "overrated." It's a discussion board. We're having a discussion wherein I'm saying that I don't agree with your opinion. There's no rage here.

[Sutekh]

Lol, im not trying to be edgy, i genuinely think people give them undue credit. Plenty of other people in this thread have disagreed with me and i havent taken issue - because they werent pricks about it. You have a false perception of me as some conceited contarian, its irritating because i know what you mean - but that is totally not what im doing!

[Kid Charlemagne]

Never understood the appeal of Bjork. I flat out don't like her music.

[ambergris]

I like Led Zeppelin a lot - it's the drumming that does it...but it's disheartening to learn how much they stole/copied from others. And AC/DC post-back to black was a cheap version of Led Zeppelin.
Kanye West's last album was an overproduced mess, and he should stay silent on his records.
ABBA, George Michael and The Bee Gees are very underrated.

[Jinsai]

Lol, im not trying to be edgy, i genuinely think people give them undue credit. Plenty of other people in this thread have disagreed with me and i havent taken issue - because they werent pricks about it. You have a false perception of me as some conceited contarian, its irritating because i know what you mean - but that is totally not what im doing!

Where was I being a prick? You're the one who's been throwing personal insults out. I haven't even insulted you (yet).

Also, I've never heard people give The Beatles credit for inventing the things they experimented with and popularized. For instance, with regards to metal, Helter Skelter was a huge pioneering song that radically affected and influenced the bands that went on to create what is commonly referred to as metal. Ozzy was obsessed with The Beatles. They also were a milestone for the use of distortion in rock music, especially with popular rock music that was getting radio play. Did they single-handedly invent the genre? No, but they influenced the living shit out of it.

Just because there's some people out there who think "The Beatles invented the tambourine" doesn't mean that the band is suddenly overrated because someone didn't know what they were talking about.

[Sutekh]

Oh god.... Yes it does! If some people think the beatles invented the wheel, then those people overrate the beatles! As i have already said, this is not to say they are overrated generally... Its not just a few idiots either, the hysteria surrounding the band causes many rational people to make irrational assumptions - it is true to say that in some quarters and in some ways, they are overrated

Overrated does not mean shit, overrated does not necessarily mean completely undeserving of all received praise - that is why i object to you continually pointing out the obviously high stature of the band. You are incorrect in assuming that "overrated" is a term that can only apply to a majority. Something can be overrated by a minority

Mr A overrates the quality of his crops. The crops are overrated, in that mr A overrates them. You are hung up on the colloquial argot, where "overrated" means generally hailed but actually rubbish

[Jinsai]

Oh god.... Yes it does! If some people think the beatles invented the wheel, then those people overrate the beatles! As i have already said, this is not to say they are overrated generally... Its not just a few idiots either, the hysteria surrounding the band causes many rational people to make irrational assumptions - it is true to say that in some quarters and in some ways, they are overrated

Overrated does not mean shit, overrated does not necessarily mean completely undeserving of all received praise - that is why i object to you continually pointing out the obviously high stature of the band. You are incorrect in assuming that "overrated" is a term that can only apply to a majority. Something can be overrated by a minority

I met someone who honestly thought Nine Inch Nails invented industrial rock. There's a lot of reasons you could come up with to claim that NIN is overrated, but that guy (who I'm sure isn't alone in drawing that conclusion) isn't a very good reason.

Under your reasoning here, every mainstream band is overrated, because as soon as everyone knows who they are, some uninformed person is going to say something stupid. The more popular they are, the more people like them, the greater the chance that people will walk around saying things that are untrue and misrepresentative.

[Sutekh]

I follow your reasoning and you have me there,. But having thought about it, I guess the diference is that this is the beatles we are talking about here. The reason they are in a sense overrated is because of their immense, unparalelled popularity and the unmatched degree of discussion they merit - in Britain, I guarantee you that every single day, there will be a reference to the beatles in a newspaper. They have a profile that no band can macth, and as such, no band can match the sheer amount of bollocks talked about the beatles

Their profile and stature is so far beyond that of any other band that perhaps you cannot accurately transpose some criticisms onto lesser bands. Yep a couple a people might think NIN invented industrial rock, and you are correct in believing that is not significant, but i honestly wouldnt be surprised if hundreds of thousands think the beatles invented rock, psychedelia etc

i dont know you but in the born villain thread you came across as very snotty when talking to harry seaward (yep even though he should listen to an album of theirs before damning. But it is possible to be right and be a dick while you're at it), and quite frankly you don't know the score on the fact/opinion issue - that other guy was on a blatant troll, but he was right. So basically Im in a circular argument with you over more or less the same issues... Cant help but roll my eyes a bit. But I could be wrong, who cares never mind etc. this bollocks is no doubt beyond tedious for everyone else so im going to give it a kick in the arse

[Kid Charlemagne]

To be fair, Harry Seaward is nothing more than a Marylin Manson fanboy, so he had it coming.

Seriously though, fuck AC/DC.

[Jinsai]

i dont know you but in the born villain thread you came across as very snotty when talking to harry seaward (yep even though he should listen to an album of theirs before damning. But it is possible to be right and be a dick while you're at it),

That guy said "The Beatles are overrated pop bullshit," despite having never listened to an album. That warrants a big "fuck you."


and quite frankly you don't know the score on the fact/opinion issue - that other guy was on a blatant troll, but he was right.

Oh my god...
That guy implied that saying something is "the best" is an objective statement! Jesus Christ... do we really have to go into this again? You have got to be kidding me.

[xmd 5a]

AC/DC irritates the hell out of me. Shame I can't go a day without inadvertently hearing one of their songs somewhere.


Since putting down the drugs Primal Scream suck.


Riot City Blues was almost universally derided (rightfully so, apart from "When the Bomb Drops" and a couple of other decent tracks) and Beautiful Future is fairly love-it-or-hate-it (I lean more toward the former myself), so not all that controversial really. Kevin Shields is back on board for the new album so it should be interesting despite the lack of chemical influence.



Wire were more important than the Sex Pistols.

House Music in the early 90's was better than Grunge.


Agreed.

[Space Suicide]

Just drop the Beatles argument. The thread's intended to state controversial music opinions, not defend bands to the death. In the end, no one's opinion is going to change anyways.

[Jinsai]

agreed about AC/DC. They can be fun in small doses, but it's so repetitive and it all bores the shit out of me on a whole.

And yeah, I also agree that Wire deserves way more love than they get. Their new album wasn't that bad either.

[50 Volt Phantom]

The Beach Boys > The Beatles

[Jinsai]

The Beach Boys > The Beatles

Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums ever made, but other than that, what other album have they put out that even comes close?

[50 Volt Phantom]

Unfortunately we'll never know the true impact that "Smile" would've had had it been completed and released in 67. That said I'm not a Beatles fan anyway, I have listened to them, enjoyed a song here and there, but would join the group who says they are overrated as hell.

[Jinsai]

That said I'm not a Beatles fan anyway, I have listened to them, enjoyed a song here and there, but would join the group who says they are overrated as hell.


Well, that group is certainly in good company now

[frankie teardrop]

overrated:
gang of four (a few good songs)
radiohead (awesome thru hail to the thief, impossible to critique thanks to fan boy posturing)
wilco (ugh)
pavement (ugh ugh)
animal collective (ugh ugh ugh)
happy mondays

in my book, the beatles are obviously geniuses, but i'm pretty sick of hearing their songs. hate paul mccartney.
PIL are far more important than the sex pistols. also agreed about wire > sex pistols, though i prefer chairs missing ---> send far more than pink flag.
berlin-era bowie > glam bowie (love it all, prefer the alomar/davis/etc. run from young americans thru scary monsters)
u2 were GREAT, i'd wager all the way through pop. it's when they started questioning themselves and making safe records that it became a shitshow.

i dunno, most of my controversial opinions are about the current crop of bullshit 80s nostalgia acts who blow up yet can't write a single song with all the production elements and gear they covet.
fuck bands who can't/are horrible at playing live. stop using the punks of 30 years ago as an excuse as to why you can't play daddy's guitar to save your life.

also glad to see so much moz love, but unless i missed it, no appreciation for viva hate?

tom petty rules... great pop craftsman, as far as rock n' roll is concerned. i get so pumped by 'american girl' it's not even funny.

more later as i think of them.

[Jinsai]

i prefer chairs missing ---> send far more than pink flag).

Me too actually... I guess it would fall into the "controversial" category for me to say that Send is actually my favorite Wire album.

[Swykk]

Don't Like At All:

The Beatles
Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
AC/DC
Oasis
At The Drive In/Mars Volta/Sparta
Animal Collective
Sufjan Stevens
pretty much ALL SKA/swing/rockabilly
All things Danzig

[DVYDRNS]

If reznor got flood back on board for some production, things could get interesting again. although flood has bored me as of late as well...

[Ryan]

I think I need to stop looking at this thread. Even when it comes to bands I don't care for, I would never blatantly make some of the venomous comments posted here about them. Makes no sense to me and makes people come across as ignorant and arrogant.

[Sutekh]

I dont think anyone's said anything that bad... ITT; people saying they dont like some bands and they like some others.

Wire are cool but god help me... I prefer elastica. I cant lie to myself

[Jinsai]

Wire are cool but god help me... I prefer elastica. I cant lie to myself

Well, ok, as long as you're willing to admit that they're a derivative rip off who deserved to be sued

[Sutekh]

As opposed to an underivative ripoff :p yep they totally deserved to get sued. They scabbed a stranglers melody too (as did the manics around that time). But i just prefer it. Same as dope show > brimful of asha. In fact we could have a whole thread on the cheekiness of rock bands over the years... Manson is probably the arch offender

[Jinsai]

As opposed to an underivative ripoff :p yep they totally deserved to get sued. They scabbed a stranglers melody too (as did the manics around that time). But i just prefer it. Same as dope show > brimful of asha. In fact we could have a whole thread on the cheekiness of rock bands over the years... Manson is probably the arch offender

Well, Cornershop can't complain about Brimful of Asha given that it could be called a rip off of Summer Babe by Pavement

[Sutekh]

...indeed! If i was twiggy i would have pretended i ripped off pavement instead

One evening i realised that piggy by NIN is more or less the same as an older song... But it escapes me. Answers on a postcard

[aggroculture]

I think I need to stop looking at this thread. Even when it comes to bands I don't care for, I would never blatantly make some of the venomous comments posted here about them. Makes no sense to me and makes people come across as ignorant and arrogant.

This sub-forum's subtitle is "Your favorite band sucks" so I think this thread is in the spirit of that. It's wrong to have sacred cows, bands one isn't allowed to say anything bad about.
Also, as someone else has pointed out, this thread has cultural exchange value: if I say "Tom Petty blows" and someone responds by saying "actually, he is an accomplished pop tunesmith" then maybe I'll be inspired to give Petty another go with new ears.

Other thoughts that have come to mind:

Static-X: very underrated band in the industrial metal genre. TBH I'd rather listen to them than Prong, Ministry, Rob Zombie or Rammstein, most of the time.

Celldweller: so underrated. I think he's the most interesting musician mixing metal and electronics in the last decade, but he plays to a tiny audience. Can't get arrested on this forum.

[keysersoze]

Ok this is fun.
But if we are honest and don't give a fuck what others think of your musical taste it'll be not "controversial"
Anyway.

Megadeth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Metallica

[hobochic]

Jim Morrison, awesome voice, sexy leather pants, awesome beard, terrible poet.

But, he made it work with the music.

[BlueCalx]

I think I need to stop looking at this thread. Even when it comes to bands I don't care for, I would never blatantly make some of the venomous comments posted here about them. Makes no sense to me and makes people come across as ignorant and arrogant.

To each their own, but I don't agree at all. I think this thread serves loads of different, useful purposes. For one thing, it can be an awful lot of fun to purge some bile about acts that are, to you personally, unlistenable but are so much a part of pop culture that they're inescapable. For another, it makes for an enjoyable thought exercise to slaughter pop culture sacred cows like Joy Division, Pavement, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, or whatever your poison is. If you can be a bit objective about music you love, you might come away with a deeper appreciation for it through acknowledging its flaws. The reverse is true, as well - if you can force yourself to engage with music you've decided is crap, and have a talk with its fans and defenders, you might leave with one less Thing You Hate. I guess it's all attitude - if you come in here and see a lot of sniping and shit-talking, you're right. If you come in and see a bunch of hardcore music fans having a laugh and broadening their minds, you're right as well.

[BlueCalx]

Oh, hey, and let's talk a little bit more about Pavement and how bad they suck. Here's The Fall without the danger or charisma, here's Sonic Youth without the musical know-how or sense of fearlessness. That this band is so widely revered has always made me feel like the victim of some huge, cosmic prank. You mean to tell me that you hear music in these stoners strangling their instruments? Are you fucking joking?

[frankie teardrop]

didn't mean to facepalm you there, bluecalx. i just got so excited about your post that i tried to hit like twice.

[BlueCalx]

didn't mean to facepalm you there, bluecalx. i just got so excited about your post that i tried to hit like twice.

...and that, to me, is the greatest compliment. ^_^

[aggroculture]

I totally agree, I hate Pavement, and Stephen Malkmus solo even more.
And yet, and yet...Range Life is a good song.
I think we need Kid Charlemagne in here to the rescue.

[PooPooMeowChow]

AC/DC is for kids.

[Frozen Beach]

AC/DC is for Call Of Duty players.
Fixed that for you.

[Magtig]

Man, no love for AC/DC, really? Yes, every single one of their albums has a collection of songs that all sound the same, but if you take one or two songs off each one you have this fucking masterpiece (http://www.amazon.com/AC-DC-Live/dp/B00008BXJJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337022672&sr=8-1). If this album doesn't get your blood pumping you're Johnny Depp in a Tim Burton movie. I like AC/DC because they aren't pretentious or whiny, they're simple straight forward kickass rock. If you go in thinking they're poets, or not deep enough, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Frozen Beach]

Thunderstruck is an awesome song, I do say. That beginning is fucking epic.

[Sutekh]

IMO Highway to Hell is absolutely rock solid & one of the best rock albums ever. not top ten material, but definitely top 25/50. The rest I can take or leave, but nonetheless they kept on cutting the odd amazing tune after Bon died (back in black, hells bells, thunderstruck, for those about to rock and so on)

but yep like Motorhead and Iron Maiden they are limited & you'd really have to be something of a nutter to buy more than 2 or 3 albums. Great live act, textbook stadium spectacle

I wouldn't have thought this a controversial opinion, but judging from what I've read here it might be - I like pretty much everything NIN has done. I think Sober, 2005 and onwards NIN is great. It's not the same as the early stuff, but then to be honest the early era lacks a few things going on now - live, TR just seems to have so much more energy.

I do see it as a different band in the way The Cure after Kiss me Kiss me is a different band, or New Order, sober Nick Cave, MM or PiL these days etc. I won't try and rationalise it too much, because I am a terrible fanboy.

But yeah, NIN stuff I don't like it pretty much limited to a few songs off With Teeth and Ghosts

[Jinsai]

Oh, hey, and let's talk a little bit more about Pavement and how bad they suck. Here's The Fall without the danger or charisma, here's Sonic Youth without the musical know-how or sense of fearlessness. That this band is so widely revered has always made me feel like the victim of some huge, cosmic prank. You mean to tell me that you hear music in these stoners strangling their instruments? Are you fucking joking?

Well, I totally didn't mean to like this post, but oops. Wish i could undo that actually, because I really disagree. Pavement were awesome, Crooked Rain is one of my favorite albums... And really, out of all the criticism you could throw their way, I just don't follow you on the charisma shot at all

[henryeatscereal]

Never understood the appeal of Bjork. I flat out don't like her music.
I dont like her and i don't respect her, i think she had the blessing to be with really good producers/musicians but she's flat, she thinks she can sell her music by being just "cute", i heard people call her "Bjerk" because her pretentious and ignorant attitude...

[frankie teardrop]

sober Nick Cave

speaking of which, i feel like i'm the only person in the world who can't stand the badseeds past abattoir blues/lyre of orpheus. hate grinderman, and dig lazarus dig while boasting a few decent tracks, didn't do much for me, especially given the amount of critical fapping.

like many of you and the trent/moulder thing, i could do without the nick cave/warren ellis bromance that's dominated his work for ages, especially when ellis is no longer playing violin (a role i thought he was amazing at on boatman's call, no more shall we part, and obv. dirty three).

[Frozen Beach]

he thinks she can sell her music by being just "cute"
She doesn't do that anymore. It stopped when her stalker tried to kill her. I think she realized the crazies that it attracts.

[aggroculture]

I don't like any Nick Cave that I've heard. His music seems so bland. I don't get what people see in him.

I like Bjork's Debut and some tracks off Post, and then I lost interest. Army of Me is a great song. Helmet covered it. Isobel is also a great song, remixed, among others, by Carcass.


Matt Johnson of The The is the most underrated British musician ever.

Agree. Followed by Raymond Watts. Pig's Sinsation is one of my favourite industrial albums of all time.

[PooPooMeowChow]

Beastie Boys are(were) the best rappers.

[BlueCalx]

Well, I totally didn't mean to like this post, but oops. Wish i could undo that actually, because I really disagree. Pavement were awesome, Crooked Rain is one of my favorite albums... And really, out of all the criticism you could throw their way, I just don't follow you on the charisma shot at all

Yeah, it's the different strokes thing coming out strongly. A lot of my friends and some of my favourite music writers are big Pavement fans, and my dislike is so strong and immovable that it feels genetically hardwired, like how certain people taste cilantro as soap. I've tried, I really have. I own Slanted on vinyl and have had friends play their other records for me, and it all just sounds like an ugly, unmelodic mess. I don't see any charisma in Malkmus, he reminds me of a less unhappy, better-educated version of Trent from the old TV show Daria. To his credit, he's aged well. Good for you if you like 'em. Apparently, there's a lot of worth there, but I don't think I'll ever see it for myself.

[BlueCalx]

speaking of which, i feel like i'm the only person in the world who can't stand the badseeds past abattoir blues/lyre of orpheus. hate grinderman, and dig lazarus dig while boasting a few decent tracks, didn't do much for me, especially given the amount of critical fapping.

Nope, I'm right there with you. Grinderman has one song I don't totally hate, the rest of everything after Lyre/Abbatoir ​reminds me of everything that's silly and contrived about latter-day Tim Burton.

[frankie teardrop]

that's a perfect analogy. i was so enticed by the grinderman project- how they were namechecking the raw days of the birthday party and getting back to the nitty gritty side of things. unfortunately, the end result was a bunch of borrowed garage riffs from 50 years ago coupled with the sexual innuendos you'd expect from a 14 year old with a decent SAT vocab. unfortunately, dig lazarus dig, while better, didn't change the sound template much, just had better subject matter.

[Jinsai]

well, to be fair, he's only put out one Bad Seeds album since Lyre/Abbatoir... and the live show for Dig Lazarus Dig was awesome, even if the album doesn't do much for me.

[Frozen Beach]

Best part about Nick Cave is his voice. I want that voice. It sounds like the voice of a man who killed someone in cold blood, left them for dead and didn't give a shit. It fits the concept of Murder Ballads perfectly.

[allegro]

I didn't, and still don't, like The Band. At all. Bleh.

[xmd 5a]

I enjoy Grinderman's first album (second ranges from meh to okay) and Dig Lazarus Dig! is up there with Your Funeral... My Trial and From Her to Eternity IMHO, so will have to respectfully disagree with the above Cave opinions.

As for Pavement, I recently bought the deluxe edition CDs of all their albums on a whim and am slowly working my way through. They've got some great tracks, but I don't have a solid opinion either way on them yet.

[aggroculture]

Sebadoh > Dinosaur Jr.

[xmd 5a]

I wouldn't have thought this a controversial opinion, but judging from what I've read here it might be - I like pretty much everything NIN has done. I think Sober, 2005 and onwards NIN is great. It's not the same as the early stuff, but then to be honest the early era lacks a few things going on now - live, TR just seems to have so much more energy.


I'll agree with this. With Teeth is the album that got me into NIN and Year Zero and The Slip sound great to these ears.

[Jinsai]

Sebadoh > Dinosaur Jr.

http://www.unbrokensky.sweet-redemption.net/gifs/colbert-scream.gif


....anyway


One evening i realised that piggy by NIN is more or less the same as an older song... But it escapes me. Answers on a postcard

Reznor has his moments of questionable plagiarism. "A Warm Place" is basically a cover of "Crystal Japan" by David Bowie, and I was shocked when I first heard Getting Smaller... I wonder if he was consciously aping "Planet of Sound" by The Pixies, or if it was completely unintentional. Either way, it's really bad how close they are.

Also, since Wire is getting their fair shake in here, I might as well say that "Beside You in Time" owes quite a bit to the Wire song "Mr Marx's Table."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L83NHmMHEw4&feature=player_embedded#!

[allegro]

Sting said:


I don't think there's very much original in what I do. In pop music, there's no such thing as composition. We collate from pre-existing tropes and then the originality comes in the interpretation.

[Magtig]

Thunderstruck is an awesome song, I do say. That beginning is fucking epic.
It's ten times more epic on that live album I linked to; it blows the studio version completely out of the water.

[Jinsai]

Sting said: I don't think there's very much original in what I do. In pop music, there's no such thing as composition. We collate from pre-existing tropes and then the originality comes in the interpretation.

To be fair, that's a far cry from covering a song and not giving credit (Crystal Japan/A Warm Place)

Also, while I'm in this thread, let me say fuck The Police

and one reason why Daft Punk is overrated as all hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4

[BRoswell]

and one reason why Daft Punk is overrated as all hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4

Because they sample? Do you know how many artists and bands have sampled from other artists and bands (including our own Nine Inch Nails)? Sampling is such a common occurrence in music. I don't see how you could single out Daft Punk for doing it and not other musicians. Besides, techno and hip hop are two genres of music that THRIVE on sampling. Sampling also can act as a gateway to other music, so I don't see the issue here.

[Jinsai]

Because they sample? Do you know how many artists and bands have sampled from other artists and bands (including our own Nine Inch Nails)? Sampling is such a common occurrence in music. I don't see how you could single out Daft Punk for doing it and not other musicians. Besides, techno and hip hop are two genres of music that THRIVE on sampling. Sampling also can act as a gateway to other music, so I don't see the issue here.

I have no problem with sampling, I have an issue with taking a song, changing practically nothing, and then calling it a new song.

[allegro]

Also, while I'm in this thread, let me say fuck The Police
I 'd pay to fuck Sting. But I wouldn't fuck the Police.


Tori Amos: LOVED "Little Earthquakes." Hate absolutely everything after that. I can't understand what the fuck she's talking about on any album after L.E. The lyrics require a decoder guide book.

I hate REM.

I hate Dire Straits.

I really only love the first three U2 albums.

I don't listen to any NIN albums made after TDS. Ever. (Remastered PHM is currently in my car CD player.)

I caught myself singing along, loudly, to old Bob Segar today (Live Bullet) and I still know all the words and I'm not ashamed to admit this. He started to really suck after Live Bullet, though.

[Jinsai]

Tori Amos: LOVED "Little Earthquakes." Hate absolutely everything after that. I can't understand what the fuck she's talking about on any album after L.E. The lyrics require a decoder guide book.

I guess I'm the opposite there. I really like Boys for Pele, Under the Pink, and From the Choirgirl Hotel. Hate everything after that, and I don't care for the sentimentality of Little Earthquakes. It's one of the few examples where the general lyrical tone bothers the hell out of me. I guess I actually prefer obtuse and strange lyrics that are open to bizarre interpretation. I don't like listening to someone tell me about their feelings. I prefer emotional lyrical content to be something batshit

I also hate Dire Straits.

I'm also sick of hearing people tell me that Jethro Tull was actually a good band.

[hellospaceboy]

Billy Corgan has the WORST singing voice ever, whoever was the first mofo to tell him that he should sing in a band needs to be severely punished.

While their first album had some good bits, I think Radiohead is the single most overrated band on the planet. It just drives me insane, I suspect Thom Yorke might be fighting an extreme case of narcolepsy, because he always seem to be falling asleep mid-song. Snooze-fest. And don't even get me started on Coldplay!

As much as I want to like it, I just can't bring myself to accept How To Destroy Angels. I'm still not over just how mediocre the whole project turned out. And the closing song on the GWTDT soundtrack was embarrassing, I was in the theater with friends and I told them ahead of time that we'll sit through the end credits to listen to the music, and my heart sank because it was awful.

[Jinsai]

I understand the "radiohead are overrated" argument, but I don't understand the "Pablo Honey is their best album" thing. I refuse to believe that anyone has taste that bad, and I'd really appreciate it if you could just tell me that you were trolling.

[Frozen Beach]

You is the best Radiohead song. Well, in my opinion of course.

[Jinsai]

You is the best Radiohead song. Well, in my opinion of course.

it's a great song, and so is Lurgee, but come on. Pablo Honey is not Radiohead's best album, it's their worst, and it's interesting, but really, come on.

also, I felt the need to defend my opinion that Tori Amos was actually fucking awesome. She was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpLCFph9iv4

I have no idea what the fuck happened

[hellospaceboy]

I understand the "radiohead are overrated" argument, but I don't understand the "Pablo Honey is their best album" thing. I refuse to believe that anyone has taste that bad, and I'd really appreciate it if you could just tell me that you were trolling.

Well, I remember listening to that album when it came out, and I thought that it had a couple of decent rock/grunge moments, but I hoped that the band will pick up the tempo a bit because everything tended to be whiny and slow... And they moved in the total opposite direction. The talent is there, I just hate the type of music they ended up playing. Less rock, more whine.


But I apologize if my comments made it sound like Radiohead had a good album :)

[allegro]

Geddy Lee's voice is like Billy Corgan being grabbed by the nuts.

I can't stand Neil Peart's percussion.

I don't get all the love for HTDA.

I can't stand Gary Newman.

Jethro Tull had a few good songs but the rest is just background music for one-hit bong sessions.

I don't understand the lyrics to any song on "In Utero."

Ditto for a lot of David Bowie songs.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpLCFph9iv4
I have no idea what the fuck happened
... to her accent. What the fuck is up with that? "Can" = "keeyaaaan." we had a funny ETS discussion about Tori's fake accent once and somebody typed "vaNEEEEELAAA" and it still makes me laugh.

[Sutekh]

I felt Amnesiac was the best Radiohead album & I know I'm pretty much alone on that. It has the thickest atmosphere & best variety of styles - whilst remaining cohesive as a whole. It is sooo depressing as well, I love it

My mrs once remarked how it's funny that Billy Corgan looks like an egg yet sounds like a duck

[koz-ivan]

I guess I'm the opposite there. I really like Boys for Pele, Under the Pink, and From the Choirgirl Hotel. Hate everything after that, and I don't care for the sentimentality of Little Earthquakes. It's one of the few examples where the general lyrical tone bothers the hell out of me. I guess I actually prefer obtuse and strange lyrics that are open to bizarre interpretation. I don't like listening to someone tell me about their feelings. I prefer emotional lyrical content to be something batshit

all of the above are her best records, though i prefer little earthquakes, beyond that she's had some good tracks here and there but none of her other albums made much of an impression.

---

bjork - i tend to want to like her music more than i like her music, i can respect the craft and that she's at least trying to push her boundaries and experiment, but the end results to me do tend to sound more like experiments.

[DVYDRNS]

Hate radiohead. Just hate em.

Joy division is better than new order.

Hating Metallica isn't controversial. It's warranted. They suck badly these days. And even if they were still good, their attitude and antics are more than just cause for hating them.
Watch some kind of monster and I'm sure you'll agree.

Devo... Have some good tracks. They do. But they get to hold the overrated torch in my book.

EBM music. Holy crap. It's imploded upon itself. I used to love front 242 now I get annoyed that they ever coined the term. Not their fault obviously. I guess I should blame bands like vnv nation for ruining a once beloved genre.

Bjork is over rated as hell. I liked her when I was younger for sake of liking someone no one else did perhaps. Granted she has some AMAZING material but that's mostly peppered throughout her first couple of records and a bit on vespertine.

A place to bury strangers is one of the most underrated bands of our generation. Oliver is the single most likable musician I've ever had the pleasure of working with and hanging out with.

Zola Jesus needs to be gigantic.

Al Jorgensen shouldn't have been revived. Ever. He ruined everything.

Silversun pickups are better than their muse. Smashing pumpkins. Unless we're talking about Siamese dream. That album is untouchable. Screw Mellencollie though. That album is so damn bad it blows my mind. It has a couple good tracks here and there but as an album it's just so damn bloated and arrogant.

The fragile was reznors best work. Hands down.

Skinny puppy are the last true industrial band Doug anything worthy of being called industrial. And they're sober. How's that supposed to work. I dont know but it does.

KMFDM is a joke now. If they ever want any of my money ever again, get Raymond back on board. Lucia ruined that band. Yea she's hot as hell but it all went downhill shortly after she came on board. She had 2 maybe 3 good contributions.

I should start my blog back up and dedicate it to destroying bands. Heh.

[fillow]

Okay, here we go. I've got something everyone would disagree with too.

Tool: 10KD > Aenima
APC: eMotive is very good record
David Bowie: Earthling and Never Let Me Down, and both Tin Machine albums are awesome. (They all are awesome, I just picked the ones that I saw being thrashed the most)
Pmpkins: Machina is awesome album and Teargarden stuff is also pretty good
The Prodigy: Invaders Must Die is too much dubstep and therefore sucks monkey balls
KMFDM: WWIII is their best album and I can't stand half of their output from the ninetees
Gorillaz: first album just sucks, aside from a couple of tracks
Joy Division >>>>> New Order

finally, the bands I hate: Animal Collective, The Black Keys, Beastie Boys, The Killers, At the Drive-in, The White Stripes, i can go on forever.

there, i finished.

[allegro]

The fragile was reznors best work. Hands down.
On THIS board, this is not a controversial music opinion.^^



I love the Beatles but Sgt. Pepper's is my least favorite Beatles album. That's not totally controversial among Beatlemaniacs, but it's probably a little controversial on a non-Beatlemania forum (like this one). Ditto for this: I fucking HATE Magical Mystery Tour, the song the album the anything Magical Fucking Mystery Tour.

(btw, PAUL is playing lead guitar on "Helter Skelter" for those of you who seem to be a little confused about Paul. He also wrote the song.)

"Killer" was Alice Cooper's last great album.

I hate people who hate Radiohead.

Some of my least favorite classical music was written by Mozart. I still haven't figured out why, but I've tried to like him for many years and he has a few wonderful moments but for the most part I find him to be a giant overblown snooze fest.

[Sutekh]

The Prodigy: Invaders Must Die is too much dubstep and therefore sucks monkey balls


Dubstep? Dunno about that
Problem was it sounded too much like Pendulum! Chicken/Egg scenario going on there

[WorzelG]

I don't get all the love for HTDA.

How is this controversial though? Even on fanboards the majority opinion seems to be dislike. I was starting to wonder if I was listening to the same music? How can anyone dislike the song 'A Drowning'?? Apart from a few people on the forum here (literally 5 or 6) where is the Radiohead / Beatles style fanboy love you're suggesting?

[allegro]

Apart from a few people on the forum here (literally 5 or 6) where is the Radiohead / Beatles style fanboy love you're suggesting?
I didn't suggest love or fanboy. Where are you seeing that in this thread? Have you read this whole thread? (the MMT comment referred to the old ETS, not this thread, people in the know will know what I'm talking about)

edit: Admittedly, the only things I'd seen about HTDA were a few items in the HTDA forum on this board, and they all seemed to be drool-fests and I wondered if I was some kind of anomaly and stopped reading, since I couldn't seem to relate to any of it. This is about baring our souls about what could possibly be considered controversial. I think. I could be wrong.

I don't see the point of arguing other people's opinions in this thread, since everybody is entitled to their opinion and arguing about it is useless.

So, I'll stick to the point of the thread:

I hate (pretty much) all David Bowie past "Scary Monsters."

[WorzelG]

^^^
okay an exaggeration - but where is 'all the love' ? I'm actually curious that there's some site in the corner of the internet I don't know about
^^fair enough,

^^^
I really liked the Outside album by Bowie although it got pretty panned - A small plot of land is a work of genius IMO

[allegro]

^^^
okay an exaggeration - but where is 'all the love' ? I'm actually curious that there's some site in the corner of the internet I don't know about
Go peruse here: http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/forums/9-How-to-Destroy-Angels


drift = off

[henryeatscereal]

I think "Yo la tengo" is one of the best bands ever, and they could have conquered the world if they wanted to

[Minpin]

In Rainbows is my favourite radiohead album.

Also love Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds but don't like the Birthday Party. Rowland s Howard was pretty unique on guitar, not in an enjoyable way.

EDIT: vvvv I truly hope I'm not part of that holier than thou fan base. My love of in rainbows is probably shallow, kinda like how my favourite song ever is George Harrisons (I've got my mind) Set on you ;)

[frankie teardrop]

i am in agreeance about tori amos for the most part. everything from earthquakes through from the choir girl hotel was pretty boss in my youth, but what came after makes those records out to be little more than a guilty pleasure. and yes, her nasally extended syllables are HORRIBLE, even on her best material. she's always walked a fine line between awesome passion and righteous fury and middle school "don't know any better" technique, which makes it really hit or miss.

pablo honey, while boasting some excellent songs, is nothing more than another band trying to ride the coattails of a sound that was popular at the time. the missus also thinks it's the only worthwhile radiohead album. i think that's a common opinion for people who aren't fans of the band, it just always baffles me...

i'm with everyone who agrees that amnesiac is the best radiohead record. ok computer is amazing too, but i'm always reaching for that underdog these days.

my only issues with radiohead regard the last two records (can't stand them, outside of 'all i need,' 'videotape,' and 'nude') and their holier than thou fanbase, which while the latter is no fault of the band's, it still is a huge turnoff.

[frankie teardrop]

On THIS board, this is not a controversial music opinion.


I love the Beatles but Sgt. Pepper's is my least favorite Beatles album. That's not totally controversial among Beatlemaniacs, but it's probably a little controversial on a non-Beatlemania forum (like this one). Ditto for this: I fucking HATE Magical Mystery Tour, the song the album the anything Magical Fucking Mystery Tour.
i have no scruples with the beatles outside never really needing to hear them again, but i agree about sgt. pepper being my least favorite of the latter-run. white album all the way...

also, outside of mozart's requiem, i don't care much for his works either.

in response to joymode, i fucking HATE zola jesus. a talented singer and a nice girl, but can't write a song for shit and rests her laurels upon a strong vocal, which becomes stale once you realize there's no music there. it's not controversial to love her though, she's a critical darling.

[danebraddy]

Diamond Dogs > Aladdin Sane > Ziggy Stardust

[Highly Psychological]

best thing BJork did was Birthday with The Sugarcubes in 1987 that song is so good its unreal.

[allegro]

One of my guilty pleasures is blasting and dancing around to (or driving really fast while listening to) all of "Debut."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Dc1LEn4AM

[frankie teardrop]

i'm more or less done with bjork after homogenic, though i have big love for those first three solo outings. agreed about the greatness of the first sugarcubes record. hell of an album.

[hobochic]

Kasabian - pretty boys with fuzz guitars, a little too self conscious "vintage" style and incredibly boring music

Black Rebel MC-Club - I thought they were kinda interesting for a while but looking back they've left no lasting impressions - aside from a couple of songs. they could win me back if they released one solid album where they try something new.

the white stripes - i thought their "look, no bass but look what we can do" thing got old with the first couple of singles. They're (jack) exactly what I despise about the concept "celebrity". His other bands come off as empty shells resembling real bands, but I get the feeling they're just a little too concerned with appealing to the "right" fans and "right" people in the business. That goes for all three bands i mentioned.

[Jinsai]

Amnesiac is the best Radiohead album.

I'm a little surprised by the Mozart dislike going on here. Maybe I just assumed that everyone loved his music, and I've never run into anyone who didn't, but I've always been obsessed with Mozart.

[allegro]

Go listen to Beethoven's 7th and become un-obsessed with Mozart.

[Deus Ex Machina]

also, outside of mozart's requiem, i don't care much for his works either.

Don't get me started. I've not heard anything other than his requiem that didn't sound like one big jerkoff session. The man did not compose, he just ran Haydn's tonal harmony formula over and over and over, with no thought to why or when. I find most music from the Classical period bland as fuck (1750 and 1824), but you can tell that composers were still exploring and stretching what the 'Classical' palate could do; finding ways to make their new musical ideas, experiments, and intuitions fit in that box. Not Mozart. Makes a ton of noise, never challenges the listener. Lowest filler to content ratio with the exception of some kinds of smooth jazz and elevator music.

[allegro]

The fucking repetition drives me NUTS. Especially when it's LIVE. Ugh, I nearly lapse into a coma.

I've seen Uchida conduct Mozart (CSO) at least 3 times and the only interesting part was Uchida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dkK1iw2SMk

[Frozen Beach]

it's a great song, and so is Lurgee, but come on. Pablo Honey is not Radiohead's best album, it's their worst, and it's interesting, but really, come on.


Oh, I agree that Pablo Honey isn't their best album. I was just stating that I really love You. The Pablo Honey material really shines better live, especially at the Astoria performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGkLy2yt8A

[Jinsai]

Go listen to Beethoven's 7th and become un-obsessed with Mozart.

I love Beethoven. I might prefer Beethoven... Depends on my mood and who's playing it.
Mozart is still awesome. Who doesn't love symphony 25?



Don't get me started. I've not heard anything other than his requiem that didn't sound like one big jerkoff session. The man did not compose, he just ran Haydn's tonal harmony formula over and over and over, with no thought to why or when. I find most music from the Classical period bland as fuck (1750 and 1824), but you can tell that composers were still exploring and stretching what the 'Classical' palate could do; finding ways to make their new musical ideas, experiments, and intuitions fit in that box. Not Mozart. Makes a ton of noise, never challenges the listener. Lowest filler to content ratio with the exception of some kinds of smooth jazz and elevator music.

I disagree so fucking much. It's just not true to say that Mozart didn't challenge his audience or experiment with new ideas. I can't believe you're comparing one of the greatest composers who ever lived to elevator music. It makes me sad.

This is so surreal. Everyone's always telling me that I'm too negative about music and that I hate on everything.

[Rdm]

On THIS board, this is not a controversial music opinion.^^

I hate people who hate Radiohead.


HA!

I hate people who hate The National . :p

I don't enjoy listening to the black keys music. I have a hard time understanding why so many people do. I hated seeing them headlining Coachella. Although, Coachella has had worse headliners, but the black keys being so famous in the " indie scene" has left a bad taste in my mouth and I have no idea why. It is probably due to the fact so many people on my Facebook tried to tell me their last album was the album of the year.

[ltrandazzo]

Year Zero is my favorite Nine Inch Nails record.

[BlueCalx]

Hey, yeah, The National. Another band I never understood the appeal of. Their music seems so grim-faced and leaden, like a depressive, macho Arcade Fire or an unsexy Afghan Whigs. It's the sort of music that I imagine taking up a lot of space on Marv from Sin City's iPod. Totally with you, though, on the Black Keys. There's nothing to engage with in their music, it's like rock music as performed hundreds of years in the future by a band of skilled imitators employed by a museum. "Yup, this is what they liked back then! Isn't it neat and primitive?"

[frankie teardrop]

i wanted to like the national so much. i heard they were dark, brooding, intense, all on 4ad, a brand i used to trust with all my heart*. pretty much spoke to all the things i look for in a new band. but all i really got was a little darkness on the edge of town vibe with some effects pedals. goth-y for kids who like wilco. not to say i despise them or anything, but they just don't click or resonate with me.




*this label, with the exception of scott walker now, just hasn't been the same since ivo left in the 90s. 4ad in name only at this point.

[orestes]

Jinsai, I'm with you on the Mozart love, although nowadays my tastes swings more to Baroque music, especially Lully.

[BenAkenobi]

Audioslave >>> RATM
APC: Thirteenth step > Emotive > Mer de noms

[Space Suicide]

Audioslave >>> RATM
APC: Thirteenth step > Emotive > Mer de noms

Agreed on both statements, except swap out eMOTIVe to the last spot.

[Amaro]

Great thread for quick grabs of music I forgot about, never heard of, or never got around to listening to. Thanks, folks. But I do also love reading strongly differing opinions. :p

[carpenoctem]

Radiohead is boring, boring, boring.

Lana Del Rey is way better than most people give her credit for, especially because almost no one has anything to say about her music; they're too busy trashing her image and overall aesthetic. I think she could be really big.

Linkin Park are incredible songwriters and still make some of the easiest, most relatable music of our times. There's no learning curve; it's instantly enjoyable music but it's not disposable, it still sounds great for years afterwards.

Animal Collective will probably not be fully appreciated until after they're all dead, but what they do is unreal, from-another-planet crazy amazing. No one has ever made music like this before. They are game changers, and they're extremely prolific (8 albums, 4 EPs, 2 live albums, a "visual album", an interactive music installation that changes every time you use it, and numerous solo records and side projects, all in little over a decade).

Joanna Newsom's voice will go down as one of the best and most distinctive of our generation. And her music is incredible. She's our Joni Mitchell.

[allegro]

I love Beethoven. I might prefer Beethoven... Depends on my mood and who's playing it.
Mozart is still awesome. Who doesn't love symphony 25?
As I said, I don't hate ALL Mozart, there are certainly some very beautiful and powerful pieces that I love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTc1mDieQI8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s

[Jinsai]

Animal Collective will probably not be fully appreciated until after they're all dead

The critics are endlessly fellating everything they do. I think it's safe to say that their bullshit is appreciated.


No one has ever made music like this before.

No one? Not even The Beach Boys or Syd Barrett? Animal Collective didn't invent psychedelic pop. Have you ever listened to Ummagumma?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVzij4HF4wM

[BlueCalx]

The critics are endlessly fellating everything they do. I think it's safe to say that their bullshit is appreciated... Animal Collective didn't invent psychedelic pop. Have you ever listened to Ummagumma?

I'm no Animal Collective fan, but I don't think this is right at all. By 'the critics' I presume you mean Pitchfork, who've promoted Animal Collective for some time now, but they hardly represent a consensus or speak for other pop writers. I've found that for every Pitchfork writer who thinks what they do is terrific, there are three or four coming around to say "overrated", "tuneless", "pretentious", "wanky", etc. I've heard this band compared to Phish, of all things. I'm nowhere near into Animal Collective enough to launch a big defense of them, but there is more going on with them than just faux-Floyd, and they are pushing their genre in exciting new directions. If we must have indie, I'd take sixty Animal Collectives over one The Shins.

[Space Suicide]

Joanna Newsom's voice will go down as one of the best and most distinctive of our generation. And her music is incredible. She's our Joni Mitchell.

I don't bet on it. Hardly anyone's heard of her and I don't think she's all that astonishing.

Oh, Animal Collective suck. Echoing those sentiments.

[BlueCalx]

OK, so my work day's winding down and I'm bored. Time to weigh in on Radiohead, since it's what everyone else hanging around here is doing.

Pablo Honey: Life's too short to spend much time with this one. "Anyone Can Play Guitar" is a nice tune, but I hate "Creep" with the kind of intensity that I usually reserve for crap like Karmin. I'm basically with Jinsai on this, I think you have to be looking for a reaction to want to talk too much about how great this record is.

The Bends: I feel the same way about this as I do about a lot of their music - that it's very good, but that I never feel compelled to listen to it. It may have been built in a lab.

OK Computer:I only ever want to hear this during long drives.

Kid A/Amnesiac: The pinnacle, for me. This is the sort of music I wish they'd always make. By sheer coincidence, these albums are my entry point into the catalogue.

Hail to the Thief: Crap.

In Rainbows: I only played this one twice. Never felt like I was missing much. It just didn't stick.

The King of Limbs: This album made me more excited about them than I've been in ages. This is exactly what I want to hear from Radiohead. I've played it to death.

[Jinsai]

I'm no Animal Collective fan, but I don't think this is right at all. By 'the critics' I presume you mean Pitchfork, who've promoted Animal Collective for some time now, but they hardly represent a consensus or speak for other pop writers. I've found that for every Pitchfork writer who thinks what they do is terrific, there are three or four coming around to say "overrated", "tuneless", "pretentious", "wanky", etc. I've heard this band compared to Phish, of all things. I'm nowhere near into Animal Collective enough to launch a big defense of them, but there is more going on with them than just faux-Floyd, and they are pushing their genre in exciting new directions. If we must have indie, I'd take sixty Animal Collectives over one The Shins.

It's not just Pitchfork (http://www.metacritic.com/music/merriweather-post-pavilion/critic-reviews)

I don't hate Animal Collective, they have a few songs that I like (For Reverend Green, Summertime Clothes). Even if they have a lot of songs that irritate the hell out of me (that Open up Your Throat song, or the entire Sung Tongs album), sure, I'd much rather have a trippy weird group like AC than some generic bullshit like The Shins. My main issue here is with statements along the lines of "they aren't getting their due appreciation" or "no one has ever made music like this before." It's just not true.

[carpenoctem]

No one? Not even The Beach Boys or Syd Barrett?

No one. :)

And the Beach Boys jab is lame; no one is under the impression that Panda Bear invented multi-part harmonies in 2009.


Animal Collective didn't invent psychedelic pop. Have you ever listened to Ummagumma?

I didn't say they did, but they are great at it. And no, I haven't heard of Ummagumma, maybe I should check them out. And if I happen to like them, I'm sure it will in no way diminish my love of Animal Collective or suddenly make me realize, in a lightning-bolt epiphany, that they are pretentious talentless hacks cribbing off their psych-pop predecessors.


I don't bet on it. Hardly anyone's heard of her [Joanna Newsom] and I don't think she's all that astonishing.

Define "hardly anyone." At any rate, she's got a small hard core of fans that love her and it's only bound to increase as she releases future material.

[Jinsai]

No one. :)

And the Beach Boys jab is lame; no one is under the impression that Panda Bear invented multi-part harmonies in 2009.



I didn't say they did. And no, I haven't heard of Ummagumma, maybe I should check them out. And if I happen to like them, I'm sure it will in no way diminish my love of Animal Collective or suddenly make me realize, in a lightning-bolt epiphany, that they are pretentious talentless hacks cribbing off their psych-pop predecessors.

Ummagumma is a Pink Floyd album from 1969. The Beach Boys similarity isn't just because of the harmonies and vocals. Brian Wilson has made some really odd psychedelic pop music. I'm not saying you need to change your opinion about them, I'm just pointing out why the "no one has ever made music like this before" comment is off.

[Space Suicide]

No one. :)

And the Beach Boys jab is lame; no one is under the impression that Panda Bear invented multi-part harmonies in 2009.



I didn't say they did. And no, I haven't heard of Ummagumma, maybe I should check them out. And if I happen to like them, I'm sure it will in no way diminish my love of Animal Collective or suddenly make me realize, in a lightning-bolt epiphany, that they are pretentious talentless hacks cribbing off their psych-pop predecessors.

You are aware Ummagumma is a Pink Floyd album right? Sarcasm doesn't translate well in text if that's what you're doing.

[BlueCalx]

It's not just Pitchfork (http://www.metacritic.com/music/merriweather-post-pavilion/critic-reviews)

I don't hate Animal Collective, they have a few songs that I like (For Reverend Green, Summertime Clothes). Even if they have a lot of songs that irritate the hell out of me (that Open up Your Throat song, or the entire Sung Tongs album), sure, I'd much rather have a trippy weird group like AC than some generic bullshit like The Shins. My main issue here is with statements along the lines of "they aren't getting their due appreciation" or "no one has ever made music like this before." It's just not true.

Hey, yeah, fair, Merriweather Post Pavilion was universally loved by big-name publications upon its release and the buzz around that album was unreal. I remember Hipster Runoff doing a fantastic piece about it back then. I didn't read what carpenoctem said as "Animal Collective is underappreciated by critics", though, I read it as "Animal Collective are influencing pop music a lot right now, in more ways than just the obvious ones, and some of the ideas that they're bringing to the table will still be relevant, and will only be appreciated by listeners years and decades down the line". Animal Collective are critics' darlings, but they're critics' darlings in the same way that, say, Andrei Tarkovsky movies are. They're high-concept, they require a long attention span to appreciate, they don't care all that much about traditional structure, and they still manage to appeal to a decent amount of the mainstream audience. Because of that, it's really easy for cynics to come around and say that Animal Collective (and/or Tarkovsky movies) are stupid hipster art-fuck things that no one really understands, and that their audience pretends to like them to feel cool. Maybe people do pretend to like Animal Collective to feel cool, but god, I hate a cynic.

[carpenoctem]

Hey, yeah, fair, Merriweather Post Pavilion was universally loved by big-name publications upon its release and the buzz around that album was unreal. I remember Hipster Runoff doing a fantastic piece about it back then. I didn't read what carpenoctem said as "Animal Collective is underappreciated by critics", though, I read it as "Animal Collective are influencing pop music a lot right now, in more ways than just the obvious ones, and some of the ideas that they're bringing to the table will still be relevant, and will only be appreciated by listeners years and decades down the line". Animal Collective are critics' darlings, but they're critics' darlings in the same way that, say, Andrei Tarkovsky movies are. They're high-concept, they require a long attention span to appreciate, they don't care all that much about traditional structure, and they still manage to appeal to a decent amount of the mainstream audience. Because of that, it's really easy for cynics to come around and say that Animal Collective (and/or Tarkovsky movies) are stupid hipster art-fuck things that no one really understands, and that their audience pretends to like them to feel cool. Maybe people do pretend to like Animal Collective to feel cool, but god, I hate a cynic.

Calx, are you me? Because, this.

@Space Suicide and Jinsai - No, I wasn't aware that Ummagumma was a Pink Floyd album; I'm not a fan, and I only know their most popular ones (The Wall, Dark Side). Please don't lol at me. :eek:

[xmd 5a]

OK, so my work day's winding down and I'm bored. Time to weigh in on Radiohead, since it's what everyone else hanging around here is doing.

Pablo Honey: Life's too short to spend much time with this one. "Anyone Can Play Guitar" is a nice tune, but I hate "Creep" with the kind of intensity that I usually reserve for crap like Karmin. I'm basically with Jinsai on this, I think you have to be looking for a reaction to want to talk too much about how great this record is.

The Bends: I feel the same way about this as I do about a lot of their music - that it's very good, but that I never feel compelled to listen to it. It may have been built in a lab.

OK Computer:I only ever want to hear this during long drives.

Kid A/Amnesiac: The pinnacle, for me. This is the sort of music I wish they'd always make. By sheer coincidence, these albums are my entry point into the catalogue.

Hail to the Thief: Crap.

In Rainbows: I only played this one twice. Never felt like I was missing much. It just didn't stick.

The King of Limbs: This album made me more excited about them than I've been in ages. This is exactly what I want to hear from Radiohead. I've played it to death.

Are you me as well? This is pretty much exactly my opinion on their albums. Love Kid A, Amnesiac and King of Limbs. The are some great tracks on In Rainbows and HTTT ("All I Need", "Myxomatosis") but I could largely do without both albums. Rarely listen to the 90s stuff at all anymore. Good music, but I'm never compelled to listen to it.

I don't hate AnCo either, but aside from a few tracks from their early catalog their music does nothing for me.

New (possibly) controversial opinion: I kind of like Nicki Minaj's rapping voice :P

[Highly Psychological]

Indie/Guitar Music was better in the 1980's than in the 1990's. Could name the obvious bands but.....if John peel was in your life the 1980's the 90s didnt compare.
90s while better overall was more about Electronica for me.

An influential compilation from the mid 1980's called NME C86......the music on that record makes me feel very happy.
A lot of people are like W.T.F, but i love it and it influenced a lot of bands and movements, Kurt Cobain, Riot Grrrl etc. The tape was big in the Northwestern U.S.

I get such a hard on for the C86 Scene in the mid 1980s .....most just find it stupid music by fey geeks but there is a real subtle dark sinister depth to a lot of it and a lot of experimentation and brilliant pop hooks ...it featured greats like The Pastels, Vaselines, Shop Assistants, Mighty Mighty, Soup Dragons, Servants, Stump, Bogshed, Bodines, We Got a Fuzzbox, Flatmates, Primitives, Meow, Half Man- Half Biscuit, etc it was far more innovative and has aged better than the much more commercially successful Britpop scene a decade later.

However sadly only mega music NERDS and ageing junkies from Glasgow agree and most laugh at the fact there was a awesome band called Bogshed.

[Swykk]

King of Limbs is the worst Radiohead album to my ears. Boring as hell, it literally put me to sleep, kind of like Amnesiac did (Like Spinning Plates being the only good song there).
To rank (and give perspective):

OK Computer
Kid A
Hail To The Thief
The Bends
In Rainbows
Pablo Honey
Amnesiac
King Of Limbs

I don't feel the need to own the last three on that list.

[piggy]

Hail To The Thief might be my favorite Radiohead album.

I am inclined to think that Aladdin Sane > Ziggy Stardust, Before And After Science > HCTWJ / TTMBS / AGW, Surfer Rosa > Doolittle, and Pleased To Meet Me > Tim / Let It Be.

I don't like much Nick Cave material prior to Let Love In.

I like Morrissey solo more than The Smiths.

I think the Mad Season album was the best thing Layne Staley ever did.

[Jinsai]

Hey, yeah, fair, Merriweather Post Pavilion was universally loved by big-name publications upon its release and the buzz around that album was unreal. I remember Hipster Runoff doing a fantastic piece about it back then. I didn't read what carpenoctem said as "Animal Collective is underappreciated by critics", though, I read it as "Animal Collective are influencing pop music a lot right now, in more ways than just the obvious ones, and some of the ideas that they're bringing to the table will still be relevant, and will only be appreciated by listeners years and decades down the line". Animal Collective are critics' darlings, but they're critics' darlings in the same way that, say, Andrei Tarkovsky movies are. They're high-concept, they require a long attention span to appreciate, they don't care all that much about traditional structure, and they still manage to appeal to a decent amount of the mainstream audience. Because of that, it's really easy for cynics to come around and say that Animal Collective (and/or Tarkovsky movies) are stupid hipster art-fuck things that no one really understands, and that their audience pretends to like them to feel cool. Maybe people do pretend to like Animal Collective to feel cool, but god, I hate a cynic.

I do think Animal Collective are a big influential band right now. That's hard to deny. I just don't read that from the statement "Animal Collective will probably not be fully appreciated until after they're all dead." To me, that sounds like "they're underappreciated." I think it's hard to say that the critics aren't lauding them, and people seem to love the shit out of them.

Regarding whether or not people pretend to like them to seem cool... I have no idea. I think their fans genuinely like their music, but I'm certain there's a lot of people who will say they like them when they really don't. I base this entirely off the experience of seeing them play a truly boring set at Coachella, and watching tons of people try really hard to pretend to love it until they just gave up.

Either way, it would seem to me that the controversial opinion is that they really aren't that great. Sure, I'd rather listen to pop music made by kids doing hallucinogenic drugs, but maybe I'd rather listen to Spiritualized/Spaceman 3 and The Flaming Lips for that.


No, I wasn't aware that Ummagumma was a Pink Floyd album; I'm not a fan, and I only know their most popular ones (The Wall, Dark Side). Please don't lol at me.

I'm not loling... but really, you should listen to some early Floyd records before saying "nobody has made music that sounds like Animal Collective." I don't know... I don't see how someone could like AC and not enjoy (or at least appreciate) early experimental Pink Floyd. You might like it if you gave it a chance.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think Source Tags and Codes is the best album of the 00's.

[frankie teardrop]

Indie/Guitar Music was better in the 1980's than in the 1990's. Could name the obvious bands but.....if John peel was in your life the 1980's the 90s didnt compare.
90s while better overall was more about Electronica for me.

An influential compilation from the mid 1980's called NME C86......the music on that record makes me feel very happy.
A lot of people are like W.T.F, but i love it and it influenced a lot of bands and movements, Kurt Cobain, Riot Grrrl etc. The tape was big in the Northwestern U.S.

I get such a hard on for the C86 Scene in the mid 1980s .....most just find it stupid music by fey geeks but there is a real subtle dark sinister depth to a lot of it and a lot of experimentation and brilliant pop hooks ...it featured greats like The Pastels, Vaselines, Shop Assistants, Mighty Mighty, Soup Dragons, Servants, Stump, Bogshed, Bodines, We Got a Fuzzbox, Flatmates, Primitives, Meow, Half Man- Half Biscuit, etc it was far more innovative and has aged better than the much more commercially successful Britpop scene a decade later.

However sadly only mega music NERDS and ageing junkies from Glasgow agree and most laugh at the fact there was a awesome band called Bogshed.

that compilation is indeed fucking brilliant. i'm a major fan of fuzzbox an the mighty lemon drops, among others on that comp.

[Sutekh]

Soup dragons and bogshed... Good lawd. Tallulah gosh will be making an appearence next

[Rdm]

Not so much music but the Lights in the Sky tour I thought was really underwhelming, specially after coming off the summer amphitheater shows . I think NIN really hit a stride right around the end of 2007 with teeth tour and it was something to see live. Then they came back and I was extremely excited after seeing them at such a peak and the new shiny tour was absolutely visually stunning but there was something missing from those shows. Anyone else get this from the LITS shows?:confused:

[jmtd]

Re LITS: I was initially bummed when the world tour after didn't have any of the visuals; no ghosts songs; no YZ songs; afaik one TS song perhaps. But on reflection they played a straight up, balls out fantastic set (Manchester in my case); lots of fragile which was cool, excellent sound, tight playing, which is preferable to teh shinies.

Sorry this probably isn't controversial.

[carpenoctem]

Either way, it would seem to me that the controversial opinion is that they really aren't that great.

In certain circles you'd probably be right.
At the Coachella set, I wonder if they played all new material; they have a habit of doing that, and it's something that draws a lot of criticism even from some of their fans, because they play almost none of the stuff that drew the fans to them in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for the recommendation, I'll swipe Ummagumma from my dad, he's a big Floyd fan.

[allegro]

Great is whatever is great to you. Who gives a fuck if Pink Floyd did it 900 years ago. Like what makes you feel good, fuck what anybody else thinks. Even if what you like is (cough) controversial.

[BRoswell]

Great is whatever is great to you. Who gives a fuck if Pink Floyd did it 900 years ago. Like what makes you feel good, fuck what anybody else thinks. Even if what you like is (cough) controversial.

That's my philosophy. Listen to what moves you, forget the rest.

[Jinsai]

Great is whatever is great to you. Who gives a fuck if Pink Floyd did it 900 years ago. Like what makes you feel good, fuck what anybody else thinks. Even if what you like is (cough) controversial.

The thing is, I agree with this entirely. The only thing I disagree with is the contention that it's something entirely new and nobody else has done anything like it before or is doing it now.

Everyone should (and will) like what they like regardless.

[Amaro]

I've tried to like Nirvana (maybe not enough)...boo. Stood out, but I don't like the shit.

Dark Side of The Moon... lol Money's cool...but the rest--maybe it's a "you had to be there" kind of deal. I listen and am unaffected as the time before. Then again I wouldn't at all call myself a Pink Floyd fan at the moment.

[Jinsai]

I need to stop jumping in here and defending bands, because it just feels wrong.

Anyway, I think Nirvana was an incredible band, In Utero is an amazing album, and I don't think they're overrated at all. I think as time moves on, I hear the opinion that Nirvana is overrated more and more often (I'm not saying you're saying this at all Magrao), and I think I just want to say that I don't think that's fair. They deserve the acclaim, not just for the awesome music and their undeniable impact on everything, but also what they did with the exposure afforded by their popularity. They were a great band.

[Sutekh]

Nirvana are underrated (in a sense) They perfectly bridge metal, punk, post punk, indie and noisy stuff like big black - and yet it sounds coherent, they arent a mishmash or a patchwork. Also they somehow managed to sell millions of records, its mind blowing

but yeah for me the big deal with them is how they blended sounds that usually stay in their own little ghettos, and I cannot recall ever seeing a music hack give them kudos for that specific aspect

they just dont get it maaaaaaan

[Reznor2112]

I fucking hate The Beatles and I hope that Lil Wayne and Kanye choke on each others cocks and die. :rolleyes:

[Space Suicide]

Outside of a few songs off Born in the US, I fail to see what Bruce Springsteen does to garner the success he has. He has no appeal to me and he's not that great of a singer.

[henryeatscereal]

Outside f a few songs off Born in the US, I fail to see what Bruce Springsteen does to garner the success he has. He has no appeal to me and he's not that great of a singer.
I hate Springsteen too, but i think "Nebraska" is an awesome album
ON TOPIC: Alice in Chains > Soundgarden > Pearl Jam > Nirvana (they are overrated but they were good)

[jmtd]

Smells like Teen Spirit > In Utero

Edit: I meant Nevermind > In Utero

Slts is the one song on N I can't listen to.

[frankie teardrop]

nebraska and darkness on the edge of town are the bruce gems, could take or leave almost everything else. also, 'i'm on fire' from born in the usa is a great little slow burn track.

in utero above all other nirvana, but agreed with the defenders about blending of styles and the importance to indie subculture, etc.

[BlueCalx]

Not sure if this is controversial here, but it sure is controversial among the people I meet in Vancouver: Drake is everything that sucks about hip-hop, and that his music is so well-produced only makes his annoying voice, shitty attitude and stale rapping that much more obnoxious.

[hobochic]

"Smells like teen spirit" – overrated, as is the video. I'm sick of seeing shitty celebrities voting/namedropping it as their number one song of the 90's.


"Something I can Never Have" – find me a more cringe-worthy song... It should never have been included on PHM, but I'm sure I've written about it in the "worst NIN track" thread.


You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable? Heard "Something I can never have"? Jesus.

[Ruined]

I hate Tallking Heads and pretty much anything involving David Byrnes. His voice and lyrics are shit.
I hate Paul Simon, especially that shit album "Graceland" or as I like to call it "let's exploit South Africans by stealing their sound and call it ours!" It's continually on top-ten lists and shouldn't be, in my opinion.
I hate ALL jam bands (from The Grateful Dead to Phish...Phuck Phish!). Music is like a conversation and "jamming" is analogous to someone, in a drugged stupor, babbling about nothing.
I despise Slayer and all other bands that attempt to pass barking/screaming as singing (such as Pantera). Sounds like fucking Cookie Monster on coke! "Rawr! Rawr! Rawr! Satan! Rawr! Rawr!" I'm also over all bands, like Slayer, who use pentagrams in their titles/logos. Oooh, how evil and spooky. Fucking boring shit.
Finally, for now, I hate Muse. Fuck their pretentious, bombastic tripe.