11/08/2022, The Midterms, aka build on 2020 aka The Election Thread

[Sarah K]

I actually think that Biden has the highest chance of winning - BY FAR, despite my dislike of him.

[SM Rollinger]

Sure don't. If you're feeling hopeless, go to votesaveamerica.com and sign up for notifications for when the "Adopt a District" feature goes live. This way you can do something if you feel like your current area is blue and doesn't need attention.

I live in South Dakota, it's about as red as it gets...


I actually think that Biden has the highest chance of winning - BY FAR, despite my dislike of him.

He is too soft, Trump will trounce him. Not to mention the majority of people view him as a corporate Democrat. Sanders is the only one imo who won't go easy on Trump and stands a chance of winning, especially now that the Republicans has came out and shown their true colors (party over country).

[Sarah K]

If you think the vast majority of folks who actually vote give a single shit about the cOrPoRaTe DeM talking point, I don’t think you’re very in touch with who votes. A return to the status quo is exactly what the majority of voters want. Ones that will go out and vote no matter who the nominee is, anyway. Not the ones who will throw a tantrum and refuse to vote if someone they don’t like for ambiguous reasons gets the nod.

[allegate]

2018 election results say it's somewhere in between the status quo and let's try something new and actually radical. we'll see where 2020 comes down.

[allegro]

I actually think that Biden has the highest chance of winning - BY FAR, despite my dislike of him.

I know that Twitter represents only about 2% of the voting population, but the KHive on Twitter has actively switched to Biden; ESPECIALLY if Biden continues to hint that he’d choose Kamala as his running mate. He still has a WIDE lead in SC. For Obama-lovers, and there’s a LOT of them, Biden is seen as Obama II.

Republicans are going to fuck with the Democratic primaries in open primary states, they’re saying so publicly and there’s not one thing anyone can do about it (e.g. voting for Gabbard or even Sanders, whom Hugh Hewitt says he’s voting for in the primary and then he says he’s voting for Trump in the General).

I think the BEST chance of Trump losing right now is a really or fairly respected moderate Republican jumping in as an Independent, stealing a lot of Trump votes. Maybe Justin Amash, dunno. A way for Republicans to vote, not for Trump and not for a Democrat (because many of them would rather be set on fire than vote for a Democrat).

[allegro]

2018 election results say it's somewhere in between the status quo and let's try something new and actually radical. we'll see where 2020 comes down.
To be fair: Congress is a different animal than the Presidential election. A lot of 2018 was local.

Also, what you described above is a scale of several different things. Going “back to status quo” would be “liberal” compared to sticking with current status quo.

https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-photos-babies-kids-2017-1?amp

[Deacon Blackfire]

I actually think that Biden has the highest chance of winning - BY FAR, despite my dislike of him.

I get where you're coming from but I'm far from convinced with what we've seen from him and his camp thus far. Biden would definitely do better than Buttigieg, I think, and maybe even Warren, but everything about him and his whole approach to this leaves serious doubt that he'll manage to beat Trump. He has proven to be almost Trump-level incoherent, increasingly so as the campaigning has ratcheted up, and every time he has faced any kind of serious or difficult questioning from voters he just loses his shit and usually tells them to vote for someone else - a very Clinton/Kaine style "we don't want/need your help" approach that would be foolish to emulate. I wince just imagining a debate between him and Trump, it has the potential to resemble a Spitting Image sketch. Even with Trump fatigue and everyone desperate to change things up, it's hard for me to see him as a reassuring prospect.

Because even if he is the safest choice, which I doubt, where does a Biden presidency get us, as a nation? It's sad but I have my doubts that President Biden would even see the end of immigrant children in cages, let alone manage any kind of meaningful response to the climate catastrophe. Obviously I will vote for whoever is on the Democratic ticket like I did in 2016 but my fear about a Biden candidacy is that, even if he wins, the resulting presidency effects despairingly few changes outside of not-being-Trump and the dejected and disillusioned electorate clear the way for another Republican presidency - someone who is an extension of Trump's agenda but considered more superficially palatable by the media, like Nicki Haley. Not to mention the climate crisis going full steam ahead with woefully inadequate efforts made to address it, if any at all...


A return to the status quo is exactly what the majority of voters want.

There is definitely a sizable portion of Democratic voters who just want a president and a presidency that lets them not have to worry about politics, but I think you may be overstating their numbers. Anyone who just wants Trump to go away and has no investment beyond things seeming more normal isn't just insulated from the consequences of Trump's presidency - they're insulated from the consequences of Obama's presidency as well, and the status quo that it represents isn't one that I would be so assured the majority of people want back, especially young people. They are facing environmental devastation and the potential for complete social and economic collapse, not to mention the givens of nothing being remotely affordable. It's go big or die for them, basically, and I think they and the less wealthy Americans want someone who will walk the way Obama talked more than they want someone who will return a status quo that never worked for them anyway.

[Jinsai]

no, it's not.

have to ask the question now...does anyone think Bloomberg can beat Trump? can he surge up to win the nomination? just throwing it out there- not a fan of his but wanted some opinions. ANYTHING or ANYONE to beat Trump. sadly that sounds desperate because it kinda is at this point.

anyone who carries the primaries has a great chance at beating Trump, I see Bloomberg as a long shot to take the primary, but if he did he would obliterate Trump in the general

[allegro]

leaves serious doubt that [Biden will] manage to beat Trump.

A potted plant can beat Trump. Even in a debate.


Trump made a crack about Bloomberg’s height (Bloomberg is 5’8”).

Former White House photographer Pete Souza commented on IG by posting a photo of the Trumps and the Obamas on Inauguration Day 2017, saying Obama is just under 6’2” and Trump claims to be 6’3” yet is obviously shorter than Obama. Also, it’s pretty common knowledge that Trump wears lifts in his shoes to make him appear taller.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8E1qUslDlP/?igshid=hzczw53y0xu4

Also, note that Melania Trump claims to be 5’11”.

So does Michelle Obama.

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/coton_luver/status/1223968590463787008?s=21

[binaryhermit]

Trump made a crack about Bloomberg’s height (Bloomberg is 5’8”).

Well, IIRC, average height for a man is about 5'9" so he is (slightly) below-average in that (not important) aspect.

Not surprising for a guy who bragged about the size of his penis during a Republican Presidential debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ls6JfQOmmU

And the current status of the Iowa Caucuses is a bad look.

[Wretchedest]

The idiocy and the hubris of the DNC right now is only exceeded by their irresponsibility going into facing trump.

It's unimaginable to me. Unbelievable.

[richardp]

Last night just solidified another 4 years I think.

It's fucking embarrassing.

[tony.parente]

At least Buttgag won though right?

[allegate]

https://assets.amuniversal.com/8a2b9bb024120138e2fe005056a9545d

[ickyvicky]

Just announced they should have most results by 4:00pm CT.

[chuckrh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5VXQa-aFc_E&feature=emb_logo

[allegro]

NOBODY cared about Iowa until Walter Mondale. Republicans never care about Iowa, they don’t campaign there. Caucuses are NOT primaries. It’s horse-trading, NOT voting.

This isn’t the first time this clusterfuck has happened in Iowa. Caucuses are THAT fucked up.

Iowa is a totally-white Republican State, Democrats should not waste one single fuck or carbon unit on it. Democratic candidates should make South Carolina the 1st of the primaries.

What MORON at the Iowa DNC decided to rely 100% on an APP without an adequate Plan B? There were precinct captains on hold for TWO HOURS last night, trying to report their caucus delegates by phone. Then someone hung up on them.

I’m GLAD this happened in Iowa, so that Dems will stop putting so much fucking attention on Iowa: A solid-White REPUBLICAN STATE.

Don’t even focus on New Hampshire (solid white, less people than in Chicago). Just go right to Super Tuesday.

I remember when Chris Rock was covering the Presidential primaries for Comedy Central’s “Politically Incorrect” and was in NH, and said:

“I’m having a real hard time finding hair-care products up here.” :)

[Sarah K]

I enjoy the caucus format, so I’m sad to see this!

While the conspiracy theories are funny, an app was never a good idea. Even if it had worked perfectly, who actually thought a bunch of senior midwesterners would execute the use of new, unfamiliar technology in a stressful situation well?

[allegro]

Rachel Maddow spent 30 minutes gleefully extolling the hometown virtues of the high school gym camaraderie of the caucus last night.

Sounded interesting, right up until Claire McCaskill eloquently blasted it into the stratosphere.

I could see Maddow’s point of “everyone getting along” but I’ve grown up with the idea that a vote is a vote, I don’t have a “number 2 choice” until the GENERAL election, and some of these people in the caucuses are moving around in number 3 or 4 choices. And there are no state rules, at all, to make sure it doesn’t go off the rails. If you grew up with that, I suppose that’s a tradition for you, though, so I understand.

It’s REALLY hard watching the Iowa caucuses in real time and trying to determine wtf is going on.

Weirder yet, there sure were a lot of corn-fed teen moderate Democrats on TV. I really give all those kids credit for getting so involved. When I was in college in 2007, most of the students didn’t know who the fuck the candidates were.

But, yes. AN APP??? I don’t even think the USERS were the problem. I think the app being a piece of shit and being completely overwhelmed was likely the problem. Some idiot bought a bad app is likely the issue, then they weren’t ready for a real Plan B. But, again, even without an app to blame, this HAS happened before. The good thing is that they want to be sure it’s all correct.

I am SOOOOOOO GRATEFUL that Lake County Illinois uses PAPER BALLOTS AND MAGIC MARKERS AND SCANNERS for primaries and the general.

[Jon]

This isn’t the first time this clusterfuck has happened in Iowa. Caucuses are THAT fucked up.

Iowa is a totally-white Republican State, Democrats should not waste one single fuck or carbon unit on it. Democratic candidates should make South Carolina the 1st of the primaries.

Can't argue with the white part, but the majority of my family is from Iowa, and they're completely split politically. And none of them like the same candidate. It's not as "blow out" Republican as it might seem from the outside. Can't really argue with SC being a better starting place, though.

[tony.parente]

Welp, they're starting to report.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/04/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus.html

[Deacon Blackfire]

At least Buttgag won though right?

Sick about this.

Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/us/politics/des-moines-register-polls-iowa-caucus.html), and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should (https://apnews.com/03c58d5429448bfbf78cfb76fe682d24)) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist (https://twitter.com/mhalle) being married to the CEO (https://twitter.com/taraemcg) of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (https://theintercept.com/2020/02/04/iowa-caucus-app-shadow-acronym/) (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.

[Wretchedest]

So the Democratic parties current, incomplete numbers line up with NYT's original numbers, except their partial numbers put buttigieg ahead, where NYT had Bernie at a win. Surprising

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/1224793942190780416

I usually hate these "begging for a job" twits but by god, this one is detailed.

[allegro]

Fyre Fest, Theranos, Olivia Jade, LOL.

Brilliant.

[Wretchedest]

“When a light is shining, Shadows are a constant companion,” it says. “We see ourselves as building a long-term, side-by-side ‘Shadow’ of tech infrastructure to the Democratic Party and the progressive community at large.”

Is a real, actual quote that perfectly encapsulates the lack of self awareness in the democrat establishment

[allegro]

lack of self awareness in the democrat establishment

^ That describes still using an archaic caucus (vs. primary vote) in 2020.

To accuse the Iowa caucuses of being “rigged” right out of the gate is to instill lack of trust in a system that isn’t even the same system that the vast majority of voters will be using across the country. And, it’s echoing GOP talking points about the DNC. Great job, folks. The Russians are high-fiving, “mission accomplished.” Trump will surely use these points, later.

How do the Iowa caucuses work? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/24/how-iowa-caucuses-work/)

[Wretchedest]

I don't know if I'm outright claiming it was rigged. I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy. I don't think weed is cures cancer. I don't think vaccines cause autism, I don't think flouride is a mind control drug, I don't believe in chem trails, I don't think bush did 9/11. But fuck if this one doesn't shake that skeptic out of me.

Here's the *baseline* scenario:

The DNC, victims of one of the most notorious cases of election fraud on our countries history, staked their first major election after that failure on an experimental app during an already opaque process. The app is developed by a *brand new software company," that not only is not run by software developers, but is also run by people who ran that notorious failure of a campaign and backed by *two different* candidates on the race. They choose to call this company Shadow, because none of these people have seen a spy movie and shadows are delightful I guess.

That's just how it starts. They push this app on the geriatric leaders of these caucuses and when those leaders tell them in the last few weeks that the app has problems and isn't working, they are essentially ignored. They didn't even *test* this app.

Then after at least one major publication has seemingly found a winner, the party throws up their hands and says they have to reboot the whole process and comes back with a laughably small fraction of the vote, and characterizes, even what on their terms is actually a tie, they characterize as a victory against a candidate that just about everyone of any political persuasion believes has already been docked over enough by this country.

So all of that is objectively true. It's just a matter of it this appalling stupidity was intentional or not.

[neorev]

Let's not forget the DNC also tilted the 2016 primary in one person's favor. Voter purges, workers claiming votes being changed in multiple states, voters being given wrong ballots, voters having their party affiliation changed without their approval leaving them unable to vote, all DNC donations being funneled thru Hillary's campaign, last minute rule changes that took delegates from Bernie, the media including superdelegate votes in their results before they actually even voted. The DNC was sued by donors.

[allegro]

They push this app on the geriatric leaders of these caucuses and when those leaders tell them in the last few weeks that the app has problems and isn't working, they are essentially ignored. They didn't even *test* this app.

Then after at least one major publication has seemingly found a winner, the party throws up their hands and says they have to reboot the whole process and comes back with a laughably small fraction of the vote, and characterizes, even what on their terms is actually a tie, they characterize as a victory against a candidate that just about everyone of any political persuasion believes has already been docked over enough by this country.

So all of that is objectively true. It's just a matter of it this appalling stupidity was intentional or not.

First, age of the app user had NOTHING to do with this. Many if not MOST of these app users were not geezers. The problem was simple cellular overload, which is why it was a bad idea in the first place. Voting machines have similar issues of not having been tested, etc. but they’re not a conspiracy; they’re just a typical example of a good salesperson selling some tech crap to some morons in an election board, which is an ACTUAL issue.

Second, there is no “vote,” here. These are DELEGATES. This is a CAUCUS.


Let's not forget the DNC also tilted the 2016 primary in one person's favor. Voter purges, workers claiming votes being changed in multiple states, voters being given wrong ballots, voters having their party affiliation changed without their approval leaving them unable to vote, all DNC donations being funneled thru Hillary's campaign, last minute rule changes that took delegates from Bernie, the media including superdelegate votes in their results before they actually even voted. The DNC was sued by donors.
You’re forgetting something:

The United States of America is a Republic, so each state has its own government with its own constitution and its own election, with its own election committee run by its own Secretary of State and Governor, each of which are elected by voters.

Bernie Sanders agrees to be part of the DNC system when he runs as a Democrat. He could run as an Independent. Or under the Green Party. Or as a Libertarian.

But his voters making the election seem suspicious only makes other voters not want to vote, which gives those votes to the opposition. It elects Trump. Also, it neglects to acknowledge ACTUAL problems like active racial voting discrimination that is happening everywhere. It disregards POC who are actively blocked from voting in so many ways.

[Wretchedest]

I don't think anything your suggesting relieves the DNC or the Iowa dnc of deciding to

-take an experimental step in a volatile time

-rely on inexperienced people to execute that experiment

-ignore people who told them it wasn't working


Those choice are all inconceivable to me

[allegro]

Those choice are all inconceivable to me

The Iowa Dems made this decision and, yup, they thought it was good and it was stupid. They sold the SAME app to the idiots in Nevada for their caucus! “Look! It’s so much easier than calling on the phone! You use your phone, but it’s an app and it’s CELLULAR!”

Ugh. Cell phones don’t even work at a fucking crowded concert.

But stupid does not equal grassy knoll.

Further: It really does NOT MATTER who won in Iowa. Not one fucking bit. Never did. POC have been pissed about Iowa for months.

Iowa only matters to Mayor Pete, who will be relegated to “who?” after Super Tuesday.

[Sarah K]

Oh, Iowa. I don't miss you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTQlwARreXc&feature=emb_title

[Wretchedest]

The Iowa DNC made this decision and, yup, they thought it was good and it was stupid. They sold the SAME app to the idiots in Nevada for their caucus! “Look! It’s so much easier than calling on the phone! You use your phone, but it’s an app and it’s CELLULAR!”

Ugh. Cell phones don’t even work at a fucking crowded concert.

But stupid does not equal grassy knoll.

Further: It really does NOT MATTER who won in Iowa. Not one fucking bit. Never did. POC have been pissed about Iowa for months.

Iowa only matters to Mayor Pete, who will be relegated to “who?” after Super Tuesday.

I said, in my original post, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but they sure as fuck made a long series of pretty specific choices that are going to give the people that do think a lot to chew on.

And it is so stupid it is definitely a little easier for me to understand it as intentional than to conceive it as a series of mistakes by people who's job it is to understand these things.

And let's say, hypothetically Pete does get the nomination, he's more tainted than ever.

[allegro]

Oh, Iowa. I don't miss you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTQlwARreXc&feature=emb_title

Yeah, I saw that on Twitter; like, ugh, where has that woman BEEN? Wtf. She’s just NOW learning that Pete is married to a dude, but then she’s putting all that Bible ‘splainin’ on that poor young woman who’s just trying to do her Pete Caucus job. Ugh. Props to that young woman. I’d be like “BECAUSE THE BIBLE AIN’T THE CONSTITUTION YOU CRAZY COW, I ALREADY GOT YOUR CARD, BYE BITCH!”

[allegro]

I said, in my original post, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but they sure as fuck made a long series of pretty specific choices that are going to give the people that do think a lot to chew on.

And it is so stupid it is definitely a little easier for me to understand it as intentional than to conceive it as a series of mistakes by people who's job it is to understand these things.

And let's say, hypothetically Pete does get the nomination, he's more tainted than ever.
Mayor Pete is a wine cave sleazo.

I used to like him, and I give him credit for breaking LGBTQ barriers, but he has to go.

[GulDukat]

Sick about this.

Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/us/politics/des-moines-register-polls-iowa-caucus.html), and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should (https://apnews.com/03c58d5429448bfbf78cfb76fe682d24)) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist (https://twitter.com/mhalle) being married to the CEO (https://twitter.com/taraemcg) of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (https://theintercept.com/2020/02/04/iowa-caucus-app-shadow-acronym/) (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.Buttigieg hasn't officially won Iowa, Sanders could still win, and Sanders is sure to win in NH. I'm really not concerned that Buttigieg will win the nomination if he comes in first or second in Iowa.

[ltrandazzo]

It does Bernie Sanders zero favors to keep barfing up the same arguments from 2016 and even he himself has said so when he called out Zephyr Teachout for fanning the flames with incendiary language last month about Joe Biden. The Sanders campaign has been actively trying to suppress nonsense talk like that and the same baseless conspiracy theories that were flying all over the internet last night from people about what was happening in Iowa.

A few key facts for everyone before this argument continues:

1. The DNC does NOT run state primaries - that is up to the state parties themselves.
2. The Iowa Democratic Party was responsible for the nonsense last night by not ensuring that they had taught this app to all of their caucus chairs, captains, etc. before yesterday. No one should have been downloading the app for the first time yesterday.
3. This is not the same DNC from 2016. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was the chair who was replaced by Donna Brazile before Tom Perez was elected as chair in 2017. He had two prominent opponents - Keith Ellison and Pete Buttigieg. Regurgitating the 2016 talking point about the DNC being out to get Bernie has zero merit this time around.
4. The DNC is very fucking far from perfect, but this process has been handled to the best extent that it could be given the 82 candidates running. It wasn't perfect or ideal, but the effort to try and make it that has been there.

Fucking educate yourselves on some of the simple facts and chronology out there. It's not difficult.

[Wretchedest]

Look, you guys are preaching to the choir on the way that these narratives hurt us in the long run and have hurt us in the past. I'm somewhere in this thread ranting these same things.

The people who made the decisions around this app should have considered how impactful that narrative is and the way they're playing into it. Because they cannot just ignore it and pretend it isn't important.

[Sarah K]

I think it’s important to point out that while the majority of candidates have disability platforms, zero of them have used the software accessibility failure that led to that poll not being released to highlight that universal design applies to all aspects of life, not just physical spaces.

[bobbie solo]

Last night just solidified another 4 years I think.

It's fucking embarrassing.

Nah. With the way the news cycle is, and the fact that Iowa isn't a be all/end all arbiter of anything generally, this will be forgotten and moved on from easily as long as no more screw ups like this happen. Nevada has, for example, already said they're not going to use the app. I imagine the app is DOA completely now.

Remember when they said Bernie's heart attack meant he was done? That didn't matter. This won't matter to people that aren't plugged in either. And anyone who IS plugged in already has their mind made up anyway most likely, so who cares.

[bobbie solo]

Sick about this.

Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/us/politics/des-moines-register-polls-iowa-caucus.html), and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should (https://apnews.com/03c58d5429448bfbf78cfb76fe682d24)) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist (https://twitter.com/mhalle) being married to the CEO (https://twitter.com/taraemcg) of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (https://theintercept.com/2020/02/04/iowa-caucus-app-shadow-acronym/) (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.

Buttigieg, if you trust the current polling, has zero chance after Iowa. Does not look like he will take any of the next 3 states nor much of anything on Super Tuesday. He has no base of support in any specific constituency, has no clear message, is purposefully vague about much of what he would do in office, etc. Don't worry about him.

[Deacon Blackfire]

I don't know. If Biden makes a habit of whiffing and never picks up steam (obviously far from a given but the man is, historically speaking, horrible at running for president) Buttigieg is primed to become the centrist standard-bearer, unless the KlobuCharge commences.

In regard to all the skepticism about what has been happening in Iowa getting into conspiracy theory territory, look, everyone knows what the stakes of where this is ultimately going to are. We all want to get rid of Trump and I know I'll end up voting for whoever it ends up being that's against him. But I think we can all agree this whole thing has been an unambiguous, inexcusable disaster and I think people have a right to be concerned and frustrated by what is happening without being told that just expressing those concerns and frustrations is irresponsible regurgitation of Republican or Russian propaganda.

Anyway I just checked the results and after basically half a day the Dems have released new results that move the percentage of districts reporting from 62% to...71%. So I guess we'll know who won by Friday, maybe?

[versusreality]

each day that goes by, I see Bloomberg somehow becoming the nominee. don't know why. just a feeling.

[Exocet]

this looks so bad from aboard i cant even begin, the contempt European press have for the DNC...its going to start effecting the US geopoliticaly soon.

the rot of that institution is sad its been so vital to the US for 200 years. but its become a geopolitical risk now

[Sarah K]

The DNC has nothing to do with a state caucus.

[theimage13]

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/nancy-pelosi-tears-up-donald-trump-speech.jpg

[Mantra]

I'm actually kinda shocked that Biden did as bad as he did. Wtf happened there?

[tony.parente]

I'm actually kinda shocked that Biden did as bad as he did. Wtf happened there?
He's a dork.

[cdm]

He's a dork.

"Who you callin' dork, friend?"

<pokes chest>

[Mantra]

He's a dork.
Sure, but that never stopped him from polling well. I mean, that dude was the front runner, and now he's leaving Iowa with zero delegates? Fucking ZERO? I don't like him, but I assumed he'd do better than that. What the hell happened to all his support?

[allegro]

I'm actually kinda shocked that Biden did as bad as he did. Wtf happened there?

It’s the Iowa caucus. Anything can happen. Wait until SC and Super Tuesday.

As an aside for the people poking fun at Biden’s stammering, we really do need to nip that convo in the bud because it’s poking fun at a disability.

Biden has fought a stuttering issue his whole life.

https://www.vox.com/2019/12/20/21031333/joe-biden-stuttering-sarah-sanders-democratic-debate

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/

[neorev]

We're resorting to coin tosses...

https://www.businessinsider.com/iowa-caucus-coin-flips-helped-determine-tied-votes-2020-2?fbclid=IwAR1rBjEj-Olyzznybb1f1iYwPgGZPOvqcCbkFuJTSMXkcmjs59Lwei-Pxec

[SM Rollinger]

We're resorting to coin tosses...

https://www.businessinsider.com/iowa-caucus-coin-flips-helped-determine-tied-votes-2020-2?fbclid=IwAR1rBjEj-Olyzznybb1f1iYwPgGZPOvqcCbkFuJTSMXkcmjs59Lwei-Pxec

Anything to keep Sanders from getting the nomination... SOCIALISM!! Lol

[neorev]

This coin toss is not shady at all, am I right?


https://youtu.be/O4_8RYAx4NY

[allegate]

totally normal coin toss, yes. I don't know about you but I always check to see what the coin will show before I flip it over, it's only fair!

[neorev]

Latest news, delegates of Black Hawk County that should've been Bernie's, who received 2,149 voters, 155 Country Delegates, but they were instead given to Deval Patrick who received 0 aka ZERO votes. Chris Schwartz, Black Hawk County's supervisor, had to take to Twitter to get this information out. This information was known and verified for 24 hours, but the state never fixed it. The Iowa Dems Twitter posted that there will be a correction in the new results. Schwartz offered the press to DM him.

This is the kinda shit going on in Iowa. The state is botching this up badly.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2020/02/05/iowa-democratic-party-reports-iowa-caucus-results-with-errors/4672474002/


(https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2020/02/05/iowa-democratic-party-reports-iowa-caucus-results-with-errors/4672474002/)

[neorev]

You should check out the Iowa Democrats Twitter comments, other people finding mistakes and vote swaps. It's literally taking Twitter commenters to find these mistakes. One user found multiple errors.

[ltrandazzo]

You should check out the Iowa Democrats Twitter comments, other people finding mistakes and vote swaps. It's literally taking Twitter commenters to find these mistakes. One user found multiple errors.

1225267434036264960

[ltrandazzo]

ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

/Fuck

[ltrandazzo]

I also want to flag this now - California is going to take DAYS to count all of their votes from Super Tuesday, so just be ready for that now.

[neorev]

1225267434036264960


ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

/Fuck

You are quoting some random Twitter person. Maybe you forgot the part where I clearly wrote to go to the Iowa Democrats comment section as they have been updating their results after errors were found by commenters, NOT some random woman commenting on her wall no one has heard of. I have no clue who Lulu is or what she is talking about. I'm talking about verified errors that Iowa saw and updated their results afterwards. Perhaps, you should do some better research. These are their own spreadsheets linked with clear errors on their page being pointed out. Commenters were putting up screenshots of Iowa Dem's own website with their errors where number were swapped or in the wrong columns. Not a conspiracy theory, but factual verified errors on their website.

You were so quick to wanting to shout about conspiracy theories, that you didn't do anything that I actually said in my post.

Here is the guy on Iowa Democrats comments who helped them point out a few of their mistakes...

He first spotted that Swapped Patrick's (left) and Bernie's (right) columns in the rows between WL 3-4 and WL 4-2 and switched Steyer and Warren's results for the same rows.
https://twitter.com/PhilJamesson/status/1225181352053628930

Another error WL 4-6
https://twitter.com/PhilJamesson/status/1225182376348803072

Another issue in Walnunt/Grimes/Grant...
https://twitter.com/PhilJamesson/status/1225184517171924994

His errors were verified by Iowa Democrats and updated.

Again, read the comments here, people are combing through their stats for error...
https://twitter.com/iowademocrats/status/1225177439720083462


ENOUGH WITH THE QUOTING SOME RANDOM CRAZY TWITTER PERSON THINKING YOU'RE MAKING A POINT.

/Fuck


P.S. Bernie is now closing in on Pete.

[Wretchedest]

Not conspiracy mongering, but I'm gonna triple down on the lack of self awareness by various components of the Democratic party. Anyone worth their salt in that business already knew that this narrative was going to be a thing.

Intellectually speaking, I know that, effectively Bernie and Buttigieg tied. They get the same number of delegates. Bernie may have the popular vote. Bernie could easily end up on top, being 3 points away.

But it *feels* like Buttigieg handily one. His picture adorning the thumbnails of so many media sites proclaiming his victory. Hell even the conspiracy narrative just makes it *feel* like he won.

Frustrating bit of cognitive dissonance

[ltrandazzo]

You are quoting some random Twitter person

Ben Jacobs is the reporter who was assaulted by Greg Gianforte.

[ltrandazzo]

Gross incompetence mixed with opportunism led to part of the reason why results were delayed - Trump supporters flooded the Iowa Caucus reporting phone line when the number was posted online. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/trump-fans-flooded-iowa-caucus-hotline-top-democrat-says


Supporters of President Donald Trump flooded a hotline used by Iowa precinct chairs to report Democratic caucus results after the telephone number was posted online, worsening delays in the statewide tally, a top state Democrat told party leaders on a conference call Wednesday night.

According to two participants on the call, Ken Sagar, a state Democratic central committee member, was among those answering the hotline on caucus night and said people called in and expressed support for Trump. The phone number became public after people posted photos of caucus paperwork that included the hotline number, one of the people on the call said.

Needless to say, I think we've shown here that caucuses aren't effective anymore and that Iowa shouldn't go first again next time.

[cdm]

Great to see 2020 is shaping up to be a normal one.

[sweeterthan]

Trump benefits from chaos. We’re so fucked.

[ltrandazzo]

Trump benefits from chaos. We’re so fucked.

I'm seeing a few folks posting stuff from Pelosi's primary challenger, but I think we're underestimating the gamesmanship that took place with the SOTU because Trump has lost the narrative right now between Nancy shredding her copy of his speech and Romney voting to convict.

The winner of the Dem primary is going to have to compete on this level to get the base fired up and being able to get the media to eat out of their hands.

[cdm]

Trump benefits from chaos. We’re so fucked.

Look at it this way: this was the first one. Get the clusterfuck out of the way at the beginning. This should put EVERY state on notice: tighten it up as best as you can with the funds you have at your disposal. Spend every penny of your election security budget and do it wisely. Is it too late for that? Maybe. But there isn't a state election official anywhere in the other 49 envious of Iowa.

The DNC needs to pressure caucus states to switch to typical primaries. Fuck your tradition. If you want tradition put on a festival. There is too much at stake to keep fucking around with this luddite method.

[Mantra]

Minnesota has this weird thing going on now where we've switched over to a primary format, but only for the presidential race. Everything else, like the senate races, etc, will still be done through local caucuses. I actually didn't learn about this until very recently, and I was highly annoyed.

[sweeterthan]

I'm seeing a few folks posting stuff from Pelosi's primary challenger, but I think we're underestimating the gamesmanship that took place with the SOTU because Trump has lost the narrative right now between Nancy shredding her copy of his speech and Romney voting to convict.

The winner of the Dem primary is going to have to compete on this level to get the base fired up and being able to get the media to eat out of their hands.
I’m love what Pelosi did but the other side is trying everything to give it to trump again.

Trump has the entire gop tipping towards him, doing what ever he wants. I feel like he’s gonna rig it in every way possible. There’s reports that call lines in Iowa were jammed by trump supporters are interesting. What is the point of that? Who told them to do that and what the fuck is wrong with them that they want to do it? It seems un-American and waste of time. The only person who benefits is trump.

[neorev]

Ben Jacobs is the reporter who was assaulted by Greg Gianforte.

I'm talking about this Lulu person being quoted. No clue who she is or why anyone should care what she has to say. She was debunked in very her own comments. But you shared the post like that somehow negates the real errors being found and painted the errors as simply conspiracy theory. If you cannot see the problem with that, then we are fucked. This is the kind of gloss over stuff that allows this stuff to go unnoticed. Just paint everyone as a conspiracy theorist by quoting some random loon who doesn't know what she is talking about so the real errors get ignored.

[neorev]

I'm a Democrat, but I'm sorry, Pelosi is so full of shit. She does these bullshit on screen news clip moments like clapping at Trump and ripping up his speech, but still goes ahead and hands him loads of money for war and gives him everything he wants. Then, we applaud her for ripping up some papers and call her the resistance for clapping. I also saw Pelosi stand up and applaud Trump and the bullshit going on in Venezuela. Reps and Dems love their coups.

[allegro]

Is Pelosi up for election in 2020?

[cdm]

Is Pelosi up for election in 2020?

Every House seat is up in 2020 and something like 30 Senate seats.

[neorev]

Did you see the video of Pete creepily smiling not answering questions about declaring victory in Iowa?

[neorev]

"A Pete Buttigieg adviser tweeted Wednesday the importance of getting the former South Bend, Indiana, mayor’s record in the military out to the people of Nevada, and the message looked an awful lot like he was trying to get around federal anti-coordination rules that prevent campaigns from sharing strategy and messaging with outside groups."
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e3b4a2ec5b6b70886f99afb?fbclid=IwAR0gzuJMC17Jj ag7Ml5oVGFzykxBZnbqtFyKKRSHwrqMszlZgqhvEQO5__4

[cdm]

"A Pete Buttigieg adviser tweeted Wednesday the importance of getting the former South Bend, Indiana, mayor’s record in the military out to the people of Nevada, and the message looked an awful lot like he was trying to get around federal anti-coordination rules that prevent campaigns from sharing strategy and messaging with outside groups."
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e3b4a2ec5b6b70886f99afb?fbclid=IwAR0gzuJMC17Jj ag7Ml5oVGFzykxBZnbqtFyKKRSHwrqMszlZgqhvEQO5__4

Look, Pete is junk but this criticism is really grasping at straws. The body of the article even says it's not illegal and calls the rules "murky".

[neorev]

GOP lawmaker shreds Democratic resolution on House floor
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/481911-gop-lawmaker-shreds-democratic-resolution-on-house-floor?fbclid=IwAR31hSpCYj58uZJ0V9g4J5seFuUpTVYHpsb paOuQotPNWPbUVKH0tyxxCcM

[Deacon Blackfire]

Would the adults in the room be less inclined to cry "conspiracy theory" at claims that the IDP's official numbers are wrong if the New York Times reported on the caucus results being riddled with errors? Because here's the New York Times reporting on the caucus results being riddled with errors (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/upshot/iowa-caucuses-errors-results.html). For example, as @neorev (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/members/584-neorev) already (correctly) noted, one district gave Warren's delegates to Steyer (???) and Sanders delegates to Deval Patrick (?!?!).

Now Perez has officially called for a recanvass (https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/politics/iowa-caucus-results/index.html) but reports suggest this step was taken "specifically because of issues around how the Iowa Dem Party was allocating state delegate equivalents from satellite caucus sites" (https://twitter.com/merica/status/1225477448353173506) (which Sanders dominated if early reports are to be believed) - Buttigieg's campaign is claiming "the party (had) not followed rules set out by the delegate selection plan" (https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1225494446206279686) and gave Sanders too many SDEs. This mess is far from over. Frankly I hope the press and random people from Twitter keep scrutinizing these results because without them it's hard to say that the IDP wouldn't have stood behind the incorrect results. And look, I get that Sanders has a fervid, extremely paranoid online following that can be really obnoxious but that doesn't make hand-waving dismissals of their legitimate concerns okay.


each day that goes by, I see Bloomberg somehow becoming the nominee. don't know why. just a feeling.

I've come to feel like this is a way bigger, more probable threat than any other in this primary season. With so many candidates, the possibility of none of the candidates reaching the delegate threshold before the convention is far from unlikely and Bloomberg is absolutely in this to steal the nomination there. If Sanders enters the convention as the front-runner but without the delegates needed to clinch the nomination, it's very likely the Democrats rally around Bloomberg as their emergency exit. It would basically guarantee a depressed voter turnout in November and Trump's reelection but at this point I really feel like some of the most influential people in the Democratic party would rather lose with Bloomberg and blame the left for not voting for him than potentially win with Sanders. I don't see them going that scorched-earth if it ends up being Warren, but all bets are off if it's Sanders.

[cdm]

...but that doesn't make hand-waving dismissals of their legitimate concerns okay.

No one is dismissing the concerns. The concerns are legitimate because the state has botched the count due to a mix of carelessness, incompetence, and technical failures.

What isn't legitimate are the cries that the process is rigged against one candidate or another. The claims are unfounded and nothing more than pissing and moaning because the results aren't what they'd hoped. If (royal) you truly believe it's fixed ask yourself this: how the fuck could the DNC, a committee that does not run the state caucus, conspire against a specific candidate by way of a state committee that can't even count ballots correctly without anyone blowing the whistle? No part of that passes the smell test.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Agreed, the DNC didn't run the Iowa mess, and while there are questionable ties between IDP officials and Acronym / Shadow Inc, there is no evidence of intentional rigging. Still a lot of questions here that need answers, though, and whatever the results end up being, Buttigieg declaring victory with 0% reporting was slimy as fuck, a pretty overt attempt to commandeer the momentum out of Iowa, and I hope it taints his campaign in the long run.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/TomZohar/status/1225248247729410048

:lol

[cdm]

Buttigieg declaring victory with 0% reporting was slimy as fuck, a pretty overt attempt to commandeer the momentum out of Iowa, and I hope it taints his campaign in the long run.

You’re not wrong that it’s a slimy look but let’s face it, all candidates angle and maneuver trying to get out in front of a story or guide the narrative. He tried to control the news cycle and the orgs let him do it. To me that looked like a candidate overconfident in what his ground team was telling mission control while not expecting a days-long delay in reporting. Gross, yes, but I don’t buy nefarious.

[cdm]

Not to belabor the point but another question for all the tin foil hats: if you are going to rig a primary why would you pick a caucus: the most transparent method of casting your vote? Everyone in that room knows who voted for who, maybe not by name but they’d know if there were a discrepancy between the numbers announced in the room and the numbers reported. How would anyone expect to get away with that without conspiring with literally every official in the room? How would the candidate reps not notice? It makes literally no sense, even before you consider it’s the lone event opening a primary season.

[neorev]

Not to belabor the point but another question for all the tin foil hats: if you are going to rig a primary why would you pick a caucus: the most transparent method of casting your vote? Everyone in that room knows who voted for who, maybe not by name but they’d know if there were a discrepancy between the numbers announced in the room and the numbers reported. How would anyone expect to get away with that without conspiring with literally every official in the room? How would the candidate reps not notice? It makes literally no sense, even before you consider it’s the lone event opening a primary season.

It's more about ruining the momentum Bernie would have gotten. All the news does is tell us how Bernie cannot win, yet here we are. If all went smoothly and Bernie was able to celebrate an Iowa win normally, it would be a big moment for him and for voters taking him seriously. Now the press is more focused on the mess than saying how well Bernie did. Many people think Pete won it flat out, which will give him a boost in other caucuses. It was a load bullshit for him to celebrate victory with 0% of the vote in. And now, by the time we get the full results, people won't care anymore. And even if Bernie wins it, many think Pete won it. Why? Because he said it on the news for all to hear/see. Anything to keep Bernie's name and his success out of the public eye. They pulled this kind of crap during 2016, when the news would rather show an empty Trump podium for an hour than show Bernie talk. Sadly, for a good chunk of the population, the mainstream news is where they get their news from. All it does is demonize Bernie and shrugs away any success he has.

Luckily, Iowa is working on in Bernie's favor.

Majority of Democratic Voters 'More Likely' to Vote for Bernie Sanders After Iowa Caucuses: New Poll

https://www.newsweek.com/majority-democratic-voters-more-likely-vote-bernie-sanders-after-iowa-caucuses-new-poll-1486148?fbclid=IwAR3J5pYCbGN7rbWooxeZHcNY2M4XjO9Tv UZbEo-h1xtU8qezBl8vMKIqpG4

[cdm]

What momentum? He’s a human hair away from a literal tie in Iowa, the exact same place he’d be in had everything gone smoothly. Did Pete get a days worth of tire-pumping? Yeah sure, but it’s not as if he didn’t turn out the voters. Don’t get me wrong here: Pete is not in my top five but this constant victimhood complex with Bernie supporters is really fucking tiresome.

Also this:
1225570178827767808 (https://twitter.com/lemieuxlgm/status/1225570178827767808?s=21)

[allegro]

I’d like to add some relative historical perspective from the 1968 Democratic primary:

https://youtu.be/pR6BiqrSYq8

[neorev]

What momentum? He’s a human hair away from a literal tie in Iowa, the exact same place he’d be in had everything gone smoothly. Did Pete get a days worth of tire-pumping? Yeah sure, but it’s not as if he didn’t turn out the voters. Don’t get me wrong here: Pete is not in my top five but this constant victimhood complex with Bernie supporters is really fucking tiresome.

Also this:
1225570178827767808 (https://twitter.com/lemieuxlgm/status/1225570178827767808?s=21)

It is not victimhood, it is common sense. The numbers coming out on time and Bernie possibly outright winning Iowa and it being all over the news will be a huge boost for him outside his core followers. The momentum going from Iowa to future caucuses. A win in Iowa legitimizes Bernie even more in the public eye, especially those who haven't decided who they're voting for yet. It is known that there are voters out there who vote for the person they see is winning in the news. It's all about the optics. By the time the complete results for Iowa come in, even if Bernie wins, no one is gonna care anymore. His chance to celebrate is gone. It's about reaching more voters. The only ones paying attention right now are those who actually care about the candidate. The lackadaisical voter has moved on to the next crap the MSM is shoving down their throats. Either way, by the time the results come in, most have moved on.

During Iowa, I had to watch Chris Matthews babble on like a whino about he hates the whole field and "Bernie cannot win." Seriously, you don't see how the media paints Bernie on a daily basis? You don't think it's done on purpose? Bernie is the one thing that Fox News, CNN, and NBC unite against.

[neorev]

Apparently 100% results in...

Pete 564.012
Bernie 562.497

In the end, they look to be getting 11 delegates each. More importantly, Bernie beat him by 6,000 in popular vote.

At the same time, this story from 2 hours ago on NBC says there are still multiple errors...

"The Decision Desk said it identified at least 77 precincts, or 4.5 percent, where the total votes for what is known as "reallocated candidate preference" is greater than the total votes for "initial candidate preference" — a difference that makes no sense."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/nbc-news-review-iowa-caucus-vote-finds-potential-errors-inconsistencies-n1132011

[cdm]

The numbers coming out on time and Bernie possibly outright winning Iowa and it being all over the news will be a huge boost for him outside his core followers.

Except he didn't win outright...they tied. Ask President Hillary how much the popular vote means when you're in the business of collecting delegates.

Pete will see a jump from Biden voters defecting after his abysmal Iowa numbers but he's polling terribly (rightly so) in a lot of upcoming states so any 'momentum' will be short lived. Bernie will be fine going forward.

[allegate]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84710344_2675525042717196_4422647778832809984_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=3n5aqtDEz-gAX85s6J7&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=cc892d514e4697fcce7e5ffc60f67983&oe=5EC272B7

[Swykk]

This is super helpful, Hillary. Unity and what not, amirite? These centrists are so frightened by what their party is becoming. It’s weird that she’s not criticizing Warren’s similar policy plans.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-ellen-moon/index.html

[allegate]

Much as they need to stop interviewing Republican goons, they need to stop interviewing her.

[allegro]

This is super helpful, Hillary. Unity and what not, amirite? These centrists are so frightened by what their party is becoming. It’s weird that she’s not criticizing Warren’s similar policy plans.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-ellen-moon/index.html
They don’t like Bernie because he’s not a Democrat when he’s not running for President, and neither are a lot of his voters.

The problem with that is that a lot of voters are Independents.

I’m not a Democrat, I’m an Independent.

Sure, Dems can’t specifically target Independents but, Jesus Christ, don’t OSTRACIZE them. You NEED them.

[neorev]

They don’t like Bernie because he’s not a Democrat when he’s not running for President, and neither are a lot of his voters.

The problem with that is that a lot of voters are Independents.

I’m not a Democrat, I’m an Independent.

Sure, Dems can’t specifically target Independents but, Jesus Christ, don’t OSTRACIZE them. You NEED them.

"Nearly four-in-ten U.S. adults (38%) identify as politically independent, but most “lean” toward one of the two major parties. Only 7% of Americans overall don’t express a partisan leaning, while 13% lean toward the Republican Party and 17% lean toward the Democratic Party."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/15/facts-about-us-political-independents/

Fuck yea, they need em.

Another little thing,
I have met a few of what you would call "classic Republicans," not the crazy ones, who would vote for Bernie over Trump. Back in 2016, if Bernie was the nominee, they even said that they would've voted for him, but they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary. Hillary was chasing Republicans back in 2016, yet it seems it was Bernie who would've gotten their vote.

[allegro]

Some classic Republicans told me they’d vote for Biden. So there’s that, too.

Unsettling New Theory: There is No Swing Voter (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944)

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1225905782434205702

could he lose the military vote?

[allegate]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP-KOxMXsAAqvw5?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[allegate]

An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944)

[allegro]

An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944)

Yeah, I posted that above, I totally agree with her about VOTER TURNOUT deciding elections.

Debate last night, I think Sanders and Klobuchar did really well. Yang got in a few really good points. Buttigieg got in one really good point about Afghanistan. Biden didn’t do well, he’s looking more and more tired and not in total control of his thoughts. Steyer, bleh. Warren never (or rarely) looks up from her notes at other candidates, whereas the others seem to engage with the others. A few (more than just Warren) want to codify Roe, which sounds nice but won’t happen (states rights plus not likely enough support in Congress, yet).

[allegate]

Yeah, I posted that above, I totally agree with her about VOTER TURNOUT deciding elections.

Debate last night, I think Sanders and Klobuchar did really well. Yang got in a few really good points. Buttigieg got in one really good point about Afghanistan. Biden didn’t do well, he’s looking more and more tired and not in total control of his thoughts. Steyer, bleh. Warren never (or rarely) looks up from her notes at other candidates, whereas the others seem to engage with the others. A few (more than just Warren) want to codify Roe, which sounds nice but won’t happen (states rights plus not likely enough support in Congress, yet).

huh. with the same title even. :lol

my bad.

[neorev]

https://twitter.com/CPDAction/status/1225630654404186112?s=19

[theimage13]

@allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) for President

edit: or Congress. Or Senate. Or SCOTUS.

[allegro]

@allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) for President

edit: or Congress. Or Senate. Or SCOTUS.

Lol thanks. SCOTUS would cost me about another $150K in student loans and then double that much, at least, in greased palms. I’d be dead, first.

[Jinsai]

new criticism of Buttigeg is coming from Sanders supporters, and it gets weird.

I don't fucking care I just want no more president Trump. So right now, fuck you Sanders. Your supporters are offputting.

[allegro]

I get stanning for your own candidate. Cool cool.

But being REALLY mean trolling in the Twitter and IG accounts of the other candidates and their supporters, so people have to switch their Twitter accounts to Private overnight so that opposition trolls don’t completely trash their Twitter timelines?

That’s right out the Trump MAGA playbook.

[cdm]

That’s right out the Trump MAGA playbook.

Bingo. It’s disgusting.

[neorev]

https://youtu.be/1nYJNbcwbko

[allegro]

Look, THAT isn’t even his good anti-Pete stuff. That’s petty stuff against some poor dumb volunteer.

Here’s some actual substance:

https://twitter.com/statuscoup/status/1225902087738929154?s=21

[theimage13]

Lol thanks. SCOTUS would cost me about another $150K in student loans and then double that much, at least, in greased palms. I’d be dead, first.

I'll start the GoFundMe. The fact that you're even worried about the greased palms aspect tells me you're the right person for the job.

[Jinsai]

SNL nailed this re: Bernie Bros

[cdm]

I think there are a lot of good Sanders supporters, who believe he can bring change, or they like his policy proposals and/or his foreign policy ideas (the President is heavily involved in negotiating foreign policy and trade policy).

There are and I hope the majority support the eventual nominee, Bernie or not. But the ultra-vocal "Bernie or burn it down" portion of his following is selfish and abhorrent.

[allegro]

There are and I hope the majority support the eventual nominee, Bernie or not. But the ultra-vocal "Bernie or burn it down" portion of his following is selfish and abhorrent.

The latter confuse me. I just saw one on Twitter that I immediately suspected was a Russian bot until I looked at her feed and saw that she wasn’t, and that she’s just ... stupid. She was going on about how they were gonna BURN DOWN THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM ... while campaigning for a guy who’s using the two-party system. Okay, Karen.

Blocked.

[cdm]

The latter confuse me. I just saw one on Twitter that I immediately suspected was a Russian bot...

I think it's a mix: A. those still feeling aggrieved from the way things shook out in 2016, B. fakes / bots planting seeds of discontent, and C. naive idiots easily influenced by A and B. What percentage of each?..no idea.

[DF118]

Do you guys think Donald Trump is going to win another 4 years?

I do.

Fuck, he's such a cunt.

[neorev]

Mike Bloomberg tried to bury leaked audio of him being a racist prick who believes in racial profiling...


https://youtu.be/ewd8kQAnykY

[cdm]

Mike Bloomberg tried to bury leaked audio of him being a racist prick who believes in racial profiling...

I'm not giving them any ad revenue but based on the title of this...I think it's really funny they think they're breaking news when we have years and years of evidence that Bloomberg thought racial profiling was just policy. He admitted and 'apologized' for it because his strategists and managers told him he had to not because he had some epiphany.

[tony.parente]

If donnys "grab em by the pussy" and making fun of that disabled guy didn't stop him from being electable this racist shit isn't going to do anything to bloomberg.

[allegate]

:lol

I'm laughing because of how fractured the democrats are for candidates vs. how lock step the republicans are behind Trump.

[theimage13]

If donnys "grab em by the pussy" and making fun of that disabled guy didn't stop him from being electable this racist shit isn't going to do anything to bloomberg.

I'd like to remind you that Al Franken resigned after ALLEGATIONS of sexual misconduct, while any Republican with a proven history of assault is still welcomed by the party.

Allegations of misdoings can absolutely sink a Democratic candidate. I'm not saying it *will* (I haven't even listened because I honestly don't care; I doubt he'll get the nod and if he does he's getting my vote over Trump). But to think that Democrats and Republicans are held to the same moral standards is hilariously misguided.

[cdm]

I think it has more to do with the fact that we already know who Bloomberg is. This shouldn't shock anyone.

[allegro]

I'd like to remind you that Al Franken resigned after ALLEGATIONS of sexual misconduct, while any Republican with a proven history of assault is still welcomed by the party.

Allegations of misdoings can absolutely sink a Democratic candidate. I'm not saying it *will* (I haven't even listened because I honestly don't care; I doubt he'll get the nod and if he does he's getting my vote over Trump). But to think that Democrats and Republicans are held to the same moral standards is hilariously misguided.
Democrats hold themselves and others to this higher moral standard.

Republicans claim to be the party of morals, but they actually have none.

Perhaps Democrats need to ease up on strict purity tests, lest they hand the Presidency to the most evil prick of them all.

I think part of the issue, for many Democratic voters, is that any Democratic candidate has really big shoes to fill when compared to President Obama. I still see people CRY when Obama appears anywhere. This is likely, at least partly, due to who’s in the office, now, in comparison.

[neorev]

Voters concerned after Nevada Democratic Party hires former Buttigieg campaign staffer as its new Voter Protection Director.

You would think after the connections between Pete and the app behind the clusterfuck in Iowa that they would care about the optics of this. Emily Goldman worked as an organizer for Pete from October 2019 until February 2020, where she then became Voter Protection Director of the Nevada State Democratic Party in February 2020. After this was discovered, she locked her Twitter account and scrubbed her employment history from LinkedIn.

https://news3lv.com/news/local/voters-concerned-after-nevada-democratic-party-hires-buttigieg-staffer

P.S. Troy Price, the chair of the Iowa Democratic Party and another one who brought us the clusterfuck that is the Iowa caucus, was a Senior Advisor for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

[theimage13]

Yang has dropped out. (Not gonna bother with specific articles; everyone is covering it.)

[bobbie solo]

Bernie won. Again. Get into it.

[Wolfkiller]

If you want Trump gone but you're attacking Bernie, you're a lying dog faced pony soldier.

[bobbie solo]

If you want Trump gone but you're attacking Bernie, you're a lying dog faced pony soldier.

Look Jack, that's not how me & ol' Cornpop did things at the sock hop in the good ole days!

[neorev]

Bernie!

[Wolfkiller]

Look Jack, that's not how me & ol' Cornpop did things at the sock hop in the good ole days!

Listen, Fat. We can settle this malarkey with a pushup contest!

[tony.parente]

Listen, Fat. We can settle this malarkey with a pushup contest!

Why don't you fuck off you dogfaced bitch, wanna go out and fist fight like real americans?

[sweeterthan]

tone it down and get back on topic.

[Wolfkiller]

Guys get back on ETS tone police approved topics, like bashing Bernie supporters exclusively by perpetuating mainstream media "Bernie Bros" smear narratives.

[tony.parente]

Guys get back on ETS tone police approved topics, like bashing Bernie supporters exclusively by perpetuating mainstream media "Bernie Bros" smear narratives.

You guys KNOW this is a Warren or Clinton candidate only board.

[sweeterthan]

I must be missing the deeper meaning behind breaking into name calling and insults. Why is that necessary to the discussion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Swykk]

They’re doing Biden bits. It’s not real fighting.

[tony.parente]

I must be missing the deeper meaning behind breaking into name calling and insults. Why is that necessary to the discussion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/us/politics/joe-biden-push-ups.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/10/joe-biden-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/3/20991841/joe-biden-no-malarkey

[sweeterthan]

Thanks for the links. It still seems like drift to me, especially with out context. As long as you guys aren’t using the board to be ugly to each other, tho. Carry on.

[neorev]

Chris Matthews and NBC are trying hard to make it like Bernie didn't win...
https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1227453085808762880?s=19

[Swykk]

Guys get back on ETS tone police approved topics, like bashing Bernie supporters exclusively by perpetuating mainstream media "Bernie Bros" smear narratives.

A tad bit too far but I have noticed an uptick in this. It’s disappointing.

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

I bet Yang endorses Sanders.

I’m dumbstruck as to how Buttigieg hopped the line. Shouldn’t Warren and Biden be far ahead of him? He’s such a slimeball. Was it Shadow? I don’t know. I really don’t.

[tony.parente]

A tad bit too far but I have noticed an uptake in this. It’s disappointing.

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

I bet Yang endorses Sanders.

I’m dumbstruck as to how Buttigieg hopped the line. Shouldn’t Warren and Biden be far ahead of him? He’s such a slimeball. Was it Shadow? I don’t know. I really don’t.
I don't want Warren to drop out. I want a head to head Sanders/Warren fight for the nomination so we can pretty much guarantee a win in November. We need Biden g - o - n - e.

[Swykk]

The best way to stomp out Biden is for Sanders and Warren to unite, though.

[tony.parente]

The best way to stomp out Biden is for Sanders and Warren to unite, though.
Or to distract him with nice smelling hair.

[Wolfkiller]

Sanders and Warren would have been great until she turned heel and pulled a top ten anime betrayals on him.

[Swykk]

I didn’t see that as a heel turn on her part but much more of a miscommunication between friends that the media, who do actually hate Sanders, hopped on, twisted and amplified. He was saying America is unlikely to elect a woman (taking into account boomers, MAGA chuds, sexist people in general and of course, the worst people—libertarians). Is it sad and wrong that many Americans feel that way? Fuck yes. Are the media shitty for this behavior and for helping normalize Trump’s increasingly criminal and fascist actions? YES. 100%.
Days later, Sanders and Warren seemed to figure it out so that’s good.

[neorev]

They had no plans to correct Iowa as internal e-mails said they will not correct tally sheets.

Correcting the math on erroneous caucus worksheets is not allowed because it would introduce “personal opinion” into the official record of results, the Iowa Democratic Party lawyer says.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/us/politics/iowa-caucuses-democrats.html#click=https://t.co/PlaCdkO6ZA

They're literally doing this shit in people's face. And it's amazing how these mistakes seem to go in a certain direction.
But wait, Russia.

[cdm]

They're literally doing this shit in people's face. And it's amazing how these mistakes seem to go in a certain direction.
But wait, Russia.

You're trying really hard to push this as a conspiracy but until there is actual evidence that something nefarious is up this is nothing more than a state committee left completely unprepared with no Plan B when Plan A went to shit.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Interesting how the media outlets that can't stop hand-wringing about the need for Sanders-supporters to fall in line if a more centrist candidate gets the nomination literally never tell centrist Democrats that they need to do the same if Sanders gets the nomination. Bernie-Or-Bust-ing (in 2016 and now) is framed as tantamount to supporting fascism and yet you know, you know, that they're going to New York Times the shit out of voters reluctant to support Sanders even against Trump, so yeah I'm looking forward to seeing the people who think Susan Sarandon is more to blame for President Trump than Clinton/Kaine and the DNC write about how voters who can't commit to voting for Sanders against Trump just have 'grave concerns about socialism' or some horseshit like that.

I'm not surprised to see Sanders supporters trying to get the Warren people on their side - if their places were reversed, Warren supporters would absolutely be doing the same thing. A fairly (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/sanders-warren-wfp/) common (https://splinternews.com/a-contested-convention-would-be-a-crazy-nightmare-1838739936) talking point (http://inthesetimes.com/article/22244/warren-sanders-cooperation-primary) before these contests was that, between the two, whoever is doing worse after the first few states / before Super Tuesday should drop out and endorse the other to consolidate the progressive wing behind the strongest candidate. And yet Warren's campaign is now trying to downplay these early contests and is intimating that they are in for a long primary battle past Super Tuesday. I'm not here to debate anyone's preference of candidate, but let's be clear-eyed here - things look very bad for her campaign. New Hampshire is one of her neighboring states, which should be an advantage (to the extent that Sanders' victory there has been dismissed by some outlets because it's one of his neighboring states), and she came in fourth, below Klobuchar and neck-and-neck with Biden, who barely even bothered with the state because he knew it'd be such a disaster. It's true that we're only two states in but she needs to turn things around fast to stay viable and gain any momentum, and I don't see that happening in much more diverse Nevada and South Carolina. Sanders has seemed to be the clear (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/03/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus-polls.html) favorite (https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/state/new-hampshire?xid=ec_crm_nh_d) of the non-Caucasian electorate thus far (EDIT: granted Iowa and New Hampshire are largely white as hell but again, this illustrates how intentionally reductive the white Bernie Bro smear and the media's talking points RE Sanders are) and I just do not see her performing well in these states, certainly not well enough to electroshock her campaign into life.

Like I said, we're only two states in. But if she stays in this too long with results like these, and Sanders really is the 2nd choice of most Warren supporters, at a certain point all she will be doing is stopping Sanders and helping Buttigieg. Recently I've seen Warren supporters argue that she is the best candidate because she cares more about seeing her policies implemented than getting elected president to do it. If that's true, then she will drop out and endorse Sanders if her campaign continues to flounder. Otherwise her part in this contest will end up looking a lot more like this (https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1227454981344808960).

[neorev]

You're trying really hard to push this as a conspiracy but until there is actual evidence that something nefarious is up this is nothing more than a state committee left completely unprepared with no Plan B when Plan A went to shit.

Hard to push? LOL, it is as clear as day. On top of the conflicts of interests and mistakes always falling in one direction and just blatant fuckery.

First the Des Moines poll being held up for the first time ever, then Iowa.

Troy Price was on TV just ahead of the Iowa caucus gloating about how prepared they were for it and there will be no problems, meanwhile for at least a week or more, he clearly knew of the problems with the app as many people reached out to him in regards to the issues with it.

On top of that, if there are clear errors with tallies, why would the Iowa Democrats not fix them? This excuse about influencing the public record is such a load of horseshit.

I've been paying attention to the primaries closely, both in 2016 and 2020. There are so many red flags.

The DNC changing debate rules out of nowhere for Bloomberg.

First, they tried Kamala, she failed.
Then, Biden... failing
Then, Warren... failing

Now, Bloomberg. Their back up plan in case Buttigeig fails. I honestly do not understand how anyone supports Pete. He's like an algorithm in a suit. The Democratic party is trying everything they can to make sure Bernie loses. That includes blatant cheating.

Jesus, just watch NBC. They literally said multiple times that Bernie lost New Hampshire. Keep downplaying Bernie and confusing the public to sway voters. The media's bias is so blatant. Chris Matthews blabbering about being executed in Central Park. You'd think you were watching Alex Jones. And NBC is supposed to be the voice of the left LOL.

I'm sorry, but all this BS about Russia messing with our elections, all evidence points to that you should be more worried about your own parties doing so.

[ltrandazzo]

Troy Price, the Iowa Dem Chairman is stepping down after the chaos in Iowa.

[neorev]

Troy Price, the Iowa Dem Chairman is stepping down after the chaos in Iowa.

Him and Tom Perez should go.

Jeez, I remember during the 2016 primary, Debbie Wasserman Schultz was on TV calling Democratic the grassroots party. Then, when people started question superdelegates and what was going on, she was on TV saying superdelegates were there to stop grassroots movements from the hijacking the party. These two statements happened within the span of a few months from each other.

[cdm]

Sorry but it all smacks of over-confidence and incompetence followed by the worst case scenario. Forgive me for wanting something more concrete than well documented errors (so well documented randos on Twitter were catching mistakes, as you were pointing out) and a bunch of bumblefucks with no contingency plan if the untested app failed.

As for Price saying they were ready...what’s he supposed to say?? “Fuck no we’re not ready” would have played real well. I’m not by any means absolving him of fault, he clearly fucked up here, but his comments leading up to the caucus day are all he could say. He gambled on the app working and lost big. He took responsibility and stepped down. If there was something sinister / criminal I’d love to see it uncovered and whoever responsible should be prosecuted. No such evidence has been uncovered as far as I’m aware.

[neorev]

In New Hampshire, Bernie got more young voters than everybody else combined...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/12/21134454/new-hampshire-primary-results-sanders-young-voters?fbclid=IwAR0we3sNPIxPf0piXOjUXpPOXJg3iqX5iQ mYeWI6psa6Dye9cSP2Qghlm5Y

[neorev]

Sorry but it all smacks of over-confidence and incompetence followed by the worst case scenario. Forgive me for wanting something more concrete than well documented errors (so well documented randos on Twitter were catching mistakes, as you were pointing out) and a bunch of bumblefucks with no contingency plan if the untested app failed.

As for Price saying they were ready...what’s he supposed to say?? “Fuck no we’re not ready” would have played real well. I’m not by any means absolving him of fault, he clearly fucked up here, but his comments leading up to the caucus day are all he could say. He gambled on the app working and lost big. He took responsibility and stepped down. If there was something sinister / criminal I’d love to see it uncovered and whoever responsible should be prosecuted. No such evidence has been uncovered as far as I’m aware.

Local officials knew of the problems with the app going back a week before the caucus and they did nothing about it. They asked state officials to fix it. They were referred to some dedicated staffer who couldn't do anything to help. They had so many complaints, the local officials told them to just call it in. You're telling me a week's notice after multiple complaints was not enough time to figure something out or scrap the app altogether. Hell, they had years to get this right. They never tested the app beforehand, they knew of the problems long beforehand, and let it happen anyway.

Then, for them to go through tallies and even if they did find errors, they wouldn't change them because they're now public record. So that means, anyone can come along and can write whatever numbers they wanted and nothing can be done about it cuz it was entered as public record.

After all the nonsense with Russia and how we need to protect our elections. Four years of Dems shoving down our throats that Russia influenced and hacked out election. You'd think we'd be a bit more prepared than this.

[bobbie solo]

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

It's still very early & I suppose things can turn around for a bigger name candidate like Warren, but most likely she is done. Same goes for Biden. Those dismal showings in the first two state just kills any momentum they were hoping to latch onto for Nevada, SC & Super Tuesday. Only non-winners with momentum right now are CloudBootJar & Buttigieg. But Amy apparently is really really low on $ & had barely any staff on the ground in those upcoming states, so we'll see if she makes any headway.

Warren's little speech going after Bernie today was a bummer to hear:


https://youtu.be/QdqXTwiJy_s?t=121

start above at 2:01.

On the surface, you might watch that & think it means she has no intention of endorsing Bernie. That's true for now sadly. I was hoping in my perfect little world she would perhaps drop out before Super Tuesday & endorse Bernie, but this seems to dictate otherwise. But she'll come around eventually if he's still at or near the top. Hillary & Obama ran a VICIOUS campaign against each other in 2008:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667

Yet Hillary eventually endorses her opponent, they buried the hatchet & she went on to do the only thing I kind of liked in her political career...Secretary of State. Same thing could happen here. Bernie's people even looked into whether Warren could serve as both VP & Sec. of Treasury if he won the presidency:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/the-sanders-campaign-looked-into-whether-warren-could-serve-as-vice-president-and-treasury-secretary-at-the-same-time-according-to-report/ar-BBZ5yRu

[bobbie solo]

Him and Tom Perez should go.

If it makes you feel any better, if Bernie wins the presidency (or maybe it's earlier, like when you're even just the nominee? Not sure) he will have the ability to mold the DNC how he sees fit, and you can bet Perez and all the other Obama/Clinton-ites below him will be excised. #1 person to be removed after Perez, for me, is Barney Frank.

[versusreality]

I read somewhere that historically, whoever wins both Iowa and New Hampshire becomes the eventual nominee. so, right now that means Bernie's on track. for some reason the media isn't covering this fact, but would rather talk about who came in 3rd and 4th place.

[ltrandazzo]

I read somewhere that historically, whoever wins both Iowa and New Hampshire becomes the eventual nominee. so, right now that means Bernie's on track. for some reason the media isn't covering this fact, but would rather talk about who came in 3rd and 4th place.

Whoever finishes in the top two, which is a juiced fact considering that 2016 was essentially a two-person race. And if you're counting delegates and considering that it's the leader instead, then we're looking at President Pete since he has a one-delegate lead over Bernie right now.

[ltrandazzo]

If it makes you feel any better, if Bernie wins the presidency (or maybe it's earlier, like when you're even just the nominee? Not sure) he will have the ability to mold the DNC how he sees fit, and you can bet Perez and all the other Obama/Clinton-ites below him will be excised. #1 person to be removed after Perez, for me, is Barney Frank.

Commence the circular firing squad? I think Perez could be doing better in some regards but we all demonize the DNC without remembering that they exist as the fundraising arm of the party and are outnumbered by all of the state parties. That's a separate aspect of politics that we don't see play out but only hear about second hand and, man, I'd expect that they're more ruthless than what we see in the news.

Here's a point to remember as we're getting fired up for our faves - we need the supporters of their opponents. Bernie's, Liz's, Pete's, Amy's, Joe's, etc. supporters alone won't be enough to get them elected to president. Now, good news for Bernie in NH - 9 out of 10 Pete supporters said they'd support the eventual nominee while 3 out of 4 of Bernie's said they'd support the eventual nominee. You've got to work on consolidating that support. Andrew Yang's supporters were practically split on if they'd support the Dem or vote for Trump (in some cases, vote for Trump AGAIN), so his endorsement is going to be highly sought after.

We're also just two states in with 48 left. As Biden said, 99.9% of Latinx and African-American voters have not voted yet in this primary so we're getting results from pretty white places. Now, I think his expectation of how much of that percentage he thinks he's gonna get versus the reality of that might be off, but the overall point stands. We'll have a more indicative idea of where the country as a whole is at in this Dem primary after Super Tuesday on March 3rd. I have Ohio on March 17th, so we'll see what it looks like then, but here's my mindset heading to the poll right now -

1. Warren
2. Sanders
3. Klobuchar

[cdm]

On the surface, you might watch that & think it means she has no intention of endorsing Bernie. That's true for now sadly. I was hoping in my perfect little world she would perhaps drop out before Super Tuesday & endorse Bernie, but this seems to dictate otherwise. But she'll come around eventually if he's still at or near the top. Hillary & Obama ran a VICIOUS campaign against each other in 2008:

........

Yet Hillary eventually endorses her opponent, they buried the hatchet & she went on to do the only thing I kind of liked in her political career...Secretary of State. Same thing could happen here. Bernie's people even looked into whether Warren could serve as both VP & Sec. of Treasury if he won the presidency:

Exactly this. She will endorse. It's still early and she has to play to win but when the chips are down she will endorse Bernie. Honestly I think all of them will with the exception of Tulsi.

[ltrandazzo]

I'll make one other point - without the superdelegates weighing in until the convention, there is a possibility that no one will have enough pledged delegates entering the convention in July. No one, including Warren and Biden should be thinking about dropping out right now unless they have substantial money problems, poor organization, or any combination of those plus just absolutely dismal results in other primaries.

Make no mistake - I think Bernie is the frontrunner and the path to him being the nominee is solidifying, but anyone speaking like it's a 100% certainty has no idea what's going to happen next. We should exercise that same caution and work on what we can in our personal circles to increase turnout both now and in November.

[tony.parente]

I'll make one other point - without the superdelegates weighing in until the convention, there is a possibility that no one will have enough pledged delegates entering the convention in July. No one, including Warren and Biden should be thinking about dropping out right now unless they have substantial money problems, poor organization, or any combination of those plus just absolutely dismal results in other primaries.

Make no mistake - I think Bernie is the frontrunner and the path to him being the nominee is solidifying, but anyone speaking like it's a 100% certainty has no idea what's going to happen next. We should exercise that same caution and work on what we can in our personal circles to increase turnout both now and in November.
It's weird, this is the first election I can remember where I haven't absolutely LOATHED a single mainstream democratic candidate in the running for president. Joe is fuckin weird but I don't hate the guy, and buttgag has room for improvement but he's not horrific either. I'm actually super excited with whoever we end up with in november, I don't see a single loser getting the nomination even if the primaries were rigged like last time. Only the difference here is we don't have any fucking losers on the bill like last time (clinton).

[allegate]

Exactly this. She will endorse. It's still early and she has to play to win but when the chips are down she will endorse Bernie. Honestly I think all of them will with the exception of Tulsi.
I don't know what to believe anymore. Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

[ltrandazzo]

I don't know what to believe anymore. Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

Are we talking about Hillary?

[cdm]

Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

If nothing else she knows the alternative and we can't take 4 more years of it.

[allegate]

Are we talking about Hillary?
good point, I lost track of what pronouns were talking about which person. yes, I believe Hillary will continue to go against Bernie even when it's clear he's the front runner, or even the actual nominee.

[tony.parente]

good point, I lost track of what pronouns were talking about which person. yes, I believe Hillary will continue to go against Bernie even when it's clear he's the front runner, or even the actual nominee.
That's because she's still mad shes possibly the worst democratic nominee for president in the last 20 years.

[neorev]

Personally, the only candidate I see having a chance at beating Trump is Bernie. I just try to imagine these candidates going up against Trump on stage. As much of a dumpster fire Trump is, he'll just make Joe look like the senile guy, Pete like the inexperienced manchild, and Warren as Pocahontas. Even if I like these people, I just try to picture what they will look like on stage going up against Trump. Bernie seems to be the only one who can fight him on facts and his record. But that's just me.

I do loathe one candidate... Bloomberg.

[allegro]

It's weird, this is the first election I can remember where I haven't absolutely LOATHED a single mainstream democratic candidate in the running for president.

I'm in the same boat, I don't dislike any of them in the front right now. I'm SO undecided, I'm really torn, I told my husband that I have this gut desire to skip the Primary vote on March 17th and just go with whomever everybody else wants for the General. I dunno, I'll see who's left by mid-March because we vote early.

I really believe that ANY of these Democratic candidates can beat Trump. ANY. I believe the electrified animated corpse of Lincoln can beat Trump, so long as Democrats get up and vote (and said Lincoln corpse runs as a Democrat).

I'm worried about the Presidency, but I'm kind of surprised that nobody in this thread is talking about the Senate race. Without the Dems taking the Senate, NOTHING a Democratic President attempts will happen. Nothing. It'd be even WORSE if the Dems can't keep the House.

Because of the Republican Senate and Trump, Trump has installed (and the Republican Senate majority has confirmed) 187 judges to the federal bench (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/one-in-every-four-circuit-court-judges-is-now-a-trump-appointee/2019/12/21/d6fa1e98-2336-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html). That's 1 in 4 U.S. Circuit Court judges. And nearly all of them are REALLY young, too. It's a lifetime job. And, of course, they're all crazy conservative.

[theimage13]

I believe that ANY of these Democratic candidates can beat Trump. ANY.

I believe the electrified animated corpse of Lincoln can beat Trump, so long as Democrats get up and vote.

This is the part that scares me. It sure *feels* like people are more charged up and ready to vote. But...well, "we" won by 3,000,000 last time and still didn't get a candidate in office. Three MILLION more votes, and it was still a pretty spectacular loss from an electoral perspective, which is sadly the only one that really matters - for now, at least. So color me extremely nervous. I agree that any of these candidates CAN win. But I thought that in 2016 too, and look where we are now.

On a similar note, this (https://www.wtvr.com/news/virginia-politics/house-passes-bill-giving-states-electoral-votes-to-popular-vote-winner) is a small but encouraging step. It still means nothing because there aren't enough states on board.......yet. But if more join in, this could become a huge and much needed change.

[allegro]

This is the part that scares me. It sure *feels* like people are more charged up and ready to vote. But...well, "we" won by 3,000,000 last time and still didn't get a candidate in office. Three MILLION more votes, and it was still a pretty spectacular loss from an electoral perspective, which is sadly the only one that really matters - for now, at least. So color me extremely nervous. I agree that any of these candidates CAN win. But I thought that in 2016 too, and look where we are now.
Democrats were 70,000 short in three states for the Electoral College vote. A LOT of that was due to racial voter suppression in Detroit and Milwaukee. But, had a lot more voters shown up, the landslide that had occurred in prior votes would had more than made up for the difference.

In prior races where the Democratic candidates lost, the same evidence of lack of voters is the same; with the Gore loss, with the Kerry loss; there are simply WAY WAY WAY MORE registered Democrats than Republicans. When registered Democrats don't show up, Republicans win. It's simple math.

Many pundits have pointed to "why?" and think that it's due to black vote (Obama received landslide black voter turnout, Bill Clinton garnered pretty huge black voter turnout) and that black and hispanic votes are the backbone of the Democratic vote (that part is true).

53% of white women voters voted for Trump in 2016.
94% of black women voters voted for Clinton in 2016.

But blaming lack of black voters isn't simple math (and makes ZERO sense) because they only make up about 12% of the entire American population, let alone the Democratic vote.

So, it comes down to white people and I think reliance on what Democratic voters "assumed" the outcome would be. I think, in 2016, Dems just didn't think it was POSSIBLE that Trump could win. So, they sat home and let all those "other" voters vote and figured the TV guy would lose. Then, he didn't.

There is no "sure thing" with anyone.

[theimage13]

I know that suppression was a big issue. But what has been done about it since then? I feel like if anything, the current administration has actually been enabling states to continue to use shady tactics (gerrymandering being a big issue, but things like purging voter rolls being another). Have there actually been strides made in cities like Detroit and Milwaukee to encourage and enable certain demographics to get out and vote? Or is the deck still stacked against them?

[allegro]

I know that suppression was a big issue. But what has been done about it since then? I feel like if anything, the current administration has actually been enabling states to continue to use shady tactics (gerrymandering being a big issue, but things like purging voter rolls being another). Have there actually been strides made in cities like Detroit and Milwaukee to encourage and enable certain demographics to get out and vote? Or is the deck still stacked against them?

You know that saying, "fool me once...?"

Minority organizations are empowering themselves and addressing these situations in advance, they've been doing that for the last 2.5 years. They're addressing these voter ID situations, or lack of polling places, in advance; Stacey Abrams has spent the last two years addressing this issue in Georgia.

Gerrymandering doesn't affecting Presidential or Senate races.

Michigan is already foreseeing problems, mostly due to the forecast of a HUGE voter turnout. (https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/14/michigan-voter-turnout-2020-election-results-delayed/4460065002/)

The VRA will have to be completely reinstated by Congress if the Democrats get control of Congress, again.

The Milwaukee problem was due to a new Voter ID law (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/wisconsin-throws-major-voter-registration-hurdle).

[Jinsai]

I'm just constantly frustrated, for all the ways we herald the right to vote, there's so many fucking impediments into seeing it go into action. Part of me doesn't blame people who live in solid states from avoiding registration just so they don't have to worry about jury duty.

Just to clarify, I am a registered voter, it's just goddamn it...

[allegro]

I'm just constantly frustrated, for all the ways we herald the right to vote, there's so many fucking impediments into seeing it go into action. Part of me doesn't blame people who live in solid states from avoiding registration just so they don't have to worry about jury duty.

Just to clarify, I am a registered voter, it's just goddamn it...
Here in Illinois, having a DRIVER’S LICENSE puts you into the jury duty pool.

I just checked, and that’s true in California, too.

You can’t get out of jury duty, dude. They’re now using state TAX RECORDS, too.

My Mom’s elderly neighbor swore he couldn’t vote because he had a felony conviction over 65 years ago when he was a teenager and got into a fight. Except that’s bullshit, only current prisoners or people currently in a halfway house can’t vote in Illinois. I told him that, then he says he still didn’t want to vote because it just seems like it’s such a hassle. Wtf.

[Swykk]

Okay, now I’m getting pissed and I’ve been trying hard to be calmer about all this. If this is proved true and this is pretty fucking close, Perez needs to resign.

https://news.yahoo.com/shadow-inc-idp-contract-dnc-documents-224407455.html

[allegro]

Thing is, the APP didn’t really cause as much trouble as the idiots in charge of the Iowa caucus who PUBLISHED THE FUCKING HOTLINE NUMBER so it was EASILY OBTAINABLE VIA GOOGLE and was TOTALLY INUNDATED BY 4CHAN USERS (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/clog-lines-iowa-caucus-hotline-posted-online-encouragement-disrupt-results-n1131521).

Oh, and the volunteers were told not to bring their smartphones to the polls so they couldn’t use those to help access! So they were all passing around one fucking iPad.

Also, the USERS in Iowa can barely handle email let alone this mess (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/02/the-iowa-caucuses-were-a-comedy-of-tech-errors-and-poor-planning/).

Electronic voting OF ANY KIND is going to be THE worst rigged nightmare of 2020:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/midterms-2018/midterms-elections-video-voting-machine-malfunction-indiana-democrat-republican-a8621101.html

[Swykk]

It was obviously a shit show for a variety of reasons.

[allegro]

It all pales in comparison to what Trump has done to Joe Biden’s campaign, what he did to Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and what Trump WILL do to the campaign of anyone he sees as a threat. He will spread lies and deception just to plant a seed of doubt. He’ll even get foreign assistance. And now the GOP is supporting him in doing it. Whomever Trump faces in the general election will face scandal, whether it’s real or not, because Trump and his henchmen fight dirty. They’re mobsters. They’re on 4chan. They’re in Russia. They’re cockroaches. It’s going to take billions and LOTS of tech to counteract it.

[neorev]

Bloomberg would pay $3 billion less under his wealth tax than under Sanders plan
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bloomberg-wealth-tax-compare-sanders-buttigieg-warren-biden/?fbclid=IwAR2OsItG0wmb4V7T_-hxMC98QcKtNvpPdGzFovKoLaPgTGCXB1k9QZQDlsg

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/ajjaffe/status/1228072536849764352?s=21

[Sarah K]

^ I love that shit. Wonder how long it will take the mob to light him up for WALKING BACK ON MEDICARE FOR ALL because someone who has an actual understanding of the policy implementation process talks about it realistically.

Oh wait.

[Swykk]

So we can’t have nice things like M4A because evil greedy people in Congress wont allow it? How exactly are they (AOC and Sanders) walking it back? She even says “worst case scenario.” How is this a negative mark on Sanders? I want a president that fights for the good of the people (not the rich). Shouldn’t everyone?

You “love that shit?” Really? That’s kinda sad.

[Sarah K]

The point is that the mob constantly attacks Warren for her plan (not idea) to implement it in a way that is based in reality since, you know, she actually understands how the process works.

[Swykk]

Okay, that makes more sense but it’s important to note she’s not the only one with a plan. Implying Sanders doesn’t know how the process works isn’t a fair assessment. That said, I hope Warren bounces back. It’s been a rough go lately and again, I have no idea how Mayor Pete jumped ahead of her. That makes no sense to me.

[ickyvicky]

Bloomberg has fielded nearly 40 sexual harassment and discrimination lawsuits

https://www.gq.com/story/bloomberg-sexism

[neorev]

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio Plans to Endorse Bernie Sanders
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/us/politics/bill-de-blasio-bernie-sanders-endorsement.html?fbclid=IwAR27AK-u66tcki2sqLaMYWHvtDM6vLbw4xmELFmrMwidtecv-OYwM8q9F4E

Top economist says US capitalism needs a Bernie Sanders...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/democrats-sanders-capitalism-1.5460890?fbclid=IwAR1fbLH1XraMjY1i5CH4uArZAJVnV8Z cNrrA63xko-3DAeXiZBIPjLHwpP4

[SM Rollinger]

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio Plans to Endorse Bernie Sanders
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/us/politics/bill-de-blasio-bernie-sanders-endorsement.html?fbclid=IwAR27AK-u66tcki2sqLaMYWHvtDM6vLbw4xmELFmrMwidtecv-OYwM8q9F4E

Top economist says US capitalism needs a Bernie Sanders...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/democrats-sanders-capitalism-1.5460890?fbclid=IwAR1fbLH1XraMjY1i5CH4uArZAJVnV8Z cNrrA63xko-3DAeXiZBIPjLHwpP4

Feel the BERN!!!

https://i.imgur.com/QGcYFSN.jpg

[neorev]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/iQvXYiMFk4XAXMGiAplBIQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTUxOS4xMTExMTExMT ExMTEx/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/R4_VKtLN_Yd1bV5y0EWwRg--~B/aD03MzA7dz05MDA7c209MTthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-02/e1909b70-4f50-11ea-8f3f-8fa3c2558158

New Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows Sanders's strength going head-to-head with rivals
https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-news-you-gov-poll-shows-sanderss-strength-going-head-to-head-with-rivals-181522968.html

[tony.parente]

Bloomberg wants Hillary as his running mate.

L O L (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007521/Mike-Bloomberg-wants-Hillary-Clinton-running-mate-say-sources.html)

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/bloomberg-weinstein-736x529.jpg

[ltrandazzo]

The Daily Mail is about as reliable as a piece of toilet paper staying dry with rain pouring on it. They print whatever the hell they want without any fact checking to back it up.

[tony.parente]

The Daily Mail is about as reliable as a piece of toilet paper staying dry with rain pouring on it. They print whatever the hell they want without any fact checking to back it up.
To be honest it would fill me with glee if the report was true. Can’t be more establishment than Bloomberg and Hillary, they would be destroyed in the race and no WAY they would get the nomination.

[Demogorgon]

It was first reported by Drudge Report, picked up by Fox and Daily Mail from there, for whatever that's worth.

[theimage13]

they would be destroyed in the race and no WAY they would get the nomination.

Except there usually isn't an announcement about running mates until after the primaries, so it would have no impact on the race (assuming you mean the Democratic race) outside of whatever speculation and rumors people decide to buy into.

[Wretchedest]

Bloomberg is a republican.

[allegate]

I can't wait until the republican who used to be a democrat faces off against the democrat who used to be a republican.

[Sarah K]

Also lots of rumbling that he wants Abrams.

[Jinsai]

Bloomberg pretty much is a republican, but hey, maybe that's why I know Republicans who want to vote for him over Trump.

I don't like Bloomberg, but I'll vote for him if he wins the primary. I would vote for someone way less qualified. Doesn't mean I want him or think he'd be the best choice, but there's an argument to be made that he has a unique advantage over his rivals there in his cross-aisle appeal. Republicans LIKE him, and liberals SHOULD vote for him IF he wins the primary. We can't prattle about if we just don't get our ideal candidate... if Trump is re-elected, this will get SO much worse.

[allegro]

Bloomberg's charitable money, analyzed:

* Environment and Climate Change: $278.2 Million

* Community Development: $210.2 Million

* Education: $239.3 Million

* Health and Safety: $1.4 Billion

* Culture and Arts: $281.5 Million

Since 1997, he has donated nearly $9.5 billion.

He founded and funds Everytown Gun Safety (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everytown_for_Gun_Safety).

There's not a lot in that says "Republican."

(Source (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/15/us/politics/michael-bloomberg-spending.html))

His motto is: "In God we trust. Everyone else, bring data."

See Hawkfish (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/23/mike-bloomberg-campaign-uses-tech-firm-he-founded-earlier-this-year.html).


Hawkfish will be the “primary digital agency and technology services provider for the campaign,” Julie Wood, a Bloomberg campaign spokeswoman, told CNBC. She added that the firm “is now providing digital ad services, including content creation, ad placement and analytics” for their campaign. It will also help Democratic races across the country in future election cycles, she said.

[Sarah K]

He's legit evil and terrorized black and brown communities in NYC, tearing apart an entire generation of families. Not even sure what I would do if that nightmare scenario ended up coming true. Bleh.

[allegate]

I wish I could embed mp4s.

https://i.imgur.com/HRZiYrI.mp4

[allegro]

He's legit evil and terrorized black and brown communities in NYC, tearing apart an entire generation of families.
So did Mayor Richard J Daley in Chicago, who was a Democrat. Chicago STILL hasn’t recovered or changed from Daley’s redlining or segregation or police brutality.

My original point was directed toward Jinsai calling Bloomberg a Republican, even though Bloomberg’s track record isn’t one that is necessarily “Republican.”

Both Democrat and Republican urban Mayors did (and do) that kind of shit.

But there are reports, now, that black voters are thinking strategically and that they primarily want to get Trump out of office; that they’re looking at which candidate has the best chance at outspending and out-strategizing Trump, and if they decide that Bloomberg is their choice, I’ll support that. They have the most at risk, here. I’ll listen to them. Whichever candidate they support.

However, as I said earlier (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/5099-11-3-2020-President-Senate-House-LOCAL?p=483410#post483410), I’m up nights worried about the Senate race.

[allegro]

I’m still so depressed about what happened to Elizabeth Warren’s campaign.

[theimage13]

I’m still so depressed about what happened to Elizabeth Warren’s campaign.

If Sanders gets the nod, I hope they at least discuss the possibility of a joint ticket. Let's be realistic here: the man has already had a heart attack. Yes, he appears to be in good health now. But the presidency ages you - hard. I will 100% be voting for him if he's the candidate, but it would be the first time that I've legitimately been interested in who the VP is in case they need to assume the presidency.

Yes, part of me knows that losing her as Senator Warren would potentially be a bad thing. But if Sanders is on the ballot - and especially if we want him to STAY in 2024 - I think it'll really help his chances if he's got a running mate with name recognition.

Alternately...I'd be game for eight years of Sanders followed by eight years of Warren. One can dream, right? Alas, she'll be pushing 80 in '28. I think '24 is probably the latest she could feasibly run, and even then I doubt she'll be able to convince enough people to pick her over a younger male candidate. Which pains me to say, but that's the world we live in.

[allegro]

If Sanders gets the nod, I hope they at least discuss the possibility of a joint ticket. L
I think the better strategic bet for any ultimate Democratic candidate would be a POC as a VP. Especially a WOC.

[versusreality]

^ agree. I see Bernie going with Abrams if he's the nom.

[theimage13]

I think the better strategic bet for any ultimate Democratic candidate would be a POC as a VP. Especially a WOC.

Works for me! I'd be happy to see it, especially if it's a WOC (and let's be honest, I can't envision Sanders picking someone unqualified for the job, so I'm pretty sure I'd be on board with whoever he chooses if it comes to that).

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1229903570977337344

[neorev]

I’m still so depressed about what happened to Elizabeth Warren’s campaign.

I don't know about VP, but I do hope she is on his cabinet. I also would love to see Yang be a part of his team.

[neorev]

Double digits, motherfuckers!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-wsj-poll-sanders-opens-double-digit-national-lead-n1138191?fbclid=IwAR2zPVIWFe_ozw-0I_Fq-sbi4oCLE5pNYhoxN-9VtwT1ahe2roLsgNoaQZQ

[Jinsai]

the failure of the Iowa caucus has been the best thing... Fuck Iowa, why do we care so much, and that should be the point across the board to anything that doesn't represent the popular vote

[allegro]

the failure of the Iowa caucus has been the best thing... Fuck Iowa, why do we care so much, and that should be the point across the board to anything that doesn't represent the popular vote

Thank you! Iowa and NH are two of the smallest (and whitest) states in the country. The population of NH is less than Chicago. No offense to the people of Iowa, but Iowa and NH shouldn’t be deciding candidates for the rest of the country.

[allegro]

This aspect of Pete Buttigieg is one I do really like:

https://youtu.be/SxtvXaRe2lg

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/damonbethea1/status/1229974458045288449?s=21

[Exocet]

Bernie is 58 percent ahead of his closest rival amongst Hispanics in Nevada.

jawdropping numbers. Why on earth anyone is taking bloomberg seriously is beyond me, he would have to resort to a level of corruption that would do the US too much damage internally and externally . the DNC would if they could but i dont think they can here.

Trump won by 50.000 votes in country of 330 million, it was not like Brexit which won by few million.

some people like Tim Pool and Sargon of Akkad and StyxHexandHammer have been saying that Trump will win i dont see it at all.....

[Sarah K]

https://twitter.com/damonbethea1/status/1229974458045288449?s=21


Even better is this - where they don't include the candidate in third place in the head to head polling. A++++ Methodology.

1229888539489456128

And no, it isn't just an omission in the tweet. She was not included in the actual survey.

[Sarah K]

Warren is fed the fuck up. Lmaoooooo

1230314923034652673

[cdm]

The knives are out lets goooooooooooooo

[tony.parente]

Aaahaha fuuuuuuccccccckkkk Bloomberg. 10/10

[allegro]

Bloomberg is going down in flames, and Warren and Biden sprayed lighter fluid all over him.

Whoa! That was good stuff.


I am really sick with an upper respiratory virus, and I had to hit pause and rewind a few times because I was coughing. But this is one of the BEST debates so far!!!

[cdm]

I see a lot of pearl clutching on the twitters about how this in-fighting is bad and blah blah blah. Bullshit. This is long overdue. The attacks are of substance on real issues and real policy proposals, or lack thereof. It’s exposing a lot of weaknesses and forcing feet to fire.

[Sarah K]

A better link... omg.

1230321983574958085

[allegro]

The entire clip. Best television EVAR

https://youtu.be/xaq0PBbhsaQ

[allegro]

LOL LOL LOL LOVE!

https://twitter.com/curtismharris/status/1230318196605030400?s=21

[ltrandazzo]

... And that's why she's still my number one. Goddamn, she came for everyone.

[theimage13]

LOL LOL LOL LOVE!

https://twitter.com/curtismharris/status/1230318196605030400?s=21

https://www.facebook.com/TheProfessorIsIn/photos/a.751411938238689/2837292672983928/?type=3&theater

Link highlighting my favorite reply to that comment.

[allegro]

... And that's why she's still my number one. Goddamn, she came for everyone.

I sent her more money last night. I ain’t giving up.

[cdm]

I sent her more money last night. I ain’t giving up.

Apparently she raised [at least] $2.5 million last night.

[Sarah K]

I also donated again during the debate. She had her biggest fundraising day ever.

[Magnetic]

Best quote from Buzzfeed: "For someone who hates socialism, Bloomberg sure loves getting publicly owned." :D

[allegro]

People on Twitter are bitching that last night’s debate was more like a “reality show” than showing how the Democrats can “beat Donald Trump.”

First, they ALL claim they can beat Trump. The proof will be how many votes they can get from the “Big Tent” range of Democrat and Independent voters.

Second, last night was marketing, not strategy. And it was brilliant political theater. Compared to the SNOOZE FEST field of 2016 (Remember Lincoln Chafee? Jim Webb? Martin O’Malley?)

https://twitter.com/zachjourno/status/1230350984074989568?s=21

[Aladdinsanity]

It was great and all, but everyone outside of Bernie agreeing to let superdelegates swing the nomination (regardless of the lead in pledged votes and delegates) undid whatever wind was put in my sails after Bloomberg was ethered.

[allegro]

It was great and all, but everyone outside of Bernie agreeing to let superdelegates swing the nomination (regardless of the lead in pledged votes and delegates) undid whatever wind was put in my sails after Bloomberg was ethered.

All candidates know the DNC rules going into this, when they decide to run as a Democrat.

And a brokered convention is one of those boogeymen that people throw around (Republicans spread it around as an option to get rid of Trump in 2016) but it never actually happens. Meghan McCain is insisting there will be a brokered Democratic convention, but she’s a total drama queen.

Sure, it’s POSSIBLE. It’s ALWAYS “possible.” But making that possibility out to be “unfair” is like hijacking a plane and then bitching that the plane doesn’t have premium vodka and isn’t going to your destination.

I think Bloomberg is gonna fizzle.

[Sarah K]

Warren camp is now reporting they've brought in over $5 million since the start of the debate.

[Jinsai]

(Remember Lincoln Chafee? Jim Webb? Martin O’Malley?)

Honestly? no

[Aladdinsanity]

But Bernie knew the DNC rules going into this, when he opted to run as a Democrat. They all do.

And a brokered convention is one of those boogeymen that people throw around (Republicans spread it around as an option to get rid of Trump in 2016) but it never actually happens. Meghan McCain is insisting there will be a brokered convention, but she’s a total drama queen.

Sure, it’s POSSIBLE. It’s ALWAYS “possible.” But making that possibility out to be “unfair” is like hijacking a plane and then bitching that the plane doesn’t have premium vodka and isn’t going to your destination.

We are a Republic, but we are also a party system and the candidates are obligated to operate under the rules of that party, or they are welcome to run as Independents or under another party. Or, start their own party.

True. But fuck, man, I don't know... the DNC really screwed the pooch letting Bloomberg buy his way into the primary this late and suddenly changing the guidelines to allow him on the debate stage last night. Between that and the disaster of the Iowa caucus, the Democratic party is on really shaky ground right now when it comes to their voters' trust.

[Sarah K]

I remember O'Malley because of that strong Daddy energy, but not anything he ever said or did. Don't have any recollection of the other two. Would have to Google.

[allegro]

True. But fuck, man, I don't know... the DNC really screwed the pooch letting Bloomberg buy his way into the primary this late and suddenly changing the guidelines to allow him on the debate stage last night. Between that and the disaster of the Iowa caucus, the Democratic party is on really shaky ground right now when it comes to their voters' trust.

But that rule-change in Nevada fucked ALL the other candidates; they’re all pissed about it.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/1/21118038/2020-democratic-candidates-debate-rules-sanders-warren-biden-bloomberg

I think the DNC is just trying to appeal to a wide variety. It’s party politics. The DNC also wants money for its OTHER (non-Presidential) candidates.

Bloomberg pumped millions of dollars into 2018 Democratic candidates and will likely do the same in 2020 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/politics/michael-bloomberg-democrats-donate.html), and the DNC doesn’t want to stem that flow of money that helps Dem candidates in local races all over the country.

It shouldn’t all be about money, but it is. And until meaningful campaign finance reform legislation is passed, it won’t change.

Voters should be a LOT more concerned about the possibility that their vote won’t be hacked by foreign adversaries or the opposing party, or tha POC will be prevented from voting through voter suppression.

[allegro]

Honestly? no

https://time.com/4156243/democratic-debate-top-social-moments/

[theimage13]

I suppose this is more "2016 election", but that thread is long gone.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/483890-facebook-exec-in-2016-warned-taking-down-misinformation-would

tl;dr - Facebook's own staff said in 2016 that they didn't want to take down propaganda because most of it was geared towards helping conservatives and it would be unfair to pull it.

[cdm]

This the most galaxy brain rationale I’ve ever fucking heard...and it’s been a monumentally stupid couple of years so that’s saying something.

[allegro]

I have this fantasy where Bloomberg:

* Buys all Trump loans, then calls them in,

* Buys Facebook and Twitter and shuts them down,

* Buys Fox News and turns it into a 24-hour gangster rap and Tejano music video station.

[Magtig]

It was great and all, but everyone outside of Bernie agreeing to let superdelegates swing the nomination (regardless of the lead in pledged votes and delegates) undid whatever wind was put in my sails after Bloomberg was ethered.

I'm very pro-Bernie, but in 2016 he said roughly the opposite.

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination

EDIT:

I have this fantasy where Bloomberg:

* Buys all Trump loans, then calls them in,

* Buys Facebook and Twitter and shuts them down,

* Buys Fox News and turns it into a 24-hour gangster rap and Tejano music video station.
People might start liking Daddy Warbucks if he did this shit. It's hard to think about the $400 million he's already spent and not imagine what incredible good it could have done. The guy is ridiculously out of touch.

[neorev]

BERNIE SANDERS LEADS IN ALL 10 NATIONAL POLLS RELEASED THIS WEEK AHEAD OF NEVADA CAUCUSES
https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-leads-all-10-national-polls-released-this-week-ahead-nevada-caucuses-1488141?fbclid=IwAR3H-l7itpVtOiDgZ3BIsQE7TBtSQN0YQgb-8h_sueZLb9Qi9WWcgZtl8vE

Rivals worry Sanders building 'insurmountable' Super Tuesday lead
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483944-rivals-worry-sanders-building-insurmountable-super-tuesday-lead?fbclid=IwAR1Q00drgGoAHZvvGYaYUb3KBaKZCq_Ws7kt sHNyAhad3MG2rlMPodf3kI0

[allegro]

I completely ignore ANYTHING on The Hill.

The Hill is 100% Right Wing propaganda crapola.

[Deacon Blackfire]

I have this fantasy where Bloomberg:

* Buys all Trump loans, then calls them in,

* Buys Facebook and Twitter and shuts them down,

* Buys Fox News and turns it into a 24-hour gangster rap and Tejano music video station.

Bloomberg spends more on one week of advertising for his stupid, self-indulgent campaign than the vast majority of human beings will ever possess in their lifetime. I know you're just having fun and I don't mean this as a personal attack but it would be great if we not do this gross "what if he was OUR billionaire?!" bullshit. It is useless and frustrating to contemplate the staggering amount of good people as wealthy as him could accomplish if they gave even a fraction of a shit about everyone else.

Yes, like all people with obscene and frankly immoral quantities of money, he has put some of his wealth towards things that are not horrible, or even good. This means nothing. As staggering as amounts he donates may seem to us, they amount to pocket change for him, and not only are most of these charitable ventures tax deductible - they also earn him unearned respect and praise from citizens and media outlets, who look at him giving a minuscule fraction of his wealth and think, "Wow, what a generous, good-hearted man!" It's a smokescreen, a common one for the disgustingly rich, to distract from the obvious. He directly targeted and terrorized communities of color in New York City for a decade. He endorsed President Bush. He helped Republicans keep control of the Senate. He has said taxing the wealthy is a bigger problem than income inequality (https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-bloomberg-once-said-taking-from-the-rich-was-a-bigger-problem-than-income-inequality). He's a fucking Republican.

That there is even a chance of him being the Democratic Presidential candidate illustrates the profound limits of "Vote Blue No Matter Who" and how the Democratic party has continually leveraged our desperation against us. Instead of rising to the occasion of the legitimate threat of fascism brewing, they endeavor instead to use our yearning for something, ANYTHING else but Trump to push through someone almost identical to a Republican - in Bloomberg's case, a literal Republican - who will almost certainly lose, and if they don't lose, they play the usual Democrat dance of effecting so little positive change that voters end up convinced that Republicans will somehow be better in four years.

Four years of Trump and the Democratic party is still most concerned with protecting itself.

Anyone hoping that a brokered convention will be their candidate's ticket to the nomination, take heed - that would be Bloomberg's dream scenario (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/bloomberg-brokered-convention-strategy-116407). Frankly any major snafu in Milwaukee would be very ill-advised as far as general election prospects are concerned, but to go through that bullshit to nominate Michael fucking Bloomberg... It's a disgrace enough that he's in the running and that somehow the Buttigieg campaign doesn't represent the biggest middle finger to the Democratic party's non-caucasian constituents. Nominating Bloomberg would be the end of the party. And anyone thinking he is somehow the most likely to defeat Trump head-to-head has no idea what the electorate even is anymore.

[allegro]

"what if he was OUR billionaire?!" bullshit
Um ... are you aware of who's Governor of my State of Illinois? Plenty of Democrats are billionaires.

Nobody (until you) has painted billionaire contributions to party campaigns as "kind-hearted." Any donations to party campaigns is, frankly, wasted bullshit. NO money should be necessary. But, it is what it is. It's strategic. We have a two-party system, and more and more money is needed with each election. If you start posting George Soros conspiracy shit, we'll know you're really just a Russian plant. Or, maybe just anti-Semitic. Who knows. Now, Lara Trump is retweeting QAnon.

And, now the Russians have put their giant thumb on the scale and are cheating. Trump welcomes the cheating, helps obtain the cheating, the Republicans have given him a free pass for the cheating. This is REALITY.

Trump just fired his interim National Security Director, Joseph McGuire (https://time.com/5788479/trump-fires-maguire/):


Trump, both officials said, was angered that Maguire had allowed Pierson to brief members of the House Intelligence Committee on what officials at the three agencies assess is an ongoing Russian effort to meddle in the 2020 presidential election in an effort to help Trump.

The Russians are also meddling in Congressional races, aiding some Republican candidates and targeting some Democratic ones, the officials say. “The Russians understand our system, and they know that the President needs the Senate to remain in friendly hands in order to carry out his agenda,” one of the officials said.

And now:

Bernie Sanders briefed by U.S. officials that Russia is trying to help his presidential campaign (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/bernie-sanders-briefed-by-us-officials-that-russia-is-trying-to-help-his-presidential-campaign/2020/02/21/5ad396a6-54bd-11ea-929a-64efa7482a77_story.html)

Of COURSE the Democratic Party is concerned about "protecting itself." THAT'S WHAT POLITICAL PARTIES DO. That is what ANY organizations do.

Most of you, here, are clutching your pearls over the importance of a President, but I don't see what any of you are doing about any Senate or House races. Or about Russian interference. Or about voter obstruction and what it does to minorities' ability to vote. I don't know that a lot of you really grok that a President can't pass legislation or budgets.

[Demogorgon]

Most of you, here, are clutching your pearls over the importance of a President, but I don't see what any of you are doing about any Senate or House races. Or about Russian interference. Or about voter obstruction and what it does to minorities' ability to vote. I don't know that a lot of you really grok that a President can't pass legislation or budgets.

Say it louder for the kids in the back.

[cdm]

So I can only assume a scoreboard is next? Where should we log our donations?