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buckaroo
12-02-2019, 12:59 PM
I think it's up to the artist to decide what's the definitive version tbh.

I totally agree with you. At the end of the day it is up to the artist. Really, my point is that it seems crazy that as a society we are pushing something that is such a waste of resources (e.g. materials, manufacturing, distribution, etc.). We currently have the ability to invest in making a digital experience that is better than any we have had before. Instead, we continue to ignore this and push an old antiquated model. It's just strange.

Also, nobody today needs a physical item to play music. It's just the way it is. I get that some people yearn for the way things were done, but we have to move forward at some point. I really liked CDs. I also realized they are completely unnecessary.

I feel bad that I had to buy this big physical item that took time and resources to create and needs to be shipped just so I can get the files. Again, at the end of the day, I don't care that much. If I didn't want it I would not buy it, but that's how I can get it. I just think It's better for everyone to invest in making an amazing digital experience.

katara
12-02-2019, 01:08 PM
nobody today needs a physical item to play music.
Either:
a) I am very confused.
b) You are very confused.
c) You live on the ethereal plane.

Max
12-02-2019, 01:27 PM
I totally agree with you. At the end of the day it is up to the artist. Really, my point is that it seems crazy that as a society we are pushing something that is such a waste of resources (e.g. materials, manufacturing, distribution, etc.). We currently have the ability to invest in making a digital experience that is better than any we have had before. Instead, we continue to ignore this and push an old antiquated model. It's just strange.

Also, nobody today needs a physical item to play music. It's just the way it is. I get that some people yearn for the way things were done, but we have to move forward at some point. I really liked CDs. I also realized they are completely unnecessary.

I feel bad that I had to buy this big physical item that took time and resources to create and needs to be shipped just so I can get the files. Again, at the end of the day, I don't care that much. If I didn't want it I would not buy it, but that's how I can get it. I just think It's better for everyone to invest in making an amazing digital experience.

I am 100% with this idea of a better digital experience - artists are somewhat limited by the current platforms, but SO much more could be done visually. I always loved how the SLIP had different artwork for each track. There could be animations, videos, all kinds of secret eastereggs and band photos and everything else that could be a more immersive experience.

Max
12-02-2019, 01:34 PM
Not necessarily. For some artists, the medium that they work with is directly tied into the meaning of their art. For musicians, it really doesn't matter what that art presented on, unless you're making Hip Hop and want DJs to do some live vinyl scratching (which is a completely different art form, but I digress). For all intents and purposes, the music is either baked onto a big round thing, a small round thing, or it's digital. That object (or non-object) has no relation to the music whatsoever aside from being the means by which it's delivered to the audience's ears.


For most artists, they just want their work to be seen and enjoyed. A lot of people go to Wendy's, therefore a lot of people are going to see that art. As an artist myself, I'd be over the moon if I had my work displayed in a major chain restaurant.


Ed Norton recently said that cinema is dead and Netflix is the way forward.
Scorsese just released his latest film on Netflix.
Go figure.


Yes, absolutely. He has the right to present it how he likes, sure. Limiting that to one format and telling everyone else that they're wrong for consuming media in a way that differs from his personal preference is, however, quite distasteful.


Hard to be taken on that journey when you have to get up to manually flip the record every 20 minutes. The medium doesn't translate well to the nature of the art, which in Trent's case, is often journey/narrative-based.


Why are you in this thread, exactly?


Trent has explained WHY he is releasing it on vinyl, and he's been generous enough to also include digital downloads with it. The central experience of focusing on the music and not doing something else is what he is trying to nudge people towards. That is his prerogative as an artist.

It is hard to understand why you would have so much venom towards a musician for not putting their music on CD's in 2019. So much so that you would consider walking away. But then you are saying all of this in a dedicated site for fans. Is it that you don't feel like this person is meeting your individual unique needs? That Trent Reznor owes you something personally? Is that a very healthy expectation to have?

buckaroo
12-02-2019, 01:51 PM
Either:
a) I am very confused.
b) You are very confused.
c) You live on the ethereal plane.

Sorry, I meant nobody needs a traditional storage media for music (e.g. CD, tape, vinyl, etc.). Currently we all, of course, need a physical device for playback.

buckaroo
12-02-2019, 01:57 PM
Trent has explained WHY he is releasing it on vinyl, and he's been generous enough to also include digital downloads with it.

I literally just bought 3 records with the expectation that they would come with a digital code and they did not. I love that Trent is passionate about vinyl and that is great... but it is sort of like grandpa saying "back in my day..." You can't tell me that I have less of an appreciation for music or that I am unable to experience it properly unless I listen on vinyl.

Edit: I don't want to come across as one of those people who hates vinyl. That isn't my issue. I just really feel digital is the best option all around, but the one that gets the least attention by the industry.

laststepdown
12-02-2019, 02:00 PM
Sorry, I meant nobody needs a traditional storage media for music (e.g. CD, tape, vinyl, etc.). Currently we all, of course, need a physical device for playback.

I guess if you keep everything on a cloud, then you don't even need a hard drive, huh?

Imho I don't entrust any corporation with that much of my personal/valuable/extensive data. They already pull and ping more than I'm comfortable with. I'll take the task upon myself instead to sync my mobile device with my personal home collection by hardwire.

katara
12-02-2019, 02:32 PM
It is hard to understand why you would have so much venom towards a musician for not putting their music on CD's in 2019. So much so that you would consider walking away. But then you are saying all of this in a dedicated site for fans. Is it that you don't feel like this person is meeting your individual unique needs? That Trent Reznor owes you something personally? Is that a very healthy expectation to have?
Bowel release is healthy. Better than constipation, at any rate.

Tom
12-02-2019, 02:49 PM
Bowel release is healthy. Better than constipation, at any rate.

This is the poopy diaper thread after all.

eversonpoe
12-02-2019, 02:59 PM
personally (and i am only speaking from my own experience) i don't like listening to new music without being able to physically hold something in my hands that is related to it. just looking at the artwork for a release on my computer/phone does almost nothing for me. i am a very physical person in everything i do; tactile sensation is important to me. now, if every digital-only release came with an interesting physical component (a la NTAE & AV) that isn't a storage medium for the music but simply a physical object that corresponds to it, i would be absolutely fine. but the closest thing to that with many releases is vinyl. my eyesight is starting to have serious issues, so being able to hold a giant sleeve that has the artwork/lyrics/credits/etc. on it is great. i actually like the experience of flipping records over; it doesn't interrupt the process of listening to music, it keeps me engaged and keeps my mind from wandering while i'm listening.

and again, i am only speaking from my experience, so i'm fine if other people don't feel that way, and i'm fine if artists don't cater to my expectations. are people allowed to be disappointed? sure! but complaining about it and threatening to jump ship from that artist who makes music that you love is kind of childish and totally unnecessary. enjoy the music however you can, and be happy that it exists; i know i am.

allegate
12-02-2019, 03:05 PM
personally (and i am only speaking from my own experience) i don't like listening to new music without being able to physically hold something in my hands that is related to it. just looking at the artwork for a release on my computer/phone does almost nothing for me. i am a very physical person in everything i do; tactile sensation is important to me. now, if every digital-only release came with an interesting physical component (a la NTAE & AV) that isn't a storage medium for the music but simply a physical object that corresponds to it, i would be absolutely fine. but the closest thing to that with many releases is vinyl. my eyesight is starting to have serious issues, so being able to hold a giant sleeve that has the artwork/lyrics/credits/etc. on it is great. i actually like the experience of flipping records over; it doesn't interrupt the process of listening to music, it keeps me engaged and keeps my mind from wandering while i'm listening.

and again, i am only speaking from my experience, so i'm fine if other people don't feel that way, and i'm fine if artists don't cater to my expectations. are people allowed to be disappointed? sure! but complaining about it and threatening to jump ship from that artist who makes music that you love is kind of childish and totally unnecessary. enjoy the music however you can, and be happy that it exists; i know i am.
on that same front: I couldn't tell you the name for any song I enjoy that's been released in a very long time because I'm not looking at the albums anymore. the screen stays in my pocket and I never look at what's playing.

Jon
12-02-2019, 03:37 PM
I just really feel digital is the best option all around, but the one that gets the least attention by the industry.

I think this has more to do with the end user, or rather what expectations should be placed on them. Some people immediately retag all of their music, some people just don't care as long as it's all searchable. The more "stuff" you're packaging with the digital audio, the less likely it's going to all stay together.

There's also hardware limitations. Outside of expensive DAPs, most players are incapable of simple things like showing multiple artwork for a single track. Or displaying a PDF in a way you'd want to look at it on the device.


on that same front: I couldn't tell you the name for any song I enjoy that's been released in a very long time because I'm not looking at the albums anymore. the screen stays in my pocket and I never look at what's playing.

It's become personal habit to pull out my phone and look at the track info when I notice a song change.

katara
12-02-2019, 04:04 PM
on that same front: I couldn't tell you the name for any song I enjoy that's been released in a very long time because I'm not looking at the albums anymore. the screen stays in my pocket and I never look at what's playing.


It's become personal habit to pull out my phone and look at the track info when I notice a song change.
But... but Twent sez the onwy way to wisten to music iz WITH YOUR FUCKING PHONE TURNED OFF

allegate
12-02-2019, 04:10 PM
does it count if it's an ipod?

nmitchell86
12-02-2019, 09:57 PM
I used to not know song titles either... I did howerver know them by track number. Ohhhh Fragile 05, I loved that song so much and had it on repete repete repete...

buckaroo
12-03-2019, 07:20 AM
It's become personal habit to pull out my phone and look at the track info when I notice a song change.

I rend to read about songs or albums while I listen. I spend a lot of time looking through Wikipedia to see who performed on a track, interesting information about the writing and recording process, where it was recorded, etc. This is the type of information that I feel really lends itself to a digital landscape.

eversonpoe
12-03-2019, 09:43 AM
I rend to read about songs or albums while I listen. I spend a lot of time looking through Wikipedia to see who performed on a track, interesting information about the writing and recording process, where it was recorded, etc. This is the type of information that I feel really lends itself to a digital landscape.

i do that after i listen, usually. same thing with movies; as soon as i'm done, i go straight to the imdb trivia page.

TheBang
12-04-2019, 03:54 PM
I'm curious as to where that recording of TDTWWA came from as they didn't play that at either of the Bridge School nights.

It says on the discogs page (https://www.discogs.com/Nine-Inch-Nails-Right-Where-He-Belongs/release/4025467) that it comes from the CRC 2000 sessions.

paul_guyet
12-04-2019, 05:45 PM
It says on the discogs page (https://www.discogs.com/Nine-Inch-Nails-Right-Where-He-Belongs/release/4025467) that it comes from the CRC 2000 sessions.I love when bootlegs just have random tacks thrown in...it sows such delightful confusion.

Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)
12-04-2019, 06:47 PM
Aren't a lot of these bootleg vinyls just ripped from mp3s? You hear that all the time

ninlive
12-04-2019, 08:30 PM
Just wanted to chime in that when I listen back to CDs or a vinyl record and compare quality, my tinnitus is still the same.

halo eighteen
12-04-2019, 09:16 PM
Aren't a lot of these bootleg vinyls just ripped from mp3s? You hear that all the time

Yeah that's definitely just a problem limited to bootleg vinyl.

Prettybrokenspiral
12-05-2019, 08:00 PM
I love when bootlegs just have random tacks thrown in...it sows such delightful confusion.

It's eyebrow-raising on this release, for sure. Coincidentally, there's a companion bootleg LP of night two of the BSB performance that has Even Deeper from the CRC Session tacked on at the end, similar to TDTWWA on night one's LP..

In this instance, it's the thrill of the hunt for an LP of this performance, as it's so scarce and generally hard to come by. It's also my favorite musician we're talking about, so I've got no issues putting down good money to sleep at night knowing this is sitting on my shelf. We can laugh about Trent's "vinyl-above-all" stance and the merits of LP vs. CD, but at the end of the day, I'm fucking stoked that it's my favorite band/musician that's releasing these high-quality fetishy collector's pieces and standing behind his art, no matter how much space it takes up in my living quarters..

I spent the better part of the year bitching on here about not having Bird Box Deluxe in my hands, but shit, was it ever worth it. I haven't seen a package that nice since Cargo In The Blood..

BRoswell
12-05-2019, 10:17 PM
Just wanted to chime in that when I listen back to CDs or a vinyl record and compare quality, my tinnitus is still the same.

Same. :p

Jon
12-07-2019, 08:06 AM
Just wanted to chime in that when I listen back to CDs or a vinyl record and compare quality, my tinnitus is still the same.

I prefer vinyl tinnitus. It has a much warmer buzzing sound.

eversonpoe
12-07-2019, 04:06 PM
I prefer vinyl tinnitus. It has a much warmer buzzing sound.

vinyl tinnitus would be a great band name

theimage13
12-07-2019, 05:39 PM
I prefer vinyl tinnitus. It has a much warmer buzzing sound.

Goddamn hipstears.

katara
12-13-2019, 06:14 PM
After seeing the images of Watchmen Vol. 3, I am now legitimately upset this isn't going to be on CD. This sucks.

katara
12-31-2019, 01:38 PM
Only just found out about Let Him Ride. TR's draconian crusade against CDs is one thing, but what's the benefit in omitting tracks from a digital release? Why? Especially when the vinyl edition apparently sold out in pre-orders.

What's going on? Seriously.

jmtd
01-01-2020, 03:17 AM
Just download Rocket From The Crypt - "On A Rope" and you’ve pretty much got it.

Edit: but I think the rationale was to not piss off the vinyl buyers given it omits several tracks. A concession to that.

laststepdown
01-03-2020, 09:54 AM
I waited until after the holiday season to put my request for the warped Add Violence I got last month from nin.com, sleeve also damaged in shipping. I haven't heard back from them, I don't think they're going to honor the exchange. I feel dumb and worthless and a bother to the entire world.

So this morning, the guy I bought a blue x/1000 7" Converge EP from said he's out of town until next week, and can't ship until then, but he did thank me for paying him instantly.

botley
01-03-2020, 10:56 AM
what's the benefit in omitting tracks from a digital release? Why? Especially when the vinyl edition apparently sold out in pre-orders.
Different formats are allowed to be different, this isn't unprecedented (remember a little vinyl-exclusives-packed release called The Fragile?) when the run time needs to be shorter, or a different track works better in place of something else that can't be there for some reason. "Let Him Ride" is a fun track, but not essential... and I don't remember actually hearing it appear in the show, not when I was re-watching all the episodes this week. Happy to be wrong, if anybody else spotted it!

FULLMETAL
01-03-2020, 06:15 PM
Oh, good. I thought I missed a cue & couldn’t think which of the final episodes had the track.

zecho
01-03-2020, 10:02 PM
Different formats are allowed to be different, this isn't unprecedented (remember a little vinyl-exclusives-packed release called The Fragile?) when the run time needs to be shorter, or a different track works better in place of something else that can't be there for some reason. "Let Him Ride" is a fun track, but not essential... and I don't remember actually hearing it appear in the show, not when I was re-watching all the episodes this week. Happy to be wrong, if anybody else spotted it!

I just like everything in lossless on my computer, man.

botley
01-04-2020, 07:01 AM
^ Me too, and the vinyl rip floating around satisfies that.

zecho
01-04-2020, 11:56 AM
^ Me too, and the vinyl rip floating around satisfies that.

Still in the process of finding it. Have an MP3 rip, still working on FLAC.

Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)
02-07-2020, 03:19 PM
https://pitchfork.com/news/devastating-manufacturing-plant-fire-threatens-worldwide-vinyl-record-supply/

Now that this fire has crippled the vinyl industry....Trent can go back to releasing CDs

once again CDs outlived vinyl

botley
02-08-2020, 10:31 AM
^ Nah, the record industry will adjust. It's shitty that this happened, no question, but it won't kill vinyl. Lacquer cutting was state of the art in 1970, but lots of different tech exists or has been tested subsequently in the intervening fifty years to to replace it and keep record pressing plants alive. That includes using copper for "direct metal" cutting (there are major pressing plants in Europe that already use this (http://www.gzvinyl.com/Manufacturing/Metal-Work/DMM-plates-processing.aspx)), laser cutting, etc. There was a big publicity push last year for so-called "HD vinyl", effectively 3D-printed from high resolution digital waveform images, and I imagine the folks pushing that tech are going to be able to get big investments now to perfect the process.

This news particularly sucks though for artists and mastering facilities that were doing really small-batch runs of vinyl, because the relatively cheap (I think it was as low as $45 per side?) lacquer days are now effectively over, and this disruption will massively increase their overhead costs. But, distribution chain problems and the giant bottleneck created by the biannual Record Store Day glut of releases has already backed the "vinyl revival" into a corner as far as retailers are concerned. Now that labels need to be careful about how many items can be cut in the traditional fashion, everyone will have a rethink about their production process.

It's unlikely that NIN's plans will take much of a hit, though you could see price tags go up even higher for new releases.

MrLobster
02-08-2020, 11:33 AM
That includes using copper for "direct metal" cutting (there are major pressing plants in Europe that already use this (http://www.gzvinyl.com/Manufacturing/Metal-Work/DMM-plates-processing.aspx))

I'm a firm believer in DMM for electronic-based music... it's just so crisp.

Max
02-09-2020, 12:13 PM
https://pitchfork.com/news/devastating-manufacturing-plant-fire-threatens-worldwide-vinyl-record-supply/

Now that this fire has crippled the vinyl industry....Trent can go back to releasing CDs

once again CDs outlived vinyl

CD's will never make sense again. They are the worst of all worlds. They lack the quality of HiRes digital and they lack the giant art and physicality of vinyl.
Honestly, what makes more sense than anything else in 2020 is a better visual experience to accompany digital files. The physical components, and digital elements to accompany.

botley
02-10-2020, 01:28 PM
More about the HD Vinyl process (https://hdvinyl.org/roadmap-2020/) and where it's at in the test stages. Will be interesting to see if they pull it off... it would essentially render all but the most strictly traditional analogue tape-to-lacquer vinyl mastering processes obsolete (including the byproducts of toxic chemicals required to make lacquers) and maximize the format's playback length, while maintaining compatibility with standard pressing plants and turntables.

hollowsminion
06-27-2020, 02:57 PM
Simple question: Where can I legitimately purchase hi-quality flac/wav of With Teeth Definitive Edition? Also, where is the best place to purchase hi-res files for Watchman soundtrack? I usually purchase from 7digital but they only have Vol2. I've read through various threads but working at an essential business for the past 4 months during all this insanity has my brain about done and my research keeps getting interrupted! Any direction is appreciated.
EDIT: Found Acoustics Sounds for Watchman Soundtrack. Check that off.

BRoswell
06-27-2020, 08:22 PM
Simple question: Where can I legitimately purchase hi-quality flac/wav of With Teeth Definitive Edition? Also, where is the best place to purchase hi-res files for Watchman soundtrack? I usually purchase from 7digital but they only have Vol2. I've read through various threads but working at an essential business for the past 4 months during all this insanity has my brain about done and my research keeps getting interrupted! Any direction is appreciated.
EDIT: Found Acoustics Sounds for Watchman Soundtrack. Check that off.

Unfortunately, it looks like you have to buy the vinyl in order to get the remastered With Teeth tracks.

Max
06-30-2020, 03:33 PM
Unfortunately, it looks like you have to buy the vinyl in order to get the remastered With Teeth tracks.
Enjoy the big, beautiful artwork that the Vinyl offers. It accompanies digital files quite nicely. Sometimes I pull a record off the shelf and look at the art while I listen to a FLAC on my hi-res player. Great experience.

Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)
09-22-2020, 04:24 PM
Trent releases Quake on vinyl.....And people are bitching and moaning about no download code.
Trent releases new shirt designs.....And people are bitching and moaning about the sizes of the shirts.

Starting to see why this guy despises a large portion of the fanbase

sonic_discord
09-22-2020, 05:09 PM
Starting to see why this guy despises a large portion of the fanbase

Pretty sure you're thinking of Maynard, not Trent.

neorev
09-22-2020, 05:58 PM
Trent releases Quake on vinyl.....And people are bitching and moaning about no download code.

Oh, I'm sorry...
I thought we were living in 2020, not 1970. A download code with your purchase is not asking for much.

Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)
09-22-2020, 06:54 PM
Oh, I'm sorry...
I thought we were living in 2020, not 1970.

Considering the MASSIVE hard-on Trent and this fanbase has for vinyl....You sure its not 1970?

neorev
09-22-2020, 07:20 PM
Considering the MASSIVE hard-on Trent and this fanbase has for vinyl....You sure its not 1970?

After giving the vinyl format a shot, it wasn't for me. I didn't like the sound, especially the pops, clicks, crackles, and having an album broken up into ADD certified bite-sized sections, which ruins the journey/listening experience for me. Oh, and spending all that cash just to roll the dice and hope it arrives in pristine condition (50/50 damaged on arrival). Don't get me wrong, the packaging does look pretty... when it's not bent, crushed, split, and coming unglued.

If Trent decided to exclusively release on vinyl only and ditch digital altogether, I would honestly just stop listening to his music then. And that's coming from a hardcore who has been following him since Pretty Hate Machine. As much as I've been dying to hear this Quake remaster, being a vinyl exclusive means that I'm never going to get to listen to it. I don't want a vinyl rip. I wouldn't mind a nice 24 bit hi-res lossless audio release.

If Trent's idea is to alienate longtime fans such as myself who do not like the vinyl format...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/7c/43/087c431d4b45d52a3726859e48aa3079.gif

Plenty of other digitally released music I can throw my money at.

Erneuert
09-22-2020, 07:25 PM
After giving the vinyl format a shot, it wasn't for me. I didn't like the sound, especially the pops, clicks, crackles, and having an album broken up into ADD certified bite-sized sections, which ruins the journey/listening experience for me. Oh, and spending all that cash just to roll the dice and hope it arrives in pristine condition (50/50 damaged on arrival). Don't get me wrong, the packaging does look pretty... when it's not bent, crushed, split, and coming unglued.

If Trent decided to exclusively release on vinyl only and ditch digital altogether, I would honestly just stop listening to his music then. And that's coming from a hardcore who has been following him since Pretty Hate Machine. As much as I've been dying to hear this Quake remaster, being a vinyl exclusive means that I'm never going to get to listen to it. I don't want a vinyl rip. I want a nice 24 bit hi-res lossless audio release.

If Trent's idea is to alienate longtime fans such as myself who do not like the vinyl format...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/7c/43/087c431d4b45d52a3726859e48aa3079.gif

Don’t be distressed. I’m sure a seed0 torrent will appear within a week.

otnavuskire
09-22-2020, 07:27 PM
If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.

Tom
09-23-2020, 03:58 AM
If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.
This is a little too simplistic. After all, every pop, click, and crackle corresponds to the stylus making contact with something other than the groove - a scratch, some dust, or grime. So the condition of the records is really the key factor. Not to mention that some pressings just aren't that good and have a certain amount of noise baked in. Of course, different styluses will be more or less sensitive to these things. But - above a certain very low (e.g. Crossley) threshold, and generalising slightly - it's more often the higher-end cartridges which are more sensitive to these things; a entry level MM cartridge (say, an Ortofon 2M red) is liable to be less sensitive than a decent MC cartridge, since they're less sensitive generally. You'll get a lot more detail, particularly in the higher frequencies, with a decent MC cartridge, but this can cut both ways, and it'll be more sensitive to noise than a more basic cartridge (this is a bit of a generalisation, since stylus profile is also a factor, but again, the 'better' profiles tend also to be more sensitive). Similarly, if your phonostage has a poor high frequency response, then pops, clicks, and crackles are all going to be less obvious. In general, then, I think that better equipment is actually liable to expose you to more noise, which is why it becomes more important to keep your records nice and clean.

otnavuskire
09-23-2020, 06:20 AM
This is a little too simplistic. After all, every pop, click, and crackle corresponds to the stylus making contact with something other than the groove - a scratch, some dust, or grime. So the condition of the records is really the key factor. Not to mention that some pressings just aren't that good and have a certain amount of noise baked in. Of course, different styluses will be more or less sensitive to these things. But - above a certain very low (e.g. Crossley) threshold, and generalising slightly - it's more often the higher-end cartridges which are more sensitive to these things; a entry level MM cartridge (say, an Ortofon 2M red) is liable to be less sensitive than a decent MC cartridge, since they're less sensitive generally. You'll get a lot more detail, particularly in the higher frequencies, with a decent MC cartridge, but this can cut both ways, and it'll be more sensitive to noise than a more basic cartridge (this is a bit of a generalisation, since stylus profile is also a factor, but again, the 'better' profiles tend also to be more sensitive). Similarly, if your phonostage has a poor high frequency response, then pops, clicks, and crackles are all going to be less obvious. In general, then, I think that better equipment is actually liable to expose you to more noise, which is why it becomes more important to keep your records nice and clean.

This is why I said "on ALL of your new records." Yes, some pressings will have flaws straight from the factory. But if every new record you buy sounds bad, it's the equipment. Or, as you said, you're not properly cleaning.

Tom
09-23-2020, 07:18 AM
This is why I said "on ALL of your new records." Yes, some pressings will have flaws straight from the factory. But if every new record you buy sounds bad, it's the equipment. Or, as you said, you're not properly cleaning.
Oh for sure. I just wanted to combat the myth (that's rife on discogs) that a preponderance of this kind of surface noise - snaps, crackles, pops - is likely due to poor equipment. Above a very low quality threshold, it isn't. Though of course, with poor equipment you're liable to get other forms of noise - various kinds of distortion, rumble etc. And so if, as you say, things always sound bad, that is a likely culprit.

BRoswell
09-23-2020, 10:30 AM
Trent releases Quake on vinyl.....And people are bitching and moaning about no download code.
Trent releases new shirt designs.....And people are bitching and moaning about the sizes of the shirts.

Starting to see why this guy despises a large portion of the fanbase

This coming from the guy who is ALWAYS complaining about something...

When it comes to download codes, I think all anyone is asking for is a little consistency. Broken, Downward Spiral, Deviations 1 and the With Teeth remaster came with them. Many records come with them. In this day and age, why is it so hard to give people an option? It's also pretty disappointing when you consider how Ghosts I-IV was released twelve years ago. Deluxe editions, various digital formats, and CD and vinyl for everyone. Granted, that was an independent release and Trent probably had more control over that, but it's still frustrating to see it go like this, especially when other artists (with way less money at their disposal) are able to do it with relative ease.

Ascender
09-23-2020, 10:35 AM
This coming from the guy who is ALWAYS complaining about something...

When it comes to download codes, I think all anyone is asking for is a little consistency. Broken, Downward Spiral, Deviations 1 and the With Teeth remaster came with them. Many records come with them. In this day and age, why is it so hard to give people an option?

Given their history, I'm assuming there's a good reason why they haven't come with download codes (something legal around licensing perhaps?), so maybe they should just say why they don't on the product listing?

BRoswell
09-23-2020, 10:43 AM
...so maybe they should just say why they don't on the product listing?

They should at least tell you on the page that it doesn't include the option to download. I don't really need an explanation why (I can come to my own conclusions about stuff like that), but considering the precedent that was set with previous releases, it seems a little sneaky to not say anything about it.

neorev
09-23-2020, 11:15 AM
If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.

No, the point is you're rolling the dice every time you purchase a vinyl that things could possibly sound bad. There's plenty of vinyl releases with terrible reviews for quality. If I'm going to support a format, I want consistency. Did every record I played sound bad? Of course not. But I had enough times when it did that I gave up on the format. I never got a CD or a digital file that was pressed shittily.

And that's my problem with vinyl, quality wasn't consistent enough, arriving unscathed wasn't consistent enough, audio noise wasn't consistent enough. Who wants to drop a bunch of money on a chance that this may be a crappy pressing. I'm a music lover, not a gambler. My Tomorrow's Modern Boxes was a crappy pressing. I don't wanna deal with the hassle of having to argue with customer service for a replacement. I don't got time for that nonsense. And just like the people who are mad about the Quake vinyl not having a download code when every other reissue did... no consistency.

And, again, I don't like my music broken up into bite sized sections where I gotta get up and switch sides or switch records altogether every frigging 15 minutes. That's why I prefer The Fragile CD edition. The way songs flow into each other. It feels like a real journey. On vinyl, it's like a journey where every 15 minutes someone is stopping to take a selfie or take a piss. The flow and experience is ruined. The smell or feel of picking up a vinyl record does not enhance my journey whatsoever.

For me, the negatives outweigh the positives with the vinyl format.

Tom
09-23-2020, 12:29 PM
For me, the negatives outweigh the positives with the vinyl format.
All perfectly reasonable. Vinyl is a fetish, and - though I'm a fetishist myself - there are lots of good reasons not to get into it.

nmitchell86
09-23-2020, 01:05 PM
They should at least tell you on the page that it doesn't include the option to download. I don't really need an explanation why (I can come to my own conclusions about stuff like that), but considering the precedent that was set with previous releases, it seems a little sneaky to not say anything about it.

They kinda' already did that but in a reverse logic from what you are thinking. All that include a download, it is stated in the product description. "SELECT YOUR CHOICE OF DOWNLOAD FORMAT UPON EMAIL RECEIPT." So, if it's not listed in the product description, then there is your answer.

BRoswell
09-23-2020, 01:25 PM
So, if it's not listed in the product description, then there is your answer.

But again, there's a precedent that's been set by previous releases having them. If you include them with previous releases, people are going to assume that's a standard feature whether or not it says so on the page. A simple "Download Code Not Available With This Product" would solve the problem.

FULLMETAL
09-23-2020, 05:28 PM
I wish they'd go back to Columbia Records, as I thought "Welcome Oblivion" was the perfect vinyl release.

UMe is my second place since FLAC downloads were included in the confirmation email & they had a download code with minimalist artwork on the reverse side.

Capitol Records takes last place since their vinyl didn't include the minimalist art & no FLACs for WATCHMEN. That said, they did a killer job with the WATCHMEN vinyl releases & I hope they get recognized for a packaging/soundtrack grammy.

At this point, I am comfortable in my music piracy by purchasing the vinyl release for the artwork & liner notes and then stealing the high-res digital files to play on my devices and home stereo.

TheBang
09-23-2020, 06:04 PM
UMe is the only choice available for Interscope releases.

Regarding digital downloads provided in the confirmation email, that’s entirely a retail outlet decision (i.e. the NIN Store), not record-label dependent. Email confirmation downloads were provided for UMe, Capitol, and Columbia releases, as well as some that may have been on other labels too (soundtracks).

botley
09-23-2020, 08:20 PM
Capitol Records takes last place since their vinyl didn't include the minimalist art & no FLACs for WATCHMEN. That said, they did a killer job with the WATCHMEN vinyl releases & I hope they get recognized for a packaging/soundtrack grammy.


I don't think Capitol had anything to do with the Watchmen soundtracks, those were Null Corporation / UMe, just like Bird Box Extended.

TheBang
09-23-2020, 08:39 PM
I don't think Capitol had anything to do with the Watchmen soundtracks, those were Null Corporation / UMe, just like Bird Box Extended.
No, it was actually Capitol for all 3.

https://nincatalog.com/trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross/watchmen-sons-of-pale-horse-the-book-of-rorschach-us-vinyl12-1586/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/e2o7n7/watchmen_vol_2_press_insert_card/

botley
09-23-2020, 08:49 PM
No, it was actually Capitol for all 3.

https://nincatalog.com/trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross/watchmen-sons-of-pale-horse-the-book-of-rorschach-us-vinyl12-1586/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/e2o7n7/watchmen_vol_2_press_insert_card/

Ah, I must have missed that line on those cards. Thanks! Universal Music Group owns Capitol and UMe anyway, so it's a bit of a distinction without a difference, but well spotted.

FULLMETAL
09-24-2020, 10:21 AM
The difference is UMe includes download codes, but Capitol Records does not.

TheBang
09-24-2020, 01:27 PM
The difference is UMe includes download codes, but Capitol Records does not.
Quake is UMe and no code.

Add Violence and Bad Witch are Capitol and include codes.

FULLMETAL
09-24-2020, 01:42 PM
Quake is UMe and no code.

Add Violence and Bad Witch are Capitol and include codes.

I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me. However, I’m looking through my AV & BW vinyl and do not see any download codes.

spahn
09-24-2020, 01:58 PM
I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me. However, I’m looking through my AV & BW vinyl and do not see any download codes.

They did provide download codes for AV and BW

https://nincatalog.com/add-violence/

And although I don't have it noted on the nincatalog site, here is the email i got from Bad Witch Order

"Thanks for ordering from us. This email confirms your order of the following items:

BAD WITCH LP + TEE + BUTTON PACK + SLIPMAT + MESSENGER BAG - MP3 / XL x 1"

FULLMETAL
09-24-2020, 03:16 PM
Yes, if you purchased AV & BW from NIN.com you received a digital download. That ties back to @TheBang (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=176)'s comment here #314 (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/5700-The-Poopy-Diaper-Vinyl-Thread?p=510943#post510943). That's not what I'm talking about.

If you purchased AV & BW from a record store, you didn't get a download code (unless you purchased in the UK and got one from thesoundofvinyl.com).

TheBang
09-24-2020, 05:40 PM
If you purchased AV & BW from a record store, you didn't get a download code (unless you purchased in the UK and got one from thesoundofvinyl.com).
Sorry, I didn’t realize only the UK copies got the code inserts.


I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me.
I’m actually holding out a sliver of hope that the US copies of Quake will include a code insert. I don’t think any US copies have been received yet.

Leviathant
09-24-2020, 06:43 PM
I’m actually holding out a sliver of hope that the US copies of Quake will include a code insert. I don’t think any US copies have been received yet.

I don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately.

zecho
09-24-2020, 10:43 PM
I never got a CD or a digital file that was pressed shittily.

I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.

Jokes aside, I agree that music should be released digitally in lossless formats, and each TR release that moves further from that is increasingly disappointing to me. I have a vinyl collection, and I purchased the Quake and TSN records, but more than that physical copy I would like that remastered audio on my hard drive. In this particular case it may be a ridiculous legal thing, but with the relative difficulty of acquiring FLAC versions of Watchmen just before this, I'm just hoping that we're not moving towards a new normal of mp3s and vinyl being the only options. I'd still buy them, but it would be a glaring flaw in my collection.

I'm pretty sure that won't be the case though.

Erneuert
09-25-2020, 12:23 AM
I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.

Oh snap!

Max
09-29-2020, 11:20 AM
I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.

Jokes aside, I agree that music should be released digitally in lossless formats, and each TR release that moves further from that is increasingly disappointing to me. I have a vinyl collection, and I purchased the Quake and TSN records, but more than that physical copy I would like that remastered audio on my hard drive. In this particular case it may be a ridiculous legal thing, but with the relative difficulty of acquiring FLAC versions of Watchmen just before this, I'm just hoping that we're not moving towards a new normal of mp3s and vinyl being the only options. I'd still buy them, but it would be a glaring flaw in my collection.

I'm pretty sure that won't be the case though.

Yeah, same. I like the vinyl experience for the artwork and I like hi-res digital flac files for the best audio I can get.

I have been trying to improve my vinyl experience, but no matter what i do I get so much noise, even after cleaning the records. It's a lot of fuss.

I do love the idea that vinyl has a longer shelf life than any digital format though. It's nice to know that I have this music for a lifetime. But I often imagine what could be done outside of the norm. I actually LOVED the physical component for that reason. I think more should be done in that direction. Visuals can take whatever form you want them to now, to accompany the digital files.

Tom
09-29-2020, 11:57 AM
I have been trying to improve my vinyl experience, but no matter what i do I get so much noise, even after cleaning the records. It's a lot of fuss.

What sort of noise? And how are you cleaning them? If you're getting a lot of noise on everything then the problem might not be dust/debris in the grooves. If the noise is a lot of popping then maybe you have a static problem.

allegate
09-29-2020, 12:20 PM
Ah yes, "tracking down where that noise is coming from". It's a lot like riding a bike in that you only notice it while it's in motion and you can't do anything about it then either, just stop moving, make adjustments, and try again.

Max
10-06-2020, 03:29 PM
I feel like it's really easy for the whole experience of listening on vinyl can easily turning into "listening on vinyl" activities that never end, and not actually being able to just listen to the record. Like Do I have the right equipment, am i cleaning it right, why is there noise, why is the record wobbling, is this a good print of the record in the first place... before you know it you are a crazy old Gandolf-looking audiophile in a Hawaiian shirt who never actually listens to records for what they are saying, but just for how it sounds. I feel the pull sometimes, but it makes me realize this is way more complicated than it needs to be and i run back to digital.

halo eighteen
10-15-2020, 08:52 AM
Amazon currently has a promotion for buy 3 for price of 2 on select items, including vinyl and some NIN albums are part of this: The Downward Spiral (https://smile.amazon.com/Downward-Spiral-2-LP/dp/B0713M331T/), With Teeth (https://smile.amazon.com/Teeth-LP-Nine-Inch-Nails/dp/B081WVBKK9/), Not the Actual Events (https://smile.amazon.com/Actual-Events-Nine-Inch-Nails/dp/B071N9TFX7/), Add Violence (https://smile.amazon.com/Add-Violence-Nine-Inch-Nails/dp/B075P1ZNFH/), The Fragile: Deviations 1 (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B06ZY8M1SR), Watchmen: Volume 1 (https://smile.amazon.com/Watchmen-TRENT-ATTICUS-ROSS-REZNOR/dp/B07Z74G6ZQ/), Watchmen: Volume 3 (https://smile.amazon.com/Watchmen-TRENT-ATTICUS-ROSS-REZNOR/dp/B07Z74DK8W/)

I'm not sure if this is just for Prime members!

*10/17 edit - TDS and With Teeth are no longer part of the sale*

*10/19 edit - that's a wrap!*

muad'nin
10-31-2020, 05:34 PM
I thought posters to this thread might appreciate this.

My favourite Australian band TISM are releasing their first work in almost twenty years, and it’s a 100 minute album on vinyl, which consists solely of silence. The relevant parts of the press release (https://www.tism.net.au/tism-1) follow -

With its lesser dynamic range, worse signal-to-noise ratio, inferior channel separation, variation in playback speed, limited sound capacity, and susceptibility to heat, dust and damge, vinyl is an inexplicably re-emerging gimmick for pox-addled hair-lipped shut-ins who are trying too hard to compensate for their goitered lives.

But why pay for multiple TISM albums in vinyl format when you can buy only one? The TISM Omni-Album is an all-purpose album cover containing liner notes, artwork and song listings suitable for all six TISM albums. The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album comes with an actual vinyl disc, filled with 100 minutes of total silence, so as not to detract from the sound quality and thereby allowing you to savour the full vinyl experience: you will extract the soon-to-be scratched disc from the soon-to-be bent cover, place it on a revolving turntable powered by the latest in 1920s technology, and then attempt to drop a tiny, fragile and expensive needle on to an inconsistently revolving wax groove.

With the TISM Deluxe Omni-Album, all the features of analogue listening are yours: turntable rumble, extraneous cartridge noise, clicks and pops as the stylus hits dust, and of course, the repetitive insanity of a needle endlessly skipping over the permanently damaged surface. And remember, with The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album's carefully mastered total silence, you can listen to TISM's music in any non-analogue format you choose (these formats are available for separate purchase.) The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album is the ultimate TISM listening experience.

Needless to say, as a fan I picked up a copy... And if it’s not clear, TISM spent their entire career taking the piss out of popular culture, their fans and themselves (they have a song called ‘TISM Are Shit’, so none of it is to be taken that seriously).

Max
11-01-2020, 08:44 PM
I thought posters to this thread might appreciate this.

My favourite Australian band TISM are releasing their first work in almost twenty years, and it’s a 100 minute album on vinyl, which consists solely of silence. The relevant parts of the press release (https://www.tism.net.au/tism-1) follow -

With its lesser dynamic range, worse signal-to-noise ratio, inferior channel separation, variation in playback speed, limited sound capacity, and susceptibility to heat, dust and damge, vinyl is an inexplicably re-emerging gimmick for pox-addled hair-lipped shut-ins who are trying too hard to compensate for their goitered lives.

But why pay for multiple TISM albums in vinyl format when you can buy only one? The TISM Omni-Album is an all-purpose album cover containing liner notes, artwork and song listings suitable for all six TISM albums. The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album comes with an actual vinyl disc, filled with 100 minutes of total silence, so as not to detract from the sound quality and thereby allowing you to savour the full vinyl experience: you will extract the soon-to-be scratched disc from the soon-to-be bent cover, place it on a revolving turntable powered by the latest in 1920s technology, and then attempt to drop a tiny, fragile and expensive needle on to an inconsistently revolving wax groove.

With the TISM Deluxe Omni-Album, all the features of analogue listening are yours: turntable rumble, extraneous cartridge noise, clicks and pops as the stylus hits dust, and of course, the repetitive insanity of a needle endlessly skipping over the permanently damaged surface. And remember, with The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album's carefully mastered total silence, you can listen to TISM's music in any non-analogue format you choose (these formats are available for separate purchase.) The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album is the ultimate TISM listening experience.

Needless to say, as a fan I picked up a copy... And if it’s not clear, TISM spent their entire career taking the piss out of popular culture, their fans and themselves (they have a song called ‘TISM Are Shit’, so none of it is to be taken that seriously).

That's hilarious. I own and play vinyl, and sometimes I wonder why. It is a LOT of trouble and a couple years into it I still doubt the whole experience. But then again, since the internet seems to be causing the destruction of the whole world and flooding us with misinformation and enslaving us to social media, maybe these plastic discs will be the only thing we care about in 20 years when we lives down in the tunnels.

tony.parente
11-02-2020, 08:57 AM
I thought posters to this thread might appreciate this.

My favourite Australian band TISM are releasing their first work in almost twenty years, and it’s a 100 minute album on vinyl, which consists solely of silence. The relevant parts of the press release (https://www.tism.net.au/tism-1) follow -

With its lesser dynamic range, worse signal-to-noise ratio, inferior channel separation, variation in playback speed, limited sound capacity, and susceptibility to heat, dust and damge, vinyl is an inexplicably re-emerging gimmick for pox-addled hair-lipped shut-ins who are trying too hard to compensate for their goitered lives.

But why pay for multiple TISM albums in vinyl format when you can buy only one? The TISM Omni-Album is an all-purpose album cover containing liner notes, artwork and song listings suitable for all six TISM albums. The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album comes with an actual vinyl disc, filled with 100 minutes of total silence, so as not to detract from the sound quality and thereby allowing you to savour the full vinyl experience: you will extract the soon-to-be scratched disc from the soon-to-be bent cover, place it on a revolving turntable powered by the latest in 1920s technology, and then attempt to drop a tiny, fragile and expensive needle on to an inconsistently revolving wax groove.

With the TISM Deluxe Omni-Album, all the features of analogue listening are yours: turntable rumble, extraneous cartridge noise, clicks and pops as the stylus hits dust, and of course, the repetitive insanity of a needle endlessly skipping over the permanently damaged surface. And remember, with The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album's carefully mastered total silence, you can listen to TISM's music in any non-analogue format you choose (these formats are available for separate purchase.) The TISM Deluxe Omni-Album is the ultimate TISM listening experience.

Needless to say, as a fan I picked up a copy... And if it’s not clear, TISM spent their entire career taking the piss out of popular culture, their fans and themselves (they have a song called ‘TISM Are Shit’, so none of it is to be taken that seriously).

If that press release isn't directly inspired by the pretentious not at all tongue in cheek vinyl mission statement i'll eat my shoe haha

Also I feel like they asked Helpmeiaminhell to write the first section of that description.

Max
05-28-2021, 10:04 AM
Hey poopy diaper people - for those of you complaining for years about no CD’s, there are a bunch of CDs on sale at the NIN.com store. Limited supplies. Today is your day.

Jinsai
05-29-2021, 10:14 AM
Hey poopy diaper people - for those of you complaining for years about no CD’s, there are a bunch of CDs on sale at the NIN.com store. Limited supplies. Today is your day.

While we're talking about outdated media formats though, I definitely would have grabbed one of those Closure laser discs before they sold out.

botley
05-29-2021, 01:08 PM
As someone who did a pro-quality digital transfer of "The Day the World Went Away" cassingle for the sadly departed WHAT.CD tracker, purely for the "Starfuckers" mix exclusive to that release, I would have been alllll over a "Reptile" cassette. But, alas...

fillow
05-29-2021, 04:50 PM
"Starfuckers" mix exclusive to that release
Say what now
It's different from CD?

botley
05-29-2021, 05:20 PM
Say what now
It's different from CD?
Yep... full ending, with the crowd chanting to fadeout but no "Complication" guitar riff.

halo eighteen
06-18-2021, 03:54 AM
With Teeth DE looks like it's gotten another batch; back in stock at both Amazon and NIN store US.

Mank
06-20-2021, 02:22 AM
As someone who did a pro-quality digital transfer of "The Day the World Went Away" cassingle for the sadly departed WHAT.CD tracker, purely for the "Starfuckers" mix exclusive to that release, I would have been alllll over a "Reptile" cassette. But, alas...

I miss that site. Never found someone who had an alternative. I would totally post some rare stuff on there.

TheBang
06-20-2021, 04:25 AM
I miss that site. Never found someone who had an alternative. I would totally post some rare stuff on there.
Like what?

Erneuert
06-20-2021, 07:31 AM
Like what?

I second this.

neorev
06-20-2021, 01:59 PM
As someone who did a pro-quality digital transfer of "The Day the World Went Away" cassingle for the sadly departed WHAT.CD tracker, purely for the "Starfuckers" mix exclusive to that release, I would have been alllll over a "Reptile" cassette. But, alas...

I'm confused, why rip the tape when the TDTWWA CD single also have this crowd outro mix as well? They 3 track digipack with the Quiet mix. Starfuckers has that crowd outro. Is the cassette version different?

botley
06-20-2021, 02:49 PM
I'm confused, why rip the tape when the TDTWWA CD single also have this crowd outro mix as well? They 3 track digipack with the Quiet mix. Starfuckers has that crowd outro. Is the cassette version different?

Yes, it is. As I explained above, there is no "Complication" intro mixed with the crowd on the cassette.

neorev
06-20-2021, 04:02 PM
Yes, it is. As I explained above, there is no "Complication" intro mixed with the crowd on the cassette.

I never noticed the Complication riff, but, yea, it's quietly there in the background. Probably cuz once the album came out, I mainly listened to the album version.

At least now we can just splice our own HQ version between The Fragile remaster and Deviations version of Starfuckers, Inc. To be honest, I prefer the CD version of The Fragile with the way tracks blend and flow into each other, but the way Starfuckers, Inc. just ends and chopping 10 Miles High intro always irked me. But the CD mixing helps enhance the journey feel of the whole album.

Leviathant
06-20-2021, 05:22 PM
Yes, it is. As I explained above, there is no "Complication" intro mixed with the crowd on the cassette.

I want to pause here to appreciate all the weird minor differences between TDTWWA & Starfuckers between the CD single, the cassingle, the double-CD album version, and the 3xLP album version. It was kind of maddening but also kinda fun to chase down and identify.

botley
06-21-2021, 07:28 AM
I want to pause here to appreciate all the weird minor differences between TDTWWA & Starfuckers between the CD single, the cassingle, the double-CD album version, and the 3xLP album version. It was kind of maddening but also kinda fun to chase down and identify.


Don't forget the "Starsuckers" promo!

spahn
06-21-2021, 08:26 AM
Don't forget the "Starsuckers" promo!

I just did a massive inventory of my collection and holy crap...you forget how many versions are out there. Kinda like the Closer to God singles part 1 with black disc, white disc, etc. etc. and MOTP singles as well.

Leviathant
06-21-2021, 01:46 PM
Don't forget the "Starsuckers" promo!

Is that an order?

botley
06-21-2021, 02:20 PM
Is that an order?
Don't you....
Don't you....
Don't you....
Don't you.... forget about me!

eversonpoe
06-25-2021, 03:08 PM
Don't you....
Don't you....
Don't you....
Don't you.... forget about me!

please make this mashup

Mank
06-29-2021, 02:56 AM
I miss that site. Never found someone who had an alternative. I would totally post some rare stuff on there.

A few NIN/TRAR tracks, and some of other artists as well. But like I said I never found an alternative and I got on ? without even meaning to (I got a surprise invite afterward from a person who asked a big favor).