US Abortion Bans [Archive] - Echoing the Sound

Patrick_Nicholas

05-24-2019, 02:14 PM

And, what's REALLY fucking crazy, is that the bible doesn't mention any sort of specific law against abortion. There are verses that people use to claim that it does, in a vague way, but, there are also verses which SUPPORT abortion.

"The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+17%3A11&version=KJV)) is the one that I remember from the top of my head, due to it having been interpreted in my Christian school as being anti-abortion because the fetus develops its own bloodstream at some point. It is extremely vague because I don't think the concept of abortion even existed to most people in Jesus' time or before.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" is another one I heard being used to justify opposing abortion, even though there have conveniently been numerous exceptions to the rule.

Basically, the "pro-life" people tend to be evangelicals who cherry-pick Bible verses to justify their views.

elevenism

05-24-2019, 02:46 PM

Remember Exodus 21: 22-23?
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage, and there is no serious injury (to the WOMAN,) the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. "

So, that's 22. 23 goes on to say that, if the WOMAN is harmed, it's eye for eye and tooth for tooth.

This, to me, shows that the unborn child was NOT considered a person: otherwise, the person who causes the woman to miscarry would be a murderer. Instead, the person causing the miscarriage is only expected to pay a fine. But if the WOMAN is killed, then the person who bumped into her is killed. The woman is a person, the fetus is not.

There are more verses like this, that show the OPPOSITE of the right wing evangelical view.

You're absolutely right about the cherry picking.

Patrick_Nicholas

05-24-2019, 03:30 PM

And in a bit of positive news, a federal judge just blocked a ban in Mississippi!
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/politics/mississippi-abortion-law-federal-judge/index.html

Only time will tell if other bans get blocked anytime soon.

eachpassingphase

05-24-2019, 08:50 PM

And, what's REALLY fucking crazy, is that the bible doesn't mention any sort of specific law against abortion. There are verses that people use to claim that it does, in a vague way, but, there are also verses which SUPPORT abortion.

I've a friend who is a DoC minister, and, he is VEHEMENTLY opposed to this abortion ban bullshit.

Count me as another Christian in ministry who is absolutely disgusted with this. Abortion has been documented in early Greece, Rome and Egypt. It almost certainly existed in the time that Jesus Christ was thought to have been alive (although it would have looked far different). If it were the heinous crime that it is currently thought to be by political conservatives, then why wasn't it mentioned in the Gospels or Epistles?

I honestly think that the reason this is all happening now is because the GOP caught wind of how they overplayed their hand with some of their evangelical base. I follow a lot of stuff from Christian culture every week, and after the first year of Trump's presidency, I saw quite a few articles from theologically conservative Christians (and would call themselves pro-life) who were questioning the GOP's stance on abortion. Because after all: at one point in the Presidency they held all the power to tear down legal abortion if they wanted to, and they didn't make any significant moves until just recently. It confused a lot of evangelicals. Add in the children in cages, add in some of the other immigration policies that would potentially make adoption harder, add in Republican politicians getting their mistresses pregnant and trying to get abortions and...well. They were pissed. They were finally beginning to see the hypocrisy of it all.

More than a few of them finally woke up and realized that the majority of Republicans don't give a lick about saving babies at all. They realized that the GOP was just using abortion as bait to whip evangelicals into a frothing frenzy, and a not-insignificant portion of these pro-life evangelicals are done with the Republican party and have written about it online. GOPer's keep tabs on the pulse of evangelical America, because typically that's their most faithful voting base. I feel like this is the Republican hail-mary pass because they know the ship is sinking and are trying to whip the base up again in a last ditch effort to retain power.

It's been very odd and depressing to observe all this from where I sit. I have a child with severe disabilities, we could have aborted late term due to their severity, but obviously chose not to. A lot of people want to use us as some sort of shining beacon of pro-life ethics, and we are SO uncomfortable with that for a number of reasons and slap it down hard when it comes up. I'm still not sure why we made that decision (not that I re-think my choice on this. We love our daughter the way she is.) but I'm highly aware that this is a HARD life that we chose.

But that's just it: we got to make a choice. I just want other women to be able to make a choice too. And these anti-abortion efforts are bound to hurt women who already have the least amount of choices in life; marginalized women who already get too many options taken away from them. But that seems to be sort of the point, doesn't it?

Anyway, that comment kind of got away from me there. But yeah, sucks bad.

allegro

05-24-2019, 08:53 PM

I stated this in that other religion thread and I’ll repeat it, here:

These abortion bans aren’t really about Jesus or God or babies.

They’re about maintaining the white majority.

Exhibit A: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-will-become-minority-white-in-2045-census-projects/

Exhibit B: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/us/us-birthrate-decrease.html

theimage13

05-26-2019, 08:42 AM

https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/embryos-dont-have-hearts.html?fbclid=IwAR2aJEqODi_DZwuC4pc7IPbNz5j4J kHwpfD4R4kiHNndP7j9dKP9-YR7hs0

Should be required reading before anyone gets to vote on anything regarding abortions.

allegro

05-26-2019, 11:34 AM

ickyvicky

06-03-2021, 10:04 AM

"Texas teen attacks new abortion law in high school graduation speech" - Hell yes, Paxton Smith!

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-57343832

GulDukat

09-04-2021, 01:24 PM

There is a website that urges people to report women who have had an abortion after six weeks. (https://www.newsweek.com/texas-website-urges-people-report-anyone-having-abortion-six-weeks-1624862)

That's 1984 right there.

I think people just assumed that Roe v. Wade would be the rule of the land forever. This is why the election of 2016 was so damn important. Now we have a Supreme Court with a conservative 6-3 super-majority. I'd be surprised if Roe isn't overturned, or weakened to the point where red states can basically outlaw abortion, which is what's happening in Texas.

BRoswell

09-04-2021, 02:12 PM

There's a state senator here trying to get a similar bill passed next year. She's even in support of a ban in cases of rape and incest because "we just magnify the hurt and injury by also killing the baby". No, you magnify the hurt by forcing a woman to carry a child that will remind her of the trauma she went through every single day. People like that think these children are little miracles simply because they don't have to see them or raise them. Out of sight, out of mind.

allegate

09-04-2021, 06:48 PM

https://twitter.com/noliewithbtc/status/1433906287935373313

ekrekel

09-09-2021, 01:35 PM

DoJ presser in 10 minutes on the topic

https://twitter.com/TheJusticeDept/status/1436008810481602570?s=20

allegate

09-10-2021, 12:44 PM

https://twitter.com/nyttypos/status/1436383230836543492?s=20

great thread about the law and enforcement.

Jinsai

09-19-2021, 09:58 PM

well, the whole thing is definitely sparking a lot of opportunist moments to overturn civil rights in a broader sense. How anyone could look at this shit and be ok with it is beyond me.

https://twitter.com/JoeMyGod/status/1439589370416095238

bobbie solo

09-23-2021, 02:49 AM

a state legislator in Florida today introduced an abortion band law extremely similar to the one in Texas. Chilling stuff going on if this shit stands.

sweeterthan

09-23-2021, 12:51 PM

they’re gonna do it in georgia too. the whole thing is gross.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jinsai

10-06-2021, 09:46 PM

so this is encouraging news.

"Federal Judge Halts Enforcement of Texas Abortion Law"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/us/politics/texas-abortion-law.html

elevenism

10-07-2021, 02:51 PM

so this is encouraging news.

"Federal Judge Halts Enforcement of Texas Abortion Law"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/us/politics/texas-abortion-law.html

I came here to mention that. It's still going to be fought out in the courts.

I'm a Texan, obviously. I've got ancestors in the Stratford Cemetery who died in the mid 1800s: aka the people who were here both when Texas was part of the US, and when it wasn't.
I'm chock full of Texas spirit, and piss and whiskey. I bleed red white and blue, but not for the US. I bleed lone stars.
But here's where I'm starting to get confused. This is the LONE STAR state. In my mind, it's supposed to be, like, the FREEST state. In Texas, you take Texas History BEFORE American history, where you learn about the old school spirit of texas.
What I'm getting at is that these abortion bans are anathema to the spirit of Texas as I was raised to understand it.
Also, I assumed that Texas would be one of the first states to legalize weed.
Bottom line, the First Three Hundred and their primary descendants were NOT aiming for a fucking Sharia Law style Theocracy, I don't think.

Something got lost along the way, or, more specifically, co-opted.

And it sucks.

Jinsai

10-07-2021, 03:56 PM

Also, I assumed that Texas would be one of the first states to legalize weed..

here’s where you’re totally losing me. Texas treats weed like it’s crack. You mandatory go to jail for small cultivation. There’s also no really free gambling and you can’t buy hard liquor on a Sunday or on Christmas. I think a lot of this “rootin tootin badass Texas freedom” stuff has been a smokescreen lie forever. Last I heard they recently changed the law to let you buy beer before noon. FREEDOM!!!!

Texas is all about scaring away liberals and people into that hippie stuff. Honestly, I’d imagine that the majority of Texas support for this abortion bullshit is more tied to the hope it’ll scare away the godless liberals back to wherever they’re coming from. The only way TX is gonna catch up on weed legalization is if they goof up more technicalities in fumbling attempts to be ok with CBD

elevenism

10-07-2021, 07:44 PM

@Jinsai (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) but do you feel what I'm saying?
Again, i'm like 6th generation, if not seventh.
And I'm a Texas history buff.

(Edit: Regarding weed, i think it's about money for the government. They don't want to lose all of that daily drug bust income from the INSANELY huge border with Mexico. that's all i can figure, honestly. Drug busts, private prisons and such.)

It USED to be about liberty.

I THINK I can pretty much pinpoint when it all changed. Remember, Texas was a Democratic stronghold until the early eighties.
And, what happened around that time? Falwell and Billy Graham and all these cocksucking "religious" vampires endorsing political candidates.
You know, the "moral majority" bullshit.
It was the birth of the "evangelical" voter, and the beginning of what I PERSONALLY view as a violation of separation of Church and State. These fuckers started being told that an ideology drawn from a set of books spanning multiple millennia, the last of which was written a couple thousand years ago, commanded them to support Reagan and Bush.
That's how it started, I think.
THAT BEING SAID, as much as Texas is being held up as a paragon of lunacy or whatever, look at the voting numbers.
Ted "please come get him and take him back to Canada @botley (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) " Cruz won his latest senate race by less than than 2% of the vote.
I'M a fucking legacy Texan, and a LOT of my friends think a lot like I do.
We've got Antifa, and underground militant leftists. We've got a fuckton of left leaning people in general. We've got multiple cities where racial minorities are the majority.
You'll meet some of the most hardcore hippies and gutter punks you could imagine in Austin especially, but also in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.
We've got atheist club meetings.
We've got organized Satanism in every major city.
We have massive Pride parades.
Texas is a lot like the US in general, in that the right is overrepresented.
Yes, most Texans lean right, but we're talking like 52/48, not 90/10.

ALSO, it's not that Texas is trying to scare off liberals. It's that extreme conservatives from other parts of the country, including YOUR area, are coming HERE.
And a lot of these people don't belong, because they're missing the most important custom of this state, which is FRIENDLINESS.

Anyway, i digress.

I'm a Texan first, and an american second.
And i'm tired of US being blamed for something that infuriates at LEAST 50% of the people who LIVE here.

It's no different than blaming the entire US for trump.

botley

10-07-2021, 10:05 PM

Ted "please come get him and take him back to Canada @botley (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) " Cruz
Acceptable, but y'all gotta take Saskatchewan in trade.

allegro

10-08-2021, 06:36 PM

I'm a Texan first, and an american second.

I'm a woman first, and an American second. And I'm meaningless.

I don't "belong" to any particular state in this country.

My family goes back to the late-1800s in Michigan.

And I moved.

Because my rights and the rights of women and the marginalized mean more to me than my own egotistical bullshit history.

Your state has been taken over by right-wing extremists, DECADES AGO. I don't care how warm and fuzzy YOU feel about Texas, or how you try to spin it.

A Federal circuit judge temporarily halted the Texas law, not a Texas judge. There are people in other STATES using the Texas law to sue the doctor in Texas ("interpleader (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/575660-federal-lawsuit-seeks-to-consolidate-challenges-regarding-texas)"), that's how fucked-up that Texas abortion law is.

Michigan, I'm from Michigan, yup. But, it's a fucking hillbilly bullshit state full of fucking yahoos. MILITIA assholes tried KILL THE GOVERNOR in Michigan. I don't care if you set Michigan on FIRE. G's mother's family history in Kentucky and Tennessee goes back to the late-1700s. And you couldn't pay him a million dollars to live in either place.

Personally, I want to circulate a petition to sell Texas back to Mexico.

This is the abortion thread. You will never ever ever ever ever have an abortion. This isn't the place for you to wax nostalgic about your family history, dude. Or try to explain to women whose rights to their bodies are being grossly violated how great everything is, and it really isn’t that bad, and there’s really some cool people out there. We understand that not 100% of people in any state are assholes. The problem is that the assholes have had all the power in your state since before you were born.

elevenism

10-08-2021, 08:12 PM

I'm a woman first, and an American second. And I'm meaningless.

I don't "belong" to any particular state in this country.

My family goes back to the late-1800s in Michigan.

And I moved.

Because my rights and the rights of women and the marginalized mean more to me than my own egotistical bullshit history.

Your state has been taken over by right-wing extremists, DECADES AGO. I don't care how warm and fuzzy YOU feel about Texas, or how you try to spin it.

A Federal circuit judge temporarily halted the Texas law, not a Texas judge. There are people in other STATES using the Texas law to sue the doctor in Texas ("interpleader (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/575660-federal-lawsuit-seeks-to-consolidate-challenges-regarding-texas)"), that's how fucked-up that Texas abortion law is.

Michigan, I'm from Michigan, yup. But, it's a fucking hillbilly bullshit state full of fucking yahoos. MILITIA assholes tried KILL THE GOVERNOR in Michigan. I don't care if you set Michigan on FIRE. G's mother's family history in Kentucky and Tennessee goes back to the late-1700s. And you couldn't pay him a million dollars to live in either place.

Personally, I want to circulate a petition to sell Texas back to Mexico.

This is the abortion thread. You will never ever ever ever ever have an abortion. This isn't the place for you to wax nostalgic about your family history, dude. Or try to explain to women whose rights to their bodies are being grossly violated how great everything is, and it really isn’t that bad, and there’s really some cool people out there. We understand that not 100% of people in any state are assholes. The problem is that the assholes have had all the power in your state since before you were born.

I didn't say a Texas judge temporarily halted the ban, I don't think.
And I'm DAMN sure not trying to explain away the horrors being committed here, wrt women's rights.
I GODDAMN sure never said it "wasn't that bad."

So I see my state gnmt fucking up. And I see a mockery being made of what I basically consider my COUNTRY, and I feel like I should say something. I feel like I should make it clear that not ALL of us think that way, because it's IMPORTANT to me.
@allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) the bottom line is that I don't want people thinking "Texas- oh yeah...everyone who lives there is against women's rights. They're all pro life extremists."

allegro

10-08-2021, 09:28 PM

Aaaaaaand the Texas abortion ban is back.

“ Texas appeals court reinstates strict six-week abortion ban, two days after it was lifted”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/texas-appeals-abortion-ruling/2021/10/08/56b9fe9e-2774-11ec-8831-a31e7b3de188_story.html

elevenism: That all sounds like hit dogs will holler. Your excuse to women is like saying “not all white people” to black people. The state of Texas is still responsible for these anti abortion laws. Period.

elevenism

10-08-2021, 10:43 PM

(part where I was being an asshole.)

allegro

10-08-2021, 10:46 PM

The right wing supermajority in the GOVERNMENT is responsible for these anti abortion laws, NOT the people.
Those people in the government got there by being elected. By a majority of voting people.

This country is absolutely responsible for Trump.

White people are responsible for Trump.

Absofuckinglutely.

It’s one thing coming into the abortion thread and saying “this Texan would like to apologize for Texas and the anti-abortion bans taking place.”

It’s another to come into this thread and say “not all Texans” and “don’t look at ME!”

That’s like “MY family never owned slaves” or “some of my best friends are black.”

That’s not ally language.

If the majority of people are against something, then those people need to stand up against it. Against racism, against sexism, etc. Otherwise it never goes away.

Look at the El Paso mass shooting. Those people who were shot? Their ancestors have been in Texas since the 1500s. But some white asshole in the suburbs of Dallas drove all the way to El Paso to shoot Hispanic people at a Walmart. And that’s what Texas means to him.

Roe v Wade, 1973. Jane Roe wanted to get an abortion but her state wouldn’t let her.

You know where Jane Roe lived? TEXAS.

And anti-abortion activists have claimed Texas as Mecca ever since. It started there, and they want it to end there.

elevenism

10-08-2021, 11:09 PM

(more of me kind of.being an asshole)

allegro

10-08-2021, 11:12 PM

But I REALLY don't think it represents the will of the majority of people here.

THAT
DOESN’T
MATTER

Tell the 14-yr-old girl who has to travel to another state to get an abortion because she didn’t even know she was PREGNANT until 8 weeks that “most Texans are actually pro choice.”

See how meaningful that is to her.

Then go read this:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-clinics-in-other-states/

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-02/new-texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-out-of-state-clinics

The Republican Party isn’t over-represented in this country; there’s actually a fuckload of Republicans in this country.

elevenism

10-08-2021, 11:48 PM

THAT
DOESN’T
MATTER

Tell the 14-yr-old girl who was raped and has to travel to another state to get an abortion because she didn’t even know she was PREGNANT until 8 weeks that “most Texans are actually pro choice.”

See how meaningful that is to her.

Then go read this:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-clinics-in-other-states/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-clinics-in-other-states/)

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-02/new-texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-out-of-state-clinics

The Republican Party isn’t over-represented in this country; there’s actually a fuckload of Republicans in this country.

I don't understand what you're getting at.
I'm vehemently opposed to pro life bullshit.
I have a pro choice t shirt, ffs.
What is it that you want me to say?
I feel like you're trying to blame me, PERSONALLY, for decisions made by an unfairly biased gvmt, which I oppose.
I'm disgusted and infuriated by the decisions made by the gvmt here, just like I'm disgusted and infuriated with the US gvmt about 90% of the time.

Secondly, the right IS overrepresented in Congress, according to multiple studies and news pieces I've seen.

allegro

10-08-2021, 11:55 PM

Edited: You’re a person without a uterus. I don’t even know why peoplr without a uterus are in abortion threads at all.

elevenism

10-09-2021, 12:01 AM

You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.
I'm an ALLY. I want to figure out how to help FIX this shit.

And, yes, despite the "not all men" comparison, I DID want to make it clear that I firmly believe that MOST of us don't approve of this theocratic dominionist insanity.

But I hear you.

I will leave this piece of news showing that this state is gerrymandered to right wing hell, and is considered to be an example of EXTREME gerrymandering.
I'll also state that the majority of Americans in general are against pretty much all of this theocratic dominionist bullshit.
but after that, I'll see myself out.
The right does not represent the will of the people.
This is straight up minority rule.

https://laferianews.net/?p=9119

I don't wanna argue anymore.
I've said enough.

sick among the pure

10-10-2021, 03:03 PM

You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.

I'm a dude. I also have a uterus.

Don't shit on people unless they give you a reason to shit on em, ok?

BRoswell

10-10-2021, 03:14 PM

You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.

Because abortion bans affect people we care about?

sweeterthan

10-10-2021, 03:15 PM

sex and gender being two different things gets complicated when comes to topics like reproductive health. i call people with or without a uterus “dude” all the time. the gist of the sentiment expressed here is that people without uteruses shouldn’t weigh in on the healthcare of those with a uterus. it’s easy to be like “oh well this law sucks” if you don’t have a uterus but that doesn’t exactly address the injustice that the law actually serves to the people who need abortion services.

BRoswell

10-10-2021, 03:39 PM

I don't think it's good to get mad at people who are simply trying to be supportive though. Yes, it's something that I don't have to deal with directly, but abortion is about more than just the physical procedure. There's everything leading up to it and everything that comes after, which can have an effect on everyone. Living in a very, very conservative area, I know all about the emotional fallout that can come from someone having an abortion, especially when someone's family is not supportive of it. I think it's narrow-minded to say that it's "not your issue". I've heard people say the same thing about various other issues. "It doesn't affect you directly, so why should you care? It's not your issue." It's because we're human beings at the end of the day, and we should care about others, even if we're not all going through the exact same experiences. I care because I'm aware of what people have gone through because of these bans and because I'm empathetic to their struggles. Does it affect me directly? Nope, but that doesn't mean I don't care.

leo3375

10-10-2021, 06:41 PM

I think what elevenism was trying to get at is that the people of Texas are not a monolith. More Texans vehemently oppose this law than support it, but the state has been so gerrymandered over the last 30 years that the government of Texas does not represent the way the state really is. And now it looks like the gerrymandering and the overrepresentation of far-right conservatives is about to get a lot worse.

That said, I think that the reproductive rights/justice movement needs allies across the entire sex and gender spectra as it affects everyone, not just those of us with uteruses. We should be able to get sterilization procedures when we want them, no questions asked. We should have full access to STI testing, contraceptives, fertility treatments, pre- and post-natal care, and treatments for conditions that can impact our sexual health and our reproductive health. All laws like the one in Texas are doing is making it a lot harder for everyone except the very privileged to do just that. How many people are going to die of sepsis because they can't get a D&E/D&C in a timely manner while they have a miscarriage? How many will be resigned to carrying a non-viable pregnancy to term because they don't have the resources to travel to Colorado and get the treatment they need? How many people are going to once again end up with horrible infections, or be rendered sterile, or even die because they sought out an underground abortion?

allegro

10-10-2021, 10:00 PM

but the state has been so gerrymandered
Gerrymandering does not affect Senate races, or Governor races, or Presidential elections.

BRoswell - I’m not “mad” at anyone. I’m tired. This has been battled for 48 fucking years.

Right now, those of us in states with the right to abortions are busy organizing ways to get those who need safe options for abortions to other states. We are providing an “underground railroad” for those in need. Many of us are offering to drive vans to pick up and deliver people who don’t have any funds to get them to other states.

That’s how dangerous it’s gotten. There are ticking clocks.

Words about how “we aren’t all that bad” - that’s not important. It’s worrying about something that isn’t important. It’s diverting attention from the actual topic.

The bottom line is that 100% of pregnancies are caused by cis males. And condoms are 99.9% effective. And nearly all of these laws were passed by cis males.

Coming into an abortion thread to defend a precious state while losing sight of what’s happening is beyond myopic.

“I bleed red white and blue, but not for the US. I bleed lone stars.”

In a thread about people potentially bleeding to death? Read the room.

I'm a dude. I also have a uterus.
I meant no offense, I know him personally; you’re right, though; I should have used different language. I apologize.

How many people are going to die of sepsis because they can't get a D&E/D&C in a timely manner while they have a miscarriage? How many will be resigned to carrying a non-viable pregnancy to term because they don't have the resources to travel to Colorado and get the treatment they need? How many people are going to once again end up with horrible infections, or be rendered sterile, or even die because they sought out an underground abortion?
Yup. Or can’t get to another state that provides a legal and safe abortion or procedure.

sweeterthan

10-11-2021, 07:34 AM

the thing is people without uteruses have been passing legislation for people with uteruses that is harmful. that’s why i think people without them should butt out. it’s a private healthcare decision that state representatives should be able to make for no one. the fact that we even have to discuss it in 2021 is disappointing and terrifying. it’s purely political theater for the conservative base. they don’t care how many children are in foster care. they don’t care if a person is ready and able to be a parent. they don’t care about anything except forcing people to give birth against their will. they don’t fucking care AT ALL. it’s fake self righteous bullshit that’s none of their business.

(drift: dude is genderless to me. no one uses dudette…right?!)

allegro

10-11-2021, 08:36 AM

no one uses dudette…right?!)
We used to use the term
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

Jinsai

10-11-2021, 11:14 AM

The law is insane on so many levels, but this right to sue abortion providers or people who assist in any way is where it goes into absurd dystopian fiction territory. Maybe there’s a clause to specifically deter this, but couldn’t a rapist sue his victim for trying to get an abortion? What if the father of the baby was the victim’s actual father? Could he then sue his daughter or collect 10k for blowing the whistle on anyone who tries to help her get a safe abortion?

I feel kind of disgusted even asking that sort of question, but I’m not one of the sick fucks who crafted this evil legislation

allegro

10-11-2021, 12:32 PM

The law is insane on so many levels, but this right to sue abortion providers or people who assist in any way is where it goes into absurd dystopian fiction territory.

Here’s the full text of the law. It’s really sneaky and tricky. It’s deliberately written to try to lock out any attempts to kill it or subvert it.

The person having the abortion is supposedly exempt from any lawsuits, but I’m not so sure.

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961

Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
ABETTING VIOLATION. (a) Any person, other than an officer or
employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may
bring a civil action against any person who:
(1) performs or induces an abortion in violation of
this subchapter;
(2) knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets
the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for
or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or
otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of
this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should
have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in
violation of this subchapter; or
(3) intends to engage in the conduct described by
Subdivision (1) or (2).
(b) If a claimant prevails in an action brought under this
section, the court shall award:
(1) injunctive relief sufficient to prevent the
defendant from violating this subchapter or engaging in acts that
aid or abet violations of this subchapter;
(2) statutory damages in an amount of not less than
$10,000 for each abortion that the defendant performed or induced
in violation of this subchapter, and for each abortion performed or
induced in violation of this subchapter that the defendant aided or
abetted; and
(3) costs and attorney's fees.

elevenism

10-11-2021, 09:49 PM

Redistricting/Gerrymandering DOES affect the STATE congress, @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76)
They do the same thing at the state level that they do at the federal level.

And, YES. what @leo3375 (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=198) , said is what i was getting at, that Texas is NOT a monolith. Everywhere i look, i see US being portrayed as a piece of shit, collectively. i wanted to make it clear that the MAJORITY of us do NOT support these draconian measures.
That's it.
It sucks that our arguing took up so much of the thread, because yes, women's voices are more important in this case.
That being said, do you seriously want to exclude men from this discussion?
Are we saying that if I'm unable to bear children, i'm not allowed to have an opinion on Women's Issues?
Aren't these issues that affected my grandmothers and great aunts? Didn't they affect my aunts and my mother?
Does this issue not affect my cousins, and second cousins, and sister in law?
How about all of my female friends?
What about my stepdaughter, or my niece?
What about THEIR female friends?

We're supposed to shut up? You think that HELPS, if 49% of the species, who are potential allies, stay silent?

Jinsai

10-12-2021, 08:46 AM

sweeterthan

10-12-2021, 10:11 AM

defending the supposed merits of a state while discussing its tyrannical abortion laws isn’t allyship. texas is a shithole imo for many reasons that all have to do with policy and politics. i say this as a person who lives in georgia where we barely squeaked by with biden last election. elected representatives are trying to push a similar abortion law here. i will be writing to the reps that work on this legislation. i will support local organizations like amplify and planned parenthood that fight by lobbying. i will offer support to candidates that are opposed to laws that hinder reproductive rights. i will not wax nostalgia about georgia in the face of people’s rights (including mine and my daughter’s) being taken away.

not having a uterus and being an ally aren’t universal unfortunately. like i said before, it seems like the people pushing this kind of policy don’t have a uterus. so yes, it’s time for them to shut up and listen to the people who need these services and care. the best way as a male to support abortion rights is to vote for candidates that are for reproductive health rights. the second best way is to voice your opposition directly to those enacting the harmful laws. you can learn who those people are by searching your states legislation website. if you oppose this legislation, they need to hear from you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

elevenism

10-12-2021, 01:21 PM

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) the thing is, your defense for Texas is practically monolithic and even jingoistic. You are proud of a state heritage and, I guess “all that it stands for,” but the end reality is that Texas is a staging grounds for this sort of draconian shit for a reason. You can’t “take the bitter with the sweet” and then focus on the reasons to celebrate it all, when we are really talking about how, now, that’s what Texas has become as far as a political powerful entity and why it is literally the continuing line in the sand to upend women’s rights.

To talk about the good stuff that you love about the state in this context is almost a non sequitur. It hardly matters. I have many close friends who live in Texas. Nobody is suggesting that all residents of the state are troglodytes. Of course they’re not. But come on… Texas has passed a law attempting to retry Roe v Wade, and we’re talking about the good stuff that has nothing to do with that?

Sorry… your state passed a law empowering snitches and revoking women’s rights… the flip side to that is you’re going to have to hear a bunch of outraged people scream “fuck Texas” in response
I will.concede that.
It's fucking horrible.
Yes, i'm a paragon of Texas patriotism. But what's happening now is awful.
Say Fuck Texas all you like. I understand. I JUST wanted to make it clear that I PERSONALLY believe that THIS bullshit is NOT what the majority of people here want.
But, I hear you. I wasn't, in fact, going to say anything else about it, until you @tted me.
We're as disturbed by this shit as the rest of you. And I'd also like to say that when you see huge protests being conducted by residents of your state, many of whom are lifelong friends, "fuck Texas and texans" is, well, it's fucking demeaning. But, i'll take it.
IDGAF about the USA. I guess I'm feeling what some of you felt with Trump.
I won't make ANY MORE arguments about Texas.

My last post was mostly about men's ability to be allies.
@sweeterthan (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=50) , I've emailed my representatives, both state and federal, regarding this issue, as I do that regarding ANY issue about which I'm serious.
I message Ronny Jackson of the federal house district 13. I message senators Cornyn and Cruz.
I message Four Price, who is my state congressman.
I message all of these people weekly.
I'm not going to defend Texas anymore.

But, do you seriously think men shouldn't speak on this issue, like, at ALL?

sweeterthan

10-14-2021, 07:52 AM

But, do you seriously think men shouldn't speak on this issue, like, at ALL?

I never said "at all". I said it seems like people without a uterus should listen to those with a uterus. Abortion is considered a "hot button issue" that gets the conservative base riled up. Those voters think they have the right to make reproductive decisions for all because of the Bible or something without ever giving a second thought to what happens after these babies are born. Those people should definitely stfu. If they actually trusted their god, they'd live and let live.

I'll never forget the feeling I had when RBG died. I saw it on twitter and ran out of the room my kids were in. I was scared. I knew what it meant coz DumbDumb was president. The whole thing is infuriating because Roe vs. Wade settled this for all people. It shouldn't be up for discussion EVER. Its not anyone's business EVER. I don't give a fuck if you're the sperm donor. This is about healthcare. Not your body. Not your choice.

elevenism

10-15-2021, 05:11 AM

I would like to apologize to anyone I've offended in this thread.
It just sucks when you're passionate about something, and that thing becomes awful. I assume some of you were USA patriots, and lost THAT. I never really was- that's why my little location thing says Republic of Texas.
I've definitely done more talking than listening, here, and when I look back at all of it, I feel somewhat ashamed of myself.

I'm sorry, y'all, if I seemed like I was being an asshole.

elevenism

12-04-2021, 02:23 PM

I'm really scared that Trump's SCOTUS is aiming to PRETTY much overturn Roe v Wade.

And I'm sorry, but if this HAPPENS, that's what it has become- a political tool, used, in THIS case, to appease right wing dominionist theocrats.
This is the end of the Supreme Court as we know it.
Keep in mind that there hasn't been a Dem nominated supreme court majority since 1969.
But, even with R nominated justices, until now, SCOTUS interpreted the law in a manner that upheld the will of the people.

3/4 of Americans believe that reproductive issues are between a woman and her doctor.
THIS SCOTUS, though, seems poised to allow the criminalization of abortion in HUGE areas of the country.

I'm holding my breath on this Mississippi ruling.
5 Justices sound like they're ready to overturn Roe, and over a dozen states(?) have "trigger laws" that will.go.into effect immediately, pending this upcoming ruling.

I DID NOT THINK THIS WAS POSSIBLE!

(also, I wrote another LONG message on the subject to my congressman, Ronny Jackson. He never writes back, even though you can choose to receive a response. I think you only get a "response" if you agree with him: a stock response. I asked him if he was SCARED to write me back, or what: cordially and formally PRETTY much called.him a pussy.)

allegate

12-21-2021, 02:35 PM

holy forking shirt.

https://c10.patreonusercontent.com/3/eyJ3Ijo2MjB9/patreon-media/p/post/60143572/b87eb70fb59c4e56b182289ef1d651e2/1.jpg?token-time=1641340800&token-hash=AOJMt64oFCwmzT-2BVUsuSo_75_O4cHDkzZmGtW9uDQ%3D

muad'nin

03-29-2022, 06:08 AM

https://youtu.be/jY18PElK7Ss

Just chilling.

Pillfred

03-31-2022, 08:16 PM

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/5-fetuses-found-in-home-of-dc-anti-abortion-activist-police/3013443/

So this happened. [emoji51]

ickyvicky

04-01-2022, 09:01 AM

So sick

allegate

04-04-2022, 09:00 PM

I saw that on reddit; the brief interview with the crazy-as-fuck woman made it sound like it was planned, like they're the ones who called the cops, so they could "expose" something.

lady all you exposed was how nutso you people are.

allegate

04-05-2022, 09:13 PM

Arrested Anti-Abortion Activist Claims She Was Given 115 Fetuses (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/arrested-anti-abortion-activist-claims-she-was-given-115-fetuses/ar-AAVSwVf?ocid=uxbndlbing)

See?
They claim they had approached and taken the fetuses from a driver for Curtis Bay Medical Waste Services who was loading boxes into a vehicle.

“We asked him if he knew what was in the boxes, and after he said no, we told him: dead babies,” Bukovinac said Tuesday. “The driver was visibly shaken. After he confirmed the boxes were from Washington Surgi, I asked him, ‘Would you get in trouble if we took one of these boxes?’”

Bukovinac said the driver willingly handed the box over after she and Handy told him they wanted to give the contents “a proper burial and a funeral.” I have so many doubts.

Patrick_Nicholas

05-12-2022, 03:42 PM

allegro

05-12-2022, 06:46 PM

I'm a bit late, but it's still relatively fresh. The Senate has blocked a bill to protect access to abortion in case the Supreme Court were to do away with RvW; you can thank Democrat-in-name-only Joe Manchin for this.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/11/politics/senate-abortion-rights-vote-roe-v-wade/index.html

The Senate needed 60 votes for it to pass, unless they got 2 Democrats to decide to blow out the filibuster; which they don’t want to do, because the minute Republicans take control of the Senate, the Republicans will pass a bill that not only federally bans abortion but now Senate Republicans are also talking about banning IUDs and “abortion pills” (which usually aren’t always abortion pills at all).

They voted only to publicize where each Senator stood before the midterms.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2022/5/11/23065959/senate-abortion-vote-womens-health-protection-act

The 49-51 vote marks the second time this year the upper chamber has voted on the issue and been unable to advance the legislation. While the outcome was expected, Democrats said the vote was necessary to show where lawmakers stand on abortion rights in the wake of a Politico report that revealed the Supreme Court is on track to overturn Roe v. Wade.

“People in our country need to know where we all stand on the issue of protecting a woman’s right to control her own body. That’s it,” Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) told Vox before the vote.

Patrick_Nicholas

06-24-2022, 10:23 AM

versusreality

06-24-2022, 12:37 PM

fuck this country

allegro

06-24-2022, 12:40 PM

The mother of all US abortion bans is officially here. Now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned, it's safe to say that we are absolutely fucked.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/24/roe-v-wade-overturned-by-supreme-court-ending-federal-abortion-rights.html

Here's the text of the opinion. It's ... staggering.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

allegate

06-24-2022, 04:46 PM

I think Wiley knew what today was going to be about.

https://assets.amuniversal.com/2ca03a40cd64013ab0c1005056a9545d

Patrick_Nicholas

06-25-2022, 07:34 AM

GastonKappa

06-25-2022, 10:50 AM

God’s probably contemplating hitting that reset button considering how they use Him as a excuse to take away women’s autonomous rights.

allegro

06-25-2022, 11:23 AM

I'm out of the loop, but which parts of the Constitution were used to cover abortion (and healthcare in general) before the Supreme Court decided they didn't (on the grounds that the seemingly unchangeable Constitution doesn't mention abortion specifically)?

The right to privacy.

Which, technically, isn’t IN the Constitution. Not specifically. Only by INFERENCE.

The closest we get is the 5th Amendment, “Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

Also by the 14th Amendment Due Process clause.

“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Roe was, technically, flawed based on “Constitutionality.”

And here’s the kicker …

Because the Constitution provides NO rights that protect the autonomy of a person’s body. Women’s rights? Women didn’t get to VOTE until the 20th Century.

Democrats (AND SOME REPUBLICANS (https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/press/op-ed/opinion-cnn-the-us-constitution-does-not-guarantee-women-equality-we-intend-to-change-that)) in Congress have been trying to pass an Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution since forever.

^^

The US Constitution does not guarantee women the same rights and protections as men. To the surprise of many, it contains no explicit protection against discrimination on the basis of sex.

We intend to change that to ensure that "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

Note that the 2nd Amendment does not provide for an individual’s use of a gun for self-defense, either. Nothing in 2A says or infers that. But our Bill of Rights was modeled on the British Bill of Rights of 1689 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689), so conservatives “assume” that the founders “intended” to include that (although the founders could have written it that way if they did want to include it). The textualist Justices are only textualists when it serves their agenda.

allegro

06-25-2022, 01:06 PM

Several states have triggered full abortion bans that went into effect overnight.

Tennessee’s former law (pre-Roe) would go into effect in 30 days, but the Governor is pushing the TN GOP legislature to make it effective immediately.

Most of these pre-Roe “zombie” laws that ban abortion totally criminalize it, with jail time and huge fines for the pregnant person, considering it homicide, with zero exceptions for incest, rape, etc.

Michigan has a Democrat Governor and a totally Republican legislature. The zombie abortion law criminalizes abortion, with no exceptions, and the legislature wants to enact it immediately. The Governor intends to veto any attempt, but her job is up for grabs this November.

The thing that gets to me the most is the common conservative response on Twitter:

“Don’t want to get pregnant? Keep your legs together.”

allegate

06-25-2022, 01:53 PM

Yeah it's almost like the men don't want to take any responsibility for their actions and want to continue to blame women for everything.

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1540543760974635011 (https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1540543760974635011?s=21&t=_behtGKJMZjI8XsiVKq_vw)

allegro

06-25-2022, 04:13 PM

Yeah it's almost like the men don't want to take any responsibility for their actions and want to continue to blame women for everything.

It’s not just the men insisting on this garbage. This woman is on the Utah state legislature:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR1DBLn5/?k=1

But, people are taking to the streets. Paybacks are coming. (I hope.)

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR1m63GM/?k=1

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR1mxXFF/?k=1

M1ke

06-25-2022, 10:31 PM

When I road trip from Canada to Cleveland in September, should I bring as much Plan B as I can carry? And if I do that, where would be the best place to donate it so that it most easily gets into the hands of those who need it?

allegate

06-26-2022, 09:21 AM

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1540852015693037568 (https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1540852015693037568?s=21&t=alV0wtib8g29doOYXk37Wg)

There did seem to be a dearth of POC at the abortion rallies.

nmitchell86

06-27-2022, 12:09 AM

Jinsai

06-27-2022, 01:16 AM

Plan B is a contraceptive, like a condom. Bring mifepristone.

I thought Plan B was if your pull-out timing was off. The "life begins at conception" people want to claim that it's a human being as soon as fertilization happens, so to them Plan B is a form of murder.

You're not dealing with sane people.

Frozen Beach

06-27-2022, 04:19 AM

burnmotherfucker!

06-27-2022, 05:17 AM

So, I try not to keep myself in an echo chamber. I read opinions about many different things from many different people. I've spent the last two weeks with my cousin, who is a conservative. Basically, I was exposed to a lot of conservative talking points. He listens to things like Steven Crowder, Gavin Mcinnes, Fox News. Though he admittedly doesn't agree with everything they say, and he laughs when I ridicule them for saying dumb shit. Conservatives are trying to push this as a morality issue, not a political issue. But this feels more like payback for the pushback against people who were anti vax/anti mask for COVID. The morality thing doesn't make sense either. People like Steven Crowder are against abortion, but then say things like "It's not banned, it's now in the hands of the states. And you can go to another state." If this is about morality, why the hell would they be okay with it being up to the states? Shouldn't they, you know, be against it entirely since it's, in their eyes, immoral? Not buying it.

I grew up around tons of conservatives. Most of my family are conservative. I went to a Baptist church when I was a kid. This is 100% about morality to them. They think abortion is murder after conception. Their preachers tell them that. The pundits are using the "states rights" thing to downplay the severity of the situation at the moment. Trust me, they DO want it outlawed in EVERY state. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a long term plan to do just that. This thing goes back waaaaay deeper than covid times.

The whole religious argument has always been ridiculous to me. I mean it makes LESS sense if you believe in heaven and all that. If babies are born and grow up, half of them are not going to be christian and they'll go to hell. But if all fetuses were aborted, they'd ALL go to heaven. If getting souls into heaven is really what they cared about (and they say that's #1 in their book) then abortion is 100% effective.

I know that's a crude argument, but the thing is when you take on their nutty worldview things like that actually check out logically. I guess that's why they don't come to that conclusion. They don't use logic. I pity them, they are all being used.

Also, I don't mean to paint with a broad brush. Lot's of people claim Christianity and don't believe in such nonsense. I'm just referring to the huge majority of evangelical/fundamentalists that the right keeps in their back pocket, and on the supreme court.

Jinsai

06-27-2022, 10:20 AM

Conservatives are trying to push this as a morality issue, not a political issue.

Isn't that always the way though...

These people want you to hear them cry about the poor babies, wailing about how it's mass murder. Then, they're off on a strange non-sequitur tangent into a discussion about homosexual marriage and the "sanctity of the traditional wedding," and for a minute we're all standing here, scratching our heads, wondering how these two issues are related. If anything, they should love homosexual relationships: less abortions, generally. Then suddenly they don't like contraception or sex-ed in schools, where you'd think we'd need it most if we're really trying to avoid unwanted pregnancies...

Then you figure it out. It's not about saving the babies. It's not about the sanctity of marriage. It's not about god or moral purity or "doing what's right."

It's about being a snoopy fuck who gives way too much of a damn what other consenting people are doing in their bedrooms... all that fornicating and fucking, partying and enjoying themselves... well here I am in my cloistered household with my ten kids, and my husband/wife that I married when I was 19 years old or some shit, whatever my parents insisted I do to remain moral and pure while they home schooled me... and... well... it's just not FAIR! Why, they even skip church on sundays and laugh at my craaaaaazy beliefs!!! Well, who's laughing now motherfuckers! NOW you have to raise those kids just like I did, and live a shitty life where I'm trapped and I gave away my future and free agency to a book filled with bronze age ideas. I wasn't stupid, you're all evil!

When you look at it that way, it all makes a lot more sense.

allegro

06-27-2022, 11:40 AM

allegro

06-27-2022, 12:22 PM

Bring mifepristone.

We will see a LOT more of this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1012676

https://aidaccess.org/

allegro

06-27-2022, 12:35 PM

So, I try not to keep myself in an echo chamber. I read opinions about many different things from many different people. I've spent the last two weeks with my cousin, who is a conservative. Basically, I was exposed to a lot of conservative talking points. He listens to things like Steven Crowder, Gavin Mcinnes, Fox News. Though he admittedly doesn't agree with everything they say, and he laughs when I ridicule them for saying dumb shit. Conservatives are trying to push this as a morality issue, not a political issue. But this feels more like payback for the pushback against people who were anti vax/anti mask for COVID. The morality thing doesn't make sense either. People like Steven Crowder are against abortion, but then say things like "It's not banned, it's now in the hands of the states. And you can go to another state." If this is about morality, why the hell would they be okay with it being up to the states? Shouldn't they, you know, be against it entirely since it's, in their eyes, immoral? Not buying it.

Fox (PARTICULARLY via Tucker Carlson) has been STRONGLY pushing the Great Replacement theory.

Banning abortion is, for them, a way of stopping the Great Replacement.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/12/1098585429/supremacy-movements-unite-over-abortion-restriction-though-for-different-reasons

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/19/tucker-carlson-feigned-ignorance-over-great-replac/

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/qjb7ad/cpac-head-promotes-abortion-ban-to-stave-off-great-replacement

Matt Schlapp, the head of the influential Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) and a confidant to former President Donald Trump, says that overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide, would be a good “first step” in fixing what he says is the problem of immigration in the U.S.

And in doing so, he floated a core concern of white supremacists’ original “great replacement theory” that even fringe GOP politicians haven’t been willing to voice publicly: that immigrants are outbreeding the native-born population and threatening to replace them in society.

Rep. Mary Miller Freudian (?) slip: Overturning Roe is a “victory for white life.”

https://youtu.be/LQQAhvnhPWg

allegate

06-27-2022, 01:01 PM

WE WOULD DO SOMETHING, BUT THEN WE WOULDN’T HAVE THE POWER TO DO SOMETHING, SO WE CAN’T DO SOMETHING (https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/we-would-do-something-but-then-we-wouldnt-have-the-power-to-do-something-so-we-cant-do-something)
We can agree that the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade was a shock to us all. Who could have predicted the recent events our supporters have been predicting would happen for years? And honestly, it’s disappointing to find out that our friends across the aisle have been planning this for decades while only letting us know in books, television shows, and drive-time radio programs. That’s why this decision hurts—and surprises—all of us equally.

It makes sense you’d feel angry at what’s happening. It makes sense you feel a sense of rage. Good! We’ll need that passion in November. As the people in power, we can tell you that the best way to solve a problem happening right now is us waiting for you to vote later. Because if we did something now, some people might not vote for us. And if they don’t vote for us later, then we can’t do something later! You see the problem.
So many good parts but this one hits the nail:
Then we found ourselves in the position of asking whether it’s really worth doing something or not if people who were never going to support us still won’t support us?
They're so lazy and disingenuous.

Jinsai

06-27-2022, 01:10 PM

If they ban In Vitro, the white birth rate is gonna PLUMMET.

These aren't the GOP's best and brightest, let me tell you. Their whole "white people need a pity party" plan has a few other flaws too. This Roe decision seems like a tipping point to just cutting the shit though. Suddenly we've got some really emboldened assholes really letting the "Make America Great Again" cat out of the bag in a scary way. Like asking for us to review other critical civil rights decisions from the past 70 years or so regarding segregation. What's going on right now is the most insane thing I've ever seen happen in this country politically.

allegro

06-27-2022, 02:00 PM

They're so lazy and disingenuous.

It's not "lazy" - it's more that they are afraid of voters that don't even vote, and they're afraid of the right wing. Things have become WAY more polarized over the last 40 years.

Look at this list:

Social Security Act of 1965
Civil Rights Act of 1964
Higher Education Act of 1965 (creation of Pell Grants)
Medicare and Medicaid Act of 1965
Voters Rights Act of 1965
Violence Against Women Act of 1994
Affordable Care Act of 2010

Every time any major "liberal" legislation is passed, there's a huge "backlash" of conservatives who RUSH the polls. And that's the one thing that Republicans have over "left" voters: The ability to draw people to the polls.

The left? Not so much. Bitch a lot, but don't show up.

Exhibit A?

Richard Nixon vs. George McGovern. The hippies were out protesting, en masse, everywhere. Against Nixon, against Vietnam, against everything.

Then Nixon won his re-election, BY A FUCKING LANDSLIDE.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/ElectoralCollege1972.svg/348px-ElectoralCollege1972.svg.png

Carter v. Reagan? Same thing. Technically, Carter was fairly liberal. He put solar panels on the White House roof. He believed in advancing the U.S. policy in human rights; arms restraint; reduction of arms; reduce nuclear arms.

Reagan DESTROYED HIM.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/ElectoralCollege1980.svg/348px-ElectoralCollege1980.svg.png

The left: All talk, no action.

Reagan's policies are STILL fucking us up (https://www.salon.com/2014/04/19/reaganomics_killed_americas_middle_class_partner/).

The inflation we are experiencing, today? It's NOTHING compared to what we experienced during Reagan. The prime rate peaked at 20.5% in August 1981.

allegro

06-27-2022, 02:19 PM

These aren't the GOP's best and brightest, let me tell you. Their whole "white people need a pity party" plan has a few other flaws too. This Roe decision seems like a tipping point to just cutting the shit though. Suddenly we've got some really emboldened assholes really letting the "Make America Great Again" cat out of the bag in a scary way. Like asking for us to review other critical civil rights decisions from the past 70 years or so regarding segregation. What's going on right now is the most insane thing I've ever seen happen in this country politically.

I agree that it's insane, probably because we feel kind of helpless against it? I can't FORCE people to vote strategically vs. voting for a populist.

But, this cat's been there in plain sight all along. The left hasn't been paying attention or just has hyper-focused on personal singular things they care about.

You could see it happening during Trump. The storm troopers on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during Black Lives Matter protests. Peaceful protesters in D.C. TEARGASSED because Trump wanted to do a photo-op at a nearby church. Trump calling anti-semitic racists in Charlotte "very fine people." Trump telling a conference of police to treat arrested people more roughly. It was all like we'd already crossed into dystopia.

Then, January 6th.

Meanwhile, what's also already happened:

* SCOTUS overturned the Voters Rights Act
* SCOTUS overturned Affirmative Action
* SCOTUS consistently upheld Qualified Immunity

All along, the Federalist Society has had an agenda, playing a game of Chess.

And they're winning.

This "Green New Deal" and "Medicare for All" that progressives want?

The Federalist Society has had a plan against that, all along.

In the form of a fully-stacked Federal court, filled with VERY young, VERY conservative textualists who will strike down any of that type of Federal legislation.

They already have the EPA in their sites.

The EPA was created during the NIXON administration. Those days are LONG gone.

Because profit and capitalism has been the main focus all along.

There's NO WAY that they're EVER going to allow all that money they're raking in via Big Pharma and Big Box medical go away. Ever.

They've stacked the deck, it started long ago, and they got the Golden Puppet with Trump.

allegate

06-27-2022, 04:50 PM

Sarah Huckabee Sanders under fire for claiming post-Roe America makes children as safe in the womb as ‘in the classroom’ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sarah-huckabee-sanders-under-fire-for-claiming-post-roe-america-makes-children-as-safe-in-the-womb-as-in-the-classroom/ar-AAYTaA1?ocid=uxbndlbing)
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has sparked fury on social media after a recent speech resurfaced, in which she compared the safety of children inside a mother’s womb to their security in classrooms in post-Roe America.

“We will make sure that when a kid is in the womb, they’re as safe as they are in a classroom, the workplace, a nursing home,” Ms Sanders said at a rally last month.Uh, well that's awkward AF.

allegate

06-28-2022, 09:26 AM

https://twitter.com/MBeau85/status/1541538107232845826

whoo-wee at that sign.

elevenism

06-28-2022, 02:24 PM

allegro

06-28-2022, 03:22 PM

I'm not all the way back online, but I wanted to lay this gem on you guys:

https://youtu.be/3CY5hL8SVQg

Top period tracking app says HELL YES they'll share your data with police. Mega tech companies like Google, Facebook etc, won't say, which means they will, too, I'm afraid.

Edit: so, impending technotheocracy?

Pregnancy tests work as soon as 10 days after UNPROTECTED (damned iPhone) sex.

Plan B can prevent up to 96% of pregnancies when taken within 5 days of unprotected sex. Plan B prevents the release of an egg from the ovary.

Waiting for a “period tracker” is the risky way to determine if you are pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy.

Period trackers are mostly for telling you when you’re ovulating for when you WANT to get pregnant, or for when you don’t want to be on your period while on vacation.

But you can have what appears to be your “normal” spotty period and still be pregnant.

If a person has had either failed birth control or unprotected sex, they should immediately get Plan B, and take a pregnancy test after 10 days. You then have up to 10 weeks (70 days) to use mifepristone or misoprostol.

nmitchell86

06-28-2022, 09:38 PM

I thought Plan B was if your pull-out timing was off. The "life begins at conception" people want to claim that it's a human being as soon as fertilization happens, so to them Plan B is a form of murder.

You're not dealing with sane people.

You are right that we are not dealing with sane people. And you're also right, Plan B is for if your "pull-out timing is off". Plan B only works on non-fertilized egg. As soon as you nut in the coochie, it does not mean the egg is fertilized and conception. Conception can actually take place up to a day later. Bottom line, Plan-B will not induce an abortion eight weeks after conception. S C I E N C E. It's fun to argue with the right-wing shit heads, (I get it) but time is money and shit is real right now. Women who need reproductive health care (real serious situations...) need Mifepristone in a good situation or an actual procedure. More access to the right drugs will help clandestine reproductive health services.

allegro

06-28-2022, 10:57 PM

it does not mean the egg is fertilized and conception. Conception can actually take place up to a day later.

Sperm can live in the reproductive tract for 5-6 days.

Anyone using “pull-out timing” should not be having sex. Middle school Sex Ed teaches that a small amount of sperm leaks out during the process of intercourse, enough to impregnate.

elevenism

06-29-2022, 02:32 PM

Pregnancy tests work as soon as 10 days after UNPROTECTED (damned iPhone) sex.

Plan B can prevent up to 96% of pregnancies when taken within 5 days of unprotected sex. Plan B prevents the release of an egg from the ovary.

Waiting for a “period tracker” is the risky way to determine if you are pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy.

Period trackers are mostly for telling you when you’re ovulating for when you WANT to get pregnant, or for when you don’t want to be on your period while on vacation.

But you can have what appears to be your “normal” spotty period and still be pregnant.

If a person has had either failed birth control or unprotected sex, they should immediately get Plan B, and take a pregnancy test after 10 days. You then have up to 10 weeks (70 days) to use mifepristone or misoprostol.

Damned fine advice.

My point, though, is the horrifying (very) near future vibe in this piece of news.

Many of these tech companies that own our information either refuse to say, or flat out say they WILL, share the info of women seeking abortions in states with bans, with the cops. I THINK that, depending on the impending law and the state, they can be LEGALLY compelled to share such information.
Edit: and I'm not just talking about period tracking apps. I'm talking about DMs and emails and shit.

This, to me, sounds like the plot of a black mirror episode, or a dystopian future sci-fi film.

And ten times out of nine, many states will be coming for that Plan B, too.

If I were a woman, I wouldn't necessarily be expecting access to Plan B, legally, in the near future.

allegate

06-29-2022, 03:02 PM

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1541796574325506053

I swear, these bastardes.

Jinsai

06-29-2022, 03:16 PM

elevenism

06-29-2022, 06:45 PM

now the Texas AG is suggesting he wants to look at upholding and defending the state's sodomy laws if SCOTUS wants to put them up for review.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/texas-sodomy-supreme-court-lawrence-paxton-lgbtq/

Holy fucking god. See, I thought this might happen, in multiple states, but not this FAST.

So let's just look at Texas as an example of how this shit might play out, because i know this place.
Trump won Texas in 2020 with 52% of the vote. That's PRETTY goddamn close to a 50/50 split.
Furthermore, average moderate texas Republican voters, in my experience, DON'T support shit like this: not abortion bans, not sodomy bans.
Libertarian minded Republican voters GODDAMN sure don't support it.
The only people down for this insanity are theo-cons, and I guess, homophobes, in the sodomy case.
Regular ass conservatives want SMALL government, NOT governmental overreach.
So, 99% of dems will oppose such bans, and likely half of Republicans, in this state.
What in the fuck will that look like? You wind up with MASSIVELY unpopular, restrictive law.
This stuff is the will of the MINORITY of the minority party: the one who's won the presidential popular vote once in 30 years.
And then, texas is NOT the only state like this. Look at Georgia, Louisiana, etc. This is how a LOT of this country is.

A red wave could enshrine a lot of this into FEDERAL law, OR, states with bought off politicians, many of whom don't actually CARE about this shit, could codify or resurrect wildly unpopular STATE laws, and have these decisions held up by this toxic ass, fucked up, hyperpartisan SCOTUS.

I still can't believe this shit is really happening. Like I've seen documentaries about these fringe lunatics, and the calculated, decades long rise of the evangelical right, but I never dreamed they'd get here.

Do we see massive partisan changes? Historic social unrest? Does the US even SURVIVE this shit?
Seriously, The ole' American experiment appears to be breaking at the seams. This isn't supposed to be minority rule through the judicial system.

THIS state already blocked pre Roe abortion law from going into effect, temporarily, but there will likely be a countersuit.

allegro

06-29-2022, 08:11 PM

elevenism, you’re forgetting that a whole shitload of the religious right have recently migrated to your state, “escaping” their “woke” states.

elevenism

06-29-2022, 09:15 PM

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475), you’re forgetting that a whole shitload of the religious right have recently migrated to your state, “escaping” their “woke” states.

This is true. Awful bastards.

But, STILL.
I was just using this state as an example. Again, what I'm describing is a shitload of the damn COUNTRY.

And I mean, HOW many people came here? Under no circumstances do I think it's enough to create a situation wherein ANY kind of majority, or anything NEAR a majority, supports a total abortion ban, or reinstating sodomy laws.

In fact, I live in the reddest district in the damn country, and there's no chance of majority support for that shit HERE, because Amarillo is halfway cool, as is Witchita Falls. It's the same story as the rest of the state, and a lot of the country: 70% of people in this district live in an urban environment, with punk rock shows and tattoo shops and all that cool shit.

I'd even speculate that it'd be hard to get majority support for those things in this TOWN of 2000.
The people I know are red because they see it as the "freedom" party, and/or they like guns, NOT because they want bedroom activities litigated or total abortion bans.

I just don't see these measures gaining widespread support ANYWHERE, really.
And I'm literally in the goddamn likeliest spot on the map, quantitatively, where they seemingly WOULD be popular.

Jinsai

06-30-2022, 10:42 AM

Never mind that those old sodomy laws aren’t specifically targeting anal sex, but oral and in some cases anything non-missionary, and it doesn’t have to be homosexual. In a modern application, anti sodomy laws would be just as laughably prude as they are homophobic, and for that reason alone, the threat of revisiting legal action against sodomy isn’t something we need to worry about realistically happening, it’s the emboldened thought that counts.

Theres a bunch of old cranky, dusty laws still on the books just because we never bothered to put them away... like about how to properly harness up your horse outside the saloon, to blatantly unconstitutional stuff like laws preventing an atheist from running for political office.

allegro

06-30-2022, 11:49 AM

Kansas is letting voters decide:

https://www.kwch.com/2022/06/24/kansans-vote-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion-rights-aug-2/

allegro

06-30-2022, 12:06 PM

Just now in the Washington Post:

A Florida judge on Thursday blocked a new law to ban abortions in the state after 15 weeks of pregnancy, saying the measure is unconstitutional because it violates the privacy provision of the state’s constitution. The temporary injunction by Leon County Circuit Judge John C. Cooper is expected to take effect as soon as a written order is signed. The law is slated to take effect Friday. The decision comes nearly a week after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, leaving it up to states to regulate abortion. The state is expected to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, where Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has appointed three of the seven justices.

Note that SCOTUS isn’t intended to get involved in STATE Constitution issues, AND this latest SCOTUS decision deliberately kicked decisions BACK to the individual states.

This is VERY interesting.

If they got enough voters to the polls in each state to vote on these referendums (abortion, etc.), there would ABSOLUTELY be state constitutional amendments providing privacy, equality and individual rights.

elevenism

06-30-2022, 12:29 PM

@allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) re: needing warrants, a metric fuckton of our data is for sale, through data brokers. Law enforcement has already used such brokers to prosecute people for other crimes in recent years, no warrant needed.

And the menstrual cycle app, Stardust, which is insanely popular, SPECIFICALLY stated that they'd provide data to law enforcement pursuing women potentially seeking abortion procedures WITHOUT the requirement of a warrant.

So i wouldnt count on Alphabet or Meta or Uber or ANY of the companies who dodged the question, to behave any differently. I mean, they want gvmt support, right?
They'll do whatever it takes to protect the bottom line.

as far as crossing state lines, my understanding is that multiple state legislatures/anti abortion lobbyists are already looking at legislation to keep women from seeking abortion in other states, with the caveat being that the DOJ would consider it a violation of interstate commerce.

But then, that's THIS DOJ.

And regarding sharing information online, well, I hear you.
But it's become SO integrated into our society, to speak to friends online.

Suppose such legislation IS reached in a state, and Texas Cheri emails NM Sharee, asking about clinics...

I mean, you're right: the whole privacy bullshit already went out the window.

I'm just thinking about the ramifications in a post roe society. I read a few articles, found this breaking points segment, and, yeah. It freaks me out.
@Jinsai (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) my original post mentioned hetero sodomy, but I edited it out as i was specifically using my state as an example, where heterosexual sodomy is NOT on the books at this time.
I DO remember a terrifying 1991 article in a stolen Playboy, about a woman successfully having her ex husband prosecuted for going down on her.

elevenism

06-30-2022, 12:32 PM

Furthermore, for me, the most fucked up thing about ALL of this, aside from the thing itself, is that all of this shit is coming down to the courts.

SCOTUS says this, texas and Florida judge say that, etc.

This is not gvmt of/by/for the people. Rather, this is government by legal argument.

Pillfred

06-30-2022, 02:03 PM

To be clear they are not figuratively talking about prosecuting women who cross state lines or attempt too??? Is this a possibility? Because to my ignorant ass that seems very fucking suspect.

*Just found this. Seems like it will be unlikely.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/brett-kavanaugh-abortion-travel-ban-dobbs.html

elevenism

06-30-2022, 02:06 PM

I don’t care if they’re “already looking at” ways to prevent women from seeking abortions in other states; that’s strictly unconstitutional AND it’s fucking impossible. What are they gonna do? Put state border control on every inch of every border, armed with pregnancy tests and ultrasound equipment?

Get a grip.

It’s about as possible as taking people’s guns.

They’re only SAYING they want to do this TO GET VOTES.

Wellllllll, yeah.

This is why my psych lady told me to limit my news intake.

My mind always goes to the darkest possible place, and I appreciate what you're saying, here.

STILL, though, I'm highly concerned about the future of this country wrt litigation from appointed judges vs legislation by elected officials

allegro

06-30-2022, 02:37 PM

Just found this. Seems like it will be unlikely.

Exactly. It's not only unlikely, it's logistically impossible!!!

Think about it: States can't even manage to control UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS from traveling between states. We can't manage to find people with EXPIRED VISAS!!

How the FUCK do we think that they're going to be able to do anything about "PREGNANT people?!"

It's not like during pre-emancipation south: "Look! There's a NEGRO!!!! WE DON'T ALLOW ANY OF THEM TO BE FREE IN THESE HERE PARTS! LET'S HANG 'EM!"

Pregnant people don't suddenly sprout a rash in the shape of a P on their foreheads.

https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Invasion-of-the-Body-Snatchers-1.jpg

allegate

06-30-2022, 04:25 PM

Pregnant people don't suddenly sprout a rash in the shape of a P on their foreheads.

I mean...they kind of do sprout something. ;)

allegro

06-30-2022, 04:42 PM

I mean...they kind of do sprout something. ;)

It takes a while to notice.

Ever watch this show?

https://youtu.be/9282w7b1FKA

Pillfred

06-30-2022, 08:44 PM

allegro

That’s what I was thinking. I had heard idea kicked around and I was sure there’s no way this can be a real possibility. That said I wouldn’t be surprised if some Governor tried to enforce it. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if mine still does. (Noem)

*mention formatting issues

Jinsai

07-01-2022, 09:19 AM

allegro

07-01-2022, 10:56 AM

I’m getting hesitant to say “but that’ll never happen.” Never forget how advanced our tech is getting at following you around. There’s also that fact that they’ve identified people from the Jan 6th crowd who were wearing masks at the event. As much as I want to see these assholes sit the revolution out in jail, it’s still disconcerting

Tech follows you after the fact. It doesn’t stop you in a car before. Only armed police do that.

If this happens, this country will be pretty much totally gone, entirely. Loss of all rights, let alone abortion rights.

That’s a police state, where pregnant women (trans people will likely be killed immediately) are imprisoned, likely with ankle monitors.

If we fear this might happen (ala Handmaid’s Tale … or, hell, the first 200 years of this country for black and indigenous people), get out now, before it’s too late.

All females will have their money cut off because funds are tagged at the bank by gender, and your passports will be locked down. White females able to reproduce won’t be able to leave. Housed in maternity camps.

Yeah, that’s true dystopia.

elevenism

07-01-2022, 04:55 PM

Exactly. It's not only unlikely, it's logistically impossible!!!

Think about it: States can't even manage to control UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS from traveling between states. We can't manage to find people with EXPIRED VISAS!!

Except they DO use social media to find and deport undocumented people.
That's the precise thing that led to my concern.

And yeah, after the fact with tech: as far as cars? uber is losing money and needs gvmt support.
They'll probably give up the info, and people WILL be prosecuted.

I know I'm the doomsday motherfucker or whatever, but I wouldn't call any of this impossible.

Edit: and YES. Police state. Handmaid's Tale. Year Zero. That's EXACTLY where I'm afraid we're going, here: not all at ONCE, mind you, but incrementally? Absolutely.
I've been talking about this shit since the early 2000s.

Perhaps this shit will be stemmed by a new soc-lib counterculture

elevenism

07-01-2022, 09:19 PM

@allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) I honestly feel like you're fucking with me in public, now. I didn't say Ohio to anywhere. I don't know shit about Ohio or illanoise...it might as well be another fucking planet to me. Is Illinois a town in Chicago?
Jokes aside.
I said Texas to new Mexico.
That WILL happen.

Yeah, no, I read a book a week for like 20 years, but I missed Huxley and Bradbury and Orwell, and Kate Chopin, and Gilman, and Trumbo...all that stuff was labeled "transgressive." So I wasn't allowed to read it.

I DIDN'T read Atwood, yet, to be fair.
But I did watch the tv adaptation. (Sadly, this sounds like another joke, but it isn't. I'll read it soon).

My point, here, is that a lot of this stuff is coming to fruition.

And I feel like several metric fucktons of leftitists aren't seeing the "writing on the wall," to quote a line from Lil Wayne. It's amazing that he came up with that.

ANYWAY, this is NO FUCKING JOKE.

I'm just fucking FLOORED that I'm the only person here concerned about some of these issues.

It's time to get serious. I'm done fucking around.

There's some shit I'd like to do...

Anyway, the time to stand up is coming SOON.

elevenism

07-02-2022, 06:32 AM

Well, at least that.

I'm on the fence this time, though, as to whether I should calm down or not, even with friendly intervention.

I DO know that constant worry like this isn't good in the mental health department.

But these fuckers are already talking about a full on nation wide abortion ban.

GulDukat

07-08-2022, 03:59 PM

Here is what is in Biden's executive order.
(https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/08/politics/what-is-in-biden-abortion-executive-order/index.html)

elevenism

07-18-2022, 09:36 PM

Apparently, i'm not the only one worried about interstate travel for abortion.

Last thursday, Congressional Republicans blocked a bill to protect the right of women to (https://news.yahoo.com/republicans-block-bill-protect-women-220030884.html)seek abortions across state lines.

A second, similar bill just passed the house, but I'll eat my hat if it clears the senate with a filibuster proof majority.

Every house Republican voted against the first bill, and 205 of 208 voted against the second bill.

Missouri, Texas and Arkansas (at LEAST) are already aiming to prosecute such women, with Texas planning to use the "bounty bill" approach.

YES, interstate travel has been protected since, what, the late 1800s? But I sure don't trust this supreme court to uphold SHIT when it comes to abortion.

These are preemptive federal attempts to block dystopian shit we already KNOW some states will try. Missouri, Texas and Alabama are already hard at work passing such measures.

elevenism

07-18-2022, 10:35 PM

versusreality

07-19-2022, 04:19 AM

This country is disgusting.

I want receipts for all these Republican politicians who had secret abortions with their mistresses.

I'm sure Trump is on that list too.

Pillfred

07-19-2022, 02:36 PM

While I'm at it, per CNN, a Texas woman was forced to carry a DEAD FETUS for TWO WEEKS, because the procedure to remove a dead fetus is pretty much identical to an abortion.
Therefore, because multiple doctors were terrified of running afoul of the Texas law, they refused to perform the procedure.

Carrying around a dead fetus can cause everything from permanent sterility to organ failure.

My niece just lost a baby I was worried they may pull some shit like that here in S.D. but luckily she didn’t have to wait. I can’t imagine having to deal with both things at the same time.

allegate

07-19-2022, 03:23 PM

https://twitter.com/lyta_gold/status/1549005417786888192

weird.

allegate

08-02-2022, 10:07 AM

https://twitter.com/Wafuru/status/1554478430053449729

I remember when people who made wild and unfounded statements like this were considered fringe and now it's considered a real possibility.

allegro

08-02-2022, 09:40 PM

elevenism

08-03-2022, 12:37 AM

Kansas voters (remember: Kansas is a red state) just voted NOT to overturn their constitutional right to an abortion.

It’s the first time in American history that voters were given the right to decide, and RECORD numbers of voters showed up at the polls to preserve the right to choose.

That's fucking awesome, and inspiring.

But what of states that don't plan on PROVIDING a democratic choice?

THAT'S what gives me the Fear, not to mention the possibility of a Federal ban.

allegate

08-03-2022, 10:35 AM

https://twitter.com/BadPostsLLC/status/1554841471223742464

solid take.

https://twitter.com/mschlapp/status/1554799830991519749

not-so-solid take.

allegate

08-03-2022, 01:26 PM

Here’s some comparisons of county-level voting and 2020 election votes:

Rural examples:
Hamilton County:
81 percent Republican in 2020
56 percent for the anti-abortion position yesterday

Greeley County:
85 percent R in 2020
60 percent anti-abortion yesterday

Urban (Kansas City):
Wyandotte County:
65 percent Dem in 2020
74 percent for abortion rights

Johnson County:
53 percent D in 2020
68 percent for abortion rights

That doesn’t look like one side experiencing a wave or a spike in support. That reads like only a fraction of the Republican party actually supported the effort, and they were outvoted 2:1 by basically everyone else.

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/1554799223283097600

In Kansas, there was hardly a contest to speak of. The "No" coalition -- which opposed a measure that would have removed abortion rights from the state constitution -- appears to be on track to win in a landslide. And it's no low-turnout fluke. The overall vote count on the amendment eclipsed 869,000 at around 1 a.m. ET.

That figure exceeded Kansas' general election turnout in the midterm year of 2010 and was approaching the 2014 total overnight. And overall primary turnout in the state two years ago -- in the midst of a presidential campaign -- clocked in at just over 636,000. In the 2018 midterm primary, the figure was lower: 457,598.

Interest in the ballot measure also heavily outweighed the other big statewide contests on Tuesday -- more than doubling the total votes cast in the Republican gubernatorial primary, won by Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt, according to a CNN projection, with about 350,000 votes as of early Wednesday morning.

Democratic turnout was even lower -- another sign that the abortion issue transcends party lines. Fewer than 250,000 voted in the party's Senate primary and only a few thousand more punched ballots for incumbent Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly, who faces an uphill battle to win a second term.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/03/politics/kansas-abortion-amendment-analysis/index.html
the dog caught the car and is finding out he should have kept chasing it.

for now, at least.

leo3375

08-03-2022, 09:39 PM

Thank you, Kansas voters! If anyone in the Midwest needs abortion services, head to Kansas, Illinois, or Minnesota. (Wisconsin and Michigan are still trying to figure things out.)

richardp

08-03-2022, 10:04 PM

What a lot of people don't realize about Kansas anymore is that the biggest markets in the state have all gone Blue due to the very large number of young adults who attend college in the state. And at least here in KC, the young voters have done a really good job at holding everyone they know accountable to actually go out and vote. The state of Kansas is very much different now than it was when I was growing up in it in the 90s. Missouri is now the new old Kansas.

Kodiak33

08-04-2022, 11:39 AM

allegate

08-04-2022, 12:02 PM

To build on that: The Republicans just learned "don't leave it up to the people, just pass the law with no input from the public"

allegro

08-04-2022, 12:59 PM

Possible dumb question, but how is this different than the SD marijuana referendum that the governor said "Nah" and struck it down anyway?

The current Governor of Kansas is a Democrat, so that helps.

But, yeah, look at the referendum in Florida where the voters opted to allow convicted felons to vote.

And the Florida legislature said “nah, we ain’t having that” and said you first have to pay off all fines, fees and restitution AND have to fully serve your time (so, you can’t vote from jail).

https://ncpolicywatch.com/2022/05/02/florida-gave-voting-rights-to-people-with-felony-convictions-now-some-face-charges-for-voting/

Can’t have ALL THOSE minorities we locked up to keep from voting actually VOTING!!

allegro

08-04-2022, 01:07 PM

To build on that: The Republicans just learned "don't leave it up to the people, just pass the law with no input from the public"

They’ve been doing that all along, this has always been their plan. They rarely want input from the voters, unless it serves them. They claim that voters don’t really know what’s in their best interests.

Look at what happened in Michigan, when voters decided to have a non-partisan committee draw districts. All hell broke loose. The courts had to enforce it. Because what would either party do without gerrymandering?

However, Michigan also decided, via voters, to make marriage “between a man and a woman” - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Michigan_Proposal_2

Of course that was overturned by the civil rights decision of Obergefell v. Hodges. For now.

bobbie solo

08-06-2022, 03:58 AM

Indiana banned abortion today except in extreme exceptions. Goes into effect 9/15. While the Kansas news is great, it really is frustrating how the Dems let us get to this place, and now they and we are all scrambling trying to shore up things where we can.

In the meantime, please consider donating to the Brigid Alliance like I do, and make it reoccurring if you can afford to. They are going to be doing the most hands on stuff to make sure women in these backwards ass states can safely get to the states where they can abort their pregnancies as much as they want.

https://brigidalliance.org/

We get people to abortion care, whatever it takes. For many Americans, the costs and logistical challenges of getting to an abortion provider are primary barriers to access, and it’s only getting harder. We book, coordinate and pay for travel, travel expenses, and child care, serving as a single, trusted point of contact for every step of the journey. Wherever someone needs to get to abortion care in the U.S., we find a way to get them there – through direct support and in collaboration with our network of partners.

allegro

08-06-2022, 01:51 PM

Here's an article:

Illinois abortion clinics have been flooded with patients since Roe overturning; new Indiana law could mean even more (https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-abortion-clinics-flooded-patients-roe-overturning-new-indiana-law/)

Here's something that many people might not realize:

Illinois has a law that provides Medicaid coverage for abortion services. This includes temporary Medicaid coverage for VISITORS to our state.

https://www2.illinois.gov/IISNews/24885-Pritzker_Administration_Affirms_State_Coverage_of_ Abortions_in_Comprehensive_Healthcare_for_Pregnant _Women.pdf

So we Illinois residents are paying for the abortion services for people in Indiana and all those other states that have assholes as Governors and legislators that ban abortions.

And most of us are okay with that, but JUST LETTING YOU KNOW.

And, now you know why ALL OF US kept SCREAMING why it was SO IMPORTANT to ELECT A PRESIDENT who could CHOOSE SCOTUS JUSTICES.

Because we sure as FUCK can't control who voters in states elect to the House and Senate.

Because VOTERS ARE SELFISH MORONS.

I live in a SEA OF BLUE, surrounded by Pro Choice people.

But Joe Manchin? He's STILL Pro Life. It's one reason why he's elected in a sea of red in his state.

See STUPAK-PITTS AMENDMENT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupak–Pitts_Amendment) to the Affordable Care Act, 2008.

The House approved the Stupak–Pitts amendment on November 7, 2009, by a vote of 240–194.

The House was majority DEMOCRAT.

That Amendment barred the use of Federal funds in the ACA for use in obtaining abortions.

In 2008, a large group of Democrats in Congress were still heavily pro-life.

And those Democrats got there because VOTERS put them there. Not Divine Right, not Magic Fairies, not Evil Lobbyists, etc. Nope, just plain old voters in private voting booths, voting for their own personal interests and beliefs and not giving one single shit about anyone else let alone big issues like minorities or women's equality.

The ONLY things that protected a woman's right to choose for almost fifty years was Roe and Casey.

The voters took that away, not "the Democrats." VOTERS elect people to Congress; VOTERS elect people as President. VOTERS tell their Congresspeople what’s important by electing them, and replacing them. STATE elections and STATE governments are MORE IMPORTANT than any other election.

There has never, EVER been a time in the history of this country that any Federal legislation that would have provided women equal protection under the law, let alone rights to an abortion, would have passed. EVER. We are still controlled by men. We wouldn't NEED Federal abortion legislation had an Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution that clearly provides women equal protection under the law passed.

We have been DESPERATELY TRYING to get the ERA passed since the 1970s. It’s an amendment to the Constitution, so it may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.

Let RBG, one of the greatest jurists in history as well as one of the greatest women’s rights advocates, explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-y4nzjxgwA

botley

08-10-2022, 10:21 AM

Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zevd/this-is-the-data-facebook-gave-police-to-prosecute-a-teenager-for-abortion

Jinsai

08-10-2022, 10:25 AM

Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zevd/this-is-the-data-facebook-gave-police-to-prosecute-a-teenager-for-abortion

Yeah, I'm officially done with using Messenger now, and I'll never say anything remotely beyond casual shit via it ever again. I'll limit it to things like "hey, that movie was good!"
It's actually freaked me out in the past when people have sent me FB messages involving anything personal or sensitive. Like, WTF are you doing? You know they're reading all this shit right?

Well, now everyone should know.

allegro

08-10-2022, 11:18 AM

Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zevd/this-is-the-data-facebook-gave-police-to-prosecute-a-teenager-for-abortion

Messenger aside … 28 weeks?? That’s not legal in ANY state (of a healthy fetus where mom’s life isn’t in danger, that part was enshrined in ROE), let alone via fucking mifepristone and misoprostol. Why did they put it off THAT LONG??? That’s SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT. Babies are born prematurely at 7 months.

I’m pro choice, but come on people … my stepsister did this shit. Waited around to “decide” and couldn’t make up her fucking mind and then flew to WICHITA to try to get a late-term abortion. Doctors there said sorry, snooze you lose.

She gave birth to a baby and that baby is now in her 30s.

Time is of the essence, here. We must view abortion as a choice, but we must also be humane. Unless your life is in danger and the fetus is not viable, 28 weeks is FAR too fucking late to be making that decision.

I suspect the FB warrant was granted not because this was an “abortion” case but because this veered into the “homicide” category. Especially the “concealing a dead human body” portion of the charges.

If I’m spending $6 on chicken eggs that are from chickens that roamed freely on farms, and only buy cruelty-free products, and donate money to animal rights organizations, and am donating the entirety of my estate to same, then I sure as fuck am gonna follow my same principles that say that a 7-month-old fetus shouldn’t be chemically killed because her idiot mama and grandma couldn’t make up their minds for 7 whole months.

It’s likely that SOMEBODY knew she “prematurely gave birth to a stillborn child” and suspected some bullshit like maybe she murdered the baby after it was born, which happens a lot, and reported her to authorities (read the affidavit attached to the linked article) and that is how the warrant for FB messenger and her computer data was obtained for an investigation because mama and granny weren’t being cooperative. NOT that FB is reading messages and tipped off authorities. This was done prior to overturning Roe, it’s a HEINOUS case, NO chemical abortion of a fetus is recommended beyond the 1st trimester, no abortion of a healthy fetus is done ANYWHERE AT ALL IN ANY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY beyond 23 weeks, and never was. Please let’s not die on THIS fucking hill.

No, you probably shouldn’t do drug deals - or anything that could implicate you via a warrant - via cell phone or apps. That should have been known all along.

If you are in your first trimester and you want abortion drugs, and abortion is illegal in your state, you can contact organizations outside of your state. If you pay cash for a pregnancy test, nobody will know you are pregnant. Never use a debit card.

Jinsai

08-10-2022, 12:11 PM

allegro I think the more problematic part here is that Facebook is being complicit with revealing (supposedly) private information that we all foolishly trusted them to keep private. Nobody read those terms and agreements. Apparently if people actually find out the full scope of how FB is spying on you, you would not touch the platform.

I still do, out of absolute necessity, and maybe occasionally to rant or be a dork, but it's dangerous poison at this point... and them being able to blast whatever you used Messenger to say to incriminate you, I find that seriously objectionable just as a standard that we should hold to. These direct messages are, ostensibly anyway, private.

allegro

08-10-2022, 02:24 PM

and them being able to blast whatever you used Messenger to say to incriminate you, I find that seriously objectionable just as a standard that we should hold to. These direct messages are, ostensibly anyway, private.

There is tons of caselaw proving that no data (with certain exceptions, like medical and data that is sealed per court order) is private. Not cell phone data, not app chat data, not hard disk or cloud data, not printed data, not financial data, not any data.

If anybody receives a warrant in a homicide case, they are not going to risk their own financial welfare, including legal fees and costs, to protect your privacy when no case law supports that stance.

Except where data is governed specifically by data privacy laws, all bets are off. Those laws also do not apply to warrants.

Do not use Facebook's messenger app. Period. Hell, I'd go so far as to say do not use ANY app that requires the use of your actual name.

Do not ever provide your actual data (name, birthdate, etc.) on any social media site.

botley

08-10-2022, 05:44 PM

allegro

08-10-2022, 05:54 PM

This shouldn't be investigated as homicide. It's not homicide. She's seventeen. I don't know what access to healthcare is like in her part of Nebraska so I don't want to jump to conclusions about the circumstances around how they chose to terminate her pregnancy.

1) Her Mom was helping her.
2) Yes, she's 17. But, she waited until seven months of pregnancy. No state allows that. None, except where the life of the mother is at stake or the fetus is not viable. All states consider that a homicide in the U.S. at that stage of pregnancy.
3) She had up to 20 weeks to obtain a legal abortion in Nebraska, with the consent of her parent.
4) This is a homicide investigation. Emphasis on the investigation part. According to a law that’s been in place since 2010. She and her mom had friends put the fetus (perhaps baby - she said she gave birth in the shower; she may have actually murdered the baby after giving birth) in a box and had them bury it in a farm somewhere up north. The body has been exhumed and I imagine some sort of autopsy is being conducted (except she and her mom allegedly set the body on fire).

Here's a chart: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/gestational-limit-abortions/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D

28 weeks is the third trimester. That's past "viability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_v._Casey#Viability_of_the_fetus )" in every state. It was the point of viability even under Roe.

The Roe trimester framework completely forbade states from regulating abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy, permitted regulations designed to protect a woman's health in the second trimester, and permitted prohibitions on abortion during the third trimester (when the fetus becomes viable) under the justification of fetal protection, and so long as the life or health of the mother was not at risk. The plurality found that continuing advancements in medical technology had proven that a fetus could be considered viable at 23 or 24 weeks rather than at the 28 weeks previously understood by the Court in Roe. The plurality thus redrew the line of increasing state interest at viability because of increasing medical accuracy about when fetus viability takes place. Likewise, the authors of the plurality opinion felt that fetus viability was "more workable" than the trimester framework. Under this new fetus viability framework, the plurality held that at the point of viability and subsequent to viability, the state could promote its interest in the "potentiality of human life" by regulating, or possibly proscribing, abortion "except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."

Jinsai

08-10-2022, 06:51 PM

There's legal aspects of this that I feel very eager to argue about, but I'm just going to enjoy some aspects of how much the chips are finally settling into place with regards to how I have desperately wanted them to, that I'm going to refrain from commentary at this point.

I will just say that in some ways I agree with everybody for the most part.

EDIT: the above post is best understood if you read it in the voice of the witch Ursula from The Little Mermaid movie

allegro

08-10-2022, 08:01 PM

Perhaps some data will add perspective:

https://healthcare.utah.edu/womenshealth/pregnancy-birth/preterm-birth/when-is-it-safe-to-deliver.php

Health Outcomes for 28-Week Old Preemies

Survival rates for infants born at 28 weeks gestation is between 80-90 percent. Babies born at 28 weeks old only have a 10 percent chance of having long-term health problems.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01517-z

This case an extremist Republican wet dream because they assert that 28-week babies are aborted every day (not true) by baby-killing Democrats who can’t wait to kill 3rd trimester babies. Except it’s so rare, it’s why it’s being treated as homicide.

GulDukat

08-11-2022, 10:36 AM

allegro

08-11-2022, 11:06 AM

Reading the documents obtained:

Warrant for Facebook data:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22129445-view-img-19

Norfolk, Madison County, NE. This property is outside the city limits of Norfolk but still in the County of Madison.

On 04-29-22 C. Burgess and J. Burgess were taken to the scene and voluntarily showed me where the burial site of the fetus was, ot SESS Norfolk, Madison Co., NE. T. Barnhill also arrived on scene prior to the exhumation of the fetus. T. Barnhill showed us where the fetus was buried (the same spot the Burgess’ had showed us). We also leamed from T. Barnhill that J. Burgess and C. Burgess tried to burn the body of the fetus prior to it being buried. On 04-29-22 Sgt. Vrbsky and Deputy Dittbener, both of the Madison Co. Sheriff's Office, assisted at the scene and with the exhumation process. The body of a fetus that appeared to have thermal injuries to its body was exhumed in the spot the Burgess's and Bambhill had shown me.

On 04-30-22 an autopsy on the fetus was conducted. An exact cause was unknown but the lungs didn't indicate they'd ever contained any air.

Over the next days I would conduct more interviews and learn the fetus body had actually been buried 3 times at different locations (2 of the locations were at Madison County, NE)

NNN On 06-06-22 I received the final autopsy report. The report stated the cause of the was undetermined. The findings were consistent with the fetus being stillborn but the placement of the fetus into a plastic bag raise the possibility of asphyxia due to suffocation.

allegate

08-16-2022, 11:17 AM

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1559541026695544833

so not mature enough to make a decision about the pregnancy but mature enough to have the pregnancy? so fucking vile.

allegro

08-16-2022, 11:48 AM

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1559541026695544833

so not mature enough to make a decision about the pregnancy but mature enough to have the pregnancy? so fucking vile.

They should have moved her out of that shithole state Vs. using her as a case law example.

allegate

09-13-2022, 11:44 AM

https://twitter.com/RepSwalwell/status/1569707486197817344

https://twitter.com/AliceOllstein/status/1569504778438189059

ickyvicky

09-13-2022, 12:05 PM

"Pain-Capable"? That is extremely disgusting.

allegate

09-19-2022, 10:18 AM

https://twitter.com/NickKnudsenUS/status/1570454803746258944

allegate

09-26-2022, 01:42 PM

https://twitter.com/LeoShane/status/1574464920615526401

nothing bad could possibly come from this, right? /s

bobbie solo

10-02-2022, 03:32 AM

That's great news actually.

allegate

10-23-2022, 04:18 PM

https://twitter.com/Your_Americans/status/1582784390064930817

Pillfred

11-03-2022, 02:36 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dr-caitlin-bernard-lawsuit-indiana-attorney-general-abortion-10-year-old-rape-victim/

She has gotten numerous subpoenas because of consumer reports related to her involvement. It took me a minute to put it together because to me it’s so bizarre but basically she’s getting harassed because of what amounts to bad frivolous yelp reviews. I hope she wins so bad. This shit is fucking crazy.

d1stinct

11-09-2022, 05:16 PM

I'm shocked my home state (Kentucky) voted "No". I love my state, but unfortunately, we vote a lot of politicians into office that give no shits about the welfare of our citizens... and I'm not quite sure why!

allegate

01-05-2023, 07:09 PM

in actually shocking news:

South Carolina Supreme Court strikes down state abortion ban (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/south-carolina-supreme-court-strikes-down-state-abortion-ban/ar-AA160WDG?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=msedgntp&FORM=BNC001&cvid=7d65479eec5f4becb2130063e2fa266a)

The South Carolina Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a ban on abortion after cardiac activity is detected — typically around six weeks — ruling the restriction violates the state constitution's right to privacy.

allegate

03-24-2023, 04:49 PM

https://twitter.com/ask_aubry/status/1639039825977155585 (https://twitter.com/ask_aubry/status/1639039825977155585?s=46&t=wqiWhUP8EahwixpxfXgf2g)

Lol

bobbie solo

05-16-2023, 11:06 PM

NC overrides the governor's veto and institutes a 12 week abortion ban. They were only able to have a veto-proof super majority in one of the houses of legislature (I forget which) b/c some disgusting pig traitor to her own gender switched parties a few weeks ago to become a Republican. I can only imagine what they gave her behind the scenes to do so, considering she represents a district that voted heavily for Biden in 2020. The state supreme court turned to a 5-2 Republican majority back in November, and they overturned THEIR OWN PREVIOUS RULING since then to re-introduce their heavily gerrymandered maps, so don't expect much to change here unless there is a massive movement at the ballot next year (which is def. possible).

allegate

05-17-2023, 09:59 AM

France has some brilliant ideas on moving forward from this.

Jinsai

12-09-2023, 12:27 PM

so the Texas Supreme Court has blocked Mrs Cox's emergency abortion approval...

For anyone not following this, her pregnancy was diagnosed as non-viable, meaning that the child, if it should make it to term, would exist in a state of abject suffering for three or four days and then die. Ken Paxton, super dickhead and Texas AG, has said that if this woman gets an abortion, it will be an "irreparable loss" to the state of Texas. She was granted an emergency permission to get an abortion by a judge, but hey, here comes the Texas Attorney General...

Yep, this woman's life, autonomy, and physical health is being mandated (and assaulted) in order to pave the way for future Texas abortion-ban bullshit. She's not a human being to this asshole, she's a pesky speed bump, and he wants to set a precedent with enforcing this evangelical-pandering ban.
Fuck this.

Ken Paxton should be forced to adopt the child should it make it to term. He should be forced to care for it while the child suffers and inevitably dies. Afterwards, he should be forced to look the mother in the eye and explain why what he did was justified.

Fuck misogynistic control-freaks, fuck evangelicals, fuck conflating church and state, fuck Ken Paxton, and while we're at it, fuck Texas. Forget "try that in a small town," try this shit in Los Angeles. You will burn.

Jinsai

12-11-2023, 02:50 PM

So Cox has now opted to get an abortion out of state. And guess what, you muppet bigot assholes? There’s NOTHING you can do about it. How’s that for precedent? The option will always be open. Come visit California. Visit Disneyland. Get an abortion.

your ban accomplishes nothing.

cdm

12-11-2023, 03:24 PM

your ban accomplishes nothing.

In this case you're right, Ms. Cox has the means to go out of state and Paxton can do nothing but gnash his teeth. But this goes a long way to scare less fortunate women in the same situation. I agree with everything you said above above and Paxton deserves the absolute worst (and I cannot emphasize WORST enough) but the Texas ban does and will continue to put women's lives at risk, although thankfully not Cox.

Jinsai

12-11-2023, 05:03 PM

but the Texas ban does and will continue to put women's lives at risk,

That's of course true, sadly, but it also stands as encouragement to not feel bullied or intimidated in any way by a fired-up AG or local law. California will never ban abortion, and that sort of asylum will always be available. And we're not the only state. We need to see Mrs Cox safely go to another state, get a safe abortion, come back home to Texas, and have nothing happen to her. No retribution or harassment, just sit and sulk and pisssss off Paxton. I want the schadenfreude. Inject his frustration straight into my veins.

allegate

12-11-2023, 06:18 PM

You know this is going to be yet another test of the Commerce Clause, and I don't put it past this court to deny it's application here.

Further, it wouldn't surprise me if they say, much like they did with Roe, "well this also applies to those uppity rulings of the past, eventually." but then I'm being negative af right now because I'm getting sick and cranky.

GulDukat

12-11-2023, 07:27 PM