How to Make Music with Your Computer

[Jinsai]

Resurrecting the thread dedicated to music tech and computer-based production!

Xmas came early this year
Lemur for iPad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zOdRwgIRQ

[Malechite]

Xmas came early this year
Lemur for iPad


It's $49.99

Here is the link:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lemur/id481290621?mt=8

[jrdsctt]

Any here ever use Sony Acid Music Maker?

[Jinsai]

It's $49.99

And worth every penny. I'd almost given up hope that they'd do it.


Any here ever use Sony Acid Music Maker?

yes, but it was a long time ago, so I'm not sure how helpful I could be.

[Malechite]

And worth every penny. I'd almost given up hope that they'd do it.

Oh totally. I was just posting so people wouldn't have to look for it :)


Any here ever use Sony Acid Music Maker?

I used Sonic Foundry Acid when it first came out, and I used a couple versions after Sony bought them, But I probably haven't used it in 6 years or so.

[The Reason Being]

This is probably going to be really vague, but can anyone recommend any good midi / sampling software? My computer recently died and I lost everything on it, and also picked up some mpc pads (Akai Mpd18). Everything I download is either a trial version or needs a code (the whole keygen thing just blows my mind). obviously in the new year i'll start putting my hand in my pocket but until then can anyone recommend anything to just get started ? Thanks in advance :)

[fixate]

This is probably going to be really vague, but can anyone recommend any good midi / sampling software? My computer recently died and I lost everything on it, and also picked up some mpc pads (Akai Mpd18). Everything I download is either a trial version or needs a code (the whole keygen thing just blows my mind). obviously in the new year i'll start putting my hand in my pocket but until then can anyone recommend anything to just get started ? Thanks in advance :)

Not exactly sure what you need, just a DAW host program I assume. If you need cheap/free, look at Reaper: http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

[R-Dot-Yung]

How are they selling it for so cheap? That's insane

[fixate]

Ha. No idea. They also don't limit the software in any way for their 30-day trial. I haven't used Reaper, though I've heard great things. Ableton man here.

[fixate]

I received a Korg Monotron as a gift this holiday. It's fun, though not quite as actually 'useful' as I was hoping. That said, I haven't even plugged it into my Firebox yet or thrown any effects on it. Also the fact that I can run audio through it's filter is very interesting, because that filter screams.

[liquidcalm]

I received a Korg Monotron as a gift this holiday. It's fun, though not quite as actually 'useful' as I was hoping. That said, I haven't even plugged it into my Firebox yet or thrown any effects on it. Also the fact that I can run audio through it's filter is very interesting, because that filter screams.

I'd love to have a play with one, just for the filter on existing audio, not so interested in the actual synth part which doesn't look very usuable.
The new Delay model looks pretty swell too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNXOI1AIjKo

[Jinsai]

I received a Korg Monotron as a gift this holiday. It's fun, though not quite as actually 'useful' as I was hoping. That said, I haven't even plugged it into my Firebox yet or thrown any effects on it. Also the fact that I can run audio through it's filter is very interesting, because that filter screams.

if you're good with electronics, you could try doing a crazy mod on it (http://www.korg.co.jp/Product/Dance/monotron/welove/)

[neorev]

Love the monotron, its a part of my live setup
usually run it through my Korg KP3 fx unit and put some modulation and delays on it for crazy extra tweaks
And yeah its great for the techies out there to mod and expand

Ableton is my main writing and mixing tool, which I control with an Akai APC40, Korg NanoPad, and Novation ReMote 25SL
Also got a Korg Kaoss Pad Quad and handheld Kaossilator for fucking around live over my main tracks

[Leviathant]

How are they selling it for so cheap? That's insane

One of the guys who does Reaper wrote Winamp, and was hired by AOL for something like 22 million when he was 23 yrs old. the reaper team is very small (2 people?) last I looked, so they don't need a lot to operate with I guess. If I wasn't so familiar with Vegas, Reaper would be what I worked with

[Jinsai]

Has anyone played with NI's Razor synth? I'm tempted to just buy it, even though I probably shouldn't for budget reasons. I feel like a demo would help me make up my mind, but there isn't one.

[Fixer808]

I've been making stuff with Reason for the past 6-7 years, or at least trying to. I've had good results and I've had shit. I need to get a new computer (mine is on its very last legs, being about as old as my first Reason dabblings) and install my early-2000's copy of Cubase on it. That shit and its synth/effect plugins has ALWAYS done right by me!

[Fixer808]

To be clear, I use physical instruments as well, only not recently, as I have no means of recording... When I was in a band, though, Cubase was great for chopping and cutting and reworking shit!

[wizfan]

If you want a cool, freeware, cross-platform MIDI and tablature/score maker, check out TuxGuitar: http://tuxguitar.herac.com.ar/

It's a great program, compatible with GuitarPro files (up to version 5) and can export to .mid as well. It's fast and easy to use. You can make entire songs with just your keyboard and mouse, and then export the .mid's to any DAW. I load them up in Ableton Live and VST the shit out of them!

[Jinsai]

This changes everything. finally.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/cubasis/id583976519?mt=8&affId=1410283&ign-mpt=uo%3D4

[jmtd]

I received a Korg Monotron as a gift this holiday. It's fun, though not quite as actually 'useful' as I was hoping. That said, I haven't even plugged it into my Firebox yet or thrown any effects on it. Also the fact that I can run audio through it's filter is very interesting, because that filter screams.

Which one - the base unit, the duo or the delay? I've got the delay. I like playing with it, but I can't see it being useful if/when I actually get something recorded, not least because splicing it into my pipeline will be a real faff, versus using a VST delay instead. On the other hand, I'm too much of a newb to actually use a DAW yet, so perhaps I will.

[r_z]

Recently bought the Korg Monotribe. It's a lot of fun. I made a quick demo with it (plus guitar and some drums):

www.elbarian.de/011.wav (http://www.elbarian.de/011.wav)

All electronic elements I made with the Monotribe. Even the bass. This thing has a lot of potential...

[fixate]

Which one - the base unit, the duo or the delay? I've got the delay. I like playing with it, but I can't see it being useful if/when I actually get something recorded, not least because splicing it into my pipeline will be a real faff, versus using a VST delay instead. On the other hand, I'm too much of a newb to actually use a DAW yet, so perhaps I will.

It was the base one, had it before the duo or delay were released. It's been sitting in the box for some time. Oh well.

Right now I am in love with Maschine. I grabbed a cheap Mikro mk1 off ebay shortly after the mk2's came out. I can stand and turn to this table and barely need to look at the screen or touch the mouse when playing anymore. It's so nice:
http://i.imgur.com/jKwaE.jpg

[jmtd]

Sweet. Is the meeblip SE any good? I'm considering selling my Alesis Micron and getting a different synth, one with more knobs on. I want to learn more about programming synths and the micron is too tough to use for a beginner or without a computer IMHO. The meeblip appeals because it has lots of knobs (Rationale: as a beginner, you want to turn a random know and figure out what impact that has on the sound. With the Micron, you need to know what "pre-filter cutoff" means to go and navigate to it and adjust it), and also the open source aspect. The downside would be the cost. I'd be getting either that or a microkorg.

[Jinsai]

this cubase app for ipad is prettttttttty amazing.

[fixate]

Sweet. Is the meeblip SE any good? I'm considering selling my Alesis Micron and getting a different synth, one with more knobs on. I want to learn more about programming synths and the micron is too tough to use for a beginner or without a computer IMHO. The meeblip appeals because it has lots of knobs (Rationale: as a beginner, you want to turn a random know and figure out what impact that has on the sound. With the Micron, you need to know what "pre-filter cutoff" means to go and navigate to it and adjust it), and also the open source aspect. The downside would be the cost. I'd be getting either that or a microkorg.

Well I love it. But I've also seen a lot of people hating on it pretty good. Could be because besides that my Mopho is my only other hardware synth, so I can't complain about it too much. It's very digital (because it is), and I like that. Like you say, I was ready for something with more knobs, and have a lot of fun twiddling on the fly. I don't have a lot of experience with the Microkorg, so I can't really compare. Either should be a little less obnoxious to program than the Micron.

[liquidcalm]

this cubase app for ipad is prettttttttty amazing.

unnnf more apps to check out.. I waste so much money on damn music apps.. I bought that 48 track one the other day and have barely touched it, that an iMPC. I do find myself making noodles with Figure tho

[Jinsai]

Native Instrument's new distortion/filter plugin is free to download until December 31st! (http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/effects/driver/)

grab it now before the price goes from $0 to $50

[jmtd]

Just noticed most Korg and Moog iOS apps are half price atm, and a bunch of others that I watch (SunVox,…) have also reduced. Are any of them worth buying?

[fixate]

Just noticed most Korg and Moog iOS apps are half price atm, and a bunch of others that I watch (SunVox,…) have also reduced. Are any of them worth buying?

Animoog is a lot of fun. I haven't messed with many Korg apps, but iPolysix looks really nice.

[Jinsai]

SunVox is amazing. In fact, if those are all on sale, they're all worth it. I like the MS-20 and I really like the Electribe, and the Animoog is much cooler than you might original think (though I got lucky and got it when it was $1). Still, I need to download the update, because the new features look pretty great.

But SunVox? Most definitely. Get.

[onthewall2983]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BSPbiGi0ugc

[neorev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7dIkonCfFE

Me want!

Check out from 20 minutes on = mind fucking blown

And around 32 mins on = I want that goddamn Push controller

[neorev]

Has anyone played with NI's Razor synth? I'm tempted to just buy it, even though I probably shouldn't for budget reasons. I feel like a demo would help me make up my mind, but there isn't one.

Razor is awesome, I use it a lot actually... def a nice and versatile synth from basses to leads to pads

[jmtd]

Getting real HW synth envy at the moment.

As mentioned I've got a Micron that I struggle with. I've been looking at the Microkorg, which looks a little easier (but less good on paper. No point in power if you can't figure it out though!); the XL looks better (samples!) but harder to use; the XL+ is too new and there aren't enough reviews of it.

I considered and skipped the Novation Xiosynth a few years back when I got the Micron and damn, I think I regret that decision now. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a cheapo second hand unit. Having said that, the new Novation Mininova looks pretty goddamn awesome.

And finally, a total curveball, I just learned of the Teenage Engineering OP-1 today. Wow. Want. But SO expensive.
http://www.teenageengineering.com/products/op-1 (https://owa.ncl.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=8b5c2c6494cd45f8b217b8b7916776bc&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.teenageengineering.com%2fprod ucts%2fop-1)

The built in "4 track" recorded and the OLED screen (which looks much more accessible to a newb than the calculator-esque traditional LCD IMHO) make me wonder why that isn't more common in the other ones I've mentioned.

This jam sesh on that device is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKgL4ONTIqY

[Jinsai]

Getting real HW synth envy at the moment.

I considered and skipped the Novation Xiosynth a few years back when I got the Micron and damn, I think I regret that decision now. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a cheapo second hand unit. Having said that, the new Novation Mininova looks pretty goddamn awesome.

The hard fact at the end of the day is that there are awesome advantages to having real hardware synths, but something like the Xio isn't worth getting excited about. I'd take software synths and a half decent controller over that any day.

The frustrating truth is that if you want to feel satisfied after you buy a hardware synth, you're either going to have to put down a good chunk of cash, or you're going to need to do some legwork on your own. Are you good with electronics (soldering etc?)

[Leviathant]

I don't understand why anyone who's considering a Microkorg would not instead save a little more money and pick up a used MS-2000.

I'm currently fighting off serious gearlust over an Arturia Minibrute. I do not need it. I would not use it to make listenable music. But it looks like so much fun, and the price is stupid cheap given what it does.

I also love the sound the Oto Biscuit makes, but again, don't think I could use it in anything anyone else would really want to hear. I'd buy a Minibrute before I bought a biscuit.

[Fixer808]

I'm currently fighting off serious gearlust over an Arturia Minibrute. I got sweaty under the collar a while abck over the Minimoog Voyager I tried out in the shop. If I'd had $3K at the time...

[Jinsai]

I got sweaty under the collar a while abck over the Minimoog Voyager I tried out in the shop. If I'd had $3K at the time...

Well, fortunately the Minibrute is a lot cheaper, and it's pretty awesome. But yeah, that's the kind of thing that justifies a hardware synth purchase.

Anyway, I'm going to go hug my Minimoog. For a while I wasn't using it enough, but lately, every song I'm working on needs more minimoog.

[DVYDRNS]

I used to lust after all this gear all the time. then I got a copy of Komplete. Between FM8, REAKTOR and MASSIVE and BATTERY I cant bring myself to fork out a ton of money on a hardware synth anymore. I do
however, lust after midi controllers now...

yes i know HERESY

[liquidcalm]

I also love the sound the Oto Biscuit makes, but again, don't think I could use it in anything anyone else would really want to hear. I'd buy a Minibrute before I bought a biscuit.

Man, I'd love a Biscuit. I love the sound of bitcrushing done well. But I wouldn't do it well.

As a present to myself for being awesome (and selling some gear/cds/books I don't need) I just bought myself one of these : http://mutable-instruments.net/shruthi1
Got my soldering iron ready.. I can't wait.
As much as I like soft synths, I just love the sound of these cheap yet versatile devices, its going to sit next to my Meeblip and make sweet sweet lo-fi love. (unless I balls up the soldering)

[jmtd]

Just re listened to phm remastered for the first time in a while: there's a suprising amount of bit crushy stuff on there. A bit ahead of its time?

[Jinsai]

I used to lust after all this gear all the time. then I got a copy of Komplete. Between FM8, REAKTOR and MASSIVE and BATTERY I cant bring myself to fork out a ton of money on a hardware synth anymore. I do
however, lust after midi controllers now...

yes i know HERESY

Reaktor really is the end-all when it comes to software imo. I can't wrap my head around building from scratch in it, but I have a friend who has created some amazing ensembles. Some of it is just untouchable.

Still, I have not heard a software synth that can truly emulate the sound of a real analog 303. I've heard some good emulations of certain types of analog sounds you can pull out of a Minimoog, but nothing that has the true analog grind and versatility. I also love my Access Virus TI, which is now my go-to digital synth, despite it being the most unreliable and problematic piece of hardware I've owned. Massive is awesome, but I'll almost always run to the Virus instead.

But yeah... it's true, anyone who says that software is "inferior" on some basic level to analog hardware has their head up their ass. Once I take a break from the "rock" album I've been working on, I'm going to try putting together a minimal ambient album using only iPad synths. Really, the iPad is starting to shine as an essential piece of kit.

[Leviathant]

Just re listened to phm remastered for the first time in a while: there's a suprising amount of bit crushy stuff on there. A bit ahead of its time?

Bit crushing is retro, rather than PHM being ahead of its time. IIRC the sampler TR was using was 12-bit, and nice interpolation during pitch shifting was all but non-existent in the 80s.

[DVYDRNS]

Jinsai
I hear ya. Everybody drones on and on about a real moog sound.

while moog being just totally fantastic, I tweak the hell out of everything i do anyway. So even if I had a legit moog, it wouldnt sound like a moog by the time i was done with it.

Take massive and FM8 for instance, by the time im done with whatever i do with those, theyre usually pushed through a guitar amp and a pedal board. and mic'd and manipulated. so they dont even end up sounding like what they sound like...

What i dont understand is all these people who save up for all these super fresh high end synths and dont make music or know how to make music in the first place or even comprehend basic synthesis for that matter...... Just because Trent or Allesandro has it... its stupid.

[DVYDRNS]

just picked up this little beast. (http://instagram.com/p/UHeFIsoPj8/)

[jmtd]

Re Moog "sound", see also: Roland, Korg... I think it's a lot to do with the fact that the majority of people work from presets and do little tweaking. What I get even less is the analog obsession. Anyone care to defend it?

My brother was given a Casio Cz 3000 synth, which is unashamedly digital and somewhat out of fashion as a result. I haven't played with it yet but I'll be surprised if there's much difference.

[DVYDRNS]

I cant defend it. the so called warmth that you can only attain from an analog synth can easily be replicated with recording techniques. like micing cabinets instead of running direct. or micing cabs AND running direct for multiple tracks. there are so many ways to create atmosphere. I think people confuse warmth with atmosphere. and lack of atmosphere is just inexperience or flat out laziness.

Now I will say that tracking to tape does make a difference. I like it but i'm not saying its better or worse. Its a different sound. i'll bet 99% of the people that bitch about it wouldnt be able to tell the difference in a blind test. or if they could, they wouldnt be able to say it sounds bad by any means.

its all in the technique.

Look at TR. he uses all these new and vintage ANALOG synths these days and his music is HARSHER and COLDER than it was on TDS and the FRAGILE. Because he tracks straight into to protools and doesnt spend as much time on atmosphere as he used to. Same goes for Depeche Mode. Although I'd say DM still creates more interesting music these days.

Point is.. it doesnt make a difference. All that matters is the inspiration and the technique.

[liquidcalm]

software is awesome. I think its more that people just want something 'real' sometimes. I couldn't ever tell the difference, but having something tangible to manipulate is always attractive. In the live environment I want to see those boxes do their thing, not just a guy at a laptop (even though I know the laptop is pretty much essential) not because it 'real' over 'fake'.. it is just more interesting to me.
Ipad synths are awesome.. I personally prefer samplers and loopers, but being able to source synth riffs etc from one app then loop it and chop in another (like Samplr or Glitchbreaks) is so much fun.

[DVYDRNS]

which is why i love MIDI controllers. I do like that tangable experience. I hate painting notes in and mousing modulation and automation. its all about a nice controller!

[liquidcalm]

I also would like to add I like a bit of restriction (hence my love of chiptune hardware and things like MeeBlip). It's good for the soul. When I first started using Logic to record I was so blown away I took a year just figuring out how *I* wanted to use it and get what I want out of it. I couldn't manage to finish a single track as I had so much choice I couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Now I'm comfortable.
It happens with hardware too though I'm sure.. You gotta get the biggest modular rack you can then not know what to do with it.

[DVYDRNS]

agreed. it took me a while to decide what i liked. and now i pretty much have my go to template that i've put together. things i know i like. But it took a long time to get there. now when i sit down tho i can start working right away.

I also had to teach myself how to just write a good song too tho. or a good hook. or a good beat. lots of time ill sing along and play my controller with a basic piano sound. and then start producing once i have the basic idea down.

[Leviathant]

The so-called "Moog Sound" is kind of like plugging a Les Paul into a Marshall stack. An easy, yet somehow satisfying default. When I messed around with the Voyager XL in the lab where my wife's getting her PhD in composition, I was like, "Ooooooh." I didn't have to do anything and it sounded like the sound palette from Switched On Bach, something none of my equipment at home could do. And if you want that sound, that's your quick fix. Drop a couple of grand on some variety of Minimoog - just like dropping several grand on a Les Paul and a Marshall will immediately give you that particular sound.

What you do with it, however, is what is really important.

I started getting interested in this field as the late 90s virtual analog explosion was going on, and you'd see these dudes on Analogue Heaven waxing on about what toys these grooveboxes were, and how Rebirth doesn't sound enough like a REAL 303, and no real musician would use this cheap crap to make music.

It's funny to see those same people go on about how amazing The Fragile was. I wonder if any of those guys ever read about the gear Trent used to record that - Roland Grooveboxes, Rebirth (for The Way Out Is Through, no less), that circuit bent SK-1 he has, the Quasimidi Rave-o-Lution driving Starfuckers, recording to digital... all big no-nos. And you read all this shit about how to record acoustically, how you have to treat the room - and in every NIN studio shot from forever ago, dude just uses a mic in his big buzzy studio, no real effort to isolate sound or anything like that... I don't see anyone saying he could have made a better album if he'd stuck to high-end gear -- not that there was a shortage of high end gear either, of course. But I was happy to learn the lesson very early on that it's not always what you have so much as what you do with it.

[Jinsai]

well, just so nobody gets me wrong, I'm not saying that software sucks, or that it's even "inferior" to hardware (in the general statement sense).

Still, Rebirth does NOT sounds like a real 303, but the distinction depends on what you're doing with it. You can do amazing things in Rebirth, but it cannot do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUet8XYs5dg

I never want to sound like I'm siding on the hardware purist side of things, but these hardware tools do have their purposes. The minimoog is also not just for those distinct classic sounds. You can do some truly amazing things with it. Still, there's things you can do with software synths that no hardware synth can match. I've been building pads from resampled feedback in Absynth, and no hardware synth I've seen gives me the flexability to do what I'm doing with that.

Every tool has its uses. Even the first synth that I bought, the Quasimidi Sirius. It's super dated by today's standards, it's incredibly limited, but I can still do some unique things, especially with my approach, that I cannot pull off in more expensive hardware or cheaper (or more expensive by today's standards) software. Back when I bought that thing, software synthesis on your home computer was a new thing, and it was incredibly limited. I was recording my tracks on a cassette-based 4-track for a long time before I moved to a computer DAW. Kids today don't know how good they have it. If, back then, you'd shown me Massive running on my home PC, my head would have exploded.

Still, if we were to get into a discussion about digital vs analog distortion FX, that's a completely different discussion. I'll just say that analog distortion is required 99% of the time.

[liquidcalm]

Slightly off the topic of hardware vs software. I do love seeing it when bands auction off their equipment and people go "hey, they were using Line 6 PODs? but those are cheap?!". NIN was no exception I mean sure they had some costly stuff backing them up too (Reznor is Reznor afterall) but I remember seeing Pitchshifter sell a load of gear and it was all cheap BOss pedal knockoffs and Line 6. And it didn't matter one bit because they still were an awesome live band who sounded awesome. You see Korg Mini's everywhere on stages.
There is a certain snobbishness that goes with hardware that just doesn't translate to the actual production of music and 'playing' music live. As I said I'm not a fan of laptop performers, but at least that person is up there thinking 'What I'm doing on this is worth my time and the audiences'* rather than hiding at home with £10,000 worth of power sucking vintage equipment.

*could also be thinking "ha, these suckers are falling for it, I'm just checking my emails"

[Fixer808]

Rebirth (for The Way Out Is Through, no less)
Rebirth?! That's awesome! But yeah, it really depends on how you're using it. I used to use Buzz way back in the day, but with processing in my friend's studio, and we got some good sounds outta that program.

[DVYDRNS]

I generally find the people who tend to go on and on about how terrible software is, aren't actually making music.

I had a roommate who would save all this money and buy all this awesome gear... And I've never actually heard one song he's made with any of it. This was back in the early 2000's

That shit used to piss me off to no end.

I just recently found out he's still doing the same thing with a higher budget... And red cameras. Wtf.

He ripped on me for pirating acid and fl studio and having a stupid guitar pod.

But I had 2 albums worth of demos.

Now I can afford logic and komlpete and if I wanted a bunch of hardware. But I tend to just stick with logic and komlpete nowadays.

[Fixer808]

I know a guy who was constantly masturbating about the Red cam. How many movies has he shot now? Approximately zero? Whereas another friend has shot three. Three feature films on HD tape. It's not the tech, it's what you do with it.

[jmtd]

I'm basically hamstringing myself by trying to avoid computers here. The reason is my other big hobby which I'm really tiring of now is/was open source software, Linux etc., and I work in IT as a day job, so music making is meant to be a tonic to all that. But I think I'm setting myself up to fail. Plan B is to set up my old laptop as a pure music machine. Hopefully it's powerful enough to do what I want with…

Yesterday I decided to try and learn more of the Micron and not write my own stuff but recreate sounds from other songs. I'm a little loath to do that in general but I can understand trying to detach improving ones technical skills from the act of creating afresh. I started with HLAH's bass line since I can remember how to play it and I had PHM on earlier on in the weekend. After only 10 minutes of tweaking I managed to get something very close and I was very happy (the key ingredient seemed to be a 'comb' filter rather than LP). I later read and enjoyed a stupid thread somewhere where someone was insisting that you had to own a Prophet VS to get a sound anywhere near it. My faith in this kit might be a little bit restored.

This is fast becoming my favourite ETS thread btw. Thanks to all!

[Jinsai]

I generally find the people who tend to go on and on about how terrible software is, aren't actually making music.

I've known some people like that. They collect massive amounts of vintage gear, short run rare synthesizers, spend thousands on top end hardware compressors etc... and then never learn how to use any of the stuff, let alone actually make a track with it. I think some people just assume that if they buy a ton of crazy equipment, the tracks will just make themselves.

On the other end of things, I've seen people get into a "gotta catch em all" attitude with warez. They collect every plugin that's ever been made, then spend absolutely no time learning how to take advantage of the software. With most of the good software, it takes some time to familiarize yourself with the layout and understand what it's capable of. Even relatively simple effect plugins require some patience and study to understand what they really shine at.

Options are great if you take advantage of them, hardware or software, but you can do amazing stuff under extreme limitations. I know someone who works exclusively in Reason, and his mastery of the program has really opened my eyes the possibilities of what that software can do.

On a side note, any Cubase users out there? I just installed version 7 on my computer, and never before have I found the installation process to be such a pain in the ass. If you're going to require me to use a dongle, please make the online registration and authentication process a breeze. Instead, they give me two different serial numbers, (one of which apparently does nothing?), then make registering the software a confusing process... I'm currently stuck in a situation where it says I've already made an account, but when I try to log in (or request login password info to my email) it says "no account with that login name exists. What the hell?

[Stereo75]

I found a little midi sequencer program that is a hell of a lot of fun & extremely simple to use:

http://www.filter24.org/seq24/

[Leviathant]

I'm basically hamstringing myself by trying to avoid computers here. The reason is my other big hobby which I'm really tiring of now is/was open source software, Linux etc., and I work in IT as a day job, so music making is meant to be a tonic to all that. But I think I'm setting myself up to fail. Plan B is to set up my old laptop as a pure music machine. Hopefully it's powerful enough to do what I want with…

As a web developer I spend all day programming in front of two screens. So it's no wonder that, coming from a background of making music on computers, I worked less and less on music when it meant coming home and sitting in front of two monitors and programming. So I started moving outboard. The Tempest is a dream to program rhythm on. I can do all kinds of fun stuff live on my MS2000. Likewise my humble but effective guitar collection. I've been trying to make music that I can perform without interacting with the computer, which helps bring back the excitement of creating, without the fatigue of sitting in front of a computer even more hours of my day. And when I want to hit record, I interact with Vegas through my ProjectMix IO.

This has forced me to keep my outboard arsenal fairly minimal, which I think helps keep me from diving into the sound-design deep end, which is fun and all, but not as satisfying as recording and finishing a god damn song.

That said, most of what I've been recording recently has been live drums, with my wife on Mandocaster (http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/Other/mandocaster/mandocaster_frm.htm) and vocals. I've got one or two songs that use electronics for our little band, but they're not quite ready for prime time.

[DVYDRNS]

I hear ya on that. I think my thing to tho is that I'm on the road 6 months out of the year. So I've gotten very accustomed to programming on a MacBook Pro.

That's another benefit for me. To be able to sit in a hotel room or on a friends couch with headphones and create.

[Jinsai]

The Tempest is a dream to program rhythm on.

So, Dave Smith Instruments' facebook page just shared this flickr set...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/leviathant/sets/72157632463815051/

I'm assuming that's yours?

[Leviathant]

So, Dave Smith Instruments' facebook page just shared this flickr set...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/leviathant/sets/72157632463815051/

I'm assuming that's yours?

The 'leviathant' in the URL gave it away huh? Yup - I am the proud owner of that machine and even more proud owner of it's new case :) It was on Matrixsynth on Monday (http://m.matrixsynth.com/2013/01/dsi-tempest-and-cari-lite-custom-case.html), as well.

[Fixer808]

That is a good sounding machine and a dang snazzy case!
Also, was looking on Vintagesynth.com, the DSI Prophet '08 is hella-fat sounding. Gear-lust rising...

[jmtd]

DAWs then. Any reaper fans here? I'm going to try reaper and fl studio first, as a beginner. I did have a quick look at Renoise (on my Linux laptop) but suspect I'd be better off with one of the more popular ones. No regular mac access ATM so GarageBand ruled out, although iOS garageband is an option. My current plan is to do some light arrangement work on recorded sessions of synth freestyling... Initially record a few minutes of a tone, then layer another tone and try to do minimal editing work, then layer another Etc. heck I might stick to audacity to start with.

[Leviathant]

If I weren't so entrenched in Sony Vegas, I would probably be using Reaper.

[DVYDRNS]

Reaper is cool. I think ardour (http://ardour.org) is nice too. Works on Mac windows and Linux.

In fact it's so good, that If my Native Instruments Komplete worked in Ubuntu, I'd probably switch over 100%.

I rely on the Komplete package for way too much of my work.

[DVYDRNS]

Leviathant I'm curious why you use Vegas for music making? I thought that was primarily a video editing app? why not use Acid or some other DAW? Not finding fault with you, just legitimately curious!

[jmtd]

Whilst I'm going to have to dive into using computers for this, unavoidable really, I really want to avoid Linux for music making… both because it's too close to home (work) and my (former) hobbies, but also because - let's face it - whilst there are some good apps with Linux support (Ardour, Renoise) the big picture for interoperability, plugin support, consistent user interface and basic walk-up-to-it-and-get-to-work is terrible. Also I don't use Windows much so it's a bit refreshing to only be exposed to it for music making (and slacking off. Finally an opportunity to fire up steam again. D'oh!)

OTOH, if I pick up a more portable HW synth, I might use a basic four-track style app on my iphone or android tablet to layer stuff, simply because I can then work in different rooms if my significant other is working in our study. (or I can work on the train, or in coffee shops on my lunch break, or at a friends…) I doubt that I could do any other serious DAW-like work on a portable device though.

[Leviathant]

@Leviathant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1) I'm curious why you use Vegas for music making? I thought that was primarily a video editing app? why not use Acid or some other DAW? Not finding fault with you, just legitimately curious!

No, totally legitimate question, as Vegas does at first glance appear to be an odd choice for DAW. You would think that if Sony were my bag, I'd be using Acid, right?

I started using Vegas at version 2 or 3. Prior to that, I would - not kidding - use copy and paste mix in Sound Forge to 'multitrack' recordings that I made against tracks that I 'composed' (I hesitate to use that word because my wife's getting her PhD in composition). Sound Forge was awesome. Is still awesome. Vegas was the guys from Sound Forge going multitrack, how could I not try that out? The early versions of Vegas had very rudimentary video editing, but I didn't much care about that until many years later when I started messing around with video, and boy was it handy to have that available.

I remember when Acid came out, I gave it a try, and it felt like a scaled back version of Vegas. I couldn't really understand why I should bother using that when I already had an environment to work within.

The possible answer to that question might have been "Because Acid has MIDI", but given how I started out with audio editing on the computer, I actually, in a weird way, use it like a tape machine. In Sound Forge, I was essentially overdubbing. In Vegas, it was multichannel, and super-easy splitting and splicing. Any sequencing I did was external, either on a hardware drum machine, or in, say, Reason. I'd export to audio, and then mangle it in Vegas.

Where I started to feel the pain was when I wanted to do things like dynamic tempo changes. Sometime around the time Cubase SX came out (and while it still sucked, it was a huge improvement over Cubase VST) and at some point I discovered the Tempo Envelope, where you could slide down to a new tempo, change time signatures on the fly... Reason couldn't do that on its own, my drum machines couldn't do that. Mind you, I don't know if I actually recorded/released anything that did anything too fancy with the tempo, but I was starting to see how sticking with Vegas was going to restrict me.

Around that time, I joined a shitty (I say that affectionately) punk band. MIDI schmidi. All I needed were tracks and speed, and Vegas provided. Not long after that, I bought a fixer-upper of a house, and for a number of stupid reasons, the band broke up, and I didn't really make any music for a number of years. However, Melissa's composing career launched, and I took to recording both video & audio of performances of her pieces, and after one of my promos for one of her works was played on the Rachel Maddow Show, I decided I was long overdue to pay for the damn software. That was Vegas 9, I've since upgraded to 10 and again to 12.

A year ago, we finished the fixer-upper house & rented it out, and I started making music again. I've recorded a couple of songs with Melissa under the title "Up Your Cherry" (a play on "a piacere"), although I've only managed to get her to record vox for a single track, we've played a number of shows, and damnit, we will have at least an EP's worth of tracks up on Bandcamp before the year is through. Since we have to perform live, I keep the instrumentation live-oriented: Drum kit, drum machines, vocals, and mandocaster (http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/Other/mandocaster/mandocaster_frm.htm). The recorded tracks have bass too - but I've only played bass at a live UYC performance once so far, for a single track. That track actually switches from 7/4 to 6/4 near the end of it, but handily my DSI Tempest can do that without blinking, so I was able to set that to go autopilot while I brought up the bottom.

I never liked Cubase. When I finally tried Pro-Tools, I came to the conclusion that people are brainwashed. What a piece of shit DAW. I must confess I haven't used FL-anything since back when it was called FruityLoops. It's not fair to them at all, but whenever I see "FL Studio" I read it as Fruity Loops Studio. Apple bought Logic and killed the Windows version, so fuck you Apple. I came from a tracker background, so most MIDI sequencers in the late 90s came across as woefully inadequate, given the lack of control and the horrible interface. I'm sure they were fine if you could play the black and whites, but I never got into that, so Cubase and Cakewalk and the like were horrible. Reason was the first thing that came out that convinced me that there had been some evolution in usability since trackers, and I used that for a few years, often rendering it into chunks to effect later in Vegas. Inefficient, perhaps, but I also prefer individual effects pedals to a multi-fx unit.

I tried Reaper out a couple of times over the years - early on, it was passable. More recently, I feel like it's caught up with Vegas in both usability and, what, UX? UI? Information display. And instead of video editing, it has MIDI. And it's Justin Frankel, the fucking dude who made Winamp, Shoutcast & gnutella. The licensing for Reaper is pitch-perfect, and essentially reflects how I used Vegas, except the way I used Vegas involved cracks, up until I made money with the result, and then I started paying: that's against their silly rules. Reaper's philosophy to pricing is spot-on how I'd do it if I sold my company to AOL for dozens of millions of dollars in stock when I was in my early 20s and decided to keep making cool shit anyway. Heh. The guy has a fantastic combination of heart and ability, and I think that will drive Reaper to go places the other DAWs will have trouble keeping up with.

[Leviathant]

Unrelated to my previous post: You may have seen the news going around the tech sites last week, but Adobe essentially put their CS2 suite out there for free. This includes Adobe Audition, which I would probably recommend over Audacity, which - bless their hearts for trying, but it's still not as good as the shareware Goldwave editor I was using in 1995.

[liquidcalm]

Adobe Audition was basically what became of Cool Edit Pro right? If so I may have to at least go back and have a poke, when I was first interesting in making noises, and eventually 'music', Cool Edit Pro 2 was the only thing I had run in a stable enough fashion. I loved that program to pieces.

[DVYDRNS]

I think they pulled it down? I think it was a mistake.

[liquidcalm]

still there: http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html

[jmtd]

Unrelated to my previous post: You may have seen the news going around the tech sites last week, but Adobe essentially put their CS2 suite out there for free. This includes Adobe Audition, which I would probably recommend over Audacity, which - bless their hearts for trying, but it's still not as good as the shareware Goldwave editor I was using in 1995.

I hadn't seen that actually — thanks.

[kenthebear]

I think they pulled it down? I think it was a mistake.

It wasn't a mistake, but you're supposed to have a license to use it - they took down the activation servers I think, so this is a replacement.

so if you download it without a license, you might as well just download CS6 because they're the same in terms of legality.

[DVYDRNS]

in other news, I have fallen in love with the ARP 2600 V by arturia (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/arp2600v/intro.html). holy crap. this little plugin is rad...

[Jinsai]

in other news, I have fallen in love with the ARP 2600 V by arturia (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/arp2600v/intro.html). holy crap. this little plugin is rad...

Yeah, that's a pretty great plugin.

Lately I've been tempted to purchase Synplant. I've been getting some great squeely sounds out of the demo, and the UI is a nice break from convention, even if it is a little perplexing (especially at first).

[DVYDRNS]

I just got sylenth because of a project im working on, going through the basic presets, I think I can re create the entire lady gaga album.

[Jinsai]

I got the demo for Sylenth a while back and I remember being really impressed with it (especially for the price), but I couldn't justify the purchase at the time because I already had a load of synths that (for me at least) seemed to accomplish what it was capable of. Every now and again I'm tempted to look at it again.

[Jinsai]

I'm sitting here with my credit card, trying to convince myself to just bite the bullet and upgrade to Ableton Live 9.

[Leviathant]

I'm sitting here with my credit card, trying to convince myself to just bite the bullet and upgrade to Ableton Live 9.

There are five very important words that keep me saving money over and over again. "I do not need this." Put the credit card away, you're doing fine with whatever version of Ableton you have.

[DVYDRNS]

Really Excited for KOMPLETE 9. Might finally upgrade from 6 which has been very good for my needs. But is feeling a bit long in the tooth...

http://www.macosxaudio.com/front/2013/03/native-instruments-komplete-9-unkloaked/

[Jinsai]

yeah, I'm still on Komplete 5. The new version of Battery looks very interesting though...

[DVYDRNS]

I just installed Live 9.. (its already cracked) its decent for sure.. i think i'm still gonna stick with Logic tho...

[Jinsai]

I just installed Live 9.. (its already cracked) its decent for sure.. i think i'm still gonna stick with Logic tho...

Logic w/ Ableton rewired = real ultimate power :)... That's the best of all worlds, as long as you bounce the audio from Live into Logic and don't leave your mixes in stasis, in which case they turn into a nightmare over time. Some things are just so much faster to do in Ableton imo.

[DVYDRNS]

I'm reading about that. Interesting..

[wizfan]

If you guys are using 64-bit Ableton 9, install Jbridge to make your 32-bit VST plugins function with it.

[kenthebear]

Have we talked about Aalto yet? Literally the best VSTi ever made, I will not hear arguments, sorry.

You can get a 'lite' version (idk what makes it lite, one voice maybe?) for free:
http://www.ohdratdigital.com/free-stuff/free-software/free-synth-madronna-labs-aalto-solo/

The full version has patches from mr. cortini with it, so you can half fulfill those dreams of being in nin and staring at the back of trent's head.

[DVYDRNS]

Aalto is pretty sweet indeed. I'm using it on a track for War Widow right now.

[wizfan]

The full version has patches from mr. cortini with it, so you can half fulfill those dreams of being in nin and staring at the back of trent's head.

Or make a SONOIO tribute album. ;) Thanks!

[wizfan]

jBridge frustrated the hell out of me. I used it to bridge 32-bit VSTs into the 64-bit version of Ableton 9. They did work, but it was impossible for me to record automations, or even tweak them inside the project with envelopes. In the end, I had to install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Ableton.

[Jinsai]

I've been getting into embracing different workflows into various stages of assembling a song, but with the end limitation that each step can only take two hours before I move on... it's been a little difficult with the start because I'm most unfamiliar with the program, but I've been doing 1. Renoise -> 2. Live w/ Renoise rewired -> 3. Live w/ Reason rewired -> 4. Logic w/ Live rewired -> 5. hardware + plugin synths into Logic -> 6. Final mix and production in Logic

The hardest part I think will be to not cheat on the last step and spend a week meticulously messing with things. Anyone else in here have experience w/ tracker programs like Renoise? It's such a different way of thinking about things.

[Leviathant]

Renoise is a complete, expandable Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) with a refreshing twist. It lets you record, compose, edit, process and render production-quality audio using a tracker-based approach. Oh man. I've pretty much lost all of my tracker chops, but I'm still happy to see something like this come about. I've never felt more in control of the music I was writing as I did using Impulse Tracker. Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).

[Jinsai]

Oh man. I've pretty much lost all of my tracker chops, but I'm still happy to see something like this come about. I've never felt more in control of the music I was writing as I did using Impulse Tracker. Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).

After I got over the initial frustration and started to learn how the whole program/approach was laid out, I've been finding myself newly inspired. I've had friends recommending trackers to me for years, and it's always seemed counterintuitive to me, but finally I think I'm a convert.

I'd recommend Renoise to anyone. The software is free, and if you want to be able to rewire it or render your audio it's 50 bucks to own it... and while there's shortcomings, you can really do some insane things here.

[Fixer808]

Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).
I love Reason, but for some reason it refuses to work on my new computer. Windows 8 issue, maybe...?

[Pillfred]

Anyone recommend a good starting point for nearly a total noob? I'm looking to maybe broaden my hobby base and im thinking maybe this is something i could try and get back into. I have very limited experience in sound editing etc. I did some basic editing a few years back when i was doing a radio show and around that time played a bit with fruity loops, acid, and a couple others audition i think is what i settled on for basic mucking about. I tried to get into some of the other facets but as i didn't know wtf i was dong i quickly became lost in a sea of plugins and filters. I did however spend a fair bit of time working on a janky remix of With Teeth after the samples were released for Garageband however many years ago. Basically what i am looking for is perhaps some helpful resources and maybe a couple programs that a newby like myself may be able to use. I do still have some older version of stuff but they are all for windows and my pc is currently not up and running.

[Jinsai]

Anyone recommend a good starting point for nearly a total noob? I'm looking to maybe broaden my hobby base and im thinking maybe this is something i could try and get back into. I have very limited experience in sound editing etc. I did some basic editing a few years back when i was doing a radio show and around that time played a bit with fruity loops, acid, and a couple others audition i think is what i settled on for basic mucking about. I tried to get into some of the other facets but as i didn't know wtf i was dong i quickly became lost in a sea of plugins and filters. I did however spend a fair bit of time working on a janky remix of With Teeth after the samples were released for Garageband however many years ago. Basically what i am looking for is perhaps some helpful resources and maybe a couple programs that a newby like myself may be able to use. I do still have some older version of stuff but they are all for windows and my pc is currently not up and running.

I would actually recommend Ableton Live, but I guess it depends on what your budget is?

[Pillfred]

Don't really have a budget in mind, the cheaper the better i suppose but ill look into it for sure.

[jmtd]

DIVA - Dinosaur Impersonating Virtual Analog Synthesizer

http://www.u-he.com/cms/diva

I don't know if this is hokum but in another context I heard a little about circuit simulation in software and things like the virtual 6502 simulator - http://www.visual6502.org/JSSim/ - apparently the DIVA thing uses that sort-of approach and this is kind-of new for these things. I haven't fired it up yet - never tied a VST before - but going to give it a go. Anyone tried it?

[Jinsai]

DIVA

I've never used it before, but U-he makes quality stuff.

[Jinsai]

Ok, my mind is officially blown. I just finished up a master class on Ableton, and this changes everything. I'd never really understood the greatness of Max for Live until today, and now I'm going through how to write scripts to add further customizable control of the session view. How did I not know about this stuff until now?

[Jinsai]

btw, a recent shortcut to OSX that I just discovered, if you hold option and click on the "speaker icon" in the top right (what you usually go to to adjust volume), you can quick-swap select your audio interface.

This little feature has made my everyday life experience better.

Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.

[jmtd]

btw, a recent shortcut to OSX that I just discovered, if you hold option and click on the "speaker icon" in the top right (what you usually go to to adjust volume), you can quick-swap select your audio interface.

This little feature has made my everyday life experience better.

It's a god send. (Oh man I remember what a nightmare this is on Linux)


Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.

That's awesome, thanks. One day I might look into changing that noise.

[Jinsai]

so, are there any Pro Tools users in here? I've finally decided to sit down and learn this thing, and I don't see why it's so "objectively better" than Logic. Maybe the first thing I need to know is WHAT CAN IT DO that Logic cannot? Outside of the "fake consolidating" feature (which is awesome) and the ability to print effects to selected segments, and the "fly to" function, I'm not entirely sold.

I keep hearing that Pro Tools has a more "transparent" sound, and that Logic (and other programs) "color" the sound of your projects. Is there any... science behind this claim?

[Leviathant]

There have been threads on gearslutz about pan law and summing algorithms, but that's more about mixing levels and less about color. Given the effort behind writing plugins that DO color your sound, if there were any truth to "ProTools sounds better than more affordable DAWs" I would count on there being subtle built-in DSP in ProTools, with the newer DAWs being completely uncolored, because in the digital domain, being transparent is the easier programming choice. But there isn't any truth to ProTools sounding better than more affordable DAWs. If you want to tumble down that path, I'd probably start with doing mixdown in something like a Phoenix Nicerizer... another one of those things that is pricey enough and seemingly subtle enough that cursory searching didn't yield me any A/B audio tests, only people gushing about the magic it works when you use it to mix rather than mixing ITB. It's intriguing to me, but not $3000 intriguing, not unless my music makes me $6000. Which it doesn't.

When I tried ProTools, I was pretty astonished at how limited it was, not to mention how convoluted and user unfriendly it was. Of course, this is the software that just a few years ago, shot an ad with some of their users exclaiming about how great it was that they could finally put ProTools on their laptops and work on their mixes while not being in the studio. (This was 2-4 years ago). What you get with a ProTools pedigree is the possibility of working in a professional field. Big movie studios don't use Reaper. Big music studios don't use Logic. ProTools cornered that market and spoke to it on its terms before there was anything else like it. You used to need expensive dedicated hardware to do what modern, sub-$1000 DAWs do.

[bgalbraith]

Just wanted to say I *finally* used my Akai MPK-25 to create audio for a song we are working on. I still don't really know how to use Ableton Live Lite properly, and ended up running the initial bass riff through a loop pedal because I couldn't figure out how to create a MIDI loop on the fly, but it sounded nice. At this point I use Reaper for recording/downmixing, Guitar Pro for scoring and arranging, and now Abelton Live Lite for MIDI, all on an older MacBook Pro. All cheap and powerful enough for where we currently are as a band.

[Mantra]

You used to need expensive dedicated hardware to do what modern, sub-$1000 DAWs do.
Yeah, when I worked at a recording studio (roughly 9 years ago) this was the primary advantage that Pro-Tools had over other DAWs. Sure, when it came to small/home studios you could just pick whichever DAW felt more inspiring or easy to use, because at that level the interface and programming abilities of any particular DAW were just a matter of personal taste. But for a huge professional studio that needed to track 30-something audio inputs in a single take, it just seemed like Pro-Tools (and the hardware it worked with, of course) was the only product that could reliably deliver what was needed. Or at least that's the way it seemed to me at the time based on what others were saying (I wasn't exactly an expert on the subject, to be perfectly honest).

I drifted away from the music production world a long time ago, and I've only loosely followed the DAW scene, so I really don't know much these days. But my suspicion is that with each passing year the stories about Pro-Tools' superiority becomes less of a technical reality and more of a loyalty to brand name tradition.

[Jinsai]

I drifted away from the music production world a long time ago, and I've only loosely followed the DAW scene, so I really don't know much these days. But my suspicion is that with each passing year the stories about Pro-Tools' superiority becomes less of a technical reality and more of a loyalty to brand name tradition.


This seems to pretty much sum it up for me so far. I've found a handful of features that PT has which are pretty nice and are obvious time savers, and then I run into a workflow obstruction that seems completely ridiculous, and only probably still exists because "that's the way it's always been, and if they change it they'll piss everyone off." I've run into some strange assertions lately though... people who literally scoff at the idea of mixing down a track in Logic or Sonar or Cubase or DP or whatever. The attitude almost implies that it "cannot be done" properly in other programs, which is just all kinds of bullshit.

Now, practically every major DAW can handle tons of tracks simultaneously recording in a single take if you have the right hardware.

So far, what I like about Pro Tools:
- you can create "fake" consolidated group regions without actually having to create a new audio render... though with logic you have folders etc, and these can accomplish sort of the same thing.
- you can apply a greater range of printable effects and processing to individual portions of audio.
- the "fly to" function is nifty. It's not like the same thing can't be achieved otherwise, but it's cool.
- you can freely and independently organize your mixer and arrange windows... though many programs offer similar organization features. Logic is bizarrely behind the times on this one, I'll admit.
- ummmmmmmmmm... the batch fade function is cool? The non-destructive strip silence function is pretty nifty...? The ability to be able to run the full 800 dollar version of pitch and time is cool, if I had that money? Similarly, I'm sure it'd be fun and cute to own an HD rig, but...

On the flip side, it cannot:
- allow you to freely configure it any way you want that works best for you and set up your own hot keys
- its shortcut hotkeys are convoluted and strange, and seemingly for the most part based in absolutely no intuitive assignment
- it has no real modes for immediate quick load settings for simple routing outside of template arrangements. you have to set up everything manually
- no AU or VST support, where on the other hand, EVERY developer makes both the PT and AU/VST versions, but sometimes not the PT version
- work without a fucking dongle. This, in my opinion, makes it somewhat UNRELIABLE for sessions. My iLok has screwed up on me. What now?
- setting up your audio interface configurations is a total bastard, and Pro Tools fails to remember your preferences here for some unthinkable reason.
- the mouse scroll/swipe zoom feature is set up so stupidly. Hold option and slide one way, it zooms left and right. Slide the other way, it increases/decreases waveform view! Hold control up/down, it zooms vertically. There's no other way to do this. Hold control right/left, it does NOTHING. This is INSANE.
- You can't change your sample rate in a project and have Pro Tools up-convert current audio. lame, and completely unnecessary.
- It's lacking an endless slew of creative sequencing features that other programs offer.

I admit, I don't know it well enough to fully appreciate the ins and outs of what it excels at, but I also get the impression that a lot of people who tout its awesomeness don't know the full ins and outs of the competition. But, it's the industry standard, so....

[Mantra]

I also get the impression that a lot of people who tout its awesomeness don't know the full ins and outs of the competition. But, it's the industry standard, so....

Absolutely. I still hang out with the guys I used to work with and sometimes I'll ask them about other DAWs, and they usually know suprisingly little. They might dabble in them a little bit or read some stuff on gearlsutz, but that's mostly it. I've also found that a lot of engineers can be insufferable nerd-bros, so even if they don't know shit about the program they'll front like they know it inside and out, because they can't stand to admit that they're out of the loop. They gotta be an expert on everything, which is maybe why you hear all those weird claims about other DAWs.

That said, it's not really their fault that they're mostly unfamiliar with all the different DAWs out there. You'd think they would know more given that they're professionals, but their work hours are fucking brutal, at least 90 hours a week, sometimes well over 120. They barely have time to take a piss, let alone experiment with some cool new DAW. It's weird, but I'll bet that the casual hobbyist types are much better informed about the strengths and weaknesses of all the various DAWs, because they actually have free time to explore them. Pro engineers are sort of stuck on this Pro-Tools track, just because it would be kind of a nightmare to switch over, both in terms of the time it would take to learn a new DAW and because it would totally fuck up the standardization that helps make things run smoother.

[Jinsai]

is anyone in here interested in collaborating online on a project? We should make a gobbler ETS account (or a dropbox) and everyone who wants to should chip in.

[DVYDRNS]

Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate just got delivered. I had to pull the trigger on the cross grade purchase. Because I already have a Maschine, it only cost me 375.

Installing now. And very excited about it.

[Jinsai]

Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate just got delivered. I had to pull the trigger on the cross grade purchase. Because I already have a Maschine, it only cost me 375.

Installing now. And very excited about it.

I've been on the fence about upgrading to KUltimate. Right now there's a sale going on, and I can get the upgrade for 200 bucks (plus a student discount). Skanner XT, Razor, The Mouth, the Lexicon verb emulations, Driver, and all the orchestral sample banks make it tempting...

[DVYDRNS]

Yea I couldn't say no anymore :) Its awesome.

[screwdriver]

I've been on the fence about upgrading to KUltimate. Right now there's a sale going on, and I can get the upgrade for 200 bucks (plus a student discount). Skanner XT, Razor, The Mouth, the Lexicon verb emulations, Driver, and all the orchestral sample banks make it tempting...

I just did it
its pretty rad

[screwdriver]

is anyone in here interested in collaborating online on a project? We should make a gobbler ETS account (or a dropbox) and everyone who wants to should chip in.

totally in

[Conan The Barbarian]

So my drums seem to be buried in my mix. Any advice?

[DVYDRNS]

So my drums seem to be buried in my mix. Any advice?

Turn everything down. Then turn the drums up. Don't just crank the drums. And then add compression to the drums.

[Leviathant]

I typically mix my drums down to a stereo bus, compress to taste, try out some convolution reverbs because the rooms I'm stuck recording in have no drum sound (and the room you record in is probably more important than the kit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY-f68J5PPo)), then bring the volume of the other channels up until I find a good balance. For recording rock, I do tend to make the kick and snare notably louder, which in turn gets tamed when the master channel is limited. If your kick drum is fighting against your bass (synth or otherwise) you can do some creative EQing, boosting a band in the kick and cutting that band in the bass, or side-chaining a compressor on the bassline to the kick drum.

There's also this Google search (https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agearslutz.com+mixing+drums). A whole lot of crap, but a few good tips are there to be unearthed.

[butter_hole]

Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.
You can also remove that noise entirely in the settings. Also can change the increments in which it goes up and down with, I believe!

[DVYDRNS]

its silent by default in yosemite. which is nice.

[Jinsai]

its silent by default in yosemite. which is nice.

I know this is very late to respond, but I'm trying to figure out whether or not to update to Yosemite. Have you had any compatibility problems?

[DVYDRNS]

My mixer has had issues since the upgrade. but thats it. I'm running logic. I understand protools has massive issues with 10.10 Jinsai

[elevenism]

So who else has a zoom r24 other than Leviathant ?

I have drum polyphony issues...it thinks my beats are too complicated and can't play them right...it blows.
I have some solutions running through my head that i wanted to run by a fellow zoomer...and levi is a drummer, so he doesn't have this issue.

Also, who uses ACID (the daw, not the drug?)

i need a cheap software with a low learning curve that i can use to make nasty basslines, step recorded insanity, creepy noises, more drums, that sort of thing...i won't be recording onto it...i have my digital 24 track for that. the price is very attractive. I thought about buying a keyboard, but i don't intend to perform live with it, or like, play piano. I want it more for making loops. So i figured instead of dropping $500 on a synth, i'd try this out.

If not acid, does anyone have any other recommendations?
I'm looking for several voices and the capability of tweaking those voices...modulation changes, dubsteppy wubwubs, that sort of thing, the occasional synth line, pedal tones, and the ability to easily sequence this shit into loops that i can then record onto my 24 track.
I like to basically make electronic music and then play guitar and sing over it.

[Leviathant]

elevenism Check out Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/). Before there was Acid, there was Vegas, which is currently a video editor, but began its life as a multitrack audio editor. When Vegas went video, they re-purposed some of it into Acid, adding things like MIDI. But Acid didn't have all the bells and whistles that Vegas had. Enter Justin Frankel, who wrote Winamp, and was a Vegas user. Not happy with what happened to Vegas, he started writing Reaper as kind of a Vegas clone, and continued pushing it further. It's now my DAW of choice.

Re-reading your post, neither ACID nor Reaper are what you're looking for, necessarily. Have you ever looked into Reason (https://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/)? (BTW, "low learning curve" and "modulation changes, tweaking, wubs" do not really go hand in hand) Maybe dip your does into that world with Audiotool (http://www.audiotool.com/), which is an online program that's kinda like Reason. Orrr Caustic (http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/caustic). Decisions, decisions!

[elevenism]

@elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) Check out Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/). Before there was Acid, there was Vegas, which is currently a video editor, but began its life as a multitrack audio editor. When Vegas went video, they re-purposed some of it into Acid, adding things like MIDI. But Acid didn't have all the bells and whistles that Vegas had. Enter Justin Frankel, who wrote Winamp, and was a Vegas user. Not happy with what happened to Vegas, he started writing Reaper as kind of a Vegas clone, and continued pushing it further. It's now my DAW of choice.

Re-reading your post, neither ACID nor Reaper are what you're looking for, necessarily. Have you ever looked into Reason (https://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/)? (BTW, "low learning curve" and "modulation changes, tweaking, wubs" do not really go hand in hand) Maybe dip your does into that world with Audiotool (http://www.audiotool.com/), which is an online program that's kinda like Reason. Orrr Caustic (http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/caustic). Decisions, decisions!

well i don't need THAT low of a learning curve necessarily. i used things like goldwave and multiquence and such in the nineties, and am pretty well versed in step sequencing.

basically i just want something with a lot of voices and effects and filters with step recording and hopefully a lot of drum kits.

but i'm not going to record on the software...just create, say, a bass line, record out to the r24, trim, and loop.

so what do you suggest?

edit: "You will never run out of creative options with Reason’s vast collection of instruments and effects, all ready to be used in your music. They all look, feel and sound like their real-world counter-parts and are easy to understand with their simple layout, free of sub menus and cryptic interfaces."


that sounds like the hot ticket


edit again: ANNNNNNND fucksake, i can't afford $399 right now.
that's why i'm not getting a minovation and a dr rhythm.

[elevenism]

Sorry for the double post.

I used to use yamaha qy series sequencers.

I guess i'm kind of looking for a replacement for this.

I want to say, be able to input a bass line, note for note, you know? I would like to have several voices to choose from.

What software does this the best? maybe even fruity loops?

[Jinsai]

if you wanted a cheaper option that is incredibly powerful, maybe check out Renoise? You can download it and see if it works for you. Free to use, fifty bucks to own (and allows audio export and rewire at that point). It's got a tough learning curve, but there's a reason a lot of people use it. If you have the patience to sit through the tutorial videos, you will be rocking in no time. I can hook you up with some drum sample banks if you need.

[Jinsai]

Ok.... I really want this, right now. I just might need to do that. (https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/oscillot/)

[catiua]

Does anyone have experience with Pro Tools? I'm a Logic user and dabble into Live occasionally.. but have always been curious about Pro Tools. I know the idea of getting another DAW is redundant but I see that a lot of clients are used to Pro Tools.

[Jinsai]

Does anyone have experience with Pro Tools? I'm a Logic user and dabble into Live occasionally.. but have always been curious about Pro Tools. I know the idea of getting another DAW is redundant but I see that a lot of clients are used to Pro Tools.

If you want to record a traditional musical group in the traditional way, it is pretty much essential that you learn Pro Tools. It will be the main operating DAW in any pro studio you enter, and that's probably going to always be the case.

What does it offer that Logic does not? That's a tricky question, and it depends on the person and what they want to do with music, but the best answer I can come up with is: significantly less than Ableton Live. Or Reason. Or Renoise. Or even FL Studio. Those apps are all different enough from traditional DAWs and they excel at specific things.

Are you recording large sessions with lots of microphones?
Are you using a studio with a mixing desk and a lot of outboard gear?
Are you doing sound for film in any capacity? Do you want to?
Are you syncing analog tape to your session?

if you answered yes to any of those questions, you should probably learn Pro Tools. Just because. Just do it. Buy the software and learn it. You have to.

If not, stick with your primary DAW if it's working for you (Logic is great) and if you want to pick up another program, maybe go with something that offers incentives which would help you make the music you want to make.

If you want to work professionally in the music production world, you will have to learn Pro Tools though. The sooner the better. Personally, I love/hate Pro Tools, but you have to know how to use it, and be fairly proficient at it. There's some things to it that I like very much though... the grouping and organizational aspects are amazing and hard to do without. The full version of Pitch n Time is amazing and pretty much unbeatable. Audio editing workflow is fantastically optimized in Pro Tools, especially by comparison to Logic. Logic is simpler, more straight forward. PT is more clinical, confusing at first, but it's solid, reliable, and... and it's hard to explain the subtle ways that it is perhaps superior. If you learn the obnoxious shortcuts, you will start moving faster than Logic. Audio Suite's ability to instantly print effects onto a selected region is great. The tab-to-transient feature has Logic beat. It has a similar feature to Ableton, where you can just highlight a section of audio and gain/attenuate that portion non-destructively. This is the killer for me with Logic... having to worry about how so many of the basic features of audio editing are destructive. Similarly, the options with consolidating regions in PT is really awesome. Some of the other deeper features are great (the "fly-to" function is pretty amazing), and if you are fast on a number pad you can really start racing in PT, which is what people love about it. If you're doing conventional things with audio, Pro Tools can do it well, and if you're good at PT, it will be done faster and cleaner than it can be done anywhere else.

[catiua]

If you want to work professionally in the music production world, you will have to learn Pro Tools though. The sooner the better. Personally, I love/hate Pro Tools, but you have to know how to use it, and be fairly proficient at it. There's some things to it that I like very much though... the grouping and organizational aspects are amazing and hard to do without. The full version of Pitch n Time is amazing and pretty much unbeatable. Audio editing workflow is fantastically optimized in Pro Tools, especially by comparison to Logic. Logic is simpler, more straight forward. PT is more clinical, confusing at first, but it's solid, reliable, and... and it's hard to explain the subtle ways that it is perhaps superior. If you learn the obnoxious shortcuts, you will start moving faster than Logic. Audio Suite's ability to instantly print effects onto a selected region is great. The tab-to-transient feature has Logic beat. It has a similar feature to Ableton, where you can just highlight a section of audio and gain/attenuate that portion non-destructively. This is the killer for me with Logic... having to worry about how so many of the basic features of audio editing are destructive. Similarly, the options with consolidating regions in PT is really awesome. Some of the other deeper features are great (the "fly-to" function is pretty amazing), and if you are fast on a number pad you can really start racing in PT, which is what people love about it. If you're doing conventional things with audio, Pro Tools can do it well, and if you're good at PT, it will be done faster and cleaner than it can be done anywhere else.

Thanks, Jinsai! That was a very informative and detailed post. I do plan on recording local artists - a lot of people I met with in the past were only used to Pro Tools. My lack of experience with the DAW hindered the writing and production stages significantly. Also, personally I use a lot of outboard gear to record. I don't plan on doing any sound design for film or using analog tape, at least not anytime soon. To be honest, I avoided Pro Tools ever since I started making music and producing because it seemed overly complex. When I first got into music, I was only doing it to make music for myself, so I was drawn to Logic and Live. I love using Logic for producing and writing demos - Live for remixing and brainstorming ideas on the fly.

Your knowledge of all these DAWs is impressive. Thank you for your help! I plan on buying Pro Tools soon and learning. It's something I must adapt to since it's the most universal DAW.

[Substance242]

I'll put this here, interesting "Group Humanizer" instrument for Max for Live:
https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/james-holden-human-timing/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=ableton%2Fblog

There's a scientific research that musicians playing together are affecting each other so each small timing "error" is influencing everything that follows, and we like listening to that more than e.g. to each track recorded to click track separately without interaction, or even worse, everything perfectly quantised. "(...) stark difference in (intangible) feeling between any bands' jammed-out breakthrough LP and their painstakingly-constructed-in-an-expensive-studio final LP"

[Jinsai]

apparently NI is doing a deal right now for a free cross grade to Komplete 10 if you buy a Komplete Kontrol S series controller... which is a pretty big deal, and I might just have to go for it.

[elevenism]

Jinsai , can you tell me how the 0-127 CC74 Brightness values relate to cutoff, in terms of numbers?

i'm still losing my mind trying to enter shit into this sequencer without any damn knobs.

did you ever get that controller btw?

[ZRFTS]

Since I'm here, has anybody used Sytrus; I've recently mastered it and I find it to be the best synthisizer ever; I can create any sound with it, including drum snares, drum kicks and hi-hats. In fact I made an entire album with it, didn't go over well with certain people but it is an interesting release.

[Jinsai]

Since I'm here, has anybody used Sytrus; I've recently mastered it and I find it to be the best synthisizer ever; I can create any sound with it, including drum snares, drum kicks and hi-hats.

It looks nifty, but seeing as how it's PC-only, I probably won't be giving it a test drive any time soon... it looks similar in some ways to the FM8, which is a really great (but not very user friendly imo) plugin.

[elevenism]

i like sytrus.

i wish i had focused more on electronics instead of my guitar.

because i'm a DAMN good guitar player, but don't know midi. :(

i still make some dope ass patterns and such though.

[Jinsai]

i like sytrus.

i wish i had focused more on electronics instead of my guitar.

because i'm a DAMN good guitar player, but don't know midi. :(

i still make some dope ass patterns and such though.

I have a guitar to midi converter box and MIDI pickup on my guitar... just an idea. There's also that Jam Origin software. Not sure what happened with that...

[elevenism]

I have a guitar to midi converter box and MIDI pickup on my guitar... just an idea. There's also that Jam Origin software. Not sure what happened with that...

that is a damn good idea...i forgot about those things.
i used to love to fuck with them in the guitar store back when it was INSANELY revolutionary in the 90s

[Jinsai]

that is a damn good idea...i forgot about those things.
i used to love to fuck with them in the guitar store back when it was INSANELY revolutionary in the 90s

Yeah, now software is catching up, and hardware is maybe not even necessary soon at all. After all, if you play monophonic guitar lines into ableton, you can then reliably convert that to MIDI performance data.

[Archive_Reports]

Has anyone here snagged ProTools First? I downloaded/installed it but can't seem to get it up and running.

[Jinsai]

Has anyone here snagged ProTools First? I downloaded/installed it but can't seem to get it up and running.

I haven't heard of PT First before... I guess it's like a lite edition? I would assume (since this is Avid) that they still require the use of an iLok... but even then if the issue was iLok - related, you would get an error message about that? What happens when you try to boot it up, do you get an error message at least? Are you running on OSX or Windows?

[Archive_Reports]

I haven't heard of PT First before... I guess it's like a lite edition? I would assume (since this is Avid) that they still require the use of an iLok... but even then if the issue was iLok - related, you would get an error message about that? What happens when you try to boot it up, do you get an error message at least? Are you running on OSX or Windows?

All good questions. I'm running Windows and not getting any error messages. I thought it might be a PC performance issue but nothing else seems to be affected by it.

I open it up and go to start a new project and then nothing happens...it just sits there any all of the menu buttons are grayed out.

There are limitations but I have no idea what they are as I'm new to Pro Tools and Avid in general.

[Jinsai]

Pro Tools can be finicky to set up. A lot of other programs have a very friendly "here, let me do that for you" thing going on. Pro Tools just doesn't... so it can be hard to diagnose a problem. One of the first things to check is that your Audio I/O settings are proper and configured right... there's a core audio/midi application in Mac OSX that can help juggle Pro Tools into behaving better after you set up the PT aggregate audio. Are you using an audio interface?

Are you using an iLok? Does PT First require iLok?

I'm a little out of practice with Pro Tools (sad/embarrassing and I need to go back to it). But going in and setting up a new project I believe the shortcut was shift cmmd N. Then you tell it what kind of tracks you need and how many, and then it should open up the project.

[Jinsai]

any other Renoise users on here? I've finally set up a qwerty keyboard with sticker overlays for renoise shortcuts, and I've been trying to see how fast I can efficiently move around in here. The program is intimidatingly deep at first, but as I've gotten more familiar with it, I'm starting to see how it would be kind of hard to do without this.

[Leviathant]

any other Renoise users on here? I've finally set up a qwerty keyboard with sticker overlays for renoise shortcuts, and I've been trying to see how fast I can efficiently move around in here. The program is intimidatingly deep at first, but as I've gotten more familiar with it, I'm starting to see how it would be kind of hard to do without this.

I opened up Impulse Tracker for the first time in a very, very, very long time last week, and at first, I had no idea what I was doing. But slowly, the keyboard shortcuts came back to me.

Trackers provide ultimate control. You are writing assembly language for sound generation. The learning curve for the interface is definitely going to be even more steep if you don't have command line experience. However, once you've got the details worked out, there's really nothing else like it. I stopped working on trackers because Impulse Tracker's MIDI wasn't great, and the MIDI devices I used at the time weren't great either, and then softsynths came around. It wasn't until Reason came out that I felt like I had nearly the level of control over music creation that I had with trackers... still not as much by a good measure, but still, lots of control.

Renoise has been beckoning me from several different angles lately, and while I want to get away from the computer, I also feel like any hardware sampler I try to fit into my setup will just feel like a toy next to a proper tracker. And I haven't even used a tracker that supports VST, an API, MIDI, etc.

[Jinsai]

Renoise has been beckoning me from several different angles lately, and while I want to get away from the computer, I also feel like any hardware sampler I try to fit into my setup will just feel like a toy next to a proper tracker. And I haven't even used a tracker that supports VST, an API, MIDI, etc.

I would highly recommend it.

I just got a qwerty keyboard built for video game bashage as my Renoise controller, got the shortcut stickers for 6 bucks on Amazon, and I've been losing my mind ever since. Using it rewired into Ableton has completely changed the way I go about making music. It doesn't feel like there's a "computer" there, it feels like an instrument that you practice and perfect.

... with the added bonus of "if you're a really fast typist, then you've already been practicing this 'instrument' for thousands of hours"

Also, it's free up until the point where you want to bounce out your audio or rewire it... and even then the purchase price is 50 dollars. Everything about renoise has the right approach and is punk as fuck.

Also, it's the only application I've ever seen that allows you to use VST/AU plugins while it's in rewire mode. I don't understand why, but it's really interesting that so many "mainstream" applications cannot.

ALSO (in CAPS!) you can import your impulse tracker .it files into renoise! Just found this out, and have been digging through old tracker libraries.

[Archive_Reports]

Is there a product that can accurately mimic the microKorg sounds? I sold mine a while back but am in need of some of the patches and all I have is my trusty controller and Ableton.

[Jinsai]

Is there a product that can accurately mimic the microKorg sounds? I sold mine a while back but am in need of some of the patches and all I have is my trusty controller and Ableton.

Not sure if the sale is still going on, but this might help. It usually retails for 200, but there's a discount code at checkout that makes it 0.00 USD.

http://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/digital-synsations.html?utm_source=expert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Expert_Email_FREEDS_0915&mc_cid=1d7c870480&mc_eid=306f29a77e

Use code FREEDS at checkout. Hopefully it still works

[Archive_Reports]

Not sure if the sale is still going on, but this might help. It usually retails for 200, but there's a discount code at checkout that makes it 0.00 USD.

http://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/digital-synsations.html?utm_source=expert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Expert_Email_FREEDS_0915&mc_cid=1d7c870480&mc_eid=306f29a77e

Use code FREEDS at checkout. Hopefully it still works

It expired. I appreciate it though.

[Jinsai]

the public domain freely samplable library just got ten terabytes bigger (http://www.chartattack.com/news/2015/08/06/worlds-largest-natural-sound-archive/)

[elevenism]

the public domain freely samplable library just got ten terabytes bigger (http://www.chartattack.com/news/2015/08/06/worlds-largest-natural-sound-archive/)
badass.

i just found this. (http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/free-music-samples-download-loops-hits-and-multis-627820)
52,261 hits and loops, fair game for use and free to download.

[Jinsai]

has anyone else in here messed around with the new(ish) plugin VST/AU version of Renoise, Redux? At first I didn't really get the point, when you could (just as easily?) rewire Renoise into your host application (especially since Renoise somehow allows VST/AU usage in rewire mode), but I'm starting to see the usefulness for someone like me, and it's like the clouds are parting...

I'm just so much faster in Ableton and Logic than I am in Renoise, and Redux offers all of the features I use when rewiring it. There's a few limitations I've run into that have upset me a little, but overall, it's like having a modern tracker plug running with little CPU usage.

It would be nice if they offered a discount to registered Renoise users, but at the price they're charging it's hard to complain. If you've been interested in implementing a tracker format into your DAW for whatever reason, but don't want to deal with the technical wall that could imply, this is an amazing solution.

I've also been looking at getting a dedicated secondary monitor and tilting the axis sideways to run Reason in rewire mode. It looks like it could help part the creative gap (illusion to a certain degree?) you get with the computer approach to all of this...

Like this, w/ a large reason rack running on the right monitor:

http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/imac-with-external-vertical-display-orientation.jpg

[Leviathant]

Do it. I run Reaper fullscreen on a dualscreen using the White Tie Imperial theme, with my timeline in the left screen, and my right screen is all mixer. It's awesome.

[liquidcalm]

I just wanna put a shout out to Ableton. I resisted it for many years, wanting to do things my own way. Then eventually my iPad MIDI sequencer packed up and iOS bunged up my old ipad 2. So I thought fuck it, I'll put ableton on my laptop, ported my MIDI files, rearranged, then realised that this software is bloody amazing. So many great features (merging projects into live sets, live effects etc..) I'm just silly for holding out so long. I now can't wait to dig in and play more...

[Jinsai]

I just wanna put a shout out to Ableton. I resisted it for many years, wanting to do things my own way. Then eventually my iPad MIDI sequencer packed up and iOS bunged up my old ipad 2. So I thought fuck it, I'll put ableton on my laptop, ported my MIDI files, rearranged, then realised that this software is bloody amazing. So many great features (merging projects into live sets, live effects etc..) I'm just silly for holding out so long. I now can't wait to dig in and play more...

Ableton has evolved into an absolutely amazing program. It's probably my favorite environment to write in at this point.

Wait till you get into effect racks!

[Jinsai]

Ableton live 9.5 is crazy! The improvements to Simpler (warping and slicing functions) are amazing, and the new analog modeled filters... Best free update ever. Also I'm finally sold on the new Push controller. The link protocol for iOS devices...

[wizfan]

Ableton live 9.5 is crazy! The improvements to Simpler (warping and slicing functions) are amazing, and the new analog modeled filters... Best free update ever. Also I'm finally sold on the new Push controller. The link protocol for iOS devices...

Hell yeah. Just installed it, myself.

So, I was looking around for sample packs of any kind and I thought "why hasn't Trent released a sample pack with his signature amazing sounds?", but then I realized I can just chop up NIN multitracks. Especially Ghosts and The Slip, which are released under a Creative Commons license, so I can do whatever I want with them, since I myself release my stuff with the same license (I could do this to the game-sourced NIN multitracks as well, but I still respect the licenses shit). I'd love to use the Soundtoys plugins he has praised. And all the rest. (http://equipboard.com/pros/trent-reznor)

By the way, has anyone in the NIN-camp or friends of NIN released sample packs, plugins, presets etc.? I have an ultra-rare Telefon Tel Aviv drum kit. It's for Native Instruments' KORE Player in *.ksd format, but I can render it in WAV if anyone's interested.

Also, this guy (http://www.toontrack.com/product/modern-poprock-ezmix-pack/), who touts everywhere that he's worked with NIN. His only contribution I could find was that he edited the audio of Beside You In Time (using Nuendo, of all things).

And this is pretty spot-on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15SEoOE9P80

[Leviathant]

By the way, has anyone in the NIN-camp or friends of NIN released sample packs, plugins, presets etc.? I have an ultra-rare Telefon Tel Aviv drum kit. It's for Native Instruments' KORE Player in *.ksd format, but I can render it in WAV if anyone's interested.

Keith Hillebrandt released Useful Noise shortly after the Fragile. Here ya go (http://www.usefulnoiseonline.com/Useful%20Noise%20SOUNDWARE/index.html).

[Jinsai]

Soundtoys are an amazing company. You won't regret buying anything from them

[screwdriver]

Keith Hillebrandt released Useful Noise shortly after the Fragile. Here ya go (http://www.usefulnoiseonline.com/Useful%20Noise%20SOUNDWARE/index.html).

I use useful noise in pretty much everryyyyyyyyyyyyyyything I do

did not realize he had started making new ones. fascinating. thanks for the heads up

[Jinsai]

black friday deal, Waves TrueVerb plugin is free

[wizfan]

black friday deal, Waves TrueVerb plugin is free

And so are SoundToys LittleAlterboy, Soundmorph's DR01D, all of MaxSynth's VST's, and more. Check http://bedroomproducersblog.com for all the free stuff that came out this Friday. I've grabbed so many plugins I'll probably never use. :D

[Jinsai]

free Vinyl plugin from iZotope is now live. Now 64 bit. https://www.izotope.com/en/products/effects-instruments/vinyl/

[Jinsai]

the founder of Nomad Factory has passed away. The company is giving away their Bus Driver Compressor for free for a limited time in his honor.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/download-nomad-factorys-bus-driver-compressor-plugin-for-free-634337

[Jinsai]

there's another free plugin (free until March 10th) from iZotope (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/effects-instruments/ddly-dynamic-delay/)

[Substance242]

With some new iPads on the horizon, I am eyeing prices of first iPad Air. I never wanted to enter the Apple universe (knowing myself I'd have to explore all settings everywhere etc.), but the idea of playing with nice stuff like Korg Gadget anywhere is quite attractive... In the meantime, I discovered that Lemur exists also for my ordinary Android tablet, but first I'll try this cheaper option: http://www.humatic.de/htools/touchdaw/ - will require some PC configuration (rtpMidi at least), but looks like useful control surface for PC DAW.

[bgalbraith]

There was a competition to reinterpret a song from a game I play. I decided to go for a eurodance-inspired version, both because I thought it would be funny given the source material and so I could actually get some experience using Ableton Live 9 Lite. Everything was done using stock instruments/effects that come with Lite. Here is the end result: https://soundcloud.com/bgalbraith/night-in-the-brume-mega-moogle-mix.

This is my first attempt at actually putting something like this together, so comments and critiques are welcome. (There's also a very silly music video to go with it, but that's less relevant here).

[elevenism]

How is the sound of the verse vocals on telefon tel aviv's version of Where Is Everybody done?

[Mantra]

How is the sound of the verse vocals on telefon tel aviv's version of Where Is Everybody done?

I once thought it was done manually by carefully splicing up the audio file, processing each fragment individually, and constructing the entire thing bit by bit. But after playing with a few glitch plugins, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually just ran the whole vocal track through one of those to get the same effect. I've messed around a little with dblue's glitch (which is a free plugin, or at least it used to be) and gotten results that were not exactly the same, but somewhat similar.

[elevenism]

I once thought it was done manually by carefully splicing up the audio file, processing each fragment individually, and constructing the entire thing bit by bit. But after playing with a few glitch plugins, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually just ran the whole vocal track through one of those to get the same effect. I've messed a little around with dblue's glitch (which is a free plugin, or at least it used to be) and gotten results that were not exactly the same, but somewhat similar.
word.
i got a relatively well known texas dnb mc to rap on this beat i made, and i want to put effects on words here and there. i want it to be good.
it will be the most high profile thing i've ever worked on.

[elevenism]

In fact, sorry for double post, but is one of you guys interested in listening to my new track and bouncing some ideas off of me?

The music is mixed, and i'm very proud of it.

But the rapper...i think i need to add some effects here and there to spice it up-it's spacey sounding music and spacey subject matter.
Mantra ? wizfan ? Jinsai?

[Mantra]

In fact, sorry for double post, but is one of you guys interested in listening to my new track and bouncing some ideas off of me?

The music is mixed, and i'm very proud of it.

But the rapper...i think i need to add some effects here and there to spice it up-it's spacey sounding music and spacey subject matter.
@Mantra (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925) ? @wizfan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=94) ? @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272)?

Sure dude. :)

[wizfan]

In fact, sorry for double post, but is one of you guys interested in listening to my new track and bouncing some ideas off of me?

The music is mixed, and i'm very proud of it.

But the rapper...i think i need to add some effects here and there to spice it up-it's spacey sounding music and spacey subject matter.
@Mantra (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925) ? @wizfan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=94) ? @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) ?

Throw everything you like towards my direction. I'd be happy to help!

[Archive_Reports]

http://gizmodo.com/moog-packs-a-10-000-synthesizer-into-an-ios-app-1774430671

[Leviathant]

http://gizmodo.com/moog-packs-a-10-000-synthesizer-into-an-ios-app-1774430671

Much though I despise Apple, and despite having finally switched to Android this year (quite happily, still) this news has me inching just that much closer to the idea of getting an iPad.

[Archive_Reports]

Much though I despise Apple, and despite having finally switched to Android this year (quite happily, still) this news has me inching just that much closer to the idea of getting an iPad.

I bought an iPad for a couple of different Korg apps a few years ago. Didn't use them much, but they worked quite well and I was happy with the app purchases for sure.

[Substance242]

So, if you want to draw "The Presence" (http://www.nin.wiki/The_Presence)(Year Zero) into your music, Spectropaint in #ReaperDAW is here to help. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3XHN0LpA7o

[Jinsai]

I missed this discussion about iPad music making from a bit back, but seriously Patterning alone justifies the price of an iPad.

[wizfan]

I made an English-language tutorial on how to make a surround mix using Ableton Live!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4_UJpG0Hew

[slave2thewage]

Any recommended third-party plugins/audio units for Logic X?

[Substance242]

Bought iZotope Neutron (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mix/neutron.html) (basic one), should help with my mixing "skills" a bit. :-)

Also, in the meantime I also have my first Apple product, iPad Air, just because Korg Gadget, DM1 and Patterning (so far).

[DVYDRNS]

Maschine jam looks cool. Irritating that it's a different size than the studio. I'll probably get it tho and then upgrade to the jam studio in a year..

[Archive_Reports]

https://reverb.com/item/3261316-akai-professional-mpk49-usb-midi-keyboard-w-2-tier-stand-case

Selling a thing.

[elevenism]

okay there is this part of this rasputina song that i want to shamelessly steal, this noise.
it's the droning pig-like sound in the chorus. it sounds kind of like the noise in reptile.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLS7ihfwXqQ
Can one of you tell me how to recreate it?
@Leviathant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1) @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) @wizfan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=94) Mantra

it was, i think, made by Chris Vrenna, hence the nin similarity.

It's like the last thing i need for this new song, and the help would be much appreciated.

[Jinsai]

okay there is this part of this rasputina song that i want to shamelessly steal, this noise.
it's the droning pig-like sound in the chorus. it sounds kind of like the noise in reptile.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLS7ihfwXqQ
Can one of you tell me how to recreate it?
@Leviathant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1) @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) @wizfan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=94) @Mantra (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925)

it was, i think, made by Chris Vrenna, hence the nin similarity.

It's like the last thing i need for this new song, and the help would be much appreciated.

Saturation and distortion that will let you adjust band resonance till you get the harmonics to freak out. Cut almost all the lows, then high pass slow filter sweep around the point where the resonant distortion madness is happening. Adjust to taste.

[elevenism]

Saturation and distortion that will let you adjust band resonance till you get the harmonics to freak out. Cut almost all the lows, then high pass slow filter sweep around the point where the resonant distortion madness is happening. Adjust to taste.
i am a singer/songwriter who adds electronic beats and bass and synths, so i understood about half of that, lol.

This may be a stupid question, but what should the original sound be?

[Jinsai]

i am a singer/songwriter who adds electronic beats and bass and synths, so i understood about half of that, lol.

This may be a stupid question, but what should the original sound be?

Almost anything that hits the full bandwidth... You're gonna have to cut all the lows completely, everything below 200 or so hz. That's what you'll do with most non-sub-bass frequencies anyway as a rule, but not usually so low if you want to maintain the lower character of the sound. But here, this is clearly a mid-high range swell you're talking about. Then distort the sound around the range where the frequency cut sweep will end. This makes the upper harmonics sizzle as you sweep the cutoff.

What DAW are you using? I could make the sound for you and you could do an "autopsy."

[elevenism]

Almost anything that hits the full bandwidth... You're gonna have to cut all the lows completely, everything below 200 or so hz. That's what you'll do with most non-sub-bass frequencies anyway as a rule, but not usually so low if you want to maintain the lower character of the sound. But here, this is clearly a mid-high range swell you're talking about. Then distort the sound around the range where the frequency cut sweep will end. This makes the upper harmonics sizzle as you sweep the cutoff.

What DAW are you using? I could make the sound for you and you could do an "autopsy."

i make most everything on my QY, remember? ;P
Then i record it with my Zoom and i put everything together just in audacity.

I have FL Studio 10 and i use it sometimes. I'm just so addicted to that little sequencer and i know how to use it, you know? I know how to get it to make sounds that it wasn't intended to make. I have that ipad with those hundreds of programs on it too, but i keep coming back to my QY.

You would be my hero if you would make such a sound for me. I've actually been looking for a place from which to sample it and then change it, but the sound is never by itself in any song that i come across.

[Jinsai]

Ok I'll make some variations on that "sort of sound" np

im not really sure what that kind of sound is called

[elevenism]

Ok I'll make some variations on that "sort of sound" np

im not really sure what that kind of sound is called
Thanks man!

[Microwave Jellyfish]

i am a singer/songwriter who adds electronic beats and bass and synths, so i understood about half of that, lol.

This may be a stupid question, but what should the original sound be?
Nothing to back it up, but I always thought those Reptile squeaks along with "the" riff were inspired by (maybe even sampled from) the "camera flash" noise from the opening scene of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (starting at 1:14 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBoRZaCTPA). You guys could try playing around with that.

[elevenism]

Nothing to back it up, but I always thought those Reptile squeaks along with "the" riff were inspired by (maybe even sampled from) the "camera flash" noise from the opening scene of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (starting at 1:14 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBoRZaCTPA). You guys could try playing around with that.
well i'll be goddamned.

[Jinsai]

ok... so what are the black friday deals?

So far,

iZotope Trash 2: $29
Waves: tons of discounts... platinum bundle is only 500 (with 50 dollars off additional)
Eventide: lots of stuff on discount... including purchase plans that would make the Anthology X bundle super cheap
Sound Toys: 50% off
Native Instruments: 50% off on a lot of stuff (no Komplete upgrade though...)
Sugar Bytes: everything is 70 bucks right now

Most of this (and a bunch more) listed over on pluginboutique

[wizfan]

So, let's talk surround sound... inside your head!

I've been toying around with Noise Makers Binauralizer (http://www.noisemakers.fr/binauralizer/). They have some awesome Vimeo previews on their site for all their plugins. Binauralizer can create binaural stereo out of surround mixes and vice versa. I used it to fold some NIN 5.1 mixes down to binaural stereo. It does get a little muddy in the high end (can be fixed with some EQ'ing), but as far as creating a surround soundstage in your head goes, it's pretty damn accurate, and much better than Dolby Headphone and all those cheap "3D virtual headphone surround" bullshit. I have uploaded some excerpts of Closer, The Becoming, In Motion and A Minute to Breathe so you can hear for yourselves. I used different Gain settings on each one to avoid clipping, but left all other settings to Default. You can use any kind of headphones or earbuds with these (haven't tried them on speakers):

(https://www.sendspace.com/file/j4pyob)Reznor Binauralized (https://www.sendspace.com/file/j4pyob)

Another pretty damn good upmix/downmix plugin is Waves' DTS Neural (http://www.waves.com/bundles/dts-neural-surround-collection). I don't think it does binaural, but it has the incredible ability to fold down surround mixes and then unfold them with great accuracy. (http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2016/5/19/review-waves-dts-neural-surround-collection)

[Substance242]

I always wanted Korg Wavestation, preferably A/D, browsing eBay from time to time... and now I finally have one. For USD 20 from iTunes. :-) I find myself just sustaining the sequences with some super simple tones on top of it and smiling like stupid, perfect. :-D Works also inside Korg Gadget. I just think I'll have to buy Korg plugKEY finally, and using my Microsampler as keyboard (can be battery powered too, so portable studio).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXIPwYw2LE

This iPad thingy is kinda cool, ya know man. I was "hardware all the way" for a (too) long time, but it would be stupid to miss things like this.

[Substance242]

Really good, motivating video about how not to be like me, how to actually RECORD something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Okfw17N2M
From: http://therecordingrevolution.com/make-music-3-mindset-shifts/

[liquidcalm]

Last year I did a music challenge, and that really cleared the cobwebs from my brain, made me a better musician. Being held accountable (by a ticking timer) each week eventually lead to the best year I have ever had creatively. But I DID hate it, it was hard, it sucked, some of the music sucks, but I'm still now just decompressing and reviewing things and it was great. Some peeps are running a new challenge here : https://streak.club/s/831/weekly-music-2017
I'm not gonna do it again (this year at least, my partner would probably kill me) but it basically taught me everything in the video above and I'm not gonna let everything I learnt slide back into apathy like I did for years..

[Jinsai]

holy shit... Scheps 73, where have you been all my life?!

[Leviathant]

holy shit... Scheps 73, where have you been all my life?!

I remember seeing the video announcement for Scheps 73 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ8wxbytSsw), and it definitely impressed me. Interesting to see it pop up on my radar again :)

[Jinsai]

I remember seeing the video announcement for Scheps 73 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ8wxbytSsw), and it definitely impressed me. Interesting to see it pop up on my radar again :)

I bought it on a lark while it was on sale... And kinda forgot about it (my Waves folder is bloated as hell with stuff I will probably never get around to using). After five minutes with this plugin, I can't imagine working without it.

Though a friend of mine just recommended I also check out the Slate Digital version of the 1073, which I guess I have because I just subscribed to their "Everything Bundle," which is a pretty good deal at 15 dollars a month. I used to hate the idea of subscription services, but the value in this one is insane.

But I stand fully impressed by the Scheps emulation. Most Waves stuff I'd say is overpriced, and really only worth picking up when it's on sale. This thing is worth every penny.

[Jinsai]

this is a random shot in the dark, but does anyone have any plugin recommendations for removing (what sounds like) overly gain staged and clipping audio? I've tried Z-Noise by waves and ERA-N, neither of which are doing the job at all.

I suppose the obvious go-to would be iZotope Rx, but since I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just to fix this one screw-up...

[Leviathant]

I suppose the obvious go-to would be iZotope Rx, but since I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just to fix this one screw-up...

Rx is such black magic though. Some schlub drops their pencil during a quiet piano recital? Gone! Recording a choral piece and a truck backs up next to your building? Erase those beeps!

[Jinsai]

yeah... maybe the demo version will hold me through the mix down process, and if it comes in clutch enough, it'll be worth a purchase at a later date

EDIT: actually, I guess the "plugin bundle" version of Rx isn't too bad price-wise... hopefully that will cover the bases...

[polski]

I have a question for all y'all DAW heads in here: What is literally the lowest bitrate/bandwidth/codec/setting you can render a playable audio file? It doesn't have to be playable in iTunes or a media player per se. Just at the least within DAW and have the smallest file size possible.

As an experiment I want to compose something specifically to sound decent or recognizable as music within the lowest settings possible.

So far in Reaper it seems like OGG Opus in mono at 6kbps/8khz. Sounds gnarly but the experiment is to see the ways limitation would change how I compose, as well as making some sort of artistic observation about audiophile/high res blah blah. Any thoughts?

[Leviathant]

Bitcrushers will get you to as low a bitrate as you like.
There's probably some kind of EQ with the hardest of knees that will let you set the frequency ceiling to whatever you choose.

You can emulate one of the effects of bitcrushing, kind of, by doing a dramatic reduction of volume (via processing, not through dynamic effects like volume envelopes), and then normalize the resulting waveform. I used to do that shit in Sound Forge back before plugins were a thing.

[polski]

Oh right, duh. I was thinking in render only, but I can bit crush it all too. Thanks.

[benoïde]

So, let's talk surround sound... inside your head! (...)
Hey, nice to see someone else interested into this sort of thing! I'm a sound engineer (mostly classical music recording but also VR post and other stuff). The Noisemakers stuff is good, I used it to do a binaural mix of a classical music competition recently (you can listen to a cello concerto here (https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_son-3d-queen-elisabeth-final-aurelien-pascal?id=2219345)).
Have you gone further with your experiments?

[wizfan]

Hey, nice to see someone else interested into this sort of thing! I'm a sound engineer (mostly classical music recording but also VR post and other stuff). The Noisemakers stuff is good, I used it to do a binaural mix of a classical music competition recently (you can listen to a cello concerto here (https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_son-3d-queen-elisabeth-final-aurelien-pascal?id=2219345)).
Have you gone further with your experiments?

Thank you! No, I haven't, yet, but I will... soon! Your cello concerto binaural mix sounds pretty good! I want to learn more about this technology, let's talk! (we can chat about it via PM's if other people are not interested about it in this thread.)

[wizfan]

I helped create the latest @ianshepherd (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3759) video about the loudness war. He even called my mix "conservative", like @botley (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) would!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Yfl6KGRk8

[botley]

Haha well done sir! Even on my Asus SonicMaster laptop speakers I heard the difference :)

[polski]

teaching myself renoise. little help from plogue chipsounds polski.bandcamp.com (http://polski.bandcamp.com)

[acrid avid jam shred]

Got Pro Tools on my laptop a while back, and it's really awesome. It's so much fun recording audio and MIDI stuff on it, and the amount of cool plug-ins you can get is staggering! Native Instruments had a Thanksgiving sale, so I managed to get Massive and Guitar Rig 5, which are fantastic. Also, I stumbled across the Izotope Iris 2 sampler, which Angus Andrew used extensively on the latest Liars record, so I had to check it out! There's so many options for unique sounds, I don't think I've even scratched the surface of it yet.

[Louie_Cypher]

got korg's gadget for the iPad really like it
-Louie

[neorev]

I've tried quite a few DAWs since I started dabbling in production in 1999, from Fruity Loops to Sony Acid to Cubase to Reason, but in 2011 I'm completely switched over to Ableton Live Suite and it's done wonders to my workflow and get ideas from my head down easier. I started sharing my music online back in 2003 and put out my first album in 2009 and been releasing stuff ever since on streaming services and in digital music stores. I use Izotope Ozone for mastering, NI Komplete Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Korg Legacy Collection, Illformed Glitch, some Sugar Bytes products, with hardware analog synths.

[Substance242]

Noticed this thanks to the REAPER blog channel, open source virtual modular! :-O
https://vcvrack.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tRj-UQh0ec
Haven't tested it myself yet because I am kinda worried to start going into this stuff, but who knows, maybe Mr. Cortini is having fun with one right now? :-)

[botley]

Hey, does anybody have experience using a non-Mac computer as a hub for MIDI control into an iPad? I have a USB keyboard that I'd like to use as the controller for an Audiobus-capable app, but ideally while continuing to work on my main Windows machine. Is there a DAW or piece of MIDI bridge software that will talk to Audiobus from a Windows 10-controlled USB hub? Or do I need to go borrow someone's Mac and use a DAW that talks to Core MIDI to rout the controller into Audiobus?

EDIT: Looks like I might be able to do it via the Bonjour wireless protocol for Windows and rtpMIDI networking, but is there a more reliable hard-connection method that doesn't go through the wireless antenna of the iPad?

Basically, I am just trying to quickly simulate the sound of playing a "real Mellotron"; I already have all the authentic tape sounds loaded into a janky old iPad Mini with a dodgy antenna that's running Mellotron XL. I ultimately want to mic both the key noise from a sticky Korg MicroKey and the sound coming out of the iPad's internal speaker to approximate some of the halting unsteadiness & tinny warble that playing a real Mellotron in a room actually sounds like. Arcane bit of business, but the tape sounds recorded from playing keys within the app itself are too clean, and I really want that vintage about-to-break feel for this project but without too much fussiness. I'll probably also be overdubbing more clunks/other operational noises and messing with the pitch, thus adding to the shittiness slightly without having to build it all from inside the box. Or buy an actual hardware Mellotron...

[Substance242]

Minimoog Model D for $4.99? Sure! :-) iOS app, sounds pretty good.
https://www.moogmusic.com/products/apps/minimoog-model-d-app

[Jinsai]

Hey, does anybody have experience using a non-Mac computer as a hub for MIDI control into an iPad?

I use iConnect 2x2 for integrating an iPad... pretty sure it works w/ PC.

[botley]

I use iConnect 2x2 for integrating an iPad... pretty sure it works w/ PC.
Thanks! Will give that a go next time (ended up just recording some jams straight out of the headphone jack into a DI, then just doing some severe EQ to make it suitably shitty).

[Substance242]

I'll put this here... YouTube Recording Revolution channel lead me to this:
https://www.youtube.com/user/songwritingacademy/videos
It feels like this dude knows what he's talking about, Re: song writing. For example I did not realize that if you start chorus on beat 1, maybe you should not start on beat 1 verses or anything else.

[ton]

Does anyone know where to get good drum samples? I'm not finding anything inspirational really in the default Logic drum packs.

Thanks in advance

[Jinsai]

Does anyone know where to get good drum samples? I'm not finding anything inspirational really in the default Logic drum packs.

Thanks in advance

That really depends... are you looking for free samples? What kind of music are you trying to make? Are you looking to buy some packs, and if so, what's your budget?

[ton]

That really depends... are you looking for free samples? What kind of music are you trying to make? Are you looking to buy some packs, and if so, what's your budget?

Thanks, I'm looking for free samples. I used to get the ones that came in the CDs from Computer Music Magazine. They were much higher quality than ones I usually find for free online. I'm broke now though.

The music I make is mostly rnb and hip hop based. I make some UK style breakbeat sometime for fun.

[Leviathant]

Probably over a decade ago, I downloaded a surprisingly decent set of acoustic drums from Dooley Drums - which apparently still exists, and has greatly expanded since then. Check out the options there.

[wizfan]

Noticed this thanks to the REAPER blog channel, open source virtual modular! :-O
https://vcvrack.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tRj-UQh0ec
Haven't tested it myself yet because I am kinda worried to start going into this stuff, but who knows, maybe Mr. Cortini is having fun with one right now? :-)

Keith Hillebrandt is a fan of VCV; he's in their Facebook group! I've tried VCV Rack myself and it's pretty cool, considering I don't know jack shit about modular synths. Gotta watch those YouTube tutorials sometime...

[Jinsai]

Thanks, I'm looking for free samples. I used to get the ones that came in the CDs from Computer Music Magazine. They were much higher quality than ones I usually find for free online. I'm broke now though.

The music I make is mostly rnb and hip hop based. I make some UK style breakbeat sometime for fun.

I highly recommend looking at some of the free sample banks from Goldbaby. They don't match up to the packs they sell, but they're all quality, and their banks they charge for are reasonable priced. Also, for hip hop kick drums (or kicks in general) I think everyone should check out the Punchbox from D16 software. It's not free, but you'll get so much mileage out of it, and craft your own kick banks, and you can use the free demo to create a ton of custom samples (with an easy-export button)

[wizfan]

I highly recommend looking at some of the free sample banks from Goldbaby. They don't match up to the packs they sell, but they're all quality, and their banks they charge for are reasonable priced. Also, for hip hop kick drums (or kicks in general) I think everyone should check out the Punchbox from D16 software. It's not free, but you'll get so much mileage out of it, and craft your own kick banks, and you can use the free demo to create a ton of custom samples (with an easy-export button)

Yeah, Goldbaby are cool as hell. They have free samples in rx2 as well; I love this format.

Thanks for letting us know about Punchbox, it seems intriguing! I'll consider buying it. Sonic Academy Kick 2 is great as well.

[ton]

Thanks Jinsai and wizfan. I'm gonna download some stuff from Goldbaby right now. Excited to try something new. Also will look at that Punchbox plug-in, I might be able to afford at least one instrument.

[wizfan]

Remember when I asked about samples from artists like NIN? Well, back in 1998, the band Skinny Puppy had collaborated with the company Time+Space to create the sample library "Skinned" (heh). It was available in CD format, but now you can buy it from Time+Space's website as a 472MB download for $30.

https://www.timespace.com/products/zero-g-skinned

[wizfan]

OMFG! Hurry, everyone! Jinsai neorev

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2018/09/06/izotope-ozone-8-elements/

[Jinsai]

OMFG! Hurry, everyone! @Jinsai (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) @neorev (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=584)

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2018/09/06/izotope-ozone-8-elements/

I saw this a few days ago and got distracted during the registration. Thank you for the reminder!

[neorev]

OMFG! Hurry, everyone! Jinsai neorev

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2018/09/06/izotope-ozone-8-elements/

Definitely an awesome deal. Already a proud owner. If you haven't tried Ozone, GET IT! I absolutely love Ozone. Started using them back in 2011 for my album Children Of The Bomb, this was Version 4 at the time. An amazing program.

[wizfan]

I absolutely love Ozone.

I like Ozone a lot, especially its Imager. My fave iZotope plugin is RX, by far. I mean, its noise reduction is... holy shit.

[wizfan]

Just got SONiVOX Premier Collection for a very low price at Plugin Boutique (https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/2718-Premier-Collection-Upgrade): $61.05 (original price: $226.5). It requires the purchase of another SONiVOX product; I had to buy one of their single instruments for $4 to become eligible for Premier. I know I'm sounding like an ad-bot, but... this bundle includes TimewARP 2600, which emulates the ARP 2600 synth that Flood played on NIN's The Becoming. Even Robert friggin' Rich says that the plugin is incredibly accurate.

One by one, all of NIN's tools eventually become OUR tools. How long until we get the first official Kontakt libary of Trent's prestigious tambourine collection?

[Jinsai]

don't sleep

https://reverb.com/software/samples-and-loops/reverb/3514-reverb-drum-machines-the-complete-collection

[BRoswell]

don't sleep

https://reverb.com/software/samples-and-loops/reverb/3514-reverb-drum-machines-the-complete-collection

I already have enough drum machi...ah, what the hell, what's fifty more, right?

[Substance242]

Now this is seriously funny... drum machine (?) for iPad or Android, played with it last evening, instant Year Zero:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-tlaZhCEc

Plus, author's homepage is "warmplace" https://warmplace.ru/soft/fbits/, so you know what it means. :-)

[Soma]

My old M-Audio interface seems to be on its last leg, so I'm thinking that it is time to upgrade!
Looking at the recent Steinberg UR-RT2/UR-RT4. It’s a little above the price range I was hoping for, but those Neve transformers are appealing..
Anyone have experience with this interface, or have any recommendations for others?

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/ur_rt_series/ur_rt4.html

EDIT: Also considering the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4, Roland Rubix44 or PreSonus 68

[Leviathant]

@Soma (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1132) , my wife's got a Rubix24 and it was a solid choice.

[Jinsai]

Free new extreme verb/delay plugin from Valhalla. Couldn't be easier to download and install.

https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-supermassive/?fbclid=IwAR15bggB4SpHzQOuW6Q8fKkRqE2k1GLZakkDy9YE LxHAZLqUzIfUlv-Em50

[Soma]

I ended up ordering the Rubix44, and so far I am really enjoying it! The built-in compressors + limiters are a nice feature, very handy for preventing clipping in otherwise good takes.
Now I'm developing gear acquisition syndrome for microphones. Recently ordered a MXL 770 condenser and a Sennheiser e602-II bass drum mic, finally getting some decent drum sounds. Now I'm playing around with where to put my old Shure 516eq on the snare.
Eventually I'll probably pick up another condenser or a SM57 to utilize the Channel 4 input, but this current set-up seems to be a good start. Looking forward to breaking my dependency on programmed drums!

[Substance242]

"New App Lets You Hide Hidden Messages In Your Music"
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2020/07/22/new-app-lets-you-hide-hidden-messages-in-your-music/

:-)

Anyway, in the meantime, I gave up and got cheapest subscription of Roland ZENOLOGY, and it's worth it, tons of good sounds (VST).
https://www.roland.com/sk/products/rc_zenology/

[wizfan]

Slowly dipping my toes into the wonderful waters of Pure Data (mostly using Camomile and PDVST). If you thought VCV Rack, Max for Live and Reaktor were huge, Pure Data will blow you away. Also, since I'm becoming more and more familiar with Reaper, I really need to learn how to code some JSFX. By the way, anyone familiar with Iannix? IIRC, I used LoopMIDI to send MIDI data from Iannix to Ableton. Yes, I could actually draw vector curves that were translated to MIDI messages. If that isn't IDM, I don't know what is.

[wizfan]

Guess what? I worked on a drum VST! And you can get it for free (name your price)!

https://www.organicdrumloops.com/ogdl-plugins/ock-vst/

[Jinsai]

that's reason number a billion why "FUCK Pro Tools, there's a billion other reasons to use ANYTHING else, and the only reason you need to be proficient in it is if you're working in a studio"

I fucking HATE Pro Tools with an unreal passion. I know how to use it, I need to (unfortunately). But EVERYTHING about it is garbage compared to other options. Did you know that the first #1 platinum selling single recorded exclusively w/ Pro Tools was Living La Vida Loca? BTW, there's freeware out there now that blows away all the options used to make that shitty song.

Fuck Pro Tools.

[eversonpoe]

that's reason number a billion why "FUCK Pro Tools, there's a billion other reasons to use ANYTHING else, and the only reason you need to be proficient in it is if you're working in a studio"

I fucking HATE Pro Tools with an unreal passion. I know how to use it, I need to (unfortunately). But EVERYTHING about it is garbage compared to other options. Did you know that the first #1 platinum selling single recorded exclusively w/ Pro Tools was Living La Vida Loca? BTW, there's freeware out there now that blows away all the options used to make that shitty song.

Fuck Pro Tools.

yeah, i'm glad i decided to move away from it this year. i think at this point i won't ever have to try to use it again.

ready for the story of how it went the other day?

my mom brought my desktop computer over on wednesday, and i got it started up, pro tools opened fine, my old extrernal hard drive (firewire 800) mounted fine...but it wasn't showing me directories. so like, it was there, but when i opened it in the finder, it was acting like it had no contents but was trying to load them. so i shut down the computer, tried connecting it with a firewire to thunderbolt adapter in between (which is how i usually connect it because the firewire port on the computer is normally connected to the audio interface) but it wouldn't mount. so i tried going back to just firewire...and it would power briefly and then stop. tried the USB option (it has a usb 2.0 connection but i had literally never used it) and it did the same thing. tried to connect it via various adapters to my newer laptop (which it had worked on before) but it did the same thing. hard drive is dead.
unfortunately, my newer external is usb 3.0, and my desktop doesn't have any 3.0 ports, so it won't even recognize the drive as a thing.


so after some crying and a near panic attack and a lot of sweating, i managed to transfer from my newer hard drive (i had all the stuff on there already), through my laptop, through the network, to the desktop of my desktop, and then i was able to open the PT sessions, export the files, and transfer them back over the network.


jesus. fucking. christ.

also, ordered TWO new hard drives so i can now have my main drive for traveling between home and my parents' (where i record), and two for redundant backup.
my main drive is named K-2SO and my new ones are IG-11 and D-0 (i always name my external drives after robots, the one that died the other day is Clank).

[artdeco]

Actually shelled out 400 bucks for the Arturia V collection. I always wanted VSTs for the ARP2600, Emu 2 (new!), CS-80, Jupiter 8, Juno, DX7, etc. It's fantastic. Having so much fun with them. Normally I get buyer's remorse with this kind of stuff, but I feel like it's a great deal. Running them through Reason (longtime fan; actually love the interface).