Mank (2020)

[Arkadin]

Fincher is doing Mank for Netflix. Filming to start this fall. As of this typing, Reznor/Ross have not been named as composers of the score, but it seems likely. The only reason I have any doubts is that this is a black and white biopic that will mostly take place in the 1930s and 40s. Not the type of subject matter that one would associate with an electronic score--and maybe it won't be. By the way, TR has stated his admiration for the Taxi Driver score, composed by Bernard Herrmann, who composed the score for Citizen Kane.

[bobbie solo]

wild speculation!

[ltrandazzo]

Yeah, I'm gonna put this one on lock until there's an actual announcement.

[arsenic]

Still not an official announcement but Gabi Ruiz, director of Primavera Sound, mentioned in an interview that TR+AR are scoring Fincher's next movie.
World War Z 2 was reportedly cancelled, so it can only be this one


Sources:
(https://old.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/dp5p2b/nin_to_score_finchers_new_movie/)/r/nin (https://old.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/dp5p2b/nin_to_score_finchers_new_movie/)
/r/primaverasound
(https://old.reddit.com/r/primaverasound/comments/dodkb8/qa_with_festival_director_gabi_ruiz_wednesday/)

[Patrick_Nicholas]

It's pretty much official (https://www.revolvermag.com/music/nine-inch-nails-9-things-we-learned-our-visit-trent-reznors-studio). TR is aiming for a "period appropriate" score, rather than an electronic score. No modular synths.

[BRoswell]

It's pretty much official (https://www.revolvermag.com/music/nine-inch-nails-9-things-we-learned-our-visit-trent-reznors-studio). TR is aiming for a "period appropriate" score, rather than an electronic score. No modular synths.

This is pretty exciting! I'm eager to see them step further outside their comfort zone with this score.

[Jon]

It's pretty much official (https://www.revolvermag.com/music/nine-inch-nails-9-things-we-learned-our-visit-trent-reznors-studio). TR is aiming for a "period appropriate" score, rather than an electronic score. No modular synths.

Six Degrees of Trent Reznor: Bernard Herrmann did the score for Citizen Kane. He also did the music for the Twilight Zone episode, "Where Is Everybody?".

[3knic]

This can end up being really cool, it definitely has my interest piqued.

I found an interesting site that has electronic instruments from 1930-1940 and I can totally see Trent and Atticus rocking out to this contraption - the Marimbalite from 1935

http://120years.net/photo-electric-marimba-or-marimbalite-dr-phillips-thomas-usa-1935/

https://i0.wp.com/120years.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/marimbalite.jpg

[onthewall2983]

I hope this is a full-on orchestra. Their quirks in what they do with the electronic instruments could translate to some of the strange noises you can make with classical instruments.

[StockAvuryah]

Ah fuck this won't be in theaters

[tricil]

Ah fuck this won't be in theaters

It will be at home instead. :)

[onthewall2983]

Wait and see it might get some sort of limited release.

[tricil]

Wait and see it might get some sort of limited release.

It’s a Netflix film.

[Jon]

It’s a Netflix film.

Netflix has ramped up limited theatrical releases in an effort to increase their legitimacy for industry awards.

Also, Germany and/or France have a (decent) chance of seeing a physical release (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=315550) for this.

[onthewall2983]

Maybe in the US too. Criterion is putting out Roma in February, and I'm sure Scorsese will want some kind of home video release for The Irishman. ​

[fillow]

I wonder if they consider using theremin. And if Charlie would be up for collaboration on this.

[botley]

^ LOL, Charlie has admitted that he actually can't play the Theremin without using AutoTune (https://8dio.com/2011/12/03/interview-with-charlie-clouser/).

[allegate]

^ LOL, Charlie has admitted that he actually can't play the Theremin without using AutoTune (https://8dio.com/2011/12/03/interview-with-charlie-clouser/).sent me down a google-hole on that. found this comment on a theremin video on youtube:
Gregg Reed

I'm here because of a joke I just read. "I'm thinking about selling my theremin. I haven't touched it in years."

[WorzelG]

Interview with a Awards Daily about various scoring projects
https://www.awardsdaily.com/2020/05/29/trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross-on-scoring-watchmen-david-fincher-and-their-upcoming-pixar-film/

[michaelmilani]

Is there any update on this? I hope to god it doesn't get pushed to next year.

[3knic]

Is there any update on this? I hope to god it doesn't get pushed to next year.It is slated for a release sometime in October

https://www.slashfilm.com/mank-release-date/

[michaelmilani]

It is slated for a release sometime in October

https://www.slashfilm.com/mank-release-date/

Thank god. I was worried. Everything NIN related is getting pushed/delayed. Good to hear this!

[cdm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vr4T0vd5-o&feature=emb_title

I know this has been posted in three or four other places but there's some good insight on Mank in here (most of which was new to me).

Highlights:

1. Strictly composing, TR & AR will not be playing the music.
2. TR & AR mostly working in separate rooms in TR's home studio, taking measures seriously if they have to be in the same room.
3. Done almost completely remotely. TR & AR overseeing a socially distanced orchestra.
4. Still wrapping up the score as of the time of interview.

[zecho]

Does this mark the first time that the music is to be performed by others and not TR & AR?

[BRoswell]

They brought in a small orchestra for parts of Gone Girl, but yeah, this will be the first time they don't actually play anything on the score.

[3knic]

Very interesting news. Good for them but kind of lack luster for me I suppose

[sonic_discord]

They used an orchestra for one of the Call of Duty: Black Ops II themes, as well.

[paul_guyet]

Why is 'socially distanced orchestra' the PERFECT name for Reznor & Ross' orchestra?

[wizfan]

Why is 'socially distanced orchestra' the PERFECT name for Reznor & Ross' orchestra?

Imagine an all-orchestral cover of Better Alone, Trent's "anti-Valentine's Day" Spotify playlist.

[paul_guyet]

Imagine an all-orchestral cover of Better Alone, Trent's "anti-Valentine's Day" Spotify playlist.Jesus fuck...

[botley]

Jesus fuck...
[...ed] on Ecstacy!

[BRoswell]

1302275318619623425

New images from the film. I imagine we'll be getting a trailer soon.

[BRoswell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_NqUYwngr0

[cahernandez]

The teaser is out, you can hear a few seconds of the film score (someone beat me to it!)

[WorzelG]

And so it begins, the beginning of the Oscar season press push. I get the impression Netflix would love a best picture Oscar. I just hope some of the interviewers ask how new NIN is coming along

[sonic_discord]

Still no release date? Last I heard this was supposed to be released in October. Anyone know if it's been pushed back to November or December?

[spahn]

Still no release date? Last I heard this was supposed to be released in October. Anyone know if it's been pushed back to November or December?

I think i read a 12/04 release date.

Source: https://collider.com/mank-netflix-release-date-david-fincher/

[fillow]

This score is gonna be amazing.
And it will open the door for tons of new offers to do not just electronic, but orchestral scores too in the future.

[MrLobster]

https://twitter.com/trent_reznor/status/1314276047857180672

[MrLobster]

This score is gonna be amazing.
And it open the door for tons of new offers to do not just electronic, but orchestral scores too in the future.

It also sounds like a guy who has watched/heard a lot (a lot, a lot) of movies... this is not a bad thing.

[versusreality]

wow that movie looks great, score sounds great (and very un- TRAR like, which makes me even more intrigued)

[eversonpoe]

holy shit.

i...am literally crying.

[MrLobster]

I've just heard that the movie will be mixed into mono as well... I wonder if the soundtrack when released will also be in mono.

[otnavuskire]

https://www.thewhitewinecameupwiththefish.com/

A slideshow of behind the scenes photos with some possible music from the score in the background?

I didn't go through all the photos, but TRAR make an appearance on day 204.

[WorzelG]

https://www.thewhitewinecameupwiththefish.com/

A slideshow of behind the scenes photos with some possible music from the score in the background?

I didn't go through all the photos, but TRAR make an appearance on day 204.
I JUST put that in nin spotting without looking here because I feel like more people look there, so this is where that zoom photo came from?

[slave2thewage]

Score excerpt on the site is confirmed by TR on Twitter.

Intriguing. Hopefully this gets a physical release.

[caca]

Holy shit! This is outstanding. Reminds me of Bernard Herrmann.

[versusreality]

sounds incredible. classic hollywood done by TRAR, holy shit do they pull it off.

that score's going to win a ton of awards and propel them even further in the industry.

[Jon]

Here's a direct link to the background music; you can also download it:

https://nflx-microsite-pub-twwcuwtf-uploads-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/v200810.mp3

Track is marked with the date 8/10/2020

[cdm]

It's mind-blowing to hear this music and know it came from the brains of TR + AR. It shouldn't be...but it is. Really beautiful stuff.

[xfocalinx]

this website really gives me feelings of the girl with the dragon tattoo ARG

[Tom]

Super hyped for this after listening to the teaser snippet on the big rig - strong Debussy vibes.

[sonic_discord]

Wow, they've SO CONVINCINGLY mimicked this musical style. They've "pulled a Gary Oldman" (ironically) and disappeared into their role for this movie. If I didn't know it was them, I wouldn't have guessed. Only sometimes does the piano sound like some of their other work.

[BRoswell]

Beautiful stuff. Curious to know if they brought back Mike Garson to do some piano work like they did for Gone Girl. Guess we'll have to wait until the score comes out to know for sure.

[Callahan]

I really want to watch some behind the scenes footage of them creating this! Especially with them using instruments from that time period as well. But they are really knocking it out of the park with this score.

[cdm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vr4T0vd5-o&feature=emb_title

I know this has been posted in three or four other places but there's some good insight on Mank in here (most of which was new to me).

Highlights:

1. Strictly composing, TR & AR will not be playing the music.
2. TR & AR mostly working in separate rooms in TR's home studio, taking measures seriously if they have to be in the same room.
3. Done almost completely remotely. TR & AR overseeing a socially distanced orchestra.
4. Still wrapping up the score as of the time of interview.


I really want to watch some behind the scenes footage of them creating this! Especially with them using instruments from that time period as well.

They were strictly the composers on this. See above.
Callahan i looked at this again and it read terse and kinda prickish. That wasn't intended...sorry for that.

[fillow]

They were strictly the composers on this. See above.
All we need is someone from the performers screencapturing all those zoom calls. BOOM documentary ready.

[WorzelG]

Even if they didn’t play what was on the film, surely some demoing of individual parts must have gone on before it was sent to the orchestra (or however they do it!) just to compose it.

[Jon]

Even if they didn’t play what was on the film, surely some demoing of individual parts must have gone on before it was sent to the orchestra (or however they do it!) just to compose it.

Orchestral scores are traditionally started as what is called a "sketch". You can also perform these sketches with a piano (or two), which is known as a reduction. I'd wager that there are at least piano reductions out there (not counting on them seeing the light of day).

[simonn]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I don't have time to watch that Watchmen special posted above again - but do they say within that video that they don't play anything on it, or is that info from elsewhere - as I don't recall that being said within that video. If so, someone got a time stamp?

Comparisons to TGWTDT ARG, definitely getting that vibe. I remember hearing One Particular Moment for the first time on one of the sites, and it just played over and over, I must have just had it on repeat for 3 hours while doing other stuff...I've just done the same with this - well, an hour anyway...would it be my new go-to TR/AR soundtrack based on those 10 minutes or so? Probably not. Did I like any of it? Definitely.

[fillow]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I don't have time to watch that Watchmen special posted above again - but do they say within that video that they don't play anything on it, or is that info from elsewhere - as I don't recall that being said within that video. If so, someone got a time stamp?

43:20

[simonn]

Must've tuned out, it's clear as day!! Ta, Fillow.

[Indefinite_Cure]

I am out of words. I can't believe the music I'm hearing on that website comes from Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross. This is amazing. Amazing. Stunning.

[Findus]

This Mank segment was featured on CBS Sunday Morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udKyfoC2fBI

[Max]

I adore NIN and Trent Reznor, i have for years, and I am a HUGE fan of both recent NIN and score work. Watchmen was utterly brilliant and I can't get enough of the score or the show. I went to the site for Mank and I listened to it and I was stunned by how beautiful the music is, how much they nailed it. The movie looks really amazing, very artistic and very well executed. I am sure it is incredible. Like a modern Citizen Kane.

Okay, now this is where I am going to burn, but I am going to say it anyway... I am bothered that this movie has an entirely white cast about a period in our history that edited out people of color and pushed them to the margins in every way. Where are Mexican, Black, Asian men and women in any of these scenes? Well realistically, they wouldn't have been there right? So then how much do we need a story that celebrates these "good old days" in a year where so many racists are trying to take us back there?

Will I watch Mank? Maybe. Does it look amazing? Yes it does. Does it cut people of color right out completely in every way, and put a story out there that makes a SUPER racist time period look pretty awesome? Yeah, it sure does.

I'm not saying Mank is bad, I have only seen the trailer. I am not saying Trent or Fincher or anyone involved are bad people, or that you should boycott it or ANYTHING like that. I am not trying to take a dump in the party punch bowl here.

But until we notice this, until we talk about it and question it and wonder whose stories are not being told, it is never going to change.

Trent chose to work with Damon Linderoff on Watchmen. Linderoff filled the writer's room with people of color to help him tell a real story that history had edited out. Yay Damon. Yay Trent. I am not overlooking this. It's huge. I am not overlooking all the good projects Trent and Atticus have done.

All I am saying is let's just ask questions. Let's notice. Let's think. Let's be critical of ourselves and try to grow. That's it.

[GibbonBlack]

According to IMDB "News Reel 2" is played a man of colour. Crisis averted!

[BRoswell]

You're right to point out that the story behind Mank is filled with white people, and to point out how POC were persecuted back then, but what exactly did you expect this film to do? That's just the truth of the story. I don't think Fincher or anyone else involved with the film is trying to whitewash history. I certainly don't see the film as some sort of celebration of that time period, especially with all the backstabbing and power grabs going on. Is it terrible that POC were treated the way they were back then? Yes. Does this story have anything to do with it? No. You can't shoehorn in equality into a story when there was none.

[Findus]

Here's an article on the sound design of Mank. The only mention of the score is about the music being recorded with older microphones "so it has a sort of sizzle and wheeze around the edges".
https://collider.com/david-fincher-mank-netflix-sound-design-inspiration/

[WorzelG]

I adore NIN and Trent Reznor, i have for years, and I am a HUGE fan of both recent NIN and score work. Watchmen was utterly brilliant and I can't get enough of the score or the show. I went to the site for Mank and I listened to it and I was stunned by how beautiful the music is, how much they nailed it. The movie looks really amazing, very artistic and very well executed. I am sure it is incredible. Like a modern Citizen Kane.

Okay, now this is where I am going to burn, but I am going to say it anyway... I am bothered that this movie has an entirely white cast about a period in our history that edited out people of color and pushed them to the margins in every way. Where are Mexican, Black, Asian men and women in any of these scenes? Well realistically, they wouldn't have been there right? So then how much do we need a story that celebrates these "good old days" in a year where so many racists are trying to take us back there?

Will I watch Mank? Maybe. Does it look amazing? Yes it does. Does it cut people of color right out completely in every way, and put a story out there that makes a SUPER racist time period look pretty awesome? Yeah, it sure does.

I'm not saying Mank is bad, I have only seen the trailer. I am not saying Trent or Fincher or anyone involved are bad people, or that you should boycott it or ANYTHING like that. I am not trying to take a dump in the party punch bowl here.

But until we notice this, until we talk about it and question it and wonder whose stories are not being told, it is never going to change.

Trent chose to work with Damon Linderoff on Watchmen. Linderoff filled the writer's room with people of color to help him tell a real story that history had edited out. Yay Damon. Yay Trent. I am not overlooking this. It's huge. I am not overlooking all the good projects Trent and Atticus have done.

All I am saying is let's just ask questions. Let's notice. Let's think. Let's be critical of ourselves and try to grow. That's it.
Maybe you should give Fincher a break since the script was by his dead dad and was supposed to be filmed in the late 90s. It’s clearly taken a long time to get the green light.

and also when they were involved in Soul they got accused of appropriation. So maybe they can’t win?

[cdm]

Maybe you should give Fincher a break since the script was by his dead dad and was supposed to be filmed in the late 90s. It’s clearly taken a long time to get the green light.

and also when they were involved in Soul they got accused of appropriation. So maybe they can’t win?

There's nothing wrong with thinking critically about things like this. Seeing the movie will probably explain a lot and if it doesn't Fincher should have to answer for it. Re: Soul, the appropriation cries were from people talking out their asses knowing nothing about the different musical scopes.

Besides "Someone else wrote this and it's long delayed so therefore I have no responsibility to consider equal representation." is kinda bogus and shame on anyone if they try to float that as an explanation.

[BRoswell]

...and if it doesn't Fincher should have to answer for it.

Answer for what exactly? Not having POC in a story that they had no involvement in? If you guys want to dig up evidence that POC were specifically excluded from this story, go ahead, but it seems to me that you're making it a target simply because it's a period piece with a predominantly white cast, which is only the case because the people involved were...well...white. Is it territory that is well worn at this point? Sure, but that's not the fault of this film alone, and considering the narrow scope of the story, asking it to deal with an incredibly sensitive issue that, frankly, deserves more than just a glance in a film like this is kind of ridiculous.

[cdm]

Answer for what exactly? Not having POC in a story that they had no involvement in?


Seeing the movie will probably explain a lot and if it doesn't Fincher should have to answer for it.

As in maybe ask him a question or two about it the countless press junkets surely on the horizon? Is that controversial?

[BRoswell]

As in maybe ask him a question or two about it the countless press junkets surely on the horizon? Is that controversial?

What do you want him to say that we don't already know?

[WorzelG]

Besides "Someone else wrote this and it's long delayed so therefore I have no responsibility to consider equal representation." is kinda bogus and shame on anyone if they try to float that as an explanation.

That ‘someone else’ is David Fincher’s actual father FFS so shame on Fincher I suppose if he doesn’t cancel this labour of love tribute to his dead father he’s been trying to get off the ground since the 90s because some people on a NIN forum go around looking for slights against minorities where there are none. Jesus Christ

[cdm]

What do you want him to say that we don't already know?

Don't already know? No one here has seen the movie yet. Just a slideshow of a majority white cast. Max was very diplomatic in the way he pointed it out and it's a fair observation. I'm a Fincher fan and have an open mind regarding the story and casting decisions but he's not above criticism if it's warranted.

[Max]

My point is not to say that people of color should be shoe-horned into a period piece. My point is to ask why do we need that story? Why do we need that period piece? Why, in 2020, do we want to tell any more stories about wealthy racist white people, when there are no many amazing stories left untold?

and if we still think we need the story, if this is so necessary and desirable, then let’s just at least face it. Look at the cast and just learn to see the obvious. Learn to be comfortable talking about it and asking questions.

again, not calling for a boycott or saying anything bad about anyone. Go follow Saul Williams on Twitter or IG and see the kinds of things he posts about, the questions he asks about history and how we tell it. Listen to his music and hear him talking about The Noise Came From Here. Read his books and see what we are missing.

not every white story is a bad story. But a lot of times we can’t even see that this is a white story. I am pointing that out and people are getting mad about it, which shows just how uncomfortable we are with seeing whiteness and naming it. Seeing bias and talking about it.

how can we change if we aren’t even willing to see or hear?

I am just making it impossible for you to ignore it now, you can’t un-know it now. That’s good because people of color don’t have a choice to ignore it.

Reznor and Fincher are geniuses. But we all have room to grow, myself included. Let’s be open to it. Evolution and growth and caring about people who society mistreats, are the most NIN values I know.

[cdm]

That ‘someone else’ is David Fincher’s actual father FFS so shame on Fincher I suppose if he doesn’t cancel this labour of love tribute to his dead father he’s been trying to get off the ground since the 90s because some people on a NIN forum go around looking for slights against minorities where there are none. Jesus Christ

What the fuck? No one is fucking cancelling anyone. An observation was made, that the slideshow and trailer were majority white, and was articulated quite well. I had a similar observation and I'd like to know more about it. Will seeing the movie explain a lot of those decisions? Yeah, probably. Will it have missed an opportunity to explain why the cast is nearly all white? I dunno, maybe. If so, I'd like to hear Fincher's take. Pretty fucking reasonable to me.

As for his father's part in this...hypothetically...if you put your name on something you, in part, own the criticism just as much as the accolades. Being his late father's passion project doesn't absolve from criticism if it's warranted, something we'll find out once we see the goddamn movie.

[eversonpoe]

i think the other thing is that, even if you're making a period piece, you are CREATING A PIECE OF ART and you can put WHATEVER and WHOMEVER you want into it. there weren't people of color involved in the making of citizen kane? that's shitty, but you're not making a documentary. idunno. it's like when people say "there were no people of color in the LotR books" and that justifies why every single person in the movie is white (except for deep roy, i guess?) and it's like...it's a FANTASY WORLD. why is it unreasonable to cast some PoC for some roles?

on the other side of this, there's an episode of doctor who (capaldi's run) where the doctor and bill go to victorian(?) london and bill is SHOCKED to see so many people of color, because when you watch movies and tv shows that take place in that time, it's like PoC didn't exist, which is simply a complete misrepresentation of the population of england at the time. it made me so happy to see that on something with such a big reach.

sorry, i'm really fired up about what happened in philly last night and i'm sick of people making excuses for racism, whether overt or casual or just a perpetuation of the systems currently in place.

there's literally no reason why people of color can't or shouldn't be cast in things for "period accuracy." why not improve upon the things that have been historically fucked up?

[WorzelG]

@eversonpoe (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=588) Isn’t shoehorning POC into everything called ‘tokenism’ though and considered a really BAD THING on social media. Also surely Herbert Mankiewicz is Jewish so unless people are saying Jewish people aren’t a repressed minority and have never been persecuted, there’s your minority representation. The film is also about him getting fair credit on a film so for @Max (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6670) to say it’s some Hollywood tooting celebration is ridiculous. The only way it’s celebratory is in the film-making sense.
if Max wants to start a thread in Speak Your Mind about this subject I’d be interested though

[WorzelG]

sorry, i'm really fired up about what happened in philly last night and i'm sick of people making excuses for racism, whether overt or casual or just a perpetuation of the systems currently in place.
Yeah just read what happened in Philadelphia, that’s awful, it’s like why is there never any attempt to deescalate the situation, like the guy only had a knife, are the police so crap at shooting they can’t just shoot his arm or something? It just seems to escalate so often into an execution

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Why are people giving Trent shit about this? He wrote the fuckin music. He's not supposed to get involved with casting. Take it up with Fincher

[eversonpoe]

@eversonpoe (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=588) Isn’t shoehorning POC into everything called ‘tokenism’ though and considered a really BAD THING on social media. Also surely Herbert Mankiewicz is Jewish so unless people are saying Jewish people aren’t a repressed minority and have never been persecuted, there’s your minority representation. The film is also about him getting fair credit on a film so for @Max (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6670) to say it’s some Hollywood tooting celebration is ridiculous. The only way it’s celebratory is in the film making sense.
if Max wants to start a thread in Speak Your Mind about this subject I’d be interested though

yeah you're totally right, i was more talking in general than about this film in specific, and i definitely wasn't clear about that. tokenism is bad, for sure, which is why it's good that people are telling more stories that represent the diversity that's actually present in the world.

also, yeah, agreed on the part of mank himself. as a jew myself, the erasure of jewish persecution in society is baffling to me.

[ninlive]

Here's an article on the sound design of Mank. The only mention of the score is about the music being recorded with older microphones "so it has a sort of sizzle and wheeze around the edges".
https://collider.com/david-fincher-mank-netflix-sound-design-inspiration/

The nerd in me has just exploded. I love this.

There is something about even old concert recordings that just can't be emulated with the mics of today. Hence, why I own some older mics of my favorite recordings I have from the 80s. [I know, not as old as the period of this movie. But still, on the same track]

[TheBang]

i think the other thing is that, even if you're making a period piece, you are CREATING A PIECE OF ART and you can put WHATEVER and WHOMEVER you want into it. there weren't people of color involved in the making of citizen kane?
It's not just a period piece. It's a historical biopic. I expect it to at least mostly accurately represent the characters and situations involved. If Mankiewicz had a black best friend in real life, then I expect his best friend in the movie to be black. If he didn't, then I don't expect one to be shoe-horned in there "for representation". Were there PoC involved in the making of Citizen Kane? I don't know, but if so, then I expect their parts to be accurately represented in the film and not whitewashed. THAT would be problematic.

But the comparison to LotR is ridiculous, as that is a completely fictional work set in a fantasy world. Very different situation from a biopic.

[BRoswell]

If Mankiewicz had a black best friend in real life, then I expect his best friend in the movie to be black. If he didn't, then I don't expect one to be shoe-horned in there "for representation".

Bingo.

[jmtd]

The anger and energy in some of the responses to the mere suggestion that race should be considered is really staggering. And telling.

[Max]

It's not just a period piece. It's a historical biopic. I expect it to at least mostly accurately represent the characters and situations involved. If Mankiewicz had a black best friend in real life, then I expect his best friend in the movie to be black. If he didn't, then I don't expect one to be shoe-horned in there "for representation". Were there PoC involved in the making of Citizen Kane? I don't know, but if so, then I expect their parts to be accurately represented in the film and not whitewashed. THAT would be problematic.

But the comparison to LotR is ridiculous, as that is a completely fictional work set in a fantasy world. Very different situation from a biopic.

I want to reiterate AGAIN that I am not asking for anyone to be "shoe-horned" into the movie. Please go back and read my posts again instead of replying to a straw man. My two major points I am making, yet again:
1. I just want us to be aware that this movie is all-white in the year 2020. This is significant and often people who are white do not even notice this. It doesn't even occur to people. When I was younger I never "saw race" at all and it is part of how we got here. Just be aware of it. Be willing to have a conversation about it, acknowledge it. Face it. That's my main point.
2. If you make it that far, then let's be willing to have a conversation about whose stories get to be told in major films. Who gets the funding. Who green lights the new movies. And yes, who gets to score the films. There are finite resources. Who didn't get their story told? Who didn't get funding? Who gets to make these decisions?
3. NONE of this is a knock on Reznor, Ross, Fincher, Fincher's father, or Mank himself. It isn't about them. It's not about canceling anyone. It's about us. What do we see? What are we willing to talk about. What conversations make us angry? Why do they make us angry?

For example, I randomly ran across this story about Neerja Bhanot, because a friend posted about her.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neerja_Bhanot

She sacrificed her life at the age of 22 to save many others including 42 Americans. No American has made a film about her. She's just one person. There are thousands of other stories we don't know. We all just learned about "Black Wall Street Massacre" through Watchmena hundred years after. Thanks to Ta Nahesi Coates, Damon Linderoff, a room of black writers, and yes, Trent and Atticus.

Who decides what stories are told to us? Who decides who gets to tell them? Are we willing to talk about it, when it is hard to? When it involves our heroes and favorite artists?

I looooooooove Trent Reznor. I have a NIN shirt on right now, one of his records three feet away from me as I right this in a really obscure online forum dedicated to him. And we are exactly the people who have a responsibility to ask questions and have hard conversations.

It's okay to enjoy Mank. It's okay to love the music Trent so painstakingly crafted to match the period. What an achievement. ALSO think critically and ask the big questions. Expand your mind. Listen to artists you might not normally listen to, watch movies that expand your understanding, support artists of color TOO. That's it.

[WorzelG]

You assume too much that people don't think about these things generally, but maybe just want to celebrate this film on this board. I talk about this kind of thing a lot with my husband actually. This may not be about colour specifically but both my boys are autistic so I think a lot about representation in films and books of autistic people - you see my boys aren't the autistic savant geniuses that are depicted everywhere but have a lot of learning issues, so I don't have any answers but I think about representation a lot.

Also the Oscars are changing things up and have announced measures to improve diversity
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/sep/08/oscars-academy-awards-diversity-race-gender

And finally, One Night in Miami and Nomadland are 2 films directed by women of colour which are predicted to do well in best Director and Best Picture categories (and I'm sure there are others)

[BRoswell]

1. I just want us to be aware that this movie is all-white in the year 2020.

Yes, and as you said...


not every white story is a bad story.

So why are you singling out this film? Because Trent & Atticus are involved? Are we now going to go back and criticize them for doing The Social Network too?

Like I said, I get your frustration with films in general and I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but laying all this on one film is just ridiculous, no matter who is involved with it. There are far more egregious examples out there that are more deserving of this kind of ire.

[eversonpoe]

It's not just a period piece. It's a historical biopic. I expect it to at least mostly accurately represent the characters and situations involved. If Mankiewicz had a black best friend in real life, then I expect his best friend in the movie to be black. If he didn't, then I don't expect one to be shoe-horned in there "for representation". Were there PoC involved in the making of Citizen Kane? I don't know, but if so, then I expect their parts to be accurately represented in the film and not whitewashed. THAT would be problematic.

But the comparison to LotR is ridiculous, as that is a completely fictional work set in a fantasy world. Very different situation from a biopic.


yeah you're totally right, i was more talking in general than about this film in specific, and i definitely wasn't clear about that. tokenism is bad, for sure, which is why it's good that people are telling more stories that represent the diversity that's actually present in the world.

also, yeah, agreed on the part of mank himself. as a jew myself, the erasure of jewish persecution in society is baffling to me.

thanks for ignoring my follow-up post and making me feel like an asshole!

[TheBang]

I want to reiterate AGAIN that I am not asking for anyone to be "shoe-horned" into the movie. Please go back and read my posts again instead of replying to a straw man.
And if you read my post, you'd see that I wasn't responding to your post.


thanks for ignoring my follow-up post and making me feel like an asshole!
Well, in your follow-up post said you were "more talking in general than about this film in specific", but your original paragraph I replied to literally addressed a "period piece" about the "making of citizen kane", so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[eversonpoe]

And if you read my post, you'd see that I wasn't responding to your post.


Well, in your follow-up post said you were "more talking in general than about this film in specific", but your original paragraph I replied to literally addressed a "period piece" about the "making of citizen kane", so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

fair enough. sorry for being combative. sometimes i have hot takes and they're wrong, and i'm totally willing to admit that.

anyway, i'm really looking forward to watching this and hearing the score.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

When is this getting released? The music (and the film itself) is absolutely amazing, especially if you love the films of old Hollywood. It says at the end of the film’s credits that it’s available from The Null Corporation, but..?

[botley]

My guess is early December to tie in with the film's streaming release.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

That’s what I’m thinking, too. The music is fantastic and they captured the time period perfectly. It sounds jazzy and exuberant but also dark and ominous at times. The final composition that plays during the second half of the end credits is a piano piece and it’s the only thing that reminded me of anything they’d ever done previously..

There were only three of us in the entire theater. If you’re willing to brave society — and a public place — and this is playing anywhere near you on the big screen, go see it..

[botley]

No thanks.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Your loss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[fillow]

I would go in a heartbeat (and in a mask), but movies from streaming services almost never reach our theaters.
The only TRAR films we got here were TSN, Dragon Tattoo, Gone Girl and Mid 90s.

[sonic_discord]

Why would you risk that right now when you can just watch it on Netflix next Friday? I mean I'd like to see it on the big screen and everything, but it's also just a movie and not worth rolling the dice over.

[botley]

Why would you risk that right now when you can just watch it on Netflix next Friday? I mean I'd like to see it on the big screen and everything, but it's also just a movie and not worth rolling the dice over.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/013/137/Naamloos-1.jpg

[Prettybrokenspiral]

“A terrible thing, to live in fear..”

Morgan Freeman, The Shawshank Redemption

[allegate]

it's also pretty terrible to die with a respirator in your lungs but what do I know.

[sonic_discord]

Making tiny "first world problem" sacrifices like waiting an extra week and a half to watch a movie in order to avoid potential exposure to a virus that's killed 1.4 million people and left countless others with permanent or lasting damage — not to mention costly hospital bills — is not equivalent to "living in fear." It's being careful, being considerate of others, and simply not being a dumbass.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I never knew going to see a movie in a virtually empty theater that was sanitized beyond belief both before and after the showing would trigger so many people based on my mere recommendation to go and see it, but hey..my life, my choice, I guess..

It really is a great film and I’m glad I got to see it on the big screen. We stopped for gelato on the way out, too. If these things make me a dumbass or a piece of shit to some, then so be it..

[allegate]

you just picked the wrong word...or quote, I guess...for your argument. fear is not what is guiding a lot of people's decisions to not do these things. like sonic_discord says, it's just easier to watch it on my own time in my own home than it is to go out. there are so many people in the world that I could come in contact with on the way to a theater vs. sitting in my living room.

[cdm]

If these things make me a dumbass or a piece of shit to some, then so be it..

It's not those things specifically.

[botley]

I'd be willing to see this in a theatre next year, at an encore screening or something like that, after I've been vaccinated and community spread has dropped back to zero. Not before. Just my stance on this.

[Mr. Blaileen]

This sounds amazing and I want it all in my earholes.

[bobbie solo]

saw Tenet on election night in (L)Imax in a pretty empty theater. If a big enough theater was showing this and only had a few people in it (which a movie like Mank is this current environment def. would have), it's completely safe if you're away from people and everyone is wearing their mask most of the movie.

[botley]

That sounds lovely. Unfortunately, I can't teleport into a nearly empty theatre for two hours while my kid is napping.

[wizfan]

A friend of mine watched it yesterday. She told me TR/AR's music doesn't sound like their usual stuff, until maybe the final scenes. That makes me happy. Our boys have grown so much :')

[kargath]

saw Tenet on election night in (L)Imax in a pretty empty theater. If a big enough theater was showing this and only had a few people in it (which a movie like Mank is this current environment def. would have), it's completely safe if you're away from people and everyone is wearing their mask most of the movie.The air flow in a typical theater means it doesn't at all matter if it's mostly empty or not. If someone in that theater has it, you're most likely going to get it sitting in there for that kind of duration with them....

I've had two scares at work where my company contact traced to be and i had to go get tested because i came into contact with someone that tested positive. One time was in a decently large conference room (used to seat 50) that only had 8 people in it and we were spread out about as far as possible.

One of my co-workers had extremely bad symptoms and currently can't taste or smell. The other lucked out with minor symptoms.

No one likes being cooped up, but seriously... is your life only worth the price of a movie ticket? Show some self control and wait until the vaccine is widely distributed.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Max]

The air flow in a typical theater means it doesn't at all matter if it's mostly empty or not. If someone in that theater has it, you're most likely going to get it sitting in there for that kind of duration with them....

I've had two scares at work where my company contact traced to be and i had to go get tested because i came into contact with someone that tested positive. One time was in a decently large conference room (used to seat 50) that only had 8 people in it and we were spread out about as far as possible.

One of my co-workers had extremely bad symptoms and currently can't taste or smell. The other lucked out with minor symptoms.

No one likes being cooped up, but seriously... is your life only worth the price of a movie ticket? Show some self control and wait until the vaccine is widely distributed.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Yes, yes, and more yes.

I work on COVID projects for a major academic medical center and I can absolutely vouch for this post. You don't want to be one of the last soldiers on the field getting killed when they are signing the peace treaty. Like we are months away from three different great vaccines rolling out to the public. We've made it this far. Don't go to the movies, or out to eat, or any of that crazy shit. We are right in the thick of the winter surge. Hospitals are overflowing.

Not only should you not do anything to risk COVID, hospitals are being hit so hard you don't want to risk ANYTHING. Drive carefully. Chew your food. Don't drink too much. You do NOT want to end up in the ER right now. You might not make it.

[cahernandez]

Prompted by the release next week I watched Citizen Kane yesterday, and after that I read the Wikipedia article on the movie, lots of great insight, and gave me some idea on what the conflict in Mank will be like. Also, I was wondering last night what was the last movie Fincher did and it was Gone Girl, 6 years ago. Interesting why there's such a gap between projects for Fincher, but I always prefer quality over quantity.

[allegate]

Well, he did work on Love, Death & Robots but that was probably a lot less him than Tim in the end. Though he did bring the second season up in that interview posted so maybe he was more invested in it than I think he was?

[bobbie solo]

The air flow in a typical theater means it doesn't at all matter if it's mostly empty or not. If someone in that theater has it, you're most likely going to get it sitting in there for that kind of duration with them....

I've had two scares at work where my company contact traced to be and i had to go get tested because i came into contact with someone that tested positive. One time was in a decently large conference room (used to seat 50) that only had 8 people in it and we were spread out about as far as possible.

One of my co-workers had extremely bad symptoms and currently can't taste or smell. The other lucked out with minor symptoms.

No one likes being cooped up, but seriously... is your life only worth the price of a movie ticket? Show some self control and wait until the vaccine is widely distributed.

Well I also had Covid already and am still testing positive for the antibodies as of the end of October, so I have a layer of protection, in theory, that others do not. I know some people have gotten infected again, but those appear to outliers. Most experts seem to agree antibodies protect you for a long time, although not fully proven of course.

[WorzelG]

On Thursday there will be a Variety virtual discussion about Soul and Mank that can be signed up for for free

https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48...b097dbc2dc7218 (https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48525e12ac5045a2b2b097dbc2dc7218)

[Damage]

On Thursday there will be a Variety virtual discussion about Soul and Mank that can be signed up for for free

https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48...b097dbc2dc7218 (https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48525e12ac5045a2b2b097dbc2dc7218)

Thanks for sharing this!

[cdm]

On Thursday there will be a Variety virtual discussion about Soul and Mank that can be signed up for for free

https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48...b097dbc2dc7218 (https://ev10.perigonlive.com/1-evt48525e12ac5045a2b2b097dbc2dc7218)

I like how all of the speakers have their full names under their respective thumbnail photos...and then "Trent & Atticus".

Also, Mike Steinberg looks like a John Travolta pic put through FaceApp.

[Toadflax]

Prompted by the release next week I watched Citizen Kane yesterday, and after that I read the Wikipedia article on the movie, lots of great insight, and gave me some idea on what the conflict in Mank will be like. Also, I was wondering last night what was the last movie Fincher did and it was Gone Girl, 6 years ago. Interesting why there's such a gap between projects for Fincher, but I always prefer quality over quantity.

Yeah, I watched Citizen Kane for the first time in 15+ years this week, which definitely feels like required viewing for the best Mank experience.

Fincher's been open about his frustration with studios and being forced to try to play for bigger markets. TGWTDT was supposed to be a trilogy, but the first didn't do well, so the studio killed it. Similar situation with Mindhunter. That said, I'm hoping the deal he recently signed with Netflix means he's not too upset about the Mindhunter situation. He's basically said that we wants an adult playground to be able to play in, and studios like Netflix can offer that in a way the traditional movie studios can't. So here's hoping we're on the cusp of a lot of new Fincher projects hitting our at-home screens.

[sonic_discord]

I don't mean to be the "Ackchyually" guy, but...


TGWTDT was supposed to be a trilogy, but the first didn't do well, so the studio killed it.

It grossed $232.6 million on a $90 million budget, and it got great reviews, so it's considered a commercial and critical success. I don't think TGWTDT under performed, but I think the studio expected or hoped it would make more. That and the fact that Fincher and Daniel Craig are probably pretty expensive (and sequels tend to make less than the initial installment — unless it's an Avengers or Star Wars movie). Plus, they should never have released it on Christmas day (what were they thinking with that?).


Similar situation with Mindhunter. That said, I'm hoping the deal he recently signed with Netflix means he's not too upset about the Mindhunter situation.

From what I've read, it was Fincher's decision (out of respect for the crew) to release the actors and Mindhunter crew from their contracts so they weren't just waiting around for him to finish working on Mank and could find other work in the interim. It sounds like he needed a break from it after stretching himself thin while season 2 production was underway. I read somewhere that Netflix is open to doing a third season and in one of the most recent Fincher interviews, he seems open to returning to it, as well (he mentioned finishing it in the '90s with them arresting BTK). So maybe (hopefully) there's still hope for Mindhunter season 3.


So here's hoping we're on the cusp of a lot of new Fincher projects hitting our at-home screens.

That part sounds fantastic! I'm always looking forward to the next Fincher project and it seems like Netflix will let him do his thing, so sign me up!

[BRoswell]

It grossed $232.6 million on a $90 million budget, and it got great reviews, so it's considered a commercial and critical success. I don't think TGWTDT under performed, but I think the studio expected or hoped it would make more.

From what I understand, Fincher and the studio couldn't agree on a budget for the sequels. The studio wanted to pair down the budget based on how TGWTDT did, and Fincher didn't want to compromise, so he left.

[Toadflax]

It grossed $232.6 million on a $90 million budget, and it got great reviews, so it's considered a commercial and critical success. I don't think TGWTDT under performed, but I think the studio expected or hoped it would make more. That and the fact that Fincher and Daniel Craig are probably pretty expensive (and sequels tend to make less than the initial installment — unless it's an Avengers or Star Wars movie). Plus, they should never have released it on Christmas day (what were they thinking with that?).

It only grossed a little over 100 million domestically, though. Fincher cast people like Joel Kinnaman and Robin Wright in the first movie with the understanding that they would have bigger roles in the sequels, but then they never happened. As BRoswell pointed out, Fincher and the studio couldn't come to an agreement. And I'm using some specific examples, but I'm talking in general about times Fincher has spoken about his frustration with studios giving lots of money to big fun superhero/family movies but then not providing enough of a budget for smart, challenging, adult projects. He said when Sony approached him about TGWTDT, they said do you want to come and make this R-rated challenging trilogy, and he responded with, "I've been waiting my whole life for someone to ask me that." But then the mediocre performance of the first movie was enough to scare them off from keeping the same momentum going.

Basically, it's the same thing you're hearing from Scorsese, Kaufman, Sorkin, and other auteur filmmakers: "I wanted to do a thing; the studios said no; Netflix said yes." So my point is that part of the reason Fincher hasn't made a ton of movies is that he hasn't been able to get them off the ground at a studio level. That said, between 2014 and 2020, he had House of Cards, Love Death + Robots, Mindhunter, and was supposed to direct the World War Z sequel, so it's not like he hasn't had stuff in the works.


From what I've read, it was Fincher's decision (out of respect for the crew) to release the actors and Mindhunter crew from their contracts so they weren't just waiting around for him to finish working on Mank and could find other work in the interim. It sounds like he needed a break from it after stretching himself thin while season 2 production was underway. I read somewhere that Netflix is open to doing a third season and in one of the most recent Fincher interviews, he seems open to returning to it, as well (he mentioned finishing it in the '90s with them arresting BTK). So maybe (hopefully) there's still hope for Mindhunter season 3.

Yeah, whether he was just being safe with his word choice or whether it was his decision, he used language that was more "the money/viewership isn't there" and less "I want to do it but Netflix won't pony up." Either way, it's still an issue of a studio not providing the funding Fincher needs, but hopefully his attitude towards it and the fact he just signed a four-year deal with them means he's found a studio he's happy with, at least for now.

[fillow]

But then the mediocre performance of the first movie was enough to scare them off from keeping the same momentum going.

It's pretty amazing that Villeneuve was allowed to do Dune after BR2049. Did it do better than TGWTDT or worse?

[Fadeout54321]

Soundtrack release info

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2020/12/03/mank-soundtrack-album-details/

https://www.tunefind.com/movie/mank-2020

[Toadflax]

It's pretty amazing that Villeneuve was allowed to do Dune after BR2049. Did it do better than TGWTDT or worse?

Worse!

[Toadflax]

Soundtrack release info

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2020/12/03/mank-soundtrack-album-details/

https://www.tunefind.com/movie/mank-2020

Very cool. 52 tracks at 80-90 minutes. Awesome to see it's being released tomorrow!

[aleywwu]

Soundtrack releasing digitally tomorrow:
http://filmmusicreporter.com/2020/12/03/mank-soundtrack-album-details/

[spahn]

Unless someone captured the video, TR/AR conversation will be posted here tomorrow per the moderator: https://variety.com/t/music-for-screens

[cdm]

Good discussion but not a lot of specific details on Mank, even less on Soul. I think the segment was around 50 minutes and the distribution was probably 40 min Mank / 10 min Soul.

[sonic_discord]

Unless someone captured the video, TR/AR conversation will be posted here tomorrow per the moderator: https://variety.com/t/music-for-screens

Thank you, I had to miss it because of a clusterfuck at work.

[Sarah_Munn]

I was sent a link to the latest issue of Variety after the interview. There is a nice review of Soul, which made more sense, to me anyway, of how a TR&AR score is totally right for it. There is also some Mank film stuff, not soundtrack though.

[p_rez17]

Someone may have uploaded the album early. Says 1:33:01 of music, can't verify its authenticity at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXr4h_DV-aQ

[paul_guyet]

Someone may have uploaded the album early. Says 1:33:01 of music, can't verify its authenticity at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXr4h_DV-aQAccording to Shazam, it's legit. A lot of it is unrecognizable as something TRAR would do except for that last track ("A Rare Bird (Reprise)"). There's also definitely some Badalamenti vibes on there. Interesting to see them not doing them, but again, more excited for Soul.

[cdm]

A lot of it is unrecognizable as something TRAR would do except for that last track ("A Rare Bird (Reprise)").

Wow you're right about that track. Crazy to think Trent wrote but didn't play that piece.

[Toadflax]

According to Shazam, it's legit.

Atticus mentioned on the Variety stream that Scenes From Election Night has Lust For Life-esque drums on it, which totally checks out.

[paul_guyet]

Aaaaaand it's down. I still have the page up though, so it's still working fine for me...

[Horican]

So far - It’s really good
very much unlike anything they’ve ever done - there are spots where I can’t hear them at all to a shocking extant, and spots where while the instrumentation is radically different, you can definitely recognize them (surprisingly strong GWTDT feel at parts)
Doesn’t feel like a pastiche, it has a lot of character, even if it feels period authentic

[paul_guyet]

Here's the tracklist, according to the YT listing:

Welcome to Victorville
Trapped!
All This Time
Enter Menace
First Dictation
A Fool's Paradise
Once More Unto the Breach
About Something
Glendale Station
What's at Stake!
Every Thing You Do
Cowboys and Indians
Presumed Lost
(If Only You Could) Save Me
Means of Escape
All This Time (A White Parasol)
M.G.M
A Respectable Bribe
I, Governor of California
A Leaden Silence
San Simeon Waltz
Time Running Out
Mank-heim
Lend Me a Buck!
You Wanted to See Me!
In Your Arms Again
The Dark Night of the Soul
Clouds Gather
Way Back When
An Idea Takes Hold
Marion's Exit
Absolution
Scenes from Election Night
Election Night-mare
All This Time (Dance Interrupted)
All This Time (Victorious)
I'm Eve
A Rare Bird
Look at What We Did
Menace Returns
Forgive Me
Final Regards
Where Else Would I Be!
The Organ Grinder
All This Time (Not No More)
Costume Party
Dulcinea
Shoot-out at the OK Corral
The Organ Grinder's Monkey
An Act of Purging Violence
All This Time (Happily Ever After)
A Rare Bird (Reprise)

"If Only You Could (Save Me)" has a female vocalist...

[Horican]

If Only You Could is very much a sequel to The Way It Used to Be

[Wulgaren]

listening for the first time, super hyped!!! it sounds phenomenal

[Lerxto]

Is this null 11? Need some help here kraw

[tricil]

Is this null 11? Need some help here kraw

Waves is Null 11. This is likely Null 12.

[Lerxto]

Waves is Null 11. This is likely Null 12.
I mixed up, probably because Watchmen Vol. 3 was released after Waves.
So is Mank null 12 and Soul null 13?

[kraw]

Soul 12
Mank 13

[BRoswell]

Soul 12
Mank 13

Home: 1
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[m0reta]

Wait till 3am EST to buy as it's Bandcamp Friday!!

https://trentreznor-atticusross.bandcamp.com/album/mank-original-musical-score-with-extras

[SchwarzerAbt]

Wait till 3am EST to buy as it's Bandcamp Friday!!

https://trentreznor-atticusross.bandcamp.com/album/mank-original-musical-score-with-extras

Expanded Edition with 87 tracks. Wow. That justfies the 25 $ for a digital album.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Great motherfucking god above. 80+ tracks of music for this..

As a lifelong fan of classic hollywood and film noir, experiencing my absolute favorite musician ever composing a score like this is nothing short of mind-blowing. That it’s this fucking good is just otherworldly. A year ago these dudes were releasing the Watchmen score, and now this..

I can only hope some of this one day sees a vinyl release. TR and AR only continue to amaze and exceed our expectations..

[Cicero]

News on vinyl on NIN.com

[raptors661]

My god, this release is huge. I need to carve out more time to listen to this!

[SchwarzerAbt]

Makes me happy to see TR+AR / The Null Corporation embracing bandcamp. Wonder if they will start releasing their previous releases soon.

[Leviathant]

Wait till 3am EST to buy as it's Bandcamp Friday!!

Oh man, I actually kind of feel for Bandcamp. The timing's pretty coincidental, but I'm imagining the news bouncing around the offices now.

A) "Guys. GUYS. BIG NEWS. The new soundtrack by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross for David Fincher's Netflix film? They've agreed to put an exclusive version up with us! That's huge!"
B) "Oh wow, that's amazing. That film's coming out soon right? I think I saw a trailer."
A) "Yeah, you know what, you're right. It looks like it's going on Netflix on December 4th."
B) "Hang on. The fourth?"
A) "Yeah, why?"
B) "Trent Reznor's first release with us, a 3.5 hour release, gigabytes in size when downloaded losslessly by thousands of fans... is coming out on the first Friday of December?"
A) "..."
B) "..."
A) "Is it too late to cancel Bandcamp Friday?"

[fillow]

My first thought after seeing the tracklist is I wish they'd edit the music into less tracks but longer ones.

[WorzelG]

Bit annoyed as it’s Friday in the UK but no Mank on Netflix yet? Must be set to be released US time or something. I want to watch the film before listening to the music

[Freshcat]

Mank itself is up on Netflix in AUS.

[SchwarzerAbt]

Downloaded in mp3 to listen at work right now. Beautiful, beautiful music. And the Adryon de León feature is a nice surprise amidst the instrumental work.

Will download the flac later, when I get home.

[Tom]

Woh! Delighted to see TR&AR using Bandcamp. Though - what with it also being the final Bandcamp Friday - my wallet is less happy.

Time for Null Corp to start issuing some ultra low run cassettes!

--edit--

Holy shit! This score is stunning. Obviously very different to their previous work, but also so obviously them. And whoever sequenced it did a great job.

[Ascender]

Holy shit, 87 tracks?!?!

[SchwarzerAbt]

Holy shit, 87 tracks?!?!

Clocks in at 3h 32min

[Lerxto]

If the 52 track score was all we got, this could've easily been my least favorite soundtrack. Not that it's bad, but big band jazz music is just not for me.
For that reason I wasn't really looking forward to this score, but the 2 hour TR&AR "demo" stuff will get repeated plays.
That'll be my go-to version if I want to listen to the score they did for Mank.

[SchwarzerAbt]

If the 52 track score was all we got, this could've easily been my least favorite soundtrack. Not that it's bad, but big band jazz music is just not for me.

It's not what I came here for, but so far I like it. Will need some repeated listens to see I can truly appreciate it in the long run. But I'm glad they are branching out a little and explore different genres.

[NIN64]

First impression... It’s terrific!

[3knic]

For some reason this wasn't released on YouTube Music but seems to be everywhere else

Q: are the demos tr+ar or are they done by the orchestra?

[Reznor2112]

I need more money. fuck you 2020 :(

[botley]

My first thought after seeing the tracklist is I wish they'd edit the music into less tracks but longer ones.
Listening to the standard score release on Tidal (I'm going to buy it as well, of course, to get the demos) right now, and I don't think that's necessarily the right way to go. These are all sequenced to flow together pretty nicely, and they likely correspond to individual cues in the film. Excited to watch later today and pore over the full soundtrack this weekend!

[Tom]

Q: are the demos tr+ar or are they done by the orchestra?
They are period authentic, so sound very much in the same vein as the finished versions, though stripped down. But based on Fincher's comments about the first batch of demos he received, I suspect they are TR&AR. But yeah, don't leap on the demos if you're looking to avoid the bigband.

[cdm]

But based on Fincher's comments about the first batch of demos he received, I suspect they are TR&AR. But yeah, don't leap on the demos if you're looking to avoid the bigband.

They confirmed the above during the Variety keynote discussion: the demos are TR & AR, are mostly (maybe entirely) synthetic string / horns / etc sounds.

[Lerxto]

They are period authentic, so sound very much in the same vein as the finished versions, though stripped down. But based on Fincher's comments about the first batch of demos he received, I suspect they are TR&AR. But yeah, don't leap on the demos if you're looking to avoid the bigband.
It's much less big band though. As you said, stripped down.
Some are just TR piano pieces, the ones we're familiar with. I'm getting Gone Girl vibes from some of the demos.
I'd say if you want to avoid the big band stuff and just want to listen to the TR&AR score, skip to track 53.

[fillow]

they likely correspond to individual cues in the film.
I think this is most likely a consequence of the fact that music is actually played by other performers. On the past projects most of the tracks were usually extended/unedited versions of the pieces, because they purposely worked that way. Official soundtracks are much better listening experience than the corresponding FYC versions with shorter edits.

[BRoswell]

Wait till 3am EST to buy as it's Bandcamp Friday!!

https://trentreznor-atticusross.bandcamp.com/album/mank-original-musical-score-with-extras

It's about damn time they jumped on the Bandcamp bandwagon. Waiting to watch the film before I listen to the score, but this is quite an impressive release!

[WorzelG]

They are period authentic, so sound very much in the same vein as the finished versions, though stripped down. But based on Fincher's comments about the first batch of demos he received, I suspect they are TR&AR. But yeah, don't leap on the demos if you're looking to avoid the bigband.
Can I ask where Fincher talks about the first batch of demos he received please? I must have missed that

[imail724]

TRAR doing jazz. This is what I've been waiting for.

[Haysey_Draws]

Yes fucking please!

[SM Rollinger]

It's about damn time they jumped on the Bandcamp bandwagon. Waiting to watch the film before I listen to the score, but this is quite an impressive release!

Yeah I know, finally. I've been saying for years please take my money just give me the files, I get the vinyl thing, even own a few myself, and i still collect and buy cds so I have no room to speak.

Anyways gonna watch the film a few times first before I listen to this.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Bird Box Deluxe, Waves, Watchmen, Ghosts V and VI, Mank and Soul (which will likely be great) all in just over year's time. An incredible wealth of music spanning multiple genres and time periods, without so much as a TR vocal in sight. Not since Coil has a pair of musicians accomplished so much creatively and prolifically with so many different styles of music. It's head-spinning..

[Tom]

My only minor grumble is that they've produced at least some of the pieces as if they were recorded in the 30s; I get it, of course, but I'd love to hear higher fidelity versions. It's a real tease because - listening now on a big system - the pieces that they haven't done this with sound fantastic.

[Tom]

Can I ask where Fincher talks about the first batch of demos he received please? I must have missed that
The source slips my mind I'm afraid - I can't recall whether it was an article or a video. In any case, Fincher said, roughly, that initially he hadn't given them any firm direction and so didn't know what to expect when the first batch of demos arrived, and he was surprised to find that they were period authentic.

[WorzelG]

The source slips my mind I'm afraid - I can't recall whether it was an article or a video. In any case, Fincher said, roughly, that initially he hadn't given them any firm direction and so didn't know what to expect when the first batch of demos arrived, and he was surprised to find that they were period authentic.
Thanks, I’ll have a look

[xolotl]

Hah, man, I hadn't been reading anything about this and was unprepared for the vast stylistic change for this soundtrack. Definitely loving it, as I'm quite fond of this big-band-y kind of sound in general. If I had one complaint about TR+AR's soundtrack work, it's that they've mostly all resided in about the same sort of sonic space -- I'm sure there's lots of soundtrack tracks of theirs where I wouldn't be able to tell you which film they were from. This one stands out wonderfully!

Makes me excited about Soul as well -- I'd been wondering how in the world their usual aesthetic would play in that context.

[cdm]

My only minor grumble is that they've produced at least some of the pieces as if they were recorded in the 30s; I get it, of course, but I'd love to hear higher fidelity versions. It's a real tease because - listening now on a big system - the pieces that they haven't done this with sound fantastic.

They talked about this yesterday. I'd try to summarize it but I'd probably botch what they said. Check out the Variety keynote whenever it is posted.

Edit: I just realized I replied to the wrong post...I've updated the quote above.

[Tom]

In the past I've noticed some interesting (to me) parallels between TR's work and Erik Satie's; currently getting major Satie vibes from San Simeon Waltz.

[cdm]

San Simeon Waltz is a really beautiful track, nice length too. Fuckin great stuff.

[LOVEANDZOMBIES]

The credits on the bandcamp page are concerning. This looks and feels less like Trent and more like Atticus plus a ton of other people. Trent is only listed as a player near the bottom of a long list of others. I feel like TR+AR is now an Oscar-worthy brand, and not necessarily the artists who encompass the material. Feel free to jump down my throat.

[Toadflax]

near the bottom

You mean with the other players whose names start with a T?

[Tom]

The credits on the bandcamp page are concerning. This looks and feels less like Trent and more like Atticus plus a ton of other people. Trent is only listed as a player near the bottom of a long list of others. I feel like TR+AR is now an Oscar-worthy brand, and not necessarily the artists who encompass the material. Feel free to jump down my throat.

The other people are playing music that TR&AR composed. I don't think their inability to be a two-man bigband and full orchestra should be much cause for concern.

[Toadflax]

The other people are playing music that TR&AR composed. I don't think their inability to be a two-man bigband and full orchestra should be much cause for concern.

Yeah, I think it's weird people are worrying about what Trent & Atticus did or didn't play. If they're doing a droney/piano/electronic score, sure, it's expected that they would be the ones doing most of the actual performance. But for an orchestral score, especially one where it's a specific period/genre of music they're not experienced in, of course there are going to be a ton of people involved in the arranging, performing, mixing, production, etc. That's how traditional movie scores work.

[Tom]

^Indeed. Likewise, I don't worry that Debussy isn't playing anything on any of my favourite recordings of his symphonic works.

[Toadflax]

But holy shit, listen to the demo of A Fool's Paradise if you have any doubt that the boys did a TON of writing/arrangement/production work before it went out to the rest of the team.

[richardp]

Oscars should just hand over the trophy right now, zero fanfare. It's not even a competition. This is the best soundtrack this year by a landslide.

[allegate]

there's not that much in the way of competition. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_films_of_2020)

[Reaps]

Obscene amount of content this last year. Almost too much to give my full attention to, but what a wonderful situation as a fan to find yourself in though.

Also..

A Rare Bird --- Cant decide on either Zero Sum or FFVII

[cdm]

According to Variety: https://variety.com/feature/2021-oscars-best-original-score-predictions-1234773087/

[atomobile]

I've heard that John Williams doesn't play on his movie scores (with the rare piano exception). Should that be concerning? Star Wars looks and feels less like John Williams and more like a ton of other people....

[Toadflax]

According to Variety: https://variety.com/feature/2021-oscars-best-original-score-predictions-1234773087/

AND THE PREDICTED NOMINEES ARE:
"Mank" (Netflix) Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross
"The Midnight Sky" (Netflix) Alexandre Desplat
"Soul" (Pixar) Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross
"Minari" (A24) Emile Mosseri
"One Night in Miami" (Amazon Studios) Terence Blanchard

Oh, man, how cool would it be if they were nominated twice in the same year?

[botley]

Beyond being beautifully written and arranged, the audio engineering and production work on this score is absolutely top-notch. They nailed that vintage analogue vibe. Big kudos to the whole team! If only the orchestral score purists who were pooh-pooh'ing The Social Network soundtrack eleven years ago could hear this...

[caca]

Oh, man, how cool would it be if they were nominated twice in the same year?

That would be pretty cool, but I could also see it being a potential disadvantage (example: people feel TR/AR definitely deserve the Oscar, but split between the two films). It's also quite possible that I'm talking out of my ass.

Either way, this album is fucking phenomenal. By far my favorite score of 2020. We'll see if that changes in 14 days...

Looking forward to hearing the music in context tonight.

[Wulgaren]

man the bandcamp exclusive stuff is like a dreamier version of the album, my new go to sleep album looks like! (after ghosts v)

[Wulgaren]

oh and the movie is fantastic

[eachpassingphase]

I have always enjoyed the scores, but I’ve never had any sort of emotional attachment to them before.

But I can already tell my feelings on this one will be different after just a day of listening to the score on a loop. It’s so beautiful! I’m excited that Trent and Atticus got a chance to be pushed creatively like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Stay clear of NINs fb post about Mank....Mostly comments about what a piece of shit Mank is. NIN fb is the sewer of the interwebs

[snichols]

I enjoy this score more than I thought that I would.

[caca]

Just finished watching the movie. Loved it.

[Wulgaren]

do they hate it because of the anti republican themes lol

[allegate]

I hope this is available past just today, I was busy with non-major-label acts today.

[versusreality]

movie of the year. man, there are so many LAYERS in that film, I'm still processing it the next morning. anyone notice the film spots here and there throughout the film? (a hint at Fight Club? ) . or how the vocals sounded recorded in a studio with some slight reverb at times? and some white noise at times? very interesting aesthetic.

the score was phenomenal. I can't see how they don't win awards for this.

[WorzelG]

movie of the year. man, there are so many LAYERS in that film, I'm still processing it the next morning. anyone notice the film spots here and there throughout the film? (a hint at Fight Club? ) . or how the vocals sounded recorded in a studio with some slight reverb at times? and some white noise at times? very interesting aesthetic.

the score was phenomenal. I can't see how they don't win awards for this.
I think I’m going to need a breakdown of who’s who in that era as I’ve no idea what is going on half the time! I love the nods to fake news and the head of MGM asking staff to take a pay cut is very pandemic reminiscent

[Jazzkokehead]

I haven't watched the film yet, but man, this score is something else. Very playful and evocative. Not the type of music I'd typically listen to, but it's great nonetheless. I love hearing how Trent and and Atticus have adapted themselves to a film that covers unconventional territory for them.

[ton]

A gorgeous film score. I watched the film earlier this afternoon and it certainly elevated the music after the fact. Mostly because I can now associate my viewing experience with it. It's a different kind of film than I'm used (a mostly dialogue driven film about the making of a film). I guess The Social Network was like that though.

[WorzelG]

Really pissed off with Netflix, wanted to watch the credits all the way through to hear the original song they wrote and every time they just cut off 30 seconds in to advertise The Crown which I don’t even want to watch, I can’t get it to continue. I looked at other films and this seems to always happen. Talk about no respect for the people who make the stuff

[neorev]

Really pissed off with Netflix, wanted to watch the credits all the way through to hear the original song they wrote and every time they just cut off 30 seconds in to advertise The Crown which I don’t even want to watch, I can’t get it to continue. I looked at other films and this seems to always happen. Talk about no respect for the people who make the stuff

I'm not sure what you mean. I just watched the movie and credits. I can watch the credits just fine without any interruptions on the Netflix app on my Amazon Fire Stick. There were no advertisements. You sure you don't have some setting checked for credits promotion or something?

[WorzelG]

I'm not sure what you mean. I just watched the movie and credits. I can watch the credits just fine without any interruptions on the Netflix app on my Amazon Fire Stick. There were no advertisements. You sure you don't have some setting checked for credits promotion or something?
I’ll have a check, I just watched it on my iPad with the Netflix app, I’ll check the settings and see if watching it on tv helps

[neorev]

I’ll have a check, I just watched it on my iPad with the Netflix app, I’ll check the settings and see if watching it on tv helps

Ah ok. I rarely use the mobile app. I always watch on my TV. I don't really watch movies on my phone or tablet. No ads on my Netflix TV app. I also prefer watching YouTube on my YouTube TV app. I usually use my tablet to search YouTube for stuff as it is much easier to search. I then send it to the TV app to watch with a click of a button as I got my YouTube phone app and TV app linked. I'm the weirdo who brings my laptop and HDMI cable when traveling. That way I can hook my laptop to the TV at the hotel with the HDMI and watch what we want.

[Horican]

Really pissed off with Netflix, wanted to watch the credits all the way through to hear the original song they wrote and every time they just cut off 30 seconds in to advertise The Crown which I don’t even want to watch, I can’t get it to continue. I looked at other films and this seems to always happen. Talk about no respect for the people who make the stuff
The original song isn’t in the credits BTW
its in the film itself

[WorzelG]

The original song isn’t in the credits BTW
its in the film itself
Oh which bit was that then? I’ve only seen it the once and I was being distracted quite a bit by my son!

[Wulgaren]

yeah it was playing on radio iirc. also i wanted to watch the credits too and it skipped to an ad as well

[Jon]

I’ll have a check, I just watched it on my iPad with the Netflix app, I’ll check the settings and see if watching it on tv helps

As already pointed out by neorev, it's a setting you have to disable. Under "Account" there should be something called "Test Participation", click that off. You can also go to netflix.com/DoNotTest and do it there (while logged in, of course).

[Substance242]

With most of recent movies, I have a feeling "shit, I've seen this NEW movie before..." - but not with Extraction, The Lighthouse, or MANK. :-)

So, this is how it sounds like when Trentticus forgets login to computers and just jams around for a week with what is available at the time, right? :-) I listened to the whole bandcamp thing today, not something to lie (edit: LAY, haha) down with on headphones for the whole 3,5 hours, but interesting change because otherwise I would never look for similar music on my own.

Beautiful cinematography, and as a hobby photo fan I had a feeling with some outdoor shots they're at least partly in infrared? (see: infrared photography) Probably just some clever image manipulation.

Only one minus, I catched myself thinking "I wish there was a bit of SILENCE for a change", because there seemed to be some "noise" and music all the time.

And, the final quote with "trap that I regularly repair whenever there seems to be danger of some opening" reminded me of NIN "smash it apart just for the fuck of it".

[caca]

I watched this for the second time in three days tonight, and I liked it even more this time around.

But Netflix needs to get its shit together. Look what it thought I was watching when I paused for a refill (though in its defense, the description is correct).

Full disclosure: I... uh... did watch that like a week ago.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201207/f44dafdf74e77408040ab591639d9ca9.jpg

[Reznor2112]

San Simeon Waltz reminds me of their work for Mid90s.

[Substance242]

Chris Stuckmann review (6 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHqJW182q4

"...score is AMAZING, it sounds just like an older film"

[Jon]

Beautiful cinematography, and as a hobby photo fan I had a feeling with some outdoor shots they're at least partly in infrared? (see: infrared photography) Probably just some clever image manipulation.

Redcode RAW

[henryeatscereal]

Loved the score, great listening experience!

Is it worth a watch?

EDIT: Just watched the review, going to watch anyway...

[SchwarzerAbt]

It is surely not the only reason that the songs are this short. So slightly off topic. But shouldn't Mank boost their Spotify revenue a little? At a rate of 0.004 cent per stream it is 0.28 cent for the whole album (1:33 h in length) compared to 0.032 cent for Ghosts VI (1:10 h).

Or is there a catch in having so many short songs on streaming services?

[WorzelG]

Ah ok. I rarely use the mobile app. I always watch on my TV. I don't really watch movies on my phone or tablet. No ads on my Netflix TV app. I also prefer watching YouTube on my YouTube TV app. I usually use my tablet to search YouTube for stuff as it is much easier to search. I then send it to the TV app to watch with a click of a button as I got my YouTube phone app and TV app linked. I'm the weirdo who brings my laptop and HDMI cable when traveling. That way I can hook my laptop to the TV at the hotel with the HDMI and watch what we want.
Daniel Pemberton actually wrote an article in the Guardian complaining about Netflix cutting off end credits
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/15/the-end-of-credits-why-doesnt-netflix-want-us-to-watch-them

I looked for that Test Participation thing and couldn’t find it in app settings. Never mind

[Mr. Blaileen]

This soundtrack is incredible to me. I'm biased, probably, as I love big band/swing/old-timey stuff in general, so for TR/AR to do something along those lines is just right up my alley. I love everything about this though; from the warmth and richness of the sound, to the effort they put into using older instruments and arrangements, to the tunes themselves. They've really topped themselves; the music fits the film perfectly and flows effortlessly. It's really easy to listen to this thing front to back and I've already done so several times. There are upbeat tunes, introspective/moody ones, and rowdy-big-band grooves all packed into one experience. Just a gem. Can't wait to buy this thing on vinyl.

Highlights: All This Time, (If Only You Could) Save Me, San Simeon Waltz, Way Back When.

[WorzelG]

If only the orchestral score purists who were pooh-pooh'ing The Social Network soundtrack eleven years ago could hear this...

https://moviemusicuk.us/2020/12/08/mank-trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross/

well now we know! Basically some people in the ‘film score community’ whatever that is, think it was mostly Conrad Pope, the orchestrator who made this score what it is. This guy doesn’t and gives it a great review. But my opinion is, if Conrad Pope can write an Oscar winning score, why doesn’t he? Film scoring isn’t like pop music where you need a beautiful creator. I don’t get what these orchestrators would get out of writing a score and letting someone else take credit. According to this guy there are people that believe Danny Elfman didn’t score Batman, anyway strange crowd

[atomobile]

I hope that Trent is planning to release this soundtrack on vinyl with 1940s period-accurate artwork and packaging. And I predict this and Soul will be nominated for an Oscar, and that Mank will win. It is perfect.

[jmtd]

78rpm!

[Toadflax]

https://moviemusicuk.us/2020/12/08/mank-trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross/

well now we know! Basically some people in the ‘film score community’ whatever that is, think it was mostly Conrad Pope, the orchestrator who made this score what it is. This guy doesn’t and gives it a great review. But my opinion is, if Conrad Pope can write an Oscar winning score, why doesn’t he? Film scoring isn’t like pop music where you need a beautiful creator. I don’t get what these orchestrators would get out of writing a score and letting someone else take credit. According to this guy there are people that believe Danny Elfman didn’t score Batman, anyway strange crowd

That's a cool read, and I applaud the author for being even-handed in his writing rather than just choosing a side and coming down hard on it. It's totally within his rights to not think the scores for the previous Fincher movies are good, but it seems he didn't see Watchmen. Watchmen is not only one of TR/AR's most active scores, but it was also their first foray into incorporating jazz, which we'll see again to some extent in Soul. I have no doubt that Conrad Pope and Dan Higgins are hugely important in making the Mank score sound so good, but Watchmen + Mank + Soul means Trent and Atticus can actually do this kind of music and didn't just stumble into getting their names put on someone else's score.

[WorzelG]

That's a cool read, and I applaud the author for being even-handed in his writing rather than just choosing a side and coming down hard on it. It's totally within his rights to not think the scores for the previous Fincher movies are good, but it seems he didn't see Watchmen. Watchmen is not only one of TR/AR's most active scores, but it was also their first foray into incorporating jazz, which we'll see again to some extent in Soul. I have no doubt that Conrad Pope and Dan Higgins are hugely important in making the Mank score sound so good, but Watchmen + Mank + Soul means Trent and Atticus can actually do this kind of music and didn't just stumble into getting their names put on someone else's score.
They clearly never saw the pics of Trent with a sax or trumpet in his school marching band

[spahn]

That's a cool read, and I applaud the author for being even-handed in his writing rather than just choosing a side and coming down hard on it. It's totally within his rights to not think the scores for the previous Fincher movies are good, but it seems he didn't see Watchmen. Watchmen is not only one of TR/AR's most active scores, but it was also their first foray into incorporating jazz, which we'll see again to some extent in Soul. I have no doubt that Conrad Pope and Dan Higgins are hugely important in making the Mank score sound so good, but Watchmen + Mank + Soul means Trent and Atticus can actually do this kind of music and didn't just stumble into getting their names put on someone else's score.

I respect the writer's opinion although I whole heartedly disagree with assessment of TSN, Gone Girl and TGWDTT. TSN, all onto its own, deserves and has received all the accolades due to the sheer impact it made on the film as well as the fact it can stand alone as its own piece of music, should it so desire to do so. Sometimes, these critics get so dug into their own world that they fail to see the outside realm in which other musicians operate. Sure, he recognizes Trent and Atticus' status and their success because of NIN, but has he thoroughly listened to the complexities of NIN music and how some, if not all of their methods transition over to the score work. Maybe, maybe not, but again, I am as bias in writing this as much as he is in critiquing them for only being recognized for being in the popular rock band, NIN.

All that aside, Mank is a great piece of work and as it has been mentioned, it will most definitely be considered Oscar nomination.

[cdm]

I have no doubt that Conrad Pope and Dan Higgins are hugely important in making the Mank score sound so good, but Watchmen + Mank + Soul means Trent and Atticus can actually do this kind of music and didn't just stumble into getting their names put on someone else's score.

Good for pointing out the Watchmen thru-line to Mank and the author's lack of mention. Possibly due to the film vs television snobbery? We'll never know.

[Toadflax]

Sometimes, these critics get so dug into their own world that they fail to see the outside realm in which other musicians operate.

Yeah, the funny thing is that he claims they don't have an understanding of the function of a score, which may be true through the lens of people who were trained in the medium. But the thing is, Trent in particular never claimed to have that understanding. He makes it clear that their process is to make swatches, send them to the director, get notes, iterate on those notes, and repeat. So ultimately, it's up to the filmmakers how their music is used. If this were a case where the director locks picture and then sends it off to the composer, it would be a different story, but due to their lack of a formal education in this medium, that's not how they operate.


Good for pointing out the Watchmen thru-line to Mank and the author's lack of mention. Possibly due to the film vs television snobbery? We'll never know.

Eh, not everyone sees everything. He probably didn't see Before The Flood or Vietnam War, either, but that doesn't mean he can't speak intelligently about their work he has seen/heard.

[cdm]

Eh, not everyone sees everything. He probably didn't see Before The Flood or Vietnam War, either, but that doesn't mean he can't speak intelligently about their work he has seen/heard.

Fair, although neither of those won an Emmy. But point taken. And to be clear, I enjoyed his review and thought it was very fair, even if I don't agree with his reviews of the prior works.

[zecho]

"There still seems to be a real reluctance on Reznor and Ross’s part to really embrace themes-and-variations film scoring, as if writing a strong repeated melody would somehow lead them too far down a path towards film music conventionality."

Ignoring the heavy motifs in the scores that he didn't like, haha. But good on him for at least admitting he likes something that he was biased against.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

After this absolute shit-fuck of a year we’ve had, soundtracked by such uplifting score work like Waves, Bird Box Deluxe and Ghosts V & VI, this Mank shit has me virtually bouncing off the walls with gusto, it’s so different to what we’re used to hearing from them, and refreshing..

That being said, if you listen close enough, it’s still incredibly sad in certain moments. That “If Only You Could Save Me” track with the female singing is fucking dark if you hone in on what she’s singing about..

[AlanMorlock]

https://moviemusicuk.us/2020/12/08/mank-trent-reznor-and-atticus-ross/

well now we know! Basically some people in the ‘film score community’ whatever that is, think it was mostly Conrad Pope, the orchestrator who made this score what it is. This guy doesn’t and gives it a great review. But my opinion is, if Conrad Pope can write an Oscar winning score, why doesn’t he? Film scoring isn’t like pop music where you need a beautiful creator. I don’t get what these orchestrators would get out of writing a score and letting someone else take credit. According to this guy there are people that believe Danny Elfman didn’t score Batman, anyway strange crowd


Orchestration for other composers and musicians is what a lot of composers do for work. There are a lot more composers in the world than there are films or orchestras looking for music. When there's a string section on a rock song, that's orchestrated by a composer. It's also very common among bigger composers to have someone else assisting with the orchestrating. It's what a lot of film composers do before getting larger gigs themselves. Thomas Newman, who been nominated for 15 Oscars himself found early work doing orchestration for John Williams on Return of the Jedi. To act is if it's secretly the orchestrators writing everything is pretty disingenuous.

That such claims would be made against Elfman just kind of shows how much their just trying to police against pop and rock musicians, many of whom are legit musically trained, coming into the field.

[Horican]

It’s funny because a lot of the Herrmann-esque pieces he applauds are extremely similar in melody, structure and even arrangement to stuff from Gone Girl and GWTDT. The instrumentation is different (orchestral) but it’s a lot more similar than he describes it. it’s also not like they got into scoring in a “music responding to picture” way, the pieces are still pretty loose and cyclical and independent of picture. (the jazz cuts are vastly less recognizable)

which honestly shows me that the problem is mostly with the writer’s thoughts on synth sounds, and not the actual writing itself

[WorzelG]

After this absolute shit-fuck of a year we’ve had, soundtracked by such uplifting score work like Waves, Bird Box Deluxe and Ghosts V & VI, this Mank shit has me virtually bouncing off the walls with gusto, it’s so different to what we’re used to hearing from them, and refreshing..

That being said, if you listen close enough, it’s still incredibly sad in certain moments. That “If Only You Could Save Me” track with the female singing is fucking dark if you hone in on what she’s singing about..
I agree, particularly about the song. The lyrics could be about Trent himself pre-sobriety

[Wulgaren]

mank ost makes me feel happy

[xfocalinx]

really loving the soundtrack, incredible work, the movie on the other hand..

[eversonpoe]

really would like to find a chunk of time to sit down and watch this movie but with a new baby here, it's rare that i have more than an hour to do anything uninterrupted :/

as a rule, i try not to listen to the scores before i've seen the films but i might have to eschew that rule this time around. a lot easier to have music on while doing stuff heh

[ltrandazzo]

We put up our Christmas tree with the soundtrack playing in the background. Fit quite nicely with what we were doing. 10/10, would recommend.

[Tom]

This score is soundtracking our advent rather nicely, too. Christmas and jazz go together well.

[jmtd]

really would like to find a chunk of time to sit down and watch this movie but with a new baby here, it's rare that i have more than an hour to do anything uninterrupted :/

two toddlers here. I cannot remember the last spare hour i had.


as a rule, i try not to listen to the scores before i've seen the films but i might have to eschew that rule this time around. a lot easier to have music on while doing stuff heh


That’s definitely an old-life rule to ditch hehe

[Reznor2112]

That’s definitely an old-life rule to ditch hehe

Hahahaha - Yeah. I've been listening to the Tenet score since it came out and haven't seen that film yet. No regerts.

[anton_k]

Loved the score, great listening experience!

Is it worth a watch?

EDIT: Just watched the review, going to watch anyway...

Watched it today. I have a divided opinion. On the one hand the writing and dialogues are very elegant and pleasant, as are the direction and settings. I liked the character of Mank. Visuals and camera work are very slick, I would say maybe too much but I know it has been Fincher's style for a few movies. My issue is that for nearly half of the movie I had a hard time really grasping the stakes and delving into the story. I did though in the second half, but when things come together in the end, I nearly felt the movie (which is pretty long) ended too quickly.

Good movie still.

[henryeatscereal]

Watched it today. I have a divided opinion. On the one hand the writing and dialogues are very elegant and pleasant, as are the direction and settings. I liked the character of Mank. Visuals and camera work are very slick, I would say maybe too much but I know it has been Fincher's style for a few movies. My issue is that for nearly half of the movie I had a hard time really grasping the stakes and delving into the story. I did though in the second half, but when things come together in the end, I nearly felt the movie (which is pretty long) ended too quickly.

Good movie still.
Thanks! it's already on my watch list, probably will watch this weekend!

[bobbie solo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qXviVJSkbY&ab_channel=BreakfastAllDayPodc ast

Review of the movie, alongside Mank's actual grandson Ben, who is a well known movie critic, TCM host and leftie pundit (one of the few center left guys I trust). He gives some more personal insight into the man and his family.