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muad'nin
12-19-2011, 06:58 PM
The forgotten score?

I've spent some time revisiting this release over the last few days and have found myself riveted.

What are your thoughts?

sheepdean
12-19-2011, 07:19 PM
I think iD are really missing a trick not re-releasing it as a standalone score, it's brilliant and one of Trent's best early works

jmtd
12-21-2011, 04:28 AM
The biggest problem with the score, at the time, IMHO, was that it was optional: you got it if you had the CD in when you played. I rarely bothered to dig out the CD, so most of the time I played Quake I didn't have the musical accompaniment, and really, it makes a huge difference to the atmosphere.

TR also did the sound effects for Quake, which I think are a more mixed affair. Some individual sounds, in isolation, are great (the invincibility power-up being one that pops out for me) but they didn't sound all that cohesive together. Certainly not as much as Doom's sound effects.

sheepdean
12-21-2011, 04:38 AM
The music he did for Doom 3 is also very good.

And jmtd, that's more a problem with old school gaming than with the score, surely?

BenAkenobi
12-21-2011, 05:12 AM
The music he did for Doom 3 is also very good.

Doom 3 music is all by Chris Vrenna, are you talking about a bunch of FX from a leaked alpha version?

Vertigo
12-21-2011, 05:29 AM
The music he did for Doom 3 is also very good.


No music, the only Trent material for Doom 3 that's been made available (via the leaked beta) are sounds for the zombie, Zombie Commando, Imp, Pinky, Hellknight, some of the weapons and some little misc things (mostly player noises). For some reason they're mixed very quietly in the downloadable soundpack, but that's easily fixed via winrar/notepad modding.
With very few exceptions (mainly the common garden zombie noises), they're much better than the final versions produced by Ed Lima, Christian Antkow etc, and even that little handful of replacement sound definitely enhances the atmosphere.
It's also rather funny going through the sound files and listening to Trent voicing "large pain 1-22"...

The really annoying thing is that interviews suggest there's a whole cache of Trent's Doom 3 work sitting on a disc somewhere. If only.....

:edit: Ninja'd by 17 minutes, how embarassing. Doom 3's intro theme was Clint Walsh with Chris Vrenna production, though. Vrenna also provided some of D3's awesome ambient level noises.


On topic, in my opinion Quake has one hell of a score, and unlike Ghosts it's proper ambient. Some of the later tracks are pretty boring, but it's made up for by the scorching main theme (must be listened to at high volume).

witte
12-21-2011, 05:42 AM
New topic.
Coincidence? This week I managed to get this.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/nine_inch_nerd/NIN collection/languischism-img600x450-1319522788jyst5p51611.jpg

Edit: this is not my table....

BenAkenobi
12-22-2011, 03:23 AM
i don't consider the opening track the best, i love all ten though. to the point that when there was supposed to be a fan interview i submitted question on Quake score in nin.com topic. wish Reznor could give these pieces proper titles, not just by corresponding game levels. this year the game turned fifteen y'know...

jmtd
12-22-2011, 03:30 AM
And jmtd, that's more a problem with old school gaming than with the score, surely?

Well it's not a fault of the score per se, but I think the score really needs to be appreciated in context.

my voice just
12-22-2011, 03:31 AM
did anyone notice similarities between this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFVufWdP4YI#t=290 and that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mfNjSjCo8o#t=81?

p.s.: sorry for forcing you to copy/paste - when i try to make a simple link to youtube, it just embed the whole video

j_kad
03-22-2012, 01:14 AM
I remember going out to the store and buying the DEMO disc of Quake specifically to get the music... yes we had to buy the demo for $10 I think! Silly Id software put full versions of several games on that disc including Quake that just needed a serial number... best $10 I ever spent - cool soundtrack and several games!!

Sallos
03-22-2012, 06:43 PM
pretty quake machine!!

Quake is my all time favorite shooter, i still play it today, be it online or speed running. The soundtrack is flawless.

Bonedwarf
03-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Strange, I was just discussing this with someone today. They were saying about games from days of yore that came with the soundtrack on the CD and that they were rare. I pointed out they weren't, and that Quake was one of the best.

I remember a mate burning a copy of Quake for me when I was in dire financial straits and couldn't buy it. Been a NIN fan for 20 years now, so I was looking forward to the game AND new NIN...

He didn't burn the audio did he. Just the game part... GAH! So it was sometime before I actually heard the proper music.

Ryan
03-25-2012, 03:38 AM
This definitely needs a deluxe re-release. It's pure evil.

sheepdean
03-25-2012, 10:54 AM
This definitely needs a deluxe re-release. It's pure evil.
I doubt there'll ever be a physical release of the OST, but an official download, with official bloody track names, would be great. Mixed into 5.1 too!

AvelineCyborg
03-25-2012, 10:11 PM
I would also totally love a re-release of this score in a nice foldout digipack or something. Love how atmospheric and creepy it is even though I've never listened to it in context. I'm an ambient music fan so this is just gold to me.

BenAkenobi
03-25-2012, 11:58 PM
...in a nice foldout digipak or something

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/quake.jpg

AvelineCyborg
03-26-2012, 07:18 PM
@ BenAkenobi ^
Oh wow that looks nice. I didn't know it existed in a digipack, I thought you could only get it in a regular boring jewel case. :p

sheepdean
05-08-2012, 11:42 PM
I got bored, so checked ASCAP for things Trent has done, just for the thrills (I live an exciting life). And I noticed this (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=881522155&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start), which is probably one of the Quake tracks - and the fact that bicycle now own it. I assume it was part of the PHM/Broken/Part of TDS deal they got, but it's rekindled my hope for a physical release of the OST.

Vertigo
05-09-2012, 03:13 AM
I got bored, so checked ASCAP for things Trent has done, just for the thrills (I live an exciting life). And I noticed this (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=881522155&search_in=i&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start), which is probably one of the Quake tracks - and the fact that bicycle now own it. I assume it was part of the PHM/Broken/Part of TDS deal they got, but it's rekindled my hope for a physical release of the OST.

The link doesn't work for me, what exactly is it?

sheepdean
05-09-2012, 03:17 AM
END LEVEL THEME 1

Work ID: 881522155






ISWC: T9048839038




Writers:
REZNOR MICHAEL TRENT (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=1523832&search_in=c&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start=1)



Performers:
NINE INCH NAILS (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=NINE%20INCH%20NAILS&search_in=a&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start=1)






Variations:
(none found)



Publishers/Administrators:
ARLOVOL MUSIC
C/O PENNY FARTHING MUSIC
C/O THE BICYCLE MUSIC COMPANY
449 S BEVERLY DR STE 300
BEVERLY HILLS, CA, 90212
Tel. (310) 286-6600
Email: licensing@bicyclemusic.com

LEAVING HOPE MUSIC INC
% GELFAND RENNERT & FELDMAN
1880 CENTURY PARK E
SUITE 1600
LOS ANGELES, CA, 90067
Tel. (310) 553-1707

SM Rollinger
05-27-2012, 06:23 PM
I never forgot about this one, its one of my favorites too. Mines a digipak, i never even knew you could get it in jewel case format.

Anyways, I dint know that Bicycle got Broken with PHM. That gets me excited that someday im going to seen on NIN.com that its been remastered/repackaged and is going to be rereleased in like 4-5 weeks or something, along with Fixed!

snaapz
09-23-2012, 11:17 AM
People, these days, really enjoy nostalgic things.

I'd love to see the team release a HD version of Quake 1. Same maps, sounds, sprites, lighting etc... keyword is SAME! Don't use these new dark room crappy detail engines.

Quake 1 alone may not pull in much $, but maybe release a package would!



Quake 1
Wolfenstein: Spear of Destiny
Doom
Bonus Commander Keen (I hated this game)

BenAkenobi
09-24-2012, 12:44 PM
snaapz: I'd love to see the team release a HD version of Quake 1. Same maps, sounds, sprites, lighting etc... keyword is SAME! Don't use these new dark room crappy detail engines.

you know that original Quake runs great in high res? both winquake and glquake (just delete file opengl32.dll, it supports only 3dfx)
multiplayer might not work today, however, not a big loss supposedly
other games suggested look like ballast that needs a serious rework in order to be playable in 201x.

jmtd
09-27-2012, 12:23 PM
It runs fast, it doesn't look great. Most of the modern engines (darkplaces etc.) do some serious work on the textures, they aren't the originals.

piggy
08-18-2013, 10:40 PM
I just got reacquainted with this soundtrack after several years and there's something that I've always wondered about it. I feel like there are a couple of things that could possibly be sampled or sourced from "The Downward Spiral" (the song). I think the screams on the opening track could be from that and the whispering on track 4 (or track 3 if you aren't counting from the data track) sounds like it could be a garbled version of the "problems do have solutions, you know" part (Coil also did something similar with that part for "The Downward Spiral (The Bottom)" from FDTS).

Ryan
06-15-2014, 07:22 AM
...in a nice foldout digipak or something

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/quake.jpg


Still needs an extra deluxe re-release IMO.

jmtd
06-15-2014, 07:52 AM
Still needs an extra deluxe re-release IMO.

That's essentially what this was:

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Id_Anthology

Ryan
06-15-2014, 04:51 PM
By le Trenticles!

echoplex31
06-30-2014, 06:48 AM
i got around to listening to the soundtrack today, for early work from trent this is really good, dark and sinister ambient tracks, just what the game needed

snaapz
07-16-2014, 11:56 AM
snaapz: I'd love to see the team release a HD version of Quake 1. Same maps, sounds, sprites, lighting etc... keyword is SAME! Don't use these new dark room crappy detail engines.

you know that original Quake runs great in high res? both winquake and glquake (just delete file opengl32.dll, it supports only 3dfx)
multiplayer might not work today, however, not a big loss supposedly
other games suggested look like ballast that needs a serious rework in order to be playable in 201x.

True! But just recently I added a new video card and now I can't get Quake to run properly any more. It opens and runs but all the colours are florescent. :mad: Can't find a work around... other than DOSBOX maybe.

BenAkenobi
07-16-2014, 12:58 PM
no idea what causes this, try glquake together with this driver http://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide (3dfx emulation)

jmtd
07-17-2014, 03:03 AM
Or download dark places?

I just recently played a 3rd party map from quaddicted.com and it kicked arse!

snaapz
07-21-2014, 09:35 AM
Thanks! I downloaded the newest catalyst driver (14.4) and if fixed it! 10 more years of Quake!

I was wondering...

Quake was a game changer, it is (was) extremely popular and we now have Quakecon.

Trent was indeed a part of Quakes success. The sound FX, ambiance and music track really helped to make the game. So, would Trent ever speak at or attend Quakecon?

snaapz
08-26-2014, 08:52 AM
Still listen to this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GXkCTJiL7U&index=5&list=PLl1QTmJ3lxchVZqN X2V7LkZ3HxoNhCuUI

jmtd
05-05-2015, 04:55 AM
I fired up Quake the other day, and something occurred to me that hadn't before.

As a side-issue, following some of the earlier discussion about getting quake working, here are even more reasons why you shouldn't bother with GLQuake: https://www.quaddicted.com/engines/software_vs_glquake

Anyway, what I noticed was that the sound effects in Quake (also by Reznor) are all 8bit, 11kHz. They really jar with the quality of the music now, imho. It would be wonderful if higher quality sounds still existed somewhere.

The doom3 leaked SFX are 24/22kHz. I've never listened to them before, but I wonder if they'd fit in the context Quake.

WorzelG
05-05-2015, 05:18 AM
Still listen to this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GXkCTJiL7U&index=5&list=PLl1QTmJ3lxchVZqN X2V7LkZ3HxoNhCuUI
This is my favourite one, love the heavy breathing and demonic singing voices

ZRFTS
05-05-2015, 05:50 AM
The doom3 leaked SFX are 24/22kHz. I've never listened to them before, but I wonder if they'd fit in the context Quake.

I've always wondered what Doom 3 would be like if Trent Reznor didn't get into a squabble with Id software... Wonder if there's a mod for that. ;)

jmtd
05-05-2015, 09:07 AM
I've always wondered what Doom 3 would be like if Trent Reznor didn't get into a squabble with Id software... Wonder if there's a mod for that. ;)

There is, at least for the leaked SFX that he did complete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=douuiUdyGEI

jmtd
06-15-2015, 01:03 PM
So it turns out the pre-release multiplayer-only test release, QTest, has higher quality sound effects than the final game, also alternatives and unused sound effects in the PAK file. I'm exploring now.

Ryan
06-16-2015, 12:12 AM
So it turns out the pre-release multiplayer-only test release, QTest, has higher quality sound effects than the final game, also alternatives and unused sound effects in the PAK file. I'm exploring now.

Hand them over cunt!

jmtd
06-16-2015, 04:14 AM
Hand them over cunt!

Flattery gets you everywhere.

The sounds extracted from the PAK, zipped up: http://jmtd.net/tmp/sounds.zip

also included is a CSV which conveniently lists the sample and bitrates for each sound. (by me, I should add.)

If you want QTest itself, this link works Qtest Download (http://www.moddb.com/downloads/mirror/31082/113/6b990fa4a8aca69c8f19a38ac1ba263f)

I had some trouble extracting the PAK file using conventional tools as it seems the PAK file format might have evolved between this and the final release of Quake.

Next up, I'm going to inspect the quake leaked pre-release beta and the half life alpha which apparently has unused quake assets in it too.

WorzelG
06-16-2015, 04:31 AM
Is Quake being re-released or something? Is there any way you can buy quake which includes the soundtrack without having to put the CD in?

Vertigo
06-16-2015, 04:43 AM
Flattery gets you everywhere.

The sounds extracted from the PAK, zipped up: http://jmtd.net/tmp/sounds.zip


Link doesn't work, 404. :/

Sallos
06-16-2015, 08:17 AM
Flattery gets you everywhere.

The sounds extracted from the PAK, zipped up: http://jmtd.net/tmp/sounds.zip

also included is a CSV which conveniently lists the sample and bitrates for each sound. (by me, I should add.)


If you want QTest itself, this link works Qtest Download (http://www.moddb.com/downloads/mirror/31082/113/6b990fa4a8aca69c8f19a38ac1ba263f)

I had some trouble extracting the PAK file using conventional tools as it seems the PAK file format might have evolved between this and the final release of Quake.

Next up, I'm going to inspect the quake leaked pre-release beta and the half life alpha which apparently has unused quake assets in it too.

to open the quake pak you need pak explorer.

1st tool
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools.shtml

sheepdean
06-16-2015, 08:22 AM
Is Quake being re-released or something? Is there any way you can buy quake which includes the soundtrack without having to put the CD in?
No (it's freeware so would be a huge waste of cash) and no. You can pirate it as it's freeware, but there is, to date, no standalone release of the OST

jmtd
06-16-2015, 09:46 AM
to open the quake pak you need pak explorer.

1st tool
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools.shtml

I was on a Mac, so I only tried the command-line tools, which I could build OK but none of them handled ID1.PAK. Someone I know on IRC authored a tool and uploaded it for me to https://github.com/E-werd/PakTool which worked. But I had to fire up a Windows VM to run it, CBA to get mono set up on the Mac beyond installing it.

Sorry for broken link, it's actually

http://jmtd.net/tmp/sound.zip

edit


No (it's freeware so would be a huge waste of cash) and no. You can pirate it as it's freeware, but there is, to date, no standalone release of the OST

A) Quake isn't freeware at all. There's a 1-episode shareware version, which is software rendering only and afaik a DOS executable, and that's it. The commercial game is still being sold actively. The engine source code has been released, and you can get many community-built, free engines, but you still need game data to play it.

But sadly, B), none of the places selling Quake nowadays (e.g. Steam) include the soundtrack. So you have to either buy a 2nd hand copy of the original CD release, or pirate (at least) the soundtrack.

BenAkenobi
06-16-2015, 11:16 AM
...but none of them handled ID1.PAK...

That was part of the agreement between ID and modding community, that the various mods all required full version of game to play, hence this "incompatibility".

jmtd
06-16-2015, 03:45 PM
That was part of the agreement between ID and modding community, that the various mods all required full version of game to play, hence this "incompatibility".

Mods shouldn't work with the SW version of quake (just pak0.pak), yes, I remember that agreement at the time. But pak tools could open pak0.pak just fine. I've just fired up a windows vm again and pakexplr managed them both and id1.pak too. So the issue seems to be with the from-source builds of the amateur tools on a modern machine.

I think the most likely explanation for why the tools I tried failed is that they make implicit assumptions that don't hold true in my OS X environment and basically throw a wobbly, probably sizeof(int) etc. being larger than expected (not being a 32 bit system)

Vertigo
06-16-2015, 06:10 PM
jmtd Awesome, thanks for the upload! I assume it's just the /nin directory that's Trent's work - kind of sparse. I don't have the full/final game, does he have more material in there?

jmtd
06-17-2015, 05:29 AM
@jmtd (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=663) Awesome, thanks for the upload! I assume it's just the /nin directory that's Trent's work - kind of sparse. I don't have the full/final game, does he have more material in there?

Yeah all the monster and most environmental effects are missing as QTtest was multiplayer only.

I'm not sure, I think "halo" could be TR too; the stuff in romero is likely John Romero goofing around, the stuff in American by American McGee.

jmtd
09-03-2015, 04:36 AM
Your Quake soundtrack rip is probably wrong.

Quake was recently re-released on GOG, including the soundtrack (for the DOS version: included CD ISO). Someone has been looking at ripping the disk, and in doing so they discovered that the CD was mastered with the rare pre-emphasis flag set.
http://www.gog.com/forum/quake_the_offering/quake_the_offering_music

Read up on CD pre-emphasis here
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Pre-emphasis#Pre-emphasis_on_audio_CD

recent iTunes versions can handle pre-emphasis on rips. I'm not sure about EAC etc. But, just about any rip that's been floating around the web is very unlikely to have applied the necessary de-emphasis.

jmtd
11-03-2015, 06:03 AM
I finally found my Quake CD, so I'm ripping it with some different rippers and comparing the results.

BenAkenobi
11-04-2015, 05:17 AM
Checked my Quake CD-ROM and EAC says it has no pre-emphasis.

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/eac-quake_zps2jx45feh.png

I have a digipak version with barcode 7 42725 12100 3
Is this story based on some other release with different audio mastering?

jmtd
11-16-2015, 10:13 AM
Checked my Quake CD-ROM and EAC says it has no pre-emphasis.

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/eac-quake_zps2jx45feh.png

I have a digipak version with barcode 7 42725 12100 3
Is this story based on some other release with different audio mastering?

I guess it must be. I have an early release (v1.01) , I'll check barcode and serial and what-not Tomorrow. But it definitely has the pre-emph flag.

Frozen Beach
11-17-2015, 10:18 AM
From what I read on a certain piracy site, the full retail version doesn't contain Pre-emphasis, and the tracks are bit-identical (besides the data track of course.) to the shareware release, which has Pre-emphasis. It's possible that the Pre-emphasis flags were made in error. I mean, it doesn't really make sense for it to have Pre-emphasis anyway. It's a pc game and most players are gonna be playing the soundtrack on their PC.

jmtd
11-18-2015, 04:30 AM
From what I read on a certain piracy site, the full retail version doesn't contain Pre-emphasis, and the tracks are bit-identical (besides the data track of course.) to the shareware release, which has Pre-emphasis. It's possible that the Pre-emphasis flags were made in error. I mean, it doesn't really make sense for it to have Pre-emphasis anyway. It's a pc game and most players are gonna be playing the soundtrack on their PC.

I'm afraid the certain piracy site is wrong. I have the first release boxed edition of Quake retail, version 1.01 CD, which I bought myself in 1996, and it does have pre-emphasis set. Here's EAC For that disk:

https://phobos.redmars.org/eac_preemph.png

I'm fairly certain the pre-emphasis flag was set in error, but what I don't know is whether or not the audio was also de-emphasised in error as well, so what is the correct version - de-emphasised or not? I'm currently leaning towards de-emphasis being necessary, based on listening to the results. But I'd prefer to come up with a logically tight reasoning for what would be right.

FWIW, back in the 90s CD-audio was been decoded by the CD-ROM drive in the computer and analogue audio data passed to the sound card over a dedicated cable. So the CD-ROM drive itself interpreted the pre-emph subcode and applied the de-emphasis curve.
BenAkenobi, one possibility is your digipak is a later, fixed version. Would you be prepared to share a FLAC/EAC rip of that CD with me for testing purposes? I can reciprocate with a rip from mine. If so let's take it to PM.

DigitalChaos
11-18-2015, 12:50 PM
Still listen to this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GXkCTJiL7U&index=5&list=PLl1QTmJ3lxchVZqN X2V7LkZ3HxoNhCuUI

I usually have this and a couple others playing on loop for most of my Halloween atmospheric needs, be it company party needs (we go all all out with the decorations) or at home for the yearly trick-or-treat needs. The high pitched sound in Parallel Dimensions works really well with the visuals of strobe lights, for some reason.

jmtd
11-19-2015, 01:28 AM
I usually have this and a couple others playing on loop for most of my Halloween atmospheric needs, be it company party needs (we go all all out with the decorations) or at home for the yearly trick-or-treat needs. The high pitched sound in Parallel Dimensions works really well with the visuals of strobe lights, for some reason.

That's generally my favourite track, although I've been spending more time with this one recently. The cornet/sax sounds towards the middle-end jump out during the game, and make me think TR is trying for a bit of Cosey Fanny Tutti



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4dPXQ8YFJI&index=4&list=PLl1QTmJ3lxchVZqN X2V7LkZ3HxoNhCuUI

jmtd
11-19-2015, 03:48 AM
OK the good news is BenAkenobi's copy is correctly mastered. I've pulled together some scrappy draft notes and stuff here http://jmtd.net/quake/ - but in short, the freq analysis of the beginning of track 2 (first audio track) is identical between Ben's copy and a rip of mine with cdparanoia, which is a pre-empt-aware ripper (so it did de-emphasis on the cd audio after ripping).

I have a graph of a bad rip I can put up (which doesn't account for the preemph flag), plus some accuraterip checksums, more details about how various rippers handle etc. - I also want to overlay the freq analysis of a good and bad rip to highlight the difference.

BenAkenobi
11-19-2015, 09:12 AM
And to think of all the old games that had midi music and users had to select appropriate driver for their soundcard, that choice could really make or break the game :D

kargath
11-19-2015, 05:30 PM
OK the good news is BenAkenobi's copy is correctly mastered. I've pulled together some scrappy draft notes and stuff here http://jmtd.net/quake/ - but in short, the freq analysis of the beginning of track 2 (first audio track) is identical between Ben's copy and a rip of mine with cdparanoia, which is a pre-empt-aware ripper (so it did de-emphasis on the cd audio after ripping).

I have a graph of a bad rip I can put up (which doesn't account for the preemph flag), plus some accuraterip checksums, more details about how various rippers handle etc. - I also want to overlay the freq analysis of a good and bad rip to highlight the difference.
Huh..never heard of that software, but definitely need to look more into it. The site I found shows the last release as 10.2 from 2008. And only for Linux. Is that accurate? Happen to know if there's a handy Windows equivalent or if someone makes Windows builds?

jmtd
11-20-2015, 03:53 AM
Huh..never heard of that software, but definitely need to look more into it. The site I found shows the last release as 10.2 from 2008. And only for Linux. Is that accurate? Happen to know if there's a handy Windows equivalent or if someone makes Windows builds?

It's probably accurate, yeah, but other rippers do similar things to cdparanoia. I just used it because I was sat at a Linux machine at the time. I'd stick to EAC on Windows, as the AccurateRip database is the only sure-fire way to guarantee a good rip, at least for releases that are in the AccurateRip database. (even with the techniques cdparanoia uses, it's still impossible to guarantee the rip is correct.) iTunes on Mac or Windows has a "use error correction" option which I think does basically the same thing as cdparanoia.

On Linux, there's a ripper called 'morituri' that does cdparanoia-like things and queries the AccurateRip DB.

I'm still not 100% sure precisely how EAC handles pre-emphasis flags, but it seems that it does...

sheepdean
12-16-2016, 07:46 PM
The new nin site has tracklistings for all the albums visible. Except Quake. So there goes my hope at some point of having official track titles

jaypayton
12-17-2016, 01:13 PM
dont think he ever named them when he composed them

Ryan
12-17-2016, 04:36 PM
That's irritating to me also.

jmtd
01-05-2017, 12:58 PM
I just hope one doesn't end up being "it is raped". Urgh.

Toadflax
01-05-2017, 03:02 PM
I love that the site links to ninwiki for more info. Surprising that it also links to some rando's YouTube channel where you can listen to the whole thing, though. I guess it makes sense if it's not something you can buy anymore.

How cool would it be to have a vinyl of this?

Henrie_Schnee
02-23-2017, 05:29 PM
Please allow me to re-animate this thread.

So the other week I learned about this whole "pre-emphasis"-dilemma, and then suddenly it all became clear to me: I always wanted to like this record, but I physically despise listening to it. To me it just sounded shitty, like sound quality from a dark era of soundcards. Then when Trent updated his blog last christmas, I was amazed to read him actually comment on it, like we'll try to make it available again.

Long story short:

There's seems to be a legal way to get this record, apparently id software uploaded the image of the original shareware-cd on Archive.org a few years ago. As far as they're concerned, this stuff is still free and meant to be distributed, they only claim copyright on the folders that would contain their paid ip (as in: the level data of the later levels and enemies), which are not contained in this image. No clue what their licencing agreement with Nine Inch Nails was.

As for the de-emphasizing: In a nutshell, this was a technique developed for first generation cd-players who were still strugglig with delivering the higher notes properly; so a method similar to dolby noise reduction was devised - cds were produced with boosted trebles which the record player would then (hopefully) de-emphasize. I can only speculate why id Software would do that in 1996, but maybe CD-Rom-drives, soundcards and especially computer speakers back then weren't much to write home about either...

Anyway: EAC on a windows detected the pre-emphasize on a burned copy of above mentioned shareware-disc, but after the rip none of the tracks could be varified with their database. Maybe I was supposed to click something and didn't. However: I was told that apparently iTunes has this superior pre-empashize detection, so I ended up using that ripping the disc to wave and then finish the conversion to flac later. The result: Sounds nice!

A simple way to check if your rip is emphasized is the 8:18 min track "The Hall of Souls" aka "Conscience" aka "Start/Whispers". If you listen to it through head- or earphones and you feel a disturbing sensation of tiny twigs breaking somewhere in the general area of your neck... then your rip is fucked. See above.

Cool game btw. I remember it fondly - although it was 'verboten' in my country... ;-)

piggy
02-24-2017, 12:13 AM
OK, so after listening to track 4 due to the post above, I was reminded of something I've been wondering about. It kind of sounds to me like the "problems do have solutions, you know" spoken line from TDS (the song) might have been sampled for this track, all chopped up and downpitched and just generally fucked with. Does anyone else think that?

Also, as I've mentioned before in this thread and never got any input from anyone, I strongly think track 2 samples the screaming from TDS as well.

sheepdean
06-05-2017, 02:58 PM
Quake's going to get a vinyl release (yay) - this means we're going to finally have tracknames, so get ready to update your ID3 tags #priorities https://store-uk.nin.com/collections/music/products/patriots-day-ost-1xlp

NIN64
06-05-2017, 03:06 PM
Quake's going to get a vinyl release (yay) - this means we're going to finally have tracknames, so get ready to update your ID3 tags #priorities https://store-uk.nin.com/collections/music/products/patriots-day-ost-1xlp

I have on my "O" face...

Toadflax
07-09-2017, 05:35 PM
Quake's going to get a vinyl release (yay) - this means we're going to finally have tracknames, so get ready to update your ID3 tags #priorities https://store-uk.nin.com/collections/music/products/patriots-day-ost-1xlp

I'm sure you've thought about this, but given the super minimalist presentation of Deviations, I'd say there's a reasonable chance the Quake LP is the cover art on the front, the minimum required amount of copyright, personnel, etc. info on the back... and nothing else. Track names will never exist, and you will be doomed to ever wander the chambers of this earth.

sheepdean
07-09-2017, 07:31 PM
I'm sure you've thought about this, but given the super minimalist presentation of Deviations, I'd say there's a reasonable chance the Quake LP is the cover art on the front, the minimum required amount of copyright, personnel, etc. info on the back... and nothing else. Track names will never exist, and you will be doomed to ever wander the chambers of this earth.
I considered this, but it'll come with digital downloads!

Toadflax
07-09-2017, 07:41 PM
I considered this, but it'll come with digital downloads!

You sure? I bought Prick, Lost Highway, and Hesitation Marks from the new store and have zero digital downloads to show for it.

poro765
07-09-2017, 09:17 PM
You sure? I bought Prick, Lost Highway, and Hesitation Marks from the new store and have zero digital downloads to show for it.
Trent said Patriots Day would be vinyl + hi-res as usual, so there's a good chance it'll come with digital downloads.

Jon
07-10-2017, 11:06 AM
So it turns out the pre-release multiplayer-only test release, QTest, has higher quality sound effects than the final game, also alternatives and unused sound effects in the PAK file. I'm exploring now.

Do you still happen to have the .zip for this? The two links you posted no longer work (sound.zip / sounds.zip).

jmtd
07-10-2017, 04:16 PM
Do you still happen to have the .zip for this? The two links you posted no longer work (sound.zip / sounds.zip).

Probably! I'll have a good look Tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder, actually; I forgot to look into this further.

jmtd
07-12-2017, 05:55 AM
Do you still happen to have the .zip for this? The two links you posted no longer work (sound.zip / sounds.zip).

It's here now https://jmtd.net/t/sound.zip

It also contains a CSV with fields filename, frequency, sample size and corresponding bitrate.

What I haven't done yet is match any of those up to final game sound effects and/or build a mod that upgrades the sound where possible.

Edit: there is/was a Quake mod called "MindGrid" which sourced some of the sound effects from commercial sound effect libraries (which supplied them in higher quality than was mixed down for the final quake sound effects). I haven't had a chance to try it, because the copy I found had been remuxed into a PK3 for some engine or other that supports those, but QuakeSpasm (the one I use) does not.

Jon
07-12-2017, 01:30 PM
Edit: there is/was a Quake mod called "MindGrid" which sourced some of the sound effects from commercial sound effect libraries (which supplied them in higher quality than was mixed down for the final quake sound effects). I haven't had a chance to try it, because the copy I found had been remuxed into a PK3 for some engine or other that supports those, but QuakeSpasm (the one I use) does not.

If it's the same .zip I have, the .pk3 file was made specifically for ezQuake.

MediaInfo reports all of the sounds are 1-channel PCM @ 16-bit/44.1kHz (avg. bitrate of 705kbps for all files).

Xen
07-27-2017, 12:19 PM
Quite possibly my favorite video game soundtrack. It beats anything released in the past 10 - 15 years, IMHO all these new games have similar sounding soundtracks with their orchestral arrangements. Soundtracks from games made in the '90s were so unique and original.

jmtd
10-13-2018, 10:56 AM
On the UK store, it’s graduates from “coming soon” to “out of stock”

snaapz
10-15-2018, 10:57 AM
Quake is also my all time fav; I still listen to the OST often.

If you like gaming tracks check out Frank Klepacki, he does some good stuff Here's one of my favs by him from the 90's Command and Conquer; the bass line makes the song... for the longest time I never even heard the bass as I had crappy PC speakers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8U0kPfAWp8

jmtd
12-09-2018, 01:05 PM
I was jonesing about this still not existing on vinyl when remembered that several tracks are on the "dead souls" bootleg that I own but have never span. So I did this weekend.

sheepdean
12-09-2018, 10:55 PM
Annoyed helpdesk recently about this, still no word if anyone's wondering

SchwarzerAbt
12-10-2018, 02:10 PM
There's seems to be a legal way to get this record, apparently id software uploaded the image of the original shareware-cd on Archive.org a few years ago. As far as they're concerned, this stuff is still free and meant to be distributed, they only claim copyright on the folders that would contain their paid ip (as in: the level data of the later levels and enemies), which are not contained in this image. No clue what their licencing agreement with Nine Inch Nails was.

I think I found the right package, it's called "msdos_Quake_1996". I managed to download the CD data (.bin/.cue file) and mounted the image, so that I can access the files. The problem is that I still don't see any music. Should there be .wav files? Are they hidden in another archive (e.g. there is a file called "resource.1" which I cannot open)? Or do I really have to burn a physical CD and rip it with a suitable program? I noticed that the .bin file is much larger than the folder that emerges.

Does anyone here have any idea? It would be much appreciated! :rolleyes:

Edit: I converted the Quake.bin to an .iso file and found the music as cdr audio raw data. Now I can convert to FLAC/mp3! :D

allegate
12-15-2018, 10:20 PM
I'm sure you've thought about this, but given the super minimalist presentation of Deviations, I'd say there's a reasonable chance the Quake LP is the cover art on the front, the minimum required amount of copyright, personnel, etc. info on the back... and nothing else. Track names will never exist, and you will be doomed to ever wander the chambers of this earth.
This is the quake soundtrack, not doom.

theimage13
12-16-2018, 01:48 PM
This is the quake soundtrack, not doom.

Looking for wordplay in year+ old posts? Faulty attempt at a joke there, buddy.

allegate
12-16-2018, 02:31 PM
I know, I didn't see the date until I had already posted. :(

theimage13
12-16-2018, 02:57 PM
I know, I didn't see the date until I had already posted. :(

Hopefully you at least caught the joke in my post...

sheepdean
12-16-2018, 11:22 PM
Has anyone got a reliable way to get the soundtrack to play with Quake on Steam?

This might be a tech question

BenAkenobi
12-17-2018, 12:41 AM
This might be a tech question

Did you buy the game there out of the blue? You're in for some work. They got guides, for example, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=119489135

sheepdean
12-17-2018, 12:45 AM
Did you buy the game there out of the blue? You're in for some work. They got guides, for example, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=119489135
I have the CD, but I'm on Win10 so that's just not gonna happen. I realised I've had it in my library forever, tried playing it and no audio

Haysey_Draws
12-17-2018, 05:20 AM
Last time i played this was on the SEGA Saturn...that's going back a bit!

zecho
12-17-2018, 11:51 AM
Has anyone got a reliable way to get the soundtrack to play with Quake on Steam?

This might be a tech question

The best way to do this on a modern computer is to use a source port of Quake, not the official release. I'm away from my computer right now, but when I have access to it I'll let you know my set up to play it. If I recall correctly, it wasn't very difficult, and it doesn't require a CD at all if you have digital music files.

zecho
12-17-2018, 03:21 PM
Has anyone got a reliable way to get the soundtrack to play with Quake on Steam?

This might be a tech question

Okay, here it is: https://mega.nz/#!sYEiSSYA!65Dq0zyaZGwFdnW_opjw14XxWifZJm-uqC1fXg-b-f0

It comes with the soundtrack, so you don't need a CD or files. All you do is run the unpacker in the folder you want, then run the .bat file it unpacks in that folder. It uses the source port DarkPlaces which you can read about here :https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/
It's essentially exactly the same as the original release, but runs on an updated engine with more options. This is the only way I've played Quake for years; it's hard to go back after you get all the new rendering and key-binding options. If you run into any problems, there's a FAQ on the site to help and to explain some of the new options.

allegate
12-17-2018, 09:57 PM
Hopefully you at least caught the joke in my post...
;)

blassster
12-29-2018, 09:32 PM
Okay, here it is: https://mega.nz/#!sYEiSSYA!65Dq0zyaZGwFdnW_opjw14XxWifZJm-uqC1fXg-b-f0

It comes with the soundtrack, so you don't need a CD or files. All you do is run the unpacker in the folder you want, then run the .bat file it unpacks in that folder. It uses the source port DarkPlaces which you can read about here :https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/
It's essentially exactly the same as the original release, but runs on an updated engine with more options. This is the only way I've played Quake for years; it's hard to go back after you get all the new rendering and key-binding options. If you run into any problems, there's a FAQ on the site to help and to explain some of the new options.I played through it using darkplaces about a decade ago, it was quite a treat.

snaapz
12-18-2019, 12:40 PM
'NOTHING EVER ENDS' off of WATCHMEN: VOL 3 could TOTALLY be a track for Quake.

The breathy vocals of TR on this track remind me a lot of this track...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yohb3uhnmrs&list=PLE9667CC95C1A1ED7

tricil
01-10-2020, 11:05 AM
Listening to my rip today.


When/if this ever comes to NIN.com, it’ll have to be a 2LP because it’s an hour (vinyl can only hold 45 minutes). https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200110/9ee47868240a6476a6341314a7fc8003.jpg

Jon
01-10-2020, 11:28 AM
'NOTHING EVER ENDS' off of WATCHMEN: VOL 3 could TOTALLY be a track for Quake.

The breathy vocals of TR on this track remind me a lot of this track...

"Trespasser" from the extended Bird Box score would work well, also.

Kind of a weird request, but can someone point me towards a version that has not been de-emphasized? I have a later version which does not have pre-emphasis applied.

sonic_discord
01-10-2020, 11:30 AM
More than anything, I'm really hoping that when this eventually gets released Trent finally gives all of the tracks official names.

jmtd
01-10-2020, 04:40 PM
"Trespasser" from the extended Bird Box score would work well, also.

Kind of a weird request, but can someone point me towards a version that has not been de-emphasized? I have a later version which does not have pre-emphasis applied.

I'll PM you a link to a rip I did of my 1.01 CD (PREEMPH flag) with "cdparanoia" which, so far as I can tell, does not apply de-emphasis. But you may wish to confirm that. I'd be interested if you can (and/or any comparisons you produce)

Jon
01-13-2020, 09:35 PM
I'll PM you a link to a rip I did of my 1.01 CD (PREEMPH flag) with "cdparanoia" which, so far as I can tell, does not apply de-emphasis. But you may wish to confirm that. I'd be interested if you can (and/or any comparisons you produce)

The catalog number for my release is 1000463.201.US (back of jewelcase); 1000463.221.US (from back of booklet). Mine came in a bigger box packaged with the 2 expansion/content updates, purchased from Sam's Club. I've already confirmed that my disc is Quake v1.08, WinQuake v1.09, and GLQuake ? (should be the latest version); it does not contain pre-emphasis and appears to be a completely different pressing. There are slight millisecond differences in the tracking (which ends up just being silence), and the data track shows as 4.5x times the length in EAC.

I plan on posting all my logs here when I'm done. I'm ripping with the latest EAC, EAC v0.95 prebeta 3, dBpoweramp, iTunes, and CDParanoia. Is there any other program you'd like me to try when comparing our rips?

nmitchell86
01-13-2020, 10:27 PM
I think the delay in the release of the vinyl is due to TR having trouble naming the tracks... just my opinion.

StockAvuryah
01-14-2020, 09:49 AM
I think the delay in the release of the vinyl is due to TR having trouble naming the tracks... just my opinion.

I swear they're trying to make a good glitch track with the game data as track 1.

StockAvuryah
01-14-2020, 09:55 AM
Or they're just trying to include every alternate names in one, like


5. "It is grisly freezing, vertico raped grotto"

Shadaloo
01-16-2020, 01:10 PM
I would really not be surprised to learn that the reason we've had no news about the Quake soundtrack is Bethesda being dicks. Or maybe given the success of the two recent Doom games they want to do a similar reboot and ask TR to score again, leading to the album being re-released to coincide with a new game.

tricil
01-16-2020, 04:20 PM
...ripping my disc without pre-empasis now as iTunes rips apparently don't account for this...

sonic_discord
01-16-2020, 09:44 PM
Or maybe given the success of the two recent Doom games they want to do a similar reboot and ask TR to score again, leading to the album being re-released to coincide with a new game.

That would be awesome, but as much fun as Quake II and Quake 4 were (I loved the grotesque humanoid-merged-with-machine look of the Strogg), I would REALLY like to see them return to the style, mood, and satanic-church-meets-medieval-castle aesthetic of the first game.

Jon
01-17-2020, 09:25 AM
...ripping my disc without pre-empasis now as iTunes rips apparently don't account for this...

I hadn't gotten around to trying with iTunes yet. Which version of iTunes did you use? If I remember correctly, it properly de-emphasized at some point.

tricil
01-17-2020, 09:27 AM
I hadn't gotten around to trying with iTunes yet. Which version of iTunes did you use? If I remember correctly, it properly de-emphasized at some point.

The latest version, aka “Music”

my rip from Apple Music sounds muted but my XLD rip sounds brighter and fuller.

Jon
01-17-2020, 09:40 AM
The latest version, aka “Music”

my rip from Apple Music sounds muted but my XLD rip sounds brighter and fuller.

Oh, Mac? iTunes absolutely applies de-emphasis unless we're talking a 15+ year old computer. Also, the more muted rip should (always) be correct when comparing pre-emphasis/de-emphasis rips.

It's much harder to tell on something like this, but instantly stands out in genres like Jazz, or brass-heavy music.

Wulgaren
01-18-2020, 07:59 AM
Made a full tracklist out of StockAvuryah's idea because why not lol



Persian Inversion of the Quake
Aftermath of the Life Beneath it All
Start of Whispers in the Hall of Souls
It is a Grisly Freezing, Vertigo Raped Grotto
Journey into the Parallel Dimensions of Slipgate Complex
Underearth Hammer
Icy Damnation from the Castles
Necropolitan Focus or Maybe Peace?
Falling into Ziggurat with Violence Inside
The Reaction to the Death Inside the Gloom Keep

tricil
01-18-2020, 10:30 AM
Oh, Mac? iTunes absolutely applies de-emphasis unless we're talking a 15+ year old computer. Also, the more muted rip should (always) be correct when comparing pre-emphasis/de-emphasis rips.

It's much harder to tell on something like this, but instantly stands out in genres like Jazz, or brass-heavy music.

Sent you a PM to compare

StockAvuryah
01-18-2020, 03:23 PM
Made a full tracklist out of StockAvuryah's idea because why not lol



Persian Inversion of the Quake
Aftermath of the Life Beneath it All
Start of Whispers in the Hall of Souls
It is a Grisly Freezing, Vertigo Raped Grotto
Journey into the Parallel Dimensions of Slipgate Complex
Underearth Hammer
Icy Damnation from the Castles
Necropolitan Focus or Maybe Peace?
Falling into Ziggurat with Violence Inside
The Reaction to the Death Inside the Gloom Keep



That's it now we'll have the vinyl next week, wonderful

I particularly like Necropolitan Focus or Maybe Peace? Maybe?

BenAkenobi
01-19-2020, 06:47 AM
Quad facepalm is not enough to react to those ^^^

StockAvuryah
01-19-2020, 08:21 AM
Quad facepalm is not enough to react to those ^^^

It wouldn't save you from your own ego

BenAkenobi
01-19-2020, 11:57 AM
My ego won't suffer at all if the soundtrack release would come without fancy titles :p

-- edit --
i mean, there's a certain kind of beauty in labels on the records that just read: Quake soundtrack by nine inch nails. Side A. Quake soundtrack by nine inch nails. Side B. etc.

Erneuert
01-19-2020, 01:29 PM
My ego won't suffer at all if the soundtrack release would come without fancy titles :p

Just retag them to whatever generic names you prefer, no?

Jon
01-19-2020, 03:34 PM
Sent you a PM to compare

I am terrible at presentation, but I have finished analyzing all of the rips, and have some "revelations" about Quake.

First, every physical release of Quake has pre-emphasis. Every. Single. One. However, they abandoned adding the pre-emphasis flag at some point. This is the prompt (flag) that ripping programs look at to determine whether or not to apply de-emphasis. If the program is unable to detect the flag, or it flat-out doesn't exist, then you get a non de-emphasized rip. This is true regardless of what program is used.

I can tell you that your iTunes rip is accurate, and how it's supposed to sound. Mine wasn't. Want to guess why? Yours had the flag set, which let iTunes know to apply de-emphasis, my release has no flags whatsoever. That means that any rip from a Quake release which tells you there is no pre-emphasis is inaccurate (you need to de-emphasize it yourself). All of my first rips were inaccurate. I used SoX to deemph all of my rips, and what do you know, they matched your initial iTunes rip. I then de-emphasized your XLD rip, and yep, it matched your initial iTunes rip. Your initial XLD rip matched all of my initial rips, which is what tipped me off.

I have Spek and Audacity screenshots for every rip, before and after using SoX to de-emphasize. I also have shntool, auCDtect, and DR logs for everything. I wanted to get all of the pertinent information out there before (unnecessarily) flooding my point with technical shit that most people don't care about or makes no sense to them. I "have the receipts" though, if you'd like to see a few visual comparisons.

tricil
01-19-2020, 05:50 PM
Thank you for this. I'm used to hearing it "right" myself, but ever since I ripped it "incorrectly," I think I favor the brighter version. It makes the de-emphasized version sound literally filtered (which it is, technically).

Jon
01-19-2020, 10:12 PM
Thank you for this. I'm used to hearing it "right" myself, but ever since I ripped it "incorrectly," I think I favor the brighter version. It makes the de-emphasized version sound literally filtered (which it is, technically).

Yep, and add to that we're more accustomed to music sounding this way (now) thanks to the "Loudness Wars" / brickwall mastering. I personally find the boost in treble harsh, but that's probably from blasting my ears with incorrect Miles Davis and John Coltrane rips for so long. Red Book pre-emphasis is more or less equivalent to what some would call a "loud remaster":

https://i.imgur.com/NWaZQyn.png

https://i.imgur.com/Dgrahs9.png

Erneuert
01-20-2020, 05:13 AM
Quake Theme - aka Reptile’s awesome badass cousin.

dtuck90
01-20-2020, 05:55 AM
I’d never heard anything from Quake at all so decided to do some hunting last night.

Little did I know the disc images are available on archive.org which made it all super easy. Fortunately XLD can read bin+cue files so was able to extract the soundtrack instantly and then I used xAct to apply de-emphasis so now I have a perfect FLAC copy of the soundtrack.

Erneuert
01-20-2020, 06:02 AM
I’d never heard anything from Quake at all so decided to do some hunting last night.

Little did I know the disc images are available on archive.org which made it all super easy. Fortunately XLD can read bin+cue files so was able to extract the soundtrack instantly and then I used xAct to apply de-emphasis so now I have a perfect FLAC copy of the soundtrack.

Your thoughts? IMO you could remove the original soundtrack from The Shining, insert the Quake soundtrack and it’d be just as haunting.

dtuck90
01-20-2020, 06:06 AM
Your thoughts? IMO you could remove the original soundtrack from The Shining, insert the Quake soundtrack and it’d be just as haunting.

Half way through so far and really enjoying it. It’s sort of TDS ambient cousin with lots of overlap of sounds used etc and the feel of it

jmtd
01-20-2020, 08:33 AM
The catalog number for my release is 1000463.201.US (back of jewelcase); 1000463.221.US (from back of booklet). Mine came in a bigger box packaged with the 2 expansion/content updates, purchased from Sam's Club. I've already confirmed that my disc is Quake v1.08, WinQuake v1.09, and GLQuake ? (should be the latest version); it does not contain pre-emphasis and appears to be a completely different pressing. There are slight millisecond differences in the tracking (which ends up just being silence), and the data track shows as 4.5x times the length in EAC.

I plan on posting all my logs here when I'm done. I'm ripping with the latest EAC, EAC v0.95 prebeta 3, dBpoweramp, iTunes, and CDParanoia. Is there any other program you'd like me to try when comparing our rips?

Wow thanks, cool. I don't think we/I/you need any more rips, but the question I really want to try and answer is, was the pre-emphasis flag set intentionally, or was it a production error?

I.e, does applying de-emphasis to the data on my 1.01 CD produce something audibly equivalent to a straight rip of your later CD? If not, which is wrong? :)

Since the de-emphasis step is not a perfect digital process, we won't get 1:1 streams but hopefully they're close enough to be ably to audibly tell whether it has been applied or not, or close enough that some kind of frequency analysis clearly shows whether they're close.

My theory is: If the later pressings without the pre-emphasis flag set are roughly equivalent in terms of frequency distribution to a de-emphasised copy of the original pressing, then the flag was set intentionally and that is the "correct" audio. If the audio stream (w/o applying de-emphasis) on the original and later pressing are equivalent, then the pre-emphasis flag was set in error and the audio should never have been de-emphasised.

botley
01-20-2020, 10:31 AM
Wow thanks, cool. I don't think we/I/you need any more rips, but the question I really want to try and answer is, was the pre-emphasis flag set intentionally, or was it a production error?

I.e, does applying de-emphasis to the data on my 1.01 CD produce something audibly equivalent to a straight rip of your later CD? If not, which is wrong? :)

Since the de-emphasis step is not a perfect digital process, we won't get 1:1 streams but hopefully they're close enough to be ably to audibly tell whether it has been applied or not, or close enough that some kind of frequency analysis clearly shows whether they're close.

My theory is: If the later pressings without the pre-emphasis flag set are roughly equivalent in terms of frequency distribution to a de-emphasised copy of the original pressing, then the flag was set intentionally and that is the "correct" audio. If the audio stream (w/o applying de-emphasis) on the original and later pressing are equivalent, then the pre-emphasis flag was set in error and the audio should never have been de-emphasised.
I'm not sure. The treble is very harsh on some tracks without applying the de-emphasis curve, but to my ears it's not harsh enough when the standard curve is applied. This is another reason why we need a Definitive Edition!

Shadaloo
01-21-2020, 07:13 AM
Might be old, but news to me. Someone undid the backwards masking so you can hear a few things Trent says during the whispering. Neat!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycYklz9tpEk

Erneuert
01-21-2020, 07:50 AM
Might be old, but news to me. Someone undid the backwards masking so you can hear a few things Trent says during the whispering. Neat!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycYklz9tpEk

Can’t listen right now. Can anyone transcribe? piggy must add to ninwiki!

jmtd
01-22-2020, 05:39 AM
Thanks Jon for putting all the work in to get us this far!

I still think it's unfortunately not clear what Trent's intention was. It's still possible that the pre-emph flag was set in error on the original master. I mean it's a surreal decision to set it at all in 1995. I can't think why they wouldn't have baked the EQ in if that was the desired result. But it's also possible that it was dropped in error on the re-issues, especially since it's more likely that team NIN were less hands-on (or at all involved) when those were produced.


Can’t listen right now. Can anyone transcribe? @piggy (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=568) must add to ninwiki!

"much too long", "talk too much", "get too far" ; it's still pretty hard to pick out ;)

snichols
01-22-2020, 09:07 AM
Forma Tadre "Navigator" reminds me a lot of the Quake soundtrack.

Jon
01-22-2020, 01:59 PM
Thanks @Jon (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=457) for putting all the work in to get us this far!

I still think it's unfortunately not clear what Trent's intention was. It's still possible that the pre-emph flag was set in error on the original master. I mean it's a surreal decision to set it at all in 1995. I can't think why they wouldn't have baked the EQ in if that was the desired result. But it's also possible that it was dropped in error on the re-issues, especially since it's more likely that team NIN were less hands-on (or at all involved) when those were produced.

With the sound effects primarly being 11/22, wouldn't that lean more towards the music pre-emphasis being the choice of a developer/designer?

Vinyl, please

tricil
01-22-2020, 03:55 PM
Forma Tadre "Navigator" reminds me a lot of the Quake soundtrack.

I don’t hear it at all but what an amazing record. See also, Haujobb - Freeze Frame Reality.

neorev
01-22-2020, 06:07 PM
What's the best audio rip of Quake out there? I got an old lossless rip, but curious if there's a better, newer lossless one out there.

Leviathant
01-22-2020, 06:37 PM
Thanks @Jon (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=457) for putting all the work in to get us this far!

I still think it's unfortunately not clear what Trent's intention was. It's still possible that the pre-emph flag was set in error on the original master. I mean it's a surreal decision to set it at all in 1995. I can't think why they wouldn't have baked the EQ in if that was the desired result. But it's also possible that it was dropped in error on the re-issues, especially since it's more likely that team NIN were less hands-on (or at all involved) when those were produced.



"much too long", "talk too much", "get too far" ; it's still pretty hard to pick out ;)

I might be projecting, but after 1:10, I think that among the other voices, I heard "trigger" (@ 1:23.5 - 1:24) and "determined flash" ...and I feel pretty strongly like I hear "bang" @ 1:18 - these repeat one or more two times in the audio that follows.

botley
01-22-2020, 06:49 PM
With the sound effects primarly being 11/22, wouldn't that lean more towards the music pre-emphasis being the choice of a developer/designer?

I don't know if I buy the theory (put about in a thread on HydrogenAudio (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=104876.0) a couple of years back) that the developers were forced to use low-bitrate sound effects due to system restrictions, and therefore surreptitiously slipped pre-emphasis flags into the CD so the rolled-off treble would match the in-game sound effects better. It's more likely that the developers had nothing to do with the use (intentional or not) of pre-emphasis. I remember reading that Reznor insisted id Software provide the soundtrack in uncompressed CD audio as a condition of his participation, but I really doubt they had the budget to go to a fully-fledged music mastering house and pay a top-dollar engineer who knew what they were doing each time they patched/updated the software and had to assemble new master disks as a result. I'm leaning towards the pre-emphasis flags being set to "on" in some pressings (including mine) by mistake, and accurately set to "off" in others; it'd just be the result of when and where they assembled the master disk someone pushed the incorrect button.

Leviathant
01-22-2020, 07:04 PM
I'm leaning towards the pre-emphasis flags being set to "on" in some pressings (including mine) by mistake, and accurately set to "off" in others; it's just a function of when and where they assembled the master disk someone pushed the incorrect button.

That seems the likeliest path, given how uncommon pre-emphasis is on CDs. The credits on my shareware disc just say "Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails for Sound Effects and Music" - there's no information about whether or not anyone even mastered it. It just seems like it would have been a very odd choice if it was deliberate, and more like someone forgot to reset the system before pressing the next master.

The code on the inside ring of my disc is IFPI L532 and then (in reverse type) 203029-05 Y6802N. I have no idea if that gives any indication of the plant that pressed it - I never got that deep into tracking down manufacturing information.

Bring on the Definitive Edition!

botley
01-22-2020, 07:27 PM
The code on the inside ring of my disc is IFPI L532 and then (in reverse type) 203029-05 Y6802N. I have no idea if that gives any indication of the plant that pressed it - I never got that deep into tracking down manufacturing information.

The inside ring code beginning with IFPI Lxxx indicates the designated number of an individual laser beam recorder machine that was used to etch the glass master. For example, on my Canadian retail copy distributed by GT Interactive, it's IFPI L531, so the master disks that pressed our copies were likely etched at the same facility by adjacent machines. There should be another IFPI code on the transparent hub of the disc, which is hard to see except under bright light at certain angles, indicating the plant and stamper that was used to make your specific disc.

botley
01-22-2020, 07:32 PM
And, yes, I recognize it's dumb that the convention for "master disk" when it comes to the glass master is a different spelling than the final product it produces, which is a "compact disc".

Leviathant
01-22-2020, 08:52 PM
there should be another ifpi code on the transparent hub of the disc, which is hard to see except under bright light at certain angles, indicating the plant and stamper that was used to make your specific disc.

ifpi 92s4

FULLMETAL
01-22-2020, 11:22 PM
I have this version https://www.discogs.com/Trent-Reznor-Quake-Shareware/release/337055 with the ifpi 1010 Mould Code (my old man eyes couldn't see the Mastering Code). LMK if you need a rip from this version.

sonic_discord
01-23-2020, 12:59 AM
IFPI L804 (backwards one) & IFPI 2F67 (tiny hard to see one) here

Jon
01-23-2020, 10:55 AM
IFPI 4121 (inner ring)
IFPI L238

Nice to see not one match yet

Leviathant
01-23-2020, 12:08 PM
This thread inspired me to do a thing last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6MIMnud8nM

tricil
01-23-2020, 03:48 PM
Ifpi l533
ipfi 92s4

trollmanen
01-23-2020, 09:51 PM
I'm on a Mac, what software can I use to see if the flag is on my copy? I ripped with XLD and then used xAct to make a de-emphasis copy, but I'm using Audition to compare the two, and the info above 16kHz isn't as pronounced on my original. So maybe mine has the flag?

EDIT: booted up my old XP machine and used EAC, and it says "No" pre-emphasis.

IFPI 3V38 (inner ring)
IFPI LG32

Jon
01-24-2020, 09:50 AM
I'm on a Mac, what software can I use to see if the flag is on my copy? I ripped with XLD and then used xAct to make a de-emphasis copy, but I'm using Audition to compare the two, and the info above 16kHz isn't as pronounced on my original. So maybe mine has the flag?

EDIT: booted up my old XP machine and used EAC, and it says "No" pre-emphasis.

IFPI 3V38 (inner ring)
IFPI LG32

If using EAC to test for pre-emphasis flags, the safest bet is v0.95 prebeta 3. The ability to detect flags in the subcode was removed after this version.

ETA: You can download a portable version, so that you can have multiple versions of EAC without them interfering with one another.

BenAkenobi
01-25-2020, 02:37 AM
Just a fun fact: this godforsaken emphasis flag is also supported in mp3 format, however, it's ignored by most decoders. Tried with lame3.97, got equal wav files from mp3s made with and without -e switch.

Erneuert
01-25-2020, 06:35 PM
All posts from botley’s at number 138 to the last one above are extremely sexy, and I have no idea what’s being said in most of it.

neorev
01-28-2020, 11:46 PM
I bet you the Quake vinyl remaster will come out next year as 2021 just happens to be the 25th anniversary of Quake.

allegate
01-29-2020, 08:32 AM
"The Fragile" anniversary surround mix says "soon".

sonic_discord
01-29-2020, 09:55 AM
"The Fragile" anniversary surround mix says "soon".

What are you talking about? I don't see anything matching your description. Please elaborate!

wizfan
01-29-2020, 10:02 AM
For all you foobar2000 users, here's a handy tool (https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_deemph) to de-emphasize your Quake CD.

allegate
01-29-2020, 10:21 AM
What are you talking about? I don't see anything matching your description. Please elaborate!
It's a joke on how long Trent talked about the surround mix vs. how many copies of the surround mix he released combined with his "soon". It's pretty meta.

sonic_discord
01-29-2020, 10:48 AM
It's a joke on how long Trent talked about the surround mix vs. how many copies of the surround mix he released combined with his "soon". It's pretty meta.

Oh, okay. I understand the meta jokes, I just at first thought (hoped) you were referencing a new Fragile item that had shown up in the store and was getting excited.

allegate
01-29-2020, 11:08 AM
Oh, okay. I understand the meta jokes, I just at first thought (hoped) you were referencing a new Fragile item that had shown up in the store and was getting excited.
I posted that and while driving to work I thought "I should have put the 'made myself sad' gif on there". so here it is:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/7qyOgkJABTeuI/giphy.gif

variablebitrate
02-02-2020, 12:36 PM
I’m appreciative for the tip on the archive upload, which I used the other night and
did the XLD method. I’m also keen to get reacquainted with my old copy of Quake that I’ve got stashed at my old place. I have zero recollection of purchasing it, but there it is. Curious to match up the info and see if I have the flag in EAC.

BenAkenobi
02-03-2020, 01:59 AM
We have no definite way to tell if it's really supposed to be de-emph'd, it's highly probable that we're chasing ghosts here

allegate
02-03-2020, 07:47 AM
that's a different thread entirely.

Jon
02-05-2020, 09:30 PM
We have no definite way to tell if it's really supposed to be de-emph'd, it's highly probable that we're chasing ghosts here

I honestly like the idea of all this being dismissed by a remaster/reissue on vinyl, complete with snarky hype sticker blurb.

perterje
05-15-2020, 02:28 AM
I don't know if this has been discussed already, but it doesn't seem like it. Doom Eternal contains "collectibles" such as albums, playable in-game, featuring songs from previous Doom and Quake games. But pretty much the only game missing is the original Quake.
Coincidence? Or is there some legal trouble here that also affects the release of the soundtrack?

otnavuskire
09-16-2020, 12:10 PM
It's here!

https://store.nin.com/collections/music/products/quake-vinyl

gorast
09-16-2020, 12:11 PM
Holy shit it's fucking real. Official track titles! Definitive Edition-style booklet download! What a world!

Today is automatically a great day.

spahn
09-16-2020, 12:13 PM
Trent told me not to post this but I am not a good listener!

https://www.nin.com/john-carmak-american-mcgee/ (https://www.nin.com/john-carmak-american-mcgee/)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2486/0276/files/QUAKE_essays_SEP15_FIN4_GRACoL_CL.pdf?v=1600226971

blassster
09-16-2020, 12:16 PM
No digital DL mentioned on the store pages of either new release, but I'm assuming they're included.


Zenimax are petty and don't even invite Carmack to quakecon, last I heard (correct?) (heard on a podcast?).

jmtd
09-16-2020, 12:30 PM
£40 wtf

And “is it raped” confirmed. Eugh

otnavuskire
09-16-2020, 12:32 PM
Anyone here have the means to arrange an ETS funded printing of the essay booklet?

eversonpoe
09-16-2020, 12:34 PM
Anyone here have the means to arrange an ETS funded printing of the essay booklet?

would happily throw in for this

Wulgaren
09-16-2020, 12:45 PM
are people getting downloads when buying the vinyl?

enola
09-16-2020, 12:45 PM
this made my day

jmtd
09-16-2020, 12:49 PM
are people getting downloads when buying the vinyl?

Apparently not

allegate
09-16-2020, 12:49 PM
I saw this in the main page as being active and thought, "I bet it came out today". Sure enough.

now to remember my NIN password since it won't save on this browser.

edit: so I guess zenimax is the reason this took so long huh. bastards.

otnavuskire
09-16-2020, 12:52 PM
so I guess zenimax is the reason this took so long huh. bastards.

What do you want to bet they're also the reason it doesn't look like we're getting downloads with this too?

bgalbraith
09-16-2020, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I'd be inclined to say there are still legal reasons why they can't distribute the tracks digitally. We could also hope that it's just Shopify protecting itself from the deluge that Ghosts V-VI caused and is going to wait until the original rush of orders goes through to start handing out links.

jmtd
09-16-2020, 12:55 PM
The uk price is 160% the us price. Aargh

I wonder how bad Intl shipping is if I bought a lot of stuff

bgalbraith
09-16-2020, 12:59 PM
Also, regarding a group booklet print run, a challenge here I can see already would be shipping. These are meant to be 11"x11", which would be a pain to mail unless it was rolled up, right?

allegate
09-16-2020, 01:00 PM
NINE INCH NAILS' SOUNDTRACK TO THE LEGENDARY FIRST PERSON SHOOTER FROM ID SOFTWARE.

So I've always seen this tagged as a Trent Reznor release, not NIN. Huh.

WorzelG
09-16-2020, 01:03 PM
There was actually a bit about the ill fated Doom 3 soundtrack, that Trent had created hundreds of megs of music but it all fell apart due to crap negotiations with John Malm! Such a shame

otnavuskire
09-16-2020, 01:04 PM
So I've always seen this tagged as a Trent Reznor release, not NIN. Huh.

It was always credited to NIN in the credits to the game.

gorast
09-16-2020, 01:06 PM
Official track titles!

Follow-up on this: I just looked at the wiki and saw that the titles used had been floating around for a while. Specifically, the first title listed on ninwiki for each track (except Quake Theme) were the ones used. Where did those come from? Does anyone know?

MrLobster
09-16-2020, 01:07 PM
So I've always seen this tagged as a Trent Reznor release, not NIN. Huh.

I mean, yes... but also, definitely at the time NIN was Trent Reznor (as per credits) so a case can be made for making it an actual NIN release.

jmtd
09-16-2020, 01:11 PM
From what I remember it was NIN for music and TR for sfx

WorzelG
09-16-2020, 01:19 PM
I don’t understand why Bethesda wouldn’t allow these printed booklets in the package?

mi470
09-16-2020, 01:19 PM
if anyone figures out how to print this booklet, please let me know. i know i'd likely have to take it to FedEx Office or Staples or something, but i have no clue whether or not they'd know how to work with this kind of file.

tricil
09-16-2020, 01:22 PM
Halo 35 maybe? I guess we’ll have to find out when the vinyl gets here.

Tom
09-16-2020, 01:23 PM
Well this news has really brightened up my day!

gorast
09-16-2020, 01:24 PM
A digital download would be great for clearing up the Trent Reznor vs. Nine Inch Nails question.

I've always had it tagged in my library as "Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails" given what jmtd said about the credits. Perfectly non-committal.

I wonder if this would get a Halo number (if it's considered a NIN release) at this point. Would be totally out of sequence. I think it's more likely that it gets absolutely nothing.

kraw
09-16-2020, 01:41 PM
Null 0.5

Leviathant
09-16-2020, 01:59 PM
Anyone here have the means to arrange an ETS funded printing of the essay booklet?

Maybe? I bet I could even take a stab at reinserting the game screenshots, but I sure fucking hate mailing things :|

psus2h
09-16-2020, 02:03 PM
presumably....you could ship these in LP mailers, for less than $4 ea tracked. Probably cheaper since I'd bet it weighs less than a pound all packed up.

MrLobster
09-16-2020, 02:08 PM
Maybe? I bet I could even take a stab at reinserting the game screenshots, but I sure fucking hate mailing things :|

...and that was before all the Post Office fuckery going on.

dlb
09-16-2020, 02:40 PM
I'm not a pro at this but I'm sure people who work at advertising or production agencies/offices should know how to print these as the details are given in the file, no?

And is it really only screenshots that are blurred out? Crazy...

And damnit! I'm pretty broke right now, but I just had to buy TSN and Quake. Fuck this, ehrm, love this! :D

allegate
09-16-2020, 02:46 PM
odds on a Seed0 release this weekend?

eversonpoe
09-16-2020, 02:53 PM
Also, regarding a group booklet print run, a challenge here I can see already would be shipping. These are meant to be 11"x11", which would be a pain to mail unless it was rolled up, right?

i mean TECHNICALLY it's media, so you could throw each assembled booklet into an LP mailer and send them media mail...

@psus2h (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5804) beat me to it ;)

TheBang
09-16-2020, 02:58 PM
It was always credited to NIN in the credits to the game.
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/2310/manuals/QUAKE%20Manual.pdf?t=1572894215

SOUND EFFECTS
Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails

Music Credits
Written by Trent Reznor

mqhanlon
09-16-2020, 03:06 PM
My lingering question: Were these track titles leaked years ago, or did they decide to make some unofficial titles official?

bgalbraith
09-16-2020, 03:07 PM
i mean TECHNICALLY it's media, so you could throw each assembled booklet into an LP mailer and send them media mail...

@psus2h (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5804) beat me to it ;)

Yeah, that looks like it would be the best option for US domestic at least.

psus2h
09-16-2020, 03:09 PM
i mean TECHNICALLY it's media, so you could throw each assembled booklet into an LP mailer and send them media mail...

@psus2h (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5804) beat me to it ;)
depending on the weight, first class mail could be cheaper.

jmtd
09-16-2020, 03:23 PM
My lingering question: Were these track titles leaked years ago, or did they decide to make some unofficial titles official?

Mine too

allegate
09-16-2020, 04:01 PM
My lingering question: Were these track titles leaked years ago, or did they decide to make some unofficial titles official?
Based on the pdf that TheBang linked to above, I'd have to go with leaked.
Titles of Songs or Themes (C) 1996 TVT/Interscope Records. All Rights Reserved.

rd1994
09-16-2020, 04:09 PM
If anybody in the EU is trying to get a booklet printed let me know so I can get one.

fillow
09-16-2020, 04:21 PM
I'm ready for "It is Raped? Always has been" meme

halo eighteen
09-16-2020, 04:26 PM
I'm ready for "It is Raped? Always has been" meme

Yeah, no. The pyramid head one is bad enough. Also the title isn't a question.

otnavuskire
09-16-2020, 04:27 PM
i mean TECHNICALLY it's media, so you could throw each assembled booklet into an LP mailer and send them media mail...

@psus2h (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5804) beat me to it ;)


Yeah, that looks like it would be the best option for US domestic at least.

It wouldn't quite make the standards for media mail because it's not enough pages.

allegate
09-16-2020, 05:04 PM
what are they going to do, open it up and count? :P

Leviathant
09-16-2020, 05:35 PM
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/2310/manuals/QUAKE%20Manual.pdf?t=1572894215

SOUND EFFECTS
Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails

Music Credits
Written by Trent Reznor

It suddenly dawns on me that I don't think I ever bought Quake. I feel good about owning all the software I use now, but as a 16 year old, Qcrack.exe and the Quake shareware disc were an unbelievable combination.

The writing in that manual is... not so great. I'm glad I hadn't seen it before today.

eversonpoe
09-16-2020, 05:42 PM
It suddenly dawns on me that I don't think I ever bought Quake. I feel good about owning all the software I use now, but as a 16 year old, Qcrack.exe and the Quake shareware disc were an unbelievable combination.

The writing in that manual is... not so great. I'm glad I hadn't seen it before today.


Easy: This is meant for little kids and grandmas.
Medium: Most people should start Quake at Medium skill.
Hard: Here at id, we play Hard skill, and we think you should too, once you're ready.

(Nightmare) This is so bad that the entry is hidden, so people won't wander in by accident. Ifyou find it, don't say we didn't warn you.

the story stuff was not very well written, you're right. but this part cracked me up.

ninlive
09-16-2020, 05:42 PM
I want to print a booklet. Hot damn.

Erneuert
09-16-2020, 06:26 PM
Trent told me not to post this but I am not a good listener!

https://www.nin.com/john-carmak-american-mcgee/ (https://www.nin.com/john-carmak-american-mcgee/)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2486/0276/files/QUAKE_essays_SEP15_FIN4_GRACoL_CL.pdf?v=1600226971

What was the first link? It's no longer active.

TR leaking something again? Fill me in, I just saw all this.

Tom
09-16-2020, 06:33 PM
What was the first link? It's no longer active.

TR leaking something again? Fill me in, I just saw all this.
Just the text from the booklet, so if you've seen that then you're not missing anything. Interesting that it came down so quickly though. I wonder if it was planned that way or whether the 'unnamed video game publisher' intervened.

spahn
09-16-2020, 06:33 PM
What was the first link? It's no longer active.

TR leaking something again? Fill me in, I just saw all this.Its basically what's on the 2nd link but in html format, where you can read the booklet material.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

spahn
09-16-2020, 06:38 PM
I want to print a booklet. Hot damn.So now that I've had a chance to digest all of this, is the 2xLP not coming with the booklet like the other DE that were released?

Also, i captured the 1st link in PDF format for posterity. Not going to post it (yet) since I don't know if it was taken down due to issues or just a blip in the system right now.

tricil
09-16-2020, 07:23 PM
So now that I've had a chance to digest all of this, is the 2xLP not coming with the booklet like the other DE that were released?

Also, i captured the 1st link in PDF format for posterity. Not going to post it (yet) since I don't know if it was taken down due to issues or just a blip in the system right now.

Right hence the print-your-own template.

spahn
09-16-2020, 07:30 PM
Right hence the print-your-own template.

Between work and the rush of it all, it kind of just hit me. LOL.

Shit Mirror
09-16-2020, 08:07 PM
"It is raped" is the genuine fucking title?

Wow.

For over 20 years I've been telling people, "No, obviously the track list including the title 'It is raped' is bullshit, why would you think Trent would name a track that?".

I was excited to buy this, but now I'm not sure if there's any point, as I'm obviously not a very good NIN fan for not knowing that 'It is raped" was real all along.



But since 'It is raped' is real... how did people find out those real titles in the first place?

paul_guyet
09-16-2020, 08:33 PM
With regards to everyone wanting booklets...when Deviations 1 came out, I put the .pdf on a thumb drive and went to my local Kinko's/FedEx Office (not sure what the EU/UK equivalent of that is...) and gave them the file. I picked out a sufficiently heavy paper stock and they made something that, to me, felt as close to official as possible. It cost a bit, but that was a lot of pages. I'd recommend that for folks.

Erneuert
09-16-2020, 08:43 PM
"It is raped" is the genuine fucking title?

Wow.

For over 20 years I've been telling people, "No, obviously the track list including the title 'It is raped' is bullshit, why would you think Trent would name a track that?".

I was excited to buy this, but now I'm not sure if there's any point, as I'm obviously not a very good NIN fan for not knowing that 'It is raped" was real all along.



But since 'It is raped' is real... how did people find out those real titles in the first place?

And more importantly, why did it take to September 16, 2020 for TR to confirm them as correct?

piggy
09-16-2020, 09:22 PM
I wonder if the song titles were chosen by id, rather than TR...

Deacon Blackfire
09-16-2020, 10:17 PM
Come now, we can't blame id for the track title being unnecessarily gross.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give something a title like that nowadays but I also imagine he would feel dishonest changing it to something more acceptable for release now. Kind of awkward for me as its probably my favorite track on the record, in my opinion one of the most unsettling and dread-soaked pieces he has produced (if this is the one I thought was called Ziggurat Vertigo anyway), but I'll say this - somehow the word 'It' is the creepiest part of the title. Like, 'He' or 'She', that would be blatantly button-pushing and douchey edgelord status, and I suppose it still is in many ways, but 'It' somehow makes the statement and its context really uncomfortably cryptic. Leaves some disturbing questions hanging in the air. Which is to say that it's a regrettable title but one I'm not surprised less mature Trent (or whoever) would apply to such a disturbing piece.

It's a bit cringey but it still has nothing on 94-95' Trent's ugly, juvenile fixation on that gross ass Patti Smith song Rock N' Roll N*****, resulting in its appearance on the Natural Born Killers soundtrack and as a cover on Manson's Smells Like Children. Speaking of which, I don't know why that title is printed uncensored on the NBK page of the NIN store and the Smells Like Children page of the discography (where Shitty Chicken Gang Bang, Everlasting Cocksucker, and Fuck Frankie are censored but the n-word is just...there), but whoever manages the website should really fucking change that.

In any case, I'm stoked to see this finally get its vinyl release! Hopefully there may be a download card with the record? Maybe? Who knows but it would be nice.

trollmanen
09-16-2020, 10:23 PM
What was the first link? It's no longer active.

TR leaking something again? Fill me in, I just saw all this.

I saw an article in Forbes (seriously) on my Apple News feed about the Quake soundtrack vinyl release, and they actually linked to the article page and the PDF, so I'm guessing that level of exposure wasn't anticipated. The PDF is still up, but the webpage looked like it was an easier read, did anyone save that?

As I'm sure many are, I'm interested in a printed booklet. I would go about making my own, but I'm sure it's more cost effective to make a bunch at once.

Maybe someone could edit the PDF to make a more readable booklet? Crop the printers info, re-order it, and correct the orientation?

allegate
09-16-2020, 10:48 PM
Titles of Songs or Themes (C) 1996 TVT/Interscope Records. All Rights Reserved.

to reiterate what is in the booklet.

bgalbraith
09-16-2020, 11:05 PM
I saw an article in Forbes (seriously) on my Apple News feed about the Quake soundtrack vinyl release, and they actually linked to the article page and the PDF, so I'm guessing that level of exposure wasn't anticipated. The PDF is still up, but the webpage looked like it was an easier read, did anyone save that?

As I'm sure many are, I'm interested in a printed booklet. I would go about making my own, but I'm sure it's more cost effective to make a bunch at once.

Maybe someone could edit the PDF to make a more readable booklet? Crop the printers info, re-order it, and correct the orientation?

The order and orientation are correct for saddle stitch booklet printing - you print on two pieces of paper, front and back, put them together then fold over and staple along the fold. The inverted Carmack essay is so both essays start on the cover and can be read left-to-right, giving them equal weight. Do you want a version that you can easily read in PDF form that is more linear?

poro765
09-16-2020, 11:22 PM
The order and orientation are correct for saddle stitch booklet printing - you print on two pieces of paper, front and back, put them together then fold over and staple along the fold. Do you want a version that you can easily read in PDF form?
I'm not the one you asked, but I'd want that version.
I'll probably never get this printed, so would love to have a user-friendly version so I could read the essay without rotating it every time.

trollmanen
09-16-2020, 11:28 PM
The order and orientation are correct for saddle stitch booklet printing - you print on two pieces of paper, front and back, put them together then fold over and staple along the fold. The inverted Carmack essay is so both essays start on the cover and can be read left-to-right, giving them equal weight. Do you want a version that you can easily read in PDF form that is more linear?

Yes, a more linear version PDF for easier reading on a computer is what I was getting at, I'm sure a lot of folks would find it easier to read, especially since the webpage version is now gone.

I realize the version they created is what a printer would need to manufacture a double sided/stapled booklet, and that it's made to be flipped around.

bgalbraith
09-16-2020, 11:58 PM
I've cropped and reordered the essay booklet for reading as is rather than printing: https://we.tl/t-RTgVNzWcfX

trollmanen
09-17-2020, 12:33 AM
I've cropped and reordered the essay booklet for reading as is rather than printing: https://we.tl/t-RTgVNzWcfX

This is great, thanks!

Shadaloo
09-17-2020, 12:37 AM
Best news I've seen all week.

I'm all for chipping in for a print run if we can make magic happen.

Eat my ass, Zenimax

Pyract
09-17-2020, 01:55 AM
Here's a pdf of the original site version of the essay I had made earlier in the day, if anyone wants it:

http://nindestruct.com/misc/quake_essay_html.pdf

Wulgaren
09-17-2020, 03:46 AM
pretty sure trent and co just used the fan made titles instead of thinking of new ones

Tom
09-17-2020, 03:47 AM
Something I noticed is that the tracks occupy sides A-C, which leaves the second side of the second LP empty. I wonder if it'll have a nice etching of the Quake logo, or something else.

Wulgaren
09-17-2020, 03:52 AM
natural born killers tracklist is censored in the discography section it looks like

Erneuert
09-17-2020, 04:10 AM
natural born killers tracklist is censored in the discography section it looks like

But not in the store section.

TheBang
09-17-2020, 04:17 AM
But since 'It is raped' is real... how did people find out those real titles in the first place?
This is an excellent question. Here is the earliest mention of them that I could find:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.music.nin/c/2mSFCuyar4Y/m/0Zj1YNqO0tMJ

So, did someone at Nothing Studios or id Software submit those titles to the CDDB?


pretty sure trent and co just used the fan made titles instead of thinking of new ones
This is actually the more disturbing possibility. Was kraw working on the artwork, and he was like, "Hey, wait a minute, where are the track titles? Well, let's see what the Internet says..."?

TheBang
09-17-2020, 05:22 AM
Also, regarding a group booklet print run, a challenge here I can see already would be shipping. These are meant to be 11"x11", which would be a pain to mail unless it was rolled up, right?
Hm, not a bad idea. Here are some mailing tubes for $0.60 each: https://www.amazon.com/Aviditi-P2012W-Mailing-Tubes-White/dp/B00BT32MOY/

Here are some possibilities for printing:
https://www.foldfactory.com/offering/saddle-stitch-booklet-printing
https://www.atozmedia.com/standard-print/#product-popup15
https://www.jakprints.com/record-inserts.html

Erneuert
09-17-2020, 05:22 AM
This is an excellent question. Here is the earliest mention of them that I could find:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.music.nin/c/2mSFCuyar4Y/m/0Zj1YNqO0tMJ

So, did someone at Nothing Studios or id Software submit those titles to the CDDB?


This is actually the more disturbing possibility. Was @kraw (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=274) working on the artwork, and he was like, "Hey, wait a minute, where are the track titles? Well, let's see what the Internet says..."?

Doesn’t kraw update the website? Hopefully he can comment.

botley
09-17-2020, 05:51 AM
Something I noticed is that the tracks occupy sides A-C, which leaves the second side of the second LP empty. I wonder if it'll have a nice etching of the Quake logo, or something else.
I'm prepared to be disappointed with a totally blank side (The Vietnam War score's vinyl release, which otherwise is excellent, has one) or else completely surprised with something unexpected and awesome.

muad'nin
09-17-2020, 06:12 AM
I'm prepared to be disappointed with a totally blank side (The Vietnam War score's vinyl release, which otherwise is excellent, has one) or else completely surprised with something unexpected and awesome.

*ponders the idea of Trent going full-circle and releasing a vinyl-playable version of the Quake game as track 11 on side D*

Tom
09-17-2020, 07:31 AM
*ponders the idea of Trent going full-circle and releasing a vinyl-playable version of the Quake game as track 11 on side D*
This is exactly what they should do! I accidentally blasted myself with that track countless times - it's a part of the experience. I'll be disappointed now when it turns out they haven't done this.

rd1994
09-17-2020, 07:32 AM
RE: the song titles

IIRC they were sourced from the CDDB. ANYBODY can post stuff there so it wouldn't surprise me if TR put them there for people to find. Heck I know of a band who posted unused song titles to one of their Albums to CDDB for shits n giggles.

halo eighteen
09-17-2020, 07:35 AM
I'm prepared to be disappointed with a totally blank side (The Vietnam War score's vinyl release, which otherwise is excellent, has one) or else completely surprised with something unexpected and awesome.

I think the expanded PHM reissue also has a blank side D. I kind of prefer etchings to that, but at the same time, a blank vinyl side is really perfect for calibrating the tonearm counterweight!

botley
09-17-2020, 09:54 AM
I think the expanded PHM reissue also has a blank side D.
Yep, Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D and Before the Flood are two other NIN-related vinyl albums with blank sides. I was hoping that they would spread the whole Quake soundtrack over four sides, but I trust there was a good reason not to.

sonic_discord
09-17-2020, 10:08 AM
With regards to everyone wanting booklets...when Deviations 1 came out, I put the .pdf on a thumb drive and went to my local Kinko's/FedEx Office (not sure what the EU/UK equivalent of that is...) and gave them the file. I picked out a sufficiently heavy paper stock and they made something that, to me, felt as close to official as possible. It cost a bit, but that was a lot of pages. I'd recommend that for folks.

If people want to print this thing with bleed and saddle-stitch it to match the other releases, they'd need a larger size than most retail printing shops like FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's) or Office Depot (who merged with OfficeMax) can provide, as the file with bleed included would be a minimum of 22.5"x11.5". The size of the PDF on nin.com is 23"x14.25", so you'd likely need to have them printed at a place that uses a litho/offset printer with 28"x40" press sheets (or something close to that) and print them 3-up. As far as I know, the largest paper size at most retail print shops (and the largest their laser printers can handle) is either 11x17 or 12x18, unless you print on a large-format poster printer, but that's really expensive and often can't do double-sided/duplex printing (even if they could, registration would likely be an issue).

diptych
09-17-2020, 10:25 AM
Looking forward to reading some reviews about this release. Quake was my introduction to NIN. I love that soundtrack, so it would be great to hear how this remaster sounds.

nmitchell86
09-17-2020, 10:43 AM
If there is a group print run of the Quake liner notes, I'm in. Just post the pay link.

sonic_discord
09-17-2020, 11:13 AM
If there is a group print run of the Quake liner notes, I'm in. Just post the pay link.

As long as it comes out to be a reasonable price (<$25), me too!

spahn
09-17-2020, 11:50 AM
If people want to print this thing with bleed and saddle-stitch it to match the other releases, they'd need a larger size than most retail printing shops like FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's) or Office Depot (who merged with OfficeMax) can provide, as the file with bleed included would be a minimum of 22.5"x11.5". The size of the PDF on nin.com is 23"x14.25", so you'd likely need to have them printed at a place that uses a litho/offset printer with 28"x40" press sheets (or something close to that) and print them 3-up. As far as I know, the largest paper size at most retail print shops (and the largest their laser printers can handle) is either 11x17 or 12x18, unless you print on a large-format poster printer, but that's really expensive and often can't do double-sided/duplex printing (even if they could, registration would likely be an issue).

Kinda wish they would tacked on a few extra bucks on the LP and included it.

sonic_discord
09-17-2020, 12:02 PM
Kinda wish they would tacked on a few extra bucks on the LP and included it.

It was Zenimax Media, which acquired id Software back in 2009, who insisted the booklet not be included. My guess is because the end of John Carmack's essay doesn't paint present day id Software in the most positive light.

botley
09-17-2020, 12:08 PM
^ The "unauthorized image" screenshots (even pixel'd out) could have something to do with it, too.