Watchmen

[bobbie solo]

Getting a new series on HBO, with showrunner Damon Lindelof. I still don't trust him after Lost & Prometheus. His passionate letter to the fans yesterday explaining his love for the source material & how the show is going to be set in the Watchmen world in present time with new characters did nothing for my tempered approach to this.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/23/17383826/damon-lindelof-watchmen-remix-original-characters-remake

[Shunt]

Ughh

[botley]

Loved the book HARD, tried to get into the movie a few times and it just got progressively worse on each viewing. Zero expectation that this TV version will be any better. Maybe a fresh approach without reference to the original is a good idea, maybe it'll just be another bloated confusing mess.

[henryeatscereal]

I love the original Graphic Novel and i like the movie, i even have a Watchmen tattoo, you can say i'm a fan!

I don't know what to think of this, at first i thought it could be similar to the "Before Watchmen" miniseries, but now it seems even the creators don't know what the project is about.
I smell a train-wreck, of course i could be wrong (and i hope i am...), but this just seems like an unrelated series with the Watchmen name attached.

[thevoid99]

I'm going to be wary about the series. I don't trust Damon Linedlof either. I have my copy of the graphic novel as it's one of my favorite purchases.

[october_midnight]

HBO liked what they saw from the pilot...officially greenlit as a series to premiere in 2019. (https://comicbook.com/dc/2018/08/17/watchmen-tv-hbo-series-order-dc-damon-lindelof/)

[neorev]

Fuck yeah!!!!!
http://i.imgur.com/ENcuO0I.jpg
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn9QsXRgBgo/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=lie6xziy355m

Please see thread in TR&AR score section.

[bobbie solo]

Great now I kinda have to watch whether Damon fucks it up or not.

[onthewall2983]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zymgtV99Rko

I know this was shared over in the other thread (twice!) but worth sharing it here so we can keep this thread alive a little so we can keep spoilers out of the other one hopefully.

Don Johnson looks good in this. Been getting a lot more high-profile stuff lately. Glad he's doing something a little more left-of-center than previous TV gigs he had.

[henryeatscereal]

Hate to sound like Alan Moore, but i'm not feeling this at all...

[onthewall2983]

I have faith in Lindelof after The Leftovers.

[neorev]

I have faith in Lindelof after The Leftovers.

Agreed. I love The Leftovers!

[onthewall2983]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKq1PRvPJQ

[onthewall2983]

Robert Redford to play President Robert Redford (https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/26/robert-redford-to-play-president-robert-redford-in-hbos-watchmen)

[marodi]

Robert Redford to play President Robert Redford (https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/26/robert-redford-to-play-president-robert-redford-in-hbos-watchmen)

Why can't he be President Robert Redford in real life?

[onthewall2983]

We might find out why

[onthewall2983]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVK1-1vwAzE

[onthewall2983]

First episode was good. I'm surprised at how much action there was just to start off with. I imagine this could change as the show goes on, but I didn't think it would start off with quite the bang.

[Kodiak33]

I was super impressed with the first episode, can't wait for the rest.

[bobbie solo]

First episode was good. I'm surprised at how much action there was just to start off with. I imagine this could change as the show goes on, but I didn't think it would start off with quite the bang.

Prolly knew they needed to hook people in considering how big this is getting pushed.

[onthewall2983]

Could one of the admins perhaps pin this thread? As to keep this purely about the show and plot-specific talk separate from the other thread?

[Wretchedest]

After this second episode does it seem possible that Jeremy Irons is actually playing Dr. Manhattan? There were a few allusions in this episode about him being able to change form, and some of the stuff going on with Irons' character could be explained if he was actually Dr. Manhattan. As far as I remember from the book, Ozymandias wouldn't have any way of knowing all of the finer details of Manhattans origin...

[Wretchedest]

After this second episode does it seem possible that Jeremy Irons is actually playing Dr. Manhattan? There were a few allusions in this episode about him being able to change form, and some of the stuff going on with Irons' character could be explained if he was actually Dr. Manhattan. As far as I remember from the book, Ozymandias wouldn't have any way of knowing all of the finer details of Manhattans origin...


Also, while I'm loving this show, I'm concerned it's becoming a little twisty for no other reason than for the sake of twistiness.

[elevenism]

i'm about to watch episode 2; loved episode 1.

I also recently read the original material, which is only the second comic i've ever read, the other being the walking dead, since trying archie as a kid and deciding that comics weren't for me.
And GOOD GOD, Watchmen fucking blew my mind. I was SO moved by it, intellectually. I'm STILL thinking about it, and i read it before watching episode 1. I really liked the movie, but, after seeing the original material, i understand why comic fans didn't. There wasn't quite enough there to capture the full spirit of the thing.

One thing that freaked me out about episode one: that massacre- the Tulsa massacre- at the beginning, really happened. Having lived my whole life in Dallas/Fort Worth, or up in the Panhandle, i can't believe i'd never heard of it. We damn sure didn't learn about it in history class.
It was the "single worst incident of racial violence in american history," perpetrated against the "wealthiest black community in the United States:" an area of Tulsa, which was called Black Wall Street. I thought that scene was part of the alternate history thing.
I guess they've done a good job of burying THAT shit.

[eversonpoe]

i'm about to watch episode 2; loved episode 1.

I also recently read the original material, which is only the second comic i've ever read, the other being the walking dead, since trying archie as a kid and deciding that comics weren't for me.
And GOOD GOD, Watchmen fucking blew my mind. I was SO moved by it, intellectually. I'm STILL thinking about it, and i read it before watching episode 1. I really liked the movie, but, after seeing the original material, i understand why comic fans didn't. There wasn't quite enough there to capture the full spirit of the thing.

One thing that freaked me out about episode one: that massacre- the Tulsa massacre- at the beginning, really happened. Having lived my whole life in Dallas/Fort Worth, or up in the Panhandle, i can't believe i'd never heard of it. We damn sure didn't learn about it in history class.
It was the "single worst incident of racial violence in american history," perpetrated against the "wealthiest black community in the United States:" an area of Tulsa, which was called Black Wall Street. I thought that scene was part of the alternate history thing.
I guess they've done a good job of burying THAT shit.

we've been talking about it in the score thread, but yeah, the massacre was covered up until about 15 or so years ago when it really started to come to light in the public. i'm so glad that they opened the show with it and brought some (much-needed) attention to it.

[cdm]

Has anyone called the phone number from Ep 2?

[marodi]

After this second episode does it seem possible that Jeremy Irons is actually playing Dr. Manhattan? There were a few allusions in this episode about him being able to change form, and some of the stuff going on with Irons' character could be explained if he was actually Dr. Manhattan. As far as I remember from the book, Ozymandias wouldn't have any way of knowing all of the finer details of Manhattans origin...


Also, while I'm loving this show, I'm concerned it's becoming a little twisty for no other reason than for the sake of twistiness.

He definitely is Ozymandias. His disregard for human life, having his servants call him "master", it all screams Adrian Veidt. And his horse's name is Bucephalus, the only fitting name for someone who thinks of himself as another Alexander the Great

I never expected to like this as much as I do but this show is amazing.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Two episodes deep now and this show is still so much better than I ever thought it would, or could, be. I might have liked episode 2 even more than the pilot. It's well-written and nuanced in ways that remind me of the source material, which is something I never thought I would say. The constant but seamless world-building, the wide array of genuinely compelling characters, the pervading aura of dread and conspiracy...it is in many respects an incredibly faithful follow-up, and yet has also (necessarily) forged an identity and purpose all its own. The way this episode made in-universe fiction part of its content in the "American Hero Story" segment reminded me a great deal of some of the narrative devices in the original, while also seeming like a hilarious riff on Snyder's gratuitously violent version, and the whole sequence with almost-certainly-Ozymandias directing The Watchmaker's Son adaptation of Dr. Manhattan's origin and blithely incinerating one of his clones (or something) was spectacular. It's faithful to the density of the comic and there's so much to unpack per episode - the exact opposite of binge television and I love it. Naturally, Trent & Atticus bring it and match the quality. Hoping it stays this strong!

[fillow]

Do we know if this was planned as a single-season show, or is it going to have more seasons?

[cdm]

Behind the scenes type explainer on the Looking Glass mask > https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/10/28/20928667/watchmen-hbo-costume-looking-glass-mask [spoiler free]

[buckaroo]

Do we know if this was planned as a single-season show, or is it going to have more seasons?

From interviews with Lindelof it seems like this was planned as a single season from his point of view (complete story told this season). However, I would not be surprised if the popularity of the series resulted in additional seasons.

[Balthier]

This is some serious race baiting. I'm not from the US and not progressive or concerned about US politics so it's practically unwatchable to me. I do like Zack's movie and the 30 minutes I watched of the series made me want to watch the movie again. Bring on the downvotes, as always. Hooray for tolerance for different opinions! :)

[Swykk]

This is some serious race baiting. I'm not from the US and not progressive or concerned about US politics so it's practically unwatchable to me. I do like Zack's movie and the 30 minutes I watched of the series made me want to watch the movie again. Bring on the downvotes, as always. Hooray for tolerance for different opinions! :)

Your opinion is dated and shitty. It also harms others and is inherently wrong. Fuck your “opinion.” Nobody is making you watch or comment.

Anyway, who do you guys think is helping “Reeves?” And is that Dan seen leaping off that balcony in the teaser for next week?

[Balthier]

Fuck your opinion.


You're so tolerant. Why did you use quotation marks by the way? How can my opinion be wrong? Is that a sign of left-wing tolerance? It looks like one. Well, since you want a mature discussion. Fuck your opinion too. And your mom is ugly!

[cdm]

Friendly reminder: don't sleep on that Ignore function.

[Haysey_Draws]

The only baiting going on here isn't from the show...

[Morad]

This is some serious race baiting. I'm not from the US and not progressive or concerned about US politics so it's practically unwatchable to me. I do like Zack's movie and the 30 minutes I watched of the series made me want to watch the movie again. Bring on the downvotes, as always. Hooray for tolerance for different opinions! :)


To be honest, I'm not American either and I felt the same during the first episode, but I trusted Lindelof enough (after the Leftovers) to give him a benefit of a doubt not to play into the binaries of American politics. The second episode, as well as the incredible ARG they have going on at at Peteypedia (https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia), made me realize that it's much more nuanced than that. It's more faithful to the novel than Snyder's film could have even dreamed of.

Yes, the show is set in a very liberal context, with Redford at the helm, but the more you watch, the more you realize how his extreme left-wingism is just as dangerous as the dangerous conservatism of today. Rorschach's journal is being treated as a hoax by the show's left-wing characters and as gospel by the right-wingers; both of whom are distorting the truth based on ideology: the left wants to "protect" the populace by lying to them, while the right are purposefully misrepresenting the book and Rorschach's ideology so as to go forward with their own hateful tendencies.

No one is right in a way, because in this world (like Alan Moore's world, or even Lindelof's own Leftovers world), there really is no right or wrong, no truth in any manner of speaking. Everything is just painted in many shades of grey.

When Regina King's character tells the boy in the last episode that "We know that the world is just black and white," you can tell that it's not supposed to stand in as a "truth" being told to the audience. Rather, it's the opinion of an extremely violent individual – who wears a mask no different than the Rorschach imitators or the mad and mentally ill Watchmen before her – trying to justify both her own imposed violence (and that of the world surrounding them) to the boy, in incorrect terms.

So far, the show has been impeccable in using the current political climate (a theme I often roll my eyes at while watching films or television in the past few years) in crafting a very intricate and complex narrative. I think we've been so conditioned to recent American shows often having an agenda, that we can't see past a show that is reflecting all agendas thoughtfully and impartially, while also having something to say.

Also, it bears remembering that even Adrian Veidt (as we see in the ARG too) was one of the heroes of the liberal cause: and yet, he was the same man that triggered a giant squid attack to murder thousands of people in the name of his ideology. While one side of the political binary don't give humans agency and want to decide the way of the worlds based on their own higher-than-thou virtues (Veidt for example), the other side of the binary (the Rorschach imitators/Kavalry) believe in unfiltered, unbridled agency, where instincts rule over the cult's actions, be it hateful or murderous. And then we look back at Veidt: a man, presumed dead, alone in his castle murdering clones brutally. We know he has no moral compass, and yet, he does have a sense for "justice" with his intricate plans, one that he is in the process of hatching as we watch. What, then, the show asks us, is the difference between these two binaries? One virtuous, the other spiteful, and yet both have little care for humankind beyond humanity as just an idea.

And we also see callbacks to the original novel, linking new character's to the old. Blood on the Judd's badge reminds us that he is an extension of the Comedian, a man with no stance at all, a man who treats everything as deterministic, who represents within himself all the complexities of a non-ideologized individual. The Comedian, in the original book, was a rapist, a murderer, an assassin... and yet, to some degree, his stance was undeniable: Nothing matters, so go with it, make the best of it, and suffer through the sham the best you can. It's all a joke anyway. And that is a stance that the ideologized of the book or the show were unable to understand: they believe in "justice," and would do anything to achieve it, even if it meant slaying as violently as the Comedian slew – but justifying it because they had "the good of all" in mind. And yet, all these Watchmen were, always, was sick, ill, and lonely. Ideology, like the masks they wore, were meant to dress and disguise this loneliness. And we see the same in TV Watchmen.

These characters, married as they are to their binary ideologies, are using justice as a means to compensate for something lacking within themselves. Just as the characters in Leftovers used mourning as an excuse to be myopic and selfish. And the same with the Watchmen book.

The show, in this way, really has a sense of "history" – both literary and political, which makes for an absolutely engrossing, challenging watch. After all, no show for the past while has made me overanalyze, assess, (and waste time over writing this!) like this show has in a long, long time.

[eversonpoe]

This is some serious race baiting. I'm not from the US and not progressive or concerned about US politics so it's practically unwatchable to me. I do like Zack's movie and the 30 minutes I watched of the series made me want to watch the movie again. Bring on the downvotes, as always. Hooray for tolerance for different opinions! :)

having an opinion is fine, but one that is rooted in ignorance that leads to the perpetuation of harmful stereotypes and negative, real-world consequences for entire groups of people is an opinion that needs to be reexamined.

you're not from the US? cool, racism exists everywhere. you haven't experienced racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia? i envy you. but just because something doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people, and it definitely doesn't mean it's not worth having a conversation about, or having art focus on it to hopefully break down the unfair biases that people have in an effort to help institute change.

the fact that people in this country didn't know about the Tulsa Massacre (yes, it's a real thing that happened)—partially because of the fact that it was literally covered up until less than 20 years ago—is proof in itself that the show is on the right page in bringing this shit to the forefront.

also, if you're gonna come into a thread literally challenging people to get pissed off at you, what's the point? do you really revel in being a dick that much? why not try to have a productive, insightful conversation with someone instead of instigating shit?

[neorev]

This is some serious race baiting. I'm not from the US and not progressive or concerned about US politics so it's practically unwatchable to me. I do like Zack's movie and the 30 minutes I watched of the series made me want to watch the movie again. Bring on the downvotes, as always. Hooray for tolerance for different opinions! :)


you're not from the US? cool, racism exists everywhere. you haven't experienced racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia? i envy you. but just because something doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people, and it definitely doesn't mean it's not worth having a conversation about, or having art focus on it to hopefully break down the unfair biases that people have in an effort to help institute change.

I remember back when I was in high school, I went to the local fair with my friend D (who is black and we will call him D) and my friend Nick and his mom and little brother. We were having fun all night, going on rides together, joking and laughing. We were there for maybe 45 minutes when as we're walking to the next ride, 2 cops stopped us. They began interrogating my friend D because apparently something happened at the fair and I'm guessing it may have involved a black man. But they were trying to pin it on my friend who never left our side that night. My friend's mom stepped in front of D and went off on the cop saying how he has never left her side. The scene was enough to make them walk away. But after that, we left the fair because the fun was ruined and I remember D going from a happy kid at a fair to sitting silently as we drove home.

The next year, another high school kid said he got jumped over by our school. He was known as a douchebag wannabe thug. He was white and his father was a police officer. He was also known of being a racist piece of shit. He claimed a black kid jumped him and pulled out a knife on him. At that time, my friend D was at the school football game with friends. Even with numerous people saying he was there at the game and had no knife on him, he was arrested and eventually charged for the attack.

He went away to juvie for a year. My friend Nick, myself, and, Nick's family went to go get D when he came out. He never had a great family of his own. He lives with his grandmother who could barely act like she gave a shit about him. So he usually stayed with Nick or I. But I remember when he got out and we were hanging out again, laughing and joking around like how we normally did, but you could feel something was off. He stopped us out of nowhere and was like, "I have to ask this, but do you believe I did what they said?" My instant reaction, "I know you. Of course not." He seemed to feel better after that.

Does racism exist? Yes, I learned it all the way back in high school that it exists. You haven't experienced any of this kind of bullshit? Well then, you are one lucky person. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

The fact that the Tulsa incident was pretty much scrubbed from history books is enough to show you what it is like here in the US.

[elevenism]

Has anyone called the phone number from Ep 2?
i did, and got a "your call cannot be completed as dialed" message. :/

edit: fun fact

i tried to call the number on the van in the NIN/Hanna Montana episode of Black Mirror, and it was a phone sex line: an actual, real phone sex line- not some sort of "wink wink" thing created by the show.

at least the Watchmen number wasn't THAT.

[cdm]

i did, and got a "your call cannot be completed as dialed" message. :/

edit: fun fact

i tried to call the number on the van in the NIN/Hanna Montana episode of Black Mirror, and it was a phone sex line: an actual, real phone sex line- not some sort of "wink wink" thing created by the show.

at least the Watchmen number wasn't THAT.

LOL thank you for your service.

[Haysey_Draws]

i did, and got a "your call cannot be completed as dialed" message. :/

edit: fun fact

i tried to call the number on the van in the NIN/Hanna Montana episode of Black Mirror, and it was a phone sex line: an actual, real phone sex line- not some sort of "wink wink" thing created by the show.

at least the Watchmen number wasn't THAT.

WOW. You'd think someone on the show would have checked that lol

[Substance242]

Content: incomprehensible, boring.
Music: good, generic, uninspired.
Pass.

[neorev]

Content: incomprehensible, boring.
Music: good, generic, uninspired.
Pass.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c37efdf19824e5fd2a946cf70818f09a/tenor.gif?itemid=4383035

[onthewall2983]

And here I was worried about keeping the threads separate...

[cdm]

Well that ep was…eventful. And the Easter eggs, specifically the piece of art in her apartment and the related cinematography. This series is so good visually.

[richardp]

Jesus the writing on this show is so fluid with the writing in the graphic novel that sometimes I feel like this series is being written by Alan Moore. I can't quit gushing about how fucking good it is.

[Wretchedest]

This recent episode was the first that I was cool on. I wasn't crazy about the characterization of Laurie. Also I feel like the trendy story telling device of mystery and omission for the sake of themselves is a bit of a burden on this show, these things not fundamentally condusive to watchmen, not really a story about twists.

That said I do really appreciate how thoroughly the show incorporates the original story.

[onthewall2983]

I watched the movie once almost 10 years ago now, and never read the book. I honestly feel like even if I never saw the movie I'd still be into what this show is achieving.

[cdm]

FYI: the Peteypedia (https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia) has been updated.

[Alpha 60]

On the campus I work at someone had written in chalk or spray chalk "Tik-Tok" and also "download Tik Tok" - i have nothing to do with this-it is not something i am trying to promote in a fake way-it probably has nothing to do with anything or just something local. But still curious.

[onthewall2983]

lol Tik Tok is an app, that has nothing to do with the show

[marodi]

I could watch Jeremy Irons throw a foul mouth tantrum for hous. And dear God Jean Smart is pure love, as always.

So I guess the car was the brick?

[cdm]

So I guess the car was the brick?

I took that to be a happy coincidence / tying ep 2-3 together / relief valve for the Burke character's stress level.

[Alpha 60]

Haha-yeah that is what I figured-it was startling to just see the "Tik-Tok" by itself-and at first thought it was something not good-as in not releated to Watchmen but someone just borrowing from the show promoting something bad-farther up the sidwalk is where is said "download" but definitely caught my attention-should have just looked it up quick before i posted-but probably still would have posted because of my initial shock-haha

[imail724]

So in this universe the internet was never invented I suppose, correct?

[richardp]

So in this universe the internet was never invented I suppose, correct?

After the events of the Squid in the 80s, America disposed of all electronics and internet and all that shit fearing that they were the cause for the Squid attack. So in a way, yes and no. The internet is there, but civilians don't really use it.

[imail724]

After the events of the Squid in the 80s, America disposed of all electronics and internet and all that shit fearing that they were the cause for the Squid attack. So in a way, yes and no. The internet is there, but civilians don't really use it.
Ah that makes sense. I haven't read the book in a few years so my memory is fuzzy. Definitely going to need to do a re-read sometime soon. Why do people think electronics caused the squid?

[richardp]

Ah that makes sense. I haven't read the book in a few years so my memory is fuzzy. Definitely going to need to do a re-read sometime soon. Why do people think electronics caused the squid?

I believe after it was all over, Veidt mislead the public by making them think the excessive use of technology was to blame for "opening the portal" that allowed the Squid in. It was either Veidt or the Government. But the public was mislead to believe this.

[eversonpoe]

jean smart is a fucking goddess, i love her in everything i've ever seen her in.

watched episodes 2 & 3 back to back today and it was very satisfying. this show is doing every single thing i want it to do.

[elevenism]

this show is doing every single thing i want it to do.
Agreed.
And I didn't even know what I wanted it to do, aside from capturing the philosophy of the book!

It's SO good.

[elevenism]

So has Veidt/Ozy been imprisoned by Dr Manhattan? And, is his estate/prison in another dimension, or, in space, perhaps?

[Kodiak33]

The podcast with Lindelof is fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiN5pR0nS80

Don't listen to this until after Ep 3.

[sonic_discord]

So has Veidt/Ozy been imprisoned by Dr Manhattan?

That was my take-away as well.

[elevenism]

I feel like the idea that this show would really work without SOME knowledge of the source material is a bit disingenuous.

[eversonpoe]

I feel like the idea that this show would really work without SOME knowledge of the source material is a bit disingenuous.

my best friend is watching it, has not read the comic or seen the film, and is loving it. i think it's probably nice to know stuff about the backstory, but it's not necessary to enjoy the story as-is.

[sonic_discord]

It's certainly FAR more rewarding for those of us who are aware of the source material and even Zack Snyder's movie, but I can see how the uninitiated could still enjoy this for what it is (because it's awesome).

[Volband]

Does this show get good? Just finished ep. 1 and it was a mixed bag of good and bad. The good is that it's totally random, doesn't take itself seriously with its simple story, artsy world and cinematography, goofy dialogue, and overall everything is so over the top, that it's hard to critique, because it's obviously meant this way.

That being said, they could have at least build up one character I should care about. The ending was coming from a mile away, the Nun is cool, but not much else, her boytoy is ripped, and that's everything about him. Probably the old wheel-chair guy was the only one I was actually excited about, even after his brief scene at the middle of the episode. The plot is extremely weak. These hidden police identities requires bigger suspension of disbelief than any random sci-fi you can watch, and the moral of the story so far is that white people are dumb and racists, and being controlled by an even more comical, dumber and racist old guy. Yes, I think my extreme skills of being able to read between the lines helped me unveil this hidden message of the show.

Aside from the troll wheelchair guy, the police briefing scene was the only thing that gave me hope for this show's future. Interesting world, funny characters, and potentially interesting background stories. What's not to like about a police panda telling his commander that he's making a mistake? I'd like more from that, and less from "look at these dumb fucking southern racists".

[sonic_discord]

Does this show get good? Just finished ep. 1 and it was a mixed bag of good and bad. The good is that it's totally random, doesn't take itself seriously with its simple story, artsy world and cinematography, goofy dialogue, and overall everything is so over the top, that it's hard to critique, because it's obviously meant this way.

That being said, they could have at least build up one character I should care about. The ending was coming from a mile away, the Nun is cool, but not much else, her boytoy is ripped, and that's everything about him. Probably the old wheel-chair guy was the only one I was actually excited about, even after his brief scene at the middle of the episode.

In my opinion, the second episode is the best of the three that have aired so far, but the world-building in this show is fantastic so far and there's a ton of potential.


The plot is extremely weak.

I disagree. It seems simple at first glance. Until more details are revealed and things begin to become more complicated that they first appeared to be. I love the direction the show is going so far. I'd suggest at least watching the next two episodes before bailing.


These hidden police identities requires bigger suspension of disbelief than any random sci-fi you can watch, and the moral of the story so far is that white people are dumb and racists, and being controlled by an even more comical, dumber and racist old guy. Yes, I think my extreme skills of being able to read between the lines helped me unveil this hidden message of the show. Aside from the troll wheelchair guy, the police briefing scene was the only thing that gave me hope for this show's future. Interesting world, funny characters, and potentially interesting background stories. What's not to like about a police panda telling his commander that he's making a mistake? I'd like more from that, and less from "look at these dumb fucking southern racists".

Maybe watch more than one episode before you draw drastic conclusions like this? And if there is a race-related message the show's trying to get across, it's not "look at these dumb fucking southern racists," but instead "look at how fucking dumb racism is." Would it really be such a bad thing if the show tries to show people how dumb racism is?

[cdm]

Would it really such a bad thing if the show tries to show people how dumb racism is?

To some, yes.

[Volband]

sonic_discord

A'ight, I'll give this some more chance then.

[cdm]

@sonic_discord (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5436)

A'ight, I'll give this some more chance then.

Yeah do it. At this point, even three episodes in, there are supposed to be far more questions than answers.

[Volband]

My biggest surprise was the lack of abilities. I haven't seen or read any Watchmen before, and all episode long I was waiting for some super stuff, but it was just Manhattan dude doing something on Mars.

[sonic_discord]

My biggest surprise was the lack of abilities. I haven't seen or read any Watchmen before, and all episode long I was waiting for some super stuff, but it was just Manhattan dude doing something on Mars.

Well, you can check that expectation at the door. The only character with any actual superpowers is Dr. Manhattan and he is currently only being alluded to (aside from a very brief appearance on TV). This isn't a show you watch for the typical superhero-type stuff.

[Jord]

I've been heavily enjoying this so far, I've liked each episode more than the last so that's good.

Would I be somewhere near correct in saying that this is in effect a sequel to the movie set some years after those events? That's how I've been thinking about it as I'm watching and stuff seems to make sense.

[neorev]

I've been heavily enjoying this so far, I've liked each episode more than the last so that's good.

Would I be somewhere near correct in saying that this is in effect a sequel to the movie set some years after those events? That's how I've been thinking about it as I'm watching and stuff seems to make sense.

Well, it's a sequel to the comic, but you can view it somewhat as a sequel to the movie. The major issue being a certain major event was altered from the comic and did not happen in the movie. The movie used a massive nuclear type event as the reason humanity united. Besides that, for the most part, it does work as a sequel.

[eversonpoe]

just watched episode 4. i am so intrigued and so excited for this to continue.

more great music (duh) in this episode, too!

[richardp]

This week's Peteypedia files are pretty great if you haven't looked at them yet.

[eversonpoe]

This week's Peteypedia files are pretty great if you haven't looked at them yet.

yeah, they're both fantastic, but the second one really...i just can't stop laughing.

[elevenism]

Is Carl like, a version of Dr. Manhattan, or, is he just sort of displaying some of his characteristics as a parallel?

[eversonpoe]

Is Carl like, a version of Dr. Manhattan, or, is he just sort of displaying some of his characteristics as a parallel?

who is carl??? as far as i know there hasn't been anyone on the show with that name...

[imail724]

who is carl??? as far as i know there hasn't been anyone on the show with that name...
I assume he means Cal, who is Angela's husband. Not sure what he has to do with Doc Manhattan though...

[eversonpoe]

I assume he means Cal, who is Angela's husband. Not sure what he has to do with Doc Manhattan though...

yeah i mean other than being bald and having a ripped bod, i don't really see any parallels. he simply believes in science and telling the truth ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[onthewall2983]

This week's Peteypedia files are pretty great if you haven't looked at them yet.

Am I the only one who thought Petey was the guy in the silver outfit?

[eversonpoe]

Am I the only one who thought Petey was the guy in the silver outfit?

HOLY SHIT i think you might be right

• obsessed with costumed vigilante history
• super tall and skinny
• would totally be awkwardly embarrassed by the nickname "lube man"

[StockAvuryah]

Well this is getting better and better.

I know absolutely nothing about Watchmen apart from some fragments, but it's intriguing.

That slippery silver superhero was hilarious. And the way those "people" are made, horrifying.

edit : can't write shit

[bobbie solo]

Dying to know what fell to earth in that couple's farm field. And why is the asian lady building that thing!

Long live Lube Man!

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LawfulDeliriousAiredale-size_restricted.gif

[elevenism]

who is carl??? as far as i know there hasn't been anyone on the show with that name...
i meant to type Cal, yes.

it was just a thought, just having to do with his demeanor, the fact that we still don't know how his wife survived the White Night, and Agent Blake saying that her ex is "no Cal."

just a thought. it's probably not right, but this show is nuts, and i have no idea where it's going.

i'll tell you one thing, though: there's definitely going to be SOMETHING about him, i think, that we aren't seeing yet.

[onthewall2983]

HOLY SHIT i think you might be right

• obsessed with costumed vigilante history
• super tall and skinny
• would totally be awkwardly embarrassed by the nickname "lube man"

We'd all be embarrassed by that name.

Him following Sister Knight around is what tipped me off.

[marodi]

Who else is thinking that the "jailer" of Ozymandias is either Dr Manhattan or Lady Trieu?

And we need more Lube Man.

[sonic_discord]

Who else is thinking that the "jailer" of Ozymandias is either Dr Manhattan or Lady Trieu?

And we need more Lube Man.

I was all but certain that it was Dr. Manhattan until that last episode where I began to think that it may be Lady Trieu, or possibly some combination of both or the two of them working in tandem. First, they establish that she can create humans (the couple she gave a son in exchange for their house & land), then Veidt tells his clone assistants that while he is their master, he did not create them. I don't think it's a coincidence that these two pieces of information were doled out in the same episode (unless they're intentionally trying to throw us off). But I also found it very intriguing that Dr. Manhattan was shown building a castle on Mars fairly similar to the castle where Veidt is held captive AND the thing Angela's adopted son, Topher, was building with the "Manhattan Blocks." Then both Topher and Dr. Manhattan destroy the structure they've built. I see a lot of parallels, but I don't quite know what they mean yet...

[eversonpoe]

has anyone noticed that in the "rorschach's journal" memo on peteypedia, the name Deschaines is mentioned?


...the E.B.D.E. was a sophisticated suicide bomb built from material cloned from the stolenbrain of a dead psychic named Robert Deschaines...

perhaps (very likely) related to Chris Deschaines of Sons Of Pale Horse?

[Conan The Barbarian]

I really love this show.

But I am confused as why white supremacy is associated with Rorschach.

[botley]

^ The Sons of Pale Horse liner notes essay that comes with the first soundtrack volume, and particularly this supplemental file (https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/01/rorschachs-journal-memo.pdf) from the world of the show (http://hbo.com/peteypedia), explains just how that happened. Essentially, Rorschach's journal gets published and taken up by conspiracy theorists as a symbol of anti-government sentiment that, in the wake of Redford's election, turns into a toxic far-right backlash, which births the Seventh Kavalry.


has anyone noticed that in the "rorschach's journal" memo on peteypedia, the name Deschaines is mentioned?



perhaps (very likely) related to Chris Deschaines of Sons Of Pale Horse?
Yes, I think the liner notes (someone finally uploaded them all (https://imgur.com/gallery/Boxe3es)...) also mention that they're cousins.

[richardp]

the squiiiiiid!!!!!!!

[Wretchedest]

the squiiiiiid!!!!!!!
definitely the big geek out moment of this show so far. The one thing we were always so sure we'd never see[

[thelastdisciple]

So there was a Pale Horse movie and it's an alternate take on Schindler's List. Interesting!

[onthewall2983]

the squiiiiiid!!!!!!!

I got major Stranger Things vibes from the reveal

[Toadflax]

What an episode! For something that started off like a character side story, I was impressed with how much it brought all of the narrative elements of the whole show together.

[eversonpoe]

What an episode! For something that started off like a character side story, I was impressed with how much it brought all of the narrative elements of the whole show together.

for real. i am very interested to see what the implications of his actions will be. tim blake nelson deserves a fucking emmy. (side note, had no idea he directed several films including O, the modern adaptation of othello)

and i think we can all agree, he got "another kick in the balls," amirite?

[Toadflax]

tim blake nelson deserves a fucking emmy. (side note, had no idea he directed several films including O, the modern adaptation of othello)

This is the only one of his I've seen, but it's a fun one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83AbvPYqIko

[Wretchedest]

I hope Looking Glass finds some redemption, he's been my favorite, but this is Watchmen so I'm not optimistic lol

[bobbie solo]

loved the symmetry of the episode. he was the sucker at the beginning, and got played for the sucker again at the end.

[botley]

Episode five is nucking futs and I loved it. C'mon... what moon was that Veidt shot himself to, Phobos? The way that the Kavalry played their hand to capture Looking Glass and get him into the 'redpill' chair... fuck, what a tightly executed, brilliant episode.

[cdm]

loved the symmetry of the episode. he was the suvker at the beginning, and got played for the sucker again at the end.

Poor Wade. “Another kick in the balls coming up.”

[eversonpoe]

He did find redemption. Angela has been wrong, she's been lying. He learned the truth about his past. I don't thinks are as black and white as seventh Calvary bad/police,FBI. Good. I think there is a deeper thing at play. Perhaps that redemption you seek for looking Glass will come for the seventh Calvary? Maybe they're not racist and the media in universe is lying? Maybe the cops deserved the white knight? Who knows, I just know it won't be black and white. Good episode though, really good!

it's Seventh Kavalry (not cavalry or calvary) because it's a direct reference to the Klan. in the video they sent to the cops, they made it pretty clear that they're racist. i'm not saying the cops in that world are just "good guys" and, yes, angela should have come clean about what happened. but i don't want LG joining up with some racist fuckwads just because they were right about one thing.

anyway, peteypedia's entries this week are great!

[❤️ Digital Villain ❤️]

it's Seventh Kavalry (not cavalry or calvary) because it's a direct reference to the Klan. in the video they sent to the cops, they made it pretty clear that they're racist. i'm not saying the cops in that world are just "good guys" and, yes, angela should have come clean about what happened. but i don't want LG joining up with some racist fuckwads just because they were right about one thing.

anyway, peteypedia's entries this week are great!

There were good people on both sides

[eversonpoe]

There were good people on both sides

...that's a fucking joke, right?

[botley]

it's Seventh Kavalry (not cavalry or calvary) because it's a direct reference to the Klan. in the video they sent to the cops, they made it pretty clear that they're racist. i'm not saying the cops in that world are just "good guys" and, yes, angela should have come clean about what happened. but i don't want LG joining up with some racist fuckwads just because they were right about one thing.

anyway, peteypedia's entries this week are great!
LG isn't joining the Kavalry, he just let his guard down in a vulnerable moment and the Veidt revelation made him question the whole basis of his assumptions to that point. It's so telling that he's supposed to be able to always root out when people are lying, yet he's been taken in by the Veidt charade this whole time and falls again for a Kavalry ruse to bait him into their trap. Luckily, he already has a whole set of coping mechanisms for his trauma, whereas the largest portion of poverty-wracked Nixonville Kavalry members don't and the racist militia thing fills their need for belonging. I think what the episode brilliantly plays with is the notion that for people with racist tendencies, groups like the Kavalry (and you can name any number of parallel groups in our world) appeal to people who feel like they have nothing else and give them a twisted sense of power in a chaotic world. But they are still under the thumb of the puppet-masters like Senator Keene and Chief Crawford, who are essentially using them as pawns for other ends.

[Deacon Blackfire]

There's a lot to say about that last, stellar episode, and several of you have already done a better job of it than I would have, but I just have to say, this show has done masterfully creating a world that feels as dense and lived-in and unsettling as the world of the original comic. The Peteypedia documents emulating the prose sections at the end of each issue are a great touch but really, just the show itself does a remarkable job of pulling you into this alien yet eerily familiar alternate world.

It's easy for it to get lost in the shuffle of so many amazing moments but the scene at the clone-a-pet business where an imperfect recreation of a family's dog is nonchalantly destroyed (that all we see is it being put into a dishwasher-esque compartment and have...something done to it made it way more disturbing and really emphasizes the relaxed cruelty) was a memorable and horrifying literalization of one of the show's (and comic's) enduring themes, life that exists only to serve the obscene will of forces beyond its reach or comprehension. Like the squids, a race of canon fodder created to further an agenda, and all those who died on 11/2, their lives reduced to little more than a statistic to further Veidt's designs.

[marodi]

Episode five is nucking futs and I loved it. C'mon... what moon was that Veidt shot himself to, Phobos? The way that the Kavalry played their hand to capture Looking Glass and get him into the 'redpill' chair... fuck, what a tightly executed, brilliant episode.

Ozy is on Europa https://collider.com/watchmen-where-is-adrian-veidt/

Sister Night is in for one hell of a trip down memory lane...

[eversonpoe]

Ozy is on Europa

i had a feeling that was it, but i don't know enough about astronomy to have made an informed guess, it was more of a hunch.

[bobbie solo]

In addition to being on Europa, each episode's scenes with Veidt take place roughly one year apart according to Lindelof.

[eversonpoe]

In addition to being on Europa, each episode's scenes with Veidt take place roughly one year apart according to Lindelof.

i assumed they just gave him a cake every day hahahahaha

[Wretchedest]

Tonight's episode was one for the ages. Probably will stands as one of my favorite episodes of anything ever

[cdm]

Tonight's episode was one for the ages. Probably will stands as one of my favorite episodes of anything ever

After last week's preview I wasn't really looking forward to, and was skeptical of, a flashback episode so soon but FUCK was I wrong. I audibly gasped at least twice. Fantastic piece of storytelling.

[richardp]

I've been calling it all season that Will was Hooded Justice . Such an exciting revelation, and one that is so well written. It changes everything, but in such a great way.

I can't stop gushing about how this series is getting EVERYTHING right.

[thelastdisciple]

I assume I'm not alone in realizing why they happened to use that "Cyclops" hand gesture given recent events?

[ItsChrisRoss]

I assume I'm not alone in realizing why they happened to use that "Cyclops" hand gesture given recent events?

This went over my head, can you explain?


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[thelastdisciple]

This went over my head, can you explain?


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Basically alt-right Internet shit disturbers thought they'd go and use the OK hand sign for their own kicks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/03/ok-sign-gesture-emoji-rightwing-alt-right

[ItsChrisRoss]

Basically alt-right Internet shit disturbers thought they'd go and use the OK hand sign for their own kicks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/03/ok-sign-gesture-emoji-rightwing-alt-right

OH RIGHT. I did hear about this. When he gave the hand signal I didn’t even connect it to that because it’s just so ridiculous. Thank you!


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[Toadflax]

Really loved the new episode. I thought it was weird how much they blatantly pulled the style from Birdman, but it definitely worked!

[eversonpoe]

that was one of the most beautiful and well-crafted episodes of television i've ever watched. hot damn.

[Jord]

This show is just knocking out the park more and more with every new episode for me. It took a couple to take hold but I find myself wishing it was Monday already and I can watch the next one. The last two kind of origin style ones have been incredible.

[fillow]

The latest episode made me wonder when exactly were Will's nostalgia pills produced? Did Lady Tieu and Will made them after Will was taken in car by that flying thing and then planted it before dropping the car back?

[cdm]

The latest episode made me wonder when exactly were Will's nostalgia pills produced? Did Lady Tieu and Will made them after Will was taken in car by that flying thing and then planted it before dropping the car back?

He had them when Angela took him to her bakery at the end of Ep 1 > beginning of Ep 2.

[fillow]

He had them when Angela took him to her bakery at the end of Ep 1 > beginning of Ep 2.
Well then how could she see the hanging then? Perhaps they added a new one to the bottle?

[cdm]

Well then how could she see the hanging then? Perhaps they added a new one to the bottle?

Hmmmmm I don't think he was ever in possession of the pills after Angela took them. They were on the counter and then she took them from the bakery, and eventually gave them to Wade who then gave the bottle to his ex. Unless I'm misremembering I don't think there was opportunity to add pills to the jar. I'd have to go back and rewatch. You bring up a good point though. One possible explanation is that pill was an artificial / fabricated memory...although I'm not sure I subscribe to that theory.

[fillow]

Hmmmmm I don't think he was ever in possession of the pills after Angela took them. They were on the counter and then she took them from the bakery, and eventually gave them to Wade who then gave the bottle to his ex. Unless I'm misremembering I don't think there was opportunity to add pills to the jar. I'd have to go back and rewatch. You bring up a good point though. One possible explanation is that pill was an artificial / fabricated memory...although I'm not sure I subscribe to that theory.
One theory I saw on reddit is that the hanging memories were IV'ed to Angela by Lady Tieu. Make total sense, actually.

[cdm]

One theory I saw on reddit is that the hanging memories were IV'ed to Angela by Lady Tieu. Make total sense, actually.

Just discussed this with a good friend of mine...he agrees with the IV theory.

Edit: Whatever the explanation I really hope it isn't a plot hole. Given the level of detail so far I'm optimistic that it isn't.

[Substance242]

Music: good, generic, uninspired.

Update after "THE WAY IT USED TO BE" - I was wrong, sorry. :^)

[valiantsteed]

I'm kind of shocked that the nin fanbase isn't freaking out about this show more than it seems they are, at least to me. It is an incredible achievement in so many ways. It's just so special. That last episode? Oh man.

Thread only 5 pages? When there is so much to discuss, dissect, analyze? Even with the peteypedia stuff, NIN fans should be eating that shit up. Can't quite understand it.

Also - can we kind of dispense with the spoiler tags in here and if you haven't seen the latest episode, stay out? Maybe that would help encourage things a bit, I don't know.

It's like Lost meets comic book lore with an incredible feeling of relevance and zeitgeist, with it's own unique style and a fucking bad ass score.

I am in love.

[ItsChrisRoss]

Just watched. So is Calvin really...??


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[ltrandazzo]

Just watched. So is Calvin really...??


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yep.

[cdm]

Didn’t someone here say Calvin was? Am I imagining that? And Life On Mars! Fuck.

[ItsChrisRoss]

yep.

I assume they’re going to show how he’s still okay after she beat him with a hammer?


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[richardp]

Well whoever it was that called the shit with Cal back in like Episode 2, pat yourselves on the damn back. What a fucking plot twist. God I love this show.

[marodi]

SHUT THE FUCK UP

That is all.

[sonic_discord]

Is Cal like, a version of Dr. Manhattan, or, is he just sort of displaying some of his characteristics as a parallel?

Way to call it 4 episodes in! I figured there was SOMETHING there, but you hit the nail on the head.

[Wretchedest]

Props, elevenism

[eversonpoe]

that was a fucking powerful episode in a season of powerful episodes. shit.

poor angela. that woman has been through some shit, and then her fucking grandpa shows up and fucks up her life (and fills her head with more horrific memories)? i'd be a mess and a half.

[Wretchedest]

I like how it continues to capitalize on ideas about colonialism, being that in the relationship between Angela and Trieu, Angela sort of represents the colonizer. And one enormous hanging thread here is that whatever Vietnamese freedom fighters killed Angela's family, they probably didn't just go away.

[botley]

I like how it continues to capitalize on ideas about colonialism, being that in the relationship between Angela and Trieu, Angela sort of represents the colonizer. And one enormous hanging thread here is that whatever Vietnamese freedom fighters killed Angela's family, they probably didn't just go away.
Well, yes, that's one side of it. But why did the Vietnam vets (particularly so many African-Americans) choose to settle in Vietnam after it was annexed by America? Racism at home.

[cdm]

And one enormous hanging thread here is that whatever Vietnamese freedom fighters killed Angela's family, they probably didn't just go away.

I didn't interpret this part of the story arc as anything more than origin / character building for young Angela. Sure, maybe this informs subsequent seasons but for now that seemed like a pretty tight explanation as to how Angela was orphaned, adopted, and orphaned again. As well as how she became interested in police work and then adopted Sister Night @botley (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) summed up the colonialism of Vietnam pretty well.

[bobbie solo]

the elephant though.

[bobbie solo]

Safe to say Veidt is who crashed landed on the farm and why Treu bought the land?

[onthewall2983]

Well, yes, that's one side of it. But why did the Vietnam vets (particularly so many African-Americans) choose to settle in Vietnam after it was annexed by America? Racism at home.

This episode made me want to see a whole season of how Vietnam became the 51st state, more culturally than anything else.

[InsectGod]

I fucking love this series and I can't believe there are only two more episodes left. It's only gotten better as it's progressed. I finally read the original graphic novel and it helped round it out for sure. The series can stand alone on it's own. It is so well crafted and executed and the changes they made albeit slight make perfect sense. Obviously the score is excellent on it's own but I really appreciate how much it's featured throughout . I can't get enough, so the plan is now that that I've read the source material I'll rewatch the movie and finish the series.. then be depressed that this is probably it as season 2 may never happen. likely with good reason

[Swykk]

I hope there’s another season just to catch up with Dan.

[ItsChrisRoss]

I fucking love this series and I can't believe there are only two more episodes left. It's only gotten better as it's progressed. I finally read the original graphic novel and it helped round it out for sure. The series can stand alone on it's own. It is so well crafted and executed and the changes they made albeit slight make perfect sense. Obviously the score is excellent on it's own but I really appreciate how much it's featured throughout . I can't get enough, so the plan is now that that I've read the source material I'll rewatch the movie and finish the series.. then be depressed that this is probably it as season 2 may never happen. likely with good reason

I had to google what you meant by season 2 may never happen and I’m suuuper bummed now after reading about it. This series has been a total fun surprise and it has so much potential to continue on for maybe 3-5 seasons.


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[botley]

I hope there’s another season just to catch up with Dan.
Someone's going to have to bust him out of prison, first...

[Deadpool]

I hope there’s another season just to catch up with Dan.


"So now I’ve got to cast a better Nite-Owl than Patrick Wilson?" –Lindelof (https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/watchmen-damon-lindelof-interview-896780/)

Hey, if Spider-Man: Far from Home can cast JK Simmons......

[richardp]

HBO is going to pressure the shit out of Lindeloff to do another season. So I really doubt this will only be a one and done type thing. If anything, I expect WATCHMEN to be somewhat similar to The Leftovers. Only a few seasons but just the right amount, with quite a bit of time in between each season.

[sonic_discord]

If they didn't have anything in mind for a second season, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a hiatus and doesn't come back until fall/winter of 2021, much like Better Call Saul, Rick and Morty, and Game of Thrones have recently done. (but let's hope there is a season 2 and that we don't have to wait more than a year for it!)

[fillow]

Is Doomsday Clock any good? Worth reading? Will I miss a lot if I haven't read any directly preceding DC BvS stories?

[WorzelG]

Just caught up with this whole thing this week and I am LOVING it, one thing I wouldn’t have thought from any commentary is how funny it is, just really irreverent, particularly Laurie Blake. But lots of humorous bits dotted about - lube man and one bit that particularly cracked me up was Looking Glass when his alarm goes wrong and he’s trying to stop it. We had a run in with a smoke alarm a few weeks back and I could really relate

Also am I overthinking things or was there a sneaky reference to Columbo when Laurie Blake is speaking to Looking Glass and calls him back with ‘one more thing’ and cuts right to the chase

[elevenism]

I had to google what you meant by season 2 may never happen and I’m suuuper bummed now after reading about it. This series has been a total fun surprise and it has so much potential to continue on for maybe 3-5 seasons.


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i agree, for sure.
one thing i love about this show is its lack of spoon feeding exposition, and explaining everything.
it's full of mysteries, and you've got to WAIT for them to pay off. it's challenging in that way, which is sort of refreshing.

[ItsChrisRoss]

i agree, for sure.
one thing i love about this show is its lack of spoon feeding exposition, and explaining everything.
it's full of mysteries, and you've got to WAIT for them to pay off. it's challenging in that way, which is sort of refreshing.

Challenging in a good way. Not in a Westworld way. Haha .


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[Kodiak33]

What's good about this show in comparison to Leftovers/Lost is that Lindehof and team are actually explaining things...in a very smart way IMO. You learn about the different characters and the Watchmen novel in the previous two eps, I thought it was genius how they did it.

[neorev]

What's good about this show in comparison to Leftovers/Lost is that Lindehof and team are actually explaining things...in a very smart way IMO. You learn about the different characters and the Watchmen novel in the previous two eps, I thought it was genius how they did it.

The Leftovers is amazing and absolutely perfect as it is. I don't know what more explanation that story needed.

[bobbie solo]

Is Doomsday Clock any good? Worth reading? Will I miss a lot if I haven't read any directly preceding DC BvS stories?

It's pretty good so far, albeit with a slow start. The art from Gary Frank is absolutely gorgeous. Last issue doesn't come out for another two weeks I think. I hope they stick the landing, and that will probably determine everything re: people's opinions on the series.

[WorzelG]

What the fuck was that elephant supposed to be? Was it like a clue, the elephant in the room or something?

i just remembered in talking about how funny the show is, the Jeremy Irons scenes are amazing, just catapulting dead clones, completely ludicrous but somehow you just go with it

[richardp]

Just realized that the Doctor Manhattan vibrator is called the "EXCALIBUR".

The... EX-CAL-ABAR.

FUCK! The writing on this show is so fucking great.

[wight rabbit]

Just realized that the Doctor Manhattan vibrator is called the "EXCALIBUR".

The... EX-CAL-ABAR.

FUCK! The writing on this show is so fucking great.

HOLY SHIT! Good fucking catch!

[ItsChrisRoss]

Without spoilers, I don’t understand why Manhattan let it happen. Thoughts?


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[ItsChrisRoss]

And also, can someone explain to me why if Veidt chose to be there, he’s jailed up?


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[Wretchedest]

That was too far. Idk I did not like that line being crossed, or how it was done at all

[richardp]

Without spoilers, I don’t understand why Manhattan let it happen. Thoughts?
Because what happens happens. Manhattan has never changed the future because he can see the outcome. If his future entailed for him to be destroyed he could not by his own principle intervene.


And also, can someone explain to me why if Veidt chose to be there, he’s jailed up?
Because Manhattan has the implant put in shortly afterwards, therefor "forgetting" that Veidt is there. He wasn't in jail after all, just simply forgotten about.

[richardp]

If anyone's been keeping up with it, this week's Peteypedia entries basically confirm that Petey IS the silver lube guy.

[sonic_discord]

That was too far. Idk I did not like that line being crossed, or how it was done at all

What line is it you think got crossed? I thought it was a fantastic and extremely well written episode. I love how they are tying everything together. I cannot wait to see how they cap it off next week!

[WorzelG]

People are complaining on Twitter that Watchmen was snubbed by the Golden Globes, but i read a few people say it wasn’t eligible because either HBO didn’t submit it due to spoiler possibility or it didn’t run for enough hours during the time frame. Anyone know how you can find out which programmes are eligible because I’m sure the Oscars announce eligibility so you can see if it was genuinely snubbed?

the score wouldn’t be eligible anyway because they only seem to have a score category for motion pictures

[Wretchedest]

What line is it you think got crossed? I thought it was a fantastic and extremely well written episode. I love how they are tying everything together. I cannot wait to see how they cap it off next week!

The line is killing Dr. Manhattan. It's just very hard for me to buy on so many levels. A being that whole governments and super powers were motivated to deal with us spontaneously murdered by racist rednecks on someone's front lawn?

The case for his ambivalence towards his demise is uphill. He cares about Angela, I guess, and all the stuff Laurie talked to him about in the comic. If he can't see past that moment, why risk jeopardizing that. If he doesn't have a self preservation instinct, how did that work out in battle?

[wight rabbit]

The line is killing Dr. Manhattan. It's just very hard for me to buy on so many levels. A being that whole governments and super powers were motivated to deal with us spontaneously murdered by racist rednecks on someone's front lawn?

The case for his ambivalence towards his demise is uphill. He cares about Angela, I guess, and all the stuff Laurie talked to him about in the comic. If he can't see past that moment, why risk jeopardizing that. If he doesn't have a self preservation instinct, how did that work out in battle?

Didn't he say they were going to teleport him involuntarily?

[sonic_discord]

Let's at least wait until we've seen the final episode to pass judgment on that. I suspect he isn't dead, too. Maybe he'll just let her think he is so she can move on and find someone else? I'm REALLY wondering why it was important for her to see him walking on the water in the pool...

[richardp]

The line is killing Dr. Manhattan. It's just very hard for me to buy on so many levels.

Did you watch the preview for next week's episode?...

He's most definitely not dead. They literally just teleported him to their hideout.

[Wretchedest]

Well that would certainly make me feel differently about it!

[marodi]

If the Smartest Man in the World could not kill Dr Manhattan, I don't see how someone else can...

No wonder Laurie thought Cal was sexy.

[thelastdisciple]

I'm REALLY wondering why it was important for her to see him walking on the water in the pool...
I was thinking about it maybe having to do with him either creating life like he did on Europa OR something about the conversation he had with Angela about passing along his powers, could he have done something to the pool like he said he could do with the egg?

[Jord]

He's still alive, shown in the preview. This episode was absolutely incredible at weaving a great backstory once again - I could take another 9 episodes easily when everything is this good.

I hope Veidt makes it back somehow, not sure how they're going to satisfactorily wrap this one up in a one hour episode but I'm ready for it.

[eversonpoe]

the image of veidt being pissed off at and smacking his remote to try to get it to work properly is one of my favorite things that has been on the show. little mundane moments like that which really ground characters are fantastic. similarly, the fact that dr. cal-hattan was...making waffles while waiting for his inevitable capture was hilarious and so lovely.

the peteypedia entry that is petey's summary of Fogdancing a) made me extremely uncomfortable (i'm glad the book doesn't actually exist) and b) reminded me a little bit of elements of slaughterhouse five, which i'm guessing was intentional?

the loop that angela created by asking will (via dr. M) why he killed judd was such a great example of time-travel mind-fuckery. i love shit like that.

[theruiner]

Continued from the 'What Are You Watching' thread. Context: I mentioned that I wasn't digging the show.

I just don't find the story very interesting, TBH. Like, there are some interesting aspects of the show but they don't come together as a whole for me. I don't mind weird, weird can be good and intriguing but here it just falls flat for me. I don't know. I just don't connect with any of the characters or really care about any of them. I *like* some of them but I'm not, like, invested in them, if that makes sense.

*spoilers* if you aren't caught up

So, I accidentally had it spoiled that Cal is Dr. Manhattan and I am trying to stick with it until at LEAST that episode because I am ridiculously curious what they are going to do with that. Plus, Dr. Manhattan was, by FAR, my favorite character from the book. I would happily watch a show just focused on him.

And like, Lindelof has earned a lot of good will with me because The Leftovers is one of my favorite shows ever, and it took 6 episodes before I was finally hooked. And that show was also super weird and, similar to Watchmen, they would have these incredibly weird things happen with no explanation and wouldn't fill you in on what was actually happening until later in the season. And I *loved* that. It didn't bother me at all with that show. It worked. But here it just doesn't work for me. The mysteries aren't super intriguing and the characters aren't super engaging to me, so I'm just kind of passively watching and hoping that it eventually grabs me.

That all being said, Regina King, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II (Cal), Jeremy Irons and *especially* Tim Blake Nelson are all so much fun to watch. I have really been enjoying their performances.

[Jord]

That's fair enough.

I always wanted a sequel to the movie or something, then heard this was coming and just assumed it was a straight up TV adaptation of the movie. The first couple of episodes I wasn't too bothered and just thought it was good but not amazing, then decided to keep watching anyway. Every subsequent episode has blown me away. I hear you on the actors & actresses too, it's great casting and they are brilliant to watch.

My favourite has been Veidt/Ozymandias. Those scenes have been what I look forward to each episode and I'm so curious as to how he may tie in in the finale.

[sonic_discord]

I can honestly say I've been enthralled with this show since the very first episode. The score is a big reason why, but the whole cattle ranch battle scene was fantastic. I wish there were more episodes to look forward to beyond this Sunday's finale.

[bobbie solo]

Whats with the horseshoe?!?

I assume the little elephant Veidt mentions was a nod to him knowing and speaking with Trieu.

And most importantly, why was Jon's donger so big?

[cdm]

I wish there were more episodes to look forward to beyond this Sunday's finale.

HBO's own graphics continue to refer to Sunday's episode as a Season Finale. To me that indicates additional seasons are, at the very least, still under consideration. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

[sonic_discord]

HBO's own graphics continue to refer to Sunday's episode as a Season Finale. To me that indicates additional seasons are, at the very least, still under consideration. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I wish there were more episodes in this season beyond this Sunday's season finale (sorry for the confusion). Despite what's been said by Lindelof in recent interviews (as discussed on the previous page), and given the success of the show, I anticipate there being at least one or two more seasons. It's too good to be over already! And as long as they treat each season like its own contained story, I don't think they'll fuck it up by trying to build to something big over several seasons, but trying to figure it as they go, only to have it fizzle out or fall apart and be disappointingly anticlimactic.

[cdm]

I’d be into a two hour finale. Hell I’ll take an extra 20 minutes!

[ItsChrisRoss]

What a finale!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[InvitingmeAway]

Great finale. One thing that happened really confused me however (don’t want to spoil it tho) but outside of that, it was fantastic.


Also, latest petypedia entry has a little bit about ‘The Nine Inch Nails’ in there.

[richardp]

Great finale. One thing that happened really confused me however (don’t want to spoil it tho) but outside of that, it was fantastic.


Also, latest petypedia entry has a little bit about ‘The Nine Inch Nails’ in there.

It also, at least in my opinion, gives the show a potential plot-line for a second season.

[theruiner]

*spoilers for the last episode*

Is it just me or is the scene where Lady Trieu visits Veight at his compound an homage to the scene in Back to the Future when Marty shows up at Doc's house in 1955? Like it is SO similar. As a BTTF fan this made me super happy.

Edit: Oh! Ok, just watched a little further and Veight makes a joke about an actor being the president. Come ON, this HAS to be a reference to BTTF, right?!

Edit again: Ok, even the outfit he wears is super similar to the one Doc wears in the movie. This has to be an homage. This made me unreasonably happy.

[ThinkIcouldburn]

Season 2 better be dedicated to the story of Lubeman.

[marodi]

I believe the "cowboy actor" was a reference to Reagan and/or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

Oh Ozy, you never disappoint.

Also: ARCHIE!

[theruiner]

She also mentions a re-run, which, given the context, I think is also a reference to BTTF.

Also, the warden shooting Veight and him falling to the ground, only to come back to life while the warden is standing over him seems to be an homage to Back to the Future 3

Like, all of that can't be a coincidence.

[eversonpoe]

my friend clint's recap of the episode (https://thespool.net/tv/2019/12/watchmen-season-finale-recap-see-how-they-fly/)

and a vanity fair discussion (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/watchmen-finale-song-i-am-the-eggman-walrus-who-sings-easter-eggs-damon-lindelof) with damen lindelof regarding the closing song of the episode

that was fantastic. these 9 episodes of television were incredible. i love how many perfectly-crafted, limited-run shows we've been getting lately. between this, hill house, and mindhunter, TV is in a really good place.

also, i don't remember if i said it on here, but i knew that the statue of veidt in lady trieu's garden/office was actually him frozen in some kind of metal. i fucking knew it.

[sonic_discord]

Absolutely brilliant episode. I had somewhat anticipated Veidt and Trieu being in cahoots, even that they were related and that her daughter was actually a clone of her mother, but how they pieced everything together worked better than I expected! And (unless I misinterpreted) the gold statue that we saw earlier in episode 4 was actually Veidt still in his "frozen in carbonite" status from his trip from Europa to Earth, which is just fantastic! I also guessed right about there being one egg left in the carton and that they'd cut to black the second her foot was about to touch the water. Man, they HAVE to do a second season after that! Surely they were just playing coy about there being a second season so as not to give anything away regarding the finale, right? Either way, this was the best show of 2019 as far as I'm concerned. Also, the theory that they'd been giving away the ending in the marketing materials all along by having Angela tinted blue (against the yellow clock) turned out to be true as well, which just adds to how brilliantly executed this whole season has been! Bring on season 2!!

[theruiner]

That last moment was the most Lindelof thing ever. As soon as she stood next to the pool I was like oh, right, she's going to just about step onto the water and then cut to black. I know it. And I was right. Freaking Lindelof.

That's not a complaint, BTW. I just found it amusing because that is ABSOLUTELY what I would expect from him.

[ltrandazzo]

She also mentions a re-run, which, given the context, I think is also a reference to BTTF.

Also, the warden shooting Veight and him falling to the ground, only to come back to life while the warden is standing over him seems to be an homage to Back to the Future 3

Like, all of that can't be a coincidence.

Your spoiled part comes directly from the comics. There's a scene at the end where that happens.

[Max]

This show was perfect and the score was a masterpiece. What a time to be alive.

[neorev]

Between the finale of Watchmen and last night's episode of Mr. Robot...

https://media.tenor.com/images/3d6edd838ec049ff22778002eaf11981/tenor.gif

[richardp]

God between Chernobyl, Watchmen, and Mr. Robot, I feel incredibly humbled at the quality of television we all got this year.

[neorev]

God between Chernobyl, Watchmen, and Mr. Robot, I feel incredibly humbled at the quality of television we all got this year.

Throw in Netflix's Mindhunter, love that show too.

[neorev]

Watchmen May Not Return For Season 2, Says Damon Lindelof
https://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/1114970-watchmen-may-not-return-for-season-2-says-damon-lindelof

[Wretchedest]

Can I offer you an egg in this trying time?

[zecho]

So, controversial opinion time. I loved this show up until the Dr. M episode. There was nothing about the episode's writing that bothered me, it was just how human they had him look. Just like a blue man instead of a god. In that same vein, I don't like that they killed him at all. He seems eternal in the comics, and I think that's sort of the point. Like, even in such a surreal and wild show, I just can't suspend my disbelief far enough to buy that a literal god was outsmarted by a bunch of humans, whether that be the 7K or Trieu.

The only time in the comic that he isn't in control is when he literally can't see what's going to happen because of Veidt's machine. In the show, he knows exactly how he's going to be killed for at least ten years, and when the time comes he just lets it happen? Him letting it happen "because it happens" isn't a good explanation. Please guys, tell me I've missed something important here?

[elevenism]

I was thinking about it maybe having to do with him either creating life like he did on Europa OR something about the conversation he had with Angela about passing along his powers, could he have done something to the pool like he said he could do with the egg? @thelastdisciple (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=199) for the win.

[Max]

So, controversial opinion time. I loved this show up until the Dr. M episode. There was nothing about the episode's writing that bothered me, it was just how human they had him look. Just like a blue man instead of a god. In that same vein, I don't like that they killed him at all. He seems eternal in the comics, and I think that's sort of the point. Like, even in such a surreal and wild show, I just can't suspend my disbelief far enough to buy that a literal god was outsmarted by a bunch of humans, whether that be the 7K or Trieu.

The only time in the comic that he isn't in control is when he literally can't see what's going to happen because of Veidt's machine. In the show, he knows exactly how he's going to be killed for at least ten years, and when the time comes he just lets it happen? Him letting it happen "because it happens" isn't a good explanation. Please guys, tell me I've missed something important here?

I would say Manhattan wanter to die. He had tried being a god on earth and being a god on Europa and he ended up deciding he just wanted ten good years of being a human being and then die like we all do. I think that was actually really true to the depressed, intensely isolated vibe Dr. M always gave off. He was never outsmarted. This is what he wanted.

plus he was never literally a god. He had the power over atoms but he wasn’t omniscient.

[Max]

I want to see Watchmen season two directed by a black woman. I think that would be the perfect next step on this journey, to tell the story of how a black female “god” would reshape the world.

[zecho]

I would say Manhattan wanter to die. He had tried being a god on earth and being a god on Europa and he ended up deciding he just wanted ten good years of being a human being and then die like we all do. I think that was actually really true to the depressed, intensely isolated vibe Dr. M always gave off. He was never outsmarted. This is what he wanted.

plus he was never literally a god. He had the power over atoms but he wasn’t omniscient.

If he wanted to die, they could have shown that somehow. Instead all that they show is that he accepts that he will die, and even imply a few times that he doesn't want to. And he's not omniscient outside of his own experiences, but he could have willed the guy who shot him to death, or teleported away, or anything. The guy can make something out of nothing, bend matter to his will, etc. Even if he had more limits than he does, he could have just blown that guy up with the rest of them. He doesn't, but the only explanation is that he knows he doesn't. That's not good writing, which hurts to say considering how brilliantly written the first seven episodes were.

I just felt that at no point in the show did he seem all that powerful. They kept saying he was over and over, but he never showed it really.

[zecho]

The Watchmen movie got a lot of things wrong, but it nailed Dr. M. This is Doctor Manhattan to me:


https://youtu.be/4iLmCTziuNc

[Ruined]

I think Dr. M wanted to end it as someone else noted. Perhaps he also wanted to pass his gift onto the protagonist to see what she might do with it. Perhaps his falling in love with her, due to her selfless act, confirmed to him that she was the right person to have his gift. Hence the omelette line and assuring her grandfather that she would understand "when the time was right." Whether we get a second season or not, it was a beautiful story.

[Wretchedest]

I think there's actually plenty of instances in this show where characters are not motivated very well. I imagine this is because the writers were so focused on theme and on mystery that some of the character physics took a back seat. Lady Trieu I think is a woefully underdeveloped character who feels more expository than real. But I am also bothered at the nature of Manhattans demise and more than anything else that element is the most major blemish on this show for me. The other instances of poor motivation or sloppy building are forgivable in service of the bigger picture.

[Fred]

The Watchmen movie got a lot of things wrong, but it nailed Dr. M. This is Doctor Manhattan to me:


https://youtu.be/4iLmCTziuNc

I love how they used Philip Glass' score from Koyaanisqatsi in those scenes. To my mind, that was the only proper soundtrack of Doctor Manhattan, but Trent and Atticus' wonderfully epic theme during the climax of episode 8 of the series may even top it. Looking forward to being able to listen to that track.

[Jord]

Thought it was a fantastic ending. So much so that I don't even care if they never make another series.

Of course I'd watch if they did though.

[Max]

If he wanted to die, they could have shown that somehow. Instead all that they show is that he accepts that he will die, and even imply a few times that he doesn't want to. And he's not omniscient outside of his own experiences, but he could have willed the guy who shot him to death, or teleported away, or anything. The guy can make something out of nothing, bend matter to his will, etc. Even if he had more limits than he does, he could have just blown that guy up with the rest of them. He doesn't, but the only explanation is that he knows he doesn't. That's not good writing, which hurts to say considering how brilliantly written the first seven episodes were.

I just felt that at no point in the show did he seem all that powerful. They kept saying he was over and over, but he never showed it really.


I disagree that it was bad writing. I think you just didn't personally like it. That's fine. A lot of people including myself loved it. That's okay too. Or as the fourth episode title says, "if you don't like my story write your own".

[snaapz]

I'm only on EP5... what a strange and odd show! :eek: So far I am really enjoying it.

[Ruined]

BTW for those who haven't listened to it, I highly recommend the official Watchmen podcast with Damon Lindelof. A lot of great exposition and general discussion.

[eversonpoe]

BTW for those who haven't listened to it, I highly recommend the official Watchmen podcast with Damon Lindelof. A lot of great exposition and general discussion.

came here to say this! there's some fun stuff in there, and some additional questions answered.

[onthewall2983]

I thought it was good. Some really strong emotional moments to cling onto, and spectacular SFX, music (duh), and other post-production elements. If done right there is a lot here which could be unpacked into full seasons of their own without overstaying it's welcome. I think "Vietnam as the 51st state" could be a very strong story on it's own, with enough callbacks and references to not stray too far from the source.

[Nini]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3xsXpCBpIO/?igshid=1h4lrt4yxa7al

can anyone tell me the name of the song in the second and third video?

[Haysey_Draws]

Another controversial opinion...i don't think there should be a second season. The show was so clearly made for what we got, with some teases but no actual set up for a second season. It really showed in every department how much care and attention they poured into it. A second season, no matter how good, would likely never live up to this...and peoples opinion of this show will only grow as time goes on. I say leave it as is, an amazing single season of TV from start to finish.

[fillow]

Was this thing in the show? I don't remember it
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw7QGKslic1/

[botley]

^ Yes... Veidt flies that flag in Ep. 3 and rides past it on horseback.

[StockAvuryah]

Conclusion : myeah why not, the soundtrack has more emotional closure than the finale

[bobbie solo]

So, controversial opinion time. I loved this show up until the Dr. M episode. There was nothing about the episode's writing that bothered me, it was just how human they had him look. Just like a blue man instead of a god. In that same vein, I don't like that they killed him at all. He seems eternal in the comics, and I think that's sort of the point. Like, even in such a surreal and wild show, I just can't suspend my disbelief far enough to buy that a literal god was outsmarted by a bunch of humans, whether that be the 7K or Trieu.

The only time in the comic that he isn't in control is when he literally can't see what's going to happen because of Veidt's machine. In the show, he knows exactly how he's going to be killed for at least ten years, and when the time comes he just lets it happen? Him letting it happen "because it happens" isn't a good explanation. Please guys, tell me I've missed something important here?

Part of me thinks he's not dead. Especially if she doesn't get his powers (Although Damon has strongly hinted in interviews since that he leans towards her getting his powers). In a future season, I could easily see him start reappearing and re-forming a la the comic/movie after the initial accident.

[Max]

My take - I could live with this being the only season. That would be a good call.

If they decide to do a second season... you have to have a question to ask. Something important. The very end of season 1 asks this question already: How would a black woman with the powers of a god remake the world?

But as I think through it all, as fantastic of a story tat could be - you would still need some kind of antagonist, some kind of overwhelming odds you are up against. Maybe smarter people than me can think of how to pull that off. Put it in the hands of a black female director and build a world of real equality like we haven't seen before - set some of the wrongs right again... that's something that we haven't really seen.

Maybe they could pick up the show in a few years. Start is AFTER she has remade some of the world, like Dr. Manhattan originally did with electric cars and airships and Vietnam and all that. Set it ten years down the road.

Now who the antagonist would be, what the stakes would be there... any ideas?

[eversonpoe]

My take - I could live with this being the only season. That would be a good call.

If they decide to do a second season... you have to have a question to ask. Something important. The very end of season 1 asks this question already: How would a black woman with the powers of a god remake the world?

But as I think through it all, as fantastic of a story tat could be - you would still need some kind of antagonist, some kind of overwhelming odds you are up against. Maybe smarter people than me can think of how to pull that off. Put it in the hands of a black female director and build a world of real equality like we haven't seen before - set some of the wrongs right again... that's something that we haven't really seen.

Maybe they could pick up the show in a few years. Start is AFTER she has remade some of the world, like Dr. Manhattan originally did with electric cars and airships and Vietnam and all that. Set it ten years down the road.

Now who the antagonist would be, what the stakes would be there... any ideas?

i think the antagonist would (still) be all the racist white people

[bobbie solo]

i think a second season, if it followed the same storyline, would need to be set far enough in the future that they could safely/conveniently move Angela off-world. She follows Jon's path perhaps, does something similar to what Jon did on Europa. Whatever it is, the key is that she can't just be coexisting on Earth with these insane powers. Or maybe she hides them? Would need a damn good reason for that.

[ItsChrisRoss]

Might not be the right thread but finally got around to listening to Vol 3 and was looking at the track list online and noticed that “Life on Mars” is only on the digital release? [emoji26]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thelastdisciple]

I don't have much to complain about for how the HBO season went, i really dug how it all went down.

The only thing bugging me was that i much preferred the visual depiction of Dr. M in the Snyder film, I know that there are the in-universe explanations for why he looks different in the show and by all means all of that works. Angela brings up his lack of glow and he responds by saying it's because he chose not to, then there's the entire fact of him choosing to look like a deceased human and be her husband.

I just hate that I'm reminded of someone from blue man group or the fucking Gaviscon guy lol certainly never felt that way with the blockbuster interpretation. I guess budgets and what not.

[fillow]

He can look whatever he wants at will. Wasn't there a scene in original comic where TV guys ask him to adjust his shade of blue so he would look better on screen? And he did.

[thelastdisciple]

He can look whatever he wants at will. Wasn't there a scene in original comic where TV guys ask him to adjust his shade of blue so he would look better on screen? And he did.
That's what I'm saying though, it's not really about how you can explain it for story purposes i think they just did a shitty make up job.

[eversonpoe]

That's what I'm saying though, it's not really about how you can explain it for story purposes i think they just did a shitty make up job.

wait, really? i thought he looked awesome on the show ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MrLobster]

Just finished watching...

...quite worth it.

[snaapz]

Is this show good or bad for black people? I live in Canada so racism and life is different than in the USA (non existent in comparison), but the racist stuff in this show is a bit much. Like have some fucking pride for being black and stop painting this picture that blacks are people who get hung from trees and treated like cattle. Let it go. Move on. Stop painting this picture. I'm not saying to forget what happened in the USA, but broadcasting this racist stuff and mistreatment is painting a picture and adds to prejudice and stereotypes people have today.

It has the same effect as how false "gossip and rumors" can impact ones opinion of someone, even though you're told the rumor is false you still have that image in your head.

Aside from that this show is kick ass.

[ItsChrisRoss]

Is this show good or bad for black people? I live in Canada so racism and life is different than in the USA (non existent in comparison), but the racist stuff in this show is a bit much. Like have some fucking pride for being black and stop painting this picture that blacks are people who get hung from trees and treated like cattle. Let it go. Move on. Stop painting this picture. I'm not saying to forget what happened in the USA, but broadcasting this racist stuff and mistreatment is painting a picture and adds to prejudice and stereotypes people have today.

Aside from that this show is kick ass.

The whole riot in Oklahoma that they show actually happened in real history. Called the Tulsa Race Riot. I think they were just trying to portray history accurately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thelastdisciple]

stop painting this picture that blacks are people who get hung from trees and treated like cattle.
No they just get disproportionately profiled and murdered by cops instead. No big deal....

[cdm]

Is this show good or bad for black people? I live in Canada so racism and life is different than in the USA (non existent in comparison), but the racist stuff in this show is a bit much. Like have some fucking pride for being black and stop painting this picture that blacks are people who get hung from trees and treated like cattle. Let it go. Move on. Stop painting this picture. I'm not saying to forget what happened in the USA, but broadcasting this racist stuff and mistreatment is painting a picture and adds to prejudice and stereotypes people have today.

It has the same effect as how false "gossip and rumors" can impact ones opinion of someone, even though you're told the rumor is false you still have that image in your head.


I'm not going to comment on racism in Canada except that it exists. It's more out in the open in some places (I'm looking at you, Alberta) but it definitely exists.

Lynchings specifically may be a thing of the past but racism is still an everyday thing to a lot of people in this country. There is no "moving on" when you experience it every day. Do I experience it? No. I'm white. But I see others experiencing it. NOT portraying racism begets more racism...hiding it away perpetuates it. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[botley]

I also think that this show treats the issue of internalized racism and anger in response to racist atrocities in a unique, intelligent way.

[cdm]

No they just get disproportionately profiled and murdered by cops instead. No big deal....

I live in a solidly middle class town, majority white...driving towards a traffic stop you can ALWAYS determine the driver's skin color by the number of police cars. 2 or more: always black / brown.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1217906082221191168

[Kodiak33]

The way it should be IMO.

[neorev]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2020/01/16/watchmen-second-hbo-season-wont-happen-after-creator-bails/4491269002/?fbclid=IwAR0Etve6fFHtN8WgYZQ1yr7TtSIXBbQIuz7zxiVS yko76JDSPwABI_sthHg

[eversonpoe]

well, i just used this gif in reaction to mindhunter being indefinitely delayed, and i'll use it here, too:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/9cfb71df11de5d0e11cf07cbd51a1253/tenor.gif?itemid=15578581

[tricil]

Honestly this was so perfect as a one and done.

[sonic_discord]

On one hand, I loved this show so much that I can't help but wish there were more coming ("just hook it to my veins!!"). However, on the other hand, they did end it pretty much as perfectly as they possibly could have, so I'm kind of okay with it because of that. BUT I can't help but think there could be another interesting story to tell. I'd like to see Angela with her Dr. Manhattan powers and they could introduce more new characters, and explore a potential storyline with Dan (Nite Owl) being in Prison and then Veidt showing up after the events of season 1 and the two of them having to work together to get out of prison and partner with Angela to stop a new threat that emerges (or something). Oh and obviously bring back Looking Glass!

[chuckrh]

HBO is on for free this weekend. The binge has begun on this!

[sonic_discord]

Blu-ray is coming June 2 (https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=26413), but there unfortunately doesn't appear to be a 4K release happening. It blows my mind that they aren't releasing this in 4K. Over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchmen/comments/edvqsl/4k_possibility/), someone who seems to be from the film crew mentioned the following:

We shot the show on Arri Alexa Mini’s... which is only 3.2k... so they could technically upres it... but HBO doesn’t stream in 4K so it isn’t mandatory like it is for Netflix/Sony etc.

[Jon]

Blu-ray is coming June 2 (https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=26413), but there unfortunately doesn't appear to be a 4K release happening. It blows my mind that they aren't releasing this in 4K. Over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchmen/comments/edvqsl/4k_possibility/), someone who seems to be from the film crew mentioned the following:


We shot the show on Arri Alexa Mini’s... which is only 3.2k... so they could technically upres it... but HBO doesn’t stream in 4K so it isn’t mandatory like it is for Netflix/Sony etc.

Which means the editing was probably done on a 2K digital intermediate.

[neorev]

Blu-ray is coming June 2 (https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=26413), but there unfortunately doesn't appear to be a 4K release happening. It blows my mind that they aren't releasing this in 4K. Over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchmen/comments/edvqsl/4k_possibility/), someone who seems to be from the film crew mentioned the following:

I've been waiting for a Blu-ray of Carnivále for many years. Such a beautifully filmed show. I have the original DVD sets, which look lovely. But I wanna own this show in HD. Only way to watch it on HD is through HBO Go. Be amazing to get it in 4K if possible. I fucking love this series so much. Can't believe HBO turned down Marvel's offer to continue it as graphic novels and its creator is blocked from finishing it.