Shame

[butters]

Clearly one of the best of 2011. I've seen the film twice now and I can't stop thinking about the desperate sadness of it all.


http://litaonfilm.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shame-poster.jpg?w=604


The girl on the subway.

The hotel incident.

The uh "club scene."

Sissy.

Harry Escott's score vs. Hans Zimmer's Thin Red Line.

"New York, New York"

Oscar snubs.

Sex addiction.

Sexual abuse?

...and sure, penises. (Not that any nudity in this film was sexy whatsoever.)



Thoughts on this film anyone?

[thevoid99]

After seeing this and Hunger, I'm anxious for what Steve McQueen and Michael Fassbender can do. I really thought it was an amazing yet chilling film about addiction. I'm upset Michael Fassbender and Carey Mulligan aren't nominated for Oscars nor the film itself. It's truly top of the line in terms of its technicality and presentation. Not to mention that huge schlong of Fassbender's.

[Highly Psychological]

This must be one of the first films to portray realistically the devastating effect Sex Addiction?
People hear the word Sex Addict and think 'Pervert, Whore, Slut' etc. I think this film just shows it as loneliness and emptiness, sub zero self esteem and trying to fill some sort of bottomless non specific void, This is not a Saturday night film. Everyone looked drained exiting the cinema!
Interesting its taken so long to deal with this subject matter, its the most depressing film I have seen in a long time. Yet fascinating too, leaves powerful effect.
I have fallen in love with Carey Muliighan.

That soulless, characterless, apartment of his. just adds to the sense of nothingness. Stuff like that stood out for me.

[orestes]

About the ending: do you think Brandon's a changed man after Sissy's incident or does he follow through with the subway commuter's advances?

[butters]

People hear the word Sex Addict and think 'Pervert, Whore, Slut' etc. I think this film just shows it as loneliness and emptiness, sub zero self esteem and trying to fill some sort of bottomless non specific void...
That soulless, characterless, apartment of his. just adds to the sense of nothingness. Stuff like that stood out for me.

So true. Sex addict doesn't mean a guy who gets laid all the time for fun or the challenge or for pleasure. (ex. He never tried to get the cute blonde at the bar, he was going home in fact.) This movie really showed the addiction's emptiness. Very good point about the apartment.



About the ending: do you think Brandon's a changed man after Sissy's incident or does he follow through with the subway commuter's advances?

My thought is that he has not necessarily changed his ways, even though he wants to change, hence the hesitation we see. Further though, I think he may actually be interested in her like he was with his coworker, regardless of her being married, but knows exactly how real intimacy will end, again, hence the hesitation. That second idea may be a stretch on my part, but ultimately I think he follows her. It's not a movie about recovery.

[richardp]

This movie was phenomenal. I cannot fathom why it didn't get a ton of Oscar noms. At all. On of the most depressing films I've ever seen.

[konstantin]

i particularly liked how they didn't try to explain anything or give us a backstory. just broken people having broken lives. loved it.

and no, i don't think the ending implied positive change.

[richardp]

i particularly liked how they didn't try to explain anything or give us a backstory. just broken people having broken lives. loved it.

Exactly! The group of friends that I saw it with, we all sat around and came up with our own versions of their backstory. The line "We're not bad people. We're good people who come from a bad place" is so vague and yet works so well with the film.

[Lutz]

The classic Spanish movie FUEGO details sex addiction and is completely amazing.

I watched it like four times the week I downloaded it.

[Lutz]

All the local reviews trying to treat "sex addiction" as a serious topic are hilariously ridiculous.

I can't wait to see this!

[aggroculture]

Am I alone? I thought this film was poor. Basically a collection of cliches about young adulthood and alienation I've seen a million times before. I found it boring and generic: it also gave zero insight into porn. Fassbender's shaping up to be a great actor, but he had little here to work with or against. His penis is pretty much all Shame has going for it...

[konstantin]

i don't think the movie was about "insight" in any way. it's not how this particular director works. his previous one, Hunger, had zero exposition.

[Morad]

The movie has nothing to do with porn. It really was a harrowing portrayal of sex addiction - it's not about exploiting sex or pornography; it's all about us living in a world of access and excess. What really frustrated me about many of the reviews of the movie was that critics called it "unsexy", and it's shocking to me that critics expected a sexy movie just because of the nudity and the subject matter. Sex addiction isn't supposed to be sexy. It isn't.

Fassbender was brilliant, and Carey Mulligan played her part really well.

The title of the film really interests me too, because, while you don't know much about the siblings' past, you can see the contrast between the two. Brandon's chosen to hide his fears and pleasures while his sister instead exploits herself both emotionally and sexually. That scene where he starts unpacking all his old pornos and throwing them away - and the shock of seeing how many different hiding spots he had for them - was terrifying and insightful. He's ashamed of who he is, but it's not his fault. It's an addiction, like all other addictions.

Another idea that really interested me is that Brandon is the one who is being objectified. He isn't objectifying anybody. He is a man with a disease, and just like giving a drink to an alcoholic, the women (like the one at the club early in the movie) who sleep with him, unknowingly supply him with his addiction while they pursue their own pleasures.

I got to see the film's North American premiere at TIFF, and Fassbender and Steve McQueen had some fantastic insights onto why they decided to make the film and how they chose to approach it. Seeing it again last month made me love it even more. It is my second favorite film of 2011 (Tree of Life is still number 1), and may be one of my favorite films of all-time.

What a shame that the Academy felt threatened by the man's wiener. Either way, he wouldn't have won an Oscar for the performance any way. The Oscars are all about marketing, and Dujardin/Clooney have dominated that category for reasons beyond my comprehension. I'm kind of glad it didn't get nominated, because now the film will be remembered for the gem that it truly is.

[richardp]

The Blu-Ray release of this comes with a Digital Copy. Now, as much as I loved this film, I just can't find any reason whatsoever that I would need to watch that movie on my iPhone in public. Anyone who does is a brave soul. Brandon Sullivan would be proud. Or... SHAMED, if you will. ::roll rimshot::

[konstantin]

no word on when it's coming out yet...

[richardp]

no word on when it's coming out yet...

It's up for pre-order on amazon with cover art, so it must be awfully soon. My guess is the end of March.
http://www.amazon.com/Shame-Blu-ray-DVD-Digital-Copy/dp/B006OB3K56/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1328719721&sr=1-1

[Lutz]

I don't think they managed to make much of a case between cause and causation with the sex addict part of the story influencing his behaviour towards his sister. He was a cunt to her, she overreacted, he feels remorse (and he really did have every right to be angry with her after the appalling way she had acted toward him).

During the finale my mind just tuned out all the THIS IS A SERIOUS MOMENT original score and played Diana Ross over Michael Fassbender having hot sex.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEnKEcBvBvw

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

I got the sense that there was another unstated past traumatic experience between he and his sister that was the primary motivator for their shitty behavior toward one another.

[dpeters]

I got the sense that there was another unstated past traumatic experience between he and his sister that was the primary motivator for their shitty behavior toward one another.
This.

Whatever abuse they saw as children, I found this impact on their adult lives the most compelling part of each actor's portrayal.

[Morad]

This.

Whatever abuse they saw as children, I found this impact on their adult lives the most compelling part of each actor's portrayal.

I think that was hinted at when Brandon showed his date the bump on his head, and he said that him and his brother were playing and he got hurt - but as an audience, we know that he doesn't have a brother. Deconstructing this movie is fantastic fun. I remember after seeing the movie a second time, my friends and I went to a restaurant and talked about it the entire night.

[EPICRAGE]

I wish this was available online as it hasn't played nor will it be playing at any theater near me.

[Lutz]

In ten years time they should make a sequel to this with Fassbenders character married with children.

It can be called Sham.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Or maybe he learns to trade sex for violence, becomes a private dick and is tasked with finding someone's daughter in Harlem.

It can be called Shaft.

[orestes]

I'm surprised this slipped by without notice, but the movie was released on dvd last month.

[botley]

The Blu-Ray release of this comes with a Digital Copy. Now, as much as I loved this film, I just can't find any reason whatsoever that I would need to watch that movie on my iPhone in public. Anyone who does is a brave soul. Brandon Sullivan would be proud. Or... SHAMED, if you will. ::roll rimshot::I rented the movie on iTunes and watched it on my phone... no harm in that. Not like people around me give a fuck what I watch (one of the key observations of this film is that in our society "private" lives are spilling out into dangerously public spaces, but there is no visible consequence to it).

My take on the ending: the married woman on the subway has a similar affliction as Brandon. She can't help herself from trying to pick up men to have sex with outside of her marriage, and feels too ashamed to go through with it (hence her running away in their first scene). In the finale Brandon recognizes a kindred spirit, beyond their obvious physical attraction, and this is what gives him pause.

[butters]

Thanks for the heads-up Orestes, I haven't been paying attention to release dates.

Botley - nice thoughts on the ending, I'd definitely agree.

[botley]

Is sex addiction a real mental health diagnosis or is it just that our culture is ill?

[Lutz]

Is sex addiction a real mental health diagnosis or is it just that our culture is ill?

It's just made up for the movie.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Depends on what you're really talking about. It is not a 'real' diagnosis in that it is not listed in DSM-IV, but that doesn't mean it's not a real affliction, not a real thing that could be potentially diagnosed. There's no protocol for it because it's an understandably difficult condition to pin down and research along these lines is spotty, at best.

[botley]

So... it's this massive cultural phenomenon but there's no hard data to back it up? I know there is massive pressure to add it to the next revision of the DSM, because there's this giant movement that has sprung up to service people who "have it", but no one can figure out what to say about it medically? That sounds to me like a social illness.

It's just made up for the movie.
The movie never used the words "sex addiction" to my recollection.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Social illness is basically it. Whatever hard psychological component exists seems to fall within the more general purview of 'humans can become addicted to things they find pleasurable'.

But don't ask the right-wing radio, because holy moly do they have it in for boners and porn.

[Lutz]

The movie never used the words "sex addiction" to my recollection.

And to be incredibly obtuse... the movie didn't say much of anything at all.

[bobbie solo]

finally watched this. Fassbender is an incredible actor with a diverse skillset. he can do so many diff. types of roles so well. I thought the shots of hotel sex at the new Highline hotel were smart, as that was a real, gossipy thing that was in the news here when that hotel actually opened a few years ago.

Was Brandon looking to get his ass kicked on purpose that night at the bar? as in, he wanted punishment, etc?

[Reznor2112]

Was Brandon looking to get his ass kicked on purpose that night at the bar? as in, he wanted punishment, etc.


My interpretation is that he did indeed want some sort of response from the guy since he couldn't get it from the girl. Not necessarily a sexual one but a physical one none the less. At that point in the film, Brandon is at an emotional low and will take anything he can get. Which is the reason he goes to the club in the next scene which leads to the final sex scene.

This is one of my top 5 favorite films of all time hands down. McQueen has such an amazing direction and I would be perfectly fine with Fassbender being in all of his films as the lead. I encourage it.

As far as the hotel sex scene I remember reading that when they shot that, people were on the street applauding and Fassbender and the woman were waving at them.