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GulDukat
10-26-2017, 11:04 AM
Today is the day all those classified documents are released.

You think we will learn anything?

allegro
10-26-2017, 11:39 AM
The Chicago mid-morning news today is saying Trump is still reviewing intel as to whether or not the info (that would be released) could compromise national security, so not sure if it will happen.

I guess the big info is something about Oswald meeting with Cuba and Russia in Mexico. There’s always been suspicion about Russian involvement related to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Louie_Cypher
10-26-2017, 01:40 PM
i don't think there'll will anything new if there was anything was long since been scrubbed just like 9/11 regular folks will never know what really happened. but i guess. it sells books so there's that
-louie

marodi
10-26-2017, 02:26 PM
I don't think we will learn anything new. My cynical self is thinking that this is a big LOOK HERE LOOK HERE NEW JFK STUFF thing to distract everyone from all that is wrong in Trumpland.

I'm going to buy the 1,700 pages Vincent Bugliosi's brick about the assassination that I've been eyeing for a couple of years now and that'll be that.

GulDukat
10-26-2017, 04:37 PM
Where the heck are the files already?

richardp
10-26-2017, 04:44 PM
You know that asshole is fucking waiting to release them at like 7pm prime-time or some shit.

Louie_Cypher
10-26-2017, 05:56 PM
nothing to see here squirrel
-Louie

theimage13
10-26-2017, 06:07 PM
I don't think we will learn anything new. My cynical self is thinking that this is a big LOOK HERE LOOK HERE NEW JFK STUFF thing to distract everyone from all that is wrong in Trumpland.

This deadline was set 25 years ago. Cynical as I am, I don't think this particular move is a typical Trumpian distraction tactic.

ton
10-27-2017, 12:37 AM
Nah, they're not gonna tell us shit anyway.

Deepvoid
10-27-2017, 07:09 AM
So basically this was just another fiasco for Trump. They are keeping a significant amount of documents under wrap.

allegro
10-27-2017, 09:50 AM
So basically this was just another fiasco for Trump. They are keeping a significant amount of documents under wrap.

Trump has delayed it for six months while he’s having security people review it then will decide. It’s apparent that he thinks like a citizen then suddenly remembers (most likely after getting intel and warnings from advisors), “oh wait that’s right, I’m PRESIDENT hahahahahaaa never mind.”

In this case, the intel most likely relates to RUSSIA ...

theimage13
10-27-2017, 10:39 AM
Trump has delayed it for six months while he’s having security people review it then will decide. It’s apparent that he thinks like a citizen then suddenly remembers (most likely after getting intel and warnings from advisors), “oh wait that’s right, I’m PRESIDENT hahahahahaaa never mind.”

In this case, the intel most likely relates to RUSSIA ...

I'm amazed he remembered in time. Although it sounds like he had the higher ups of several security agencies screaming in his ear that there was stuff they might want to block out, so it's not like he remembered so much as he was struck about the head repeatedly with this information.

Volband
10-30-2017, 06:09 AM
It is amazing how you try to put this on that loony as well, haha. You are just a few steps from "I think Trump might've killed JFK, actually".

No president would reveal everything that would cause a drama about this again, so this "probably Russia" thing is pretty funny. First of all, it's a complete shot in the dark and just riding the "do you hate Trump too? XDDD" train, and it's not like - if it was true - some other president would just drop this shit on Russia to create world craze and bad relations. If the people who were aware of the content of those documents for decades did not do jackshit about it, then there is no reason to reveal them to the public.

GulDukat
10-31-2017, 06:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaF0LSwzFog

mfte
10-31-2017, 08:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaF0LSwzFog

There was nothing in Al Capone's vault... but it wasn't Geraldo's fault

allegro
10-31-2017, 09:33 AM
It is amazing how you try to put this on that loony as well, haha. You are just a few steps from "I think Trump might've killed JFK, actually".

No president would reveal everything that would cause a drama about this again, so this "probably Russia" thing is pretty funny. First of all, it's a complete shot in the dark and just riding the "do you hate Trump too? XDDD" train, and it's not like - if it was true - some other president would just drop this shit on Russia to create world craze and bad relations. If the people who were aware of the content of those documents for decades did not do jackshit about it, then there is no reason to reveal them to the public.

I said “probably Russia” as a sarcastic joke but it could actually contain sensitive materials relative to Russia. We were still in the Cold War with Russia in 1963, and President Kennedy didn’t make any Russian or Cuban friends after Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Kennedy was also behind the Vietnam coup in 1963: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/south-vietnamese-generals-plan-coup

He supposedly said he just wanted Diem out of power, he didn’t know they were going to KILL him.

And there was all that Kennedy and mob and labor union affiliation talk back then.

So conspiracy theorists in the U.S. have thought that Oswald killed JFK with Russia’s help,or the Mob killed him, or it was revenge for something else JFK did. So the more the papers are secret, the more the conspiracy theorists go nuts.

Louie_Cypher
10-31-2017, 09:44 AM
everyone knows Hillary did it
-Louie

botley
10-31-2017, 10:06 AM
everyone knows Hillary did it
-Louie
RIP JFK killed by emails

thevoid99
10-31-2017, 04:48 PM
There was nothing in Al Capone's vault... but it wasn't Geraldo's fault

True but it did make an ass out of Geraldo who continuously does so in the world of journalism.

elevenism
11-05-2017, 11:11 PM
There was actually some pretty interesting stuff in there, like the part about the cia's journalist assets and the attempts to assassinate Castro.

elevenism
11-05-2017, 11:25 PM
Living in Dallas without a car, i walked through dealy plaza countless times and had a bus transfer right near the book depository damn near every day for years and years. Campisi's, a restaurant frequented by Ruby and mafiosos, and the Texas theater where they caught oswald were also both places that I walked past constantly. It kept the assassination always fresh in my mind when I lived there. There's actually a fucking 'X' on the street right where JFK was shot; i always consider it to be in bad taste. Experiencing all these historical places, regularly, on foot, was pretty cool. Also, I interviewed an eyewitness to the assassination for my college newspaper. He is visible in the zapruder sequence and convinced me that Oswald was the only shooter.
BUT, I'm not so sure he was the only person INVOLVED. Perhaps we may get SOMETHING out of reading "between the lines" of these documents. At the very least, we now know that we've been asking a lot of the right QUESTIONS. Also, the very fact that Intel agencies asked for more time is damning in and of itself.

But I have a question: why hasn't the CIA already shredded these documents?

implanted_microchip
11-06-2017, 01:13 AM
Last I heard he was hit in the nuts by an asteroid and died

http://www.clickhole.com/article/piece-history-asteroid-hit-jfk-nuts-so-hard-he-die-6306

botley
11-16-2017, 12:10 AM
BACK... and to the LEFT

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2ilTgdzz3Y8/UIMrtQPYMsI/AAAAAAAAIs4/_EbaCFi91zw/s1600/magicloogie.jpg

Sutekh
11-22-2017, 10:52 AM
The guy fired a rifle from a window... in what way could the USSR have assisted him to that end

He was just a fantasist who craved importance, I still struggle to see it any other way.

It does seem a bit strange that jfks detail would allow someone with a long package into a building, but remember this is the government that can't even burgle a hotel

allegro
11-22-2017, 11:56 AM
government that can't even burgle a hotel

Office building. The DNC office that the plumbers broke into was in the office building in the Watergate Complex.

Most Americans don’t think these secret documents contain any revelations related to JFK’s death, but we DO think that the documents (reports in the investigation) include shit we ain’t supposed to see related to all kinds of OTHER stuff.

He was killed in 1963, and the building was not a government building, it was leased by a private school book distribution company and the top floors were unused and a mess and under renovation. Construction people were coming and going all the time.

Sutekh
11-22-2017, 12:12 PM
Sorry, did I say it was a government building or not in 1963?

I think it would be more about protecting sources than obscuring secret narratives. If there's a deeper connection between an involved party and the USSR... why on earth would cold war America want to cover that up? Surely any chance to portray the reds as malign puppet masters would be seized

allegro
11-22-2017, 12:22 PM
Sorry, did I say it was a government building or not in 1963?

I think it would be more about protecting sources than obscuring secret narratives. If there's a deeper connection between an involved party and the USSR... why on earth would cold war America want to cover that up? Surely any chance to portray the reds as malign puppet masters would be seized

You wondered about security at the book depository; there was no reason to have it back then. No reason to question the activity.

I think if we had some covert operations in the Kremlin or Cuba and the FBI investigation touched on players in something top secret, and nobody expected that these documents would ever be released to the public, there could be some things the Government still doesn’t want us to know. Yes, protecting sources AND protecting covert operations and operatives.

Like, maybe something to do with this shit: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-13066561

Sutekh
11-22-2017, 12:27 PM
Ah come on, about a year after the most dangerous phase of the cold war, civil rights grievances from both sides bubbling over... No reason for tight security? Disagree. I just think they clowned it up that day

Agreed on the second part though, have to bear in mind that actors and methods in employ back then could still be active now

allegro
11-22-2017, 12:30 PM
Ah come on, about a year after the most dangerous phase of the cold war, civil rights grievances from both sides bubbling over... No reason for tight security? Disagree. I just think they clowned it up that day

Agreed on the second part though, have to bear in mind that actors and methods in employ back then could still be active now
It was 1963, nobody had been picked off, yet. Sure, lots of Texans HATED JFK, but - really - there was NO reason to suspect an Assassination. He was in a CONVERTIBLE car. Hindsight is 20/20 but not always correct.

Second part, yes, is not only possible but likely.

Sutekh
11-22-2017, 12:34 PM
I'm really sorry, I'm not spoiling for a fight here but there had been assassinations, attempts and executions carried out by both sides by this point in the cold war... various plots against Castro, the Rosenbergs etc

Although in terms of IR discourse you can make a good case for head of state assassinations between the two powers being mutually agreed as off-limits - the USSR immediately cabled Washington to deny involvement, and afaik were taken at their word

allegro
11-22-2017, 01:04 PM
I'm really sorry, I'm not spoiling for a fight here but there had been assassinations, attempts and executions carried out by both sides by this point in the cold war... various plots against Castro, the Rosenbergs etc

So there is a conspiracy related to no security? (There was, literally, very very little security. But there hadn't been much up until that point, nobody had tried to shoot the President in a 100 years.)

Pretty much NOBODY back then (American citizens, I mean) thought "OMG he should have been in an armored bulletproof car with FBI snipers in every window downtown." That's like my Mom being pissed at Air Traffic Controllers for not "doing something" to stop the terrorist hijackers on Sept 11, even though nobody had ever flown a jumbo jet into a skyscraper, using it as a giant flying bomb full of jet fuel. We learn from our mistakes, hopefully.

The friggin POPE was shot and now has to ride around in the bulletproof Popemobile. But he didn't for many many years.

JFK was warned not to go to San Antonio, but he received these warnings all the time. There were far more American nuts wanting to kill JFK than Russians or Cubans. Lincoln received the same warnings and had the same risks, but the "luck of the draw" (um, no pun intended) is what it is, and that day his luck ran out.

This is interesting, though: http://www.history.com/news/jfk-assassination-documents-declassified-release <--- warning, there is a graphic photo of the car seat where JFK was killed, ugh

If the Mexican CIA operatives knew of the possibility that Oswald was out to kill Kennedy, the risk existed in every city in America, and what JFK's team should have done was keep him at home if they couldn't keep tabs on Oswald. Unless the Mexican operatives didn't even bother telling the D.C. CIA team. It's more than just a matter of putting security in every building on the parade route; it's putting the President in a friggin' convertible, etc. The whole thing smells like a deliberate operation, which is why we have so many conspiracy theories of the CIA using Oswald -- a person allegedly known by intelligence people as wanting to kill Kennedy -- and putting Oswald in the pawn position to get what they wanted. Allegedly. Also, Oswald insisted - even on national television - that he DID NOT shoot JFK. Then, he never got a trial.

dun dun DUN ...

Sutekh
11-22-2017, 01:08 PM
No, no conspiracy (as I said, I think Oswald acted alone), like I said I just think they clowned it up. It was possibly the 2nd worst period of tension in global history, and you've got an open top car driving slowly past uncombed buildings. Hindsight is 20/20, but that's incredible

To draw a 9/11 comparison, it's more akin to the security apparatus ignoring o'neill/alec stations warnings in the run up to 9/11. Staggering, but more a sign of incompetence than conspiracy

allegro
11-22-2017, 01:22 PM
Oh, well, yes, incompetency, we have always had (and still have) plenty of that!! I think it's also a matter of arrogance, really. And naïveté.

artdeco
11-29-2017, 03:53 AM
It's more than just a matter of putting security in every building on the parade route; it's putting the President in a friggin' convertible, etc..

Kennedy frequently rode with the drop top down, and in fact insisted on it himself when the Secret Service encouraged him not to. He often did this when the weather was clear and didn't even want the secret service on the car's stepping panels next to him because he thought they got in the way between him and the crowds.

allegro
11-29-2017, 05:32 AM
I think, today, that the secret service would override a President’s desire to do that, but they’re now equipped with 20/20 hindsight.

But knowing JFK did that sure made it easier to kill him?

theimage13
11-29-2017, 05:53 AM
I think, today, that the secret service would override a President’s desire to do that, but they’re now equipped with 20/20 hindsight.

But knowing JFK did that sure made it easier to kill him?

I just don't get how that sort of thing is even an issue of hindsight. I mean, three others had already been killed. You're already in a scenario where nearly 1 in 10 presidents have been assassinated. The newspaper in Dallas had a "Wanted for Treason" advertisement taken out when he was visiting. What were they thinking? "Hey, maybe fire won't be hot if we touch it this time?"

I just can't grasp how anyone in a position of authority went "nah it's cool, ride around in a convertible in a route that we can't secure". Not just in Dallas, mind you. Anywhere.

Bad Witch
05-13-2018, 11:13 AM
Being a coast whore I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSgHZNCOfEc interesting. I still think our own government did it though

Bad Witch
05-13-2018, 11:16 AM
I just don't get how that sort of thing is even an issue of hindsight. I mean, three others had already been killed. You're already in a scenario where nearly 1 in 10 presidents have been assassinated. The newspaper in Dallas had a "Wanted for Treason" advertisement taken out when he was visiting. What were they thinking? "Hey, maybe fire won't be hot if we touch it this time?"

I just can't grasp how anyone in a position of authority went "nah it's cool, ride around in a convertible in a route that we can't secure". Not just in Dallas, mind you. Anywhere.

What were they thinking? The right hated Jack in the south because Johnson was their guy. Still the hate Jack was getting was nothing compared to Obama and Now the left on Trump(Russia narrative is covering for hillary's crimes)

theimage13
05-13-2018, 02:43 PM
(Russia narrative is covering for hillary's crimes)

Calling sweeterthan: can we move this to the "conspiracy theories" thread where it was clearly intended to be posted?

Bad Witch
05-13-2018, 03:42 PM
Calling @sweeterthan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=50): can we move this to the "conspiracy theories" thread where it was clearly intended to be posted?


Haha. The mainstream media is one big huge conspiracy theory nowadays. Its strange watching it. Almost as if we are watching shadows on a cave wall. But yes, the mainstream corporate media is definitely telling you the truth every single day. Yikes!

elevenism
05-13-2018, 03:47 PM
Haha. The mainstream media is one big huge conspiracy theory nowadays. Its strange watching it. Almost as if we are watching shadows on a cave wall. But yes, the mainstream corporate media is definitely telling you the truth every single day. Yikes!
Oh shit. Ha. Here we go.

elevenism
05-13-2018, 04:01 PM
Anyway, back on topic: did you guys need this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/26/trump-delays-release-of-some-jfk-files-until-2021-bowing-to-national-security-concerns/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ade492d6cb7b

Trump is blocking some of the JFK files from being released until 2021.
And they wonder why people question the official account.

The files MAY just prove, idk, something about spies who infiltrated russia. I guess it could be anything.

But this sure does have the gears in my head turning

theimage13
05-13-2018, 04:23 PM
Anyway, back on topic: did you guys need this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/26/trump-delays-release-of-some-jfk-files-until-2021-bowing-to-national-security-concerns/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ade492d6cb7b

Trump is blocking some of the JFK files from being released until 2021.
And they wonder why people question the official account.

The files MAY just prove, idk, something about spies who infiltrated russia. I guess it could be anything.

But this sure does have the gears in my head turning

I always wonder about things like this. Like...it happened over half a century ago. I'm under the impression - and correct me if I'm wrong - that the US Government classifies documents to various levels depending on whether their exposure could hurt the nation's interests. Unless there's a big ass lie that is being covered up, what could they possibly still be keeping as classified? I can't imagine there's any sort of security protocols, agent names, technology, etc, that wouldn't be safe to declassify by now. So what's the holdup?

It just seems like...if there's not something interesting, then what are they waiting for? And if it is something interesting....what is it?

elevenism
05-13-2018, 05:39 PM
I always wonder about things like this. Like...it happened over half a century ago. I'm under the impression - and correct me if I'm wrong - that the US Government classifies documents to various levels depending on whether their exposure could hurt the nation's interests. Unless there's a big ass lie that is being covered up, what could they possibly still be keeping as classified? I can't imagine there's any sort of security protocols, agent names, technology, etc, that wouldn't be safe to declassify by now. So what's the holdup?

It just seems like...if there's not something interesting, then what are they waiting for? And if it is something interesting....what is it?right, i hear you.
There's the possibility that maybe it could expose something we did that would infuriate another country I guess?

But aside from that, man. What could it possibly be?
I bet they keep on refusing to release them.

Bad Witch
05-14-2018, 10:42 AM
Anyway, back on topic: did you guys need this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/26/trump-delays-release-of-some-jfk-files-until-2021-bowing-to-national-security-concerns/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ade492d6cb7b

Trump is blocking some of the JFK files from being released until 2021.
And they wonder why people question the official account.

The files MAY just prove, idk, something about spies who infiltrated russia. I guess it could be anything.

But this sure does have the gears in my head turning

Wrong. It was Trump who was trying to release them all and The agencies were blocking it. They want redactions

elevenism
05-14-2018, 05:06 PM
Wrong. It was Trump who was trying to release them all and The agencies were blocking it. They want redactionsright, but it was ultimately Trumps decision.

They had to convince him. And I figure they showed or told him something that made him agree.
https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-documents-release
Trump seems to do whatever he wants and he did want to release them, so now I REALLY want to know what convinced him. I'm that much more interested.

Bad Witch
05-14-2018, 06:20 PM
right, but it was ultimately Trumps decision.

They had to convince him. And I figure they showed or told him something that made him agree.
https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-documents-release
Trump seems to do whatever he wants and he did want to release them, so now I REALLY want to know what convinced him. I'm that much more interested.


Being that Trump is the first president elected since JFK and not some deep state clown I know he is under A LOT of pressure. He's got the right turning on him and he's got a fake russia narrative to deal with (assange is a russian agent now?) i truly believe Trump and Q want to release the info but I am also sure he wants to avoid being in the same type of info. Great president, doing a great job imo