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cdm
08-11-2020, 07:51 AM
wait, so they want kids to play sports for no money and the chance to catch a disease that the military is actively screening against for entry?

Fucking repellent.

But I'm told America needs football.

sweeterthan
08-11-2020, 08:33 AM
But I'm told America needs football.

sounds like a biden campaign slogan to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

allegate
08-11-2020, 09:55 AM
https://i.imgur.com/n21hSrG.png

Jinsai
08-11-2020, 10:21 AM
Finally, the Onion is getting the hang of how to satirize this.

Holy shit... this article is 2 years old.
This has got to stop.

versusreality
08-11-2020, 10:33 AM
Trump said today that the NBA players are in "big trouble...bigger trouble than they understand" because they have been outspoken/kneeling during the anthem.

The NBA has become a new target, because the right knows that the greatest concentration of Black wealth in the country is there.

Not that I want to see college football happen, or the NFL, but if it does, one can expect the same type of unification that the NBA players have.

M1ke
08-11-2020, 10:40 AM
Trump said today that the NBA players are in "big trouble...bigger trouble than they understand" because they have been outspoken/kneeling during the anthem.

The NBA has become a new target, because the right knows that the greatest concentration of Black wealth in the country is there.

Not that I want to see college football happen, or the NFL, but if it does, one can expect the same type of unification that the NBA players have.

It hasn't happened at every MLB game, but the Blue Jays VS Tampa Bay Rays did it on their opening day. And the Rays also tweeted this:

https://static.fox13news.com/www.fox13news.com/content/uploads/2020/07/tampa-bay-rays-tweet.jpg

EDIT: Also, seriously, what the fuck is the cheeto going to do about it? Is he going to order them shut down due to COVID? Is he going to try to impose a basketball tax? Is he going to send in his hired goons to take the players away in unmarked vans?

Honestly, that's a serious question. Him declaring the NBA to be a branch of antifa and throwing all the players in Guantanamo doesn't seem all that far fetched anymore.

Jinsai
08-11-2020, 11:11 AM
Trump said today that the NBA players are in "big trouble...bigger trouble than they understand" because they have been outspoken/kneeling during the anthem.

We need to start burning the flag. Fuck this.

allegro
08-11-2020, 11:27 AM
ďBigger trouble than they understandĒ is RACIST because itís clearly indicating his belief that BLACK BASKETBALL PLAYERS are TOO IGNORANT to know what they are doing.

Heís such a piece of shit.

versusreality
08-11-2020, 11:54 AM
more:
Trump went on to criticize players taking the knee in the NBA, saying there was a “nastiness” about players’ peaceful protests, but praised the predominantly white National Hockey League, saying its players “respected the mores, they respected what they’re supposed to be doing.”


Toward the end of the interview, Travis also asked the president who he considers the better player between Michael Jordan or LeBron James. In what Travis lauded as a “perfect answer,” Trump picked Jordan as “he wasn’t political, so people like him better.”

allegate
08-11-2020, 12:13 PM
Trump used a word like mores in a sentence and it wasn't referencing s'mores? fucking wild.

richardp
08-11-2020, 02:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uYJjDHeDU

Archive_Reports
08-11-2020, 03:54 PM
On the heels of the shooting around WH yesterday, realistically what would happen if Trump were assassinated? Like, would his odd hold on people disappear or would it push people further in that direction?

BRoswell
08-11-2020, 04:21 PM
Like, would his odd hold on people disappear...

Fuuuuck no. They'd see him as a martyr.

marodi
08-11-2020, 04:48 PM
You Americans missed your daily history lesson, yesterday:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1292956445944606721?s=20

M1ke
08-11-2020, 04:50 PM
Fuuuuck no. They'd see him as a martyr.

They might, but nobody else is twisted enough to take his place and be anything other than a pretender, they wouldn't be able to command his base the way he does. Pence would be president until November. Pence or someone else would try to rally his base, and they would fail.

versusreality
08-11-2020, 04:55 PM
They might, but nobody else is twisted enough to take his place and be anything other than a pretender, they wouldn't be able to command his base the way he does. Pence would be president until November. Pence or someone else would try to rally his base, and they would fail.

it's almost a given that Donald Trump Jr will run in the future.
this is just the beginning of the nightmare, I fear...

Jinsai
08-11-2020, 05:00 PM
it's almost a given that Donald Trump Jr will run in the future.

I think we're tired of this, for a while. They'll reboot it later, but Don Jr will be told to fuck off if he tries. And then he will dutifully (as he's always done when told) fuck off.

allegro
08-11-2020, 05:09 PM
I think Jr will be indicted, first.

allegro
08-11-2020, 06:22 PM
Ivanka will be indicted, too.

allegate
08-12-2020, 05:38 PM
https://twitter.com/vmsalama/status/1293631670101442560

can it just be November already?

Kodiak33
08-13-2020, 09:45 AM
I've been wondering about this train since he started on it months back. Is this a dog whistle I'm not getting? Who is he wooing with this? As I've established recently, even though I thought I wasn't really in a bubble, I'm still in a bit of a bubble. So, what's the deal? Surely if this were just about his "fuck the climate" thing, he'd have seized on something more...significant than shower and dishwasher pressure? Are people really struggling with this?

When this started, I surveyed fifty or sixty people in the bar I worked at, right on the edge of the rust belt in a red county. Literally no one said they'd ever had an issue with their dishwasher other than "fucking landlord's too shitty to fix it" or "it's so old it sounds like a lawnmower."

Am I missing something important? Why is this his thing?

Well I'm guessing it goes something like this.

Trump complains about something, then tells someone to look into it (because right now he acts like a king). The person comes back and says it may be because regulations whatever. Then he tells one of his cronies to fix it somehow.

cdm
08-13-2020, 10:02 AM
Well I'm guessing it goes something like this.

Trump complains about something, then tells someone to look into it (because right now he acts like a king). The person comes back and says it may be because regulations whatever. Then he tells one of his cronies to fix it somehow.

I've thought about this, too. It has to be personal. He probably got pissed his Ivanka fantasy was interrupted by the realization his shower pressure sucks and it ruined his day. I don't see anyone in the plumbing fixture industry railing against this...it just doesn't make much sense.

allegate
08-13-2020, 11:36 AM
https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1293883405990596608

I know it's been discussed about how an impeachment this close to the election could be seen as a negative but that was for some petty-ass usual Trump bullshit. This, this is different. This needs to happen today. he's telling on himself, you don't even have to call witnesses! just play the God-damn tapes and that's your witness.

allegro
08-13-2020, 11:53 AM
https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1293883405990596608

I know it's been discussed about how an impeachment this close to the election could be seen as a negative but that was for some petty-ass usual Trump bullshit. This, this is different. This needs to happen today. he's telling on himself, you don't even have to call witnesses! just play the God-damn tapes and that's your witness.
From what I understand, this is totally illegal; tampering with the USPS, deliberately. Seems like one more indictment if he loses.

allegro
08-13-2020, 12:14 PM
https://twitter.com/vmsalama/status/1293631670101442560

can it just be November already?

My husband and I have always hated those water-saver things in showers. Pretty much everyone in the Great Lakes States do; we live literally one mile from the water plant and two miles from the giant source of water that keeps RISING, not lowering, and we pay by volume for our water.

Everywhere else, I totally get it; here, we use a drill to disable the water saver filter.

I don’t think Trump knows how to use a drill, though.

edit: I also suspect that the plumbing in the White House being so old might be contributing to the lack of water pressure, not the shower head.

allegate
08-13-2020, 03:32 PM
https://twitter.com/richardhine/status/1293947408687280128


https://twitter.com/andmichaelgreen/status/1293906645462839297

versusreality
08-13-2020, 04:10 PM
It's pathetic how he is fucking with the USPS ESPECIALLY during the time of a pandemic.

For instance, I had an item shipped from TN to here in NJ. because of current events, it's been nearly a month and I still haven't gotten it yet. thing is, it's something I want to return, and can't get a refund (over $100) until I ship it back to them. ughhhh.

allegate
08-13-2020, 06:57 PM
https://twitter.com/taradublinrocks/status/1294042209470177280

"uh, I wanted to ask about the payroll tax" is such a shitty follow-up to that.

Jinsai
08-13-2020, 07:20 PM
Kanye West is now saying that he's talking to Jared Kushner "daily."

allegate
08-13-2020, 08:09 PM
Judge orders Trump campaign to produce evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-orders-trump-campaign-to-produce-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-pennsylvania/ar-BB17VriQ?ocid=uxbndlbing)


Ranjan, the judge overseeing the suit, was appointed by Trump.

allegro
08-13-2020, 08:31 PM
Huh. Weird. I live on the shore of Lake Ontario and have never heard anyone complain. Always interesting when you find out something is "a thing."

I think you’re misunderstanding. A Federal law was passed regarding water-saver fixtures and toilets in 1994. Federal, mandatory in all states. Even if there is zero need for water conservation in some of those states.

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/17/nyregion/home-clinic-federal-law-requires-new-faucets-and-toilets.html

allegro
08-13-2020, 08:33 PM
Kanye West is now saying that he's talking to Jared Kushner "daily."

LOL OMG.

Have fun in prison.

Edit:
https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1293179612625883136?s=21



Harvard Law Professor:
https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1293406471217188864?s=21

Jinsai
08-13-2020, 09:12 PM
now Kushner is claiming that Kanye and he have been "friends" for ten years or so, and talk every now and again.

What is this reality... it's too much

allegro
08-13-2020, 11:41 PM
No, I got you. I'm aware of the fixtures. I've just never heard anyone complain about the result—outside of that Seinfeld episode. And I've lived in a few cities where there would be no need for conservation. Weird that I didn't know it bothered people is all.

Perhaps it’s a generational thing. A shitload of us grew up with shower heads that were like fucking fire hydrants. After the new water-saver laws, it all changed.

You should read all the complaints about kitchen faucets. Omg. The water saver filters impede, but then when you combine that with sediment from galvanized pipes in old houses, your expensive faucet is kaput. I’ve gone through four kitchen faucets in the last 6 years. Cheap ones are even more disposable.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7vE4EaBrJ1I

/drift

allegro
08-13-2020, 11:50 PM
Re Post Office:

DeJoy is having SORTING MACHINES REMOVED!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/postal-service-sorting-machines/index.html

bobbie solo
08-14-2020, 03:29 AM
Everyone's rage at inaction is justifiable, but I haven't seen anyone yet say "This is who we yell at to make this stop." Our senators? Our congresspeople again? They would have to come back in session to address this, correct?

Do not put any faith in Dem leadership in the House or the Senate. Pelosi & Schumer are both fucking terrible, but the corrupt, ancient dinosaurs that head up the proper committees to take action on this in the House aren't anyone to get your hopes up about either.

bobbie solo
08-14-2020, 03:36 AM
Instead of letting Republicans that want redemption in a Biden White House construct the anti-Trump narrative with devastating ads, Cenk from TYT started a group to attack him with the same venom, but from actual leftists that aren't just mad that Trump winning in 2016 froze them out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpcZBknLn6o&ab_channel=TheRebellion

This is the first. I think it's really well done, especially serving to remind us of some of the older disgust we all had in the Trump admin's past moves. More are coming & supposedly will be even more aggressive. Spread these around in your circles.

allegate
08-14-2020, 09:57 AM
https://twitter.com/andmichaelgreen/status/1293906645462839297

didn't see this in a tweet so no pretty picture, just a response in the comments somewhere else:

You're not supposed to call him that yet.
"fewer" sounds like FŁhrer

allegro
08-14-2020, 10:46 AM
This is scary stuff. It reminds me a LOT of Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale,” and how - during the beginnings of the takeover - people protested and amplified the protests gradually but still didn’t see the impending DANGER ahead of them, and the protest groups were disjointed and focused on different goals and none of them saw the doom ahead of them (forest for the trees), until it was too late and the military was shooting and killing people and the borders were locked down and debit cards and credit cards were all locked down and people were rounded up and killed based on social media posts and protest presence etc. And the reader (or, the viewer of the TV series who’s read the book) yells “GET OUT, before it’s too late!”

And I’ve been at that point for a while. Wondering, is this the time to GTFO and bail? Can I trust other Americans to save us from disaster? Not just an election loss but something TERRIBLE like this?

That this could become Belarus? Easily. And it won’t matter where you are on the political scale; if you are the opposition, you’re in prison or dead.

https://twitter.com/rbreich/status/1288931928754847745?s=21

allegate
08-14-2020, 11:00 AM
Please don't amplify my inner turmoil like that, it makes me nervous and I start thinking about a tin foil hat to protect my brain waves.

https://twitter.com/HarrisonCramer/status/1294267501514240000

In a normal Presidency this would be something, but this one? It's a fart in the wind.

allegro
08-14-2020, 11:06 AM
It might be too late to leave, due to Covid.

The military is obviously already infiltrated by coup supporters. Those “military” people in Portland were obviously mercenaries, who will do his bidding. It’s suspected that they’re Russian. Nobody heard them speak.

I hate being THAT PERSON who’s worried about THAT STUFF.

But then will I be one of the idiots crying, later, wishing that I would have escaped before it got that bad?

People in Germany surely didn’t see the Final Solution horrors coming until Hitler was firmly in place.

allegate
08-14-2020, 11:28 AM
You mention Germany and it reminded me of some thoughts I had: They always talk about those people in Germany who just went along to get along, yeah? And I think about the people in the USPS - as an example - who are doing the same instead of pushing back against this. Or the people in the military. Or every fucking person in the entire government who is just going along because they don't want to make waves. This is their time, their time TO make waves. And they aren't. That's why we have an OIG and all that. Just fucking woman up and take a stand.

And no more of this imbecilic "I'm resigning because I don't recognize the department anymore" bull crap. Stay there, make the change happen.

allegro
08-14-2020, 12:19 PM
And I think about the people in the USPS - as an example - who are doing the same instead of pushing back against this.

To be fair, the workers in the USPS *are* pushing back against this. They're informing their customers about it; the union heads are on TV telling people about it and how it's impacting postal deliveries, etc.

But, otherwise, yeah, I agree with everything else you say; the GOP is not only complicit, Trump is their PUPPET. There's NO WAY that guy is smart enough to be orchestrating all of this by himself. That's a big machine, there, designed to create fascist power because they were going to lose power the old-fashioned way: via votes and attrition.

The GOP is a racist and nationalist machine, designed to keep white nationalists in power and to hold down the "others." Plain and simple, that's what it's morphed into. Make no mistake.

I was watching Lawrence O'Donnell and he had Stuart Stevens on, who wrote this book called "It Was All a Lie; How the Republican Party Became Donald Trump."

It was compelling, I immediately bought a copy, and will read it as soon as I'm finished reading this Mary Trump book.

This article in the Intercept sums a lot of it up: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-buckley-racism/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8B6VTj4j0U

allegro
08-14-2020, 12:37 PM
The American Postal Workers Union would like you all to follow them on Twitter and support them in their fight. https://www.apwu.org

https://twitter.com/APWUnational/status/1294256053962641408?s=20

allegro
08-14-2020, 12:39 PM
https://twitter.com/APWUnational/status/1294115277177643014?s=20

allegate
08-14-2020, 12:42 PM
https://twitter.com/DrJasonJohnson/status/1294261815833251841

well fuck me sideways.

allegro
08-14-2020, 12:57 PM
"It's not called the United States Postal Business. And that's for a reason. It's called the United States Postal Service. And we have an obligation under the law to serve everybody in this country, no matter who we are or where we live, from the most rural outpost or the densely-populated inner cities. So it's not a normal business where every letter somebody has to make a profit on, somebody has to make money."

https://twitter.com/holmescnn/status/1292322932677632001?s=20

Aladdinsanity
08-14-2020, 01:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DrJasonJohnson/status/1294261815833251841

well fuck me sideways.
https://twitter.com/gunnelswarren/status/1294314766572425219?s=21

Jinsai
08-14-2020, 02:05 PM
so I guess it shouldn't be surprising, but they're pushing a birther conspiracy with Kamala Harris now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53774289

allegro
08-14-2020, 02:10 PM
so I guess it shouldn't be surprising, but they're pushing a birther conspiracy with Kamala Harris now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53774289


Yeah, it's been circulating Twitter for a while, but it started getting pushed via NEWSWEEK magazine. When did Newsweek turn into such a fucking rag?

FOR THE RECORD: This shit has ZERO merit. ZERO.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/169/649

https://law.jrank.org/pages/24279/United-States-v-Wong-Kim-Ark-Question-Birthright.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark#Opinion_of_the_Court


Upholding the concept of jus soli (citizenship based on place of birth), the Court held that the Citizenship Clause needed to be interpreted in light of English common law, which had included as subjects virtually all native-born children, excluding only those who were born to foreign rulers or diplomats, born on foreign public ships, or born to enemy forces engaged in hostile occupation of the country's territory. The court's majority held that the subject to the jurisdiction phrase in the Citizenship Clause excluded from U.S. citizenship only those persons covered by one of these three exceptions (plus a fourth "single additional exception"—namely, that Indian tribes "not taxed" were not considered subject to U.S. jurisdiction). The majority concluded that none of these four exceptions to U.S. jurisdiction applied to Wong; in particular, they observed that "during all the time of their said residence in the United States, as domiciled residents therein, the said mother and father of said Wong Kim Ark were engaged in the prosecution of business, and were never engaged in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China".

To reiterate:

The exceptions to birthright citizenship are:

born to foreign rulers or diplomats
born on foreign public ships
born to enemy forces engaged in hostile occupation of the country's territory
Indian tribes "not taxed" and not considered subject to U.S. jurisdiction [note that this concept has since been revised through consequent case law]

Senator Kamala Harris' parents were not any of those four exceptions per U.S. vs. Wong Kim Ark and is, therefore, having been born in Oakland, California, a citizen of the United States of America.

Jinsai
08-14-2020, 02:32 PM
Trump actually pushed it further by clarifying that "they say she doesn't qualify because she wasn't born in this country."

allegro
08-14-2020, 02:34 PM
Trump actually pushed it further by clarifying that "they say she doesn't qualify because she wasn't born in this country."

SERIOUSLY????


wtf.

allegate
08-14-2020, 04:25 PM
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1294350475308027904

allegro
08-14-2020, 10:03 PM
OMG OMG The Lincoln Project does one of MY FAVORITE MOVIES!!!!!!!

Except, like, in a bad way.

https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1294413338198368256?s=21

allegate
08-15-2020, 10:47 AM
https://i.imgur.com/I7AeIPG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RuCFKqW.jpg

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 11:55 AM
so here's a headline from Fox news today: Why New York Assemblywoman Agrees Trump Could Win State in November (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-new-york-election-city-nicole-malliotakis)

Trump is NOT going to win New York. This Fox News bubble is so insane.

versusreality
08-15-2020, 12:03 PM
he'll win parts of NY, but no, he won't win the state overall. there are some deep red parts of NY

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 12:21 PM
he'll win parts of NY, but no, he won't win the state overall. there are some deep red parts of NY

Oh for sure. He made this same claim in 2016 (that he would win NY) and he lost it by 22 points. I've only really visited NYC, and from what I understand Staten Island is hard conservative.

It's just the delusional thinking... or at least, that's what I'd say if I hadn't said things back in 2016 that Trump had absolutely no chance in winning the election. However, if Trump actually wins the state in November, I will never believe the results of this election.

allegro
08-15-2020, 12:46 PM
https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1294362423378481152?s=21

allegro
08-15-2020, 12:50 PM
I was crying last night during Maddow about the Post Office and what Trump is doing.

My husband met our postal carrier out front this morning and asked her if it’s really as bad as they’re saying.

Her response: “Oh, yeah!”

He told her they’re doing a great job.

I’m still crying this morning.

I’ve been here over a half a century and I’ve never seen anything this blatantly authoritarian, fascist, I’ve never been this frightened.

It scares me more how many American citizens just don’t grok how terrifying this is, the direction this is going, HAS been going under Trump during his entire term.

Suppressing 1st amendment rights with military and tear gas and projectiles.

Now openly and brazenly suppressing voting rights via Executive power.

165,000 Americans dead, and increasing, due to total lack of leadership and suppression of science and testing.

klyrish
08-15-2020, 01:00 PM
I was crying last night during Maddow about the Post Office and what Trump is doing,

My husband met our postal carrier out front this morning and asked her if it’s really as bad as they’re saying.

Her response: “Oh, yeah!”

He told her they’re doing a great job.

I’m still crying this morning.

My wife and I gave ours a thank you card and $100 bill in it yesterday (I know they can't accept tips but no one's complaining :)) and she was so appreciative. She was also trying to be as "PC" as possible about it. I made a general comment about "everything that's going on with USPS" and she brushed it off with something like, "When you take this job, you know you're going to have to deal with a lot of bullshit" and laughed. But it must be extremely unnerving.

She's awesome and has been working late the last few weeks. We haven't missed a day of mail yet and I've seen people on Reddit saying it's been days since they saw their carrier.



It scares me more how many American citizens just don’t grok how terrifying this is, the direction this is going, HAS been going under Trump during her entire term.
What scares me even more than that is his brainwashed cult who ACTIVELY WANT THIS.

allegro
08-15-2020, 01:04 PM
What scares me even more than that is his brainwashed cult who ACTIVELY WANT THIS.

Yes. That scares me, too. It makes no sense.


My wife and I gave ours a thank you card and $100 bill in it yesterday

You and your wife are awesome for doing this. We don't even have a regular postal carrier, ours retired a few years ago and we've had subs ever since. We and all of our neighbors were really bummed out when Rick, our postal carrier of MANY years, retired.

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 01:31 PM
It scares me more how many American citizens just don’t grok how terrifying this is, the direction this is going, HAS been going under Trump during his entire term.

I really think so many people are going along with this fascist bullshit (or at least overlooking the terrifying implications of it) because it's "owning the libs."

EDIT: This is a decent take on his fascist tactics, and the article was written well before this whole attack on the USPS came up.
https://www.businessinsider.com/is-trump-fascist-jason-stanley-says-it-is-wrong-question-2020-7

versusreality
08-15-2020, 02:41 PM
Oh for sure. He made this same claim in 2016 (that he would win NY) and he lost it by 22 points. I've only really visited NYC, and from what I understand Staten Island is hard conservative.

It's just the delusional thinking... or at least, that's what I'd say if I hadn't said things back in 2016 that Trump had absolutely no chance in winning the election. However, if Trump actually wins the state in November, I will never believe the results of this election.

basically, mostly anything outside of NYC is Republican territory. lots of rural, farmland etc. Buffalo, Albany, and Syracuse are also more liberal, but lots of red mixed in it too.

versusreality
08-15-2020, 02:47 PM
I was crying last night during Maddow about the Post Office and what Trump is doing.

My husband met our postal carrier out front this morning and asked her if it’s really as bad as they’re saying.

Her response: “Oh, yeah!”

He told her they’re doing a great job.

I’m still crying this morning.

I’ve been here over a half a century and I’ve never seen anything this blatantly authoritarian, fascist, I’ve never been this frightened.

It scares me more how many American citizens just don’t grok how terrifying this is, the direction this is going, HAS been going under Trump during his entire term.

Suppressing 1st amendment rights with military and tear gas and projectiles.

Now openly and brazenly suppressing voting rights via Executive power.

165,000 Americans dead, and increasing, due to total lack of leadership and suppression of science and testing.

it's really been pissing me off too. my grandfather (RIP) worked essentially his entire adult life for the post office. he worked at one of the biggest sorting centers in the state, it was really cool to see as a kid. so many of his friends from the job were great people. the carrier at my grandparents house when I was a kid was practically family, he had that route for decades. my gf's mom (a vet) worked for the post office for some time after her active duty. this summer, I've spent a lot of time at the post office because I've been selling stuff on ebay. I've known the worker there for years as she's always handled my transactions. I made a simple "hey, thanks for all your hard work" and she had a bittersweet smile and said "you guys keep me employed, I hope it stays that way" . I can tell her morale has been getting worse as the summer goes on. it all just pisses me off.

allegro
08-15-2020, 03:30 PM
My late stepgrandmother worked for the USPS her entire career. My late stepdad worked there for a while, too. One of my best friends in the Detroit area was a mail carrier for the USPS for over 30 years. It's amazing how many people you know in your life who worked there at some point or another.

The USPS is one of the largest employers of minorities and veterans; it's a well-paying job, with benefits. Consider that and then consider that Trump is trying to remove the USPS, all while proclaiming that he has "done more for black people than any other President in history."

allegro
08-15-2020, 03:35 PM
EDIT: This is a decent take on his fascist tactics, and the article was written well before this whole attack on the USPS came up.
https://www.businessinsider.com/is-trump-fascist-jason-stanley-says-it-is-wrong-question-2020-7


Charles Davis: If fascism were to come to America, what do you think it would look like?

Jason Stanley: Fascism is based on ultranationalism, so it's always going to take the form of the country. There's a famous story from, perhaps apocryphal, where a Spanish fascist was asked to speak at an international fascism conference in the early '30s. And he said, "I'm not a fascist — I'm Spanish." Fascism, because it's based on nationalism, is always going to take the most sort of crude and tense form of the nation's traditional tropes. So German fascism, you know, you would have, you know, people with the most Baroque, traditional German name. They'd be dressed in very traditional, kitschy German outfits — traditional Bavarian outfit. So fascism in the United States would look like that: It would be wrapped in a Confederate flag; it would be wrapped in the vestiges of American ultranationalism, which is white nationalism.

Stanley: When you look at the United States, and the Confederacy is not itself fascist because fascism needs communism to contrast it with. The fascist ideologue is someone who is always painting his opponents, no matter how centrist they are, as a "commie." So fascism targets labor unions, and the Confederacy preceded that. But what we have in the United States is sort of a kind of ur-fascism, a pre-fascism in our history. It's a history that Hitler admired. Hitler admired the antebellum South. It was what he wanted to transform Ukraine into. He admired our immigration laws. He admired the murder — the genocide — of the Indigenous people. But he certainly looked to antebellum slavery as a model he sought to do in Eastern Europe.

Stanley: And what Trump is doing is he's pushing already existing fascist forces further. Does that mean that he himself is a fascist? It's not really helpful to talk that way; it's an emphasis on the wrong locus. What we need to do is remove the fascist forces. We need to address our prison system, address our over-policing problem, address our inequality, cut down the insider dealing between corporate elites and the government. And then we won't get people who can do this kind of thing.

Stanley: My worry is less with Trump and more with the Republican Party that enables all kinds of behavior. My concern is with members of the Republican Party that care more about the Republican Party than they care about a multiparty democracy. And that started with Newt Gingrich. Democracy is made up of conservatives and libertarians and socialists, and center-left people, and boring centrists, and all sorts of types. But no one should be more beholden to their political party than the system itself. And this fascist politics of representing all opposition as illegitimate is what is most concerning to me — one of the things that's most concerning about the future.



Interesting sections, for me.

allegro
08-15-2020, 06:41 PM
Scenes from the Proud Boy parade in Kalamazoo today.

https://twitter.com/TheRickyDavila/status/1294735188912562176?s=20


https://twitter.com/Cejae17/status/1294756303634673672?s=20

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 07:32 PM
Trump is talking about pardoning Snowden. Hate to say it, but that would strategically be a very good move right now.

NotoriousTIMP
08-15-2020, 07:50 PM
Trump is talking about pardoning Snowden. Hate to say it, but that would strategically be a very good move right now.

How so?

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 08:07 PM
How so?

It would galvanize right-leaning libertarians and the conspiracy theory base he's been stoking. It also appeals to hard left socialists who view snowden (and Assange in general) as an absolute hero. My opinion on him is conflicted, but I think he should go free.

It's not going to make me vote for Trump, but it'll make others.

Jinsai
08-15-2020, 08:13 PM
So, people who leak from his White House are traitors and should be tried for treason, but they guy who leaked ALL of America's intelligence operations to the world can be pardoned. It must be so exhausting to be a member of his cult. I'd get whiplash.

I think it's probably a bit worse to watch in this hopeless way while the cultists just cheer for every insane moment. I wanna make them sad and exhausted, and the best way to do that is to absolutely vote the living SHIT out of their ridiculous leader in November.

allegro
08-15-2020, 09:20 PM
He SHOULD be pardoning Reality Winner, who tested positive for Covid (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/21/us/reality-winner-texas-medical-prison-coronavirus/index.html).

But, instead, there's talk of him pardoning Snowden, who's being protected by Russians.

Wtf.

NotoriousTIMP
08-15-2020, 10:48 PM
It would galvanize right-leaning libertarians and the conspiracy theory base he's been stoking. It also appeals to hard left socialists who view snowden (and Assange in general) as an absolute hero. My opinion on him is conflicted, but I think he should go free.

It's not going to make me vote for Trump, but it'll make others.

Interesting, I didn't think it would have much impact on his base since most of them view Snowden as a traitor to this country. What right-wing conspiracy is there that involves snowden?

allegate
08-15-2020, 11:58 PM
https://twitter.com/comradebirb/status/1294666344684814337

I truly don't have a clue what tomorrow is going to bring.

and the current Trump news that google and twitter both thought I needed to know about? Fuck 'em, I don't care. I have no empathy for it.

bobbie solo
08-16-2020, 04:31 AM
https://twitter.com/gunnelswarren/status/1294314766572425219?s=21

This doesn't surprise me. Johnson is a total piece of shit. Establishment shill through & through. Says he doesn't hate Bernie all the time, but clearly does. He was suspended from MSNBC for a few months after going after the more notable public black women who were in Bernie's campaign with some nasty and unprovoked insults. I'd love to spit in that dude's smug face.

bobbie solo
08-16-2020, 04:40 AM
Okay. Great. So what is it you suggest we do, then? Are we down to firebombing already?

I mean, kinda. Look at what the aggressive protests of the last few months have already brought in terms of police reform. When people get in the streets and are not fucking around, it CAN get results. Not always, but it's always worth doing.

My point was simply to not look to current Dem leadership for help. They are completely feckless. There are individual representatives that we can trust though. Warren and a few others prompted the Postal Inspector General to investigate the new Postmaster, for example. Meanwhile Pelosi is playing pattycakes & "debating" what to do about ending the House recess. She's prolly too busy picking out which piece of linen she's gonna wear to cover her neck on her next public appearance & Schumer is measuring just how far down his nose he can wear his glasses without them falling off...ya know, the important stuff.

We all better plan on surround the White House within a few days of the election ending when Trump starts calling for lawsuits etc disputing the results. A few million people descending on DC for angry, riotous protests & we'll see how steely his reserve is. This is the mindset we all need to be in NOW, b/c this dude is signalling that he will not go quietly. He spends every day planning on how he can stay in after he loses. We need to be ready.

Aladdinsanity
08-16-2020, 04:45 AM
Honestly havenít heard from the guy ever since he was deplatformed for his misogynoir(istic?) attacks on Nina Turner and other leftist WOC. Itís probably bait more than anything, but itís incredible how low he estimates the intelligence of any reader whoíll eat this shit up. Bernieís long-standing and ardent defense of USPS is actually how I became aware of his existence in the first place (way before his 2016 presidential run).

allegate
08-16-2020, 10:15 AM
hadn't heard of the guy previously, so my bad.

allegate
08-16-2020, 11:29 AM
https://i.imgur.com/RNiNmSG.png

Jinsai
08-16-2020, 12:35 PM
Interesting, I didn't think it would have much impact on his base since most of them view Snowden as a traitor to this country. What right-wing conspiracy is there that involves snowden?

A lot of his supporters view Snowden as a key figure exposing the "deep state." His conspiracy theorist followers especially. Also, libertarians love him in general.

Also, a lot of his base just seems to like to disagree with any stance Obama held on anything.

NotoriousTIMP
08-16-2020, 12:57 PM
A lot of his supporters view Snowden as a key figure exposing the "deep state." His conspiracy theorist followers especially. Also, libertarians love him in general.

Also, a lot of his base just seems to like to disagree with any stance Obama held on anything.

oh yeah, his leaks were happening during Obama's time in office, right? This must mean Obama is apart of the deep state! ROFL

Jinsai
08-16-2020, 01:10 PM
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about Michael Cohen's book that's coming out. In the introduction, he claims he set up a back channel to communicate with Putin, that there is some actually golden shower stuff, and he knows where Trump's skeletons are buried because he buried them.

Why didn't he testify to any of these things when it could have mattered... I guess he wanted to sell a book, like Bolton.

allegro
08-16-2020, 02:47 PM
Why didn't he testify to any of these things when it could have mattered.
He did testify about a lot of it at the time. Not the golden shower stuff, I think because it just seemed like sour grapes bullshit in front of Congress.

Jinsai
08-16-2020, 03:14 PM
He did testify about a lot of it at the time. Not the golden shower stuff, I think because it just seemed like sour grapes bullshit in front of Congress.

It would lend credibility to that Steel Dossier though, though I'm assuming he has no proof. The claim that there was direct collusion with Russia/Putin is the more startling thing to me.

allegro
08-16-2020, 09:48 PM
Save the date! We’ll be there!

https://twitter.com/eleanor_rigby49/status/1295147474089172992?s=21

allegate
08-17-2020, 11:10 AM
that reminds me: we went up to Ft. Lewis yesterday to take care of some paperwork for my wife (not even getting into that debacle in this thread) and we pass the "Uncle Sam" billboard on the way up. If you don't know what that is, click here (https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/6002) and here (https://twitter.com/i5unclesam?s=20) (wish they still updated it) and here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Sam_billboard). Anyway, usually it pisses me off but going North I found out who won the Republican nomination (https://results.vote.wa.gov/results/current/Governor.html)* to run against Inslee**. I think Inslee has this one in the bag, guys. ANYWAY. The Sound-bound side of the sign said something about a Freedom Event coming up. Still not incendiary but also concerning, they picked a place I hadn't heard of for it.

*the voter's pamphlet this year was insanity, literal insanity: People were running as Pre2016 Republicans and also as Trump Republicans, never mind the descriptions of their position on issues. Also Tim Eyman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Eyman) - you look up douche canoe in the dictionary his picture is in there as definition d - didn't get even 7% of the vote. That makes me happy, but less than that would have been better.

**saw a giant window sticker yesterday that was in the shape of the state and said in big letters "Fuck Inslee". I see stuff like that and think about The Troubles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles). We were already on a low-level intensity version of them with the abortion clinic bombings and it just feels like it's going that way. Granted I forgot my tin foil at home this morning so big grain of salt but it pops in my head from time to time. also isn't it weird that there are fewer of these bombings right now when you'd expect more of these violent actions? Maybe the ATF is doing a better job of tracking these edgelords? oh wait, never mind.

I thought adderal was supposed to focus you...lol

allegate
08-17-2020, 04:40 PM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295454897689604097

:confused:

M1ke
08-17-2020, 06:32 PM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295454897689604097

:confused:
Cocaine is one hell of a drug.

sweeterthan
08-17-2020, 06:34 PM
gaslighting. nothing new.

allegro
08-17-2020, 08:24 PM
Especially since the capital of Israel has always been Jerusalem.

https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1295483079662997504?s=21

Jinsai
08-17-2020, 09:30 PM
I am honestly perplexed by the "Save the POST OFFICE!" tweet... is this really just gaslighting on a level I'm not prepped for yet?

M1ke
08-17-2020, 10:33 PM
I am honestly perplexed by the "Save the POST OFFICE!" tweet... is this really just gaslighting on a level I'm not prepped for yet?
He's always been a big supporter of the post office. Anyone who says that he wanted to dismantle it is fake news. Look at how crazy those democrats are, they're blaming the best president ever, who has actually saved the post office from crazy nancy pelosi for wanting to dismantle it.

Yes, it really is just gaslighting on a new level. You'll see similar things to this coming at some point.

Jinsai
08-17-2020, 10:42 PM
Holy shit! This "Trump sucks" speech from John Kasich during the DNC? Whoa, that was unexpected. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

allegro
08-18-2020, 09:12 AM
I am honestly perplexed by the "Save the POST OFFICE!" tweet... is this really just gaslighting on a level I'm not prepped for yet?

All signs indicate that he is attempting to privatize the Post Office. He believes that privatization will “save” it, that it is the only way to save it. (He is wrong, of course.) That’s why he installed DeJoy as Postmaster General; DeJoy is a rich investor. Republicans have also wanted to privatize the USPS for decades. I don’t know if they would’ve chosen NOW to do it. But Trump would, because it conveniently kills two birds with one stone.

Trump has accused the USPS of cutting sweetheart deals with Amazon, of being a “loser” organization, of “failing,” and he’s spent the last 4 years trying to dismantle it by privatizing segments of it via appointment of hand-picked people on the Board of Governors. His hatred of it is well-known.

Now he’s getting pushback from Republican lawmakers for going too far, for affecting senior’s and veteran’s prescriptions.

So he’s trying to save face. But don’t be fooled. He hates the fucking USPS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-privatization-plan-would-destroy-the-postal-service/2018/08/07/caaf9a24-99a2-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html

allegro
08-18-2020, 09:25 AM
Holy shit! This "Trump sucks" speech from John Kasich during the DNC? Whoa, that was unexpected. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
He was saying that same stuff in 2016, but nobody would listen to him. Even the liberal media channels were ignoring Kasich’s message. It was maddening at the time.

allegro
08-18-2020, 09:52 AM
Heh
https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1295535571251671040?s=21

Jinsai
08-18-2020, 03:12 PM
Heh
https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1295535571251671040?s=21

JESUS CHRIST make this stop

Jinsai
08-18-2020, 06:21 PM
this attempt to posthumously reclaim John McCain is in bad taste, even if I agree with what you're saying. You don't need the approval of the ghost of John McCain to win this.

onthewall2983
08-18-2020, 07:24 PM
It really pays to have a YouTube Premium account

allegro
08-19-2020, 11:36 AM
This is the wrong thread for that discussion.

This is the Trump thread where we bitch about all things Trump.

But anything related to the DNC etc.: There’s a thread for that.

Ugh.

tony.parente
08-19-2020, 11:57 AM
So, that giant ad-buy showed up last night. It took over the banner of YouTube and goes for another 75 hours or so. You can't dismiss these ads, so there they sit. And I have to ask, anti-Trump bias aside, this is the best they could do? These look so cheap, so low-budget, and this ad-buy was anything but inexpensive. The last two look reputable, I suppose, but still dementia and socialism, eh? Democrats ruined "their" cities? A scary picture of an old man? I'm not sure which of the remaining undecideds they'll sway with material like this.I'm sure these were focus grouped for effectiveness, but wow. It's encouraging that this is the arsenal at the moment.

I've been seeing these recently too. I'd love for Biden to go full petty and run a "What Happened to Donald" ad with him not being able to walk down the ramp and struggling to drink out of that water glass.

allegro
08-19-2020, 12:26 PM
https://twitter.com/kathygriffin/status/1073400561699979264?s=21

allegro
08-19-2020, 12:29 PM
^^ This guy worked with Trump for many years, says Trump snorts Adderral all the time and that Trump will totally fail a drug test.

And I totally believe him.

Here’s an interview. Ivanka is evil.

https://gregolear.substack.com/p/full-disclosure-an-interview-with

allegro
08-19-2020, 12:53 PM
https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1295528819550384130?s=21

Jinsai
08-19-2020, 12:58 PM
hahaha, EVERYWHERE I'm looking now is plastered with these shitty cheap Trump ads. Sorry man, you're not changing my mind. Joe Biden could personally shoot me in the kneecaps while Kamala Harris points and laughs at my misfortune, and I'd still vote for them.

allegro
08-19-2020, 01:38 PM
Is this "everywhere" you speak of on YouTube?

Because I avoid YouTube like the fucking plague.

Unless I'm looking at how to fix the dead spots on my lawn.

YouTube is the primary playground of Qanon (https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/youtube-is-trying-crack-down-on-qanon-videos-its-not-working/). And Qanon members are in Trump's circle, openly and brazenly (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/michael-flynn-qanon-video/index.html).

tony.parente
08-19-2020, 01:52 PM
Is this "everywhere" you speak of on YouTube?
Yup, Trump knows his fanbase for sure lol

Jinsai
08-19-2020, 02:03 PM
Is this "everywhere" you speak of on YouTube?

Because I avoid YouTube like the fucking plague.

Unless I'm looking at how to fix the dead spots on my lawn.

YouTube is the primary playground of Qanon (https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/youtube-is-trying-crack-down-on-qanon-videos-its-not-working/). And Qanon members are in Trump's circle, openly and brazenly (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/michael-flynn-qanon-video/index.html).

Oh yeah, I followed this weird rabbit hole stemming from an Amazon user review (for the Q book that debuted at number 2 on Amazon's charts) to some series of Q conspiracy videos. Hardly any thumbs down, and the CRAZIEST stuff being said w/ average 20k thumbs up per video. That might seem like nothing, but when you listen to this stuff, and how it's just kind of sitting there floating under the radar, it's creepy.

It's Youtube, general news pages, and FB plastered with this crap, but yes, primarily it's all over Youtube.

allegro
08-19-2020, 02:11 PM
Amazon, ugh, there's another Trump fan shithole.

Like the negative reviews for this book, "Caste: The Origins of our Discontents. (https://www.amazon.com/Caste-Origins-Discontents-Isabel-Wilkerson/dp/0593230256)"

It's Oprah's newest Book Club choice, but many others have been raving about it. Lawrence O'Donnell (MSNBC) was talking about how great this book is last week.

But if you read the negative reviews (https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/0593230256/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar), it's all a bunch of racists talking about how racism doesn't exist and how this author is racist. And people from India (ALLEGEDLY) talking about how the caste system is ONLY in India and this author has no right to write about anything related to castes, then brand it "hinduphobic."

This happens all the time; it's like they all send each other messages to go blast some book or product with negative, stupid reviews. Or, fake positive ones.

allegate
08-19-2020, 06:50 PM
https://twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1296109248468750337

https://media0.giphy.com/media/XyDByNPzosrQNRaVMP/giphy.gif

versusreality
08-19-2020, 07:00 PM
Trump essentially endorsed QAnon at tonight's presser

ltrandazzo
08-20-2020, 09:42 AM
Breaking on MSNBC, Steve Bannon has been indicted by federal prosecutors and is in custody.

1296441861570265095

sweeterthan
08-20-2020, 09:43 AM
Breaking on MSNBC, Steve Bannon has been indicted by federal prosecutors.

oooooooo damn for what?

Archive_Reports
08-20-2020, 09:48 AM
https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1296438759198687232

october_midnight
08-20-2020, 09:50 AM
Every single person that donated money into that horseshit should be launched into the sun anyway, so no loss of sleep here lol.

october_midnight
08-20-2020, 10:10 AM
Double post for the lulz.

https://scontent.fyyc5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/117755509_922099014952141_2845842115335296874_n.pn g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=fU-IhrjWvroAX-IUpUG&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc5-1.fna&oh=fc79638a2cab83fedff916b502002bfa&oe=5F63C171

cdm
08-20-2020, 10:20 AM
"A fool and his money..."

Archive_Reports
08-20-2020, 10:34 AM
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1296453565196767239

october_midnight
08-20-2020, 10:38 AM
He's gonna tweet so hard his phone will break lol.

allegate
08-20-2020, 10:47 AM
look, this much good news in one morning is a very weird thing right now. Can you spread it out over a couple hours?

cdm
08-20-2020, 10:48 AM
1296445655699918857

I realize this saga could end up going down a wide variety of avenues from case dropped, dismissed, acquitted, pardon, whatever the fuck...but for now it is about as perfect as you can get. Savor this moment. I also can't help but notice who is on the Grift Advisory Board...

https://webuildthewall.us/ourteam/

allegate
08-20-2020, 10:52 AM
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1296459576880123908

if there was every a news story that deserved the chef's kiss gif it's this one. holy shit.

Jinsai
08-20-2020, 12:09 PM
Amazon, ugh, there's another Trump fan shithole.

Like the negative reviews for this book, "Caste: The Origins of our Discontents. (https://www.amazon.com/Caste-Origins-Discontents-Isabel-Wilkerson/dp/0593230256)"

It's Oprah's newest Book Club choice, but many others have been raving about it. Lawrence O'Donnell (MSNBC) was talking about how great this book is last week.

But if you read the negative reviews (https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/0593230256/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar), it's all a bunch of racists talking about how racism doesn't exist and how this author is racist. And people from India (ALLEGEDLY) talking about how the caste system is ONLY in India and this author has no right to write about anything related to castes, then brand it "hinduphobic."

This happens all the time; it's like they all send each other messages to go blast some book or product with negative, stupid reviews. Or, fake positive ones.
oh yeah, look through the negative YouTube comments for anything from Trevor Noah. It’ll only take a minute before you find some dude saying he should “shut up and go back to Africa he’s not even an American and he thinks I want to hear him tell me blah blah”

it’s insane but here we are

edit: reading the news today again about how nobody can get Trumps tax returns... can we AT LEAST make this a qualifying LEGAL REQUIREMENT!?!? In the future if you can’t show your taxes fuck off. We’ve already discovered that our “system” of checks and balances was basically a “gentleman’s agreement”

BRoswell
08-20-2020, 02:10 PM
edit: reading the news today again about how nobody can get Trumps tax returns... can we AT LEAST make this a qualifying LEGAL REQUIREMENT!?!? In the future if you can’t show your taxes fuck off. We’ve already discovered that our “system” of checks and balances was basically a “gentleman’s agreement”

I was shocked when I learned that it wasn't a requirement. It absolutely should be. Also, I believe that anyone who runs for president should have to hold office for at least five years or more before they're allowed to run. The idea that anybody can run for president if they have enough money at their disposal is absurd.

allegate
08-20-2020, 05:37 PM
https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1296560172513538048

remarkable, he's still pushing the "rake your forests" bull.

https://twitter.com/KaivanShroff/status/1296489739625861120

bravo.

allegro
08-20-2020, 05:47 PM
I was shocked when I learned that it wasn't a requirement. It absolutely should be. Also, I believe that anyone who runs for president should have to hold office for at least five years or more before they're allowed to run. The idea that anybody can run for president if they have enough money at their disposal is absurd.

Personally, I believe that someone should at least hold a J.D. and should take an American Civics test and probably a Constitution test in order to run for President.

If you're going to Execute law, you should at least know the Constitution inside and out.

allegro
08-20-2020, 05:48 PM
https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1296560172513538048

Those are FEDERAL FORESTS!!!

WITH FEDERAL FOREST MANAGEMENT CREWS!!!

allegate
08-20-2020, 06:42 PM
https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1296521255592644608

Are we sure today isn't secretly Friday? Friday dumps are for bad news and this day has been full of bad news for Trump.

allegro
08-21-2020, 09:20 PM
Tweeting stuff about how the USPS was never meant to be profitable, that it’s the US Postal SERVICE, not Postal Business, and that the Constitution requires the Postal Service and Roads, and we don’t expect ROADS to be profitable ...

And I have a BUNCH of MAGA people liking and retweeting me and screaming about how politicians don’t care about the Constitution or the USPS or pensions.

This is the weirdest shit, it’s like the earth has shifted on its axis.


It appears that Trump made a big judgment error.

allegate
08-21-2020, 09:43 PM
You start fucking with grandma's medicine and you're going to pay the price.

Hell, I had some medicine take a week and a half to get here and they ship it from the same place I work. If I had known it would have taken so long I would have asked to pick it up instead.

allegro
08-21-2020, 09:49 PM
Well, and all that rural RED is Republican, and they rely heavily on mail and the USPS is also a HUGE employer.

This is also going to TOTALLY fuck up those rural voters who vote by mail:

USPS Is Telling Mail Carriers They Can't Sign as Witnesses for Voters (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akzqqj/usps-is-telling-mail-carriers-they-cant-sign-as-witnesses-for-voters)

versusreality
08-21-2020, 10:07 PM
There's still a lot of time before the election of course, but maybe, just maybe, this is the one thing Trump can't turn into a red vs blue battle like he usually loves to do.

Jinsai
08-21-2020, 10:47 PM
I wonder if he's going to do something REALLY crazy and desperate, like if on Election Day he announces that he is Q or something, and then he'll promise to give every citizen in a red state a billion dollars.

We'll all just be standing there saying "but... he can't do that..."

hellospaceboy
08-22-2020, 12:15 AM
I wonder if he's going to do something REALLY crazy and desperate, like if on Election Day he announces that he is Q or something, and then he'll promise to give every citizen in a red state a billion dollars.

We'll all just be standing there saying "but... he can't do that..."

I believe that the average voter doesn't who what or who Q is. It might seem big, but to the everyday person it's invisible.

allegate
08-22-2020, 01:42 AM
I believe that the average voter doesn't who what or who Q is. It might seem big, but to the everyday person it's invisible.

as someone who knows way more about it than the average person, man I really really hope this is true.
kept repeating that Trump only appreciates people who approve of him.


that's somehow worse!

Jinsai
08-22-2020, 01:51 AM
Those are FEDERAL FORESTS!!!

WITH FEDERAL FOREST MANAGEMENT CREWS!!!

I know... maybe he knows... his supporters probably don't... it's so exhausting.

allegate
08-22-2020, 12:21 PM
https://twitter.com/jeffvandermeer/status/1297164709469224960?s=20

allegro
08-22-2020, 05:08 PM
This needs to be spread EVERYWHERE on Facebook:

https://twitter.com/calliericewine/status/1296948878487371777?s=20

Jinsai
08-22-2020, 05:13 PM
It's so weird to look back on the rivalry between Trump and Graham.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPAvOaNpoiM

Lindsey Graham is a boot-licking fascist

Space Suicide
08-22-2020, 07:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-RNN0DyDcc

allegro
08-22-2020, 08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1297334790459457537?s=21

versusreality
08-22-2020, 09:07 PM
https://twitter.com/projectlincoln/status/1297334790459457537?s=21

wow...what's the source of this audio? is this recent?

allegro
08-22-2020, 09:17 PM
Dunno. But Mary Trump, his niece, confirms in her book that Maryanne thinks that about Donald. And worse.

botley
08-22-2020, 09:24 PM
WaPo has more of it (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/maryanne-trump-barry-secret-recordings/2020/08/22/30d457f4-e334-11ea-ade1-28daf1a5e919_story.html).

allegate
08-22-2020, 11:22 PM
https://twitter.com/georgeegirl/status/1296914850598105088?s=20

versusreality
08-23-2020, 05:44 AM
a calculated release, right before the RNC where his family will be praising him lol

I don't expect this to sway many people who were already planning to vote for him, but it's always good to hear those close to him confirm the fact that he's a terrible human being.

Jinsai
08-23-2020, 07:09 AM
That’s the problem; nothing will sway people... and to be fair, NOTHING is going to convince me to vote for Trump. I have to be fair there - my mind is made up. Joe Biden would have to do something so crazy, creative, and personally devastating to my world view to make me even consider not voting for him.

So to be fair, I get it. Nothing is gonna change their minds. I think that’s more or less where we are all at. I wish we could just vote NOW and settle this shit. Like, how many bigot white supremacist asshole ARE there, REALLY, in this country?

versusreality
08-23-2020, 07:41 AM
if we vote now and it takes "months" for the votes to be counted, Trump can have his wish and we'll know in November if his ass is out of there!!

Jinsai
08-23-2020, 02:15 PM
I'm going to mail in a ballot as early as I can, which should be pretty soon. If it isn't counted, oh well, I live in California, and if this state goes red, you know something fucked up just happened. I'm such a foregone conclusion, that if it goes any way other than the way I want it to go, it's absolute proof there's some crazy fraud going on. So, my state is blue, my vote doesn't matter, and yay!

sweeterthan
08-23-2020, 03:28 PM
iím doing early voting. no one is there in the beginning week. i think itís my best shot.

elevenism
08-23-2020, 04:20 PM
one thing that terrified me, again, and brought me again to the realization of how just fucking, bat shit crazy, "this can't happen here," all of this is, was trump talking about sending sheriffs and police and shit, as in, militant style, to polling places.

That's voter intimidation of the HIGHEST fucking degree. This is third world country dictator takeover type shit.

When i was a kid, we would argue about who got to be the USA on video games. It's never been perfect, but it used to mean a LOT to me.

allegate
08-23-2020, 04:37 PM
every time I see a truck with one (or two, they are getting bigger) American flags strapped to it I feel the same thing.

the flag shouldn't be fetishized like this.

NotoriousTIMP
08-23-2020, 04:54 PM
It’s interesting to me that, now, whenever I see someone wearing an American flag, I assume they’re a racist who thinks women belong in the home. This isn’t a sudden thing, it’s been gradual. But the process is definitely complete. When I see someone wearing the flag of my country I assume that they’re a person with whom I have nothing in common.

Could not agree with this statement enough....

Jinsai
08-23-2020, 04:56 PM
It’s interesting to me that, now, whenever I see someone wearing an American flag, I assume they’re a racist who thinks women belong in the home. This isn’t a sudden thing, it’s been gradual. But the process is definitely complete. When I see someone wearing the flag of my country I assume that they’re a person with whom I have nothing in common.

It's pretty crazy right?

Still, the rejection of the flag as a symbolic gesture isn't a new thing. Burning it, turning it upside down...

leo3375
08-23-2020, 04:59 PM
every time I see a truck with one (or two, they are getting bigger) American flags strapped to it I feel the same thing.

the flag shouldn't be fetishized like this.

There is someone in my neighborhood who drives a jacked-up pick-up truck with full-sized American, Gadsden ("Don't Tread on Me"), and TRUMP 2020 flags flying on flagpoles on the back of it. I have never seen the driver of it, but I am terrified of the driver. I worry that I am going to someday run afoul of him and he'll either follow me home, or pull out a gun and threaten me.

allegro
08-23-2020, 05:42 PM
I'm going to mail in a ballot as early as I can, which should be pretty soon. If it isn't counted, oh well, I live in California, and if this state goes red, you know something fucked up just happened. I'm such a foregone conclusion, that if it goes any way other than the way I want it to go, it's absolute proof there's some crazy fraud going on. So, my state is blue, my vote doesn't matter, and yay!

Or maybe use a drop-box for your mail-in ballot? (https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voters-choice-act/vca-voting-locations/). See also (https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voter-registration/vote-mail/#vote-by-mail).

Jinsai
08-24-2020, 12:59 AM
Kellyanne Conway on her way out by the end of the month... wasn’t she a planned speaker at the RNC?

edit... yup, she was scheduled to speak Tuesday. Maybe she still will. If we need to make it a little more awkward, her husband can join her on stage.

allegro
08-24-2020, 02:36 AM
Kellyanne Conway on her way out by the end of the month... wasn’t she a planned speaker at the RNC?

edit... yup, she was scheduled to speak Tuesday. Maybe she still will. If we need to make it a little more awkward, her husband can join her on stage.

George quit the Lincoln Project, too.

Their 15-yr-old daughter, Claudia, had been totally melting down on Twitter. It was all pretty awful. They all quit Twitter.

versusreality
08-24-2020, 05:50 AM
I can only imagine Trump will bring in someone even WORSE to replace her.

Claudia Conway is seeking emancipation. she has been posting all summer that she's a proud liberal and calling her mom out on things like BLM. even though she took a break from Twitter, she posted on TikTok last night.

allegro
08-24-2020, 08:05 AM
The kid lives in an $8 million dollar 15,000-square-foot mansion.

I don’t think she fully understands what emancipation really means, and that it would put her out on her own, literally. In a pandemic, which a judge is not likely to grant right now.

Kellyanne Conway isn’t even doing anything at the White House.

Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner are the masterminds. KAC was probably going to be let go ages ago but Trump hates George Conway and kept KAC just to piss off George.

ltrandazzo
08-24-2020, 08:07 AM
Some of my favorites -

1295330833348341760

1295329391476649984

1297352852021665792

1297353380906573826

versusreality
08-24-2020, 09:11 AM
Miller and Kushner are evil vampires. Kushner has a lot of hate here in the local community in NJ because of some hyper approaches to gentrification with his development company. It's awful- I despise him.

allegro
08-24-2020, 09:30 AM
The Conways should have put their phones down and Kellyanne should have done this ages ago. Her daughter started showing signs of trouble long ago, per the daughter. But fame and money were more important.

Look, it’s one thing if you have a mom like mine or Sesquipedalism - working moms putting in 12-14 hours per day just to feed the kids.

But with no mom or dad to the kids so you can have materialistic goods and fame? Well, the kid just handed them their asses on why that don’t always work out so well. Kids aren’t accessories. They require attention. The kid said she was “best friends” with her mom, despite the differences. All of this is clearly a cry for help from the kid.

I wasn’t even following the kid; I’d blocked her, because I felt it was highly inappropriate for someone my age to be following a kid her age who’d been banned from Twitter use by her parents due to her high exposure level and the dangerous aspects. But it ended up in my feed, anyway. Along with the reprehensible #runclaudiarun.

allegro
08-24-2020, 10:39 AM
Trump hasn’t said anything yet about Putin’s opposition being poisoned? No? Really? Hmmmmm ...

Followed this over the weekend, was amazing they were able to get him out and airlifted to Berlin. Praying for his recovery.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1297903996422815744?s=21

onthewall2983
08-24-2020, 11:36 AM
Did he even say anything about his brother dying?

Jon
08-24-2020, 11:57 AM
There is someone in my neighborhood who drives a jacked-up pick-up truck with full-sized American, Gadsden ("Don't Tread on Me"), and TRUMP 2020 flags flying on flagpoles on the back of it. I have never seen the driver of it, but I am terrified of the driver. I worry that I am going to someday run afoul of him and he'll either follow me home, or pull out a gun and threaten me.

They are just as scared as you are. Guarantee they own a union jack that they're weary of flying. Bonus guarantee if it's an F-250.

allegate
08-24-2020, 11:59 AM
Did he even say anything about his brother dying?
yes, and it was a typically rambling Trump statement/phone call to Fox & Friends: https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-interview-fox-and-friends-august-17-2020

(side note, that's an interesting site vis-ŗ-vis layout and the information it provides.)

Someone else wrote this for him: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-passing-robert-trump/

Jinsai
08-24-2020, 12:00 PM
I wasn’t even following the kid; I’d blocked her, because I felt it was highly inappropriate for someone my age to be following a kid her age who’d been banned from Twitter use by her parents due to her high exposure level and the dangerous aspects. But it ended up in my feed, anyway. Along with the reprehensible #runclaudiarun.

Everything is horrible now... good luck avoiding it.

This isn't verbatim, but had an argument with someone recently where they asserted that "it doesn't matter how you feel about anything, it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong. If you care about that, you're going to lose. Unless your primary goal is winning, you are going to lose in politics." This person also felt that it was great that the democrats were so easily distracted by moral bitching, and that Republicans were smart enough to not do things like throw Al Franken under the bus. It was all about a strategic thing, like a board game. It was like I was talking to this fucking person like "what's the best strategy to win in Monopoly?"

He literally spelled it out: We laugh at you while you march and parade and do stuff that you think impacts the system. We just laugh and laugh and then the vote overturns the popular one because the system's stupid enough to be exploited by a numbers game... and then the president can do whatever he wants because our checks and balances are a gentleman's agreement.

cdm
08-24-2020, 12:06 PM
yes, and it was a typically rambling Trump statement/phone call to Fox & Friends: https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-interview-fox-and-friends-august-17-2020

(side note, that's an interesting site vis-ŗ-vis layout and the information it provides.)

Someone else wrote this for him: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-passing-robert-trump/

Side note: His brother's funeral was held in the East Room of the White House because "I think he'd be greatly honored. He loves our country. He loved our country so much...."

Jinsai
08-24-2020, 12:15 PM
Side note: His brother's funeral was held in the East Room of the White House because "I think he'd be greatly honored. He loves our country. He loved our country so much...."

He wants to establish a monarchy... as if his title warrants a "national funeral" for his brother or something by extension of his presidency. I don't have any hard feelings for him really... RIP. But it doesn't need to happen with a White House funeral. This is one of those moments that politicians and sociopaths cling to, this moment where "it's wrong to criticize what I'm doing" and then weaponize it. Like "oh don't disrespect the troops, because then you hate our military and so therefore we should be able to do whatever we want militarily, because god bless america and our military might... and don't say that Trump is politicizing his brother's death... that would undermine all the times you've been sad about people dying. C'mon, just think about how awful you'd feel if someone accused you of doing that... if you were president... and... whatever"

allegro
08-24-2020, 02:41 PM
I dunno, I remember watching Trisha Nixon’s Rose Garden wedding on TV when I was a kid, so I didn’t think of this Rob Trump funeral as that big of a deal. It was private, they put the stiff in the East Room for a few hours and it made it easier for Trump to avoid having to go to an actual funeral home during Covid. Notwithstanding any of this “Rob would be honored” shit (because he’s DEAD). And the Trump family has to pay for stuff like this.


This isn't verbatim, but had an argument with someone recently where they asserted that "it doesn't matter how you feel about anything, it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong. If you care about that, you're going to lose. Unless your primary goal is winning, you are going to lose in politics." This person also felt that it was great that the democrats were so easily distracted by moral bitching, and that Republicans were smart enough to not do things like throw Al Franken under the bus. It was all about a strategic thing, like a board game. It was like I was talking to this fucking person like "what's the best strategy to win in Monopoly?"
It’s true, really.

The reality is that 50% of eligible voters don’t vote.

And the vast majority of eligible voters don’t use social media, or at least don’t pay enough attention to really notice anything political on it.

The vast majority of eligible voters aren’t going to be informed by, let alone swayed by, Twitter or Facebook, because they don’t even use either one.

Claudia Conway screaming into the ether about BLM won’t change one god damned thing.

My Twitter account got locked down and I’m in Twitter jail for 12 hours today for “spreading false information about an election.”

Except I didn’t tweet any original content regarding same; I’d only retweeted a few well-known news reporters. So some angry MAGAs reported me to Twitter, and Twitter’s algorithms lock down without analyzing. Likely because I reported Trump for one of HIS shitty “mail fraud” tweets.

It’s all just cat and mouse bullshit that’s meaningless.

I give up. I’m done “resisting.” I’m going back to reading books and avoiding migraines.

Jinsai
08-24-2020, 03:37 PM
I give up. I’m done “resisting.” I’m going back to reading books and avoiding migraines.

Well, I'll be right there with you in three months if we lose this thing... but until then

cdm
08-24-2020, 03:56 PM
...I didn’t think of this Rob Trump funeral as that big of a deal.

I mostly agree with this so long as the family truly pays for whatever it cost to host the ceremony. But it'll probably go on the long laundry list of shit they say is out-of-pocket but is actually picked up by the taxpayer.

In the end, it was all performative because he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself.

1296944031264649216

allegro
08-24-2020, 05:42 PM
I mostly agree with this so long as the family truly pays for whatever it cost to host the ceremony.

Presidents pay out-of-pocket for WAY more stuff that happens in the White House than I ever realized.

They receive a BILL for all private functions.

They get a salary and the staff comes with the house but I guess they pay for nearly ALL the food and stuff for private functions PLUS any extra staff necessary. So if he has a funeral, he pays for a casket, all funeral-related expenses, and even the food served at lunch if there is one.

Here’s one article: https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/president-pay-groceries/

allegro
08-24-2020, 05:46 PM
Well, I'll be right there with you in three months if we lose this thing... but until then

I have my yard sign, ordered another one when Harris was announced (as an update), I’m voting, but there’s nothing more I can do. I’m pulling way back. I can’t even plan an escape to another country if he wins. Because Covid. So, I’m checking out in my head. My anxiety levels are just too high, this government just sucks right now. I hate too many Americans right now.

allegate
08-24-2020, 08:25 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1298025781310955520

anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.

M1ke
08-24-2020, 10:19 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1298025781310955520

anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.

What could anyone possibly drop that would matter?

Trump openly admitted to entering the dressing room at his Miss Teen USA pageants knowing that there would be naked underage girls in there. He's been proven to have colluded with Russia to win the last election. He's killed millions of Americans. He's holding children in concentration camps apart from their families. He admitted to sexual assault before the last election. He's been connected to Epstein multiple times and wished Maxwell well. He didn't build his wall. He's trying to prevent voting by dismantling the post office. He's pushing snake-oil cures for covid-19. He's called white supremacists very fine people. He cut funding to the WHO during a global pandemic. His election campaign people was filled with convicted felons. He almost started world war 3. He tried to get the Ukrainian president to investigate Hunter Biden to help his campaign by withholding military aid. He fired Comey because Comey was investigating him for his campaign collusion with Russia. He passed sweeping tax changes that will help the rich and bankrupt everyone else. He's an enemy of the free press. He promotes dangerous conspiracy theories. He's bragging about passing basic cognitive tests. He gave positions of power to his children instead of people who know what they're doing. He wanted to trade puerto rico for greenland. He tried to ban Muslims from entering the country. He commuted Roger Stone's sentence. He tear gassed protesters for a photo op. He chose to delay testing at Kushners recommendation because they thought the pandemic would hit democratic states harder and be politically advantageous. He urged protesters to revolt against social distancing measures enacted by Democrats. And there's probably even more that I'm just forgetting for some reason.

There is nothing that could be dropped that could be worse than what's already out there.

Jinsai
08-25-2020, 12:17 AM
pretty much... Trump could "decloak" as Hitler re-incarnate and it wouldn't matter!! AND, the most fucked up part is, Biden could pull his fleshmask off and reveal that he's some lizard demon thing or whatever just fucking kill me...

...and I'd still crawl through shards of broken glass to vote for him!

The point is, I don't believe ANYONE who says they're undecided at this point. These fucking people just want attention.
EVERYONE is decided.

allegro
08-25-2020, 12:44 AM
https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1298025781310955520

anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.
No Republican thinks Cohen is credible enough to care.

Jinsai
08-25-2020, 08:06 AM
Don’t know why we should trust him either... he had a chance to tell the truth under oath when it mattered. Instead he showed pretty much nothing, dropped “bombshells” like “Trump is racist!” and generally wasted everyone’s time because he wanted to sell his book. It doesn’t matter whose side he’s on, Cohen is scum... and yes that’s EXACTLY the kind of asshole Trump would hire to be his fixer. There’s no redemption arc for him.

versusreality
08-25-2020, 08:17 AM
"(He said) that men would "parachute in here on us," "shoot some of our innocent babies," and "they'll torture our children, they'll torture some of our people here, they'll torture our seniors."

A quote from Jim Jones audio recording as he was committing mass murder to his followers...doesn't sound much different from Trump/Republicans...it's actually eerie

allegro
08-25-2020, 03:44 PM
Don’t know why we should trust him either.
Democrats and Trump-haters are already NOT voting for Trump, so nothing Cohen says is going to tell them anything they don't already know.

Point being that Cohen is just an echo chamber for Democrats, and also a possible source of $$ - which he SHOULDN'T BE, because NOBODY should forget that Cohen is a shitty attorney, a piece of shit, a guy who willingly protected Trump and committed illegal and fraudulent acts to protect and enable Trump.

Just because Cohen is now dropped dime on Trump doesn't make Cohen a "good guy."

Cohen is trying to drum up publicity to "drop something big" just to save his own ass and get $$ for his family before he goes back into prison and won't be able to earn any money, again.

There is nothing he can "drop" that will mean anything to anyone, because he is a useless, unreliable source.

allegro
08-25-2020, 03:47 PM
I know that seems like the case, because how could it not be the case, but you're wrong. The truth is, a lot of people check in or out for about a week before each election.

I think this woman is correct (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944).

Jinsai
08-25-2020, 04:07 PM
There is nothing he can "drop" that will mean anything to anyone, because he is a useless, unreliable source.

Unless he has REAL receipts for these skeletons, then it might actually matter. If it's just up to "his word" and whatever he writes in this book, yes, of course that's useless, and of course, nobody should give him money for anything.

allegro
08-25-2020, 04:19 PM
Unless he has REAL receipts for these skeletons, then it might actually matter. If it's just up to "his word" and whatever he writes in this book, yes, of course that's useless, and of course, nobody should give him money for anything.

Nobody is going to believe him; they didn't believe him when he testified before Congress.

Trump could eat a baby and Trump voters won't care; they're voting for Trump the leader and what they can do for him, not Trump the guy.

NotoriousTIMP
08-25-2020, 08:05 PM
"(He said) that men would "parachute in here on us," "shoot some of our innocent babies," and "they'll torture our children, they'll torture some of our people here, they'll torture our seniors."

A quote from Jim Jones audio recording as he was committing mass murder to his followers...doesn't sound much different from Trump/Republicans...it's actually eerie

My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.

sweeterthan
08-25-2020, 08:11 PM
My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.

holy shit! iím so sorry he had to deal with that. i find it both horrifying and intriguing that he experience it like that. iíve seen some stuff on tv but iím sure it in no way compares to being there.

versusreality
08-25-2020, 09:09 PM
My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.

that is horrible to hear, I'm sorry to hear that. having listened to the tape and saw the NBC footage...it legit forever tainted my mind. I don't even want to imagine being there for the after math in real life...

NotoriousTIMP
08-25-2020, 10:38 PM
I never got my dad to talk about it (was too worried about PTSD) but I would have liked to ask a few questions just to fill my curiosity.

allegro
08-25-2020, 11:31 PM
I never got my dad to talk about it (was too worried about PTSD) but I would have liked to ask a few questions just to fill my curiosity.

I had a fascination with that for a while, read a ton about it. Truly awful. I feel bad for people like your dad. Total mess.

allegate
08-28-2020, 12:42 PM
Jim Gaffigan is going off today.

https://twitter.com/JimGaffigan/status/1299196054274011136

https://twitter.com/michaelianblack/status/1299303361074860033

allegro
08-28-2020, 01:58 PM
Pope John Paul II covered up literally thousands of priests who were sexually abusing children, yet he was canonized. He’s the “real” Catholic? Fuck you, Lou Holz.

allegro
08-30-2020, 02:01 AM
Green screen dress, big mistake

https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1299174942882365441?s=21

allegro
08-31-2020, 01:47 PM
We Don’t Know How to Warn You Any Harder. America is Dying. (https://eand.co/we-dont-know-how-to-warn-you-any-harder-america-is-dying-26ff80912391?gi=ef91c2f7cc51)


We Survivors of Authoritarianism Have a Message America Needs to Hear: This is Exactly How it Happens, and It’s Happening Here.

Right about now, something terrible is happening in America. Society is one tiny step away from the final collapse of democracy, at the hands of a true authoritarian, and his fanatics. Meanwhile, America’s silent majority is still slumbering at the depth and gravity of the threat.

I know that strikes many of you as somehow wrong. So let me challenge you for a moment. How much experience do you really have with authoritarianism? Any? If you’re a “real” American, you have precisely none.

Take it from us survivors and scholars of authoritarianism. This is exactly how it happens. The situation could not — could not — be any worse. The odds are now very much against American democracy surviving.

If you don’t believe me, ask a friend. I invite everyone who’s lived under authoritarianism to comment. Those of us how have?
We survivors of authoritarianism have a terrible, terrible foreboding, because we are experiencing something we should never do: deja vu. Our parents fled from collapsing societies to America. And here, now, in a grim and eerie repeat of history, we see the scenes of our childhoods played out all over again. Only now, in the land that we came to. We see the stories our parents recounted to us happening before our eyes, only this time, in the place they brought us to, to escape from all those horrors, abuses, and depredations.

We survivors are experiencing this terrible feeling of deja vu right now as a group, as a class. We talk about it, how eerie and grim this sense of deja vu is. It’s happening all over again! Do you remember this part of your childhood? When the armed men roamed the streets? When the secret police disappeared opponents? When the fascist masses united — and that was enough to destroy democracy for good? We talk about it, believe me — but you don’t hear it because we have no real voice. America’s pundits are named Chris and Jake and Tucker. They are not named Eduardo and Ravi and Xiao and Umair. But Chris and Jake and Tucker can’t help you now. They don’t know what the hell they’re dealing with. They literally have no idea because they have no experience whatsoever.

The only people who do right now in America are us survivors. Let me remind you, by the way, what happens we speak out: we lose whatever credibility and status we have. The moment I began to warn of this, I lost my column in HBR, my cable news appearances, and so forth. Don’t cry for me. Understand me, my friend, know me. If we had a voice, we survivors, we would be warning you as loudly and strongly as we possibly could.

All of us. We would say:

This is not a joke. This is not a drill. When we survivors of authoritarianism experience, as a group, a class, a cohort, something that we never, ever should — the horrific deja vu that the horrors of our childhoods, that our parents knew, are happening, all over again, here, something is much, much more wrong than you know.

Now let me make all the above concrete. I am going to use the example of Kenosha to draw out things that perhaps only we survivors can see — or at least that we see first and easiest. Things that the “real” American is either still playing dumb about, or is still mum about, and both equate to the same thing: silence, which is complicity, in times like these.

When we look at Kenosha, we survivors, and you “real” Americans, do we see the same thing? Do we feel the same gravity, pain, urgency? You will have to tell me. Here is what I see, that I’m 100% sure every survivor sees — but I doubt “real” Americans fully see yet.

What happened there? A young man was radicalized by the movement that fascist President led. The fascist President spoke of hated minorities as animals and vermin. He led his faithful in chants of hate, moments that built the bond of the tribe between them. Soon enough, that President was speaking of peaceful protesters as anarchists and revolutionaries and seditionaries. And the question that the fascist raises was left hanging in the air. “My people, my flock — what do we do with traitors?”

The answer, to a young man like that, is what it was in Nazi Germany, in the Islamic World, in every fascist collapse since time began. We kill them. So off he went with his rifle — and killed innocent people. Perfectly innocent people.

There is a crucial lesson there. America already has an ISIS, a Taliban, an SS waiting to be born. A group of young men willing to do violence at the drop of a hat, because they’ve been brainwashed into hating. The demagogue has blamed hated minorities and advocates of democracy and peace for those young men’s stunted life chances, and they believe him. That’s exactly what an ISIS is, what a Taliban is, what an SS is. The only thing left to do by an authoritarian is to formalize it.

But when radicalized young men are killing people they have been taught to hate by demagogues right in the open, on the streets — a society has reached the beginnings of sectarian violence, the kind familiar in the Islamic world, and is at the end of democracy’s road.

How did the state’s law enforcement respond? In America, they’re simply called “the police.” They let him do it, and then they protected him. The killer was only brought to justice because there was a national outcry after the act was caught on video. If none of that had happened, he probably would never have been. The police were forced to act, in other words.

What do we survivors see in that tiny parable? Crucial institutions have already been captured by the extremist factions who stand against democracy. Do all those cops think of themselves as fascists? Of course they don’t. So what? Mullahs don’t think of themselves as hate preachers, either. What else do you call someone who gives a violent young man with a gun a free pass to kill people, though? Someone who tries to shield him after the murder? A good and decent person?

The police in America might not all think they are fascists. Certainly, not all of them are. But what is certain is that some significant number of them are captured. They are sympathetic to the forces which are now attacking democracy. They prioritize those forces over democracy, freedom, peace, justice.

Let me give you an example. My friend Ben is a London copper. He abhors the violence in America. His jaw is dropped by it. He rejects carrying a gun, or even a taser. Do you see how big the gap, the problem is?

If the police force is captured by the extremists — at least many police forces, it seems, then harder questions are raised. What about the armed forces?

They’re democracy’s last line of protection. What happens when a Trump, a Saddam, a Gaddafi, refuses to leave office? The military must remove them — or if it doesn’t, it becomes their plaything. That game of brinksmanship is exactly how Saddams and Gaddafis capture militaries. By daring them to, and when they don’t — bang! — their back is broken.

That’s another thing we survivors see very clearly right now, but “real” Americans might not. The capture of a police force is not just the capture of a police force. It threatens the whole fabric of a democracy. The monopoly on violence that the people’s agents should have is being transferred to the authoritarian. Why else would police forces beat people on the streets? Give hateful young men a free pass to kill people?

It all points to the beginnings of true violence, not just at the hands of the radicals — but aided and abetted by the state. That is the point at which a democracy finishes collapsing — and never comes back. Because once the state is free to do real violence — who is going to protest? Speak out? Even criticize?

Let me make that point crystal clear, by continuing my example. What happened next in Kenosha?

Trump threatened to send in “federal agents” — and then he did. Which “federal agents”? The ones he used just a few weeks ago, in Portland. The “Homeland Security” force which has become the precise equivalent of his Irani Republican Guard or SS: a paramilitary which isn’t accountable to the people, any democratic institution, wears no badges, can’t be identified, and is controlled only by the authoritarian, at his discretion and whim.

What did Trump’s stormtroopers do in Kenosha? They disappeared people, just like in Portland. They simply picked groups of people, roared up in unmarked cars, and…abducted them. To where? To jails. For what reason? For no reason — there were no warrants involved, no due process, no Constitutionality whatsoever. People were simply made to vanish. Like in the Soviet Union. Like in Saddam’s Iraq or Gaddafi’s Libya. Like in Nazi Germany.

Again, the “real” American will think I’m exaggerating at this point, so let me say it again. This is what more or less every survivor of authoritarianism thinks, not just me. The only people who don’t think, who still dismiss these comparisons as alarmist are the ones who have never experienced authoritarianism. Those of us who have? We know that abductions by paramilitaries in unmarked cars at the whim of a tyrant are really, really bad.

Why? They point to the complete breakdown of the rule of law. The rule of law only means something when an authoritarian can’t simply disappear people from the streets, ordering his paramilitary to do it, ignoring the constitution, discarding due process — with total impunity. But all that is exactly what Trump can do.

He now has the nascent powers of a Gaddafi or a Saddam. No, I’m not kidding. He doesn’t have the full powers, to be sure — but he certainly has the beginnings of them. Maybe he can’t have people tortured in jail yet — but he can have almost anyone he likes in America picked up and disappeared.

So how far away do you think even worse abuses of power are? When a tyrant can have almost anyone in a country they like disappeared, how far away do you really think torture is? Rape? Murder? I’m not being hyperbolic. I’m trying to speak to you like an adult. Will you listen?

Let me finish my story of Kenosha, then, before the reality of authoritarianism overwhelms us both.

What happened next?

Nothing.

There was a deafening silence. America’s intellectuals and pundits didn’t say authoritarianism, didn’t say fascism — again. America’s good cops didn’t exactly stand up for democracy. America’s generals didn’t assure the nation they’d intervene. America’s people didn’t wake up.

What happened after an authoritarian showed he had the power to have people disappeared — people who protested the killing of innocents which itself was inspired by the authoritarian, at the hands of a young radicalized man — was…

Nothing.

People didn’t pour into the streets of the capitol, by the millions. The nation’s intellectuals and columnists didn’t call for the head of state’s resignation. The opposition didn’t immediately start a global movement to observe these abuses of power.

Nothing happened.

And so the predictable is really what happened.

The authoritarian’s numbers rose in the polls. That is because there is always some significant number of people who respond to violence, brutality, hate. Unless they are reminded, sternly, forcefully, that there is something better. That this is not who we must be. That this is the wrong path.

In America, that is not happening. Not nearly enough to fight authoritarianism, and win. That’s not my opinion: it’s a factual reality. Trump is rising in the polls, and is now at the point where the slightest secret hate vote — all those polite soccer moms who say they’d never vote for him, and then do, in the heat of the voting booth — will give him an outright victory. He won’t even have to contest a loss, as he’s sure to do. He will just win.

And then American democracy will be over.

Because the last and final thing we survivors of democracy know is that truly terrible things are on the way then. Yes, really. Men who can put kids in cages and radicalize younger men to do real violence? They don’t want you to live in peace, freedom, harmony, and goodness. They want you to live in fear, despair, and terror. And they will begin using extreme violence to do it.

A second Trump term? It will involve all of the following. Shock troops on the streets. Disappearances becoming everyday events.

Critics and dissidents being tortured in hidden jails. Expression and thought being monitored for any negative portrayal of the fascists. Hated minorities institutionally dehumanized and resegregated. It will involve levels of such horrific violence and brutality that Americans still cannot understand or grasp precisely because they have been lucky enough to have never yet personally experienced them.

So leave it to us. We survivors. We dispossessed ones. The exiles and orphans of modernity. The ones who have never felt like we belonged. The gift we always could have given you was to protect you from this. But even the good Americans never gave us room as true equals in their promised land. That is how America got here. By never letting us in, even though we were here. We could have told you how it happens, and what “it” means.

But it is not too late to listen to us.

This is your last chance to hear our warning.

Jinsai
08-31-2020, 09:21 PM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but Trump's defending the Kanosha shooter.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/31/trump-defends-kenosha-gunman-406377

versusreality
08-31-2020, 09:29 PM
funny how the "law and order" president won't say that Rittenhouse having that gun as a minor was illegal. and then defends him.

sweeterthan
08-31-2020, 09:37 PM
itís bullshit. he wanted to shoot someone. his intent is clear. i hate everything about this kid and what he represents. heís everything trump wants. the conservatives who are lapping it up and calling him a hero are sick.

Wretchedest
08-31-2020, 11:40 PM
Wait til he inevitably pardons him

Jinsai
09-01-2020, 11:58 AM
Trump, to the mayor of Portland: "He has to call... All they have to do is call, and the trouble will end."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM7zYIj9uV0

snaapz
09-01-2020, 01:00 PM
I will admit I, Canadian, flip flop on how I feel about Trump and Biden.

On one hand I hear things like Trump has and is bringing work back to USA, such as recently helping Maine by eliminating a tariff on lobster exports. Where as Biden is shown to have made changes which had "moved 1 out of 6 manufacturing jobs out of the USA". As a Canadian I often hear of new tariffs on Canadian goods, which seems like it would encourage American businesses to consider buying local metals, lumber, milk.... Though he is open to accepting Canadian medication in an effort to lower med costs.

Then on the other hand it's apparent that Trump has no sympathy for many of today's issues and is a disgrace.

It seems like everyone hates Trump, but then there is so much fear that he will get enough votes to win the upcoming election; meaning people do like him?

Is Trump really that bad of a president? My own mother won't even say his name lol, she just says #45.

BRoswell
09-01-2020, 01:35 PM
Then on the other hand it's apparent that Trump has no sympathy for many of today's issues and is a disgrace.


Is Trump really that bad of a president?

I think you just answered your own question.

allegro
09-01-2020, 05:14 PM
Where as Biden is shown to have made changes which had "moved 1 out of 6 manufacturing jobs out of the USA".

Where is that "shown?" Where is Biden personally responsible for something like that?

You know who really started the process of moving manufacturing jobs out of the USA?

This guy:

https://cdn.britannica.com/12/3712-050-88AAD2A8/Ronald-Reagan.jpg

allegro
09-01-2020, 05:15 PM
See also:

https://youtu.be/Tp1T7kPEdDY

allegate
09-02-2020, 12:32 AM
https://i.imgur.com/3IBgyHX.png

GulDukat
09-02-2020, 12:41 AM
Is Trump really that bad of a president?

Yup.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 04:14 AM
The problem is capitalism; Biden is no alternative; Sanders was no alternative; elections are no alternative.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 08:33 AM
The problem is capitalism; Biden is no alternative; Sanders was no alternative; elections are no alternative.

Facebook and Twitter just shut down a bunch of Kremlin-backed social media accounts with associated fake news sites, and what you’re saying here aligns almost exactly with one of the bullshit angles they’ve been pushing to steer people away from voting for Biden.

The central problem right now is fascism, not capitalism, and Biden is the alternative, like it or not, call it what you want.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 08:37 AM
Facebook and Twitter just shut down a bunch of Kremlin-backed social media accounts with associated fake news sites, and what you’re saying here aligns almost exactly with one of the bullshit angles they’ve been pushing to steer people away from voting for Biden.

The central problem right now is fascism, not capitalism, and Biden is the alternative, like it or not, call it what you want.

Fascism is just a kind of capitalism, and American liberalism has added constructively to the American fascist project (like with the 1994 Biden-Clinton crime bill). The Democratic Party is an essential, functional part of American fascism.

M1ke
09-02-2020, 08:50 AM
Fascism is just a kind of capitalism, and American liberalism has added constructively to the American fascist project (like with the 1994 Biden-Clinton crime bill). The Democratic Party is an essential, functional part of American fascism.

No.....no it's really not.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 08:56 AM
No.....no it's really not.

I mean, you could try to demonstrate how the Democratic Party isn't guilty of expanding the American carceral State (we know it is), or unwarranted governmental surveillance, or the War on Terror, or corporate bailouts, etc. etc.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 09:14 AM
this is hopeless... ok, fine, we have a president encouraging his followers to attack protesters, has badge-less troops shoving peaceful protesters into unmarked vehicles and escorting them to who-knows-where, sows distrust in established outlets that people rely upon to get news and information, attacks any government institution that gets in his way, is actively attacking any institutions or movements that he views as a threat to his continued rule, riles up his supporters against "the other." He lies despite obvious evidence to the contrary, and continues repeating those lies. He's flagrantly trying to suppress the vote in plain sight...

But whatever... you say "elections are no alternative." OK, great, so WHAT is?

M1ke
09-02-2020, 09:33 AM
I mean, you could try to demonstrate how the Democratic Party isn't guilty of expanding the American carceral State (we know it is), or unwarranted governmental surveillance, or the War on Terror, or corporate bailouts, etc. etc.

Why would I waste my time debating with you?

The way you've introduced yourself to this thread leads me to believe it would be nothing but a frustrating experience. Most Trump supporters don't care about the things they actually argue for, they only care about "owning the libs", and you've posted nothing that would suggest that's not your goal.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 09:36 AM
Why would I waste my time debating with you?

The way you've introduced yourself to this thread leads me to believe it would be nothing but a frustrating experience. Most Trump supporters don't care about the things they actually argue for, they only care about "owning the libs", and you've posted nothing that would suggest that's not your goal.

"Trump supporters"

Uh. I'm a left-communist ala Antonie Pannekoek.

versusreality
09-02-2020, 10:10 AM
ah, got it. the same thing that the fascist Jim Jones practiced.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 10:12 AM
ah, got it. the same thing that the fascist Jim Jones practiced.

No?

"You're the real fascist!" he wails, as he votes for the architect of the American criminal justice system.

versusreality
09-02-2020, 10:16 AM
if that's your best defense, I believe the discussion is over.

also funny how you assume who I'm going to vote for. perhaps I'm doing a write in vote?

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 10:22 AM
well, back in the real world, there's an election happening in 2 months, and the outcome will change the rest of everyone on earth's life, so unless you have something to say other than "it's all the same, voting doesn't matter, blah blah, Biden is a fascist too, everyone is!" Then, I dunno, you're not really helping the conversation. If you really don't think there's going to be a difference if Biden or Trump is elected, I don't know what to say...

The outcome seems to be very important to Vladamir Putin, and China, and the rest of the world, so much so that they're flagrantly trying to put their thumbs on the scales. The outcome of this election seems to matter so much to the Kremlin that they're pumping tons of money into misinformation campaigns. Maybe you should phone them up and tell Putin it doesn't really matter and he should save his money.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 10:30 AM
The outcome seems to be very important to Vladamir Putin, and China, and the rest of the world, so much so that they're flagrantly trying to put their thumbs on the scales. The outcome of this election seems to matter so much to the Kremlin that they're pumping tons of money into misinformation campaigns. Maybe you should phone them up and tell Putin it doesn't really matter and he should save his money.

So? The American government undermined democratic elections in Italy in 1948 (overtly dumping millions of dollars (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/modern-italy/article/rethinking-american-intervention-in-the-1948-italian-election-beyond-a-successfailure-dichotomy/1BF2C98295B5449978091FA2EBF77383) into the hands of anti-Communist candidates), in Chile in the 1970s, and even in Russia in the 1990s. (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/07/the-us-has-a-long-history-of-election-meddling/565538/)


What many Russians, but few Americans, know is that 20 years before Russia tried to swing an American presidential election, America tried to swing a presidential election in Russia. The year was 1996. Boris Yeltsin was seeking a second term, and Bill Clinton desperately wanted to help. “I want this guy to win so bad,” he told (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0812968468/ref=rdr_ext_tmb) Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott, “it hurts.”Clinton liked Yeltsin personally. He considered him Russia’s best hope for embracing democracy and capitalism. And he appreciated Yeltsin’s acquiescence during nato’s march eastward, into the former Soviet bloc.

Unfortunately for Clinton, ordinary Russians appreciated their leader far less. Yeltsin’s “shock-therapy” economic reforms had reduced the government’s safety net, and produced a spike in unemployment and inflation. Between 1990 and 1994, the average life expectancy among Russian men had dropped (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9508159) by an astonishing six years. When Yeltsin began his reelection campaign in January 1996, his approval rating stood at 6 percent (https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/assessing-russias-democratic-presidential-election), lower than Stalin’s (https://ccisf.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/201612201405.pdf).

So the Clinton administration sprang into action. It lobbied the International Monetary Fund to give Russia a $10 billion loan, some of which Yeltsin distributed to woo voters. Upon arriving in a given city, he often announced (https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/assessing-russias-democratic-presidential-election), “My pockets are full.”

I find your appeal to nationalism - an ironic mirror-image of MAGAt nationalism - uneffective and, well, unappealing. Nationalism is itself repugnant.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 10:58 AM
My appeal to Nationalism? What the fuck are you talking about?! Sorry, I don't want the Kremlin, or anyone else, to try to fuck with our election. Oh no, that makes me a nationalist!!!!? I do, however, note that they think the outcome is important to their interests... and that was the point.

You never got around to actually answering my question though: If voting is "not an alternative," what is?

Einzige
09-02-2020, 11:02 AM
My appeal to Nationalism? What the fuck are you talking about?! Sorry, I don't want the Kremlin, or anyone else, to try to fuck with our election. Oh no, that makes me a nationalist!!!!?

Generally speaking, yes it does. Accepting the fiction of the sanctity of national integrity on any level makes you a nationalist.


I do, however, note that they think the outcome is important to their interests... and that was the point.

You never got around to actually answering my question though: If voting is "not an alternative," what is?

The alternative, at this point, is to attempt to reach out to the Russian (and Chinese) proletariats and work towards a unified, international Communist Party set against their respective bourgeois States.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 11:05 AM
Generally speaking, yes it does. Accepting the fiction of the sanctity of national integrity on any level makes you a nationalist. I'm not appealing to any sanctity. I don't want America fucking with the elections of other countries. I think this country is shit on a thousand levels and is guilty of more shit than it can ever be absolved of. Fuck you.




The alternative, at this point, is to attempt to reach out to the Russian (and Chinese) proletariats and work towards a unified, international Communist Party set against their respective bourgeois States.


Good fucking luck with that fantasy.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 11:11 AM
I'm not appealing to any sanctity. I don't want America fucking with the elections of other countries. I think this country is shit on a thousand levels and is guilty of more shit than it can ever be absolved of. Fuck you.

These issues cannot be resolved by electing either of the capitalist Parties.


Good fucking luck with that fantasy.

It probably begins with the ascension of China to the status of hegemon. Though the CPC only uses Marxism to justify their capitalism (on the basis that the means of production have to be developed - by the CPC, of course), they're starting to have problems keeping their real Marxists in line. (https://www.ft.com/content/fd087484-2f23-11e9-8744-e7016697f225) The Chinese workers are at least accustomed to class rhetoric.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 11:14 AM
These issues cannot be resolved by electing either of the capitalist Parties.

Yeah, well, this has been a really great and productive conversation, but I'm bored.

allegate
09-02-2020, 11:17 AM
https://i.gifer.com/MGKn.gif

GulDukat
09-02-2020, 11:40 AM
I will never understand why some people rate Trump so highly on his handling of the economy. (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval_economy-6182.html)

Yet people also give Trump shit rating with his handling of COVID-19. (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/coronavirus-polls/) The two things are interconnected.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 11:45 AM
Biden is gonna be Tuffer On Crime than the Republican, lul.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=60&v=LgHXJ3rdOn0

Rioting and looting are protesting. They're just not the ineffectual form of peaceful protest that left-liberals think they're Gandhi for accepting. Violence does bring change, and Biden's line about his "language being less divisive" reminds me of Marx:


The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly “world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives. The most recent of them have found the correct expression for their activity when they declare they are only fighting against “phrases.” They forget, however, that to these phrases they themselves are only opposing other phrases, and that they are in no way combating the real existing world when they are merely combating the phrases of this world.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 11:46 AM
Biden is gonna be Tuffer On Crime than the Republican, lul.

What did you expect him to say, "burn it down! Rioters rule!" Yeah, that's a winning strategy. Are you surprised someone running for president said "burning stuff down is bad?" He only needed to even say it because Trump accused him of supporting looting.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 11:49 AM
What did you expect him to say, "burn it down! Rioters rule!" Yeah, that's a winning strategy. Are you surprised someone running for president said "burning stuff down is bad?" He only needed to even say it because Trump accused him of supporting looting.

Of course not. Which is precisely why supporting Biden is so ineffectual.

Biden, and the Democratic Party, and American left-liberals, are all just more flavors of conservative.

Jinsai
09-02-2020, 11:50 AM
Of course not. Which is precisely why supporting Biden is so ineffectual.

Because he's trying to actually WIN an election?

Einzige
09-02-2020, 11:51 AM
Because he's trying to actually win an election?

Yes, you've got it. Elections are utterly ineffectual vehicles for sociopolitical change, and granting them legitimacy is in and of itself a conservative act

versusreality
09-02-2020, 11:54 AM
Yes, you've got it. Elections are utterly ineffectual vehicles for sociopolitical change, and granting them legitimacy is in and of itself a conservative act

let us know how it goes when you try to burn down your local businesses. why wait? get the revolution started today!

halo eighteen
09-02-2020, 12:10 PM
Why are we still interacting with this troll?

Einzige
09-02-2020, 12:17 PM
Why are we still interacting with this troll?

The greatness of the Democratic Party.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/assets2.thebureauinvestigates.com/uploads/Pakistan-strikes.jpg

M1ke
09-02-2020, 01:37 PM
I think the point that Einzige is trying to make, is that small incremental progress that you'd likely get with Biden is equivalent to the drastic destruction of democracy you'd get with Trump.

And honestly, if that's not enough to make you realize how much value their is in debating something with them, then I can't help you.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 01:46 PM
that small incremental progress that you'd likely get with Biden

my point is that this probably doesn't exist - we'll surely get an expanded cold war with Russia under Biden, and he's set to be more hawkish than Trump in the Middle East as well.

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:08 PM
Violence does bring change
This country has seen violence and rioting and looting related to racial oppression since the '60s.

It brought very little to no change.

See this: Scars Still Run Deep In Motor City 50 Years After Detroit Riots (https://www.npr.org/2017/07/24/538996771/scars-still-run-deep-in-motor-city-50-years-after-detroit-riots)

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:11 PM
This country has seen violence and rioting and looting related to racial oppression since the '60s.

It brought very little to no change.

It scared Johnson into signing the 1968 Civil Rights Bill, per the Kerner Report, and forced Nixon to pare back his plans to eliminate programs like HUD (whether or not legislative change is sufficient or relevant is a matter of debate, but the '68 Civil Rights act absolutely does not happen without the riots of a year prior). But, of course, the violence should be organized and opposed to the legislative process, contra the Civil Rights Movements' strategy of using it to force legislation.

No 1967 riots, no Kern Report, no 1968 Civil Rights Bill (with the sweet little anti-riot proviso tucked into Title X). That little real change emerged from the 1968 bill is simply a demonstration of the absolute limits of liberal capitalism and the failures of the left-wing of Capital as embodied in the Democratic Party.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8E1sCZH3YE

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:19 PM
Of course not. Which is precisely why supporting Biden is so ineffectual.

Biden, and the Democratic Party, and American left-liberals, are all just more flavors of conservative.

Because most American voters, including a huge number of the phony Che Guevaras on the left, only vote in Presidential general elections and maybe primaries. They don't care about local elections, including municipal elections, district elections, school board elections, etc. WHICH IS WHERE MOST CHANGE ACTUALLY OCCURS.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:21 PM
Because most American voters, including a huge number of the phony Che Guevaras on the left, only vote in Presidential general elections and maybe primaries. They don't care about local elections, including municipal elections, district elections, school board elections, etc. WHICH IS WHERE MOST CHANGE ACTUALLY OCCURS.

I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.

Wretchedest
09-02-2020, 02:21 PM
It's not that I think the Democratic party is effective it's that this guy is advocating a third party vote which is thousands of times more ineffectual.

And all it does is serve your fucking ego. There are people struggling in this country who benefit from social programs like Obama phones, who got off the street because of programs funded by federal healthcare grants. But that doesn't matter to you because you want everyone to see your big swinging dick. You're above it all! Wow look at them go

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:22 PM
It scared Johnson into signing the 1968 Civil Rights Bill, per the Kern Report, and forced Nixon to pare back his plans to eliminate programs like HUD (whether or not legislative change is sufficient or relevant is a matter of debate, but the '68 Civil Rights act absolutely does not happen without the riots of a year prior). But, of course, the violence should be organized and opposed to the legislative process, contra the Civil Rights Movements' strategy of using it to force legislation.

No 1967 riots, no Kern Report, no 1968 Civil Rights Bill (with the sweet little anti-riot proviso tucked into Title X). That little real change emerged from the 1968 bill is simply a demonstration of the absolute limits of liberal capitalism and the failures of the left-wing of Capital as embodied in the Democratic Party.

Bullshit.

You're cherry picking and not counting things like SELMA and police brutality directed at blacks and Freedom Riders.

Violence like the riots and looting affects the neighborhoods where minorities live and work; it mostly serves to negatively affect their own neighborhoods, often permanently.

In the case of Kenosha, footage shows it was mostly white people doing the damage, not in their own neighborhood.

There are plenty of examples of change without any of that. One great example: the Black Friday protests in Chicago after the release of the Laquan McDonald dashcam footage in Chicago (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/laquan-mcdonald-shooting-protesters-disrupt-black-friday-shopping-downtown-chicago-n470416).

They were massive, organized, shut down the Mag Mile on its busiest shopping day of the year, hit retailers straight in the wallet without smashing one single window or burning down one building.

It led to the firing of the Police Superintendent, a Federal investigation into the CPD, and the Mayor not running for re-election.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:26 PM
It's not that I think the Democratic party is effective it's that this guy is advocating a third party vote

I don't advocate a third party vote. All of the third parties are garbage (including ostensibly "Communist" ones like the CPUSA, which has been a Democratic Party appendage since the end of the Cold War, endorsing Kerry, Obama etc.)


Bullshit.

You're cherry picking and not counting things like SELMA and police brutality directed at blacks and Freedom Riders.

The impetus for the 1968 Civil Rights Act was literally as a response to the Kerner Report on the 1967 race riots. The 1968 Act simply proved ineffectual, because all civil rights acts are ineffectual, because legislative electoralism is useless.

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:31 PM
I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.

Yeah, well, good luck with that.

I concur with the others, that you're just trolling in this thread.

There will be no change to our elections; it's written in our Constitution, The End.

allegate
09-02-2020, 02:32 PM
I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.
so what do you believe in? Other than "nothing" and concern-trolling, that is.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:32 PM
Yeah, well, good luck with that.

I concur with the others, that you're just trolling in this election thread.

There will be no change to our elections; it's written in our Constitution, The End.

"Our Constitution". Hence your conservatism.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:34 PM
so what do you believe in? Other than "nothing" and concern-trolling, that is.

Left-Communism, of the sort elaborated by the American theorist Paul Mattick and the Dutch astronomer Antonie Pannekoek. I believe in the inevitability of the abolition of generalized commodity production for exchange and the value form. Democracy is superseded where production is for use.

Einzige
09-02-2020, 02:34 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1968

This act was prompted by the riots of the prior year.

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:41 PM
"Our Constitution". Hence your conservatism.

No, "our" refers to venue.

allegro
09-02-2020, 02:43 PM
It's ALL drift. I'm no longer participating.


sweeterthan: Can we please do something about this?