Marilyn Manson Sexual Abuse Allegations

[WorzelG]

Evan Rachel Wood has finally named Manson as her abuser. For some reason the Instagram post won’t link, but it’s on her official account

[Swykk]

Marilyn Manson is officially named as Evan Rachel Wood’s abuser. Four others share their experiences.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/he-horrifically-abused-me-for-years-evan-rachel-wood-and-other-women-make-allegations-of-abuse-against-marilyn-manson?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm

[ltrandazzo]

Evan Rachel Wood has finally named Manson as her abuser. For some reason the Instagram post won’t link, but it’s on her official account

Before this becomes a Manson thread takeover, I want to address this - there hasn’t been any decision about the future of the Manson thread mainly because we just don’t talk about it. Speaking for myself, I think it’s because we all hate what it eventually turns into every time it’s given a chance to breathe. We do have a thread for this particular subject in the headlines forum, so I’d take discussion over there. I’d also ask each of you to be cordial about it because we’ll shut that down too if it turns into what happened the last time we closed the Manson thread.

[sweeterthan]

Before this becomes a Manson thread takeover, I want to address this - there hasn’t been any decision about the future of the Manson thread mainly because we just don’t talk about it. Speaking for myself, I think it’s because we all hate what it eventually turns into every time it’s given a chance to breathe. We do have a thread for this particular subject in the headlines forum, so I’d take discussion over there. I’d also ask each of you to be cordial about it because we’ll shut that down too if it turns into what happened the last time we closed the Manson thread.

i think we should move worzelg’s post to the sexual asshatery thread. having a discussion about this in an opinion thread will only lead to victim blaming.


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[eachpassingphase]

Marilyn Manson is officially named as Evan Rachel Wood’s abuser. Four others share their experiences.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/he-horrifically-abused-me-for-years-evan-rachel-wood-and-other-women-make-allegations-of-abuse-against-marilyn-manson?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm

I’m already seeing fans insist Evan’s a clout chaser. Which...imagine seeing Marilyn Manson’s name in a sentence and calling THE OTHER PERSON a clout chaser.


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[WorzelG]

I completely forgot about the sexual asshattery thread, sorry

[eachpassingphase]

Also, his love of telling fables to increase his mythos is going to come back to bite him in the ass now that this is out.

People are going to be going through his interviews and that book of his with a fine tooth comb now. And that is not going to be in his favor at all. The stuff the public used to think of as interesting and sleazy rockstar behavior, we now recognize as just narcissistic abuse.


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[sweeterthan]

he made a video where he beats the shit out a woman who looks like her. fuck him.


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[ltrandazzo]

And the clout chasing thing is hysterical considering that she’s on a prominent HBO show. Weirdly loyal folks just confuse me.

[eachpassingphase]

And the clout chasing thing is hysterical considering that she’s on a prominent HBO show. Weirdly loyal folks just confuse me.

Exactly. At this point she is more culturally relevant than he is. So the idea that she’s bringing this up for attention is laughable.


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[thefragile_jake]

He literally said in a 2009 interview with SPIN that “I have fantasies every day about smashing her skull in with a sledgehammer.”

Fuck this dude. Brian’s been coasting off a burnt out legacy he built in the ‘90s and from an outsider’s perspective familiar with his work because of being a Trent Reznor fan, the most intriguing thing to keep up with as far as Manson was concerned was how much of an ass he’d make himself on stage after refusing to get help.

[ickyvicky]

Do you think he'll release a statement?

[october_midnight]

If so, it'll most likely just be a denial. I recall someone asked him about it (Metal Injection?) about half a year ago and the bloated shitbag literally just hung up on them. Fuck him forever, piece of shit.

[allegro]

I’m already seeing fans insist Evan’s a clout chaser. Which...imagine seeing Marilyn Manson’s name in a sentence and calling THE OTHER PERSON a clout chaser.
“Fans” like this make me sick.

Jesus Christ, is it that big of a stretch to think he’s guilty of this? Come ON. His book SCREAMS misogyny.

[WorzelG]

I really hope Lindsay Usich comes out of this OK. I noticed her Instagram has locked comments.

When I was a student years ago in halls of residence, me and a friend had to call security because of a boyfriend getting aggressive with a friend of ours and have him booted out, but she went back to him. What do you do in that situation?

[eachpassingphase]

I really hope Lindsay Usich comes out of this OK. I noticed her Instagram has locked comments.

When I was a student years ago in halls of residence, me and a friend had to call security because of a boyfriend getting aggressive with a friend of ours and have him booted out, but she went back to him. What do you do in that situation?

I know, I’m concerned about her now too. Especially given the details that Dan shared on Twitter, because it sounds like he’s specifically witnessed him abusing Lindsay. Abusers are often the most dangerous right when you try to leave or right when they’ve been exposed.


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[WorzelG]

I know, I’m concerned about her now too. Especially given the details that Dan shared on Twitter, because it sounds like he’s specifically witnessed him abusing Lindsay. Abusers are often the most dangerous right when you try to leave or right when they’ve been exposed.


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yes this is one of the worst thing about this, that someone is likely in the position Evan or Esme were in years ago, in danger. It’s not like some groupie story coming out from years ago where the perpetrator has changed and not likely to cause any harm. MM seems like a psycho

[Magnetic]

I'm glad she came forward and finally said it. I believe her, and I believe all of them. He's a sack of shit.

[Shadaloo]

Well...there it is.

I'm glad she finally came forward and made it official.

There's no defending this, no going to bat for him, no rationalizations.

I remember watching the Dead To The World VHS...it had a brief clip of the Groupie film (which I didn't find out about until years later), and I remember going "That had to be fake, right?"

I believe every single one of them.

The part of my heart that's a seventeen-year old kid Manson fan is burning up and dying now.

I wonder if I'll still be able to listen to the old records at all after this.

[allegro]

I know, I’m concerned about her now too. Especially given the details that Dan shared on Twitter, because it sounds like he’s specifically witnessed him abusing Lindsay. Abusers are often the most dangerous right when you try to leave or right when they’ve been exposed.

She just got married so she’s in that brainwashed fearful phase right now. He’s going to keep her pretty isolated and manipulated, but if she wakes up she’ll have ways out. I know this from personal experience in a relationship with an abusive ex-husband who had a trail of sycophants.

Manson HAS exes so they DID get out.

[eachpassingphase]

She just got married so she’s in that brainwashed fearful phase right now. He’s going to keep her pretty isolated and manipulated, but if she wakes up she’ll have ways out. I know this from personal experience in a relationship with an abusive ex-husband who had a trail of sycophants.

Manson HAS exes so they DID get out.

She also got the “mean girlfriend” edit by fans early on in their relationship. Her Instagram comments have actually been locked down for a while because his fans somehow decided that she was mean to Manson and so a bunch of them started hate accounts and would follow her around the internet shit talking her.

That’s scary as hell - being isolated by your spouse AND your spouse’s legion of fans isolating you further with their online abuse? I know her mom recently died too. Does she even have anywhere she could go if she left? That’s one of the things Dan brought up back in September, that Manson would tell her she would be homeless if she left him.

Now that I think more about it, the more pissed I’m starting to become with other members of his band/circle who Manson is still friendly with who HAD to of known. Why the fuck is Dan the only man who worked with him who is saying anything?

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/ShaneWatch/status/1356249626240671745

[botley]

I wonder if I'll still be able to listen to the old records at all after this.
No judgment intended on anyone who is wrestling with this, or on the "separate his actions from his art" crowd... but it's been pretty much impossible for me to listen to him for YEARS, so this doesn't change anything from where I sit. The question is: why did so many around him enable this behaviour for so long? What part does media coverage, including fan social media chatter, play in that enabling?

[wizfan]

I remember watching the Dead To The World VHS...it had a brief clip of the Groupie film (which I didn't find out about until years later), and I remember going "That had to be fake, right?"

I remembered that today, too! I still remember how shocked I felt the first (and only) time I watched that clip.

[Jinsai]

I would quote some of the most disturbing parts of the NYT article to try to express how horrified I am by some of these details, but it just feels wrong to even talk about it. The whole article should come with a trigger warning. i really thought this persona he projected was part of an act; more "shock rock" stage antics and stuff... but I think deep down I knew he was a horrible person - that book couldn't have all been some fictional character that he created. Because I like some of the music, I think I even rationalized it a bit, as in "hey, ok, so he's obviously narcissistic, but a lot of musicians are" and idiotic ways to spin it. Probably so I didn't feel bad for giving him money. I even liked his new album, and I feel a little guilty about that now.

I was not even what I would call a very big fan. Maybe I was when Antichrist came out... and maybe I really really liked Mechanical Animals, but that's neither here nor there. The guy is a piece of shit, I believe her completely, and I've heard some other pretty shocking stories from people in the music industry about his behavior. I won't repeat them, because I can't verify them because I wasn't there, but I think I've known for a while that he's a pretty awful human.

Even then, I didn't really imagine him capable of doing some of these things, and I don't know why I gave him the benefit of that doubt.

[tony.parente]

Looks like he’s been dropped from Loma Vista so that’s tight.

[eachpassingphase]

Looks like he’s been dropped from Loma Vista so that’s tight.

I’m not seeing him listed on their website anymore, but I also don’t see an announcement of any kind?


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[allegro]

I’m not seeing him listed on their website anymore, but I also don’t see an announcement of any kind?



https://variety.com/2021/music/news/marilyn-manson-dropped-by-label-evan-rachel-wood-abuse-1234897586/


"In light of today’s disturbing allegations by Evan Rachel Wood and other women naming Marilyn Manson as their abuser, Loma Vista will cease to further promote his current album, effective immediately,” the statement reads. “Due to these concerning developments, we have also decided not to work with Marilyn Manson on any future projects"

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

I mean first Twiggy and then his bff Johnny Depp and now Manson...A ring of abusers..Twiggy is on my friends list on fb. He used to have a photo album of all myspace era Miley Cyrus bikini selfies from when she was 14 and the photo album was entitled "mmmmmmm" so that was a red flag......I just got into a discussion with a friend who is defending Manson claiming he thinks ERW is doing it for fame.....So there will still be people defending him.....I know girls who still listen to Chris Brown.....Manson will do the James Franco thing and lay low for a year, then some indie label will sign him....I doubt its the last we hear from pigboy

[october_midnight]

I’m not seeing him listed on their website anymore, but I also don’t see an announcement of any kind?

https://twitter.com/LomaVistaRC/status/1356353704115515398

[MrLobster]

I'm hoping that the timing of this is deliberate... he comes out with an album that people kinda liked and then she does this to torpedo him and send him to the depths to be forgotten...

Sure, it could have happened any time up until now, but the reception of other releases before this haven't anywhere near as positive.

[Magtig]

ERW's instastories have far more detailed accounts from each of these women. I think I'm going to be sick. This is awful. My heart breaks for these people, and all who suffer from domestic abuse. I hope they can find some justice and healing. I'm glad they found a way out of the nightmare.

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[allegro]

ERW's instastories have far more detailed accounts from each of these women. I think I'm going to be sick. This is awful. My heart breaks for these people, and all who suffer from domestic abuse. I hope they can find some justice and healing. I'm glad they found a way out of the nightmare.

Her red flag post is really worth reading, for everyone to know what to AVOID. https://www.instagram.com/p/CIW1XSgF0os/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Also, a big FUCK YES to this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYpPaQl_EJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

People will keep insisting that you immediately leave. But it's never that simple. There has to be a plan in place; it's like escaping Cuba or something, you have to secretly move all your mail, bank deposits, bank accounts, all kinds of shit way in advance, so that when you're finally leaving, everything is all ready to go, whether you're leaving for another secret apartment or a shelter. Because the first thing they do when they find out you're leaving is lock down all your money.

[slave2thewage]

I’ve been on a deep dive into the Manson stuff today and, from what I’ve seen, expect a lot more stories to come out. There’s also a few women out there saying Lindsay was complicit in their abuse.

https://lolcow.farm/snow/res/1138599.html#1138599 - latest thread in what I’ve been reading. The top has a good overview of what’s been going on with drama regarding this over the last year.

[Magtig]

Her red flag post is really worth reading, for everyone to know what to AVOID. https://www.instagram.com/p/CIW1XSgF0os/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Also, a big FUCK YES to this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYpPaQl_EJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

People will keep insisting that you immediately leave. But it's never that simple. There has to be a plan in place; it's like escaping Cuba or something, you have to secretly move all your mail, bank deposits, bank accounts, all kinds of shit way in advance, so that when you're finally leaving, everything is all ready to go, whether you're leaving for another secret apartment or a shelter. Because the first thing they do when they find out you're leaving is lock down all your money.

I grew up in a household with a person who was abusive to me. It's a different dynamic because it was my sister. She ratfucked the deep wiring of my brain starting at age six. How the fuck does one escape from THAT? Reading those accounts literally made me sick to my stomach. This stuff is never as simple as people think. I don't even tell people my situation because they nearly always give me some version of, 'Yeah. Siblings fight like cats and dogs, huh? My brother was an asshole too.' Was your brother a mentally abusive sadist with psychopathy? It just gets dismissed, especially because it's coming from a man, but that's the unique dynamic of my particular abuse, I guess. The only reason I'm saying it here is because it doesn't really matter. In real life? I almost never tell anyone.

I would note, based on that link, that I do tend to attract abusive people into my life because of all of this. So, it did tweak me a little reading about the red flag where people have "crazy" people in their life. I don't call the string of abusive people from my past crazy though, but I probably used to. A lot of therapy and many years later I've realized I'm constantly subconsciously trying to resolve the situation. Now I'm very conscious about the people I pick to include in my life, but I still default to seeking approval of assholes who deserve neither approval nor attention from me.

Sorry, I don't mean to make this about me. I'm triggered. I hate all of this. Really fucking hate it.

I think I'm going to go on a drive.

[onthewall2983]

Comments on Facebook about this are astounding in their stupidity, ignorance and misogyny. Conservatives are defending Marilyn Manson in the year 2021, in the name of the hill they are all seeming to die on, "cancel culture". Don't they have BIGGER fish to fry right now?

[poinoup]

I started typing a post, and deleted it all. It just wasn't worth it. Bastard is not the one who needs the real focus on them right now. His words are useless, the victims' are not.

[eachpassingphase]

I’ve been on a deep dive into the Manson stuff today and, from what I’ve seen, expect a lot more stories to come out. There’s also a few women out there saying Lindsay was complicit in their abuse.

https://lolcow.farm/snow/res/1138599.html#1138599 - latest thread in what I’ve been reading. The top has a good overview of what’s been going on with drama regarding this over the last year.

So, I feel like a nut right now because I am sucked into this hole now too, and it confirms my suspicions that he's got an assistant or something (does Judd still work for Manson?) with a bunch of alts constantly running interference on people talking about the accusations.

I've come across several accounts on reddit and other social media platforms who only have post history defending Manson and literally nothing else going months back. I got into a couple of arguments with such accounts today, and suddenly got suspicious because the style of writing for all these accounts were very similar, down to some of the same grammatical mistakes across accounts.

It's probably just an overzealous fan with a disturbing devotion to Manson, but the whole thing felt off. I obviously need to take a break from this story, because I sound like a Q-Anon conspiracist right now lol

[ickyvicky]

His statement:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKxZavzAGOe/?igshid=1xkxxy0r625vd

[Jinsai]

Starz has now dropped the upcoming scenes starring Manson from the new season of American Gods and will be replacing him with a different actor.

[eversonpoe]

His statement:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKxZavzAGOe/?igshid=1xkxxy0r625vd

what an absolute piece of shit.

i am so, so proud of ERW for speaking out, for surviving, for being unabashedly her in the face of this bullshit.

[Jinsai]

It's really a disgustingly dismissive way to respond to the allegations she's laying out in detail, and his defense doesn't really feel too impressive or convincing, especially considering his comments about how he fantasized about killing her with a sledgehammer every day.

[Disassociative]

I guess I'm fortunate in a way that while I love the albums he has released, I've never been fond of him as a person so that 'disconnect' between art and artist was already there much like how I love the Smashing Pumpkins but Billy Corgan to me is a piece of shit. But just... ew. Poor ERW. She's been sitting on this for so many years and the fact she finally mustered up the courage to publicly name him is admirable and she hopefully gets a little bit of relief or liberation from doing this.

[Disassociative]

Oh and I went onto the Provider Module forum out of curiosity to see how people would react and some of the comments are as disgusting and degrading as I would expect.

[allegro]

Wow: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKxzHDEFnvU/?igshid=d70vjxwu25nn

[onthewall2983]

I really hate it when people disguise their abuse as a kink.

[allegro]

I really hate it when people disguise their abuse as a kink.

Yeah, that includes people who’ve had their lives completely ruined by abuse and PornHub (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/09/worlds-biggest-porn-site-under-fire-over-videos-pornhub).

I watched a TV documentary about this and thought, “how are these sites legal? How is this happening?” Apparently, for the same reasons people believe Brian Warner is just a kinky guy.

[poinoup]

I had an ex who was sexually assaulted simply because she looked a fair bit like Tori Amos. She was in her first year of college and he used that to his advantage. She broke down and told me, and immediately thought I would leave her and be disgusted. I didn't and her parents didn't when she finally told them. Her sister and her were emotional messes. No one questioned, no one accused her of attention seeking, we believed. That's one of who knows how many stories that have come out. Who knows how many more victims the abuser above had... And this is in college, where you have to look at them in classes every day.

But that's going a little off topic. I've seen a few defenders online with just disgusting takes. Reversing roles, blaming women, misogyny, "she liked it", MGTOW juvenile bullshit. "That's what happens when you give women a voice! They destroy us men!"

[WorzelG]

After reading Dan Cleary’s tweets it’s clear that the music industry really needs to clean up its act, especially when he was talking about Manson being shitty to Lindsay Usich as late as 2015 and everyone just quiet about it. But who would be responsible for this and where does the buck stop? Like who would you even report this to if you’re a worker at a venue and see some shit?

[Haysey_Draws]

I still cannot believe how much people will defend this shit as "clout chasing"...do they have ANY idea what kind of personal risk victims open themselves up too by raveling this stuff? Of course they don't, they just want to be able to keep listening to their music or watch their films guilt free. What makes it worse here is anyone who actually read his quotes from book or comments have known that this was coming FOR YEARS.

What's annoying as fuck is the same people defending him for "cancel culture" are the same people who were laughing at how washed up he was, but now a women was abused? Ah no can't be having that, Manson for life...fucking pathetic!

[botley]

Comments on Facebook about this are astounding in their stupidity, ignorance and misogyny. Conservatives are defending Marilyn Manson in the year 2021, in the name of the hill they are all seeming to die on, "cancel culture". Don't they have BIGGER fish to fry right now?

Well, he did say back in 2000 that he would have voted Republican.

[DVYDRNS]

ALL abusive partners say this. They say nobody will believe us, it’s all in our head, etc. When an old friend of my ex tried to help me, my ex publicly went after him and then that friend publicly apologized... TO MY EX! Because he was afraid of him.

Lindsay has a twin sister. She likely has other friends or family who’d help her. She needs to understand, first, that it’s abuse. Because the abuser keeps telling you it’s normal, and there’s something wrong with YOU.


Because they are afraid of him, too. Abusers are manipulative bullies.

All's I know is that I read that book (which he didn't even WRITE, btw - Neil Strauss wrote the book) and I was HORRIFIED at his disgusting level of blatant disregard toward women that came across as male supremacy. It was just staggering. And I'm not talking some "rock star" excusable shit. I've read plenty of "rock star" books and NONE of them had this shit. This was some level of psycho that was inexcusable. He made Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee, who led the most debauched lives on the planet, look positively chivalrous. There is something seriously WRONG with Brian Warner that only many years of psychotherapy can begin to fix. He's a danger to society.

The dude is, seriously, one of the most unattractive humans to have ever lived. The only way he's gotten dates is by association and his money. If he was an accountant, he'd be an incel who'd likely be in prison for burying the bodies of hookers in his back yard by now.


Neil Strauss literally has a company and a few books that teaches rich incels how to convince hot chicks to sleep with them. He’s not far behind Manson himself as far as being a decent human.

[onthewall2983]

Well, he did say back in 2000 that he would have voted Republican.

Source?

[tony.parente]

It's ironic how many of my (now ex) friends on facebook who lambasted Donald Trump for his rape accusations and who held the torch for the Me Too movement and spouted "believe her" automatically started calling ERW a stupid bitch and immediately said all 5 or 6 women were liars who regretted consensual sex. He's the Donald Trump of shock rock.

[thefragile_jake]

Wow: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKxzHDEFnvU/?igshid=d70vjxwu25nn

Perhaps my ignorance, but was this a first step into actually taking him to court? I keep reading it and it just comes across a "I'm here for you" in the form of a formal letter.

[october_midnight]

Ugh, remembered randomly about that shitty MM forum Provider Module or whatever it's called, decided to peruse for the first time in years. Naturally, the VERY small number of people with brains in their skulls are being lambasted by the 'it's cancel culture!' clown shoes. Just a collection of the shittiest morons alive.

[allegate]

I had an ex who was sexually assaulted simply because she looked a fair bit like Tori Amos. She was in her first year of college and he used that to his advantage. She broke down and told me, and immediately thought I would leave her and be disgusted. I didn't and her parents didn't when she finally told them. Her sister and her were emotional messes. No one questioned, no one accused her of attention seeking, we believed. That's one of who knows how many stories that have come out. Who knows how many more victims the abuser above had... And this is in college, where you have to look at them in classes every day.

But that's going a little off topic. I've seen a few defenders online with just disgusting takes. Reversing roles, blaming women, misogyny, "she liked it", MGTOW juvenile bullshit. "That's what happens when you give women a voice! They destroy us men!"
I had to look that up and found this: "Males Getting Triggered Over Women" sounds about right.

[Jinsai]

So I don't know why i decided I to try to find this music video I've seen mentioned, where Manson apparently beats up someone who looks like ERW. Maybe it's morbid curiosity. I'm guilty of that sometimes. Maybe it's because I want to see if it's as blatant and horrible as others have said. I didn't know what the song is called though, so I tried a few google searches for things like "abusive Marilyn Manson music video" and stuff, and the first thing I stumbled on was some age-restricted video for a song called Saint. So I watched that, and like many things on the internet, wished i hadn't. I'm not even sure what it was all about, but that's where my search attempts ended.

Anyway, not recommended.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/JewelStaite/status/1356630232673841154

it's maddening is what it is.

[sweeterthan]

So I don't know why i decided I to try to find this music video I've seen mentioned, where Manson apparently beats up someone who looks like ERW. Maybe it's morbid curiosity. I'm guilty of that sometimes. Maybe it's because I want to see if it's as blatant and horrible as others have said. I didn't know what the song is called though, so I tried a few google searches for things like "abusive Marilyn Manson music video" and stuff, and the first thing I stumbled on was some age-restricted video for a song called Saint. So I watched that, and like many things on the internet, wished i hadn't. I'm not even sure what it was all about, but that's where my search attempts ended.

Anyway, not recommended.

i don’t remember the name of the song but i remember watching it and thinking “why would you want to market yourself as someone who abuses women?” i remember commenting on twitter or facebook that he should redo the video because it’s not a good look.


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[allegro]

Neil Strauss literally has a company and a few books that teaches rich incels how to convince hot chicks to sleep with them. He’s not far behind Manson himself as far as being a decent human.
Yes, The Game! Ugh.


Perhaps my ignorance, but was this a first step into actually taking him to court? I keep reading it and it just comes across a "I'm here for you" in the form of a formal letter.
I think it’s demanding an investigation? It’s from a Congresswoman and to the DoJ and the FBI. I assume she’s going that route because he’s crossed state lines, so it becomes Federal.

I assume they’re looking at him, with multiple victims from across the country coming forward, with charges that include what could legally be considered kidnapping (locking victims in a room is kidnapping), as a dangerous predator in the same vein as R. Kelly but without the underage part. Kinda like Keith Raniere (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/nxivm-cult-keith-raniere-sentenced.html).

[Archive_Reports]

So many comments out there saying shit like, "what did you expect dating someone like him?" Disgusting.

[DVYDRNS]

Yes, The Game! Ugh.




Yea I actually worked for his company for a minute as a video editor... and peaced the flip out when I realized what was going on. Its gross men trying to act like they're helping others. when really its just a nasty cash grab. exploiting men by teaching them how to exploit women. anyhow I digress.

[october_midnight]

Officially dropped from CAA now, too.

[Jinsai]

I actually read that book, The Game. Not because I was looking for a manual to brainwash women into having sex with me, but a female friend recommended it to me, saying it was creepy and hilariously ironic, and "unfortunately fascinating." I agree with that, and it is also in equal parts intriguing and infuriating. Also, a lot of the stuff in it has to be complete bullshit. Besides how strangely gripping it is in parts, it's also this kind of guidebook to dehumanizing, tricking, and manipulating women. Some of the "techniques" described in it are really just about breaking down a woman's self-esteem, making her feel embarrassed or left-out, making her feel inferior in various ways. It was a long time ago that I read this, but one of them was some kind of psychological ploy where you deliver a random and "seemingly playful" insult, and then follow it up with a compliment. And like my friend who was "recommending it" said, after you read it, you could see people trying these "tricks" and she wanted to spot all the red flags.

It's so weirdly self-aware and yet completely oblivious to the implications that what it's suggesting is tantamount to abusive manipulation.

[botley]

Source?

An interview with Tucker Carlson, of all people, in Talk Magazine I believe, though he backpedaled later.

[october_midnight]

FWIW, Laney Chantal (Jeordie White’s wife) publicly supported ERW, saying on IG that he’s an abuser and she’s seen it for over eight years.

[eachpassingphase]

FWIW, Laney Chantal (Jeordie White’s wife) publicly supported ERW, saying on IG that he’s an abuser and she’s seen it for over eight years.

I thought those two split up? Am I remembering wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[october_midnight]

Oh did they? I'm not exactly up to speed lol. I remember they were married at least.

[Jinsai]

Now Shudder is reshooting the scenes from an upcoming Creepshow featurette that starred Manson. This is good news... I always look forward to any new Creepshow offerings, hit or miss, but I don't want this guy's presence tarnishing the series.

[allegro]

It's ... um ... "interesting" that Asia Argento is found to have been liking and commenting on a lot of Manson's posts in IG and saying hi to Lindsay; Asia Argento, she who capitalized on the "MeToo" movement, who was later reported to have sexually assaulted a young boy on a film set and then her bf Anthony Bourdain had to pay the then-adult victim to go away so he wouldn't wreck Argento's "career," then Argento was such an asshole Bourdain committed suicide, and Rose McGowan completed distanced herself from Argento and now McGowan is publicly supporting ERW and all other Manson victims. What a fucking web.

[WorzelG]

It's ... um ... "interesting" that Asia Argento is found to have been liking and commenting on a lot of Manson's posts in IG and saying hi to Lindsay; Asia Argento, she who capitalized on the "MeToo" movement, who was later reported to have sexually assaulted a young boy on a film set and then her bf Anthony Bourdain had to pay the then-adult victim to go away so he wouldn't wreck Argento's "career," then Argento was such an asshole Bourdain committed suicide, and Rose McGowan completed distanced herself from Argento and now McGowan is publicly supporting ERW and all other Manson victims. What a fucking web.
I think it’s a bit much that Rose McGowan talks of Hollywood / music being a cult when you look at the cult surrounding her and she’s milking it to the max. Also the Manson thing to my mind is actually quite a bit worse than Harvey Weinstein, awful though he was

[poinoup]

Legit conversation I just had with an acquaintance online.

"Why are we worried about Marilyn Manson right now? We have more important things to worry about, like CoVid!"
"We do have to keep other things in focus, sure, but just because there's a pandemic does not mean abuse like this just vanishes. We have to "worry" to no end about abuse by manipulative people looking for their own gratification or pleasure.
"That's just stupid, you're looking at it pretty wrong. Look at the guy, they knew what they were getting into. The dude wanted to shock everyone, and now he does and it's a bad thing?"
"That was 25 years ago... A lot has changed since then, and who knows what else has been done over those 25 plus?"
"Bullshit, he should embrace it all. How many chick fans would line up for that treatment? That man is what many aspire to be, a real rock star. If she didn't like it, leave."
"Yeah, I'm going to go now."

I took out a few of the more colourful lines, especially the one quoting that John Lennon song.

[allegate]

Legit conversation I just had with an acquaintance online.

"Why are we worried about Marilyn Manson right now? We have more important things to worry about, like CoVid!"
"We do have to keep other things in focus, sure, but just because there's a pandemic does not mean abuse like this just vanishes. We have to "worry" to no end about abuse by manipulative people looking for their own gratification or pleasure.
"That's just stupid, you're looking at it pretty wrong. Look at the guy, they knew what they were getting into. The dude wanted to shock everyone, and now he does and it's a bad thing?"
"That was 25 years ago... A lot has changed since then, and who knows what else has been done over those 25 plus?"
"Bullshit, he should embrace it all. How many chick fans would line up for that treatment? That man is what many aspire to be, a real rock star. If she didn't like it, leave."
"Yeah, I'm going to go now."

I took out a few of the more colourful lines, especially the one quoting that John Lennon song.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/869/891/12f.png

[onthewall2983]

I don't know how to embed Twitter on here, but I found this (https://twitter.com/gwensnyderPHL/status/1356674773992894465) thread, and within it another thread about his ties to neo-Nazis.


Fascism and misogyny are intimately connected

Misogyny and sexual violence are a core part of the fascist project, and always have been.

Manson is just one in a long line of examples.

[poinoup]

Mr. MGTOW's take on women is extremely frightening. He was smitten with a waitress at a bar and grill, and we somehow got them to start talking to maybe hit it off. We went back to a buddy's place thinking he needed that to release some anger. No lie, 15 minutes later he shows up with this huge grimace on his face. We had our thoughts why, but his reason was (paraphrased), "She's just a waitress, guys. All she wants is my money because I make far more than her. (Rant about women)"

Attraction to her was good enough, but blah otherwise... leech. It was 2018. He was speechless when buddy's wife told him to just shut the hell up and make HER a sandwich.

[WorzelG]

Sometimes I think it’s just ingrained in men from socialising or upbringing or both to protect other men

[Jinsai]

It's ... um ... "interesting" that Asia Argento is found to have been liking and commenting on a lot of Manson's posts

She also apparently directed that [S]Aint music video, and there's some weird stuff going on there... all of it feels confused, slimy, and sloppily grotesque... and it feels like there's a TON to unpack there, but I am not going to even start doing that.

[M1ke]

These allegations were always discussed in the Manson thread, certainly none of this is a shock to anyone who's read things over in that tread. Same with his serious addiction issues as well, it's all been well documented here for years.

He's clearly become a monster now, and the part I'm having reconciling is whether or not he always was. I remember watching interviews with him back when he was making good music, being impressed and believing that a lot of the controversy around him was rumour and showmanship, and thinking that underneath that was a real decent person trying to make a point.

And maybe that was just me being a naïve teenager, wanting something to be true that really never was. Or maybe he started that way, but turned into the monster he is now over time.

I don't know. I just know that he's turned into an addict and an abuser now and without massive amounts of therapy and rehab, he'll never stop being those things.

Clearly, he's living in denial about having problems, and he's got someone new to abuse, and money and fame to feed his addictions, he's probably not going to stop. Unless this investigation really picks up and he ends up in jail, it's probably going to continue. And jail really is the right place for him at the moment.

[poinoup]

Wasn't Saint the one they put with the greatest hits CD because it was so controversial? Wait... did I just see cunnilingus on YouTube? Oh yeah, well adjusted individual, I don't see how these statements are legit. Oh, what is going to come back on him is going to be an even larger stone to drag him down.

Man, that video is like if Trent decided use the Closer video treatment for every single, trying to draw attention more and more to, well, his real self-destruction. Then it shows diminishing results each time. "It's not a pig's head this time, it's a giraffe with the neck! How about TWO hearts?"

I think I need to just unwind from this all with some mindless YouTube for the rest of the day. Take care of yourselves!

[WorzelG]

I hope Trent writes something to ‘properly’ distance himself from this shit because that autobiography of Mansons totally paints him as culpable in this shit, people are pointing this out on twitter and they’re not wrong to do so. Come on Trent, in an interview on Radio 1 UK just before their Fragile tour he said some stuff about Manson shitting on him and how everything he did was consensual. I have it on tape somewhere but I need to work out how to transfer it to digital. Trent has about a billion times more to lose in this shit. I mean what does Manson have to lose? His fans would be done a favour from the effort of pretending any of the shows were good to begin with, Hazekiah would save a fortune and maybe get his life back

[onthewall2983]

Rose McGowan voiced support today to Wood and the others (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/rose-mcgowan-marilyn-manson-abuse-allegations-1122681/)

[icklekitty]

You're good people, ETS.


I hope Trent writes something to ‘properly’ distance himself from this shit because that autobiography of Mansons totally paints him as culpable in this shit, people are pointing this out on twitter and they’re not wrong to do so. Come on Trent, in an interview on Radio 1 UK just before their Fragile tour he said some stuff about Manson shitting on him and how everything he did was consensual. I have it on tape somewhere but I need to work out how to transfer it to digital. Trent has about a billion times more to lose in this shit. I mean what does Manson have to lose? His fans would be done a favour from the effort of pretending any of the shows were good to begin with, Hazekiah would save a fortune and maybe get his life back


I was curious about this yesterday, so I downloaded a PDF and ran a search for every mention of Trent. Most of the mentions were a) Manson fangirling over him or b) saying "*various slurs about women* - Trent seemed to feel sorry for her, I guess he has a soft spot for the ugly ones" and things to that effect. c) Manson going sulky when Trent started to distance himself in order to record TDS. d) Manson being jealous of Courtney Love existing around Trent.

Saying that, I'm not pleased that Jeordie got a thank you during the Hall of Fame speech.

[mi470]

was just informed of this. this is horrifying. he needs to say something. https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1356677509744652295

[Jinsai]

I do have to say, I am getting a little tired of people all over the place saying "HOW did you not see that he was horrible and abusive!? He's been for years! The writing was on the wall! Didn't you read this interview from 200x?!"

I'm not going to say that's as logically flawed as victim blaming, and it's definitely not as awful in intent, but it is annoying. I dunno! I kinda grew up, stopped listening to music like that really, and every time I turned on the news he seemed like a repulsive, flailing human being, and so I stopped paying attention to his life story. At this point, it's not about him it's about his victims. And so this similar sorta thing, where people are saying "she should have seen what a horrible person he is!!! Why didn't she read this interview or whatever" are missing the point a little I think, and being awful. That stuff actually is victim-blaming, and it's disgusting.

For the past 20 or so years I have been pretty much actively ignoring what he's been up to though, so I just thought he was a shitty person with a clown shock act who did a lot of drugs. And apparently he hangs out with Johnny Depp, I remember hearing about that. There really hasn't been any reason for me to "keep up" with Manson

[icklekitty]

I do have to say, I am getting a little tired of people all over the place saying "HOW did you not see that he was horrible and abusive!? He's been for years! The writing was on the wall! Didn't you read this interview from 200x?!" It's especially frustrating if you spent 20 years screaming that it was happening and nobody listened to you - people see what they want to see. It's always the person that wouldn't do it. One little slip of the mask and the real monster comes out.

[WorzelG]

You're good people, ETS.




I was curious about this yesterday, so I downloaded a PDF and ran a search for every mention of Trent. Most of the mentions were a) Manson fangirling over him or b) saying "*various slurs about women* - Trent seemed to feel sorry for her, I guess he has a soft spot for the ugly ones" and things to that effect. c) Manson going sulky when Trent started to distance himself in order to record TDS. d) Manson being jealous of Courtney Love existing around Trent.

Saying that, I'm not pleased that Jeordie got a thank you during the Hall of Fame speech.
Exactly, but Trent needs to say it! It’s so frustrating because it seems like when ERW was talking about how MM shits on people, blackmails them and ruins their lives and engages in social media ruination of them, Trent was one of the first people he did that to!

[Jinsai]

It's especially frustrating if you spent 20 years screaming that it was happening and nobody listened to you - people see what they want to see.

That's totally fair... and I've excused people for being dumpster fires in their personal lives to say that the work is still good, but that's a philosophical can of worms that I think we already have another thread on.

I guess with him, I just stopped paying attention to his personal life and everything about it. I heard stories and crazy anecdotes about him from people throughout the years, but you never know how much of all that stuff is true, and it wasn't spelling out this sort of abuse.

[Magtig]

I just feel like an idiot for supporting him and genuinely hoping he'd get it together all these years. What to do with my memories of concern and financial support for a violent rapist who helped me survive youth? He fooled almost everyone, but that doesn't stop me from feeling like a fool.


These allegations were always discussed in the Manson thread, certainly none of this is a shock to anyone who's read things over in that tread. Same with his serious addiction issues as well, it's all been well documented here for years.

He's clearly become a monster now, and the part I'm having reconciling is whether or not he always was. I remember watching interviews with him back when he was making good music, being impressed and believing that a lot of the controversy around him was rumour and showmanship, and thinking that underneath that was a real decent person trying to make a point.

And maybe that was just me being a naïve teenager, wanting something to be true that really never was. Or maybe he started that way, but turned into the monster he is now over time.

[eachpassingphase]

Manson lies as easily as inhaling and exhaling air. The stories he told in his book he has told in interviews elsewhere, and the details frequently change.

He’s not an honest narrator, and I am not planning on taking his word seriously about anything involving Trent or anyone else. He’s clearly lying about his treatment of ERW and other women, why would we assume he would tell the truth about anyone else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WorzelG]

Manson lies as easily as inhaling and exhaling air. The stories he told in his book he has told in interviews elsewhere, and the details frequently change.

He’s not an honest narrator, and I am not planning on taking his word seriously about anything involving Trent or anyone else. He’s clearly lying about his treatment of ERW and other women, why would we assume he would tell the truth about anyone else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’ll tell you what it will be fucking ironic if Trent is cancelled not for #believewomen but #believemarilynmanson (and I totally believe those women over. Manson, I always have)

[thefragile_jake]

Hazekiah would save a fortune and maybe get his life back

Wonder how his reaction to all this is.

[Swykk]

I don’t give a fuck about what Hazekiah thinks about anything. It’d be a long rambling post with different fonts, though.

I also don’t think Trent needs to say anything at all. How long has it been since they were friends or somewhat close? 2000? 2001? That was a long time ago.

[GibbonBlack]

Also, I might be remembering it wrong, but isn't the main reason they fell out because Trent felt "that fucking book" was full of lies about him?

/edit sorry, just to clarify, what I mean is; If Trent came out and said all of the things in the book about him were made up stories by an edgy shock rock star he'd be on pretty solid footing as he's been saying it for over 20 years anyway

[eachpassingphase]

Also, I might be remembering it wrong, but isn't the main reason they fell out because Trent felt "that fucking book" was full of lies about him?

/edit sorry, just to clarify, what I mean is; If Trent came out and said all of the things in the book about him were made up stories by an edgy shock rock star he'd be on pretty solid footing as he's been saying it for over 20 years anyway

That was the impression I had back in the day. People in the NIN sub are pulling quotes from old articles on the subject. Here are a few that stuck out to me in that thread -

Rock Sound Magazine Dec 1999:
The most obvious example is 'Starfuckers Inc', inspired by the salacious rumours that Ms. Love spread, and some sulphurous lines in Marilyn Manson's autobiography. In fact Manson's betrayal is something that Trent can't excuse.
"He's one of the few people that I let back into my life but then he associated me with things that I always condemned coming from him and he knew it. Those written allegations had no other aim than to hurt me. I don't know why."


Kerrang Sep 1 1997:
You feel Manson violated your trust?
"If certain people do certain things which cross a line of what is decent, I don't deal with them any more," he answers cautiously. "With Manson, that line has been crossed. He said some very ignorant, mean, malicious things. You can believe me or you can believe someone else, but on that tour I was peripherally involved as an observer, and suddenly I'm pictured as the ringleader. It's just stirring up shit. That friendship was a big fuck-up for me," he adds wearily. "It fucked me up pretty good."

[poinoup]

I was recommended this video about an hour ago https://youtu.be/xXMvtT2gwog

Is there anything wrong with this Edwin guy?

[allegro]

I don't know how to embed Twitter on here, but I found this (https://twitter.com/gwensnyderPHL/status/1356674773992894465) thread, and within it another thread about his ties to neo-Nazis.

Did you see how he forced one of his victims to buy all kinds of Nazi memorabilia in Asia even though SHE’S JEWISH but she ended up having to bring him this Nazi shit or suffer Manson consequences? That’s just so fucked up.

[allegro]

I don’t give a fuck about what Hazekiah thinks about anything. It’d be a long rambling post with different fonts, though.

I also don’t think Trent needs to say anything at all. How long has it been since they were friends or somewhat close? 2000? 2001? That was a long time ago.

Manson makes it pretty clear in his book that he regards Reznor as a wimp who doesn’t know how to (or refuses to) sufficiently abuse women like Manson. Everything he says about Reznor in that book is said with either direct disdain or a tone of superiority. There’s no mistaking it. It’s prominent throughout the book. He directly accuses Reznor of things in ways that are obviously intended to hurt him. Manson is clear: HE is the “Prince of Darkness” and Reznor is Mr. Sensitive. Manson seems to feel that it’s his job to make people believe that he truly is Satan. The stuff he does is what Satan would do. The book contains long bullshit praise of Aleister Crowley. I have a degree in Literature, but it doesn’t take an education to figure out that Manson is REALLY JEALOUS of Reznor and set out to fuck him (and others) over in his book. Manson deserves ZERO mercy. Reznor should make a statement, as the father of young boys who will never grow up to be Mansons.


was just informed of this. this is horrifying. he needs to say something. https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1356677509744652295

That’s from Manson’s book.

[tony.parente]

Dude following Evans Instagram...at what point to we just start calling him Marilyn Weinstein? Not joking, this shit is horrible.

[Magtig]

Dude following Evans Instagram...at what point to we just start calling him Marilyn Weinstein? Not joking, this shit is horrible.It's worse. Incredibly violent mentally, physically, and sexually.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

[allegro]

Now it appears that Manson’s wife is the equivalent of Allison Mack (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Mack).


It's worse. Incredibly violent mentally, physically, and sexually
Let’s not forget that Weinstein sexually assaulted many victims (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51225608) (over 20 accuse him of rape). Using one’s powerful position to gain access to victims is similar in both cases.

[Tom]

That was the impression I had back in the day. People in the NIN sub are pulling quotes from old articles on the subject. Here are a few that stuck out to me in that thread -

Rock Sound Magazine Dec 1999:
The most obvious example is 'Starfuckers Inc', inspired by the salacious rumours that Ms. Love spread, and some sulphurous lines in Marilyn Manson's autobiography. In fact Manson's betrayal is something that Trent can't excuse.
"He's one of the few people that I let back into my life but then he associated me with things that I always condemned coming from him and he knew it. Those written allegations had no other aim than to hurt me. I don't know why."


Kerrang Sep 1 1997:
You feel Manson violated your trust?
"If certain people do certain things which cross a line of what is decent, I don't deal with them any more," he answers cautiously. "With Manson, that line has been crossed. He said some very ignorant, mean, malicious things. You can believe me or you can believe someone else, but on that tour I was peripherally involved as an observer, and suddenly I'm pictured as the ringleader. It's just stirring up shit. That friendship was a big fuck-up for me," he adds wearily. "It fucked me up pretty good."



Pleased to see that reddit post got a little traction. I'm surprised by how short folks memories are; I know it was 20 years ago, but this was the much publicised reason for their much publicised feud. It took all of two minutes to find those quotes. I'm also surprised by the lack of thought behind the Twitter post, since the author seems to be an otherwise thoughtful person.

[Haysey_Draws]

[QUOTE=allegro;525061]Yes, The Game! Ugh.
/QUOTE]

I remember that! I had a friend who was a lot like me, very socially awkward and not great around women, but he was a very smart and nice person. He was then told to read The Game to help him with women...over the course of a few years he become an insufferable person, he started viewing everyone as "how can they help ME have fun" then actual people, the GF's of the group HATED him for how he acted around them. He moved down under and got an admittedly very attractive GF, but when they visited for a wedding (i had the room next door) all they did was argue, violently, but seemed to just be together so they could have fun and get wasted.

My friends at the time always said to me "you should read that, look what it did for him"...and i wanted nothing less to be like what he had become!

[Sutekh]

Not surprised. And yes the PM forum has some of worst pseudo intellectual trash ever - I've seen someone (an absolute pseud bore who clearly loves the sound of his own voice) say the FBI can be dismissed as they are "tools of the left wing paradigm". Ah yes, Manson that right wing firebrand whom the Liberal establishment is always trying to neutralise. Some people need to spend less time online, or more.

It's great that Manson might be stopped now, and tbh the rest of us can take stock. We had no idea right? But looking back, it was all there.

I think I'm correct in guessing most of us are 30+? I'm sad to say things were just shittier back then, we thought less of his appalling remarks and behaviour. Thankfully things have moved on, but let's not boomer it up and say it was a different time - he was always a shit, we just didn't want to see it.

I remember thinking all of that stuff about cutting himself when Evan didn't pick up the phone was kind of pathetic and unbecoming of someone his age - but I don't recall anyone recognising and calling it out as abuse.

We can move forward into a better world now, but only if we be honest with ourselves about what has happened here. We have to demand better, of performers and of ourselves

[sweeterthan]

Pleased to see that reddit post got a little traction. I'm surprised by how short folks memories are; I know it was 20 years ago, but this was the much publicised reason for their much publicised feud. It took all of two minutes to find those quotes. I'm also surprised by the lack of thought behind the Twitter post, since the author seems to be an otherwise thoughtful person.

the twitter post pissed me off for multiple reasons but the biggest being that people are making assumptions about reznor based on something that a known liar and abuser wrote to sell books at a time when he was mad at reznor. there’s no line of women saying this about him. in the year or two after he stopped hanging out with manson, he was hanging out with kennedy, a self proclaimed virgin who’d cuddle up with him in interviews.

i know i’m biased but i don’t believe reznor deserves a reckoning or needs a pass. trent isn’t manson on any level. manson wishes he was trent. it’s sad that reznor said over 20 years ago that manson wrote things to hurt him and it’s still working all these years later.

[tony.parente]

Trent was a horrible drug addict for over half his life, i'm fucking terrified of something happening during those years. A few years ago an older friend of mine who was a rockette (literally verifiable, theres tons of photos of her out there) told me a pretty worrisome story but I didn't know how to process it at the time and I sort of wiped it from my brain until the last few days.

[WorzelG]

the twitter post pissed me off for multiple reasons but the biggest being that people are making assumptions about reznor based on something that a known liar and abuser wrote to sell books at a time when he was mad at reznor. there’s no line of women saying this about him. in the year or two after he stopped hanging out with manson, he was hanging out with kennedy, a self proclaimed virgin who’d cuddle up with him in interviews.

i know i’m biased but i don’t believe reznor deserves a reckoning or needs a pass. trent isn’t manson on any level. manson wishes he was trent. it’s sad that reznor said over 20 years ago that manson wrote things to hurt him and it’s still working all these years later.
Agreed, I have Kennedy’s book and she also used to sleep over at his house, in his bed
, platonically, at one point she calls it ‘a safe bed’ and I just don’t think you’d say that about someone who you knew to be abusive and she did seem to be in the know

[onthewall2983]

I was never a fan of his music at all (and to be frank, NIN isn't in my personal top tier of musical artists, 2nd tier definitely if I had to think about it. I just really dig you guys) so I never read his book, or paid much attention to what he did at all, certainly after he dithered on the vine of pop culture and people moved on to someone or something else to be outraged over. So a lot of this is kind of new to me, although I did see ERW's testimony about him (but didn't name him) on Twitter months ago and it really enraged me. Nothing gets my blood boiling more than the thought of this kind of abuse, towards women and children. This doesn't make me special and I'm not a white knight or anything, but this subject overall is personal to me. As I've gotten older I've learned to take myself out of it a little when I hear stories like this. But there still is that part of myself that gets riled up, and let the thoughts in my head play out before I can breathe deep and move on. But seriously, fuck this guy. Put him under the jail, and compensate the victims using every last cent of his.

[Jinsai]

I feel it's strange that the story about Reznor in that book is surfacing again now. It's almost like a distraction from some real allegations, to "well, what about this cocaine-fueled, meandering, mean-spirited fever dream Marilyn Manson had twenty years ago?"

I actually do wonder if Manson hanging out with Neil Strauss was a primer for honing some grooming, manipulating, and abusive techniques.

[icklekitty]

Manson makes it pretty clear in his book that he regards Reznor as a wimp who doesn’t know how to (or refuses to) sufficiently abuse women like Manson. Everything he says about Reznor in that book is said with either direct disdain or a tone of superiority. There’s no mistaking it. It’s prominent throughout the book. He directly accuses Reznor of things in ways that are obviously intended to hurt him. Manson is clear: HE is the “Prince of Darkness” and Reznor is Mr. Sensitive. Manson seems to feel that it’s his job to make people believe that he truly is Satan. The stuff he does is what Satan would do. The book contains long bullshit praise of Aleister Crowley. I have a degree in Literature, but it doesn’t take an education to figure out that Manson is REALLY JEALOUS of Reznor and set out to fuck him (and others) over in his book. Manson deserves ZERO mercy. Reznor should make a statement, as the father of young boys who will never grow up to be Mansons.

Spot-on.


Trent was a horrible drug addict for over half his life, i'm fucking terrified of something happening during those years. A few years ago an older friend of mine who was a rockette (literally verifiable, theres tons of photos of her out there) told me a pretty worrisome story but I didn't know how to process it at the time and I sort of wiped it from my brain until the last few days.

I would be pretty surprised if he hadn't fucked up somehow, but if he did anything premeditatively abusive like these things Manson's done, it would have happened without drink and drugs. Being a dick vs being a monster, you know.

[sweeterthan]

I feel it's strange that the story about Reznor in that book is surfacing again now. It's almost like a distraction from some real allegations, to "well, what about this cocaine-fueled, meandering, mean-spirited fever dream Marilyn Manson had twenty years ago?"

I actually do wonder if Manson hanging out with Neil Strauss was a primer for honing some grooming, manipulating, and abusive techniques.

the person spreading that story on twitter is doubling down on it too. apparently he believes everything manson says. sick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slave2thewage]

Evan posted on Insta about receiving reports about underage girls. It’s getting even worse. Can’t say that I’m surprised though.

[Haysey_Draws]

Noticing a lot of socials are labeling Trent in the same vain as Manson, based solely on what Manson wrote all those years ago, in what many chose to ignore years ago as the rumblings of a liar written in anger, but now he is the same as a monster?
I guess the real test will be if anyone comes out and says Trent did something other then Manson, or whether people will defend Trent from what (in all likelihood) is a lie. Real telling is this was all when TR was fucked on the drugs, that since he got sober there's not been a peep of anything bad about him, in fact he has just grown more respect around the industry...where as Manson's stories just got worse! TR should probably say something though, no doubt he probably did some shit when off his face, but i doubt it's anywhere near the level of Manson.

[mfte]

I actually do wonder if Manson hanging out with Neil Strauss was a primer for honing some grooming, manipulating, and abusive techniques.

Doubtful. Neil Strauss didn't start writing about the PUA community until the early mid 2000s. His eventual foray into that lifestyle hardly came off as insidious, hateful, and incel-y as it did with men like Mystery or Owen Cook.

[WorzelG]

This is a pretty vile story from 2011. Not sure how you can get away with this sort of thing for so many years, especially with social media?

CKwXXPdA1G_

[Magnetic]

Noticing a lot of socials are labeling Trent in the same vain as Manson, based solely on what Manson wrote all those years ago, in what many chose to ignore years ago as the rumblings of a liar written in anger, but now he is the same as a monster?
I guess the real test will be if anyone comes out and says Trent did something other then Manson, or whether people will defend Trent from what (in all likelihood) is a lie. Real telling is this was all when TR was fucked on the drugs, that since he got sober there's not been a peep of anything bad about him, in fact he has just grown more respect around the industry...where as Manson's stories just got worse! TR should probably say something though, no doubt he probably did some shit when off his face, but i doubt it's anywhere near the level of Manson.

I believe that Manson lied about TR. TR said this ages ago when it came out.
I think there's a huge difference between being fucked up and being an ass vs. grooming people and premeditated behavior.

[versusreality]

I fear Trent will get dragged down with this just based off the general public's lack of knowledge/general public associating Trent with Manson as "the goth guys of the 90's" or some shit. Even with quotes from Trent distancing himself from that and basically saying Manson was lying.

I hope I am wrong.

[sweeterthan]

I fear Trent will get dragged down with this just based off the general public's lack of knowledge/general public associating Trent with Manson as "the goth guys of the 90's" or some shit. Even with quotes from Trent distancing himself from that and basically saying Manson was lying.

I hope I am wrong.

that is my fear as well. if it was a victim accusing him of something, i’d like to think i’d feel differently. but that’s not what’s happening. it’s some dude who was a manson fan with 40k followers who wants to bring nin down too. i feel like this person is acting unfairly because they’re pushing the words of the abuser and leaving out the part where reznor defended himself after the book came out. i mentioned this to him twice on twitter and he’s thus far ignored me.


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[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Manson admitted on Howard Stern a couple of years ago that he and Trent had a 3 way with some girl they met backstage (and this was right after he made up with TR so this wasn't when he was in slander mode). I remember the story Stern said years ago when he went to a strip club in New Orleans in the mid 90s and about 5 different strippers told him they were dating Trent Reznor. Pretty obvious TR was no angel. I certainly don't think TR was abusing women like Brian Warner, but TR certainly wasn't living the most pristine lifestyle hanging out w Manson and Twiggy....I mean David Bowie used to go with underage girls yet he seems to be regarded as the messiah and nobody can dare say anything bad about him. Dig through Bowie's closets and you won't like what you find

[allegro]

Dude, everyone knew Reznor was dating strippers back then. And three-ways with willing participants may be morally reprehensible to your Priest, but they’re not illegal.

None of this has anything to do with the abuse of which Brian Warner is accused.

[Jinsai]

the equivalency thing going on in general is just incredible.

[Tom]

Manson admitted on Howard Stern a couple of years ago that he and Trent had a 3 way with some girl they met backstage (and this was right after he made up with TR so this wasn't when he was in slander mode). I remember the story Stern said years ago when he went to a strip club in New Orleans in the mid 90s and about 5 different strippers told him they were dating Trent Reznor. Pretty obvious TR was no angel. I certainly don't think TR was abusing women like Brian Warner, but TR certainly wasn't living the most pristine lifestyle hanging out w Manson and Twiggy....I mean David Bowie used to go with underage girls yet he seems to be regarded as the messiah and nobody can dare say anything bad about him. Dig through Bowie's closets and you won't like what you find

Didn't we do this already in the Manson thread? Oh yes, here we go:


Don't conflate sordid antics between consenting adults with sustained patterns of horrendous domestic abuse.

[allegate]

Manson admitted on Howard Stern a couple of years ago that he and Trent had a 3 way with some girl they met backstage (and this was right after he made up with TR so this wasn't when he was in slander mode). I remember the story Stern said years ago when he went to a strip club in New Orleans in the mid 90s and about 5 different strippers told him they were dating Trent Reznor. Pretty obvious TR was no angel. I certainly don't think TR was abusing women like Brian Warner, but TR certainly wasn't living the most pristine lifestyle hanging out w Manson and Twiggy....I mean David Bowie used to go with underage girls yet he seems to be regarded as the messiah and nobody can dare say anything bad about him. Dig through Bowie's closets and you won't like what you find

ಠ_ಠ

[firewlker]

Manson admitted on Howard Stern a couple of years ago that he and Trent had a 3 way with some girl they met backstage (and this was right after he made up with TR so this wasn't when he was in slander mode). I remember the story Stern said years ago when he went to a strip club in New Orleans in the mid 90s and about 5 different strippers told him they were dating Trent Reznor. Pretty obvious TR was no angel. I certainly don't think TR was abusing women like Brian Warner, but TR certainly wasn't living the most pristine lifestyle hanging out w Manson and Twiggy....I mean David Bowie used to go with underage girls yet he seems to be regarded as the messiah and nobody can dare say anything bad about him. Dig through Bowie's closets and you won't like what you find

Since the Manson thread everytime I see a comment from you on this forum related to this (or even not), it's full of shit and this time isn't different at all.

[allegro]

When Bowie died, the underage girl subject was discussed at length (how it was somehow “acceptable” among elite rockstars at the time but is absolutely reprehensible now) and Bowie absolutely was not let off the hook for that or any other dumb shit in his history. NOBODY is a messiah.

[WorzelG]

Manson admitted on Howard Stern a couple of years ago that he and Trent had a 3 way with some girl they met backstage (and this was right after he made up with TR so this wasn't when he was in slander mode). I remember the story Stern said years ago when he went to a strip club in New Orleans in the mid 90s and about 5 different strippers told him they were dating Trent Reznor. Pretty obvious TR was no angel. I certainly don't think TR was abusing women like Brian Warner, but TR certainly wasn't living the most pristine lifestyle hanging out w Manson and Twiggy....I mean David Bowie used to go with underage girls yet he seems to be regarded as the messiah and nobody can dare say anything bad about him. Dig through Bowie's closets and you won't like what you find
The whole stripper thing makes me think, well at least they’re going to be of consensual age. I’ve never seen Trent linked with strings of barely legal teens like Manson. Also the people he was romantically linked to in the mid 90s were Courtney Love and Tori Amos who are both actually older. (Also Mariqueen is 16 years younger which in Hollywood terms is not that much younger at all)

[WorzelG]

When Bowie died, the underage girl subject was discussed at length (how it was somehow “acceptable” among elite rockstars at the time but is absolutely reprehensible now) and Bowie absolutely was not let off the hook for that or any other dumb shit in his history. NOBODY is a messiah.
I looked up Lorri Maddox on wiki and I really do not understand why anyone would want to do that! Was it for some sense of rebellion, like doing something illegal? The fact that Jimmy Page would go to the lengths of keeping her locked in hotel rooms and visit her because he knew it was illegal, like why not just date an 18 year old who would likely be similarly hot?? I don’t understand the desire or the point of this ‘underage girls’ thing when they weren’t actually paedophiles, it was like some weird trophy thing.

[allegro]

The groupie board that shall not be named (lol) said he used to date the typical too-skinny goth chicks and average NOLA exotic dancers, and Manson poked fun at him for this in his book, the level of “ugly” women that Reznor dated. Again, just some weird toxic shit from Manson.

But us old board members remember Reznor dating a young deaf woman for a few years, even learning some American Sign Language to learn to communicate with her.

WorzelG - Page had a serious relationship with a woman back home who was the mother of his child. NO idea this fixation with teens, but it was everywhere, there was even a teen groupie magazine! I used to see it on magazine racks right next to 16 and Tiger Beat! There were other “famous” underage groupies (Sable Starr was with Iggy Pop wtf). Totally gross. See: https://pleasekillme.com/star-magazine

[WorzelG]

The groupie board that shall not be named (lol) said he used to date the typical too-skinny goth chicks and average NOLA exotic dancers, and Manson poked fun at him for this in his book, the level of “ugly” women that Reznor dated. Again, just some weird toxic shit from Manson.

But us old board members remember Reznor dating a young deaf woman for a few years, even learning some American Sign Language to learn to communicate with her.
didn’t Saul Williams talk of her having a bad reaction to one of his performances because, although deaf, she felt the music vibrations?

[implanted_microchip]

I get that this is a NIN forum but it seems lousy for the conversation about this to be based around if Trent is going to be unfairly tossed in. The focus should be on this main man’s crimes and the current network of people who allowed it. The allegations so far against Manson are almost all from the past decade and involve numerous women being roped in through collaborations and meet and greets involving everyone on his tours and in his management enabling and concealing these actions. A lot of people should be held accountable here, and his labels and agencies dropping him shouldn’t absolve them. No one does this at the level he clearly has for so many years without others helping it happen and silencing those who object. Just like Hollywood, this is an industry not only enabling but designed to prop up people who use their status to prey on others and there should be a real look into why it is that someone this famous could get away with violence, rape and exploitation of fans and artists while using their tours and fame as a way of cultivating vulnerable people to use and discard at their will. People who have worked on tours have commented on this corroborating stories and sharing more. If low level crew knew of all this, am I supposed to believe bands on those tours didn’t have some inkling?

Evan’s shared a lot of stories from a lot of women about intense, horrific relationships from the past decade. He’s been able to have that many abusive relationships without anyone in a position of authority noticing? They should all be nailed to the wall and there should be a demand to reevaluate the entire music industry. It’s no secret bands have been using tours to rape and exploit girls for over 50 years.

No one does what someone as famous as Manson has done without a lot of people not only looking the other way but also aiding and abetting the behavior and until that’s changed, there will always be another person like this who exploits the whole system. Manson was allowed to gloat, brag and show off in interviews for years about his violence and behavior, he attacked band members onstage openly, he physically assaulted journalists and made death threats to them publicly online, and all the while this was passed off by the media as “entertaining” and a part of the appeal. This is someone whose behavior was rewarded, made to be seen as alluring and turned into something to admire and consider essential by an entire industry. I hope the women coming forward get to see him face some sort of justice but I also hope it’s remembered that this isn’t something only one person made possible and that a reckoning for that whole system occurs. If there isn’t a fundamental change to these industries it will only happen again and again, more sophisticated than before and we’ll see a whole other generation of artists and entertainers full of violent narcissists who are told by the world they thrive in that they can do whatever they want to whoever they like. It’s all inexcusable, and I’m worried it will keep happening because the conversation is always centered around one person’s actions and never the institutions that allowed them to get away with it for so long. A lot has to change or this will be nothing more than a bullet point on an already long list.

[eachpassingphase]

Y’all, I’m not trying to lecture anybody here but we need to be careful of bringing up every single girl we’ve ever heard about Trent dating, in this thread in particular.

It seems like it has the potential to spiral into an unhelpful discussion that will muddy the waters about the very real accusations involving Manson.

Unless there is a specific accusation made against Trent, I don’t think it’s helpful to talk about his romantic life outside of clearing his name via the anecdotes he’s provided himself in interviews or whatever.

This is a really tricky situation, and I would hate to see somebody outside of this board misinterpret offhand gossip about his private life in here. It wouldn’t be the first time that’s happened.

I’m speaking to myself on this one too, not trying to jump on anyone’s ass.

This whole thing is just so shitty. And I want to kick Manson in the head, lol.

[M1ke]

Unless we start hearing about accusations against Trent from victims and not from Manson, I don't think there's anything for any of us to say about it.

And as to whether or not he knew what Manson was doing, even if he did, stopping it isn't a thing that one person can do when you're in an industry that enables it and has been used to enabling it for years.

It takes a much bigger movement to end that kind of industry-wide abuse, which is really just starting now with the MeToo movement. It's long overdue, but in the 90s and early 00s, whether he knew or not, Trent wouldn't have been able to stop it.

[poinoup]

What's the name of that dude from like 20 years ago who told all the bullshit stories about sex and partying? Google says Tucker Max. Warner reminds me a lot of that douche. Making up the story as he goes along to make it seem more "RAWK STAR" than it was. The line didn't blur, it vanished in that delusional, abusive mind. It wasn't Brian Warner doing that to them, it was Marilyn Manson! They loved it because he was who he was! God of Fuck! Ugh...

"I'm on Howard Stern, the most popular DJ in the world... gotta make something seem crazier than it was. "So we were drinking, huh, out of fresh skulls we just dug up, contemplating the universe and how the fascism of it all is contained in those very skulls. Then, uh, we shot guns into the air in front of the police station!"

Or the interview where he happy exclaims he put a gun into the editor from Spin's mouth...

We don't know what transpired on that tour, and this is probably editing, but if you watch the El Duce/Manson part on Closure, you don't see a certain singer anywhere at all. He was more focused about singing "Broken Hearts are for Assholes."

When I saw Manson in Starfuckers and the easter egg on AATCHB, all I could think was, "Well, this isn't going to last long..."

[allegro]

The focus should be on this main man’s crimes and the current network of people who allowed it.
Thank you.

One of the fans who witnessed some disturbing stuff, who was 20 at the time (a broken IG link was posted here) is getting a rash of shit for not “doing something” when she and her fiancé witnessed it. She said she was young and afraid, and they’re pushing back at her.

But it’s patently ridiculous, the idea that a FAN (particularly a FEMALE fan) can DO anything about an entire system like this. WHAT exactly should she have “done?” Said it was wrong? Give me a break. Let’s imagine how THAT would have turned out. How about calling the cops ... on a TOUR BUS. One person vs. all those other people, in a moving vehicle.

This is why victims don’t report anything: Fear and intimidation are built in. Sure, if you aren’t there, it’s easy for you to say what YOU would do. But you’re full of shit.

The “network that allowed it” and how to define that is complicated; certainly, a system should exist as to where people can safely report this information without fear of reprisal, etc. Right now, that system does not always exist. There also exists a power structure wherein people are mostly looking out for themselves and what’s in it for them, vs. helping someone else. (That’s what happened with me.) I’m not sure if that makes them legally responsible or liable, though. There are plenty of cases in history of people witnessing things and refusing to “get involved” in order to protect themselves.

[eachpassingphase]

Wes Borland just confirmed that he saw some shit. Didn’t specify what exactly, but he was around when Manson was with Evan.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/wes-borland-calls-marilyn-manson-a-bad-fking-guy-who-needs-to-come-to-terms-with-his-demons/


Some of the holdouts on the Manson sub are finally coming around to acceptance now that Wes confirmed he saw something.

On the one hand, it’s sad that it takes a man speaking up for a woman to be believed. On the other hand, I am glad he spoke up.

[WorzelG]

I get that this is a NIN forum but it seems lousy for the conversation about this to be based around if Trent is going to be unfairly tossed in. The focus should be on this main man’s crimes and the current network of people who allowed it. The allegations so far against Manson are almost all from the past decade and involve numerous women being roped in through collaborations and meet and greets involving everyone on his tours and in his management enabling and concealing these actions. A lot of people should be held accountable here, and his labels and agencies dropping him shouldn’t absolve them. No one does this at the level he clearly has for so many years without others helping it happen and silencing those who object. Just like Hollywood, this is an industry not only enabling but designed to prop up people who use their status to prey on others and there should be a real look into why it is that someone this famous could get away with violence, rape and exploitation of fans and artists while using their tours and fame as a way of cultivating vulnerable people to use and discard at their will. People who have worked on tours have commented on this corroborating stories and sharing more. If low level crew knew of all this, am I supposed to believe bands on those tours didn’t have some inkling?

Evan’s shared a lot of stories from a lot of women about intense, horrific relationships from the past decade. He’s been able to have that many abusive relationships without anyone in a position of authority noticing? They should all be nailed to the wall and there should be a demand to reevaluate the entire music industry. It’s no secret bands have been using tours to rape and exploit girls for over 50 years.

No one does what someone as famous as Manson has done without a lot of people not only looking the other way but also aiding and abetting the behavior and until that’s changed, there will always be another person like this who exploits the whole system. Manson was allowed to gloat, brag and show off in interviews for years about his violence and behavior, he attacked band members onstage openly, he physically assaulted journalists and made death threats to them publicly online, and all the while this was passed off by the media as “entertaining” and a part of the appeal. This is someone whose behavior was rewarded, made to be seen as alluring and turned into something to admire and consider essential by an entire industry. I hope the women coming forward get to see him face some sort of justice but I also hope it’s remembered that this isn’t something only one person made possible and that a reckoning for that whole system occurs. If there isn’t a fundamental change to these industries it will only happen again and again, more sophisticated than before and we’ll see a whole other generation of artists and entertainers full of violent narcissists who are told by the world they thrive in that they can do whatever they want to whoever they like. It’s all inexcusable, and I’m worried it will keep happening because the conversation is always centered around one person’s actions and never the institutions that allowed them to get away with it for so long. A lot has to change or this will be nothing more than a bullet point on an already long list.
Totally agree that the music industry is toxic as fuck. I’ve said in a previous post, what are the lines of command? Where do you go if you work in a venue and see some abusive shit?. It seems to me that people in music and film want to project this fuzzy image of themselves and give the attitude that ‘corporations’ are evil and artists are just here to provide feels for entertainment but if you work in an office, there’s chains of command that you can go down, yes I’m sure it doesn’t work in a lot of cases but they make the effort, it seems to me music and film doesn’t even make that effort to enable any of its employees or customers to feel safe?

[firewlker]

Thank you.

One of the fans who witnessed some disturbing stuff, who was 20 at the time (a broken IG link was posted here) is getting a rash of shit for not “doing something” when she and her fiancé witnessed it. She said she was young and afraid, and they’re pushing back at her.

But it’s patently ridiculous, the idea that a FAN (particularly a FEMALE fan) can DO anything about an entire system like this. WHAT exactly should she have “done?” Said it was wrong? Give me a break. Let’s imagine how THAT would have turned out. How about calling the cops ... on a TOUR BUS. One person vs. all those other people, in a moving vehicle.

This is why victims don’t report anything: Fear and intimidation are built in. Sure, if you aren’t there, it’s easy for you to say what YOU would do. But you’re full of shit.

The “network that allowed it” and how to define that is complicated; certainly, a system should exist as to where people can safely report this information without fear of reprisal, etc. Right now, that system does not always exist. There also exists a power structure wherein people are mostly looking out for themselves and what’s in it for them, vs. helping someone else. (That’s what happened with me.) I’m not sure if that makes them legally responsible or liable, though. There are plenty of cases in history of people witnessing things and refusing to “get involved” in order to protect themselves.

Wes Borland is getting some rash of shit too for not "doing something" after mentioning what he saw in Manson's house.

[allegro]

Y’all, I’m not trying to lecture anybody here but we need to be careful of bringing up every single girl we’ve ever heard about Trent dating, in this thread in particular.
We don’t know that data, we’re mostly talking shit from 25 years ago.
kleiner is right in that the focus was conveniently taken OFF of Brian Warner, which I suspect was by design.

There may have been some good intentions behind the Twitter poster, but he’s actually not helping the investigation and is just muddying the waters.

The first thing that needs to happen is to do something about Brian Warner.

THEN, maybe something can be “done” about the “system” which is NOT solely in the music and film industry, BUT IS EVERYWHERE!!

It’s TOXIC MASCULINITY, and it’s worldwide, in every class and culture. In every industry.

It’s also often sociopaths and psychopaths.


Wes Borland is getting some rash of shit too for not "doing something" after mentioning what he saw in Manson's house.
People “assume” that SO MUCH of what they see “must be between consenting adults” but ISN’T.

Two cops in Milwaukee were approached by a naked and bleeding boy, one handcuff dangling from his arm, drunk and pleading for help. Jeffrey Dahmer told the cops the kid was 19 and they were just gay and fighting. The cops left, and Dahmer said he murdered the boy minutes later.

[poinoup]

This conversation is extremely enlightening. Allegro, I keep meaning to tell you I've learned a fair share from your posts in a few of the news topics. Intelligent, thought out posts. (No blowing smoke)

Brian Warner is a piece of shit who lost himself in his own hype, even past its prime. He flew too high, like Icarus, and now he's falling into the sea, and he's telling himself he's not drowning as the head goes under.

Let's focus on the victims now, and hope this may bring forward more victims of any abuse, no matter where they live.

[WorzelG]

Wes Borland is getting some rash of shit too for not "doing something" after mentioning what he saw in Manson's house.
This is one of those things that goes beyond the music industry and is related to any abusive relationship, if the person involved isn’t in the space where they want out of the relationship you can be pooh poohed and even attacked by the abused party. I’ve read too many stories in just The press in my local area where someone has tried to intervene in an abusive relationship where a woman is being hit by their partner and the abused person they’re trying to help has turned on them! And what can the police do if they refuse to press charges?

[WorzelG]

It’s TOXIC MASCULINITY, and it’s worldwide, in every class and culture.
agree with this 100% and feel totally powerless to do anything about it! I have two boys who are autistic, one is non verbal and the worry of trying to bring them up to do what’s right in this world is terrifying.

[eachpassingphase]

Wes Borland is getting some rash of shit too for not "doing something" after mentioning what he saw in Manson's house.

Yeah, I know we would all like to think of ourselves as being capable of being the hero who would speak up. But if you knew your own reputation, career or physical safety was on the line...would you really have it in you to do the right thing and speak up?

There have been times in my life when I spoke up for people who needed an advocate, and other times when I did nothing like a coward. And I’ve never been in a situation quite as high stakes or public as this one.

So I can’t in good fairness say “oh I would have called Manson out on his shit if I saw something” because I know that there’s a good chance I wouldn’t have. Especially if I was young, had a lot to lose and drugs in my system clouding my judgement like many of the folks involved had.

I’m sure a lot of people who are convinced they would have been bolder than Wes or the female victims. But I can’t make that claim myself. Maybe better people can.


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[Haysey_Draws]

One of the strangest rabbit holes i saw was someone, in great detail, explaining how Manson/NIN back in the 90's was an easy entry into being an abuser and neo-nazi...i closed Twatter at that point and went back to drawing.

I'm just so angry he got away with this shit for YEARS. I've had ex's who adored him because his music helped them through difficult times and would have loved to meet him, but he would have ABSOLUTELY TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THEM, FUCK HIM! FUCK HIM ALL THE WAY TO HELL!

I'd like to think people will look at the Trent stuff and go "...wait nobody has accused him of anything, just some comments from an old book by and serial liar? ...ok" But that's not how the internet works.

[firewlker]

Yeah, I know we would all like to think of ourselves as being capable of being the hero who would speak up. But if you knew your own reputation, career or physical safety was on the line...would you really have it in you to do the right thing and speak up?

There have been times in my life when I spoke up for people who needed an advocate, and other times when I did nothing like a coward. And I’ve never been in a situation quite as high stakes or public as this one.

So I can’t in good fairness say “oh I would have called Manson out on his shit if I saw something” because I know that there’s a good chance I wouldn’t have. Especially if I was young, had a lot to lose and drugs in my system clouding my judgement like many of the folks involved had.

I’m sure a lot of people who are convinced they would have been bolder than Wes or the female victims. But I can’t make that claim myself. Maybe better people can.


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Plot twist: they wouldn't do that because it's not just as simple as they try to imply that is. I've met a lot of people who likes to say something in those lines but at the same time clearly knew they had a problematic friend and no shit was did about it.

Look how long it took to come to the public eye 1% of what was happening in Hollywood when it comes to abuse. (and now on music industry too) It's really good that are more and more people (specially youngsters) not tolerating shit like that but at the same time it's annoying how they think everything is easily solved just like pressing the block option on Twitter.

Wes Borland was the second ex-member (first being Sara Lee Lucas) whose worked with Manson that said something about the allegations and standed with the survivors since Evan's IG post yesterday. On the other side Courtney Love is defending Manson on her private IG account. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[marodi]

Regarding ERW, I would recommand watching Alex Winter's documentary Showbiz Kids, on HBO. Evan is a former child actor and what she says in it is incredibly disturbing --and that was before she named that piece of shit as her abuser.

The whole documentary is a trigger warning. It gave me nightmares.

[benoïde]

Drunk and pissed-off rant //
Fuck me, fuck Warner. I got interested in his latest album but eventually got bored because of his blatant narcissism. I had read about ERW's allegations, which made me uncomfortable to say the least and prevented me from listening to the music.
But all this shit surfacing is yet on another level. If eventually you find yourself in a fucked-up relationship - like he said he was with ERW - the least you can do as a human being is recognizing your faults, talk to the person and hear that she's been hurt. Nobody can fix everything but the least you can do is provide some space for rehabilitation and healing. Which he publicly never did.
And then we read about other women abused, belittled, victims of psychological, sexual, financial extortion.

I'm angry as shit because he did brilliant work with the trilogy (ACSS, MA and HW), it helped me in difficult times in my life and provided me with some level of comfort, expression and self-awareness. Thinking of those times, he should have reinvented himself, but he only got more self-absorbed, worried about his image, doing everything he could to feed the persona he created - only to find himself a shadow of the artist he could have been. And now the walking caricature has betrayed everything he once artistically stood for and that fucking hurts. The funny thing as I'm typing this is that lyrics come to my mind that turn against him, he has now achieved the prowess of being the very subject of what he once stood for. Congrats Brian, you fell on the wrong side of your own art!

He always defended a porous frontier between life and art, now he can be the in-denial-passive-witness of empowered women reconstructing themselves, which is actually a beautiful performance if you want to see it this way.
// drunken pissed-off rant

Having been a victim of abuse myself and having gotten through it thanks to music, philosophy and art in general, I can only wish these women will get the closure they rightly deserve.
And philosophically I studied Nietzsche, Artaud and Jodorowsky, and everything you can read about the porous frontier between life and art only makes sense if you work towards the common good and include a profound sense of healing of the soul. Missing that makes you a psychopath.

[WorzelG]

On the other side Courtney Love is defending Manson on her private IG account. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
why doesn’t that surprise me? I get so annoyed by people talking about how sexist it is to diss Courtney Love. Although to be fair I think if she was a man she might be like Manson and maybe that in itself is telling about the disparity between the sexes. I think women have some kind of genetic coding to bitch about each other and men have some weird self protective code to defend each other. This is my experience anyway

[allegro]

This is one of those things that goes beyond the music industry and is related to any abusive relationship, if the person involved isn’t in the space where they want out of the relationship you can be pooh poohed and even attacked by the abused party. I’ve read too many stories in just The press in my local area where someone has tried to intervene in an abusive relationship where a woman is being hit by their partner and the abused person they’re trying to help has turned on them! And what can the police do if they refuse to press charges?

I was finally helped by people who took that chance and that’s the only way I really got out; they helped me search for an apartment, helped me move; a few were acquaintances of my ex and were right there in front of him, all six-foot-two, 220 pounds of him (with his at least six guns in the apartment) helping me move my stuff out. But for YEARS, one of my best friends said and did NOTHING to help, only later saying she didn’t want to “get involved” because it could “bite her in the ass.”

This is cowardly bullshit. Plain and simple. If the victim isn’t currently able to leave due to various circumstances (there are many related to planning and strategy), the victim generally doesn’t “attack” the person trying to help them; if they do, it’s just a show, in order to appease their abuser.

My former friend simply wanted the benefits she received from my ex.

The reason why victims try to drop charges is due to FEAR; it’s also due to manipulation. Prosecutors know this, which is why they now proceed WITHOUT the victim pressing charges.

[WorzelG]

I was finally helped by people who took that chance and that’s the only way I really got out; they helped me search for an apartment, helped me move; a few were acquaintances of my ex and were right there in front of him, all six-foot-two, 220 pounds of him (with his at least six guns in the apartment) helping me move my stuff out. But for YEARS, one of my best friends said and did NOTHING to help, only later saying she didn’t want to “get involved” because it could “bite her in the ass.”

This is cowardly bullshit. Plain and simple. If the victim isn’t currently able to leave due to various circumstances (there are many related to planning and strategy), the victim generally doesn’t “attack” the person trying to help them; if they do, it’s just a show, in order to appease their abuser.

My former friend simply wanted the benefits she received from my ex.

The reason why victims try to drop charges is due to FEAR; it’s also due to manipulation. Prosecutors know this, which is why they now proceed WITHOUT the victim pressing charges.
Glad you got out of that shit, when I talk about people being attacked it’s been strangers on the street watching someone being hit and trying to intervene

[allegro]

Glad you got out of that shit, when I talk about people being attacked it’s been strangers on the street watching someone being hit and trying to intervene

Even then, call the police and take photos with your phone?

The Dahmer victim comes to mind. Or the literally millions of human trafficking victims. You can “assume” the person he’s hitting is his partner ... is it?

https://sharedhope.org/takeaction/report-trafficking/

https://humantraffickinghotline.org/

Anyway, sorry, I’m done for the day.

[theruiner]

Dude, everyone knew Reznor was dating strippers back then. And three-ways with willing participants may be morally reprehensible to your Priest, but they’re not illegal.

None of this has anything to do with the abuse of which Brian Warner is accused.

Fucking THIS.

What does Trent dating strippers or having (I am assuming) consensual three-ways have to do with anything?

[firewlker]

https://pitchfork.com/news/trent-reznor-denounces-marilyn-manson-in-new-statement/?utm_brand=p4k&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter
reznor released a statement to pitchfork

I have been vocal over the years about my dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago. As I said at the time, the passage from Manson’s memoir is a complete fabrication. I was infuriated and offended back when it came out and remain so today.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Fucking THIS.

What does Trent dating strippers or having (I am assuming) consensual three-ways have to do with anything?


Nobody said it had to do with anything. I have dated a couple of strippers as well and am friends with several girls who are in that line of work. If Trent liked strippers, good for him. My point was Trent was pretty involved in the sex, drugs and rock n roll lifestyle, so you know someone is going to toss his name in the ring (like yesterday) just due to his association w Manson and Twiggy and all the partying that went on back then. Mike Patton from day 1 said he never would touch drugs and would never go near groupies. Trent on the other hand dove headfirst into that scene. And now because several of his friends have gotten popped (Manson, Twiggy, Maynard doesnt have the best rep) its probably only a matter of time before his name gets thrown in the ring just due to guilt by association. Like I stated earlier. I dont think he did anything wrong.....but someone is going to try to drag him into this one way or the other (even if its just to get his response to what happened to Manson) due to past associations



For the record here is the Howard Stern clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSvoOdd4tI



Also as for Wes......Limp Bizkit doesn't have the best reputation for the way they treated women. I was at a Faith No More show back in the day where Limp Bizkit opened and were getting booed mercilessly and Fred Durst spent the entire show calling the crowd 'faggots' and asking for the girls to take their tops off. Wes didn't seem too upset with Fred

[MrLobster]

https://pitchfork.com/news/trent-reznor-denounces-marilyn-manson-in-new-statement/?utm_brand=p4k&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter

That's the soothing balm we were looking for...

[Sutekh]

On the other side Courtney Love is defending Manson on her private IG account. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also Dita's sister liked Manson's statement/denial on IG. Um?

[Tom]

https://pitchfork.com/news/trent-reznor-denounces-marilyn-manson-in-new-statement/?utm_brand=p4k&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter
reznor released a statement to pitchfork

It's a shame this got dragged up again and he felt the need to make a statement. The person who first brought this up on Twitter hasn't acknowledged any of the various attempts to highlight the broader context and TR's numerous responses from 20+ years ago. This leaves me with the impression that, rather than just being a bit lazy, they were acting in bad faith from the outset.

[eachpassingphase]

https://pitchfork.com/news/trent-reznor-denounces-marilyn-manson-in-new-statement/?utm_brand=p4k&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter
reznor released a statement to pitchfork

Pitchfork: Maybe not still cunts.

[eachpassingphase]

It's a shame this got dragged up again and he felt the need to make a statement. The person who first brought this up on Twitter hasn't acknowledged any of the various attempts to highlight the broader context and TR's numerous responses of 20+ years ago. This leaves me with the impression that, rather than just being a bit lazy, they were acting in bad faith from the outset.

She won't say shit to correct the statement or she will dig her heels in. Because that's how people get clicks on twitter.

Absolutely hate that hellscape.

[poinoup]

That Pitchfork picture on the article pretty much sums them up these days. One looks healthy, mature, and relaxed in his life. The other one is still wearing excessive makeup and living on past glory. Warner's blank stare can't be hidden by layers of concealer and eye shadow.

I feel like this is going to be like Ryan Adams. Deny, attempt an "apology", and then try to put out new music that shows the new you. "The first folk album from the artist formerly known as MM."

[ickyvicky]

It's scary though Manson's IG followers hasn't dramatically decreased, it's still at 3.6M since Monday!

[ton]

The passages from that book make no sense. It seems like Manson was so far detached from reality.

[Magnetic]

That's the soothing balm we were looking for...

I’m glad he did put out a statement. I don’t think he had to, but I’m glad he confronted it (again) rather than remaining silent.

i fucking hate Manson. I’ve never been a fan, and I always just found him to be some disgusting creepoid. I remember people trying to compare Mason to Alice Cooper, but there’s no similarity. Alice Cooper got sober and helped others. Manson has always been the same sack of shit, digging deeper into his persona of being fucked up and vile.

[eachpassingphase]

It's scary though Manson's IG followers hasn't dramatically decreased, it's still at 3.6M since Monday!

I’m fairly certain he buys followers on Insta. A lot of artists do, it’s fairly common.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jinsai]

The passages from that book make no sense. It seems like Manson was so far detached from reality.

That's the thing, the thoughts don't even connect. Anyone who has ever talked to somebody completely on the verge of passing out after too much cocaine might be familiar with how he sounds there, but it's just insane. He's calling her this "fish woman,' using adjectives that don't even really explain things... I'm just going to stop there, and maybe commenting on this in general. I've probably said how I feel about it all, and I feel like I'll feel better if I just put it out of mind for a while.

[allegro]

I remember people trying to compare Mason to Alice Cooper, but there’s no similarity. Alice Cooper got sober and helped others.

Vince (Alice Cooper) was raised by a minister, is fairly religious, was never abusive to anyone, and is actually talented.


He's calling her this "fish woman,'
He reduces her to a creature, something sub-human. He has no respect for her. She likely never existed, is a work of fiction, a story he thought makes him the Evil Lord Byron and would bolster his image as someone who was begat from the evil done to him; he’s basically an incel on drugs. He’s taking his entire shitty teenage years of rejection out on every woman possible. He now exists to exact his revenge. That’s what incels do.

[paul_is_dead]

For the record here is the Howard Stern clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSvoOdd4tI

I thoroughly dislike Howard Stern. He's an ass.

[Magnetic]

Howard Stern has always been a worthless bottom-feeder.

[allegro]

Howard had helped rescue over a thousand stray animals (https://www.today.com/pets/beth-stern-howard-stern-have-fostered-almost-900-cats-t147829), though. Like, his homes have wings filled with foster cats. There’s a huge adoption center named after their late dog (https://www.animalleague.org/ny-services/biancas-furry-friends-feline-adoption-center/) (Howard has a tattoo with her name, plus a tattoo of their late cat, Apple (https://www.instagram.com/p/CKe9kizh5QA/?igshid=22rze2aks4nt)).

That other thing is his job. I sincerely doubt that Howard Stern was at a strip club in ‘93. Howard was married with kids in ‘93; He sits at home painting watercolors and hanging out with his wife and the cats. Howard is a comedian so he made his shit up. He also admits that he used to be an awful selfish prick.

Here’s a really good interview with Howard (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/howard-stern-interview-new-book-836979/) that came out around when he released his last book (which was really good).

[Magnetic]

Ok fine.
That other thing that's his job???
At that point it's slander, as there are people who aren't his fans, who aren't in on the "joke" that's total bullshit. It isn't cool. And I'm sorry, he shouldn't profit off slander.

So he might be a decent human being to animals, but there's a level of accountability. He profits off the lies and bullshit. He's still culpable.
In his private life, he's saint francis, but professionally he degrades people and tarnishes their reputations. He makes his fortune off spreading lies.

He's still a bottom feeder in my book. Maybe his charity towards animals is his mea culpa, I dunno. He's still a dick.

[sonic_discord]

Yeah, making fun of someone's depression, social anxiety, and addiction problems (while mockingly saying "waaah") makes him a supremely insensitive asshole, in my opinion.

[allegro]

Ok fine.
That other thing that's his job???
At that point it's slander, as there are people who aren't his fans, who aren't in on the "joke" that's total bullshit. It isn't cool. And I'm sorry, he shouldn't profit off slander.

So he might be a decent human being to animals, but there's a level of accountability. He profits off the lies and bullshit. He's still culpable.
In his private life, he's saint francis, but professionally he degrades people and tarnishes their reputations. He makes his fortune off spreading lies.

He's still a bottom feeder in my book. Maybe his charity towards animals is his mea culpa, I dunno. He's still a dick.

Dude, that video was posted on YouTube 11 years ago. Artie, the other guy talking, stopped working at the show in 2009. Howard started going to psychotherapy since then, after having two cancer scares. He hasn’t been “that guy” on his show in many years. And none of what was said in that clip was lies, either, other than Howard and the unlikely lap dance. Howard poked fun of drug abuse, not depression. But, if you read the above interview, he says many years of psychotherapy has made him a different guy, and people now complain that his show is boring. He addresses #MeToo stuff in the interview.

[poinoup]

Love, hate, or indifference, I will say that Stern can be an excellent interviewer. He can dig in and get things that other interviewers dream of. I understand the loathing. Is this too much Howard talk? Or is this getting a wee off topic?

[allegro]

Love, hate, or indifference, I will say that Stern can be an excellent interviewer. He can dig in and get things that other interviewers dream of. I understand the loathing. Is this too much Howard talk? Or is this getting a wee off topic?

I was just going to say this same thing. The topic keeps veering off, to Trent Reznor, over and over again, even if it’s some dumb fucking Stern bit from 11 years ago in this thread, that’s still totally off-topic. That clip topic is drift. Reznor used to date strippers and do drugs but then Howard says Reznor is a hermit? Wtf does this have to do with “Sexual Asshattery in the News?” Other than one guy in this thread who keeps trying to change the subject from Manson to Reznor and strippers? Which isn’t sexual asshattery.

Stern, in this thread, maybe he was a sexual asshat for throwing bologna at porn star’s asses, but he wasn’t abusing people in his studio without their consent and that Howard Stern died many years ago. Yes, it was reprehensible. Yes, he should be ashamed of it, and he is. And he’s changed and is still going to therapy.

[benoïde]

I sobered up.
Further thoughts : I don't really know what 'cancel culture' is, but as an artist, most of the power you have is what your audience gives you back in response to your art. That power can easily be taken back, as it should when you behave like an abusive power-hungry shithole. Drowning in the depths of irrelevancy is probably Manson's biggest fear.

[icklekitty]

Drowning in the depths of irrelevancy is probably Manson's biggest fear. He's a narcissist by numbers. As someone that's been at the hands of one, I'm academically curious as to why it didn't manifest with Rose and Dita (who've both come forward to say that despite not experiencing the same they support ERW)

[Lastentrance]

He's a narcissist by numbers. As someone that's been at the hands of one, I'm academically curious as to why it didn't manifest with Rose and Dita (who've both come forward to say that despite not experiencing the same they support ERW)

The only thing I can put it down to were Rose and Dita were a similar age to Manson. It was after Dita he pursued ERW, and a long line of women he was trying to make Dita. Power, control, utter lack of respect for his juniors.

[october_midnight]

Cops were at his house according to TMZ last night after a friend couldn't get a hold of him. Eventually his agent or someone said he was fine but just didn't want to come outside, blah blah blah.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Trent and Manson reuniting and performing together in 2000 after the numerous allegations Manson made in his autobiography about Trent only a few years prior was something that never made any sense to me. The sexual assault on the drunk girl wasn't the only extreme allegation he made in that book; there was another anecdote about an alleged pregnancy or something. When TR made that remark in a 2011 interview about being an adult and wearing suits and being open to anything regarding a reunion with Manson, it was a real head-scratcher for me. If someone was accusing me of sexual assault or impregnating someone and it was complete bullshit, I wouldn't want to ever even entertain the notion of associating with that person again..

Not saying anything Manson has claimed in his book or in the press about TR is in any way true. It just strikes me as super weird that there would be any association or openness to association on Trent's part if someone had made some terrible accusations in print about him like that..

[onthewall2983]

Money (or the potential thereof) makes men do funny things.

[thelastdisciple]

It just strikes me as super weird that there would be any association or openness to association on Trent's part if someone had made some terrible accusations in print about him like that..
He may have said that hinging on the idea that Manson would improve somewhere down the road, if he cleaned his act up maybe there was a small chance.

As far as the 2000 gig and Starfuckers Inc. - Perhaps he was roped into it because of management and his label?

Sorry for further drift.

[Magtig]

The only thing I can put it down to were Rose and Dita were a similar age to Manson. It was after Dita he pursued ERW, and a long line of women he was trying to make Dita. Power, control, utter lack of respect for his juniors.This is likely a factor. Another one might be that given Dita's statement (that they broke up in part due to infidelity), he was probably getting his abusive "needs" fulfilled elsewhere. When she left, he got lazy and brought them home.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

[MrLobster]

As far as the 2000 gig and Starfuckers Inc. - Perhaps he was roped into it because of management and his label?

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think the video and show were actually trolling the abusive shitforbrains. "Hey, yeah, come on over, it'll be fun... I'll be smashing your face ironically... see, here's mine too."

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

I think its been well documented by now that spring/summer 2000 were rock bottom for Trent as far as his addiction goes.....He was probably barely coherent for any of the reunion stuff that happened between him and Manson

[sweeterthan]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser and i’m trying to not lose my mind on them. some where in the replies someone says “he told on himself with pretty hate machine”. what?

https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1357368631752069121?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[firewlker]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser and i’m trying to not lose my mind on them. some where in the replies someone says “he told on himself with pretty hate machine”. what?

https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1357368631752069121?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, probably was that line from That's What I Get:

How can you turn me into this?
After you just taught me how to kiss you
I told you I'd never say goodbye
Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry



/s

I'm gonna see how long is gonna get until 'Big Man With a Gun' enters the room.

[tony.parente]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser and i’m trying to not lose my mind on them. some where in the replies someone says “he told on himself with pretty hate machine”. what?

https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1357368631752069121?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the land of the blue checks fuck = rape. Clearly. Sex with groupies 100% means rape. All the time.

[allegro]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser

Common legal tactic, redirecting the focus of the narrative.

[MrLobster]

I'm gonna see how long is gonna get until 'Big Man With a Gun' enters the room.

...and there are still a whole bunch of people who are of the opinion that 'Closer' is about rape.

[thefragile_jake]

Honestly I think we need to stop giving this individual so much attention. Their arms are more than likely sore from having to reach so hard with that post.

[WorzelG]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser and i’m trying to not lose my mind on them. some where in the replies someone says “he told on himself with pretty hate machine”. what?

https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1357368631752069121?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That Sady Doyle has a weird relationship with Trent, he was the one who wrote that article about We’re in this Together being the last great love song. But I remember checking out his earlier tweets which are incredibly negative on him, kind of holding him responsible for breaking Tori Amos’ heart, kind of love-hate-love! I’d search them out only I can’t really bear to read any more of this shit. Also if he’s trying to accuse him of being culpable too, why bring up an article where he says Manson fucks groupies? He’s not talking about himself

[eachpassingphase]

the twitter person is still trying to push that reznor is an abuser and i’m trying to not lose my mind on them. some where in the replies someone says “he told on himself with pretty hate machine”. what?

https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1357368631752069121?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ll say the same thing I said in the Reddit thread about this -
It was reasonable for her to ask about the first accusation.
It was reasonable for Trent to respond.
Now that’s been done, and it’s no longer a reasonable discussion.

So the fact that she is still bringing this up just tells me she wants to be pissed off at Trent for whatever reason. There’s nothing shocking, illegal or even news worthy about a rock star wanting to have sex with groupies and even being sort of gross about it. Especially one who has since grown up and doesn’t behave that way anymore.

There’s an argument to be had for the larger way that every man in music tends to contribute to rape culture, but that’s not the conversation she’s having on Twitter. It’s just her deciding to dig her heels in about Trent specifically.

I’m sure Trent has a very capable PR person advising him, so maybe I’m wrong on this. But in my opinion fans need to not interact with her further on this subject.

Even defending him will only encourage her and fan the flames. I feel like it would be harmful to Trent, and we have every reason to believe the best about him at this point.

I get wanting to argue with her, but if you feel the need to defend Trent, the best defense is to let this go for now.

[allegro]

Tori Amos’
Oh, God, those people.


let this go
FUCK YES. I was on a board with these women, they’re not living in a real world, they live in fantasy fiction, they’re groupies, themselves, angry and delusional ones, and nothing changes their minds, they look for all opportunities to be evil.

RUN AWAY. Do not engage with her or the others, do not link it here and attract them. Nothing will come from her baseless connect-the-dots.

[Haysey_Draws]

That Sady Doyle has a weird relationship with Trent, she was the one who wrote that article about We’re in this Together being the last great love song. But I remember checking out her earlier tweets which are incredibly negative on him, kind of holding him responsible for breaking Tori Amos’ heart, kind of love-hate-love! I’d search them out only I can’t really bear to read any more of this shit

If i'd to hazard a guess i'd say she's saying what's getting her the most clicks. That's all what soical media is now, getting those likes, and she sees an opportunity. As far as i'm concerned, if there's no victim coming forward, or someone actually verifying the claim in the book, then i'm ignoring it. It's just muddying the water for what an actual abuser has done and continues to do!

[sweeterthan]

i agree with all of you. but it’s the intentional misrepresentation by a checkmark person that bothers me and prompted me to respond. one girl told me there are “rumors” about reznor. she couldn’t point me to one tho.

doyle hasn’t responded to any of my tweets so they can fuck off. it’s definitely about clicks.


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[allegro]

There are always rumors, they’re rock stars.

Jimmy Page allegedly had a suitcase full of whips?

Led Zeppelin Mud Shark?

Ozzy snorted a line of ants?

(Edit: ok, a few of these may actually be true)

[tony.parente]

Yo I didn't take Phoebe Bridgers as a MM fan. Then again she fits the "blonde girl who looks (and probably is) 16" preference.

https://twitter.com/phoebe_bridgers/status/1357370603079098374?s=20 (https://twitter.com/phoebe_bridgers/status/1357370603079098374?s=20)

"TW: I went to Marilyn Manson’s house when I was a teenager with some friends. I was a big fan. He referred to a room in his house as the “r*pe room”, I thought it was just his horrible frat boy sense of humor. I stopped being a fan. I stand with everyone who came forward."

[eachpassingphase]

Yo I didn't take Phoebe Bridgers as a MM fan. Then again she fits the "blonde girl who looks (and probably is) 16" preference.

https://twitter.com/phoebe_bridgers/status/1357370603079098374?s=20

Phoebe is a huge production nerd and adores NIN so I’m not surprised she likes MM too.


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[Fadeout54321]

There is this article from today (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/04/trent-reznor-sexual-assault-story-marilyn-manson-memoir-fabrication) in The Guardian where Trent is quoted. Excerpt from the link is below. I am trying to figure out where this quote is actually coming from because there seems to be no source mentioned. The way it is written in the article it seems to come from Trent in the last day or two, but I can't be sure. If this has already been posted my apologies, I looked and didn't see anything.

In the wake of the allegations, a passage from Manson’s 1998 autobiography The Long Hard Road Out of Hell began circulating online, in which Manson claims that he and Reznor sexually assaulted a heavily intoxicated woman. Reznor has responded, saying:

"I have been vocal over the years about my dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago. As I said at the time, the passage from Manson’s memoir is a complete fabrication. I was infuriated and offended back when it came out and remain so today.

[botley]

There is this article from today (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/04/trent-reznor-sexual-assault-story-marilyn-manson-memoir-fabrication) in The Guardian where Trent is quoted. Excerpt from the link is below. I am trying to figure out where this quote is actually coming from because there seems to be no source mentioned. The way it is written in the article it seems to come from Trent in the last day or two, but I can't be sure. If this has already been posted my apologies, I looked and didn't see anything.

Take a look a bit earlier in this thread. It was provided directly to Pitchfork yesterday, and appeared there first.

[richardp]

My girlfriend reads some Gossip Blog called Oh No They Didn't and showed me all of these massively ill-informed commenters who clearly don't really have any fundamental knowledge of NIN other than they were a rock band in the 90s talking mad shit on Trent. It's crazy. There seem to be a couple of people in there that are like "no you can trust Trent when he says he hates Manson and that that shit didn't actually happen", buts it's all followed by "HE'S A SHORT ANGRY WHITE MAN AND I BELIEVE TRENT IS FUCKED UP".

Like goooooooddammit. I'm not trying to involve myself in an exhausting argument about Cancel Culture but like... FIRST, this shit is about Manson. Why on earth are we trying to make this about Trent Reznor now. SECONDLY, there are definitely people who deserve a culture cancel, and Manson is one of them, and has been needing it for a while (regardless of musical output). But when people start salivating to "expose" or cancel other people just for simply being in someone's orbit, that's when the whole thing gets blurry and sloppy for me. We all know and believe Trent's statement to be true, because we all KNOW the band and it's history. But everyone else online seemingly clamoring at yet another celebrity to cancel, it just comes across as so misguided and cringeworthy to me. It literally takes all of 30 seconds to look online and see how many instances there are not only of Trent stating Manson was a terrible person yada yada yada, but of the actual legitimacy of Manson's book. And I'm even pretty sure Strauss has come out and flat out said "yeah most of it is embellished or made up". It's just dumb to me. Like, you can really tell who out there is genuine about standing up for victims and holding these celebrities/musicians accountable, vs. the people who are just out to hop on a band wagon for social clout.

[Jinsai]

Cancel Culture isn't a thing, it's a stupid saying. I'll choose to not buy shit made by someone or involving someone if I don't like them. I had to deal with Gillian Anderson as a Blockbuster employee, and after that experience, I never watched an episode of X-files or ever wanted to deal with her stuff again, because she's a repulsive awful person and I have choices in my life. So yeah, I guess I "cancelled" her or whatever, but that's an option we all have.

Where was all this "cancel culture" outrage when The Dixie Chicks got boycotted for saying they didn't like Bush?

[botley]

I guess I... can't find a single fuck to give about what the comments on a celebrity gossip blog say? If they wanna vent by trashing our favourite rock star for associating with someone 20+ years ago who turns out to perhaps be a serial rapist, more power to them. The descriptions of what the women are alleging Warner did to them are absolutely enraging and so... maybe the rage is flying indiscriminately.

That said, rape culture is at play here too: TR has associated with some unsavoury people in his time, and Manson is likely the worst of all, but if there's truth to some of the stories about what was going on during those days (not necessarily the specifics given in Manson's book, but other sordid backstage behaviour possibly on the borderline), it's not like people today are going to put that into the 'boys will be boys' context anymore... AND FRANKLY, THAT'S GREAT. It should be scrutinized. That's all the critic on Twitter is getting at from what I can see, it's not like they have a hate on for only TR in particular, just his part of the toxic edifice.

TR knew what might have been happening when it came to Warner and other people around him all those years ago; he wasn't drunk 24/7 even in those days... he had to have considered maybe there was a price to pay somewhere down the road for pulling this pencil-necked nerd out of Florida and letting him loose on the world. If that means people are angry at him for whatever part he played enabling bad things, then he's gotta wear that.

[sweeterthan]

more power to them? sorry i don’t follow. the twitter person is accusing reznor of being the same abuser/rapist as manson. their sources are mid 90s manson and mid 90s courtney love. it’s fucking dumb.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I had to deal with Gillian Anderson as a Blockbuster employee, and after that experience, I never watched an episode of X-files or ever wanted to deal with her stuff again, because she's a repulsive awful person and I have choices in my life.

lol huh..?

Curious to hear what your experience entailed. I've met her on numerous occasions -- at charity events for animal rights, women's rights, children's rights -- and she was one of the nicest, most down-to-earth public figures I've probably ever met in my life. Right up there with Duchovny, who is also super chill..

[richardp]

Cancel Culture isn't a thing, it's a stupid saying. I'll choose to not buy shit made by someone or involving someone if I don't like them. I had to deal with Gillian Anderson as a Blockbuster employee, and after that experience, I never watched an episode of X-files or ever wanted to deal with her stuff again, because she's a repulsive awful person and I have choices in my life. So yeah, I guess I "cancelled" her or whatever, but that's an option we all have.

Where was all this "cancel culture" outrage when The Dixie Chicks got boycotted for saying they didn't like Bush?

Dude it's definitely a thing, whether you see it or not. There's this tattoo artist that I used to work with at a different job, and when JK Rowling had the Trans-Comments scandal, literally WITHIN AN HOUR of that news breaking, she was offering people free cover ups for Harry Potter tattoos, and there were quite a few who took her up on that offer. The shit is stupid as fuck, but there IS a cancel culture out there. People pick and choose what they want to like and when they don't like something, sadly, nowadays people seem to look for that instant justification for them not liking said thing. At least that what it seems like to me.

[botley]

more power to them? sorry i don’t follow. the twitter person is accusing reznor of being the same abuser/rapist as manson. their sources are mid 90s manson and mid 90s courtney love. it’s fucking dumb.
Doyle wrote that they want Reznor to be held accountable for his part in enabling Manson, whatever it may be. That part I agree with. I don't think enablers should face anything like consequences as bad as abusers should, but they both need accountability.


There's this tattoo artist that I used to work with at a different job, and when JK Rowling had the Trans-Comments scandal, literally WITHIN AN HOUR of that news breaking, she was offering people free cover ups for Harry Potter tattoos, and there were quite a few who took her up on that offer. The shit is stupid as fuck, but there IS a cancel culture out there. People pick and choose what they want to like and when they don't like something, sadly, nowadays people seem to look for that instant justification for them not liking said thing. At least that what it seems like to me.
Or maybe transphobic comments are genuinely abhorrent and people wanted not to have a permanent fucking reminder of that on themselves. Is this so hard to understand?

[sweeterthan]

Doyle wrote that they want Reznor to be held accountable for his part in enabling Manson, whatever it may be. That part I agree with.

enabling manson how? he parted ways with him a long time ago, citing how fucked up he is. it affected manson’s musical career for sure. what else should reznor have done? how would you hold reznor accountable? why is manson abusing ERW and others over the last 10 years reznor’s fault? is anyone mad at american gods? they hired him last year. are they accountable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegate]

enabling manson how? he parted ways with him a long time ago, citing how fucked up he is. it affected manson’s musical career for sure. what else should reznor have done? how would you hold reznor accountable? why is manson abusing ERW and others over the last 10 years reznor’s fault? is anyone mad at american gods? they hired him last year. are they accountable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
time travel.

[botley]

enabling manson how? he parted ways with him a long time ago, citing how fucked up he is. it affected manson’s musical career for sure. what else should reznor have done? how would you hold reznor accountable?
He didn't boot him off Nothing. He kept cashing the checks for their collaborations. Then he hired him to direct "Starfuckers". He brought him back out on his stage in 2000, and included it on his DVD. All of that was less than 25 years ago.


why is manson abusing ERW and others over the last 10 years reznor’s fault?
Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it was his fault. He made a bad choice to work with Warner, and an even worse choice giving him the high profile he did in the misguided cause of rebellion, but that's not a direct line to "at fault for crimes".


is anyone mad at american gods? they hired him last year. are they accountable?
Good questions.

[richardp]

Or maybe transphobic comments are genuinely abhorrent and people wanted not to have a permanent fucking reminder of that on themselves. Is this so hard to understand?

I guess I just don't understand how the shitty things the lady who wrote those books instantly cancels out everything you've ever felt about the series. Cool the lady who wrote it sucks, but having the fucking Deathly Hollows symbol on your arm isn't going to say "I support transphobia". Like, I get not wanting a Manson tattoo or wanting to cover that up now, but there is a pretty big different between JK Rowling just spouting some massively misinformed transphobic shit and Manson physically torturing people. Not that anyone is actually comparing it, but I guess my point is those same people on my facebook who were so quick to cover up a Harry Potter tattoo haven't said shit other than "well duh Manson was a shithead" and posting memes about him. Not one single "Yo, I'll cover up your Manson tattoos for free" post.

So... is that people not wanting to have a permanent reminder, or, again, people just picking and choosing what they want to be outraged about.

[tony.parente]

The Hard Times out here killing it as usual. (https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-has-spine-removed-to-bend-over-backward-defending-marilyn-manson/)

[sweeterthan]

All of that was less than 25 years ago. 21 years ago.



Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it was his fault. He made a bad choice to work with Warner, and an even worse choice giving him the high profile he did in the misguided cause of rebellion, but that's not a direct line to "at fault for crimes". you are asking for accountability. that usually means legal justice or social justice.



Good questions.
they are editing him out of the show. is that enough?

as for cancel culture, I get it but I think it depends on the circumstance. Some people deserve it. I do not believe Reznor does but I do think so about Manson. I've never like him. Nothing about him is appealing to me. I've heard countless things about Reznor and there's tons of good and noble shit in there.

[ltrandazzo]

Admittedly, the timeline TR describes is more generous. Yes, MSG for Starfuckers and the video were in 2000, so 21, not 25 years. Even then, I remember the rockiness of their relationship. Music journalism in general has always been hard to navigate because I remember reading weird interviews with some of my favorite bands in the 90s/00s and they would say just the absolute goofiest shit. It's hard to take much of it seriously because it was always hard to tell what was theater and what was them being authentic because you could run into a misquote or embellishment from a writer and the musician chalks it up to "unintentional edginess" or whatever.

Anyway, that's probably beside the point. If you go look at Manson's IG page, Trent's IG page is listed as a follower along with Saul Williams. Is that an endorsement? Does it give weird credence to the quote from '17 that Manson gave about reconciliation? There are tons of rabbit holes to fall into and it's hard to find the truth vs. the fiction.

TR and Brian have had a love/hate relationship for a long time. Even though I consider myself a big fan of his, I don't hold Trent up as a paragon of any type of virtue because the man is flawed just like the rest of us. He's had absolutely horrible experiences, both self-inflicted and not that have shaped him into the person he is today. Everything that he says, even when it's contradictory is ultimately his truth. Maybe the Starfuckers collab was born more out of some weird necessity to grab a headline and get attention, especially since The Fragile was seen by the music industry as a giant flop. Does the two of them teaming up for that mean that they personally reconciled? Who fucking knows?

At the end of the day, Trent knows what his truth is along with anyone else he might have wronged in any way possible. I reserve this attitude in the wake of Me Too with him which is what I've had to apply to a lot of creative folks that I consider or considered myself a fan of - I will always appreciate the work and what it did in that moment. I do not know this person, so if anything comes out about them that would make me view them as less than, then I will do so believing their accusers and letting the facts bear themselves out. Everything else is speculation at this point. Trent having a fuzzy timeline of events does not make him a liar nor does it give credence to what this blue-checked writer on Twitter is saying. What I do know is that several women have come out and given GREAT detail on what Brian Warner put them through and I believe them. If anyone or multiple people come forward to do the same with Trent, I will believe them too. But until then, this is where we are.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Are we sure this twitter person slandering Trent isn't Andrea urban Fox crawling out of her sewer????

[Jinsai]

lol huh..?

Curious to hear what your experience entailed. I've met her on numerous occasions -- at charity events for animal rights, women's rights, children's rights -- and she was one of the nicest, most down-to-earth public figures I've probably ever met in my life. Right up there with Duchovny, who is also super chill..

EDIT: Nevermind, there's no good reason for me to explain it.

[eachpassingphase]

OTEP dropped some thoughts today.

https://www.facebook.com/otepofficial/posts/10165414177735131https://www.facebook.com/otepofficial/posts/10165414177735131

"Lyndsay used to call our house In the early hours & I was told she hysterical bcz he was on another drug binge, threatening her life, throwing knives at her that stuck in the wall & verbally assaulting her. We offered many times to have her come to mine bcz he would NEVER come face ME with that bullshit (believe it) but sadly she wouldn't leave him. So, my ex would be calm and talk her down until Manson realized she was on the phone and he whoa'd down."

[allegro]

Are we sure this twitter person slandering Trent isn't Andrea urban Fox crawling out of her sewer????
Lol ugh you know that’s supposedly his ex-girlfriend.

[allegro]

EDIT: Nevermind, there's no good reason for me to explain it.

SHE didn’t know the movie but was pissed that you didn’t? I had to Google it, it’s from 1953. Wtf.


OTEP dropped some thoughts today.

https://www.facebook.com/otepofficial/posts/10165414177735131https://www.facebook.com/otepofficial/posts/10165414177735131

"Lyndsay used to call our house In the early hours & I was told she hysterical bcz he was on another drug binge, threatening her life, throwing knives at her that stuck in the wall & verbally assaulting her. We offered many times to have her come to mine bcz he would NEVER come face ME with that bullshit (believe it) but sadly she wouldn't leave him. So, my ex would be calm and talk her down until Manson realized she was on the phone and he whoa'd down."

This confirms my suspicion: He’s afraid of certain women.

Heads-up to all women around him in the future, for any reason: Make him afraid of you.

Although, having been an ex- trophy wife whose husband directed nearly everything I wore, and when I didn’t he’d get really upset: Have any of us ever seen Rose McGowan wear a horridly ugly mostly-naked trophy dress to any soirée ever again?


As far as analyzing the TR / MM timeline: TR said he expressed his “dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago.”

The specificity of “as a person” appears to exclude “as an artist” for a reason.

[Jinsai]

SHE didn’t know the movie but was pissed that you didn’t? I had to Google it, it’s from 1953. Wtf.

Yeah, and then she said in a shitty voice "I don't know where you went to high school, but Julius Ceaser is a play by William Shakespeare." Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm sure she's adorable with puppies too.

Anyway, I digress.

[botley]

As far as analyzing the TR / MM timeline: TR said he expressed his “dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago.”

The specificity of “as a person” appears to exclude “as an artist” for a reason.
Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.

[Jinsai]

Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.
I guess
Maybe it's just "and then I started getting back into drugs and let an abusive person back into my life while his world was stalling out." I guess that would be a little more 'complicated' but, it's something I understand and probably not the cleanest way to say "fuck off!!!!!!"

[allegro]

Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.

Yeah, but business is business. Money is money. Some of that may have been dictated by the label and management, or artistic shit. Or believing in Manson’s shit. TR was sucked into it, too.

But what TR seemed to imply is that he cut personal ties with him; he ain’t hanging out with him.

I agree that in a perfect world you ain’t making money from him, either. But MM was on his label. Kinda hard to remove himself from that.

You’re right in this, as hard as it is hard to accept. Hindsight is 20/20.

NIN had a BDSM attraction, but it also attracted a bunch of stupid macho sadistic assholes who showed up at shows. It’s why I wouldn’t go to any TDS shows. I was living that shit, I didn’t need to pay for it as entertainment. The whole marketing schtick was what begat Manson.

You’re right, it’s like admitting to being a part of white culture. Sure, we can say “oh, no, I believe in civil rights, blah blah blah.” But, like it or not, you contributed to the suppression of black people. And this is the same way; it’s all interconnected and the way to stop it is to see it, seeeeeeee it, admit it, and say I’m not going to be a part of that, instead of denying it and saying it ain’t me, no it ain’t me.

[allegro]

Yeah, and then she said in a shitty voice "I don't know where you went to high school, but Julius Ceaser is a play by William Shakespeare." Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm sure she's adorable with puppies too.

Anyway, I digress.
Omg, WTF.

Inexcusable.

Did you have your DEGREE IN ENGLISH LITERATURE by this point?

(Duchovny has his, plus a MASTERS in English Lit. Although, didn’t he end up being a ... ahem ... sex addict?)

[Jinsai]

Did you have your DEGREE IN ENGLISH LITERATURE by this point?

(Duchovny has his, plus a MASTERS in English Lit. Although, didn’t he end up being a ... ahem ... sex addict?)

no I’m pretty sure at that point I was studying for it and unsure what to declare. Duchovny came in a few times and seemed like a normal guy. A ton of celebs did. Some were a pain, but most weren’t. She was the worst.

but I digress.

[allegro]

I think it’s pretty fair to judge people by how they treat workers.

How she treated you is unacceptable.

[Wretchedest]

Man I derailed like a page or two of the tool thread in 2019 when I said that a story from my friend about maynard being cruel with concert security basically ruined the band for me.

With Manson... It seems like another case of "everyone knew and no one did anything" right now. It seems like even pretty much regular people knew, like I had a friend who he tried to pick up when she was just 16, and she been telling that story for like 20 years now... Always frustrating to see, no one intervening. The stuff with Evan Rachel Wood is just... So fucking weird and disturbing. Here's hoping in the future this shit gets stopped before it gets out of hand

[WorzelG]

Its so obnoxius that Perez Hilton is tweeted / instagramming stuff about the Manson allegations when he drew 'whore' and 'ho' on a picture of Evan Rachel Wood at the time she was dating him! Absolute toxic masculinity on display there - and again because the media is reporting it, they get away with any of their culpability in all of this. All the magazines with interviews where they saw him as hilarious, will there be any comeback from that?

[Haysey_Draws]

Its so obnoxius that Perez Hilton is tweeted / instagramming stuff about the Manson allegations when he drew 'whore' and 'ho' on a picture of Evan Rachel Wood at the time she was dating him! Absolute toxic masculinity on display there - and again because the media is reporting it, they get away with any of their culpability in all of this. All the magazines with interviews where they saw him as hilarious, will there be any comeback from that?

Wait...Perez Hilton is still a thing?! And they have a following?!

[WorzelG]

Wait...Perez Hilton is still a thing?! And they have a following?!
It would seem so!

[benoïde]

ERW’s IG posts are documenting all this.

On another point, here's an article I found of some interest in the New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-marilyn-manson-reckoning).

excerpt : "Thankfully, more contemporary artists are working in good faith to suggest a different way forward, exploding lingering norms and defying notions of what constitutes authenticity or rebellion. The pop producer and performer SOPHIE, an early progenitor of hyper-pop (SOPHIE died tragically last weekend, at age thirty-four), is a wonderful example of generous, nutritive transgression; so is Anohni , once of the band Antony and the Johnsons, who makes stunning, spectral electro-pop that’s fundamentally at odds with old ideas. Orville Peck, Lil Nas X (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/lil-nas-x-is-the-sound-of-the-internet-somehow), Kim Petras, Harry Styles (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/harry-styles-sexuality-labels-gender-norms)—their success proves that singularity and disobedience no longer need to be tied to destruction."

[WorzelG]

There’s another Instagram poster anniejanaabrams who’s put up some disturbing stuff including voice recordings and screenshots. Seems like he was sent over the edge by the Metal Hammer interview which he calls a hatchet job and was threatening to kill himself to this woman. Hmm wouldn’t be a great loss

[Sutekh]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes

[WorzelG]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes
I've noticed that the younger generations in my family don't drink alcohol anywhere near as much as we do! Which is great, even my brother doesn't as he is 9 years younger than me and a different generation almost and its not like he didn't have terrible examples set by his older sisters at times! (well me specifically!). With the pandemic though and the shit economy that will ensue I hope they can make it intact

[Sutekh]

There’s another Instagram poster anniejanaabrams who’s put up some disturbing stuff including voice recordings and screenshots. Seems like he was sent over the edge by the Metal Hammer interview which he calls a hatchet job and was threatening to kill himself to this woman. Hmm wouldn’t be a great loss

Can't find this one, any links or screenies?

[WorzelG]

Can't find this one, any links or screenies?
I’ve had trouble linking specific Instagram posts here, but this should link to her profile. At this point, it’s getting so bad it actually feels more like revelling in salacious shit than actually doing anything helpful! Think I’m going to bow out of looking up anymore of this shit, life is bad enough lately

https://instagram.com/anniejanaabrams?igshid=4ef8jp0nj8ru

[october_midnight]

Well that's interesting, didn't know she was involved in any way. I know who this person is, have seen her at many a concert back in the day. She lives in Vancouver. Yeesh.

[icklekitty]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes


Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

[Sutekh]

Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

Ah right - interesting, as someone in my 30s I feel more akin to gen X than people in their 20s

[Leviathant]

Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

Here I am, 41, still can't identify with a generation.

P.S. Marilyn Manson has always been a terrible person. Glad to see him being exposed to sunlight.

[poinoup]

Got a text from a friend asking if I wanted the book or the "God Is..." on VHS. I said she should go make a buck on eBay with it, some gonad will buy it.

[allegro]

This "Generation" thing is only a tool for market-targeting, anyway. So people can sell you shit.

I do see differences - good ones, I think - in younger generations bringing about a lot more change, e.g. refusing to accept status quo. BLM, LGBTQ, ERA, civil rights, justice reform, addressing climate change, fair pay, balanced life and work, refusal to accept rape culture, etc., it's all great stuff. I have great faith in our younger generations. They can't do it alone, though; we need to help them.

P.S. - I threw my old copy of Manson's book into the recycling bin today. It was the only Manson thing I owned. (Edit: I had to find it, first.)

[firewlker]

Got a text from a friend asking if I wanted the book or the "God Is..." on VHS. I said she should go make a buck on eBay with it, some gonad will buy it.

I'll probably sell my cds too, or trade for anothers in a store.

[october_midnight]

Thought this (https://www.loudersound.com/features/we-need-to-talk-about-the-response-to-the-marilyn-manson-abuse-allegations?fbclid=IwAR0hiJ3_bPFMruF3SIj571Dfg2wXS eEwmsw-J5RQlZL-1XFBh6aWZIpQwwE) was an important read.

[poinoup]

I'll probably sell my cds too, or trade for anothers in a store.


Those are already gone. She didn't care about limited editions, vinyls or the like. I think I should go find that book and that VHS here and go have a little campfire.

[ickyvicky]

Manager Tony Ciulla has now dropped Manson

[Erneuert]

Never liked this guy. Never got into any of his music. Glad I never did.

[Erneuert]

EDIT: Nevermind, there's no good reason for me to explain it.

Sorry, but I really want to hear more about this Gillian Anderson story as well, lol. PM?

[Erneuert]

I’m glad he did put out a statement. I don’t think he had to, but I’m glad he confronted it (again) rather than remaining silent.

i fucking hate Manson. I’ve never been a fan, and I always just found him to be some disgusting creepoid. I remember people trying to compare Mason to Alice Cooper, but there’s no similarity. Alice Cooper got sober and helped others. Manson has always been the same sack of shit, digging deeper into his persona of being fucked up and vile.

My sentiments exactly.

[Erneuert]

Sorry for four posts in a row - just finding out about all this now. Been away.

Anyway, just read that story about the “fish woman” thing for the first time. Umm, why would he have something published like that in the first place? Would want to? What publisher would let someone, even? I’m at a loss after reading that.

[elevenism]

I never thought anything about manson was just a "persona," since the time I was exposed to his band opening for NIN in 94.

He always seemed like a legitimately pretty twisted dude to me. I stopped with Smells Like Children. I didn't keep listening to it because it honestly creeped me out.

I guess I'm surprised that ANYONE is surprised about rape/abuse allegations against this dude, or trying to claim he wouldn't do such things.

I really wouldn't put ANYTHING past that guy, I guess, is what I'm saying.