Trent Reznor on Rick Rubin Podcast Tetragrammaton

[BRoswell]

New podcast interview with Rick Rubin: https://www.stitcher.com/show/tetragrammaton-with-rick-rubin/episode/trent-reznor-304436366

Also available on other platforms, search Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

This is good. Trent always seems to open up more if he's comfortable with the interviewer.

[paul_guyet]

New podcast interview with Rick Rubin: https://www.stitcher.com/show/tetragrammaton-with-rick-rubin/episode/trent-reznor-304436366

Also available on other platforms, search Tetragrammaton with Rick RubinI really dug this and, while I'm curious about this "new thing that isn't music", I feel like new NIN isn't any closer. Gettin' itchy...

[sonic_discord]

I really dug this and, while I'm curious about this "new thing that isn't music", I feel like new NIN isn't any closer. Gettin' itchy...

Yeah, and the way he talked about touring made me feel like there's not much hope for another tour in the near future, either (which made me a little sad). It was still a fantastic interview, though! It gave a lot of new insight into Trent's upbringing, and his entire career path up until now. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this.

[azad_ninja]

I enjoyed the interview. Not much new info, but i can probably listen to TR read a recipe book for 2 hours. He's a great interview. Probably my favourite is his one with Lizzy Goodman (although, she's a little too nervous as an interviewer and gets verbal diarrhea)

[azad_ninja]

I really dug this and, while I'm curious about this "new thing that isn't music", I feel like new NIN isn't any closer. Gettin' itchy...

Graphic Novel? I know he likes RPGs, that'd be interesting considering how well the Year Zero ARG was

[allegate]

Yeah, and the way he talked about touring made me feel like there's not much hope for another tour in the near future, either (which made me a little sad). It was still a fantastic interview, though! It gave a lot of new insight into Trent's upbringing, and his entire career path up until now. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this.
lol, and I was just reading on reddit about how that conversation gave them hope of a tour soon. the dichotomy of man.

[sweeterthan]

lol, and I was just reading on reddit about how that conversation gave them hope of a tour soon. the dichotomy of man.

yes! i read that too. i need to listen to the interview and decide for myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BRoswell]

I don't think Trent was saying that they're never going to tour again, but touring would definitely not be as big of a priority going forward. Certainly no more world tours that last for two years straight. You can't be gone that long when you've got a family, at least if you intend to be part of their lives as much as possible.

[paul_guyet]

I don't think Trent was saying that they're never going to tour again, but touring would definitely not be as big of a priority going forward. Certainly no more world tours that last for two years straight. You can't be gone that long when you've got a family, at least if you intend to be part of their lives as much as possible.That's the sense I got as well. Not "no more tours", just "no more HUGE tours". Also, this "new thing that isn't music" has got me thinking...memoir? I kind of hope not, as they tend to indicate the end of one's career. Honestly, I would LOVE a deep, overindulgent look at each and every record and their creation process. I feel like we know so much about PHM and TDS, but I'd love to get a solid two hour deep dive on each of the other releases.

[mfte]

I can't see him writing a memoir. I assume it likely some sort of tv, film and or multimedia thing.

[Ruined]

I can't see him writing a memoir. I assume it likely some sort of tv, film and or multimedia thing.

Time for his Broadway debut: That EGOT is in reach.

[Zimbo]

I get his point, but I would love a new NIN record, even if he didn't tour behind it. Or a score that sounds like Watchmen. The way he talks about rock albums--their commodification--is weirdly similar to what Billy Corgan has said.

[Jackryder2025]

There are so many things he could do without having to Tour or anything else major. Give us Deviations 2, or a remix album, or another ghosts album, I just want new NIN in some form!

[BRoswell]

Just sounds like 'i'm making shitloads of money off my scores now so fuck you'.

I'm so sick of some fans projecting this attitude on Trent. The man gets vulnerable and honest, and all some people can think is "wHy Do YoU hAtE mEeEeEe?!"

[BRoswell]

Lol come again? I'm not fucking 14.

Then why do you sound like an entitled teenager?


That's how it comes across, whether that's how he meant it or not that's how it comes across.

Please. It only comes across that way if you assume that NIN should be his only priority. Every time Trent has something positive to say about doing film scores, people like you get up in arms about it, acting like he hates the fans, hates doing NIN, and is only doing film scores for the money. Why is that? What exactly does he owe you? He's given a lot over his career, yet guys like you just keep begging for more, and you always take it as a slight whenever he does something other than exactly what you want. I don't blame him for being at least slightly tired of it. Like I said, the man opened up in a way that we've rarely seen in this interview, yet you call it a cop out answer and accuse him of only caring about the money. How does that not sound like entitlement?


What happened to this board man? It used to be somewhere you could chat about music and have different opinions about things and everyone was cool whether they agreed or not.

Not sure when this magical utopia of a forum existed, but it must have been a very long time ago. I've been on ETS for almost fifteen years, and there's always been arguments and assholes. Even setting aside disagreements, some people just love to stir the shit pot. I have a feeling you're here to do the latter.

[raptors661]

If Trent said there was no more NIN music ever, I would say that's too bad, but hey, he's given us so much NIN that I'll cherish forever. I will always have his film scores to look forward too. People have this attitude that artists owe us music. They don't. If they say "I'm out", then that's their decision.

But that's not at all what he said on the podcast, so...

[fillow]

Can anyone pinpoint exactly where TR says there's no new NIN in the works, or that he doesn't want to tour anymore?
All I heard was that he wants to tour less and spend time with kids more (which let's be honest is already the case since Hez Marks tour cycle ended).


Also: I can't help but imagine how this talk would've unfolded if it was on Marc Maron's podcast, because it basically followed the same scenario (based on dozens of WTF podcast episodes I've heard), and I think Rubin did it much better. Maron would've constantly try to get under Trent's skin with endless questions about his parents, his drug abuse, Manson connection and so on. I can't see Trent opening up in that scenario.

[cdm]

Can anyone pinpoint exactly where TR says there's no new NIN in the works, or that he doesn't want to tour anymore?
All I heard was that he wants to tour less and spend time with kids more (which let's be honest is already the case since Hez Marks tour cycle ended).


Also: I can't help but imagine how this talk would've unfolded if it was on Marc Maron's podcast, because it basically followed the same scenario (based on dozens of WTF podcast episodes I've heard), and I think Rubin did it much better. Maron would've constantly try to get under Trent's skin with endless questions about his parents, his drug abuse, Manson connection and so on. I can't see Trent opening up in that scenario.

Some blogs / websites seem to have latched on to a botched interpretation of him saying he doesn't see himself doing massive tours anymore and he had some non-music projects going on. I think some people are running with that and not listening to what he actually said.

[sweeterthan]

missed opportunity for all these blogs.
“Trent Reznor: I am a tool”

Jokes aside, what a great listen for the hallmark holiday. i love that he wants to be there for his children. how wonderful to hear how fatherhood is shaping his reality now. it felt good and appropriate that he spoke about abandonment but eventually there was repair between him and his father. i also find it interesting to learn that his father was a musician. something i’m not sure i’ve ever heard about his personal life before. My own father was part of the country rock scene in pittsburg and the surrounding suburbs. i love toying with the idea that my step dad and trent’s dad were part of the same scene way back when.

just more ways for me to feel connected to my favorite artist.

[Khrz]

I really don't care.

I can't shake the idea that everything was there, 20 years ago, for Reznor to go down the rock n' roll slope to hell. We know who we lost to alcohol, drugs, excesses, abuse and inflated egos. This forum could be dead, stuck on the news of a prospective "Bleedthrough" concept album until tragedy struck. Or we could be discussing the merits of yet another "Downward Spiral" copy from an artist desperately trying to chase the highs of popularity.

Instead here we are, following an artist going his own way, doing what he loves, enjoying his life.
Sure, I wish I had a new NIN album. I'm less and less interested in their soundtrack output, to be honest. But I don't really care either way.

It's silly but when you fall in love with an artist's output, especially as a teen, you end up looking up to that person. It's obviously a mistake, there is a real, actual gap between an artist and their art, why and how they conceive it and how we perceive it.
But the result here is that I'm proud to have believed in that man, all those years back. And I'm proud of what he has accomplished, the struggles he had, how he overcame. Not in an idolizing way, rather in a "you're good people, and you've done good".

And whatever he believes is healthy and necessary for himself and his own is good enough for me.

[SM Rollinger]

I do feel like the constant soundtrack work has to have seeped some ideas/time/effort/creativity away from a proper NIN release. I loved the EPs, but would really like to have a another full LP at some point.

[Swykk]

I think that based on that interview, he very well could and doesn’t believe that an album that needs to be taken in in its entirety would work right now but I wish I could convince him it would and that many of us would love nothing more!

[M1ke]

One of the things I've always admired about NIN and Trent in interviews is just how authentic he sounds, and how you can tell that what he's doing matters to him. The openness that he has with his answers, regardless of what he's feeling or thinking, it's always been authentic, and never a schtick.

Listening to him talk about an appreciation for pop music is something that resonated with me too. I grew up listening to NIN, but I'm also totally in love with Taylor Swift's music, and it's always felt somewhat odd to me to have those two enjoy those two very different styles.

And I got there through my kids really too....I would make fun of pop music all the time, until I had kids, and this is what my youngest enjoyed for a long time. I had an internal resistance to anything that sounded upbeat and easy, I'd just make fun of it as "not important" or "disposible" or whatever, and then having kids, and just enjoying things that are light and easy with them....it took that for me to recognize that light and easy can be important and meaningful too. And listening to one of my favourite artists describe going through something similar with his kids....well, it just made me appreciate him even more.

You know, part of me wonders what a happy and upbeat NIN album would sound like. I mean, there's probably a good reason that pop musicians don't write music that sounds nothing like NIN, but I'd still be really curious to hear it one day. Even if it ended up being something I turned off after 30 seconds to never speak of again.

If NIN doesn't ever put out more music, or never tours again, I can say that I'm really happy with what we have. None of it has felt fake, or forced or like an act, and that's one thing that I really hope stays true, regardless of whether more comes or not.

If he doesn't want to tour, then I hope he doesn't. But if he does, then I'll be there to watch happily. If he doesn't want to make new NIN music, again, I hope he doesn't force it. But I'd welcome it with excitement if it does come.

At any rate, this interview was a fantastic listen, and one that I really enjoyed.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Sorry this is so goddamn long, there was a lot to chew on in this expansive and very honest conversation and I’ve been thinking a lot about NIN’s future or lack thereof as a touring entity or even musical project (not to validate the misleading and click-bait-y headlines) quite a bit even before this emerged so pardon the length…

This was a really interesting and insightful little sit down that Rick Rubin put together here and I think he managed his part of the conversation super well. It was really interesting to hear Trent speak so frankly about how his parents’ separation came to instill a core sense of inferiority and how that is something that is still a part of him, and how that fear of being seen as he really was and not being good enough enabled and perpetuated his addictions - extremely personal and affecting. I’d known the whole “Steve Gottlieb told me PHM was an abortion” story before but I don’t remember it being as specifically recalled as it was here. And I was dying at Apple-era Trent being scared straight at the idea of fully embracing corporate work and thinking with shame when he encountered Rubin in that period, “before I was drunk, now I’m at a corporation…I’m not an artist.” Very curious about the non-music work he is talking about and thrilled that it sounds artistically inclined and very much not along the lines of more Apple-type work. The whole thing was a pleasure to listen to, and while I would certainly prefer indications of more NIN on the horizon, I am not surprised by his feelings, no more than I can begrudge him for them.

If you’ve read any of my posts on here, especially recently, you’ll know that there’s nothing that would make me happier than NIN playing a few more shows sometime soon, except perhaps new Nine Inch Nails material. But I have always trusted Trent to know what the right path to take with Nine Inch Nails is and the way he has approached NIN’s releases and live shows in the past couple decades that I have been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to follow them in have only reinforced my trust and respect for him. I don’t agree with every decision he makes but I almost always understand why he makes them. And even before this interview I was anticipating that, with Trent’s family so large and growing older, whatever time we get from him as a touring artist from here on out is even more of a gift than it was before. Though we can be a headache for him I think he has a lot of love for his fans (well maybe besides us here), but obviously no one in the world could (or at least should) think that compares to the family he has been blessed with, and it only makes sense that they would be his priority as a good husband and father.

I just wish I hadn’t been so blind to performances entering a long lull or ceasing altogether. Regarding major arena tours and the like, I had kind of expected that anything live from Nine Inch Nails at this point wasn’t going to have that kind of scale or budget. And I had also anticipated that the touring cycles might be more brief to accommodate more time with the families. But I just did not anticipate that after how much TR seemed to get out of the C&B&I Tour in 2018 (he genuinely seemed to mean it when he said “I’m not sure when but we’ll be back before long” at the last NYC area show in Brooklyn), after the scuttled Rock Hall performance and two consecutive years of canceled tour plans, after all the stir-craziness of the lockdown period, that the same night of the reunion at the Blossom Music Center show TR would take to Discord and proclaim that not only touring but this very iteration of the band were no more for the foreseeable future.

I had expected there to be a bit more touring after such a long period of forced deferment but that was one thing. More concerning to me was the end of the Cold & Black & Infinite “era” and the potential lineup change that implies. The impression I had since this lineup emerged in 2017, at least from the interview bits I remember, was that Trent wanted to lean towards a stable core group that could learn and master the material and be able to more casually coalesce for smaller touring cycles every few years without having to relearn the whole catalogue. The prospect of future live NIN seems even more distant and potentially unlikely if that “we can reassemble and function whenever we want to” model is abandoned, because the whole idea there seemed to be a lineup that could afford them less time away from home in the first place. I hope these five end up sticking together but of course only time will tell if there’s even going to be another show.

Whatever the future of NIN live is, if there is any future at all, I have been an unbelievably lucky and spoiled fan who has seen and will cherish the memory of eighteen amazing shows forever. The thought of it being over makes me very sad, and makes me wish I had seen more, but that is a testament to what phenomenal events they have been every time I have been fortunate enough to see them. I’m so grateful for everything he and the amazing band members and crews have given us over the years.

As far as his feelings on albums and people not caring enough about music and having it be an accessory to some other activity or background noise etc, in a broad sense I absolutely get it and agree. It doesn’t seem to possess the cultural weight it used to, even when it gets huge. But I think he’s underestimating the number of people who still do care about experiencing music in a dedicated, attentive way, who still care about album art and hidden messages and appreciating the whole created from the sum of the songs therein, and while I more than understand a defeatist attitude on this, if he doesn’t realize that he is discounting the thinking audience out there somewhere he will at least decide the people that don’t care can go to hell and do what he feels is right as he has thankfully made a habit of. To that end, I think he still (and likely always will) feel the call to make music beyond what he and Atticus are commissioned for and that there is some musical future for Nine Inch Nails, at some point (he tells Rubin “what I find exciting about working on film - as a side job - is, here is a scenario that needs to feel a certain way” and I think it’s very interesting that even with so much more soundtrack output from him and Atticus, he still considers it a side job).

If he’s just not feeling the NIN itch, then I’m fine with him sitting by until whenever the spirit rises. This interview makes it clear how much he thrives creatively when he doesn’t try to force it or overthink it. But I also recall some interviews from not that long ago where he talked about being eager to get back to NIN and feeling like he had something to say artistically again. So who knows. When it comes to new NIN material, these days we basically don’t know about anything until it’s done, because Trent has learned the lesson from Tapeworm and all the other abandoned projects that teasing something before it is guaranteed to see the light of day is a recipe for fielding annoying questions forever, so it is genuinely hard to know whether TR has been working on anything besides the scores with Atticus. I remember them saying they liked how the work on NIN broke up the monotony that could set in with the scoring and vice versa, that they would work on one until they felt tapped and then jump into the other feeling stimulated, but maybe they just work differently now.

Whatever work he releases from here, I’m so glad for him that he made it out the way he did and has found such happiness with his family. Part of what has made Trent’s music so powerful and resonant to me is how honestly and openly he reckons with his demons and worst selves, and it is a genuinely beautiful thing that he has survived his darkest days and struggles to thrive and find love. And as much as I would kill to see more shows suddenly announced, when I think about what Trent said about needing to pursue music when he did because he felt “when I’m thirty I want to be able to say, I gave it my best shot, and then I’ll know”, it hits me hard, because I just turned thirty-three, and while my circumstances are fortunate and financially stable enough, to say my life and my accomplishments (or lack thereof really) are a long way from what I want or expected would be an understatement. I slowly let my lack of confidence and inability to commit erode even attempting a real pass at anything I wanted to do, until I waited too long and blew my window and fell into letting my ultimate job and the fucking marathon of bad shit that seems to have happened over the past seven years divert whatever energy could have gone toward actually doing something I could have been proud of. I need to be better, for myself and the people in an unfortunate enough position to care about me, and I need to actually try to do the things I actually want to do, because I don’t want to think it’s too late. Realizing I can’t take NIN in my future for granted is the fire under my lazy ass I need.

I will always adore NIN and Trent and love the part they have played in my life, but they owe me nothing and it’s not right for me to depend on an amazing Nine Inch Nails album or live show always being around the corner to make my lot seem more worthwhile. We are all lucky enough that Trent made it through his worst times - that he recovered, thrived, and made the past nearly two decades such a fertile time for NIN’s catalogue and live performances is just incredible and I will always be grateful for the warmth of recognition and inspiration and euphoria they have saturated me with all of these years.

[simonn]

I'm just happy that my discovery and enjoyment of Dua Lipa over the last 18 months, for which some friends have doubted my sanity and musical taste, has now been entirely vindicated!

[howdidislipinto]

i know everyone is focusing on the tour thoughts but... i mean, we literally *just* got a tour, we haven't had new non-instrumental music since bad witch. and though i totally understand where he's coming from in wondering if it's worth it to create albums in a world where they're mostly disposable... bad witch is still one of the best NIN albums EVER, it's been the one i've listened to most through the entire pandemic and since, so it's a bummer he feels that way. i hope the album inspiration strikes him again soon.

so much of the interview being focused on the PHM era made me put on the purest feeling demo this morning. it's a pretty fucking spectacular piece of work for a dude sitting alone in a studio at night learning how to do all this shit himself, no?

[Toadflax]

i know everyone is focusing on the tour thoughts but... i mean, we literally *just* got a tour, we haven't had new non-instrumental music since bad witch. and though i totally understand where he's coming from in wondering if it's worth it to create albums in a world where they're mostly disposable... bad witch is still one of the best NIN albums EVER, it's been the one i've listened to most through the entire pandemic and since, so it's a bummer he feels that way. i hope the album inspiration strikes him again soon.

I agree. I love seeing NIN live, but they toured so much between 2017 and 2022 (pandemic notwithstanding) that I'm ready for them to spend some time focusing on new material and other projects so that when/if they tour again, it's something special—hopefully in support of new music and with a brand new stage aesthetic.

I like that Trent's been honest about being perpetually afraid to work on new NIN and letting other projects distract him from that. And I expect it's not a coincidence that he's taken on a lot of other projects recently, between lots of score work, Halsey, a few collaborations, and whatever the non-music thing he's working on is. I know we'd love it if he just set everything aside to spend time working on new NIN, but we should take heart in knowing that he's going to do it when it feels right to him. No one wants a NIN album that feels rushed or insincere because of an obligation or to meet some deadline.

[botley]

we haven't had new non-instrumental music since bad witch.



In terms of NIN with Trent singing, we had "ISN'T EVERYONE" in 2021... plus there was also "(You Made It Feel Like) Home" last year, as well as the Danny Elfman collab tracks. I know those aren't full-fat Nine Inch Nails but they're all pretty exceptional tracks. I don't think TR is stopping NIN, but the album/tour cycle is definitely on hold. I imagine there will be another pretty rad few years left but... sounds like the next album is not coming off the back-burner as quickly as we all hoped.

[trollmanen]

we haven't had new non-instrumental music since bad witch.

Honestly, I don't even really think about Ghosts V and VI much in terms of NIN. To me, they felt like outtakes from scoring work that they repurposed into NIN releases at the last minute, especially VI which most people considered to be the unused material from The Woman In The Window. It was a digital only release, still no physical product after 3 years. I enjoy them, but they don't really feel like NIN albums, even in the way Ghosts I-IV did.

[simonn]

Honestly, I don't even really think about Ghosts V and VI much in terms of NIN. To me, they felt like outtakes from scoring work that they repurposed into NIN releases at the last minute, especially VI which most people considered to be the unused material from The Woman In The Window. It was a digital only release, still no physical product after 3 years. I enjoy them, but they don't really feel like NIN albums, even in the way Ghosts I-IV did.

I've been under a mis-apprehension then, was V all new material, while VI was re-purposed as you say? I'd always assumed both were TWITW.

[botley]

I've been under a mis-apprehension then, was V all new material, while VI was re-purposed as you say? I'd always assumed both were TWITW.
We're all assuming they had some material left from multiple scores that made it into the mix for both albums, but this was never confirmed.

[tony.parente]

How does he know a full length record wouldn't work in todays climate, he hasn't released one in a decade :(

[Toadflax]

We're all assuming they had some material left from multiple scores that made it into the mix for both albums, but this was never confirmed.

To be fair, they released 2.5 hours of music less than two weeks after the pandemic went into full swing in the US, a time when Trent said he didn't feel like being creative. Sure, it's possible they were already working on new Ghosts material, but given the circumstances, it seems way more likely that they wanted to put something out for free to try and help people in a time of crisis and ended up repurposing discarded score work as a way of doing that. To be clear, I think that's great, but to the previous poster's point, it does tend to feel more like "here's some music you haven't heard" than "we set out to specifically make another Ghosts record."

[blassster]

In the Jimmy Iovine episode, around the 20 minute mark, Iovine says to Rick that TR/AR are working with Stevie Nicks on a song. No info beyond that. New news? Search brings up nothing recent, and I don't know anything about this musician.

[allegate]

They worked with Lindsey Buckingham for a track on the Halsey album so I guess they'll work with each member of the band eventually.

[trollmanen]

I've been under a mis-apprehension then, was V all new material, while VI was re-purposed as you say? I'd always assumed both were TWITW.

I don't think anyone knows for sure. From what I've read, people made the connection for Ghosts VI via the track titles and the fact that it was known the original score went unused. Both were released in March 2020, and the original message accompanying the release mentions "burning the midnight oil to complete these new Ghosts records". I can't imagine they made these both from scratch in March 2020, it seems more likely they had most of this stuff laying around and worked to finish things up to release them quickly. The artwork is extremely minimal as well, so if they had been working on this before then, I feel like there would be more to it.

[mfte]

How does he know a full length record wouldn't work in todays climate, he hasn't released one in a decade :(

A lot of us fans are projecting based on what TR might or might not have meant in regard to whatever era of his career he might have been referencing in his thoughts when he made the comments, but it isn't like Hesitation Marks set the music world ablaze. That album divided a lot of people, earned so-so sales (compared to the rest of the catalogue), had a big label push that resulted in an OK David Lynch music video and a few "meh" tv appearances and, for the most part, lives on in our collective memory because TR flipped off The Grammy's and the conversation about whatever the fuck "Everything" is.

Entirely possible that experience of releasing that LP in that climate soured the man.

I'd be happy with an on going series of EPs. They've been a proven success as definitive artistic statements in the NIN universe.

[tony.parente]

it isn't like Hesitation Marks set the music world ablaze.
Yeah but it resulted in the last time NIN would ever play St. Louis, but that's just a personal thing for me

[Deacon Blackfire]

If the Hesitation Marks cycle and the major label push that amounted to less than the sum of its parts factor into what he was talking about, it's because that period evidenced him trying to conquer what seems to be frustrating him here - his inability to reach new listeners out there beyond the barrier of the rapid fire news cycle media environment. After all, based on his statements at the time, the move back to Columbia and the major labels was mostly because he didn't want to have so many non-musical jobs on his plate with every release - as an independent artist he was basically tired of and uncomfortable with handling the business end of things and he felt that a) labels had changed in a way that made them a more supportive environment for artists and b) a major label's resources and research would help Nine Inch Nails material reach new listeners that he wasn't on his own. Ultimately that did not seem to be the case but it illustrates the fact that, as appreciative as Trent and his wallet are of us cultists here, he is not content to play to the same audience over and over again and is always hungry to expand his listener-base. He can rely on us to gobble up anything he puts out but these days, how do you really get the word out in a way that really makes an impression on culture at large? You need a sledgehammer of sorts, it's not a 'one size fits all' model, and quality frequently gets lost in the churning echo chamber of constantly generating content.

[Jazzkokehead]

A lot of us fans are projecting based on what TR might or might not have meant in regard to whatever era of his career he might have been referencing in his thoughts when he made the comments, but it isn't like Hesitation Marks set the music world ablaze. That album divided a lot of people, earned so-so sales (compared to the rest of the catalogue), had a big label push that resulted in an OK David Lynch music video and a few "meh" tv appearances and, for the most part, lives on in our collective memory because TR flipped off The Grammy's and the conversation about whatever the fuck "Everything" is.


Entirely my personal opinion - because I know there are many people who love the record - but I feel the reason Hesitation Marks had so-so sales is because it was a so-so album, not some kind of greater reflection on the music industry as a whole.

[WorzelG]

Probably fair to say it wouldn't set the world ablaze - but Satellite is an absolute banger of a pop song, not released as a single - ridiculous.

What's most entertaining to me, going back to people's comments at the time, was an entire thread lamenting the sales and suggesting it was ludicrous that NIN didn't outsell Ariana Grande! Ha ha

[ZeroisGreg]

Not sure if anybody noticed or looked it up but Tetragrammaton means God in Hebrew and the symbol is a cool-looking pentagram. Also, it's a funny coincidence that these letters look familiar.

https://ibb.co/0tPxjy1
https://ibb.co/VN6Vc0N (https://ibb.co/VN6Vc0N)

https://ibb.co/0tPxjy1
https://ibb.co/VN6Vc0N

[Paul]

I thought this interview was excellent, one of his very best, and I should probably spend more time describing all the things I enjoyed about it.

But instead I will just say that I think it's completely possible / viable / desirable to have new NIN music without a tour. In fact it might be freeing to create new tracks without the concern of "but how are we going to play this live?". Just go for it. All out. God I want some new NIN so badly.

[simonn]

They worked with Lindsey Buckingham for a track on the Halsey album so I guess they'll work with each member of the band eventually.

He also played on 3 tacks on HM.....

[JustARandomGuy]

I haven't been here for a while and I came back when this news came around. I totally get Trent having kids and not wanting to tour, more power to him honestly, I would not be upset at Trent for such a decision, it's mature, understandable and respectable.


As a fan of NIN, I am disappointed that the new NIN is not close at all and my main core issue is the reason given, I just don't buy it, I come from a younger generation and I love albums, I love digesting them and I know for a fact I am not alone who still cares for albums in my age group (Early 20s). I think it's reductive to say that albums don't mean much anymore just because reviews don't make quite a big splash anymore...why is that something to upset yourself about? Nowadays what matters more is the listener, isn't that the way we should be going? I don't want some corporate Pitchfork assholes dictating what is good and what isn't. I'm confused as to why Trent is thinking about that either, I don't want another The Fragile Pitchfork review situation where some non-talented parasite pans an album just to satisfy his empty life. Why is this something Trent even thinks about? Unles I missunderstand but I just don't see how that would be desirable in any way


Trent also has not had a proper album released (in the normal sense of a word) since 2013 Hesitation Marks. After that, we had a collection of EPs (which I've loved) but I am confused as to how that was supposed to be better for the "modern times" as Trent put it, I am of the strong belief that the release method actually hurt the visibility of these amazing records in the long run. The fact Trent thinks this was the better way to go just seems absurd to me. So how he can speak about how much people "care" about albums if he hasn't had a proper album release in at least a decade? He didn't expect the EPs with minimum hype, advertisements, singles, and music videos to get a lot of attention, right? (Except for Less Than, of course).

And even then even with the label backing, Hesitation Marks was not marketed super well, the music video it got was an awful and they could have seriously picked better main single as well. A lot of lost opportunities.


I can guarantee that if Nine Inch Nails were to release a 13-14-track long album with proper build-up and hype, it would get insane coverage and attention, 2020s feels like the perfect time for this type of music to come back, which is another thing I disagree with on Trent - this not being the time for NIN. I think it absolutely is, if there is any time for NIN to make a big splash it'd be now. Deftones are utterly huge and their latest album was successful. Queens Of The Stone Age and Foo Fighters had amazing albums released this month to great acclaim and great sales, and a lot of attention.


I don't know where Trent is looking to have such a bleak view of how music is viewed. But if anything the importance of albums to people is coming back, places like RateYourMusic, which are polluted with young people, people who care about music are blooming, that site has not been this big, ever. It doesn't add up to me where these statements are coming from. I find them a little confusing but most importantly depressing since they feel incredibly self-defeating.


In the end though, it's clear that Trent creativity for him is now found to be in the soundtracks, it wouldn't surprise me if the time when Trent puts NIN forever to rest and entirely devotes himself to soundtracks will come soon, it might sound melodramatic from me but I don't mean it to be, Trent should do whatever he wants to do creatively, he has nothing left to prove, he has left an enormous impact on music as a whole. He can do whatever, who I am of all people to tell him what to do? That's not the tone I want to give off. I respect Trent and his creative future endeavours. I won't be upset if NIN was put to rest forever, Trent gave me a shit ton of music already.


I only take issue with his reasoning given which he gave that I disagree with. As the thought of albums being disposable is not felt by me at all.

[botley]

I come from a younger generation and I love albums, I love digesting them and I know for a fact I am not alone who still cares for albums in my age group (Early 20s). I think it's reductive to say that albums don't mean much anymore just because reviews don't make quite a big splash anymore...why is that something to upset yourself about?
I don't think that's a fair characterization of what Reznor said, he was just using the fact that music reviews are beyond passe now as an example of the broader shift away from people in large numbers engaging deeply with albums as art these days. There will always be people who continue to do that, of course. Your example of people gathering on RateYourMusic is a good one, but that's incredibly niche compared to most spaces people hang out in these days.


So how he can speak about how much people "care" about albums if he hasn't had a proper album release in at least a decade? He didn't expect the EPs with minimum hype, advertisements, singles, and music videos to get a lot of attention, right? (Except for Less Than, of course).
Elsewhere in the interview, he says that going independent in 2008 and subsequently working for Beats/Apple made him think a lot about how music is consumed in this century and how best to help people pay more attention to it. But my reading is that after Hesitation Marks, he lost interest with trying to make a big splash with NIN because of the inevitable disappointment that brings. There's no pleasing everyone, so they're just out to please themselves — and if they don't feel right about spending months and months slaving away over an epic journey of an album, and thinking deeply about every facet of it as the next big statement for NIN, then it's probably not going to happen.

That could change. But if they're feeling like there's an uphill battle just to stand out and be heard, then I could see how that does make the psychological toll of putting out new music extra draining (TR spoke about this on Song Exploder episode for "The Lovers", where he was asked if it was cathartic/therapeutic to visit such dark personal territory again for NIN... and pretty much said "no").

Maybe if things had been different in 2020 and there had been a huge outpouring of public recognition and so forth with a big splashy Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, there might have been a cultural tipping point where it felt like NIN was relevant to the broader cultural conversation. But the pandemic kind of took the wind out of everyone's sails, and that's more the core reason we haven't had a new album yet, in my opinion. A lot of artists took years to feel inspired again, some are still finding their way there. That's okay. It's been hard.

[Toadflax]

It's very strange that at least 2 people on this thread have said that Trent not releasing a traditional album in 10 years means he couldn't possibly know how people feel about albums these days. Huh? That's like saying only a cook can know how food tastes. Also, this is in the same thread where plenty of people are talking about how people feel about albums these days, through presumably most of them haven't released an album in the past 10 years, either.

[BRoswell]

It's very strange that at least 2 people on this thread have said that Trent not releasing a traditional album in 10 years means he couldn't possibly know how people feel about albums these days. Huh? That's like saying only a cook can know how food tastes. Also, this is in the same thread where plenty of people are talking about how people feel about albums these days, through presumably most of them haven't released an album in the past 10 years, either.

Exactly. Even if Trent hasn't put out a full length album in a decade, he's still aware of trends in music, and he's still aware of where Nine Inch Nails stands in terms of popularity. That's exactly why he doesn't want to become a nostalgia act. To be honest, I like what Trent & Atticus did with the EP trilogy. Each one was short, sweet, and to the point, and it let the music breathe a bit too. I can't really blame him for not wanting to go the traditional route of putting out a big album and touring for a year to support it, especially when Nine Inch Nails is not really a huge draw anymore and he's got a family to take care of. I don't think they're going to hang up Nine Inch Nails just yet, but things have definitely changed, and I think Trent would rather just roll with it and do what feels right instead of forcing himself to conform to whatever trends there are.

[Demogorgon]

I'd like to see more collaborations, honestly. Like, full album collabs as opposed to a song here and there. The album with Halsey is great, and I'm not even a fan of pop music or Halsey in general. I'd buy an album like that again.

[tony.parente]

It's very strange that at least 2 people on this thread have said that Trent not releasing a traditional album in 10 years means he couldn't possibly know how people feel about albums these days. Huh? That's like saying only a cook can know how food tastes. Also, this is in the same thread where plenty of people are talking about how people feel about albums these days, through presumably most of them haven't released an album in the past 10 years, either.
Man i just want new music and one last real tour (not just LA/NY/CHI shows) before he tosses in the hat lol

[JustARandomGuy]

That could change. But if they're feeling like there's an uphill battle just to stand out and be heard, then I could see how that does make the psychological toll of putting out new music extra draining (TR spoke about this on Song Exploder episode for "The Lovers", where he was asked if it was cathartic/therapeutic to visit such dark personal territory again for NIN... and pretty much said "no").
I remember this very vividly and I found it a little alarming, I really don't want Trent to put himself into uncomfortable situations just for the art's sake. Especially if there is no carthasis anymore, I'd rather for Trent to stop making NIN if he feels he needs to force himself like that. I don't believe anyone should do that to themselves.

Maybe it'd be nice to see Trent indulge in some side-project that could be lighter and more fun for a lack of a better word, something that doesn't demand for dark personal themes, it's not like Trent didn't try this with NIN itself, I feel that people's reaction to Everything could have been very defeatening to him.

But I guess he has soundtracks for that already. I am really curious how that Ninja Turtles OS will sound like, seems like it will be the silliest, most light-hearted movie Trent composed for thus far so I wonder what tunes he will make for that one.


It's very strange that at least 2 people on this thread have said that Trent not releasing a traditional album in 10 years means he couldn't possibly know how people feel about albums these days. Huh? That's like saying only a cook can know how food tastes. Also, this is in the same thread where plenty of people are talking about how people feel about albums these days, through presumably most of them haven't released an album in the past 10 years, either.

Exactly. Even if Trent hasn't put out a full length album in a decade, he's still aware of trends in music, and he's still aware of where Nine Inch Nails stands in terms of popularity. That's exactly why he doesn't want to become a nostalgia act. To be honest, I like what Trent & Atticus did with the EP trilogy. Each one was short, sweet, and to the point, and it let the music breathe a bit too. I can't really blame him for not wanting to go the traditional route of putting out a big album and touring for a year to support it, especially when Nine Inch Nails is not really a huge draw anymore and he's got a family to take care of. I don't think they're going to hang up Nine Inch Nails just yet, but things have definitely changed, and I think Trent would rather just roll with it and do what feels right instead of forcing himself to conform to whatever trends there are.
It has more to do with me seeing reactions to other rock albums released recently being pretty positive received and getting plenty of attention, and I do feel like I'm seeing NIN being discussed amongst young people more and more, part of me can't but internally believe that Trent's cynicism is painting a far more of a bleak image of everything. I do believe NIN is stlil relavant and that new NIN album wouldn't go unnoticed and just believe personally that the opposite is true

I do disagree with the idea of NIN not "being a huge draw anymore", especially considering how sucesflul the live shows been to this day.
No one's also forcing Trent to tour when he releases music, he could simply just release music and not care how it would be played live as David Bowie did during The Next Day era where he pretty much said "fuck it".

But yeah, if Trent feels it isn't time for NIN it's not time for NIN, I respect that, more than anything I guess a big part of me dislike this sort of a "self-defeatening" feeling I get behind what he is saying and it's a little sad. Especially since I feel like it's Trent perhaps being a little too pesimistic on music today while not seeing the good things amongst audiences still.

[stlkr]

I just want to whine/rant a bit regarding touring.

NiN has played only two gigs in my country.
I couldn't afford for tickets for both of the shows.
Now when I finally can afford for it - no more touring.
Just like Skinny Puppy - 40 years, two gigs in Poland and that's all.
I am glad that SP tickets weren't expensive.
I feel kinda bummed. Always wanted to see NiN perform live.
Just like COIL but now... It is just a dream.

[WorzelG]

I just want to whine/rant a bit regarding touring.

NiN has played only two gigs in my country.
I couldn't afford for tickets for both of the shows.
Now when I finally can afford for it - no more touring.
Just like Skinny Puppy - 40 years, two gigs in Poland and that's all.
I am glad that SP tickets weren't expensive.
I feel kinda bummed. Always wanted to see NiN perform live.
Just like COIL but now... It is just a dream.
I wouldn't take what he says about touring so much to heart, he's said it so many times before, it's like he's trying to convince himself rather than others and then I bet he'll get the itch again. I just think some people were born performers, and it's just who they are

[sweeterthan]

he wants to hang with his kids so you know what that means?
3 words: reznor family band.

[BRoswell]

he wants to hang with his kids so you know what that means?
3 words: reznor family band.

I mean, he did say that the first album he owned was from The Partridge Family. Bring it full circle!

[ZeroisGreg]

What does any of this have to do with Trent Reznor on Rick Rubin Podcast Tetragrammaton??

[Zimbo]

Yeah but it resulted in the last time NIN would ever play St. Louis, but that's just a personal thing for me

They didn't even play Wisconsin for HM. They haven't played Wisconsin since [WITH_TEETH].

[botley]

Someone on the official Discord server bumped into Atticus on the London Underground today, and apparently he said they will "probably" come back to play the UK again next year.

So, let's try not to read too much into TR kvetching on his friend's podcast about what may or may not be in NIN's future plans.

[tony.parente]

They didn't even play Wisconsin for HM. They haven't played Wisconsin since [WITH_TEETH].
Yikes, both our states got boned due to the chicago effect.

[sonic_discord]

Someone on the official Discord server bumped into Atticus on the London Underground today, and apparently he said they will "probably" come back to play the UK again next year.

So, let's try not to read too much into TR kvetching on his friend's podcast about what may or may not be in NIN's future plans.

So, what you're saying is that I need to start planning a trip to Europe next year JUST in case THOSE are the last shows they ever play?

[Zimbo]

Yikes, both our states got boned due to the chicago effect.

For Real, though. As much as I like Riot and have tolerated Lolla, there's too much diameter going on.

[bobbie solo]

I have hated what Rick Rubin has become for decades now. Basically does nothing on many artists records. After this podcast, I hate him much less.

[JustARandomGuy]

I still hate Rick Rubin as a producer but never had anything againts him as a person

[botley]

He seems like a really chill dude, and that Neil Young & Crazy Horse album he just did last year was pretty great. But I can't remember another new record he's produced that I liked all the way through for ten years or more.

[ZeroisGreg]

Why is there hate towards Rick? Does he come across as a bit snobby or hippieish? Is he the type of guy that would walk into the studio and is asked about how the track/song sounds and he says "It's good, but not great. Can you add more emotion to it?".

[allegate]

by his own admission he hasn't really produced an album in years

[WorzelG]

I see him as kind of an artist whisperer

[sonic_discord]

I see him as kind of an artist whisperer

Yeah, he's often credited with helping artists get back to basics and return to their roots.

[zecho]

Why is there hate towards Rick? Does he come across as a bit snobby or hippieish? Is he the type of guy that would walk into the studio and is asked about how the track/song sounds and he says "It's good, but not great. Can you add more emotion to it?".

Many of the albums he produced between 1999 and 2014 are mixed so loud that they clip worse than any other major producer's discography that I'm aware of. He's not an engineer, but it's too consistent for it to not be his decision. It's gotten better over time (no one's mistaking the albums for being defective anymore) but they're still over compressed messes most of the time. He also works almost exclusively with incredibly boring musicians, at least since 2010 or so. That's why I don't like him as a producer.

[stankeybearlover]

His production style is all about trying to get the artist to straddle the line between authenticity and commercialism. Which often doesn't work well if the artist doesn't have a strongly defined vision for the project and doesn't like to get involved with the engineering/production side of things. Then you get underdeveloped songs (often with strong hooks, though) with countless overdubs, that are mangled in a "radio-friendly" mix (i.e. overcompressed and clipped to hell).

[azad_ninja]

Yeah, the clipping at the high end drove me to return two discs in the early 2000s because i thought they were defective: SOAD's Mesmerize and Metallica's Death Magnetic. Both produced by Rubin. Metallica since released a proper master for download Death Magnetic that sounds great- and have since not worked with Rubin. Mesmerize has been stuck with that mix ever since.

[DVYDRNS]

He's a nice guy. but I cant really look at any album of his that think is that amazing in the last 20 years.

When I think of a producer that has an impact on a band, I think of someone like Flood. that dude has a feel.

[armogi]

He's a nice guy. but I cant really look at any album of his that think is that amazing in the last 20 years.

When I think of a producer that has an impact on a band, I think of someone like Flood. that dude has a feel.

yeah flood is awesome, his work on the last few pj harvey records is stellar, too bad he seems to be less active in the last decade or so

[Turbo2000]

I loved hearing a long, honest and relaxed conversation between Trent and Rick. One of, if not the best, interview with Trent I ever heard.

I don't keep track of albums Rick have produced but I love everything he did with Johnny Cash, Wildflowers is my favorite Tom Petty Album. I think what he does best is getting the artist to believe in themselves, their project and follow their inner vision.

I really like the last Neil Young & Crazy Horse album World Record and he also produced one of the contenders for album of the year IMO, Kesha's Gag Order. I had never heard Kesha before but this album blew me away. It hit me similar to the Halsey/NIN collaboration, pop artists going weird with honest and personal albums.

Ricks recent book on creativity, The Creative Act: A Way Of Being was amazing. I will be coming back to that book many times.