If Nirvana's Nevermind hadn't been released? How would the 90' have been different?

[GulDukat]

A hypothetical look at alternative history, if the most ground-breaking, game-changing, consequential album of the 90's had never been released.

Imagine an alternative universe where Kurt Cobain gets a job at Applebees and decides that cooking is his true passion and doesn't pursue music. The Seattle scene still exists, it's just that Nirvana was never a band and Nevermind is not released in the fall of 1991. The floodgates for Seattle rock bands like Pearl Jam and Soundgarden aren't opened, or for alt.rock bands like The Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, etc.

What would the 90's have looked like?

[GulDukat]

My thoughts:

Even before Nevermind took off, there was already a sea-change happening. Bands that had success in the 1980's like Cinderella, RATT, David Lee Roth, etc. were seeing their album sales stall and 1991 was not a good year for concerts for bands of that era. Audiences wanted something different. Jane's Addiction was connecting with audiences, and the alt.rock of the early 90's was starting to break though. My sense is if there hadn't been a Nevermind, the alt.rock revolution wouldn't have been so drastic, but something like that still would have happened. For bands like Warrant, Poison, etc. their fortunes still would have waned, but their careers wouldn't have ended overnight, as they did when Nevermind really started to take off and their audience abandoned them overnight. Guns N' Roses still would have imploded under their own weight and been inactive for years.

So maybe in this alt.universe Pearl Jam are still massive in 1994, but Warrant can still pull a decent turnout at 5k sized theaters, instead of not selling out small clubs, which was the actual case.

[MrLobster]

And a question related to that... if BritPop is a response to Grunge, as many view it, would it even have happened at all?

[eversonpoe]

i think that hip-hop & rap would have taken off in a more widespread and mainstream manner. grunge was essentially the music of the disaffected; gen-Xers who were in their teens and found something that spoke to their burgeoning attitudes about political and social issues. i think some rap & hip-hop would have fulfilled that same need for them if grunge hadn't become a thing. it also might have pushed rap into a less misogynistic direction, but there would also probably be a lot​ more bad white rappers haha

[Archive_Reports]

i think that hip-hop & rap would have taken off in a more widespread and mainstream manner. grunge was essentially the music of the disaffected; gen-Xers who were in their teens and found something that spoke to their burgeoning attitudes about political and social issues. i think some rap & hip-hop would have fulfilled that same need for them if grunge hadn't become a thing. it also might have pushed rap into a less misogynistic direction, but there would also probably be a lot​ more bad white rappers haha

Funny you said that last bit because I was going to say something about Snow being huge for decades to come.

In all seriousness, I think music would have taken the same general path, it just may have taken longer to get there.

[katara]

Hypotheticals.

Each moment is built of infinite possibilities, infinite timelines. One can speculate but get nowhere.

It's like saying that the Nu Metal genre would never have been created if Korn hadn't formed. Their influences (Primus, Faith No More, etc) still exist. Someone else at some point would have done something similar.

Same with Nirvana. Influences like Black Sabbath, Pixies, The Beatles. A band isn't just their output, it's a crucible of life experiences, inspirations, cultural zeitgeist, and compulsive surrender to art. Whatever would have happened in this imagined scenario could have been quite different. Music may very well have diverged onto an alternate tack. There's really no way to know.

Conversely, what if Punk never happened? The question is absurd, because it had to happen. Politically, socially, this was a response to what life in the 70s had become. Perhaps the same is true with a band like Nirvana.

[GulDukat]

Hypotheticals.

Each moment is built of infinite possibilities, infinite timelines. One can speculate but get nowhere.

It's like saying that the Nu Metal genre would never have been created if Korn hadn't formed. Their influences (Primus, Faith No More, etc) still exist. Someone else at some point would have done something similar.

Same with Nirvana. Influences like Black Sabbath, Pixies, The Beatles. A band isn't just their output, it's a crucible of life experiences, inspirations, cultural zeitgeist, and compulsive surrender to art. Whatever would have happened in this imagined scenario could have been quite different. Music may very well have diverged onto an alternate tack. There's really no way to know.

Conversely, what if Punk never happened? The question is absurd, because it had to happen. Politically, socially, this was a response to what life in the 70s had become. Perhaps the same is true with a band like Nirvana.
"What ifs' are pointless, but still fun and make you think. Go over to YouTube, there are about a million videos about the South winning the Civil War and the Axis Powers winning WWII.

[katara]

"What ifs'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHjFzw1TUg

[theimage13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHjFzw1TUg

Like they said...


"What ifs' are pointless

[GulDukat]

I want to take this thread down wildly speculative, but not 100% absurd path (just 99% absurd):

Nirvana/Kurt Cobain were very influential and made younger people question cultural norms, gender roles and, overall, the world around them. He arguably made a lot of younger people more progressive. 1992 was an election year and while it was an electoral landslide for Clinton, the popular vote was fairly close, Clinton got 43%, Bush got 37.4 and Perot got 18.9. Now, say Kurt Cobain hadn't been a cultural influence back in 1992, perhaps just a sliver of people wouldn't have voted for Clinton, maybe they would have stayed home or voted for Bush. Without Kurt Cobain, the whole zeitgeist of 1992 is different. George H.W wins the election.

So without Nirvana, George H.W. Bush wins a second term in 1992 and the 1994 Republican revolution, led by Newt Gingrich, which was a reaction against Clinton doesn't happen. In 1996, after 16 years of Republican presidents, people want a change and Jerry Brown is elected in 1996 and reelected in 2000 (Bush v. Gore never happens). Without Dick Cheney, the entire war on terrorism looks different. Perhaps 911 doesn't happen at all, because the Brown Administration is more on-the-ball about potential terrorist attacks. In 2004 the Republicans take back the White House, perhaps John McCain becomes POTUS. Because there was no George W. Bush administration, people are not hungry for change in 2008 and Obama never becomes president, remaining in the U.S. Senate.

All because Nevermind was never released.

[BRoswell]

Success, at least when it comes to art, is sometimes about being the right thing at the right moment. There was a lot of anger and angst coming out of the end of the 80s, and people wanted art that reflected it. Nirvana just happened to be what people wanted and needed at the time. Would people have found that had Nevermind not come out? Probably. Nirvana wasn't the only one delivering the goods at the time. They just happened to hit it big at the right time.

[allegro]

gen-Xers who were in their teens and found something that spoke to their burgeoning attitudes about political and social issues.
Gen X was amended to start at 1961 but, yeah, hip-hop had already taken over substantially by 1991. (Yo, MTV Raps was on from 1988 to 1995 and totally changed MTV until they switched to reality series TV.)

Gun ‘n Roses’ “Appetite for Destruction” came in and revived “rock” out of a coma - “Welcome to the Jungle” shook music very much like “Smells Like Teen Spirit.” Neither were boring. I’m not calling “Jungle” grunge or punk but it’s definitely hard-driving in-your-face visceral in the same way as grunge or punk.

The feeling I had when I first heard (and still hear) “Jungle” is the exact same feeling I had (and still have) when I hear “Teen Spirit.”

“Teen Spirit” was allegedly the antithesis to “Jungle.” But “Jungle” was the antithesis to hundreds of total shit hair metal bands in 1987.

At the same time as Nirvana, we had Soundgarden. And I think Badmotorfinger still would have happened.

Or Pearl Jam’s Ten which wasn’t grunge but whatever. eversonpoe is right, not having this interlude into grunge would have hastened the flow into bad white hip-hop.

[GulDukat]

Duff was the punk-rocker in GN'R and gave them a splash of punk. Easy to see why Axl replaced him with Tommy Stinson.

[WorzelG]

And a question related to that... if BritPop is a response to Grunge, as many view it, would it even have happened at all?
Don’t say that - I’m British and that would have been an absolute boon. I fucking hate Britpop. I think grunge set music back personally. When I was 8 I was listening to Human Leagues Dare album and it felt to me like the blokey guitar music set things back to the past whereas the electronic stuff of Dare felt very futuristic

[MrLobster]

I fucking hate Britpop.

I'm mostly ambivalent towards it... but my general exposure wasn't very heavy.

[WorzelG]

My thoughts:

Even before Nevermind took off, there was already a sea-change happening. Bands that had success in the 1980's like Cinderella, RATT, David Lee Roth, etc. were seeing their album sales stall and 1991 was not a good year for concerts for bands of that era. Audiences wanted something different. Jane's Addiction was connecting with audiences, and the alt.rock of the early 90's was starting to break though. My sense is if there hadn't been a Nevermind, the alt.rock revolution wouldn't have been so drastic, but something like that still would have happened. For bands like Warrant, Poison, etc. their fortunes still would have waned, but their careers wouldn't have ended overnight, as they did when Nevermind really started to take off and their audience abandoned them overnight. Guns N' Roses still would have imploded under their own weight and been inactive for years.

So maybe in this alt.universe Pearl Jam are still massive in 1994, but Warrant can still pull a decent turnout at 5k sized theaters, instead of not selling out small clubs, which was the actual case.
Guns N Roses were a weird one. I don’t think Axl Rose realised they were the sum of their parts and needed to be a band. I saw them at stadiums in the UK every year from 1991-1993 and they got progressively worse and more indulgent (probably to Axl!) till seeing them at Milton Keynes in the pissing rain we determined never to see them again. I’m sure I loved them in 1991 though I can honestly barely remember it

[onthewall2983]

Gun ‘n Roses’ “Appetite for Destruction” came in and revived “rock” out of a coma - “Welcome to the Jungle” shook music very much like “Smells Like Teen Spirit.” Neither were boring. I’m not calling “Jungle” grunge or punk but it’s definitely hard-driving in-your-face visceral in the same way as grunge or punk.

The feeling I had when I first heard (and still hear) “Jungle” is the exact same feeling I had (and still have) when I hear “Teen Spirit.”

“Teen Spirit” was allegedly the antithesis to “Jungle.” But “Jungle” was the antithesis to hundreds of total shit hair metal bands in 1987.

Long before Axl got into Twitter spats with Mnuchin and attacked a Donald Trump pinata on stage, he wasn't above making misogynistic, racist or homophobic references in his lyrics. Let alone what happened to Guns 'n Roses by the early 90's and the infamous tour with Metallica where they fully embraced the excessive aspects of what happens to million-selling rock bands. Nirvana, Pearl Jam and others were at least an antithesis of that alpha-male attitude. Underneath all the thrashing noise there was a sensitivity which emerged that never flowered because the next generation of bands trampled all over it.

[allegro]

Long before Axl got into Twitter spats with Mnuchin and attacked a Donald Trump pinata on stage, he wasn't above making misogynistic, racist or homophobic references in his lyrics. Let alone what happened to Guns 'n Roses by the early 90's and the infamous tour with Metallica where they fully embraced the excessive aspects of what happens to million-selling rock bands. Nirvana, Pearl Jam and others were at least an antithesis of that alpha-male attitude. Underneath all the thrashing noise there was a sensitivity which emerged that never flowered because the next generation of bands trampled all over it.

I totally agree with the lyrical content, etc. But, hip-hop was and is largely the same way. As was rock (let's not forget NIN and Manson covering groupies in lunchmeat, etc.) And let's not forget that a large number of grunge artists OD'd or committed suicide. We're not talking about societal representation, here? I thought we were talking about general "musical direction?"

[allegro]

Guns N Roses were a weird one. I don’t think Axl Rose realised they were the sum of their parts and needed to be a band. I saw them at stadiums in the UK every year from 1991-1993 and they got progressively worse and more indulgent (probably to Axl!) till seeing them at Milton Keynes in the pissing rain we determined never to see them again. I’m sure I loved them in 1991 though I can honestly barely remember it

Axl was, to some extent, either mentally ill or hugely addicted, or both. His behavior became progressively worse and worse until his "appetite for destruction" worsened to literal self-destruction. Sounds like someone we know on a tour in Japan, once, yes? Re Axl sum of its parts, absolutely. (Same with Eddie Van Halen.)


Don’t say that - I’m British and that would have been an absolute boon. I fucking hate Britpop. I think grunge set music back personally. When I was 8 I was listening to Human Leagues Dare album and it felt to me like the blokey guitar music set things back to the past whereas the electronic stuff of Dare felt very futuristic

Where does Pulp fall into this, out of curiosity? (I'm a HUGE Pulp fan, but I'm a Yank so I dunno.)

To a certain extent, yes, grunge WAS a "step back." Absolutely. It was back to "roots." Nirvana's "unplugged" MTV album was its best-selling album, I think? Which is even weirder.

[WorzelG]

Axl was, to some extent, either mentally ill or hugely addicted, or both. His behavior became progressively worse and worse until his "appetite for destruction" worsened to literal self-destruction. Sounds like someone we know on a tour in Japan, once, yes? Re Axl sum of its parts, absolutely. (Same with Eddie Van Halen.)



Where does Pulp fall into this, out of curiosity? (I'm a HUGE Pulp fan, but I'm a Yank so I dunno.)

To a certain extent, yes, grunge WAS a "step back." Absolutely. It was back to "roots." Nirvana's "unplugged" MTV album was its best-selling album, I think? Which is even weirder.
This article sums up what I feel about how regressive the Britpop thing was, It just felt like it was ignoring a lot of the more dance stuff of the time in the U.K. Rave and dance were massive but all the press just focussed on these white guitar bands, it was bizarre and a bit racist
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/music-theatre/2017/05/tracey-thorn-unbearable-whiteness-britpop

[brotha52]

i think that hip-hop & rap would have taken off in a more widespread and mainstream manner. grunge was essentially the music of the disaffected; gen-Xers who were in their teens and found something that spoke to their burgeoning attitudes about political and social issues. i think some rap & hip-hop would have fulfilled that same need for them if grunge hadn't become a thing. it also might have pushed rap into a less misogynistic direction, but there would also probably be a lot​ more bad white rappers haha
Definitely this. 1994 would have been what 1999 was in terms of rap. The commercialization would have been completed in a more timely manner and hopefully the EDM movement would have skipped over the House and Trance and landed dead center in DnB.

[onthewall2983]

The "shoegaze" bands like My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive were likewise slighted by the Britpop stuff too. Steven Wilson's early band No-Man was a kind of cross between dance music and art rock, which had a hint of early success but the label mismanaged them so bad for not easily fitting into one box or the other, they eventually relegated to being a studio project while SW's other band Porcupine Tree gradually became a live act with a cult following by the end of the 90's.


I totally agree with the lyrical content, etc. But, hip-hop was and is largely the same way. As was rock (let's not forget NIN and Manson covering groupies in lunchmeat, etc.) And let's not forget that a large number of grunge artists OD'd or committed suicide. We're not talking about societal representation, here? I thought we were talking about general "musical direction?"

NIN and Manson were outliers (albeit successful ones) to the 90's alternative movement. I think Manson even said Motley Crue was a big influence on him early on. The "movement" as it were, had many attitude shifts from generations before them, about sex and gender. Some of those older attitudes remained and there were no lack of groupies obviously. I was more or less pointing out that with Nirvana and Pearl Jam (Vedder writing pro-choice slogans on his arm), for the first time white guys with guitars were not afraid to appear sympathetic to more feminist thinking.

[WorzelG]

I think you have to be really drinking the grunge Kool Aid to believe there was no groupie antics going on. How did the Courtney Love thing happen for a start if Cobain was a monk and what a fucking publicity circus was that for a band that SHUNNED the limelight except for a billion articles and not to mention all the TV appearances. What a crock of shit

[allegro]

This article sums up what I feel about how regressive the Britpop thing was, It just felt like it was ignoring a lot of the more dance stuff of the time in the U.K. Rave and dance were massive but all the press just focussed on these white guitar bands, it was bizarre and a bit racist
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/music-theatre/2017/05/tracey-thorn-unbearable-whiteness-britpop

Ah yeah I got ya, and you’re right. I was way late to the Pulp party, I’d never even heard of that stuff re Jarvis.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

I have had this discussion with friends before.....There were plenty of bands breaking down barriers by 1990/1991......Faith No More, Ministry, Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr, Primus, Nine Inch Nails, Pixies, Chili Peppers (before they went to shit), Jesus and Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Pantera, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Slayer etc plus gangster rap was breaking through......Nirvana (as much as I dig them) did not single-handedly break down the door in late 91. The door was already coming off the hinges in 90 when Faith No More dropped 'The Real Thing' and Primus dropped Frizzle Fry and the Chili Peppers started getting big and then by 91 the metal world was starting to break into the mainstream because suddenly Pantera and Metallica and Anthrax were charting. The indie world was thriving with Sonic Youth leading the way. Even industrial was at its height with Ministry leading the way (soon to be bypassed by our beloved Trent)....What Kurt did was basically deliver the final blow and kicked down the door (that was already coming off the hinges) and everyone came crashing through the door with Nirvana. Nirvana was the biggest band and they helped open the door for all these bands to get mass exposure but a lot of those bands already were thriving within their own fanbases and were on the verge of breaking through regardless........so if Nevermind never happens, all these other bands still have success among their own fans and get lots of cred....they just wouldn't have been on MTV that much in 1992 and 1993 and instead MTV would have just been C&C Music Factory and Guns N Roses videos.....

A more fascinating topic is what would have happened if Kurt didnt get murdered...I mean kill himself....Because take a look at the shitshow mainstream music became by 1999.....Nu metal and pop music reigned supreme. All these "alternative" and "grunge" bands from the mid 90s had broken up, burned out or went to shit. Major labels were dropping those bands left and right by then as well (By 99, Primus broke up, Faith No More broke up, Soundgarden broke up, Chili Peppers and Metallica went to shit, the Pumpkins burned to the ground, Mudhoney and Dinosaur Jr got dropped from their labels, Pantera was on the verge of imploding, Alice In Chains burned to the ground, Pearl Jam took themselves out of the limelight, the Mary Chain split, Ministry and Skinny Puppy imploded, Trent took a 5 year hiatus and went in his cave, etc...the list goes on of alt rock casualties by the late 90s and Kurts death started the domino effect....Does Fred Durst even happen if Kurt was still alive? Or would Limp Bizkit have been relegated to 3rd stage at Gathering of the Juggalos if Kurt was still around?

In conclusion. If there was no Nevermind....by 1993 Becks "Loser" would have charted number 1 and Beck would have been the poster boy for Gen X (he came pretty damn close as is)

[GulDukat]

But would Beck have been signed to a major label and would the label and given Mellow Gold a big push without Nirvana?

[allegro]

But would Beck have been signed to a major label and would the label and given Mellow Gold a big push without Nirvana?

Yes.

King Missile’s “Detachable Penis” was a hit in 1992.

Your Honor, I rest my case.

[GulDukat]

Yes.

King Missile’s “Detachable Penis” was a hit in 1992.

Your Honor, I rest my case.
But if Micky Dolenz is cast as The Fonz in 1974, everything is thrown out of whack.

[allegro]

But if Micky Dolenz is cast as The Fonz in 1974, everything is thrown out of whack.

Oh God yes. I mean, no. Please, God, no.

[GulDukat]

Oh God yes. I mean, no. Please, God, no.I totally see it. Henry Winkler was like 5'6, Dolenz would have been a better lovable hooligan.

[Magnetic]

To be honest, yah, Nirvana contributed to the conversation going on then....but honestly, I never was that into them.
I was waaaaaay more interested in what the Beastie Boys were doing...and to this day I feel they were so under-rated compared to Nirvana back then.

Along with....Faith No More, Pearl Jam, Bjork, PJ Harvey, Sonic Youth, Primus, Pixies, Jesus and Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, etc... obviously NIN was forefront on that.

When Kurt Cobain's death became known...I was immersed in a several month's-long affair with TDS. DGAF.
I had friends who were in mourning, and I was just put my headphones back on.

[allegro]

But “Check Your Head” was released a year after “Nevermind” and “Paul’s Boutique” was released 2 years before “Nevermind.”

[Magnetic]

Exactly, Paul's Boutique was waaaay more interesting, and after Kurt died, Check Your Head made me think, WTF was Nevermind? I just never cared because I found other things to obsess over.

It's ok. I still blow up friends when I tell them I don't worship at the Radiohead alter either.

[allegro]

I don’t think people should worship at any music alter.

Nirvana died then we got Primus’ “Wynona’s Big Brown Beaver.”

[WorzelG]

Ah yeah I got ya, and you’re right. I was way late to the Pulp party, I’d never even heard of that stuff re Jarvis.
I’ll be honest and say there is Britpop I might like, but it was pushed on you so hard in the UK by our awful music press I just switched off. I still maintain we have the worst press in the Western world (that isn’t actual propaganda, although I don’t think our press has any right to say it isn’t propaganda, it’s just for Rupert Murdoch or other billionaires)

[bobbie solo]

My thoughts:

Even before Nevermind took off, there was already a sea-change happening. Bands that had success in the 1980's like Cinderella, RATT, David Lee Roth, etc. were seeing their album sales stall and 1991 was not a good year for concerts for bands of that era. Audiences wanted something different. Jane's Addiction was connecting with audiences, and the alt.rock of the early 90's was starting to break though. My sense is if there hadn't been a Nevermind, the alt.rock revolution wouldn't have been so drastic, but something like that still would have happened. For bands like Warrant, Poison, etc. their fortunes still would have waned, but their careers wouldn't have ended overnight, as they did when Nevermind really started to take off and their audience abandoned them overnight. Guns N' Roses still would have imploded under their own weight and been inactive for years.

So maybe in this alt.universe Pearl Jam are still massive in 1994, but Warrant can still pull a decent turnout at 5k sized theaters, instead of not selling out small clubs, which was the actual case.

This is a fair take.

[bobbie solo]

I want to take this thread down wildly speculative, but not 100% absurd path (just 99% absurd):

Nirvana/Kurt Cobain were very influential and made younger people question cultural norms, gender roles and, overall, the world around them. He arguably made a lot of younger people more progressive. 1992 was an election year and while it was an electoral landslide for Clinton, the popular vote was fairly close, Clinton got 43%, Bush got 37.4 and Perot got 18.9. Now, say Kurt Cobain hadn't been a cultural influence back in 1992, perhaps just a sliver of people wouldn't have voted for Clinton, maybe they would have stayed home or voted for Bush. Without Kurt Cobain, the whole zeitgeist of 1992 is different. George H.W wins the election.

So without Nirvana, George H.W. Bush wins a second term in 1992 and the 1994 Republican revolution, led by Newt Gingrich, which was a reaction against Clinton doesn't happen. In 1996, after 16 years of Republican presidents, people want a change and Jerry Brown is elected in 1996 and reelected in 2000 (Bush v. Gore never happens). Without Dick Cheney, the entire war on terrorism looks different. Perhaps 911 doesn't happen at all, because the Brown Administration is more on-the-ball about potential terrorist attacks. In 2004 the Republicans take back the White House, perhaps John McCain becomes POTUS. Because there was no George W. Bush administration, people are not hungry for change in 2008 and Obama never becomes president, remaining in the U.S. Senate.

All because Nevermind was never released.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b4e1120194a4761d3576048a4ace9f95/tenor.gif

[katara]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b4e1120194a4761d3576048a4ace9f95/tenor.gif
Yeah, that was more or less my reaction, too. It's a bit... how can I say it...

https://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/farfetchd.jpg

[versusreality]

I think bands that were about to crack the surface until grunge hit, like Ride, Slowdive, Lush, My Bloody Valentine would have been much bigger. Heck, "Only Shallow" could have been the "teen spirit" in this hypothetical scenario.

[eversonpoe]

I think bands that were about to crack the surface until grunge hit, like Ride, Slowdive, Lush, My Bloody Valentine would have been much bigger. Heck, "Only Shallow" could have been the "teen spirit" in this hypothetical scenario.

that song is one of the best album openers of all time

[GulDukat]

I think bands that were about to crack the surface until grunge hit, like Ride, Slowdive, Lush, My Bloody Valentine would have been much bigger. Heck, "Only Shallow" could have been the "teen spirit" in this hypothetical scenario.Great, great song, but not really an anthem millions of teens would rally around.

[onthewall2983]

Those bands had atmosphere for days, but no riffs or hooks. No matter what else is lacking, to be a successful mainstream rock band you needed those things.

[GulDukat]

And no Nirvana, no Bush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps317u9Rhl0

Can you imagine a high school dance in the 90's without this song?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOllF3TgAsM

Would you have wanted to live in a world without Glycerine?

[Archive_Reports]

Razorblade Suitcase is a great album though.

[GulDukat]

Razorblade Suitcase is a great album though.
I love Bush, man!

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

I love Bush, man!


Don't we all....Don't we all.......Not the band...And not the president.....

[GulDukat]

Don't we all....Don't we all.......Not the band...And not the president.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDqsgbtpDLk